Transcript

Good afternoon and welcome to the licensing subcommittee meeting. My name is councillor Shugua Hussain and I am the chair of the licensing subcommittee. The meeting is being held in person. Committee members and key participants are presenting in the meeting room and there may be some joining remotely online today. This meeting will be filmed for the council's website and it will be available for public viewing. I remind members at the meeting to only speak on my direction and to speak clearly into the microphones to ensure that the contributions can be properly recorded. Now can members and officers please introduce themselves. Can I start with the members please? Thank you chair. My name is councillor Shugua Hussain, I represent speed of trees in Barnatown Wood. Do we have any apologies? Could the officers... Sorry, we did have an apology to councillor Peter Gors but we've got councillor Shugua Hussain who's standing in. Thank you. Can the members now introduce themselves please? Corinne Holland, Licensing Officer. Corinne Holland, Licensing Officer. Simi Yasmin, Democratic Services. David Wong from Legal Services, providing legal advice to the councillors. Honour O'Leary from Environmental Protection Team. I'm Cathy Driver, I'm from Licensing and I'm here for the second application chair. Do any of the members have any declarations of disclosable pecuniary interests? No chair. Now can the members please note the rules of procedure on pages 9 to 18 of the agenda? Yeah. Yep. Okay. And can the members please note and agree the minutes of the meeting held on the 21st of January 2025? Yep. Okay. Thank you. Before we start, could we rejig the order of the applications today please? Sure chair. I believe we are varying the order of business to HIG item 4.3 first. Chair, for this application we have Ms Stephanie Hayward here and Mr Keenan Barley the applicant present. And I believe they have a submission to make. Good afternoon chair. I'm Stephanie Hayden. I'm General Counsel for UK Full Depot Limited. I'm Mr Keenan Barley who's the applicant for the Fabwick licence in Hackney Wick. Chair, it's my application this afternoon to adjourn consideration of our application under Regulation 12. Um, my client is not in a position to proceed today. If I may briefly address the reasons for that chair. Thank you. I'm grateful. Um, when the application was submitted in January this year there were a number of initial objections raised, including by the police and by the licensing authority in relation to public nuisance and specifically noise and the impact of that potential noise. There was discussions between the parties during January and February. And whilst, um, there's been a degree of cooperation and compromise between the police and my client resulting in the police withdrawing their objection, although they do specify certain conditions. The position that we are in today with regards to the licensing authority objection regarding noise is this. My client in good faith, um, commissioned a noise impact assessment from an individual that my client believed was qualified to provide that assessment. Unfortunately, chair, that person was not qualified to provide that assessment. And the report that was prepared on my client's behalf and submitted to the authority was, to put no too fine word about it, defective. That was brought to the attention of my client. And the circumstances are outlined in the supplementary agenda, which was filed, um, two days ago by the licensing authority. And they set out the concerns that they have. But the position is this. A new noise impact assessment, which is compliant and prepared by a qualified person, is needed. It's needed for my client's benefit and it's needed for the benefit of this committee to properly consider the objection. And indeed it may well be, subject to what is in a compliant report, that work between the applicant and the objector will mean that that objection potentially falls away. So in those circumstances, chair, I invite, um, the committee to exercise its power under Regulation 12 to adjourn the application. I understand from democratic services that it would be for a period of approximately two months due to the logistics, uh, that the council face this time of year. Uh, my client would, would be content with that. And if chair, you are with me on that submission, it would be the case that we would return. Or even, it may well be that the parties can work together to make that objection eventually fall away. But if not, we would return in two months' time with a compliant report, with the necessary site visits. And my applicant, my applicant client will not be prejudiced. Uh, in my submission, it is one of those occasions where it is in the public interest that the adjournment be allowed. Um, this deficiency in the report is not as a result of my client's behaviour. And chair, unless I can be of any further assistance on that matter, those are my submissions. Thank you. Could we now get the views of the offices, please? Yeah, no objection to that. Um, chair, I think the only consideration from the licensing authorities concerned, is not necessarily against the adjournment, but obviously the concern that the licensing authority has, in terms of its current trading, and obviously in, in terms of my representation, of the manner in which they have been trading since November, and potentially up to today, is that already the premises are operating as a, should be operating as a restaurant, and it, and it hasn't been since a number of visits. So, it may be that the chair might wish to consider that as part of, uh, considering the adjournment. Could I ask for the views of the police, please? Online. Hi, good afternoon committee chair. Um, just a quick introduction. My name's PC Jamie Stanley. I'm, I'm currently covering, um, at this committee for my colleague PC Wells, who's actually been dealing, um, with this application, uh, admittedly has a better understanding of it, has had a better dialogue with the applicants. Um, so it's of my opinion that we're not in, I'm not going to, I'm not going to oppose an adjournment. Uh, thank you chair. Um, I'm a bit, um, confused on, uh, making the, um, correct decision. Um, or perhaps, uh, thank you. Uh, what we'll do is we'll adjourn the meeting for two minutes, and we will be back in the room. Thank you. I'm so sorry. I think I should look to the right. That's okay. Um, obviously, um, Miss Hayden, is it? You, you said in your submission that the police had withdrawn their representation. The police have not withdrawn their representation at this stage. It currently still stands. No, let me clarify. I did not say that. I said they'd withdrawn their objection, subject to various conditions which had been agreed, uh, primarily between my client and the police. Uh, they do not actually object to the samples and copied to me two days, two or three days ago. So, that is what I said. Well, the, obviously, the representation still stands, and, uh, a supplementary representation was sent in yesterday from Kieran Wells. So, but although that is, uh, amending conditions, technically the representation still stands. Thank you for your patience, everyone. Um, myself and the members have had our chat, um, and we have agreed to adjourn. Um, Simi from Democratic Services will be in contact, but we cannot guarantee when it's going to be. Uh, there's a current backlog. Should I say you're good to go? So, now we're going to be hearing from, uh, application for a new premises licence for Fresh Feast, 44 Artillery Lane, London E1 7 LS. Um, and Simi to announce those in attendance. Thank you, Chair. Um, for this item, we've got the applicant Yang Liu at present. Um, those that have made representation is, uh, Mr O'Leary, who's the Environmental Health Officer. Um, after the application has been presented, the applicant will be invited to speak, and you'll get a total of five minutes to make your representation. The objector will also have five minutes to make their representation. I'll let you know when you have one minute remaining. Please note that the subcommittee have read the agenda pack in advance. Thank you. Mr O'Leary is Yang Liu, and the persons who have made representations are, uh, Nicola Kadzow. Um, and Mr O'Leary is going to be speaking on behalf of Nicola Kadzow, who's the Environmental Health Officer. Um, present, please. Thank you, Chair. Um, this is an application for a new premise license for Fresh Feast of 44 Artillery Lane. A copy of the application is shown in Appendix 1 on page 40 to 60. The applicant has described the premises as, uh, the premises to operate over the ground floor and basement floors, uh, as a restaurant, um, with karaoke facility being in the basement. Um, the license of all activities and timings that have been applied for are the sale of alcohol for on-sales only, Monday to Thursday, 12 till 10pm, Friday to Saturday, 12 till 11pm, and Sunday, 12 till 10pm. Um, and then, um, um, regulated entertainment in the form of live and recorded music and anything of a similar description, uh, for indoors only, um, for the same timings. Uh, they've also applied for non-standard timings for an extra hour of British summer time and, uh, applied for New Year's Eve as well. The opening times of the premises will be Monday to Sunday, 9 till 11pm. There's just an error in the, in the report there, but it's corrected to 11pm. Um, photographs of the venue are shown in Appendix 2 on page 62. A site plan is in Appendix 3 on page 65. A map showing the vicinity of these premises are in Appendix 4 on page 66. Nearby licensed premises are in Appendix 5 on page, uh, 70. This hearing is required because a relevant representation has been made by the Environmental Protection Team. And that's in Appendix 6 on page 73. Um, on page 33 to 35 of the report in Section 6 are conditions that are volunteered by the applicant within the application. Um, on page 36 is conditions which have been agreed with the licensing authority. And also on the same page are conditions which have been agreed with by the police. Um, that's the report. Thank you, Chair. Uh, do members have any questions of the license officer? Oh. Can I now ask the applicant to present the applications? Uh, good afternoon, uh, my name is Yang Liu. I'm from, uh, Fresh Fist Limited and, uh, 44 artillery lane. And, uh, I just want to explain the, the, the nature of the operation of the core business model, which is, like, restaurant establishment rather than, uh, like, for, like, music, like, uh, nightclubs or private hire venue. Uh, we're more like a family-friendly dining experience, which, uh, the, the, the proposed of, uh, regulated entertainment is mainly, even, I put the application for live music. And, uh, the dining, uh, so more like a background music. So, I have, uh, bringing one of our speaker, which is just like this. It's not like, uh, uh, you know, the big, uh, loud 10-inch or 8-inch speaker with a subwoofer. It's, uh, the idea is because when we brought this speaker, the, the supplying thing is capable of, like, singing karaoke. So, we saw the capability of this speaker. Um, and also, we, uh, proposed to, uh, limit, uh, all the entertainment, like, live music instruments within the basement level. And also, the, the premises level, lessons within the basement level to keep, um, like, to prevent. Oh, sorry. This is a license application for Fresh Fist Hospitality Limited 44 at Larry Lane, London E17LS. Um, we consider the premises license application for Fresh Fist Hospitality Limited 44 at Larry Lane, London E17LS. We have to consider the impact of the licensing objectives, uh, particularly for environmental protection, the prevention of public nuisance, and the prevention of noise generated from within the premises or outside, to be causing disturbance to the people in the vicinity. Uh, consideration was also, consideration has, also has to be given to the fact that the premises is within break lane cumulative impact zone. Once the premises is proposing to operate within framework hours, the applicant has applied for regulated entertainment, record, that is, recorded music, live music, including karaoke. And consideration has to be given to the live music arts 2012, as amended. If the venue is licensed to sell alcohol for consumption on the premises, amplified music can take place between the hours of 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. 7 p.m. 7 days a week. Any noise conditions attached to the license with regards to the music would not apply during these hours. And particularly, consideration has to be given to the venue being in break lane cumulative impact zone. A noise sensitive premises. There are residential premises in close proximity to 44 at Larry Lane, London E17LS. In our view, the application assistance fails to comply with the objective of the Licensing Act 2003 relating to public nuisance for the following reasons. Noise breakout from the venue affecting the residents. Noise from access and egress to and from the venue including patrons outside the premises to smoke whilst the premises is in operation. In conclusion, environmental protection does not support application for fresh fish hospitality limited. There are, there is great likelihood of disturbance to the residential premises from the impact of additional footfall. The premises is in break lane cumulative impact zone. Thank you. What is the minimum capacity of the audience? Maximum capacity. Yeah, maximum and minimum. Maximum capacity. Yeah, maximum and minimum. So, maximum capacity will be like 60 people, 60 seats restaurant, so minimum will just like that. Canceler Alvin? Thank you, Joe. You heard your objective point of views. Have you got anything to defend the objections that currently have been raised? It's mainly the live music part for the karaoke is what I've learned. We only use a small speaker within the restaurants, mainly for the customer to entertain when they have dining. And that's more like enhanced experience for them that they can select the sound and sing, while their dining is not like a nightclub kind of style of operating. So in that case we could also have a designated smoking area within the alleyways, which is next to us, where we know the restaurants. Thank you. Could I ask, what's your understanding of the community impact assessment? From my understanding, it's mainly the noise and football. That's what we do. Just to follow up your question is, do you have any idea of CIZ? I had to look into that, like, when I did the application a couple of months ago and I didn't... So now moving on to concluding remarks. Could I get one minute from the objector? And then we'll go on to one minute to the applicant. You have one minute. Chair, our position still remains, you know, we believe it's going to be a nuisance today. You can turn the mic off. And could we get, um, concluding remarks from, uh, Mr. Yang Liu? I think I might need to, uh, learn a bit more about CID zones after... Thank you all for your contributions today. Thank you all for your contributions today. The subcommittee will deliberate in a private session after this meeting ends. And Simi from Democratic Services will send out the decisions to you all within five working days. Thank you. Um, now we're going to be, um, discussing the application for new premises license for Popular Pizza, 536 Commercial Road, London E10HY. And Simi will be announcing those who are in attendance. Thank you, Chair. For this application we have Mr. Usmani Ahmed, uh, Adil Sharif and Mohamed Sharif present for the, um, applicants. Could you just confirm who's, who, can you just confirm Mr. Ahmed? Okay. Um, Mr. Adil, um, Adil Sharif? Okay. And Mr. Mohamed Sharif. Perfect. Thank you. Um, those that have made representations, um, are Corin, Kathy Driver from Licensing, um, Mr. O'Leary from Environmental Health, and PC Jamie Stanley on behalf of, um, PC Karen Wills, who's online. Um, after the application has been presented, the applicant will be invited to speak and will be given a total of five minutes to make your representation. The objectives will also be given five minutes each to make their representation. I'll let each speaker know when you have one minute remaining. Thank you. Thank you. Shown in Appendix 1 on page 84. It should be noted that the applicant is in, is in the name of a company, um, but the applicant, applicant on the form is shown as a Mr. Usmani, um, Mr. It is Sunday, 11pm to 5am. And the opening times, these need to be confirmed as in the application it shows 11pm. Um, obviously I'm assuming they're open before 11pm. Uh, the site plan of the venue is included at Appendix 2 on page 102. Maps showing the, uh, location are in Appendix 3 on page 104. Photographs are in Appendix 4 on page 106 to 109. Representations have been received against this application, uh, from the Licensing Authority, and that's in Appendix 6 on page 113, page 10, page 136 to 138. There's also, um, the applicant's response to the, uh, to the responsible authority representation. Do members have any questions of the Licensing Officer? Okay. Now, can I now ask the applicant to present the application? You have five minutes. I take this opportunity to request to stay, to stay open until, uh, 5am. I'd like to initially express how important a late night license is for a pizza business. After being the manager of this business for quite a while now, it is evident that keeping the hours, um, open after 11pm does not allow the owner to gain any sort of profit. In fact, we have been seeing a loss ever since. The leaseholder has been since, has been here since six of another reason, the initial owner left after such short time after investing a lot of money. As you may be aware, all pizza shops in our area and other takeaways are open to times such as 4am. For example, Topps Pizza Limehouse, Caprino's Limehouse, just to name a few. This goes to show how crucial staying open to a later time is for a business. I would like to assure we have taken noise, uh, noise measuring in place such as insurance company to make a new fan which decreases the noise. After the hours of 11pm, we, uh, do not have as much takeaway and collection customers. We try to prioritize delivery instead. Our, our, our delivery drivers all use an electric bicycle, um, as, and they park their bicycles and Uber drivers and just seat drivers, they park all on the main road. I just want to, uh, uh, retreat the fact that it's crucial to have a late night license for a pizza business as without that, there's a high chance you would make a loss. Yeah. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chair. Um, this is application for, uh, Poplar Pisa, 536 Commercial Road, London E12, Bravo Tango. Um, we consider the premises, uh, license application for Poplar Pisa, 536 Commercial Road, London E1. Uh, we have to consider the impact of the licensing objectives, particularly for environmental protection, the prevention of public visas, and the prevention of noise generated from within the premises or outside to be causing disturbance to the people in the vicinity. Also, the applicant has applied for hours above and beyond the council's framework hours. Um, it must be noted that council core hours from Monday to Thursday are from 6 in the morning, 6 to 0600 hours to 23.30, on Friday and Saturday 0600 hours to midnight, Sunday 0600 hours to 22.30 hours. The applicant is proposing licensable activity, late night refreshment, Monday to Thursday until 5 hours, you know, 0500 hours. This is an extension of 5 1⁄2 hours on the council's framework hours. Friday and Saturday until 500 hours again, 0500 hours, extension of 5 hours on council's framework hours again. On Sunday until 5, you know, 0500 hours again, extension of 6 and a half hours on framework hours. Also, there's insufficient information in the operating schedule of the license application to show how the applicant will promote the licensing objective for the prevention of public nuisance. With consideration of access and ingress from the premises, patrons in high spirits, especially during the late house hours sought. There are no sensitive premises. There are no sensitive premises, no sensitive, sorry, no sensitive premises. Um, residential premises in close, uh, proximity of, uh, proximity of, uh, both coast streets. Um, in our view, the application as it stands fails to comply with the objective of licensing act 2003 relating to public nuisance for the following reasons. Noise breakups from the venue affecting neighboring residents, the hours of operation, inclusive of proposals. In our conclusion, we, London E-1-2 Bravo Tango, uh, for the following reasons. Great likelihood of disturbance to residential premises at its, at the noise sensitive hours sought. Insufficient conditions in the operating schedule of the license application to show how the applicant will promote the licensing photograph of, you know, the, how these premises, they, how close the history of visiting or to the residential premises, but, you know, above the premises. You have five minutes each. Chair, I'll try and be as brief as, as possible. Um, obviously I, I'm here representing on behalf of Levine who made the original representation. Um, but I think first of all, in terms of this application is, is, is a little bit concerning in terms of who's actually running the business. Um, obviously as Corrine's highlighted in, in terms of the application is actually to be made in the name of the company of popular pizza and burger limited. Um, of which the sole director is a, of which the sole director is a, of which obviously that person isn't present today. Um, so obviously how that business is operating, the director of that company obviously isn't here to, to speak in terms of how he's going to manage that as an, as the licensee. Um, so that, that's our initial concern. Um, and Mr. Usmani, um, the original applicant resigned on the 6th of February 25 at the time when the new director came into place. Um, but also in terms of that, on looking on our systems, our food registration is in the name of an Adil Sharif, which was registered on the 19th of February 25. Um, so there's a number of people involved in the business and obviously I'll go into the, the matter of the background information that we have. And of which all of those people have somehow been involved in the business during which time we've had test purchases and investigations going on. So in terms of the background, the premises came to attention back in the 24th of February 24 last year. Um, with allegations that it was opening past 11 o'clock. Um, the complainant provided a photo suggesting that was taken at 11 51 with four persons inside, one appearing to be making an order with a male behind the counter. Um, we, we, we earlier had received back in October 23 of, of, of actually saying, how do I go about making a license? Nothing obviously came of that. Um, so we obviously sent a warning letter following the complaint on the 28th of February 24. In addition to that, one of our officers spoke to Mr Sharif's son. Um, well both sons, um, um, well both sons, uh, uh, Mujid and Adil. And, and obviously explained how they needed a license and what the warning letter was about and actually had a conversation with them. And at that time they were saying they were putting together the paperwork to apply for a license. Um, there was no application following that and there was a gap, um, we'd had, did a test purchase on the 10th of March 24 and it was closed. Um, but then we got further complaint in September last year. Um, again, a warning letter, which is our normal protocol would go to, to who we had as, uh, which was an M Sharif. Um, again, advising that they needed a license. Um, there was a test purchase following that. It was only two days after the letter was sent, but it was on the 27th of September 24. Of which we had a test purchase at 23.59. Um, the owner at that stage claimed to be an Ahmed Usmani, uh, who, who said he'd taken over on the 25th of May last year. The seller was a Mohammed Hazan Zadi. And, and obviously in terms of that, in terms of the seller, obviously Hazan Zadi is now one of the directors. Whether it's the same person, because it's a Mohammed and a Nazir, we're not aware and can't obviously clarify that. But obviously we're suggesting that those people were obviously part of that business at the time when the test purchase were done after the hours. In terms of obviously the application, it is asking for essentially 24-7 operations. So, I think the concern from us is one who is managing the premises. Who's going to be managing the premises? And if a license is granted, who's going to make sure that any conditions imposed is going to be complied with? With a 24-7 license, they've got to ensure that operates literally every day at all times. The premises is very close to the Troxie and White Swan, some of the, um, Troxie is obviously a large events venue. I think the concern is being in that close proximity and literally around the corner to a number of blocks of residential. And it's quite a tiny little road as well on that corner that we're going to get people gathering. It's a very small business and it looks like there's limited space in there in terms of customers. And are we going to see people hanging around outside that's then going to disturb the residents? Not only that, the delivery vehicles. So, I think that's our concern in terms of 24-7 operation. And I understand, obviously, they're saying that a lot of that is delivery. Um, I mean, I'm suggesting that we, we, we, like the application refused. Um, but obviously in terms of members and how you, you think in terms of your decision, I think maybe you may wish to consider a delivery only time after a certain time in order to minimise any impact on that area. And particularly the residents. Um, but obviously our main concern is, is actually who's running the business. Who's, who's going to be the licensee. And who's going to ensure those conditions are complied with. We've also checked as of yesterday on, on their local websites. And they are advertising on UberEAT. Um, and one of the other, um, websites that they're operating till midnight every day. Which is obviously a breach in terms of the app. And we've got, um, uh, PC Stanley, um, on the internet. Do you want to have your five minutes? PC Stanley, are you there? Hi, can you hear me? Yeah, you have five minutes. Hi. Yeah, you have five minutes to make your representation. Thank you. Thank you. So, as mentioned, this application is for a premises license, uh, in the heart of Shadwell, Limehouse, Stepney. Um, it wants to be open until 5am every day. These are very late hours for a premises in an area with higher levels of crime and disorder, including violent assaults. Um, we're concerned that a new premises here open so late would only lead to an increase in crime, disorder, and specifically public nuisance and ASB. Um, we've noted there's residents living directly above the venue and also those in the neighboring area. Uh, just during July, August, and September in 2024 in the Shadwell area, there were over 590 reported crimes, including over 160 assaults and 140 ASB reports. These levels of crime don't account for Limehouse and Stepney that also have high levels of crime and ASB. So, if you combine both for those, the numbers will be staggering. Uh, we believe that allowing the premises to sell hot food and stay open until 5am will only cause unavoidable public nuisance from normal patrons coming and going in the early hours of the morning, but also it may promote ASB and crime and disorder. Uh, it would also leave Popular Pizza as one of the latest open hot food venues on Commercial Road. There are few venues close by open late. However, uh, they have stricter conditions, higher staffing levels, more adequate CCTV and procedures in place that the applicant, um, rather than what the applicant has at the current time. Uh, we'd argue the applicant's agent has not approached police to discuss the application in detail. Um, one condition in particular, um, we believe, uh, may even be dangerous as it states provision of storage of CCTV and ability to remove customers from the premises. Um, we don't know what remove customers implies, but on the balance of probability, that either means SIA door supervisor would be hired. Um, but again, that's not a listed condition. Um, and if staff are removing customers themselves and not asking them to leave, that would put staff at risk. Uh, if, if they're not trained to handle that, uh, could pose a significant danger to staff as well as patrons. Um, again, there's a very, uh, unenforceable condition of managing litter and noise. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's ambiguous. Um, the application doesn't state how the premises or premises or license holder intends to achieve it. Uh, again, it makes it unforceable. Um, in relation to the, uh, noise concerns, uh, from vehicles coming and going, uh, we appreciate you mentioned it's, um, electric vehicles, but. It's, uh, the hours, early hours of the morning, nothing has been mentioned about what other levels of what mitigation there will be to, uh, prevent, uh, the noise outside that it's just going to, that's going to occur. Uh, just, uh, another stuff from the 1st of July until the 31st of October, there were 15 robberies in Shadwell. Uh, 32, uh, theft from person reports for 14 theft of motor vehicles in Shadwell all alone. Um, we understand that all of these are related to delivery drivers. However, the risk is still there and the condition best offered states provision and storage of CCTV footage. Uh, that condition doesn't clarify what the cameras will cover or the quality of them. Who has access to these recordings, how long the footage is going to be stored for, or if the premises intends to assist with any criminal investigations upon recordings. Uh, so based on not only the hours asked by the applicant, but the lack of conditions and the descriptions offered. Um, the lack of advice sought from the applicant, lack of interaction towards responsible authorities. Uh, it appears that, um, we believe that the applicant will be ill-equipped to manage any risks or disruption to the nearby community. Thank you. Um, that's it, right. Um, now members will have opportunities to ask questions. Do members have any questions for... Thank you, Chair. Uh, just want to, uh, clarify something if I forgot. Um, PC, uh, sorry. Yeah, I just mentioned that, uh, there are, there were some robberies and you mentioned it's related to... Uh, can you just clarify on that a little bit more, please? Yeah, so always trying to highlight is that in that particular area, um, the level of robberies and thefts in general, we're not saying it's directly related, obviously, to, to these premises that stay open late. However, it is a factor if there's vehicles turning up, making deliveries, and it is a factor if there's a premises that's open until five o'clock in the morning, it adds to the footfall, it adds to, um, creating targets of violence, targets of theft, and things like that. Thank you. And, um, and, but you all share the same email address. Sorry? But you share the same email address. The business, I know that my, my personal, uh, email, I didn't share. Uh, no, they have different email addresses. The personal email address is the ones, but Ahmed is Sierra, uh, Osmani, something like, at gmail.com, and his one's m.sherifahamaw.com. With litter and noise news service. Yeah, like I mentioned, um, we rarely have customers throughout the day coming in as takeaway customers. Most of the time it is delivery, and right now we do have a delivery driver that does the, that does the deliveries. Um, we're also, uh, keeping the doors closed, uh, throughout the day as we do have a fan and, um, that, uh, is gonna create less noise coming from inside the shop. Uh, we also have a limited space of dining, uh, like four spaces for people that can sit inside. That's why no one really sits down inside the shop and, uh, has their food. Um, yeah, and the, regarding the litter, uh, we, uh, the litter, uh, the, the townhouse council take the litter, uh, at, uh, nine o'clock. So every day at nine o'clock we'll take it out and they just straight away put it back inside the, the lorry that comes through. So we don't really keep any litter outside. Um, and, can I say something else? Regarding, then we do have CCTV around the shop, which might be helpful for, in case of any theft or crime. Um, uh, uh, regarding the, who has authority, uh, I'm currently the manager and have been the manager for a while. Um, I have a letter from, uh, uh, Nazir Ahmad Hazanzada that gives me authority to come to speak on his behalf. If you want to have a look at that. Um, I want to ask, how long have you said you've been manager for a while? Can you confirm? Uh, I was, uh, I was appointed by Ahmad Zulgai Osmani initially. Uh, before. What year? Uh, last year, 2024, before Christmas. Uh, I am still currently the manager for Nazir as well, for Nazir as well. And I have his letter that. Um, like I said, um, our collection and take your customers is, uh, we don't have it, uh, that much, uh, for them to create some noise. We have, maybe like after the hours of 11, maybe a couple would come in and, uh, we are a small business. We only have one delivery driver at the end of the day. Even the delivery's, uh, less our, uh, collection of customers. There's only a handful. Uh, that's why the, we don't, and it, like I mentioned, the, we don't have, uh, the extractor fan is really high. So you don't really hear any noise coming, uh, from their fan as well. Maybe Troxie some days, uh, we would get a couple more. But, uh, before our shop, most Troxie customers, they would, there's a kebab shop, there's a pizza shop, there's a chicken shop. So they like, by the time they come to our shop, they've already like had their food and everything. So they're just crossing, going by. So we're not really affected by the Troxie, Troxie events either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and plus the, um, our oven, unlike other ovens, it's a brand new one. So that doesn't make any noise as well. Because you won't know if it's on or off. On other ovens, in other pizza shops, they like have quite a lot of noise that comes from, you can hear from inside the shop. But our one, you really don't know that. So, uh, throughout the months I've been here, not much noise comes from inside the shop. Uh, and plus it's a high road at the end of the day. The high road's always busy, like, open to the, uh, later hours of the, of the night. And this owner can't, uh, isn't making a profit. So, um, if, if you can't, if you don't, uh, believe that five o'clock is, uh, a reasonable, maybe you can shorten it just so you can, like, at least make, uh, the same money back. If you get what I'm saying. We can get counsel out of it. Yeah. Thank you, Chair. Um, I just, um, want to ask a couple of questions. Um, first of all, to the objectives applicant side last, uh, quite some time now. Um, what are the council's, um, what have council have done to bring over or, um, have you, I mean, what council have done to actually, to get something, some results that, um, they could, um, correct themselves. Or, what's the last one that they, um, I mean. Our protocol with any complaint is not necessarily that it's, uh, you know, the allegation, their allegations. So, obviously, in terms of our investigation would be, firstly, to advise the premises we've had this complaint. And, and obviously, give them an opportunity to. In terms of application, we would offer advice on making an application. And often we do assist applicants if they're not sure how to complete a form. And we do give it a call to confirm that they are now operating in breach. So, we've, we've done our measures in terms of advising the premises of that. And that was obviously last year. Premises, we're, we're unclear. Um, but as I said, we, we would always offer that assistance in getting the premises to have a license. I think the concern here, they want any manager in place. Obviously, that's not been clarified by the applicants today. But I think that that's essentially what, what our process is normally in terms of that. And, and... I think, just to the applicant here. Um, you heard our objectives and the, um, um, council authority that, um, was being gone through. Um, what's your opinion? I mean, how did you take it? Like, you, do you know what his framework hours are? And you're only allowed to do within framework hours, my first question. And if you knew, then how did it go beyond, uh, the framework hours? And now you're asking, um, to, for the council to grant, uh, legally for almost 24 hours. So, what are your, I mean, opinion on those breach of, um, breach of terms and conditions? And by, why didn't you kind of bother to even, you know, um, follow the council instruction? 23, uh, he, uh, he was, uh, informed by the previous owner that, yeah, I believe it has, uh, he stated there it has a late night license. And so that's why he opened at two, uh, later time. And then when he sold it to Ahmed, uh, the second owner now, he said, he did the same thing. He was a, he didn't, he didn't, he wasn't aware that there's such a thing as a late night license. That's why he came to open again. So it's just a fact of not being aware and not being, uh, finding out the information, whether he does have a license or not. Uh, and now, uh, ever since, um, Nazid has, uh, Nazid has been, he, he, we haven't opened after 11 and regarding the Justin Uber, we manually close that because there's an option to manually close that at 11 o'clock. We close that five minutes before 11 o'clock because we're still, uh, waiting for the accounts to be, uh, changed the new owner. We don't have the account to change it on the app, for example. That's why we manually close that. And ever since, um, um, I've been manager, uh, uh, I'm assuring that this, uh, there's no breach, uh, of the rules again until we get that license. So ever since I've been manager, I have, we've, after 11 o'clock there's been, my take, with no trade at all. Um, yeah, and I will be the manager for, uh, the future as well. Yeah, I just, just want to clarify something. There's been several changes in the business, uh, in terms of the ownership, yeah. Um, under your, um, ownership and your management, um, how many, uh, um, breach of terms and condition you, you, you recognize that it's happened under your management? This is, I didn't understand before, but this is first time, uh, I did, uh, I didn't understand about that. Sorry, my English is not very well, but, uh, this is first time. That you needed a license. Yeah. Did you help your, uh, business, uh, under your name? He, he had it from January, 2023 to, uh, 25th of May, 2024. And then he sold it. He's trying to say that the, the reason why there's been multiple owners is cause realistically there's no profit coming to the shop. That's why everyone's just leaving and selling off. That's why now we're trying to take, get this, get this license to use the later, later hours to make a bit of profit, at least to pay off the rent, wages, bills, et cetera. Do you still have interest in the business? Sorry. I, I'm now, I lose a lot of money for the shop because I can't pay the rent and bill and gas, electric, that things, and then wages. Um, any other questions? Okay. Um, now moving on to concluding remarks. Uh, could I get, hear from the objectives, please? You have one minute each. Uh, thank you, Chair. Um, environmental protection team, um, clearly that's from. Um, in terms of the licensing authority, I think we're still not convinced in terms of the management and any connection to the, the actual director of the company of who is the actual applicant, um, who's applying for the license. So, I think in terms of the licensing authority, I think we're still not convinced in terms of the management and any connection to the, the actual director of the company of who is the actual applicant, um, who's applying for the license. So, I think in terms of the licensing authority, we're a bit unclear as, again, still as to who the management and in, in that sense, we obviously don't have, uh, the confidence that any, uh, license is more. And could we hear from, uh, uh, PC Stanley, please, online? PC Stanley? Uh, Jamie? Maybe that. All right. What we do is, um, we'll just move on. Sorry, Chair, can you hear me now? Yep. New. Sorry, I'm, I'm having a nightmare. My teams is, is all over the place. Um, so yeah, we would, we would ask for a policing perspective that if the committee were to grant the application that the conditions put forward by PC Wells, I'll be considered in the opening hours amended in order to minimize the impacts of crime and disorder, public nuisance. Thank you. All right. Could we, um, get the concluding remarks? Yeah. So what the, what he's trying to say is that, um, from my experience, um, I've, most likely if you don't grant them this license, um, they will have, go, go be, have a similar thing as me and go, have to sell the business again as they won't be able to manage it. But, um, if, if you can, it was not five o'clock, but maybe less hours just to make the money back, like I said. And plus, uh, I just wanted to say, um, that the management is now with me. Uh, I can assure, uh, all of you guys, I promise that there, there won't be a breach of rules as I am aware of the rules. Perhaps the previous owners, uh, due to a lack of English and not being in this country since they did, was not aware that there's such thing as a license. That's why they had this problem. And yeah, I can assure that there won't be no... For your contributions today, um, the subcommittee would deliberate in a private session after this meeting ends. And Simi from Democratic Services. Uh, Simi, are there any extensions on deadlines? Um, yes, Chair. Can I get the members and yourself to please extend the following applications? Um, Feast Express, 103 Whitechapel Road, London E1. Canary Wharf, 4 Trinity, Boy Wharf, London E14. Tesco Express, 2 Clove Crescent, London E14. Um, Globetown Community Association, 152 156 Roman Road. The Sun Tavern, 441 Bethnal Green Road. Um, FOMO Studio, 1 Shacklewell Street, London E27EG. And 2 to 4 Boundary Street, London E27JE. If they can, will be extended to June 2025. Yep. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for all your contributions today. This meeting is now officially closed. Thank you. Thank you.