Transcript

The Dempshire County Council being held on the 14th of May 2024. This meeting is being webcast with the exception of any business that the Council resolves to exclude the present public because of the likely disclosure of exemption information as defined by the Local Government Act 1972. This meeting is being held as a hybrid meeting with members attending in person at the Council Chamber, County Hall Riffing or remotely by a video conference. Those attending remotely are kindly asked to mute their microphones unless they are called upon to speak. Members are also asked to have their videos switched on throughout the meeting unless I specifically request you to turn your video off to improve the quality of the audio link when you are speaking. You will be expected to restart your video once you have finished speaking. These also refrain from using the chat facility as these messages sent are visible on the webcast. Those present in the Chamber are asked to make sure that they speak directly into the microphone to improve the quality of sound for those attending remotely. To aid transparently, all the meeting business must be conducted through the Chair. So, can I ask for any apologies?

Thank you, Chair. Councillor Rhys. Thank you. Councillor interjecting. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor David Williams, who has had a large operation a few weeks ago, but all had to return to hospital as well. So, just so you know, if you haven't heard or seen from David, that's just out of action at the time. Thanks. Councillor Bryan Jones, who has another commitment this morning, sends it upon you. Thank you. I think Councillor Jones is actually is attending remotely, I think. Yes, it is. And, sorry, Chair, also we've had, I understand we've had apologies from Councillor Errol Williams. First, I would like to pay tribute to our dear colleague and friend, Councillor Windmill and James, who passed away recently, a great shock to all of us. Wind was a valued member of the Labor Group for many years and more recently, lead member of DCC Cabinet. Windmill was highly respected to walk by all who met her and was a very dear friend. She will be sorely missed by all her family, friends and fellow Councillors, but especially by her husband, Alan, also one of our Councillors. The newly elected Chair of the Council will pay further tribute to him later on the proceedings and will invite the group leaders. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Members will be aware of the claimant and the council's court of conduct to declare any personal or prejudicial interest in respect of any business to be conducted at today's meeting. Such interest should be declared now, or as soon as the council affected, it becomes aware that they have a personal or a prejudicial interest in today's business. All members declaring an interest are required to stay clearly what the interest is and to advise whether it is a personal interest or a personal or prejudicial interest as defined in the court of conduct. Any member declaring a prejudicial interest is required to leave the meeting for the duration of the business being discussed and can take no part in the proceedings. Members with a personal interest only may take part in the debate and any votes. If a personal or personal or prejudicial interest is declared today that has not been disclosed or recorded, the Council are concerned will be required to complete and sign a declaration of interest form which is either available from committee support staff in sentence today or online. Can I invite a proposal and a seconder for the position of Chair of Council for the 2024-25 Municipal Year, please. Thank you, Hugh. Good morning, everybody. It gives me great pleasure on behalf of the conservancy group to nominate Councillor Peter Scott as chairman of the Council for the ensuing municipal year. We are all very aware of the circumstances under which Peter willingly stepped into the chair part way through last year following the sudden and timely passing of Councillor Pete Pendingost. Peter had just suffered a grievous loss of his own at the time but didn't hesitate to step into this gap and carried out his duties for the remainder of that year with dignity and diplomacy, giving us all a huge example of personal commitment to duty. Now is the time for him to be elected to this important role in his own right, his lengthy experience of public service particularly in his adopted home city of St. Joseph which he knows so well, both as a retired public and businessman and chairman of the city council. His lengthy experience in local government evidently qualifies him for this term of office and I propose Councillor Peter Scott as chairman of the Ebersha County Council for the municipal year 2024-25. Thank you. Well, good morning and I would also like to do second Peter Scott because I just want to pay tribute to the way that he did step up into the role as Hugh says in the circumstances and it's you know nothing deters a good man from doing what is honorable and that's what you did at that time. So on behalf of the independent group, I'd like to second your appointment and continue your office in the chair. Are there any other nominations? Thank you. In that case chair on the basis that there's only one nominee, there's no need for a formal vote but members may wish to affirm their consent by raising their hands. Take a chair, that's the consent of the meeting and you may want to invite Councillor Scott to the dais. Can I invite Councillor Scott to the dais please? Thank you. Well, I think I really wish this to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. aye. Thank you. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. aye. Thank you very much. Some might have thought they got rid of me, but you've not, you've got me for another 12 months. Oh sit down the camera won't get me. I've got what I'm doing, I already'd want to be sat down five minutes. Thank you, I've got to sign that in. I've got to sign this before I get going. I, Peter Scott, have been elected to the Office of Chairman of Dumberty County Council, declare that I take the office upon myself and will duly and faithfully fulfil the duties of it according to the best of my judgement and ability. I undertake to observe the code of the, for the time being as to the conduct which is expected members of Dumberty County Council and which may revise from time to time. I'm going to let you go. Thank you. Congratulations, you know, thank you very much. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Joan, for dressing us nicely. I didn't realise we looked that bad from down there. A couple of announcements from myself if you just let me get me papers organised again because I was organised when I came in but I'm not anymore. No, my consult for the next 12 months will be my daughter or granddaughters, who unfortunately granddaughters both work and my daughter is a school teacher at Emory Sapmurian and it's GC time and she can't get away. My chaplain will be Nigel Williams, the same excuse for Nigel Lee can't get away either but hopefully they will all assist me this next year and my charity will be again, St. Kentigan's, who have been very good to me in the past and we've looked after us all that time. That's it. I had one paper that said where I'd been, oh, there we go. I've had about six engagements since the last time we talked. I went to Moira for the chair of Angles' civic service, which is a long way to go to listen to someone speaking Welsh and English down the word. I went to the sort of community nature space where they were planting trees and helping plant trees, I don't know what I did, I just had my picture taken, I've been to the chairman of Flinch's charity dinner, the mayor of Rills' charity quiz night where Colin Hardy was my concert but I couldn't make him wear a dress and went to the high sheriff's service in Churk and a mayor making duty in Demby the weekend, which was very, very good. So that's where we're up to. I'm hoping there will be a lot more engagement. That's just hilarious. There's lots of things that we don't seem to have done my last year like flag flying and repatriating whatever the one we called over there when people get passports and become British. There hasn't happened, so I'm just wondering why, but never mind, it may be funs and things like that but we will get going again. From my point of view, same was what I said when it came in last time, I worked for the people of Demby to best of my ability and that's where my love will always be in Dembyshire and that's what I will try and do and represent Dembyshire County Council again to the best of my ability with dignity and hopefully not say anything wrong, which you quite often might have. Someone reminded me over the weekend that the plaque behind us says, We unite to do good. Which sounds brilliant when I would love to do that and I think uniting to do good is better than politics. Politics can get in the way. Let's be good and let's do everything for Dembyshire's people and that's where I'll come. I don't know what's next for a camper that I'm big for. Right. Or is it just a chair we're doing out now? Oh, that's, sorry, yes. I knew it was something very difficult. I was looking back on my website back to last September over the week and there was a message on there from Councillor WINMULL and James which said, I've just heard your very sad news. I cannot tell you're upset. You know, the loss of such a lovely lady and one I consider a friend. I'd also like to say I considered Allen and WINM a very, very big friends of mine and it's so sad that WINM has passed and I can't get into my head that so many nice people have passed over the recent time and it's difficult to sit here and go through them but Peter was brilliant to me, Brian, you know, my wife and now WINM, it doesn't make sense. It does, it doesn't make sense to me and I'm sorry and I'm extremely sorry, Helen, really am. We'll pair of widowers together and I'll never know how we'll get on. I'd not say any more. Thank you very much. Can I ask the group leaders to say a few words? Jason? Thank you Chair and can I say congratulations to yourself and to dive for Vice Chair for your appointment as Chair and for stepping in last year in difficult circumstances. We're all grateful for that and can I wish David a speedy recovery as well as we can pass that? If I send Peter off or David, sorry, our best wishes. I'm going to talk about WINM and it's so difficult. It was such shock, it's such terrible news. As you said yourself, Chair, we've lost friends and colleagues previously. On those occasions there was a little bit of time between the side-passing and us coming together as Councillors and we haven't had that this time, it's so raw and it was so difficult to process so soon afterwards it's just a huge shock and a huge loss. I really, really have to say a massive thank you to Alan for his bravery for being here today but his attendance as the meetings that he went to last week, Alan is Chair of our Labor Group, he chaired our AGM last week as well and I really want to thank Alan for his bravery and as Alan has said, it's very much what WINM would have wanted that the show goes on, business goes on and I want to really thank Alan for his bravery and his commitment. I will talk about WINM. WINM was in public service for many, many years. He held many, many roles, I think perhaps most proudest would perhaps be her being mayor of rail, a town that she worked tirelessly for, a town that she loved, a town that she was proud to represent as mayor, as she's been a town councillor, a county council sat on a number of committees and of course recently she stepped up to become cabinet member, cabinet member for planning. I've known WINM for many years and I'll share a little story now that the first time I met WINM was actually 13 when she was the school nurse in starting a high school and I know it was a long time ago and I joined the queue with an acute pain in my side, I joined the queue of her skinny, un-sporty people trying to get out of PA but yeah, a lot changed. But on that occasion, WINM identified as a appendicitis and whisked me up to the hospital, so I'll always be grateful to WINM for that, I'm not sure whether she remembers that but that was the first time I'd ever met WINM. But I've known her for many years through the Labour party, working with WINM through all the elections we've had over recent years and I've mentioned this before, I'm really grateful for WINM and Alan, they came out and helped in the San Edward elections in 2021, it was part of that campaign and as I say, grateful for WINM for taking on the cabinet position as lead member for planning, I think perhaps dare I say planning isn't as front line of a can use that as say education or health but my goodness, it's hard work, there's a lot of work involved and WINM stepped up brilliantly and she worked diligently on many hard issues around the AOMB as we know, around traveller sites and the regional work that we're now expected to do on the regional planning committee and she worked tirelessly with actually work with the offices of Natural Resource Wales on the AOMB, as I say, the regional work and always be grateful for WINM for her contribution and her hard work in her cabinet position, it's difficult to talk about WINM without talking about Alan and WINM clearly had a deep rooted love and affection for each other, you only had to be around them for a few minutes to see that, Peter's nodding and smiling there, sparkle in their eyes for each other and that was just absolutely brilliant to see, WINM of course will be missed by all of us, she will be missed as a comrade in the Labour Party, she'll be missed as a hard working colleague and she'll be missed as a friend, thank you. Thank you very much Jason, cheers, thank you. Can I ask you, I'll let you, please, first. Thank you Chair, Alan family and the larger Labour family, our thoughts from the independence totally go out to an absolute true professional, I was having a drink over the weekend and the death of WINM came up and I said it's awfully sad, you know, because of Alan as well and they said I would have no idea that they were a couple because they were so professional and I think that is massively, even when you could see him work together slightly on planning every now and then, when they dig in. But I first met WINM when I was chairing scrutiny and the community scrutiny and she joined the council and this quiet lady came in and introduced herself and then I saw her go into bat and I thought, well okay, we've got a sharp cookie here, who knows her stuff, has read her stuff and put a few old hand counsellors in their place very quietly but very distinctly we did it and I think when I think of WIN, I think of a voice of reason, I think a voice of sense, I think one of an eloquent style that never really showed she was rattled but she just stuck to a line, a grifter in her community, I think she was quietly strong but stood her ground and she was not for turning unless you could give her the evidence that she had to and then she would take it with grace and do so. So to Alan and the family, all I can say is that you, we, the council, the community, has lost a true lady and for me, rest in pace, Councillor Mullen-James. Thank you very much you. Can I have you hurling next please? With Chairman, members, as has become apparent this morning, we all have our personal memories of Councillor WIN, Mullen-James, mind of a highly respected, hard-working local Councillor of both town and county level who will be remembered for her commitment, not just to her community but to the entire county. WIN's politics to me seemed to be about consensus on the centre ground which I believe was her strength and leave her much admired for. My memories of WIN, like Jason, go back well over 40 years when she was a respected community nurse and then school nurse after starting high school. Mr Chairman, I hope you'll forgive me a personal memory when, as Mrs Mullen, I remember her as a valued and respected client of our family business. On behalf of the Conservative Group, I would like to offer Alan and all our family our condolences at this sad time. WIN will be sadly missed by all those whose lives she touched in so many different ways. Thank you. Thank you, Hugh. How well for the plight, Councillor? Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. Well done, English. Delhi Delith and Brian Tukalnade. Thank you, Delith, for allowing you to do so. WIN, Mel and James, she was a friend of mine, I thought, for many, many years. And on behalf of the plight and the group, we do committed it with you, Alan, very much. If Taylor or your family. When you first contact me, she called as a school nurse while I was a teacher. When I was a head teacher in Touloggan Primary School. When I met all of us, we brought in Qavar Vodin with Heter. And in Aindaiyung and Coruerema and in Sia. We will think our paths across again as the Ambisha County Council. Her son, Agrithya and this thou, I can go threddy and doeth. She was a quiet person and always reacted wisely. The Dumadikotli person did a flower over Baud-Aith, Afro-Vyad and Win. You lost a person of great wisdom. And knowledge this month. And instead of covenant, I send over the untreased a gothier and a he nest, one another, I'm in there and good day, read this year. With Arri, there have been a connect and Jason, Igor Vio, I'm Danny, on win. Qavar Vodin, Savole, and a covenant. Tithman, Tren, Anifumni, O'Reilly, Gardí, is Akatre. The other time when we remembered the late Queen last year and I was chair. Jason, the leader wasn't able to be present with myself in Cardiff. And who joined me on the train at win? I'm back to from Cardiff. Great company, Qumni da, Khmeryad Voffiz, a kind character and good company. Góni Góvio, amigo iceda, a Khmeradui, as I see Amla Cruz through win. Let's just remember the good and commendable work which came to fruition through win. Díacham kavlegadere, thank you for the chat. Chair and congratulations to you again. Thank you. Martin. Thanks, Chair. Sir, if you got to follow those speeches, on behalf of the Green Group, Alan, when we heard the news, we were really sorry for what happened to see you've got so much support around you to get you through this. The times I did was fortunate enough to chat to win before and after committee meetings we were on, I had some lovely chats, I really did. And I really look forward to the meetings that she chaired. The strategy committee, she always let me speak, even though I'm not actually on that committee, which I think just goes to show how patient she was, one of many great qualities. It's really good to see how you guys are supporting each other. I think that's really inspiring. You rally around, look after each other, that's great to see. So, yes, since they're condolences. Thank you very much, Martin. You want to say, Alan, I will invite you to know how difficult it is. Yes. Okay. Thanks very much. It is a difficult time for all of us, for a sort of family, but can I just thank everybody for their support? It's been outstanding. It's been real helpful to us. So, that's all I want to say. So, thanks to all of you. Hope you want a few. Thanks for the time. Thank you. Thank you for having us in hard work. You know, obvious. I'll very, very much, she was loved. And I'll very, very much, she would be missed. And I will offer any support. I can give you, Alan, you know that. Thank you. Thanks very much, Councillors. It's wonderful. That ends the civic part. It was that before. Oh, sorry. They just have ticked myself off. It's the appointment of the vice chair. I'm very sorry, Diane. I'm coming round again. Don't worry for me, you know. Where's my notes? Do I have a proposal for all of the office of vice chair of the council, Jill? It's my great pleasure to nominate Councillor Diane King to be vice chair of the council. Diane has extensive experience in civic roles, not least in her extended time as mayor of Thrill, from the loans of the pandemic to the highs of the celebration of the Queen's Jubilee, at which she spoke so eloquently at the events arena. And we were a very proud Labour group that day. So we also know that Diane was a consort to our much missed Councillor Pete Prendigast. I know that she was enormously valued in that role by Pete and the support that you gave him was brilliant and they made a really good team. And he would, of course, be extremely proud of how Diane stood in straight away as vice chair on his passing. She had no hesitation to take on that role. And I know that he'd be extremely proud to see Diane officially nominated today as vice chair of the council. So it gives me great pleasure on behalf of the Labour group to nominate Councillor Diane King. Thank you, Jill. Do we have a seconder for the nomination of vice chair? Thank you, Mr Chair. I'd like to second the nomination of Councillor Diane taking on the vice chair role. And I won't say very much at this stage because I do believe it is the chair's day today. But I do congratulate you on congratulating you, Peter, on taking on the chair of the council. I know you will do it on this. And I know Diane will be a great help during your year of office. Thank you. It gives me great pleasure in second taking the nomination. Thank you, Jill. Is there any other nominations? No, I'm happy to elect Diane as vice chair. Could we all just show that we agree? I'm sure that will be unanimous. Yes, that's wonderful. Thank you very much. Well done, Diane. And brilliant start to the meeting. I was impressed. I'm going to have to sign you in. Declaration of acceptance of office. I, Diane King, having been elected to the office of vice chairman of Dempshire County Council, declared that I take the office upon myself and will duly and faithfully fulfil the duties of it according to the best of my judgement and ability. I undertake to observe the code for the time being as to the conduct which is expected of members of Dempshire County Council, and which may be revised from time to time. Diane, we'll say a few words about the appointment. Thank you. Firstly, I'd like to introduce my son Mark, who's going to be my consort for the forthcoming year, sat over at the back there, and I would like to thank you, my fellow Councillors, for supporting voting me, in this very prestigious position, and I will endeavour to support Pete throughout his tenure. And finally, I must pay tribute to my dear friend, the late Pete Pentigas, and also Councillor Winmmull and James, whose loss is so deeply felt by so many people. Thank you. Thank you, Diane. Could we just, I forgot to do this, but I think we just need to stand for a minute's reflection in silence for Councillor Winmmull and James. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. for your attention. Thank you. for your attention. Thank you. the next year. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. the next year. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. the next year. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. for your attention. Thank you. the next year. Thank you. the next year. Thank you. Thank you. very much, Councillors. Now, that does end the civic procedure part of the meeting. So we now go to item five, urgent matters. We have a question, but I'll let Gary explain the procedure for questions to Carol Sol. Thank you, Chair. The Constitution provides that a member of the public may ask a question at council, provided they've given at least two working days notice, and that the question relates to something for which the council is responsible. We've had notice within the appropriate time from Mr Gonzales, who wishes to ask a question. And he's attending by Zoom in order to ask this question. I think Mr Gonzales has just been admitted. The procedure is that the question is read out by the questionnaire, and it's responded to by the relevant lead member, which in this case will be Councillor Julie Matthews. I've explained to Mr Gonzales that under the terms of the Constitution, he's entitled to ask a supplementary question once he's received the initial response, provided that the original question arises out of, sorry, the supplementary arises out the original question or the reply that's been given. And in terms of a supplementary question is open for the lead member to respond in writing rather than at the meeting. So you might want to invite Mr Gonzales. Thank you, Gary. Mr Gonzales, would you like to put your question, please. Thank you. Hi, everyone. Thanks for having me. I'd like to address this question to, for, so this question is for Jason McMillan, the cabinet chair. And the question that I've submitted is as follows. So in the. So in Denver County Council's corporate plan 2022 to 2027 are advised in 2024. There's a section on equality, diversity and human rights, which states, we are committed to celebrating diversity and promoting equality. And promoting equality and everything we do. And that you will engage where appropriate with groups that represent people with protected characteristics. And in the wellbeing assessment section, you state your wellbeing impact assessments are designed to assess the likely impact of proposals on the social, economic, environmental and cultural wellbeing of Denver show Wales and the world. Can you therefore tell me what Denver show County Council are actively doing to engage with minority groups and ensure their wellbeing needs are addressed within. Denver show, ensuring their views are represented, and they are able to feel respected and valued by them. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr Gonzales and thank you for the question and welcome to the meeting. The protocol in this matter is that the question is actually physically answered by the lead member on cabinet, whose portfolio includes the topic of the company question. And in this instance, Mr Gonzales, the lead member is Councillor Julie Matthews, who was prepared a detailed answer for you. So I will at this stage, if that's okay, I'm going to sit down and hand over to my cabinet colleague, Councillor Julie Matthews. Thanks again. Thank you, chair. Thank you, Mr Gonzales for your question and public participation is always welcome. I must say, so thank you for taking the time to put forward this question. We are committed to celebrating diversity and promoting equality and everything we do to improve the quality of life for everyone living, working and visiting Denver show our vision of the future for the Council was developed in partnership with local communities and partners. Our strategic aim is to be a high performing Council closer to the community. As you state, St Empire County Council's corporate plan makes a strong commitment to equality and diversity. The plan contains our equality and wellbeing objectives, and these are reported throughout our quarterly reports. The next report will be an annual report to Council in July. The plan is available on our website with our equality objectives clearly identified. Engaging and listening to the voices of people with protected characteristics, people experiencing social, economic disadvantage and seldom heard groups is always important to us, and something we are always trying to improve. We also consider the impact on the aforementioned groups and consider opportunities to maximize equality through our wellbeing impact assessments, or our integrated impact assessments. Listed bodies like the Council must prepare and publish equality objectives every four years and must involve people who represent the interests of people who share one or more of the protected characteristics and have an interest in the way that the authority carries out its functions. Our online engagement portal is used constantly to engage in consults on our proposals, or what we call our county conversations. And we will soon be engaging to find out what people think of an updated engagement policy and public participation strategy. We canvas the views of everyone in the community, and we identify specific stakeholders that may be affected by a proposal through our wellbeing impact assessments, for example, for any more detailed engagements. This portal and policy and public participation strategy, guides the engagement work that is progressed across the Council, be it with traditionally hard to reach groups by education and children services and adult social care and homelessness. Within our housing and community service service in terms of gypsy Roma engagement within our planning, public protection and countryside services services with our targeted engagement around the local development plan. And within our finance and audit service in terms of revenues and benefits, there is always a great deal of engagement activity going on. As an example, in terms of the development of the corporate plan, we run workshops and a survey. We reviewed the information all partners already held from engagements and consultations to avoid asking the same questions again and again. We explored statistics and research to understand how inequality looks across the county and how it might persist. For example, in terms of health outcomes, education or poverty. There's a great deal of further information published on the public services board website too. Also, via the Conway and Damisher public services board, we held a regional interactive community voice forum for representatives of seldom heard groups. Over 50 organisations attended additional workshops were offered to deaf and visually impaired forums. Importantly every year through our annual stakeholder survey, most recently held between September 2023 and February 2024. We consult widely with representative stakeholders in our communities on the contents and relevance of our corporate plan objectives, particularly around the issues of quality and fairness. The latest stakeholder survey results will be included in our July reports at County Council. Following the changes to the corporate plan earlier this year, we closed what was the fairest say for more equal board and we enhanced the remit of the strategic equality and diversity group to include oversight of all equality and diversity matters. The group takes a key role in agreeing the content of the statutory public sector equality duty and gender pay gap reports. It considers dentishes position in relation to Welsh governments various equality plans and considers and reviews the quality of wellbeing impact assessments and more recently arranged for the WLGA to provide a quality and diversity training for members. The message from engagement work carried out at local regional and national levels is that we need to improve in terms of involving people and the decisions that affect their lives and communities and work to reduce deprivation. We are already making progress in these areas, particularly in relation to social care and community support services. In our corporate plan, we made a range of pledges to improve, for example, attainment, economic outcomes, housing, community cohesion, etc. And we also made a pledge to strengthen our engagement with people with protected characteristics, those experienced social economic disadvantage and those who may experience discrimination or disadvantage. And this is included under what is theme six, a well-run high-performing council. So this end we have developed on the strategic equality and diversity group will be approving the collation of a comprehensive list of organisations that support people with protected characteristics or those living with social economic disadvantage in the county, including seldom-beared groups. Additional contacts have been imported to the list from resources including the North Wales Public Sector Equality Network, the Conway and Temperature Community Safety Partnership and DVSC. And we will review this list annually. Using this contact list will help us to strengthen our engagement and communication work and ensuring more equal outcomes for people, including reducing inequalities associated with poverty. The list will all be available from the Communications and Marketing Dean in the Council, available on our Denvershire County Council website and available to our partners in order to undertake equality engagements. The well-run high-performing board will also be evaluating its current work streams to ensure we maximise our contribution to this pledge. Thank you. Thank you very much, Julie. Mr. Gonzales, do you have a supplementary question? I do, and thank you for the answer. Very comprehensive. My follow-up question. Yeah, so I'm happy to hear the Council's commitment to equality. I'm a member of the Community Group called Pristatin's Voices for Peace, and on May 1st, on May 1st this year, one of our members emailed you directly asking, sorry, I'm addressing this to the Cabinet Chair if possible, if not possible, then that's fine. I, so one of our members of our team, they emailed you directly asking if you would fly the Palestinian flag on May 15th, which is tomorrow, which is also known as the Nakur day. And that means catastrophe in Arabic, which refers to the master's placement and dispossession of Palestinians in 1948. The Denbyshire County Council's constitution says that you, as leader of the Council, have the authority to give instructions for flying flags on the Council officers and lighting up of Denbyshire National buildings on significant occasions. My colleague received a response this morning from one of the Council officers saying that you will not be flying the Palestinian flag as it's against the Council's flag flying policy. However, this has been done before, though, in support of oppressed people in other parts of the world. So you let the buildings up for Black Lives Matter in 2020. In 2022, you flew the Ukrainian flag and lit up buildings. So I'm asking you publicly today, as you say, you are so committed to equality, will you demonstrate the equality that equality and authorize the flying of the Palestinian flag on Denbyshire's major buildings and light up Denbyshire leisure building in the colors of the Palestinian flag, as you've done for other oppressed people. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Gonzalez. Thank you very much for the supplementary question. We will provide a written response as soon as possible. Thank you. Thank you, Julie. Thank you very much for that question and answers. Thank you, Councillors. Right. I shall move on now to item six on the agenda, the minutes of the meeting held on the 27th of February 2024. I shall go through them for accuracy first, please. Page seven, my list. Page eight. Page nine. Page 10. Page 11. Page 12. Page 13. Page 14. Page 15. Can somebody propose those minutes are correct, please mark someone second. Alan, all in favor. Thank you very much. I shall sign the minutes of the meeting then. I shall now go back through the minutes for matters arising. Page seven. Page eight. Page nine. Page 10. Page 11. Page 12. Page 13. Looking. Page 14. Page 15. Right. Stop. Nope. That's it. Thank you very much. Excellent. Well done. Took an hour last time. Thank you. Item seven on the agenda is now the pay policy statement. And I believe the lead member of finance performs a chief of assets counselor Gwyneth Ellis and the head of corporate service. Aftering Roberts will give us a view on this and I think Sophie Vaughn is also present somewhere. Thank you. On remote. Thank you, Gary. You ready, Gwyneth? Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. So, in the localism act 2011, we have a duty to publish policy statement. This presents our latest policy to you and asks you for your approval to publish it in accordance with the act. You will see that this policy does not set pay grade because they are set nationally, usually. And some of these haven't been agreed yet for this year. The report sets the relativity between the difference may grades within the council and the relation, which is interesting. We are comfortable. Completely within what is acceptable. This is a technical document and there are offices here to go through the details and answer questions as necessary. Catherine Roberts, who's head of corporate support service and Sophie Vaughn. The responsible officer from the HR development is also online. Thank you, Chair. Good morning. This policy relates to the council. This report relates to the council's pay policy. Now, the pay policy itself is a summary of all the council's policy that relates to pay. These are policies which have been agreed over a period of time and provide a summary of the key points of each of those within the documents. It also includes information regarding the remuneration of chief offices to include the publication and access to information on remuneration. Remuneration of lower paid employees and also the relationship between the remuneration of chief offices and other employees. Now, the document itself is updated on an annual basis and approved by full council before being published on our website. This year, there has been very little change to the document itself. It has been updated with the national pay awards for 2324 for all staff, including chief offices. The pay relativities have been updated in paragraph 7.4, which show that the chief executive's salary is 6.5 times the lowest paid employee salary. That the average chief officer's salary is 4.4 times the lower paid employee. That the chief officer's salary is 5.1 times the average salary of all employees, and that the average chief officer's salary is 3.5 times the average salary of all employees. The requirement is that no public sector manager can earn more than 20 times the lowest paid person in the organization. So in that respect, our relativities are well within that figure. You'll see in the policy that the financial context of the council has been updated in paragraph 1.3 to reflect the current position. And we've also included the terms of reference for the senior leadership remuneration panel as well. Now in accordance with the governance process, the senior remuneration panel have considered the pay policy and make recommendation to full council for approval. Copy of the full documentation is attached in the reports and I would be happy to take any questions. Thank you. Any questions? Martin? Thanks, Chair. I noticed in the wellbeing impact assessment, the sustainability of the approach was, I think, 2 out of 4 stars, 1936. Can you explain a little bit more about what that means exactly? And also that several committee meetings over the course of the last year, we heard how recruitment is a real challenge across many areas, many services in the council. How does this policy impact recruitment? Does it impact it more in certain services or the same across all services? It does mention that this is, the policy is there to enable us to attract, motivate and retain appropriately talented people. So presumably it is having an impact on recruitment. Thank you. In terms of recruitment and attention, I think the pay policy and all the supporting policies are absolutely key for that. It ensures that we have a process by which we look at our requirements within job descriptions, within job groups, et cetera, and make sure that we are paying the correct salary for those roles and to make sure that we look at how that then prepares with the organisations as well. I think the difficulty is now that there are key sort of groups of staff that we do struggle to recruit and retain. And we have done, I think, as much as we can in terms of basic pay to make sure that's, you know, that's that we're paying as much as we can within our current policies and procedures. We can always then compare with private and external sectors. We have got other policies that we can use in certain cases. There's things like the market settlement policy, but the reality is that's not a sustainable answer to address pay in certain categories of staff. So, generally, as I say, the pay policy and the supporting policies do help towards recruitment and retention, make sure we've got the right sort of terms and conditions and we're paying the right amounts. But we don't always, it doesn't always compare with external external sector. So, we've gone as far as we can in certain sectors. I think if for some areas it requires a much wider holistic view in terms of what we do, which some of that is beyond our control because we do have national pay, scales, pay awards, et cetera. And in terms of the impact assessment, the sustainability score being two stars out of four, is that something we should be concerned about? I think overall the wellbeing assessment is showing that we've, you know, our policies are fair. They do support across the quality sector. It supports them because each of our categories. There's no concern from our perspective in terms of the wellbeing assessment. It's something that we do look at every year in terms of our annual pay policy. It's something that we look at when we look at individual policies, which is where the crux of the documents or the information is. So no, we don't have any concerns and that perspective. Thank you. I have no more hands up. Do you want to go through the recommendations? Sorry. Didn't see my. No, no, no, I was being quiet. No problem. Thank you chair and for looking your next year coming and thanks for that. So obviously talk about wages, although we have to approve it. That's done by other people. But I do want to ask about the affordability because in the document to talk about the financial position. So the increase. Is that being budgeted in or was that work for the future? And we're in a meeting recently from the office and the amount of people leaving was quite a shock with us going to be where we are in the future, but the teams are going to be doing more. So the job evaluation is going to be an impact there, I would get. So if you've got a smaller team, they're going to be doing more. So we'll have an impact on the evaluation and paying them on. Has that been costed into the future budget? Thank you. So just the first part of your question, I'll address that. So you'll be aware of the midterm financial plans and strategy and pay rises and pay increase have been factored into that. So yes, it has been where it will be budgeted for as we move forwards. Of course, we, you know, these plans and strategies for the future are bictions, so they can be wrong. We don't know, but so far they've been proved to be quite correct if you look back and now it's gone. But yes, they have been budgeted for. Thank you. Catherine will address the second part of your question. Yeah, in terms of recent changes and the majority are as a result of the voluntary exit scheme that we've ran. I think the key points when those applications have been considered is that the council or the service have to demonstrate what changes are actually going to happen. And I think we've been upfront from the beginning that it can't be a case of we let one person go and then but we still expect the same level of service. So that's not to say that some of the services haven't done some changes which might have impacted on job descriptions, etc. Where them. I'm not saying there have been increases, but if there were increases, then they would have been taken into account when we were considering the business case and identifying the savings per person that was leaving. So any savings that we've identified would have taken into account the need for any additional cost across the board. But I would just stress really that when we've considered this scheme or when we were implementing this scheme, we were very clear with with managers with heads with heads of service with trade unions that it couldn't be that we still deliver that same level of service something has to change. And that's that's on the basis by which the applications have been agreed. Just just really quickly on that one. And if you want to talk about the finances, obviously what you just described, but she's on the wellbeing of that team. So you're talking about thank you for that response. Thank you. Great. And would I just say a few words. Thank you just briefly. Take the opportunity. I think the question has been well answered. I think that's cancer and lead members from the chief ex perspective, it's a more broader point, but I think it's related to your question mark. So thanks for the question. And it needs to be clear to all members and members of the public. You know, if we've got a team of six doing work and that team of six reduces because of a redundancy or we don't feel a gaps or moves on and we've got a vacancy and decide not to build that vacancy. And that team of six becomes a team of five. We can't expect that team of five to do the work of a team of six. So something's enough to give somewhere along the line. And that might be something isn't done or something takes longer to be done or we do something in a slightly different way. And that's part of something that we're going to have to adapt to a little bit in terms of expectations about what we can do given that the size of some of our teams are getting smaller in order to respond to the financial pressures that were under. So it's a good question mark and obviously at the heart of that is the, you know, the safety and the well being of staff as well. So I thank you for the question. Thank you, Graham. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. Okay, I've no more answer this time. Well, if you want to go through your recommendations, please. Sure. So the recommendations, there are two of them. First of all, that the full council accept the recommendation from the senior leadership remuneration panel and approve the paper policy for 2024 25, which is the copy and appendix a. And secondly, that the council confirms that it has read and understood and taken account of the well being assessment in appendix B as part of its consideration. Thank you, Chair. Go this way. Thank you. That seems to unanimous is no dissensions, no against. No, thank you. Well done. Item eight on my list is the annual review of political balance and appointment of recruiting chairs, which is a head of corporate service, catching and it's joined by Steve price. Steve's going to do an example by looks of it. The one Steve. I think this is a fairly light touch or potentially, it just needs me, but. That's an ingrained production pin if it gets complicated. So the council is required to consider at least annually, how the membership of its committees relates to the size of the groups. As the new municipal year starts now starts in May with this meeting. It's appropriate for the council to now consider the current political balance position. From paragraph 4.4, the report covers the vacancy for a county council on Dempshire standards committee. The seat is not subject to political balance rules, so it is not offered to any particular group. It was just felt that this was a good vehicle. This report was a good vehicle to bring the to ask for the decision of council today. The council is therefore requested to point a county councilor to the standards committee to join counselor Bobby Fealy, and this is shown in recommendation 3.2. From paragraph 4.7, the report outlines how the scrutiny chairs are allocated. There are no actions for council today in respect of the appointment of scrutiny chairs, their information only, but as they are a little bit different from from the usual and members often interested to see how they works that they usually included in this annual report. Finally, from each other, the penalties contain detailed summaries of the political balance position and the membership of the committee is happy to take any question. Steve. Any questions for Steve? Oh, sir. Madam, go on. Yeah, it was interesting to see that we used to have a politically balanced cabinet until February 2019, when on the advice of the governance and audit committee. We removed that requirement from the constitution. Reading back on that, that was to enable the leaders to be able to better select a cabinet. It's interesting as well that temperature was it was the only council in Wales, I believe that had a politically balanced cabinet. I did notice as well on that report, there wasn't a well-being impact assessment done, and I just wanted to know if any members or officers who had experienced the time before and the time after, whether there was any noticeable impact from changing to a cabinet that didn't have to be politically balanced. Thank you for the question, Martin. I'm just not correct, but slightly explain the situation. The previous version of the constitution required whoever was the leader to have regard to the principles of political balance because by law, the executive arrangements are not politically balanced doesn't mean you can't choose to make them so. However, the cabinet was never politically balanced. Whoever was the leader had to have regard to the principles of political balance, but not every group took up seats on the cabinet, therefore it wasn't politically balanced. A motion was brought to council in the last council by a member of a non-cabinet group requesting a change in the constitution to allow the leader, if you like, free reign to be able to appoint whoever they wanted to cabinet. That was then referred to the governance and audit committee to take a view. They made a recommendation back to council and council made the decision so effectively, we're now in line with the vast majority of local authorities, which is that the cabinet is appointed by whoever is the leader at the time. And there's no requirement for them to consider political balance because there is no requirement in law for the executive to be politically balanced. In terms of well being impact assessment, there wouldn't be a well being impact assessment with this report because it's not something new that we're seeking to change this is just a technical report that comes to inform members of the state of play in terms of political balance across the council. I can't remember whether a well being impact assessment was taken before, all I can say from an office perspective is that, however, cabinet has been constituted. I've always felt that my well being has been well taken care of by whoever's on. Thank you. Thank you. There's no one else with a hand. Do we need to appoint that that 32 before we go to the full recommendations. Do you want to leave me in? Yes, I think that's the main pattern. 3.1 is kind of the report and to be noted that's been done so it's the standards committee appointment, please. Sorry. Okay. And do we have any. Oh, Martin again. Yeah, me again. Sorry. Yeah, I was going to nominate a councillor John Harland to be a member of the stands committee. I believe John can offer. They're an impartial judgment on issues relating to the standards of conduct by elected members in local governments and make a good addition to this committee. So we've got a seconder. Go ahead. I'll second that one then. Thank you. Any other nominations. Thank you. And I'd like to. Sorry. I'd like to nominate Councillor. Tom is an angry as I for detail and absolute integrity in the way that she goes through the paperwork. She's a bad reading port member. I grouping that she brings that information in a digestible way. And I think we'll be able to put the scrutiny needed on this committee going forward. So I propose Andrea, please. Thank you. Do we have a seconder for Andrea Karen. Thank you Karen. Any other nominations. Okay, I think we have to explain. You do it Gary. Okay, thank you chair. Because this is a hybrid meeting because the zoom poll function doesn't always work appropriately and propose that would just take a roll call and just ask for people to indicate the person that they would be supporting. I will record that for each member, and then I'll give the numbers to the chair to announce the results. Okay, Chair. So if I call out everybody's name in alphabetical order, and if you could just say the name of the candidate that you would wish to vote for, please. So I'll begin with Council Michelle Blakely Walker. Councillor John Butterfield. Councillor Jeanette Chamberlain Jones. Councillor Ellie Chad. Councillor John Harland. Councillor Kelly Cluit. Councillor John Harland. Can Horridane Davis. Councillor John Harland. Councillor Edwards. Councillor Tomlin. Councillor 14 Edwards. Councillor Tomlin. Councillor Green Thales. Councillor John Harland. Councillor John Harland. Councillor Tomlin. Councillor Chris Evans. Thank you. Oh, I think he was here. Okay. Councillor Harland. Councillor Justine Evans. Councillor Tomlin. Councillor Bobbie Fieldy. Councillor Andrea Tomlin. Councillor German. Councillor John Harland. Councillor Harland. Councillor John Harland. Here, Councillor Hilditch Roberts. Councillor Tomlin. Councillor Martin Hogg. Councillor Carroll Holliday. Councillor Holland. Here, Councillor John Harland. Councillor Brien Jones. Councillor Tomlin. Councillor Daelith Jones. Councillor Holland. Here, Councillor Dairn King. Councillor John Harland. Councillor John Harland. Councillor John Harland. Councillor James May. Councillor Austin. Councillor Holland. Councillor Harland. Councillor Mandy. Councillor Henry Tomlin. Councillor Mactree is not here. Councillor John Harland. Councillor Harland. Councillor John Harland. Councillor Tomlin. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Thank you very much, Councillors, so the vote has gone 25 votes for Councillor John Harland, 16 votes for Councillor Andrea Tomlinson, so Councillor John Harland is duly elected to that committee. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. Councillor JOHN Holland. 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