Transcript

Well done. Welcome to this meeting of cabinet being held today, the 21st of May 2024. This meeting has been webcast with the exception of any business that the cabinet resolves to exclude the press and public because of the likely disclosure of exempt information as defined by the local government back to 1972. This meeting has been held as a hybrid meeting with cabinet members attending in person at the council chamber, county hall, roughing or remotely via video conference. With transparency purposes, I will ask the monitoring officer to identify which cabinet members are here in attendance and whether they are attending in person or remotely. The Officer Ed Waynev, members of cabinet who are attending in the chamber are the leader, Councillor Jason McClellan, Deputy Leader, Councillor Jill German, Councillor Gwyneth Ellis, Councillor Henry Swinn, Councillor Barry Miller and Councillor Julie Matthews. Also attending remotely is cabinet member Councillor Ellen Heaton. Additionally, in the chamber we have an observer, Councillor Brian Jones. And attending remotely as observers we have Councillor Pauline Edwards, Councillor Terry Mendes, Councillor John Harland and Councillor Hugh Irving. Also present in the chamber a number of officers here to support the meeting. Those attending remotely are kindly asked to mute their microphones unless they are called upon to speak. Cabinet members also asked to have their videos switched on throughout the meeting unless I specifically request you to turn your video off to improve the quality of your audio link when you are speaking. You will be expected to restart your video once you have finished speaking. Please also refrain from using the chat facility as messages sent to all visible on the webcast. Those present in the chamber are asked to make sure that they speak directly into the microphone to improve quality of the sound for those attending remotely. To a transparency, all of the meeting's business must be conducted through the chair deal. Apologies. We have got one apology from Councillor Chris Thomas who has a prior family engagement and Ellen, thank you, Ellen, you are joining on the screen. Hand over to Gary for the declarations of interest. Thank you Mr. Leader. Members will be aware of the requirements and the Council's code of conduct to declare any personal or judicial interest in respect of any business to be considered at today's meeting. Such interest should be declared now or as soon as the Council affected becomes aware that they have a personal or prejudicial interest in today's business. All members declaring an interest are required to state clearly what the interest is and to advise whether it is a personal interest or a personal and prejudicial interest as defined in the code of conduct. Any member declaring a prejudicial interest is required to leave the meeting for the discussion and can take no part in the proceedings. Members with a personal interest only mate at a debate and any vote. If a personal or prejudicial interest is declared today that does not previously be disclosed or recorded, the Council are concerned will be required to complete and sign a declaration of interest form which is either available from the committee's support staff in attendance today or online. Thank you Gary. There's anyone who is interested today. Nope, okay. We'll move on. One, two, three, urgent matters. I've not been informed of any urgent matters today. No, so we'll move on to the minutes of the last meeting of the 23rd of April. So we will go through those minutes. So in your back they appear at pages 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14. Any issues around the accuracy of the minutes? No. Someone proposed they are a true and accurate reflection proposed by Councillor Barry Mallet and seconded by Councillor Emmeris-Sweet, Emmeris-Wyn, Dilhammas and so the same pages for any matters arising. No, okay. So I think those minutes are passed as a true and accurate reflection of the meeting of the 23rd. The next agenda on the paper is the Sustainable Communities for Learning Calling that was dealt with at the Partnerships Committee and was not called in. So I think we can move on. Gary, can I hand over to you to clarify? Yes, thank you, Leader. Just to confirm that we received a notice of calling in respect of the decision made by Cabinet at your last meeting in respect of the Strategic Outline Program. That was heard by the Partnerships Group Committee on the 16th of May and the committee voted not to refer it back to Cabinet for consideration, so the decision can be implemented and was capable of being implemented from that date. Thank you. Okay, so we'll move on to what is the first substantial item on the agenda, and that's the draft local housing market assessment. As I've said earlier, Councillor Ries-Thomas has given apologies, so I'll lead on this. So can I invite Angela and Sue Lewis and Amlin to come up. So thank you. This is an important document. It examines the current and future housing needs and demands of the Council in the form to keep part of the evidence supporting policies relating to the LDP and our housing and homelessness strategy. The last version of the plan was produced in 2019. As I understand it, the methodology in relation to the plan has changed in the last couple of years. It's a strategy duty, we've got to do this. You'll see the, there's a report on the actual draft policy there itself for us to approve for submission. So I'll stop at that stage and hand over to the officers. I don't know who's taking the lead. Amlin? Yes. I'll just give a brief introduction. I'll hand over to Angela and Sue just to take us through the key findings. As you say, it's quite a prescribed process, you know, really detailed around how we go about undertaking a local housing market assessment. The findings and the key, well, the key findings and the outputs and the outcomes have been shared with the strategic planning group who can oversee the development of the local development plan, but also the Council's housing and homelessness corporate plan program board. So it's had a number of internal discussions already. And as you say, it's a key evidence base for us really to move forward with the local development plan and our various housing functions and services that we deliver for the next five years. So it's really important. I'd like to thank all the officers that have been involved really because it's been quite a challenging process to navigate our way through a changing environment really with the information that we had, but really, really good work. And I can hand over to Angela just to take us through the main findings. And I'm happy to respond to any questions. Do you like Amlin? Boradhar? The report presents the local housing market assessment. So basically, this is about current and future housing need and demand in the county. Lead has already mentioned the statutory requirement. We've got to submit it to Welsh Government. So the purpose of this report is seeking approval to submit to Welsh Government. It covers 15 years. We have to have a full review every five years. So you'll be seeing it again. And it needs to be refreshed between years two and three. So that's sort of a light touch refresh. The key point is as well, it's key evidence for the local development plan, housing and homelessness strategy, planning advice and many other areas of the council's work. It's database. So it doesn't set policy. It's just providing evidence to support policymaking moving forward. We have to use Welsh Government Toolkit and guidance. So the aim was to have a consistent approach across Wales. So there's a template provided as well. So the report fits into that template provided by Welsh Government. So basically, the model looks at waiting lists, current needs, waiting lists, incomes, house prices, together with supply and turnover. And it also looks at population projections to estimate future needs. Based on housing market areas, so we have 10 defined housing market areas in the county. And the model that we use generates detailed information on housing needs for each of those housing market areas. So you have that in the report. So appendix one to the report sets out the summary outputs. And appendix two is the draft local housing market assessment itself. Also important to mention that we've had significant engagement with stakeholders. So a lot of conversations and meetings have gone on. This includes RSL, developers, estate agents, tenants and residents association and others involved in housing issues. So it's been very wide ranging and a really useful exercising and gathering information. So in terms of the findings, just briefly, the majority of housing need is due to backlog of existing need and only a small part from population growth. So members will all be well aware we've got high levels of existing need. We've got a lot of people on the waiting lists, both SAF and TYTAG waiting lists. The majority of the need is some more social rented, so that's the traditional council and registered social and all properties. And the majority of need is for smaller one or two bed properties. And that's because one or two person households make up about 70% of Denver's population. We also do have a need for some larger properties as well. So I think it's fair to say the affordability issues across most housing 10 years and the lack of housing availability of key issues identified. So the housing system at the moment isn't really working properly. This is a lack of available properties, especially for rent, that's a particular issue. So basically in terms of the key outputs, there's a need for 400 affordable homes per year. That's for the first five years of the local housing market assessment. The premises that existing need should be met within the first five years. Whether or not that's achievable is a question. But that's the premise of the local housing market assessment model. And then we're looking at 153 affordable homes per year for the 15 years of the LHMA. So obviously a lot of works are going in terms of delivering affordable housing on development sites, also bringing empty properties back into use and various other ways of increasing the supply. So I think just the other thing to just raise is that the local housing market assessment doesn't set the affordable housing target for the replacement local development plan, but obviously it will inform the LDP in the context of deliverability. So that doesn't actually set the target, but it's part of that overall but evidence base that we need to use for the local development plan. So I think that's all I'll say now and obviously we're happy to to answer any questions. Okay. So are you coming in or just? No, no, that's fine. Okay. Okay. Thanks. Gwynette, did you want to come in? Thank you, leader. My question is about my question is about the need for additional housing over the next 15 years. I believe historically maybe the figures coming from Welsh government have been too high. These figures do seem quite high as well. And since these will influence the local development plan, how much confidence have we got that these figures with regards to the demand and need for homes in the future is correct. Thank you. I mean, this is a it's a complex model, as we've said. So it builds in an awful lot of data to come up with those figures. And interestingly, we are saying the principal projection, we've had to use a number of projections produce by Welsh government. So in all this data for four projections, so we've got principal projection, lower and higher population projections. And then we've got a denbership projection. So what we've said is at this stage, we should be using the principal projection because the LDP hasn't progressed through and been adopted. So but it's very comparable to the figure we have in the LDP. So the the total need and demand over 15 years using the principal projection comes out as 3,165 homes. The LDP requirement is for 3,275. So they're very comparable figures. Obviously, the LDP has to plant for more to allocate more land to meet that requirement. But yes, very comparable. So I'm comfortable that there is consistency there between between the two. And I think I'm certainly comfortable that this is a robust process. And the model is robust in terms of all the information that's gone into it. I just had to add that it's actually a draft. So it's actually got to be submitted to Welsh government. So it would be tested. And Welsh government have also seen some of the results and data and been involved along the process as well because it's been quite a training curve because it's really quite complicated tool to use. Thanks. Okay, happy to have people left here. Yeah, thanks. Julie, did you want to come in? Yes, please. Thank you. Lead it. A couple of things. I just want to if you can, if I may, there's in the suggested market mix, you've got 40% full one and two bedroom properties. And it goes on to say to allows for aspiration of a spare room or studies workplace. And there's no real appetite, apparently for this limited appetite for one bedroom, one bed market properties. And yeah, in this summary, it says for social vintage, you need 80 family. Is that in per year for one bedroom? Or would there be an aspiration in terms of planning applications that we're trying the mix? Although it says 40% overall, what, you know, I suppose my concern is it could be 30% one bedroom, 10% two bedroom, when the aspiration is for two bedroom properties to have that spare capacity. I'll let you answer that. Okay. Okay. I think there's a difference between aspiration and actual need. Very often when we talk about like council and housing association kind of properties, we're talking about what the actual need is that people that have rather than what they may be aspire to because what we tend to find that people on the tight egg list that want normally some kind of home ownership or intermediate rent, they generally want like a bedroom bigger just to give that a bit more flexibility. And we're just trying to try to give a bit of flex. We're trying to give people a bit of flexibility, especially given the kind of housing market at the moment, because there's not, it's very hard to move, isn't it between different 10 years and between different properties? There's a lack of availability. So it's just trying to make sure that we've got, but we realize that not everybody wants, you know, a one bedroom property and, you know, there's limited flexibility in terms of that. So it's just trying to build that in and there's just a difference between the need and what people aspire to. I mean, I aspire to a five bedroom house, but I don't actually need a five bedroom house. I'll be honest. One further question I wanted to ask as well about the 400 affordable homes a year for the next five years, because you did mention, I think people may be worried that you're looking at building 400 new homes per year, but obviously, you know, that possibly won't happen. So what are the ways will there be in terms of meeting that target, do you think the council will be undertaken? Thank you. Thank you. Yes, it's quite a high level of need, isn't it? And there are other ways it's not all new build. So for example, we, you know, we've been working on bringing empty homes back into use for affordable housing and particularly for meeting homelessness needs as well. So we've also the council have been buying back properties as well, buying in existing properties. So there's a whole mixture of different ways we can deliver. And the other point to raise is we've actually got a really good track record of delivering affordable housing. So we've been highest in North Wales for the last two years, which I think is, is fantastic, to be honest. So 2223 in terms, well, 2122, all the affordable housing delivered was 284 in the county, 2223, 146. This year, so that's 2324. So we've obviously looked back. The figure isn't finalized yet. So the figure I've got certainty about is 151, but it's not finalized and it will increase. So it will be higher than that. And it's likely the delivery 2425 is going to be higher than this year. So we get a good level of funding from Welsh government at the moment. So for 2425, we've got over £10 million allocated for the Denver share to provide affordable housing, which is absolutely excellent and slightly lower for the next two years, but only very slightly. So it'll be over £9 million for the next two years. So we also get, because we have a good track record for spending all the allocation, we often get awarded more towards the year end. So that's underspends from other local authorities. And that happened in 2324, we had an extra £800,000 awarded. So there's a lot of support for delivering affordable housing in the county. Thanks, Julie. That's good to hear. Thanks, Angela. I think you kind of answered my question already and a couple of questions I've got. Sorry, I'm assuming no one else has got the hand up, Emis. Can you go in first, Emis? Thank you, Chair. And thank you for your presentation also on this matter. Just a fairly simple question. We're talking about the need, which is more than I expected, to be honest. The demand for one bedroom rotation is fairly high figure. Is that in a particular area of temperature or is that demand across from the south right up to the coast? Say, Angela mentioned before that the 70% of households are one or two person. So that's one of the main reasons that there's such a demand for smaller properties. Also historically in Denvershire, I've always, in terms of the housing stock, had too many or more bedroom detached properties and not enough smaller flats or kind of terraced smaller properties as well. So there's demand across the county to be honest with you. There's probably more demand in the north of the county, but there is still cross across the whole lot. Apologies, I was just trying to find the correct table because there's quite a lot of them. The information is set out in the detailed tables within the local housing market assessments so that does break down the need by local housing market area and size. So in terms of where the needs are, it is spread across the county. The highest need for one and two bed is actually Rivland-Dizzer housing market area and there isn't immediate need in rail, rhythm, and Denby and Van Gotland. But I think that reflects the what is already there. So the housing mix that's already in those areas. So in terms of social rent, there are more smaller properties within those towns already. So obviously the model builds in turnover of existing properties, so it assumes a level of turnover. So it will assume that there will be a supply of those properties. Whereas the areas I've mentioned don't have those size properties or as many of those size properties. So although there is a need across the county, there is already a supply within those towns. I hope that that helps and that makes sense. Do you think you're on this? Gelt, did you want to come in? I just wanted to ask about in 1.2 of the report, there's quite a number of points but I'm looking at the bottom of page 28 where it mentions mortgage rescue at 0.10. It's quite a long section so it's just to ask really, obviously that's something that we're perhaps seeing more of because of the economic climate that we live in. We know that there were a lot of people who came and stuck when the mortgage rates rocketed like they did. So I wondered what that looked like, that prevention of loss of properties and what the picture is like out there with regards to people finding themselves in that position. I do have a second question as well. Thank you. Thank you. That mortgage rescue is something that's provided through registered social landlords and it is out to help support people who are in difficulty with their mortgages. You don't actually get many coming through the system but there is scope to provide that help so it's funded by Welsh Government funding. So that's one of the things mentioned in the affordable housing prospectus, one of the priorities within there and basically that prospectus sets the council's priorities in terms of where funding needs to be allocated moving forward, where social housing grants should be directed. Thank you. Thank you. So as far as the council's concern, we're not seeing a great influx of that. Presumably those are the mechanisms that people can go through as far as dealing with that. So that's interesting. The second question was about empty properties and I know it says that you work proactively with people, the saddest site really aren't they when we know that there's a real housing need out there and there's empty properties sat there. So again, a little bit more detail on the work that goes on and what some of the challenges are because I would imagine that if a property is standing empty, there's already reasons behind that and it may be that I would imagine it would be difficult sometimes to get people to move on that. But yeah, there is a sad sight on me. Yeah, certainly. Really challenging area. We've got an empty home delivery plan, just a five year document. It's now due for review and that was intended on capturing the various different actions, activities and work that we do in to try and tackle the issue. It does cross a number of services and we work really closely with the homeless service to try and identify properties that we can then use as accommodation and so on. But you know, legally quite challenging and complex scenarios, particularly we're seeing long standing empty properties for reasons that we all understand, but really difficult to try and get into them and take action where we can and so on. But you know, over the last, I'd say a year or two, we've been fortunate to have more resource in that area, a dedicated empty homes officer that's really taking proactive action to contact property owners question and challenge what action has been taken with those properties. But you're right, you know, it's if you look at an empty property in a community, it just sits there and you think it's such a shame that it can be brought back into use. But obviously it's a key part of our corporate plan. And you know, we've been performing quite well actually in bringing properties back into use. But I think the biggest challenge for us is those long standing entities that are blights on communities really and take an action where we can. I don't know whether there's anything else you'd like to add to that. Just to emphasise what Emlin has said, it can be extremely resource intensive, trying to bring some of these back into use. It can be owners are difficult to contact. I know we've got a case been dealing with where the owners are in America and it's really difficult to get decisions made. But there is a package that we can assist with. There's grants available. So there's finance available. So there's some carrots there. And there's also some sticks in terms of enforcement. And we're looking increasingly at enforcement on some properties. So yes, there's things we can do. But it's a difficult one to deal with. The other issue, I think, is it not is that for all the work that we do on trying to get empties back into use as a rolling problem, the figures of empties remain fairly consistent over time. So what we know it's kind of conveyable, isn't that we get some off the list, which is great. But of course, the figures don't necessarily reduce in terms of the number of empties because some more come on the list at the other end, don't they? So for all the work we've done, I think the number of empty properties over time has remained fairly consistent. And you're right. It has been really, and that's where we need to interrogate the data a bit more to kind of understand the ones that actually really, really difficult and remain there for years. They're not the ones that are on that cycle. They're actually just remaining empty for years. And why is that? And then taking a bit more proactive action on it. Actually, we've just been going around all the member area groups recently to provide a report and a potato and what we're doing on empty properties and actually asking local members for information around in your local areas. Have you got properties that you're aware of that we may not be aware of? And then we can make that contact and challenge and try and bring it back into use. But you're right, Graham, yeah, that's correct. Do you have a supplementary job? No, it's just to come back on that, really. And just say it's hard to imagine having an empty property in your ownership and just sit there to be in a position that that's even possible. And that's partly what we're dealing with, I suppose. But now I just wanted to make a comment on and just pay tribute to the offices for the holistic way this is looked at. As we've already said, this isn't just about building. It's about making best use of everything we've got, including bringing former council properties back into our portfolio. I know directly of a property where that's happened. And yeah, just to say well done, and that it is a really clear holistic program. And it's nice that it's done within Denvershire. I think having our team on it really makes a difference because we've got that one council approach, then, at our fingertips that we can call on all our expertise. And it's great to see. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Just one question on the figures. I think you might have answered already, Angela. So, to meet the needs, we need to build 400. It was the figure. In the papers, it says assuming the backlog of the existing need is met within, so it's 405 years, is met within five years. All housing builds are quakes around 250 homes a year. So, is that just to clarify, what we're on target for is 250 in the first five years, but we need to be aspiring to 400. Is that right? It's at page 69, or page 92 on the papers. Yeah. Thank you, yes, from the page now. So, apologies for that. As you say, it's a long and really good detailed report. So, yes, it's the way the model works as I explained is it assumes that that backlog is met within the first five years. The reality and deliverability of that, I suppose, is questionable. But, yes, that's right. What it says in that table is correct. Thanks, Angela. Enris, if I can go back again about the one-bedroom properties, and maybe the two-bedroom properties, are the figures that are here in the reports, do they include those properties in extra-care schemes such as Lisa Wellon and Our Lumenith. I assume that most of those are one or two-bedroom units. Yeah, most of them are in extra-care, one or two-bedroom, yeah. We'll be included in the out-turn anyway, because there will obviously be vacancies in the future in terms of properties. My experiences, there's a great deal of demand in my experience for the rooms in these extra-care schemes, because of the extra-care elements that's out of the... what's offered there? Yes, you're right. I mean, there certainly does seem to be a really good level of demand for those extra-care schemes, and they're fantastic, the ones I've looked at. I've got my name down. They are really good, aren't they? And they're a good option for a lot of people. It provides social interaction and support to meet their needs, so it might be that they need a small amount of support, or a bit more as they progress in life. So they seem to work really well, and they're very popular, as you rightly say, but also I suppose the other advantage to that is that potentially frees up other housing, doesn't it? So which is a real plus? I'll have this. Okay, some good discussion there. I can't see any hands up on the screen. Oh, Brian, do you want to take a seat and ask? Just a bit of clarity, 4.4 on the report. It makes reference to the LVP, and the question is, when will the draft deposit LVP be ready for the members to look at and to debate? Thank you, Brian. Yeah, I mean, the work continues through the strategic planning group. We're revisiting and revising the evidence base, undertaking the research and the revision of the policies to be ready for the new revised LDP. We are waiting for a key bit of guidance from most governments around the flood guidance, 10.15, so we've been waiting for that for quite a while, which has an impact on the delivery time scale, but we're in contact with most governments around that as other local authorities. So yeah, there are a few things that, of course, there's some delay, but work continues with, obviously, members through the SPG and other pieces of work, but I don't want anything to add to the talk. No, I think you've covered it. Just remind us, Emily, the strategic planning group, so how often does a bit of a plug for it? So how often does that meet? And although it's got a set membership, all members can attend, can't they? So any members have got any interest in the LDP? That's a really good place to attend. I encourage members to attend, and we have other members outside of the strategic planning group regularly attend. I think it meets, Angela, tell me if I'm wrong here, every two months, every month, every month, and we have membership from all the mags, including subs to attend in the absence of the rep and an invitation to all members to attend, and the notes of the meeting circulated to all members after the meeting as well. And I think we've set it up that way to be really inclusive for all members, because we don't want members to come along at a later stage to say they were surprised about something that they didn't really know was happening. This is the opportunity for all members to get really involved in the LDP, absolutely is, and I know that the updates from the strategic planning group are included as a standard agenda item on every mag agenda, so there's discussion there, as well as obviously other specific events that we may hold on workshops for all members, briefing notes that are created so we don't just rely on that, so we look at other meetings as well. It feels really inclusive to me for all members to get involved in the LDP, so keep up that good work, keep pushing it for members in the way that you're doing. Thank you. Thanks, I can only say as well, from the mags perspective, I think that's a really good idea because you've got a representative from every mag area across the county and in fairness, I don't think Andrea's here today, Andrea Tomlin always gives a really good, comprehensive feedback and report to the prostatin maggers. I think you sat on the stand, Maggi South, so yeah, thanks for that, thanks Graham, and thanks Brian for the question. Okay, no further hands up, we'll go to the recommendations, and the recommendations are as you can see from the papers that Cabinet approves, the damage to draft local housing market assessment for submission to the Welsh Government, as we've said, that's a statutory obligation we've got, and then in addition, we delegate authority to the lead member, Councillor least Thomas to agree, any minor editorial changes required to the local housing market assessment prior to its submission, so approving it in its draft form with delegation to reach for any minor changes, so can I have a proposal, we accept the recommendations proposed by Julie Matthews, seconded by Councillor Gwyneth Alice, all those in favour. That's unanimous, thank you very much, thanks, thanks for your hard work, thanks. We're going to go on to the next agenda item which is the long-term plan for towns, parts of the levelling up agenda, as it impacts on real, so join me Tony Ward, thanks Tony for joining us, so back in the spring budget, the Chancellor Jeremy Hunt identified real as a town, I think it was in the second or third second ranch of funding for the long-term plan for towns initiative, the announcement was made, there was communications, we're really pleased that the UK Government has got the confidence in Denver share, the confidence in us as a county to deliver for real, and the plans for the long-term plans for towns initiative around real have come out over recent weeks, and there's been quite a lot of work to undertake, the first requirement is to establish a board, and the first requirement is to establish a chair person for that board, the award is 20 million and it's an endowment type payment to be paid over over 10 years with Denver having responsibility but working with the board, so with that timetable in mind, all our efforts have been put into the board itself and the chair person, I think it's fair to say the timetable has been exceptionally challenging, a lot to do in a very short period of time, as I said we're pleased that the UK Government have got the confidence in Denver share to award this, but I think a little bit more forward notice of procedures and policies would have been welcome, but nevertheless we're in a good place and that brings to where we are today, that we've been in the process of speaking to a number of people who may be appropriate for the chair, there are some guidelines, they're not particularly prescriptive, so it does give us a little bit of room, I'll let Tony explain the position around an extra additional hotter funding to assist in that process, so I'll be clear that the UK Government have made funding available for the work that's to be done for the appointment of the chair person, so that funding is there for us to employ consultants who've had experience with working with other towns, and I want to stress that that is separate money, it's not going to be skimmed from the from the pot that we've had from the UK Government, we could have refused that money, but that would have been stupid because of the the the owners of the work would have then gone on Tony's team, and it's a lot of work to do in a short period of time, and it would have taken capacity away from other areas as well, so we took that offer and we're in the process now of working to get the board in place and a chair person in place, that's the background I'll hand over to Tony is there anything more that you want to say Tony? Okay thanks Jason, as the leader said it's really good news for the town and it's an exciting opportunity to build on the work that's already been delivered to regenerate the town, it is a new funding model and as the leader has already stated we were only informed about the allocation for real in March this year, so there's been a lot to do, we've got to undertake various steps by the 1st of June, or actually I should correct that since this report was written we've had an extension to the deadline to the 3rd of June, because the 1st of June is a Saturday, so just a slight tweak to the information. It's good to see the government's listing. We've got an extra weekend to do the additional work which you know we'll take that, so I just need to point that out for clarity, it's a 3rd of June, so we've got to undertake various steps by the 3rd of June in order to secure the funding, they're mainly administrative arrangements and tasks, but we do need to confirm who will chair the new town board and also confirm the people or organizational representatives who will make up the board by that 3rd of June deadline. There isn't an existing board in real that could have been adapted or repurposed for this purpose, so we've had to start from scratch so to speak in terms of this process, that process is ongoing still at the moment, which is why we're asking cabinet to delegate authority to me and the leader to complete those tasks and submit the necessary information by the 3rd of June deadline. Myself and Jason have got interviews arranged on Thursday afternoon to speak to a short list of individuals who have been expressed a potential interest in being the chair, so between us we will then have a recommendation for who should be appointed as the chair of that board, so as I say there's a little bit of work left to do in the remaining, what have we got, little over less than two weeks to get all this sorted out, but that's only the first step in the process, there is a second deadline, which is which is the start of November, where we will have to also submit the 10-year vision for the town, i.e. for the use of this funding and also a three-year delivery plan, and there'll be a lot of engagement work required in that period of time over the summer, summer and autumn, so as the leader suggested there is additional funding being made available by UK Government to enable us to do those tasks, it doesn't come out of the 20 million fund, it's additional to that, and we will be utilising that money to undertake that work, because otherwise it would have to come out of council coffers, which obviously we don't want, so that's really a summary of where we are, happy to answer any questions, but it's really about asking for that delegated authority today given the timescales that we're working in, so thank you, leader. Just to add to that as well, we've not lost sight of the work to do post, you know, post the post-tune, you know, we've got a lot of work to get the board in terms of reference, if I'm honest, I'd like to see it done that way, I think I'll be caught before the horse maybe, I think we'd have set up the terms of reference to the board and appointed from within, but that's not how we're told we've got to do that, and they say timescales are tight, but we're already looking at the work that the board will do around its governance and arrangement plan, looking at data, you know, all that's in hand, a lot of hard work, I want to stress a lot of hard work's been undertaken in a short, very short period of time here, and I'm grateful for concerned. Okay, I'll open up for questions now, Barry, did you want to come in and then go in there? Yeah, cheers, leader. It says in 4.7, the long-term 10-year vision for the town must be based on priorities of local people, but then it goes on to three themes of safety and security, high streets heritage and regeneration, and transport and connectivity. Those three themes have always been set by government. Yes, they have, Barry, that's part of the guidance for this for this funding, so those are the three themes, they're fairly broad themes actually, aren't they, so, you know, and they're probably themes that we would recognise as actually fitting, you know, they're the real, and so I don't see that being an issue. Obviously, we already have a vision for real, and that's something that a lot of work went into a few years ago, and there was a lot of community engagement in relation to that process. We were already planning to do a light social review of the real vision, because it has been a few years since that was done, so there is an opportunity to kind of do that in tandem with the development of this, because what we don't really want is two visions for the town, so we want those things to link together into one document, if possible. So, yeah, that's where we are with that, but so, yeah, the timing falls quite nicely actually. So, this is good news, obviously, for Pearl, but I do believe that there's a risk that this is going to increase the impression in the rest remainder of the county, that Pearl is prioritised ahead of other areas in the county, and that all the money goes to real. How can we, as a council, ensure that that impression is not true? That's my first question, and then secondly, Tony, we've already heard that you were putting a great deal of hours into this currently, and of course, that means costs to us in two different ways. The direct costs of your salary, but also the costs, through the money you're investing in this, that is time that you're not being able to spend on developing transformational plans and savings plans for the council, and that's vitally important to us at the moment as well. So, how can we have assurance that the time you're spending on this isn't to our detriment as a council that you're not spending time on savings and transformational change? Thank you. So, a couple of things there. Yes, this is additional money for real, so I guess that that risk does exist. We just need to be really clear, and we're in our communications that we provide to the public that there's lots of money going into other areas as well. This is one strand of the leveling up agenda, and obviously we've had leveling up awards for Clued South, for Clued West, as well as the value of Clued, and then this money here, and also SPF, which has been delivered across the county, and we're also at Emily and his team at the moment, are going around the mags to talk about plans for each of the towns, and part of that job is to highlight that, actually, there's lots of things going on in all parts of the county, so I think that's how we deal with that message, but this is what it is. It's funding specifically for the town of Real, but we have to make that clear, as I say, that there's stuff going on, good stuff going on across the whole of the county. In terms of my time, obviously there are many priorities that I'm kind of pulled to work on. I have to make sure that the work I do on each of those priorities is proportionate, to the task in hand, and that's what I've been doing in relation to this. The funding that I talked about earlier, which is £200,000 for the next stage of the process, to do the development work in terms of the vision, the delivery plan, and the engagement. There is also a separate allocation and money for this first step, which is about putting the arrangements for the board together, and we have tapped into that, and we've brought in a consultant's help with some of the legwork, so that I don't have to do all of the legwork myself. I can focus my time and the need to focus his time on the actual interviewing process and the decision-making, rather than doing the administrative work and the legwork behind it, so that's how I've been managing that to make sure that my work is proportionate in relation to this task. Thank you. On that last point, are we able to claim against this fund for your time? I don't believe that we can know. I think I understand these four additional resources in order that are required, in order to undertake the task. I will double check the small print on the funding, but I don't think it can. But as I say, I guess the only thing I would say is my salary is already paid by the council, and it's really a matter of prioritising my tasks and my time in terms of the work that I do, and this is one of many, many things that I do, and although I've put a bit of work into this and have had to, I don't think it's been disproportionate in terms of the importance of the task. Just quickly a quick plug for the rest of the county. And his team have been going around the mag areas with the town regeneration plans, which are plans that are trying to highlight what's been done in towns, what projects are currently in train, are actually being delivered, and what's in the pipeline for the town. I think that's quite a comprehensive list. So because we're conscious, of course, it's not all about real. We want to make sure that we're supporting and developing our towns across the county, and then that also reflects in our success with the levelling up fund in both fluid south and fluid west. And so we have to reflect we've done really well, attracting that money in across the county. I don't think there's any other county in Wales that have had all three constituency areas or all their constituents, three for Denvershire, we've been successful in levelling up fund. So I think I'm really proud of that, that we've been able to do that, and therefore got investment going in to the towns in fluid south and fluid west. And of course we've got the corporate plan, and the corporate plan is about the county as a whole and how we deliver things. So I think there's a number of different areas that we make sure we're proportionate, but it's a fact that real has been a long-term aspiration for the county with partners, Welsh Government and the partners to try and regenerate the town, because obviously we know there's got the two most deprived wards in Wales on the whim, so it's right that we put that extra bit of effort into real because of that areas of deprivation. I think we've made a lot of good progress in real, there's still a lot more to do, which is why it's important that we've attracted this extra funding in, because we've always talked about tipping points, and of course we want today where we don't talk about regeneration and real, we just talk about real like we talk about our other towns, and it's got its own self-sufficient economy, and we've not got to the most deprived wards in Wales, and that's an important aspect for us. So I think we try to always get that balance right around these competing kind of demands, but we're very conscious that Denvershire stretches from the coast all the way down to the D Valley, and we try and make sure we're proportionate in the work that we're doing, but it's a fair question and a fair challenge. Thank you. I just answered that from my perspective as a leader, so really pleased when Cluid West was awarded the funding for some good transformational projects, that was awarded ahead of the veil of Cluid, so those projects are much further down the line, which is great, and so on that point I've recently, Emma, you and I were at a meeting about, you know, with all the stakeholders about deliverability and getting on with that, Tony and I met with a wrap of Ruth in town council and the Cluid West member of Parliament about, you know, the county's engagement with Ruth in the Cluid West element of the leveling up, so as Graham has said, it's a fair question from people across the county, but I think we're looking at real because of its particular needs, and it's about need, Graham's identifying it, it's right, you do that, just to reassure across the county, with the leveling up agenda is paying dividends across the county, and we're all working on it, as I said, we've been working on Ruth in and the Cluid West element, so yeah, just to clarify for me the work we're doing across the county. Okay, Julie, do you want to come in? Deal, thank you, Leader. Just, I'm actually going back to what Barry picked up on in terms of the, you know, the vision for the town must be based on the priorities of local people, and I know we haven't got the board sorted yet, or we haven't got the chair, but I suppose my question is really is, is that, have you any ideas or early indications the type of engagement you're going to do with the local people of real to find out what those priorities are, and also, I think what's going to be important is keeping people updated on progress, and keeping them informed, not just, you know, the public, other key stakeholders as well, so that people know that there is progress and there is things that are ongoing, so thank you, Tony. Thanks, Julie. We, if I'm honest, we have been focusing pretty much on the initial steps because of the timescares involved and the work required to get that done by essentially the end of this month, so we haven't given a huge amount of thought to the detail of the next step at the moment, but also I think that's okay because this can't be done by the council, and it needs to be directed by the board, and the board needs to be community focused, and have a really strong community element to it, so we don't want to be too, we don't want to start off by kind of having very fixed ideas about how it should be done, and we want that to happen organically and via the board, so really important we get this board up and running quickly, which obviously we need to because of the deadlines anyway, but even if the deadline wasn't there, we'd need to get it done quickly so we can start having those conversations and put a plan together, but that's as soon as we get the board up and running, that will be the focus. Thanks, Tommy and Julie, and if I can, Julie, I'm going to come back as well and and just pick up that to answer your question and what you say is absolutely right and really important, and I think the board who constitutes the board will be important to address that, so you know the member of parliament will be on it, elected members will be on it, there'll be a police representative, but below those sort of prescriptive roles we've got to think about community reps, DVC, third sector, schools, colleges, that's important, and other side, we have been thinking ahead, but the immediate work has to be around the board and the chair person, so it's a good question, and the board will reflect that, reflect those concerns, I should say. Okay, thanks, thanks, Julie. Jill, did you want to come in? Yeah, just quickly, I've got a quick question, but I just wanted to pick up on this idea of perception, it's really interesting because I've been speaking to people in real quite a lot recently, and when you speak to them, the perception is that the money goes to written, so it's really interesting when you when you speak to different groups of people, I think a lot of it depends on who you speak to, but they're very much, oh it's all about written and the money goes to written rightly or wrongly, when you know, that's obviously not the case, but that idea of perception is interesting depending on where you've been, I think, and again, the money for real, it's important to note that this has been allocated by Welsh Government for real, it's not by our design, however, I do think it's appropriate because of the nature of the socio-economic challenges that are in real, I think the reason why we're still on re-real generation and not just looking at real, like we do the other towns in Denvershire is because of the enormity of the challenge, I visited Blackpool North recently, and it was interesting to see the parallels of what they're dealing with there and what we're dealing with real with regard to a big seaside town, where things are changing, where the nature of where people holiday and what they do is changing, where the demographics are changing, it's definitely something that we can see broader than real and it's a particular challenge, so I'm glad to see that that money's been allocated on that basis really, anyway, sorry, I just wanted to come in on that, my question is about this first of June date because I just want to make sure I've got it right, really, that it's not just the chair that we have to appoint by the first of June, it's the board members and basically the way that it's going to run, because it just seems to be so much in that short period of time and then of course the first of November will come around in no time as well, I just wanted to make sure that I've got that absolutely right because it just seems, it seems a real real ask from UK government to get it done in that time frame, as grateful as we offer the money, it just seems enormous, so thank you. It is a big ask, Jill, you're absolutely right, however, as I was kind of alluding to before, you know, the quicker we do it the better because there's a lot to do by the first of November, but the guidance does suggest that we need to have the named individuals for the board as well, we've kind of only been getting information, kind of even this week, I think we've had some further information about the requirements, I think we've now received the forms that we need to fill in by the third of June and yeah, we do need to identify the who the actual board members will be as well, we have been doing that work in association with the work around identifying a chair, so we haven't just been focusing on the chair, we've been having discussions around the types of sectors and organisations that we feel should be on the board and we've been contacting people to see about their ability, willingness, desire, capacity, etc, to be on the board and some of those discussions have been taking place with people in association with discussions about their desire to potentially be the chair, because there may be people that we spoke to who may not end up being a chair, the chair, but may end up being on the board and of course this is just the first the initial setup, isn't it, you know, once the board is established, you know, we don't necessarily think that the same person might be the chair for 10 years, because this is a 10 year plan, so, you know, once we get the board established, it will be up to the board to agree how they organise themselves, to a large extent, they may appoint a vice chair, they may appoint a kind of rolling chair where, you know, the chair is the chair for two years and then the vice chair takes over and that kind of thing, that's all really up for grabs, but we have got, we are pointing together a proposal for the board as well as the chair, that's the answer to your question, so hopefully all that will be tied up in advance of the third of June, we can get it all submitted. So, it's a lot of work there, Jill, really, right? Great, thanks, Amris. Thank you very much, I feel that the discussion is coming to its close, just to pick up on the impression that exists, or the perception that exists in the south of the county, that money goes to the real direction constantly and it doesn't matter how many times you say that it's much government who have allocated or offered that funding for specific projects down in Hill and of course this, and Jill has already said that this perception in other places that riffing gets all the funding, I think what's important because of these misconceptions that we use our communications development very, very carefully to make sure that the correct information is put out there so that the public can see and hear all the accurate information. Thank you. I can't say much more to that, yeah, you know, I think we have had some good comms around the work that we're doing around the Cluid West, West bit and the work that's ongoing and obviously on this as well, yeah, we need perhaps a bit more work around those perceptions. Okay, I've got is that Gareth Sandalands and Hugh Irving with their hand up as well, and Brian as well. Do you want to come in Brian as you're here? Okay, Gareth and then Hugh. Gareth, you're on mute. Sorry, I thought Brian was coming in. Apologies for not having the video on my mobile phone at the moment, the wonders of technology. This is a really, really important step and I welcome the £20 million for real. And you might say, why is he welcoming a £20 million for the next neighbourhood, town and not prostatin? Well, it's the fact that real has two of the most deprived areas in the whole of Wales. It is a big thing for Denvershire, you know, India have the number one most deprived area of Wales. That is a shocking statistic for any county. And that is the priority, that should be our priority. It is 17.5% of the population, so it is Denvershire's biggest town. And as a whole of Denvershire, it has a tremendous ripple effect and reputational risk for our county. Certainly my neighbouring, where I represent prostatin, we have a lot of common boundaries and a lot of common economic benefits to real. So we will feel that very closely. My question is regarding the governance of this whole board. It is going to be an independent, separate, democratically run board of Denvershire. So it isn't going to be controlled by Denvershire County Council by an stretch of the imagination. First question is, as a separately controlled organisation, are they able to draw down more money and leverage the 20 million they are provided with? Because I think that has the potential to go quite wide and draw down certainly a lot of capital money that's needed to be spent on the buildings. In terms of the board structure, I have experienced good governance and the terms of the board members. Are they fixed terms, or are they varied, and who decides those terms? The other question is, will it be set up as a legal entity as a community interest company, a non-for-profit-making organisation towards the governance of the side of this organisation? And lastly, what clear targets will they have and will that be set by not internally, so they won't be working to their own internal targets? So there's a few questions in there. I'd like to clarification on that, please. Thank you. Okay, Garis, some good questions there about the governance of the board, but just to clarify one point, the attorney can come in on this. The funding, the monies, the pot, if we can call it that, the book stops with DCC. We're running that. The board is there as part of that, but the funding is the responsibility of Danbyshire. The governance structures, Garis, I think as Tony has said, and I'll bring Tony in in a minute, will be around a lot around how the board themselves, so they will have that autonomy, how they want to conduct themselves. Tony, do you want to come in at that point? Yeah, thanks, Jason. You're right to point out, and it highlights the report in 4.1, that the funding is actually awarded to Danbyshire County Council, and the Council remains accountable for the funding and for the delivery of the plan. So really, the board, the work of the board will be around the development of that plan and for prioritising the various initiatives that the funding should be spent on, but the Council would say remain accountable for it, so we have to control the money in that sense it comes to us. The governance around the board, to some extent, is part of the stuff that needs to be submitted by the third of June. There are various things that we need to do, for example, clarify the terms of reference for the board, as well as the structure and how the board will be made up. But then again, this is a new thing, and so we're just feeling our way through it, and to some extent, I think you do then have to establish the board and let the board have a discussion and a view on the governance arrangements and the terms of reference. It's normally the first thing you do, isn't it, in the first meeting of any board, is to discuss and then agree the terms of reference. I think the board has to have that leeway to have an input into that, even though we have to submit something by the third of June in order to secure the funding. I don't see that as being the end of the process. I see that as being the first step, because the board has to have some input into it, which isn't possible by the third of June, because it doesn't exist yet. So I'm not sure I've got all the answers to all of the questions that Gareth has asked at the moment, because I think the board needs to have a role in shaping some of that to some extent. So can the money be used to leave it in additional money from different funding parts? Well, I think it possibly could, but I haven't got a definite answer on that at the moment. It would depend, I guess, on the nature of the other funding streams that we were talking about, because there are often different rules for different funding parts about who can apply and what's eligible and what isn't. So I guess it would be a little bit horses for courses in terms of that situation. Will it be registered as a community interest company? I don't know Gareth, if I'm honest. I think these are all questions that would have to be looked at and would have to be discussed with the board around the rules to it, and to be honest, that there isn't a huge amount of details about the rules in relation to this currently. All we know is what we have to do by the 3rd of June in order to progress to the next step of the process and secure the funding. So apologies if I'm not able to answer the detail of all of those questions at the moment, but I'd be very happy to look at those issues as we go forward in the process and make sure we get that clarity. And I think it might be a good idea, leader, if we were to bring the report back to Cabinet to actually confirm the arrangements after the 3rd of June. We clearly have to do stuff by the 3rd of June. We could bring the report back to clarify exactly what arrangements have been put in place. So we've got that openness and transparency and everybody can ask these questions of detail. Thanks Tony. Can I just come back quickly on them? I think it was something, Jason. Just one minute, Gareth, because I do need to make a point that I've made before. I will bring you back in, which a point I made earlier was about putting the cart before the horse. I would have preferred that we do constitute the board and had all of these questions addressed before and then allow the board to appoint a chairperson from within that structure, but we're not being asked to do that. We're asked to constitute a chairperson, the person's personalities, people around that board, and then the governance. And it's, as Tony has said, Gareth, that it's a good question. The guidelines aren't particularly prescriptive and the governance and arrangements, the engagement plan, the public engagement, that comes to Julie's point about public buying. That can come from bottom up from the board itself. And we've got to make sure that we're doing that, working on that already. And it's important that the board have that buy-in and can constitute it itself, but you're right to raise those points on the governance, Gareth. I wanted to make those points and I'll bring you back in now, Gareth. Thanks. Thanks very much, Leader. I think you've stressed what I'm trying to stress really, and one is we aren't too sure of the legal entity of this board, what the legal structure is going to be of this board. We're having to work within deadlines, which I'm not of our making. And I feel that a board can pass a million-pound project, but then the delay comes when it has to be referenced through the cabinet and through Dembershire's legal system to pass that economic money. So it's not going to be an easy process to follow when we've got all this other layers of bureaucracy to deal with. But I understand completely that within two weeks we have to have a lot of answers to these questions, and it's not within our deadline. It's within external forces, so yes, we're grateful for the money. But please work with us as a partnership and not as a dictatorship from the UK government. Thank you. Great. Do you want to come in? It's just to say that having read the guidance document that is referenced in the report, this isn't explicit, but it's implicit that it wouldn't be an entity that would have its own legal personality, because it's quite clear that the local authority is intended to be the accountable body in respect to funding, et cetera. In other words, the board will not have a legal identity to enable it to hold the money or to enable it to enter into contracts or to buy or sell land, et cetera, et cetera. So it's clearly the intention, I would suggest, in the guidance document, that this is a board, very much in some of the other boards that we would set up, doesn't have its own legal identity. Now, whether that will change over time or whether the guidance will change over time, but certainly the implication from the guidance, which is, if it was intended that the board was to have its own legal identity, there'd be no point the council being the accountable body, you could just give the board the money. It would suggest that that's the intention. Thanks Gary. Thanks Gary. And just a wider point as well, we are rightly honing in on these details that we've got to deliver, but I'm confident, 100% confident that we're working really hard, that this work, you know, by the end of this calendar year, we'll have a fully constituted working board and we'll be cracking on with the improvements that this is going to make. Okay, I'm going to bring in Hugh Irving and then Brian's been wasting patiently in the market. Thank you. I don't want to preempt anything Brian is going to say because, of course, he's a real member with the local knowledge. I was purely going to make the point that I think it's extremely important that the business community in real has good representation on this board, otherwise they're going to get lost in the, seriously more the official of it, but if you're talking about bringing in police and DVSC and all those sort of organizations, at the end of the day, the people that are going to have to deliver the commercial success or the business community. And I don't think we should lose sight of that. And I hope you'll confirm that that will be the case that they will have representation on the board. Thank you. Absolutely Hugh. You're absolutely right and they will. I should have stressed that before, but Julie asked about community groups and my answer to Julie was based around that. Businesses will clearly have a really important part to play and will form an important part of the board. Okay, Tony, do you want to add anything? No, I agree. Yeah, there are certain, as you alluded to earlier, Jason, there are certain organizations who are mandated or people who are mandated to be on the board, but there is some flexibility around the rest of it and the business community is certainly that certainly a sector we need to be represented on the board, absolutely. Unrepresented to have an important and vocal part to play in both the board and the deliverability. If I could just very briefly come back from my experience in Plistatid years ago with a much smaller scheme, if you haven't got your business sector on board, and that was part of the reason that that one wasn't as successful as it could have been, then you're lost in terms of regenerating your town centre. You're absolutely lost. So that's my point, but I'm sure Brian will have a lot more than me to say on the subject. Yeah, Hugh, again, what you're saying, and we've talked today and it's in the papers that the specific area to look at is town centre regeneration. So that's absolutely, that's one thing that's in the guidelines. So yeah, okay. There's that big build up, having a lot to say really. There's town boards that are already established, isn't it? So I take it, we've tapped into that and picked up some learning about putting our town board together. I think that's correct, isn't it? It is. I would chat with Liz Burnett, who's in, Liz Burnett's in in in the Morgan Barry Island, not our Barry Island, have had some funding. So we are looking at talking to other councils yet, and the consultants will be doing that as well, yeah. Yeah, so there's learning there and information that will make Mr Ward's job easier between now and the 3rd June. So that's good. I think it's a case to say get the funding first of all. You might say this is a hazard approach to secure the funding and then sort the detail out after that. That's the way it can work. So don't get bogged down with it. I know you've got to fill in statutory paperwork, get it filled in, get the funding and then jump into the nitty gritty of it. I think it is a big opportunity this time around because in the small print it mentions the engagement of the communities and it's an opportunity to start at the bottom, get them on board, sort the week from the chat and then when you do come up with a vision, they're part of the vision and then when they're part of the vision, you're not going to get what we've had over a number of years now in real where projects have happened, things haven't gone great and then you set up for an absolute knocking. There we go, damage accountability council again, not delivering, it doesn't work, it doesn't suit. So this is an opportunity to get the community, it grassroots involved. You don't have to listen to everything they say and everything they put forward but if you can have a fruitful engagement with them and that's part of the vision, then everyone's in it together and you've started here and you're bringing them along to where you're going to get with your vision. So I can really see that working if we get it right, I'm sure Mr Ward and his team and everyone else else trying to do that. So you've got a list for potential chairs this Thursday I think you said, are you confident that within that list and I'll admit I've been a bit mischievous seeing in the background, pushing people forward, if that's the right word mischievous and I know there's some people on the list, the business people, they've got no connections with running of councils or anything like that but there is two or three people on there that I've got the interest of real at heart. I'm going to cut you off from there because we can't start talking about individuals. I'm not going to mention names. I can't, I can't, I don't think you're right. We can't mention names but if we start talking about individuals and they're back out with them, we are saying about identifying with them and I was about to say as well, this is well gone. I'll let you finish but we can't go into that. We're interviewing people this week, we'll leave it at that, we can't go to leave it at that in no more detail. So the question on that then is, is there a level of confidence you'll find a chair from that and if there isn't, if you've got a plan B, but I'm just saying that I'm confident you will find a chair from it but if you can answer that. Thanks Brian. Yes, is the answer we're confident that we will identify a chair by hopefully by the end of this week. It depends on people's availability. You know, whether we can get those discussions in the diary for this week but yes, I am because discussions have been, yeah, I'll just leave it at that. We're confident. The other thing I wanted to point out Brian was, I don't think there's any mischief in it because what we did as a council, we put it out there to everyone. Please come back with names, please come back and name yourself. We wanted to promote that as far as wide and if you've been part of that, we're grateful for it and the other thing I completely agree with is what you first said about and I've alluded to it today that we're concentrating on this. I think you called it the bureaucracy and you're right. The admin, we're concentrating on this today and this week, we've been concentrating on it for the last few weeks, working hard, getting it done and as you said, that's what I'm stressing today as well. Get it out of the way, get the board constitute and crack on and get the job done. Okay, then I found a word from me on on real in general and we had these conversations in the last council. Yeah, I accept that comments fly down to real about it gets all the money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I think there is a valid point to make here that if real booms, there is that ripple out effect to the rest of the county that lots of other places can benefit as well from the success that might come real as well. Absolutely. Thank you, Gareth pointed that out as a councillor from a neighbouring town and as a leader of the whole council, you know, I think, you know, it really, it really is booming. We're all booming and we're working, as I said, we're working on, on Clued Western and Rustin as well. But today it's about the arrangements to get the funding and the board set up for this money to come into realm. Okay, I don't think anyone has indicated they want to speak any further. So we'll go to the recommendations and the recommendations are bare with me because my paper copy is from the previous graph to the recommendations are that the Camelot Delegate Authority to the Corporate Director of Environment and Economy, Tony, and the leader and lead member of economic growth and attack and deprivation myself, delegation for submitting the necessary information to the UK government in order to meet the requirements of the funding by the deadline of the, will amend that the 3rd of June. Okay, so can I have a proposal? Proposed by Councillor Miller, seconded by Councillor Jill German, all in favour? That's unanimous. Thank you. Okay, good debate there. Looking forward to cracking on with this work. We're going to now look at the Forward Work Program. Gary, any views on that? Yes, Leader, since the Forward Work Program was published, there's been a number of items entered onto it. So added to July, October, and January updates on the medium term financial strategy and medium term financial plan. Added to January 25 is the revenue budget setting for 2025-26. Also added to January 25 is the capital plan, 2025-26-27-28. And added to February is the revenue budget and council tax setting 2025-26 for recommendations to be made to council. Sorry, any views on the Forward Work Program? I'm only going to add that the last agenda item, Tony and I, to bring updates. Yeah, as of when. Yeah, okay. If there's looking at the screen, if there's no other comments on the Forward Work Program, that very much brings the meeting to an end. Do you think I'll? Thanks all.