Transcript

Can I welcome everyone to Licensing Subcommittee B? Please can I ask everyone to keep their microphones muted, and somebody's microphone is not muted at the moment. Thank you. When it's your turn to speak, please mute your microphone. When it's your turn to speak, you turn it on and then turn it back off. Okay? If you wish to speak at any other time, if you can find your raise hand facility, use it. If not, you know, wave at the screen and we'll spot you at a small meeting today. My name is Councillor Anne-Marie Cousins, and I'm chairing this subcommittee. Also on the subcommittee are my two other councillor colleagues. We've got Odette Magahi, she waves, and we've got Roger Tester. So good morning to you all. We have also got a legal advisor who is Felix Keating. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, thank you. And the clerk to the meeting is Daniel Wilkinson, that's already been addressing us. First of all, let me go through some of the housekeeping items, the initial items on the agenda. So I have not received any apologies. Officer Wilkinson, do you want to confirm that? We have no apologies. We're all here, chair. Thank you. I have not received any urgent business. And does any of the councillor members, councillor Magahi and Tester, do you have anything to declare for this meeting? I certainly don't. I don't. Okay, thank you. That's no declarations of interest. And moving on to item four, the previous minutes, will that be okay for me to sign them when I'm next in the office? Yes. We agree the minutes, councillors? Yes. Thank you. I think I'm hearing, nodding. Sorry, I'm looking at the script, not the screen. Okay, so we're here this morning to hear the case of Rupert and Teddy, Unit A, 32 Horse Ferry Place, which is in Greenwich, SE 1090F. So if anybody's in the wrong meeting, this is the time to leave, but hopefully we're here for this one. And let's just check that we have who we need here as well. The applicant is Laura. Laura, you're there in a trio, okay? Laura Schindler. And just to, sorry, Shanida. And just to check, are your companions going to speak or what's the setup there? Okay. Yes, James is also my partner, so yes, if possible. Yeah. There are timing restrictions, you see, so you need to be clear who is saying what and try not to just repeat the same things, yeah? Absolutely. Sure. Thank you. Just to highlight that the postcode is wrong, that you've just... I said SE 1090F. Yeah, 9HG, 9HG. Thank you very much. Our couple make those amendments and the legal advisor. Thank you. Okay, and we have only, in terms of a councillor making representation, and that's just yourself, isn't it, councillor Anning? Yes, that's right. Lovely. We don't have a Tom Rigby, and we don't have a Annetta James. Okay. Can I confirm that everyone received their gender pack and are ready? Thank you very much. Now, let me just draw everyone's attention. I sort of touched on it a little bit. There are time limitations, technically sort of 15 minutes per side, where, so 15, so in terms of, it's not 15 minutes per person, just to make that clear, because I think sometimes it's misunderstood when we say there's a 15-minute time limit. Okay? So really watch your timings on this. So, to get us started, if we can have our licensing officer manager, Jane, you're going to give us the outline of the report, aren't you? Yeah, sure. Lovely. Thank you very much. Over to the licensing manager, Jane Dyer. Thank you. Thank you. The subcommittees requested to consider the application made by Rupert & Teddy Limited for the grants of a premises licence in relation to Rupert & Teddy, Unit A 32, Horse Ferry Place, SE 10, as set out in Appendix A, and the premises plan, which is set out in Appendix B. When considering the application to grant the premises licence, members must have due regard to the representations made and take steps as it considers a proportionate and reasonable for the promotion of the licensing objectives. And it's open to the licensing authority to grant the application, together with such conditions as are consistent with the operating schedule, impose additional conditions on the licence, or refuse the application on the grounds that refusal is appropriate for the promotion of the licensing objectives. I'll just go through the application. The original application requested was for the supply of alcohol and recorded music, and the opening hours as well, from Monday to Sunday, from 0700 hours to 23, 2300 hours. And after receipt of relevant representations, the applicant amended the hours for licensable activities, agreement to which is set out at Appendix A, and are as follows. And it's for the supply of alcohol and recorded music, Monday to Sunday, from 100 hours to 1900 hours, with closing hours of 0800 hours to 1900 hours. The Council may impose conditions on the licence that are consistent with those offered in the applicant's operating schedule, and these are outlined at 2.2 of the report. In terms of the premises, the premises haven't been previously licensed, and they are situated on the ground floor of a building facing the river, approximately 200 metres from the Cutty Sark, with commercial space within, and a nine-storey mixed-use development with residential properties, nine-storey, nine-storey of residential properties above. The premises proposed to operate as a delicatation shop and a restaurant and bar. They're situated on the edge of the New Capital Key Estates in Greenwich, which is just to the west of Greenwich Town Centre. And as previously mentioned, the premises are in the Greenwich Town Centre Cumulative Impact Zone. And the map of the premises is set out at Appendix D. And if we can just go through the PowerPoint presentation, please, Daniel. Yeah, that's just the first screen saying what it is. Shall we go on to the next one? Can it be my... Oh, yeah. Yeah. And there's the red arrow showing where Rupert and Teddy is on the location of the premises on the map. And there's another aerial photograph or picture of where Rupert and Teddy is situated. Can you go on to the next one? And that's just to show you where the licensed premises or some of the licensed premises are in the area. Like the waitrose always to capture sail loft and the gate clock. Just to give you some idea. That's a view of the front of the premises from the Thames Path. And that's a view from outside the premises looking west along the Thames Path towards the sail loft. And that's a view from outside of the premises looking east along the Thames Path towards the Cussey Sark and Grange Town Centre. And so view from the front of the premises looking directly across the Thames Path towards the river. And that's a view alongside the premises looking south along Horsbury Place towards Creek Road. And that's a view of the premise from the opposite side of Horsbury Place. And this is a view along Horsbury Place towards the river with the premises. It's got a red arrow pointing at the premises. And that's a copy of the blue notice that's displayed on the premises. Thanks, Daniel. Just to say there are three representations. The representation raised by the councillors are attached to Appendix C and are predominantly concerned with the sale of alcohol consumption off the premises. And the licensing objectives are the prevention of crime and disorder and prevention of public nuisance and some public safety. And as it may contribute to the crime and disorder in the area along the Thames footpaths. And the other person representation is set out at Appendix F and is concerned with the licensing objective of the prevention of public nuisance. And that the on sales operation of the premises may disturb the residents who live above the premises. And that's the end of my presentation. Thank you. Any questions? No questions. OK, thank you. Let me um sorry, chair, we can't hear you now. Daniel, are you able to help us out here? I can hear you now we can here you now. Oh what on earth happened there, OK, sorry about that, I've no idea what happened for me James me jane sorry you disappeared towards the end but you were just finishing what you were saying yeah okay can i go to my councillor colleagues then and ask whether or not they have any questions thank you so um officer um sorry councillor um oh did you have any questions of the officer no not of the officer no thank you um um councillor tester roger tester any questions no questions okay then lovely well thank you very much for um that i think was fairly straightforward um presentation let me um um let me go to laura you've heard the you know the application laid out um now is it going to be yourself or james you're saying that's going to you know explain your applicant present from your perspective your application i leave this to james lucky me okay okay thank you you'd like me to speak now yes please yeah it's your turn now thank you okay so obviously we've applied for the license it's been um contested first of all by um tom from ellen queue upstairs i'd like to first of all say that i they are our landlords um and that we have not had any any his representation is causing nuisance to our immediate neighbors um but we have not had any complaints or um you know um objections to the license from any residents that live upstairs there was one which has since been rescinded so i don't really think that his um his representation is valid the second one with callum um and then obviously the the third one is just agreeing with what callum said um we are planning on opening a high-end delicatessen and restaurants um the uh products we're going to be selling are not the sort of products that you'd find for example in waitrose so when you go to waitrose you can which is within a 30 second walk from our proposed shop where the licenses are um you can buy four cans of stella for example for five pounds we're going to be selling cans of beer for five pounds each um the bottles of wine we're going to sell are going to average between 30 and 50 pounds it's not the kind of place that's going to attract people to going to come to buy alcohol to drink on the street outside the shop that's not the kind of market that we're going for um obviously with our application i feel that we've met all four of the licensing objectives and mitigated our risk to the community um callum has pointed out in his um in his complaint that there's a lot of problems along the thames path with drug taking and and street drinking um as i said um it's unfortunate the shop is right next door to that that basketball court but i don't feel and none of us do that we are going to be of interest to people that he has concern about um so yeah i mean other than that is there anything else you'd like me to add um well i i think no i think maybe if you just um i will let my colleagues come in but maybe from your perspective and to ensure that you're you're hearing how you will be managing to make sure um that um you do meet the lighting licensing objectives i mean we're aware that you've got specifically things like that but maybe well i'm actually um quite well known in the area in greenwich as well um i used to manage both the juke pub on creek road and um the crown on trafalgar road so i've been managing um businesses within greenwich for quite some time um for a different company um which both of those sites now belong to different companies um the the crown on trafalgar road particularly when i first took over there had a an issue um with lots of sort of drug taking in the area and i've managed to get all of that out um so yeah i i we're very responsible people that know what we're doing when it comes to dealing with alcohol and dealing with problematic people um especially in that area so yeah it's not that we are without experience excellent that's a good point to raise yeah and um yeah councillor uh magahi did you have a question you look like you did yes i do um so um okay so as you know you're in a cumulative impact zone and we're also in an era of people meeting online sorry amory could you mute a minute thank you thanks uh people meeting online and going for blind dates with people they don't know um would you would you agree to us adding to the license that you have to join the ask angela training scheme and train all your staff absolutely i'm i'm very well aware of the ask angela um i as i said i've been running public houses for a long time so that's something i'm very well aware of what i would say about the license for us is that we're only planning to be open until seven o'clock at night um it's unusual that the sort of the dates that you're concerned about people going on dates would be in the afternoon um well maybe i'm wrong i probably am but i do apologize but yes of course we'd be more than happy to to join the ask angela scheme thank you yeah i have to unmute now i know uh thanks uh i was saying thank you for that um councillor magahi and um councillor roger tester did you have a question yes thanks yeah um just just to clarify um james so the only alcohol that you're going to be selling on the premises of what you just described as high end so that you won't you won't be selling any any cheaper types of alcohol because uh just the concerns raised by the what by the local councillors were you know obviously people coming and picking up drinks to take and walk around the area with um so yeah can you just clarify that that's the only type of alcohol that you'll be serving um yeah so as i said we are only going to be selling like craft beer um we our supplier only supply craft beer like i said they work out about five pounds but we have no interest in doing buy one get more free alcohol or anything like that kind of thing um we would look to sell spirits but they are going to be more sort of top-end whiskies and brandies rather than sort of cheap vodka you know we're we're looking for premium brands to sell not bottom end brands um we've we've partnered with for example a company called guzbourne um they sell top-end english wines and we're going to be a supplier for them um and as i said everything is kind of high-end and bespoke we're not looking to be an off license um that you know typical sort of street off license where you go in and get like a strong bottle of cider for next to nothing that's not our ethos and definitely not what we're trying to achieve thank you that's great anything else that's it is that it for my councillor members yeah lovely thank you very much okay what we'll do did you nothing else to say at this moment if you continue listening then um james towards the end you can come back so make any notes if anything crops up if you feel you need to say we're now going to move over to councillor majella annin who's representing her constituents thank you so over to you now thank you chair our concern um and first concern was the opening hours and that's now been resolved uh and our second concern was about selling open containers of alcohol so that would be you know glasses of alcohol or plastic glasses of alcohol to take away etc um so i just wondered i i understand um uh the applicant's uh statement about the fact that they will be selling high-end alcohol but how um would they be would they be supplying uh open containers of alcohol to take away is that sort of something that they might um consider i know that i that is actually allowed in the in the license so i imagine they don't envisage that but i just i that would be my one question and um and i'm uh otherwise satisfied thanks okay lovely that was short and sweet thank you so if you can directly answer that then please james if you're still representing the group there absolutely yeah we don't have any intention of selling open container alcohol the idea is to be if you go to a delicatessen and you buy a bottle of wine to take home and enjoy it's not the kind of alcohol that you would take away and drink outside it's something for you to take home as a special gift or a special treat not as um yeah definitely the answer is no we won't be looking to sell any open container alcohol okay but let me just um build on that a little bit please james if i may it from the reading the paperwork are you going to operate like a little restaurant or something like that an eating option exactly yes exactly yes but um the eating option if people were to have alcohol eating would be that they would drink the alcohol with their food it wouldn't be to then take it away we will be selling out food to take away um but that's it's aimed at the local people that live in the flats nearby to pick up their food on the way home from work it's not to come and buy something to then go and sit on a bench and eat this that isn't the ethos of what we're trying to achieve right okay um lovely that's great does those questions raise any other questions for my colleagues sorry about the sound feedback i can hear it as well no okay lovely anything else um in terms of a general few minutes because we actually progressed very well on timing now that anybody wanted to say um let me start with the james laura jason box i kind of like that did anything else you wanted to you think you wanted to say at all james oh no i think we've covered everything um if you're happy with what we've we've said yeah um councillor colleagues we're happy it seems yeah yeah okay then lovely and just uh magela that's fine you don't want to come back with anything else do you i would like to just add one thing chair and after having heard the applicant and the style of uh premises that they're planning et cetera um and their and their assurances i'm very assured and in fact uh having considered what they've said i would say that this will actually um contribute to a a um more peaceful um thames path uh atmosphere because you have a high-end um establishment there at least presumably for lunch times and and afternoon um afternoon drinking and and eating so i think um having heard all the details that this would actually contribute to the safety of the area hopefully um and not um and not take away from it so i'm i'm very reassured that is great i don't know how many license and committees i've sat on neither was chair or one of the the wingers and i think it's the first time i've had a an object um uh that that's um said something like that so that that's good to know and possibly make our job a little bit easier as well okay lovely um that will um conclude this hearing um for this morning we which is um myself and my other two counselors tester and um magahi we will go in private now to deliberate on what we've heard and a full decision will be sent out within five working days and if anyone wish to object to the decision they must do so within 21 days all that will be confirmed um in the email that's that sent out so thank you all very much for your time have a wonderful day and look out for the decision as soon as possible thank you thank you bye-bye bye-bye bye-bye