Thank you, Chairman. It gives me pleasure to propose Councillor Zadd as Vice Chairman of East Sussex County Council. I'm sure having seen the way he performed the duty as Mayor in Bexhill, the civic side of the duty will be second to none. And we welcome him as your Assistant going forward. Thank you for a moment. I was seconding. That wasn't going to happen, right? So yes, I'd like to propose Councillor Cross and Cross to be Vice Chair of the Council. She's relatively new to the Council, but she's not still in work so far. I'm sure she'd represent the Council well. Thank you. Is that seconded? Councillor Maybols. So we'll go with the show of hands if that's okay with everybody. So first of all, all those in favour of Councillor Azad. Okay, thank you very much. Now, all those in favour of Councillor Cross? Yes, you are allowed to vote for yourself, Councillor Cross, as I did. Okay. Thank you very much on that basis. Councillor Azad is duly elected as Vice Chairman of the County Council. So congratulations, Councillor. I have been elected as the Office of Vice Chairman of the East Sussex County Council here by declare that I take this office up on myself and will duly and faithfully fulfil the duties of, according to the best of my judgment ability. I understand that, of that is the code and conduct which is expected, of the member of the East Sussex County Council. Thank you very much, all the members and thank you for your supporting me and trust on me. I know it's a very difficult time to, in every political group, but I will be working together, all of you. Thank you very much. Thank you. So we now move to agenda item three. Can I ask the Council confirm the minutes of the last meeting held on the 6th of February 2024 as a correct record? Agreed. Thank you very much. Do we have any apologies for absence? Any other apologies? Thank you very much. So can I first of all welcome all members of the public to this meeting, not just those in the council chamber, but those watching online through the webcast, can I remind you to have your phones on silence? And I have to start with the sad news of the -- Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. the public. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. It's My privilege and pleasure to again ask Councillor Bennett to be the deputy leader. The portfolios are laid out and are running along the line so I don't get people wrong. So, I've got Councillor Maynard, Social Care, Councillor Bennett as the finance and the portfolio with climate change. Councillor Baudler, children's, Councillor Stanley for education as it was and there's proper names for this and I haven't gotten to hand. I've asked Councillor Penny De Cara to take up the portfolio that was left by the sad loss of our colleague group at Simmons on economy and Councillor Claire Dowling to do the environment and transport portfolios. Chairman, I'll take questions on any of them if there are any. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Chairman, I think normally before we get into the main business and apologies for not dragging out sooner, there's an opportunity for the outgoing chairman to say a few words. I don't know whether it's something that's being missed off of the agenda today or whether it would be appropriate. Thank you, Chairman, and I will try and keep it to a few words. Thank you, Leader. Normally, I don't, but I've actually written a few notes because last time, five years ago, I forgot to thank a couple of people. So, I'll start by thanking you, Chairman, for your three years as my Deputy Chairman, filling in often when I wasn't able to for health reasons or others. So, thank you very much. It is greatly appreciated. I'd like to thank all members for having given me the opportunity to serve as Chairman for such a long time. It wasn't an onerous thing at all. It was great fun. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I thoroughly enjoyed meeting all of you on various occasions. And thank you to those of you who invited me to events in your divisions. No chairman can do the job without a Tracy. And I forgot last time. So, this time, I would like to put on record my thanks to Tracy Cochran and also to Caroline and Alice who filled in for her when she wasn't well last year. You can't be a chairman without her in your back room. Normally, I try to be modest, even if it's sometimes so modestly, but I will say that it pleases me every time I walk down this corridor outside to see on the board with all the chairman on it. There's only one name that appears twice, and that is a matter of pride, which I'm going to allow myself. They've been massive highlights in the last three years, so I will only pick a few. The biggest one, of course, was around the death of Her Majesty, the Queen, and following that, out on the front steps, the proclamation of His Majesty, the King, of which several of you were present. It was a very moving occasion. One of the great things, as you will discover next August, Mr Chairman, is the annual trip to Dieppe, where they commemorate the Dieppe raid of 1942 in a big way. You will need at least four wreaths for that trip. Talking of France, I had lunch a couple of weeks ago with the French Senator and the curator of the museum in Cannes, and a professor of history from the university in Cannes, and the chairman of English Heritage, amongst others. 2027 is the millennium of the birth of William the Conqueror, and Normandy is going into the celebrations of this in a big way, and they want us to be involved, so I hope we will be. Finally, probably the best parts of this job is meeting all the different community and voluntary organisations all over the county, and seeing all the excellent works they do, meeting volunteers at the volunteers' teas is always a pleasure. All I say, Mr Chairman, is that if you enjoy your term of office half as much as I have mine, you'll have a ball. Enjoy, and thank you. [applause] We did have a bit of a kerfuffle with the audio system, but I gather that is now resolved, so hopefully we've got clarity and understanding around the chamber. So I think we now come to paragraph two of the governance committee report appointment of members to committees, subcommittees, panels and other bodies, which has been called by Councillor Field. Can I invite Councillor Glazier to introduce paragraph two in the committee's report? Happy to move the report as printed, Chairman. Thank you, Councillor Field. Thank you. I'm not. I'd quite like our would like to amend this, and my group would like to amend it also, because it's recognised good practice and certainly recognised LGA good practice, that scrutiny committees are chaired by members of the opposition. It happens in other councils in the district and in the county, certainly in the district council. I'm involved with, we do that very successfully. We have a member of the conservative group chairing our scrutiny committee, even though it is not a conservative administration, and it works very well, and I think gives an extra sharpness to the oversight which cruises the committees offer. So I would like to amend this reading so that we have the chairs and vice chairs of the scrutiny committees, probably chaired by the opposition. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Field. Councillor Dunning. If I need to second that, I would like to second that, so thank you. Thank you. Anybody else wish to contribute to the debate? Councillor Maples. Although this is a minor point and it doesn't have any practical implications, I do think it's interesting that we have on 2.2B the guidance that where the larger party has more than half of members that they will have a majority on all committees and subcommittees. And of course, we are no longer in that position. We are half and half, and I just wonder whether there is opportunity to amend that statement so that it says either of the position that we are in now equal or half, or whether in fact we abandon that entirely on the basis that there are other elements within those guidance notes that actually cover us better for the situations that we are likely to find ourselves are in now and will be in the future. Thank you. Thank you. Any other contribution to the debate? Can I ask Councillor Glazier to respond, please? Thank you, Chairman. On the last point, we're dealing about points that are in the Constitution and are in our rules now. We are 25-25. Last time we said this, we were 27-23. By the time we get to the end of this year, fingers crossed, we'll still be 25-25, but these things change, so I don't think we need to change that at all. And actually, I think it weakens any argument that the scrutiny should be chaired by opposition, because actually, scrutiny in this Council works. Scrutiny in this Council has always worked, and it's always worked because actually politics is put to one side, and it matters not who's cheering it. I see no point at all. I have this debate regularly with your leaders at governance to change something that's working. Just look around. You gave rather as an example. I've had examples of Eastbourne where it's not working. Look into Wielden now. It's not working. And that is where the opposition are—sorry, in Wielden, the opposition are not cheering. And if you look at most County Councils—sorry, I'm chairing—closing this debate, Councillor Holt, not opening it up. The bottom line for me clearly is that we've avoided this for many years and it's worked for us. When there's a new administration after next May, who knows you may be able to change it. Chair, just on a point of explanation— Do we have points of explanation? Something that's just being said that is incorrect and needs to be corrected. Okay, I'll allow you to make a point of information, I guess, if that's it. Yes, the information is that, in terms of Eastbourne by a Council, the scrutiny committee, which is chaired by the Opposition Conservative Group, is working. The system does work in Eastbourne. Well, unless you're going to present some evidence of the contrary, please don't use Eastbourne as an example in that. Okay, I respond to that, Chairman. I'm not certain. Well, Chairman, the response would be, if that's the case, then I won't use Eastbourne as a good example when they do things right either, because at the end of the day, it is actually supposition, and if I wanted evidence, I'd go and find it. I've been told that it's not the best scrutiny in the world. I'm not picking on Eastbourne. I believe that the system that we've got works and I would ask my colleagues to support it. Okay, thank you very much. We have an amendment moved by Councillor Field and seconded by Councillor Deney to change the wording of the recommendation here. Would you like to repeat that, Councillor Field? Everybody is entirely clear about what your proposal is. I'd like to change the wording so that the scrutiny committees are chaired by the Opposition groups. Thank you. All those in favour of that amendment? Thank you. All those against that amendment? [inaudible] Right. So, 25, 4, and 25 against? [inaudible] Sorry, 25 against and 21, 4, so I misheard. So, the motion is lost. So, can I now ask Councillor Daisy to move the original paragraph and we'll vote on that as a substantive recommendation? Move as printed, Chairman. All those in favour of Councillor Glazier's recommendation? [inaudible] Is Councillor Dowling voting? [inaudible] All those against? [inaudible] That is carried by what, 25 to 21? 24 to 22. Thank you very much. We now move on to the Council Monitoring Report item 8. Councillor Glazier? No, item 7. Sorry. Have I got lost? No, we've done. [inaudible] Item 8. So, not yet the Council Monitoring Report. Councillor Bennett to propose the following few items and initially to work members to committees and subcommittees. Chair, for item 8, I propose the appointment of members to committees as set out in the list circulated. I hope that clears that debate. Item 9, I propose the appointment of members to other committees and panels as set out in the list circulated. [inaudible] So, we need to take those individually, I think. So, all those in favour of the proposal in agenda item 8, please show. [inaudible] Okay, all those against. Thank you. That is carried. Appointment of members to other committees and panels. Agenda item 9, all those in favour of this proposal. All those against. That is carried. Thank you. Agenda item 10, again, Councillor Bennett. Chairman, thank you. I propose the continuation of the board is listed in item 10 and that the political balance provisions should not apply to these bodies. Councillor Field. Thank you. I would like to make a slight amendment to this. After it says to which members are appointed by the Chief Executive, as the leader rises, I think that should read by the Chief Executive in consultation with the leader. Thank you very much. Councillor Glazier, are you happy to accept that amendment? We are. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you. Councillor Daniel. Yeah, I don't, the whole context of those bodies is that it's non-political. I fail to see with the Liberal Dems are actually evolving the politicians. It's got enough work to do. I'm not doing that very well, but that's another story. All right, but really, why would you involve a political leader, the Councillor? It makes no sense to me. The Chief Executive, you know, and a deputy of all my capable of sorting this out. We've never had a problem in any of these panels which I've been involved with ever. I don't think it would be, and if you did consult with them, but you never know the leader's going to be next week dear to say, well, the next month and the next year. So I do not support the proposal. Councillor Ungar. Yes, thank you. What Councillor Filley saying that in consultation, that does not give the Youth Council any strength other than to advise the Chief Executive who would still hold all the power and control over this. Thank you. So all those in favour of the amendment? Thank you. Do you need to count? All those against the amendment is carried. So we now need to vote on the substantive proposal. All those in favour, please raise your hands. Thank you. All those against? NEMCOM. Thank you very much. Agenda item 11, Councillor Bennett. Thank you, Chair. I propose that the political balance provisions should not apply to the discretionary transport panel, and the members are appointed as set out in the list circulated. Thank you. Are there any amendments? Is that agreed? Thank you very much. And agenda item 12, appointments of chairs and vice chairs of committees and subcommittees, Councillor Bennett to get to think. Thank you, Chairman. I propose the appointment of chairs and vice chairs as set out in the list circulated. Are there any amendments? Is that agreed? Thank you very much. Agenda item 13, we have no questions from the public, which is quite unusual, and no by pipes. So we move now to agenda item 14, report of the cabinet. Can I invite Councillor glazier to introduce paragraph one of the cabinet's report and indicate who will be introducing and responding to the debate? So moved, Chairman, and invite Councillor Bennett to introduce. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. The Council Plan set out a quarter three, describes the 59 performance targets, a very similar position from quarter two. The significant difference is there is deleted target around a number of providers registered with support with confidence, and that's because the license holder closed that on the end of December last year. The overall financial position is set out within the report in full. It shows a total forecasted revenue overspend for all departments of 29 million, mainly from children services and adult social care. This is a challenging financial position, which you've discussed at some length, of course. But some mitigations have been found within Treasury management, for example, Council tax collection, business rates levy pool. But after all, the available funding above the financial management reserve has been needed to cover the remaining projected deficit of 1.3 million. The planned capital expenditure is set out in the report for the year and projected at 74 million. And the reserves are projected to be in the order of 190 million, which is this year, which is a reduction of 28 million on the balance at 1st of April 23. This was due to Primality's planned use of reserves to support service investments and revenue overspend. The level of debt over five months continues to increase with the balance of 6.59 million compared to 5.1 million at 31st of March 23. The only other point to bring to colleagues' attention is that Appendix 2 provides a new set of Treasury management performance indicators, which will require BICEIP for under their prudential code. We are achieving 5.38% investment returns, which is above the benchmark rate. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Councillor BENDON. Anybody else wish to contribute to the debate? Councillor Materals. Thank you, Chairman. I have a question, really. It's on page 45, 1.27. I just wonder if we could get a little bit more information about the stats here. So it's claimed that the use of natural gas to generate electricity is increased by 7% year on year. And that's repeated in a couple of places in our documents in front of us today. I have not found any evidence of that. I've looked on the government websites, I've looked at statistical, I've looked at the carbon brief, all of which indicate that in fact there has been a lowering of the use of natural gas with one exception, one blip. So I would like to know where the statistics are from and on what basis that claim has been made. Thank you. Yeah, on the same paragraph, 1.27. Is it working? Sorry. Yeah, I'd just like to know, you know, the rationale for 7% of the missing the target is because of this national grid issue, which Wendy's just explained. But there's a further 8.61% that we're missing the target by and I'm just wondering whether there's more explanation about that and whether we can understand how some of the issues, maybe some of the barriers could be tackled in the future. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. I'm interested in the underspend for transport, which is significant. And I note the comments in that paragraph about road safety and challenging transport issues that need addressing. And one challenging issue that does need addressing is the international beauty spot at Exia and the lack of a safe pedestrian crossing. This impacts across the county. It is an internationally known site. And as I pointed out several years ago now, the cost of a safe pedestrian crossing should have been baked in to the original plans for that bridge. So if there is an underspend, can I ask that consideration is given to spending that on a safe pedestrian crossing in that area? Thank you. Yes, I had a question on Section 1.9 in terms of highways. There's a lot of detail there in terms of activities in terms of schemes and basically filling bottles and such. And I wondered whether this level of activity, what it means in relation to the stated strategy of the County Council, which is, I understand, is to maintain steady state road conditions rather than managed decline road conditions. So my question is, is the level of activity that went on in quarter three sufficient to maintain the steady state road conditions in Sussex? Yes, thank you. Whereas I'm always delighted to see a line which talks about an underspend in our budget, which to me implies some sort of flexibility. I'm standing here representing a town which some weeks ago it was impossible to get in or out of because of road closures and traffic lights. Not all down to us. So, and there are roads I know in this town where I live, which people will not drive down unless they absolutely have no alternative because you're weaving across the road to try and avoid the bottles. I have lost two wheels in the County Council's bottles, so I'm quite sensitive on this issue. So when I see two million pounds underspend, my immediate thought is we need pedestrian crossings and we need our bottles filled and filled once and not having to come back and fill them twice. So I would love to hear in a future report please that that two million pounds has been allocated to filling in potholes properly. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Dunnie. Thank you. My, my think mind is the same paragraph really. We're talking about the last paragraph before 1.5 and the underspend in CET. In particular, when we've got staff vacancies in road safety is something that concerns me greatly since East Sussex performed so poorly nationally and regionally it's top of the list. Which is, you know, it sounds like I've raised this previously in previous Council meetings. So I'm, I'd really like to know what we're doing about that because rather than just having staff vacancies in an area of which we perform badly, what are we doing to address those staff vacancies because it's super important. And it's, you know, it really needs to be addressed. So if we've got an underspend, is it, is it, you know, what can we do? Because I'd really like to hear that. Thanks. Councillor Scott. Thank you, Chairman. I'll be very brief. I think in terms of potholes, I think all of us that have been on the doorstep in recent weeks, months will, I've picked up a lot of anger from local residents. There's no question about in the areas that I represent and I'm aware of right across the county, haven't spoken to a good number of people. The reality is that the standard has not been good and therefore, while the criteria is not, not being met, of course, in terms of, in terms of the amount of potholes, you can have 20 and one road, for example, and only to fit the criteria, the rest don't get done. I think that's been really, really frustrating for people. They see that. There's been a lot of anger. We've been the brunt of that. All of us, whatever the party colour is, everyone's been the brunt of that and we need to be able to move forward from that. But we need to move forward in terms of a better quality, a better standard finish of potholes. I'm aware that contractor, contractors have gone and new ones are in place and let's hope that we can see some reinstatements or pothole repairs that actually will stay in place for more than a few days. The better weather's coming along now, so let's hope that we can get more done and to a better standard because that's really what our residents across East Sussex are telling us loudly and clearly. Thank you, Chairman. Councillor Scott, at Councillor CROSS. You have paragraph 1.11 about the Flexibus. I'm really pleased to see that improvements have been made and there seems to be a great deal of positive comment around it, which doesn't actually chime with some of the feedback that I'm getting from residents. Now, of course, that's, you know, you only tend to hear the complaints. So I would like to see some more evidence of how the Flexibus is working across the county. I'm aware that, you know, obviously it's used mainly through an app, which will give almost minute by minute monitoring statistics, which I have been looking for over the last couple of months and they're not very forthcoming. So I'm wondering whether it's possible to have some monitoring figures available for us, please, aware also, of course, that the funding is only available up until next March, as it stands. So I feel it's really important to try and get it absolutely right now. Thank you. Councillor SWANBER. Just a quick comment on the top page of 40. We all know that the Children's Services is a massive overspend and there's nothing we can do about that. And I'm sure we all do it gladly because it needs to be done. But it does show just the light in which local government is held by central government that they don't come up and fund this because it's not just happening here and it's not just happening on this subject. There are other subjects like homelessness, where this is happening and the government are making no attempt to produce the funds that are needed to solve these issues. And just one other little comment is we've got a list at the top of page 40 of 28.5 million pounds, which is the overspend on Children's Services. But don't be deluded by all these figures down here because, as it says there, these are mitigations in a lot of these cases. Once these have gone, they're gone, where we've got money coming out of general contingencies and things like that. When it's finished, it's finished. But we know that coming down the line, there's another set of figures like this probably for next year, so be aware. I wonder if Councillor Dowling would like to respond to some of the specific issues on highways before we go to Councillor Bennett. Thank you, Chairman. Councillor LAMBER is aware about the reason why the Safer pedestrian crossing in the exit bridge wasn't part of the original planning commission. It's a very challenging site to provide such a crossing, and I'm aware that this was something that Southstown's National Park was after. But it is definitely not. It is not part of the project. Excuse me. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt. I can't hear you. Sorry. Councillor LAMBER had heard me. Sorry. Okay. Yes, to say. The question of the Safer pedestrian crossing was obviously not part of the planning application. I'm aware that it was something that Southstown's National Park were after. It was not part of the bridge crossing, and it's not something that we are taking forward. Councillor Wright, the report you—the 1.9 paragraph you're talking about is in every quarter, we do an update on where we are for every quarter monitoring report. So you'll have seen it in quarter two, you'll see it in quarter one, and you'll see the end of year for quarter four. It's to let members of the public know what has actually happened on the ground. That's the reason for this particular paragraph. We have a planned maintenance program. Steady State was based over the ten years. I'll refer you back to the report that came out next year. It's ten years. Councillor Field, this past winter has been another challenging winter, as you are more than aware. In fact, I think the stats for April showed that April was the sixth wettest since 1836, and that followed February, that was the wettest. We've had two extremely wet winters. Muffle Beattie have repaired over 25,500 potholes since they took on this contract last year. We are aware that in some cases we have to do very temporary repairs which have to come back, and in the wet winter we're aware, obviously, that repairs have had to be done again, but this is done at their cost, not ours. Councillor Deney, Road Safety, there is a recruitment campaign to bring in new Road Safety teams. We are experiencing, as our local authorities elsewhere, difficulties in attracting staff, but I can assure you, Road Safety team is a very key team, and they will keep looking to recruit to that point. Councillor Scott, criteria, well, if the scrutiny wish to review the road maintenance again, it's in their gift. If they wish to look at criteria, it's very much in their gift. Flexibuss, I'm aware that BCIP is actually having an update at the moment, and it's going to come to one of the June lead member meeting. I can inquire as to whether or not we can attach, Councillor Cross, sorry, I couldn't see you, Councillor Lilliard, let forward. If he sits back, I can talk too direct. I can make inquiries as to whether we can include the monitoring as part of that report, but it will be a report that comes through, and everyone has access to that. Thank you. Councillor Bellock, would you like to reply to the debate? Thank you again, Chairman. I thank you, my colleague, Councillor Dowling, for replying to nearly all of it. That's a very good, I thought. One point about the use of fuels, that's taken from the government website, and I would point out that the targets and the projects that are within the control of this authority have all been met. The only slippage we have around targetry are where we have difficulties with supply chains, and in one case, whether we prevent some work being done. But you'll find the information you need about use of fuels as our government sites. Thank you, Chairman. This paragraph is for information only, so I ask Council to agree to note paragraph one of the cabinet report. Agreed. So we now come onto paragraph two, offset inspection of the City Council's Children's Services. Councillor Bellock. Thank you, Chairman. I've called this, as I thought we could all do with sharing a bit of good news. And it also allows the opportunity to, again, underline the recent ongoing Foster Care's Recruitment Campaign, which you have all been involved with. The inspection was undertaken with new parameters, yet we achieved a remarkable rating of good, with an addendum of outstanding in relation to our children in care. Children in East Sussex continue to receive consistently strong and effective support that helps them to improve their lives, and off-stud inspectors recognized the support for vulnerable children is a priority for this Council. And this was only achieved thanks to the efforts of our remarkable staff and the Foster Carers that we are fortunate to be blessed with. And all under the leadership of our Director of Children's Services, who we recently lost to retirement, but I take this opportunity to probably thank her and her team for all their stolen efforts in all areas of children's services under seriously challenging conditions. I'd also like to heat praise on the rank and file of the department at all levels. They do a remarkable job for us, and we are indebted to them. Not forgetting, of course, the magnificent Carter of Foster Carers spread right across the county. They are from all walks of life, varied backgrounds and ages, and without their love, care and dedication, many of our children would not achieve the remarkable results they do. A sincere and heartfelt thank you goes to every one of them. Finally, if anyone watching this today feels that they can offer a newborn, a toddler, a young person, or even a teenager, the opportunity of a better life, either full-time or part-time, long-term or short-term, we urge you to get in touch. And if the press are watching this today and I'm sure they are, we would really appreciate your support in our continued campaign to recruit more Foster Carers in it for our in-house fostering service, in order to give as many children as possible the benefits of a loving home and to provide the opportunities they all surely deserve. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Baudler. Councillor Field. Thank you. Yes, I also welcome this report and I do know that the criteria of said use change all the time, and I think in the climate, the current climate, getting a result like this is absolutely outstanding. They didn't say it was outstanding, they should have done, because we are, but I'm very pleased that also our work with Looked After Children was acknowledged, because we have a very active panel chaired by me, and we really do work hard and look after and care about those children in our care. Now, Councillor Baudler has talked about the importance of fostering, and we absolutely agree with that, and I've certainly been pushing that it round my parish Councillors, but also I think we need to remember that when Looked After Children become care experienced and out in the community, they also need jobs, and they need help to find jobs. It isn't always easy for them, they have all sorts of additional problems than young people normally do, and a little group of us met with the staff to discuss how we could help young people to find work and gainful employment. So I'm asking you all, and again, anybody watching, to think about your networks and think who you could offer a job to or work experience, because these young people are exemplary, and they need all the help they can get. Again, I joined with Councillor Baudler in thanking the officers, an amazing job, done by people who care deeply about the young people in this county, and also I'd like to say welcome to Carol Infair, who is the successor to Alison. I hope she has an enjoyable and productive time with us. Thank you. Councillor? Well, actually, I think everything has been said, that should be said, and I would like to thank the team under Alison. I think they have done an exemplary job, as Councilan Field has already said, and we thought that at the time on the committee that actually they should have had an outstanding, but of course, as usual, people move goalposts so they didn't quite get the goal in, but actually they were outstanding. I'd like to thank all of the members of staff and all of those who have worked so hard. I look forward to meeting the new leader, who will be Carol Infair, and working with her, and I thank everybody who put so much effort into this very worthwhile thing. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Howell. Nobody else has indicated they wish to speak. Councilor Bouder, do you wish to add anything in closing the debate? No, thank you, Chairman. I'm just grateful to all the members here for their constant support, whatever party they're in. Okay, thank you very much. So this is for information, so can I ask if Council agrees to note paragraph two of the Cabinet report? Agreed. Thank you very much. So we now have come on to questions from County Councillors, and I've had an indication that initially Councillor Murphy would like to ask a question of Councillor Stanley. Thank you, Chairman. Steppe Academy Trust in Hailsham have recently abruptly announced that they will be merging two primary schools in the town, that being Burfield's and Phoenix Academies, and they're merging them all to one site in September of this year. Steppe have published a statement outlining the proposed consultation to the program, and I have it here, and I will read just the first point and the second point. 29th of April, 2024, consultation period begins. 1st of September, 2024, new amalgamated school opens. Would Councillor Stanley agree with me that this consultation is a sham, as the outcome has already been predetermined? Thank you, Councillor Murphy. And as you know, we met with Councillor Fox, you have a full brief here, just want members to know that I brief yourself in the deal. This of course is a consultation by Steppe, not by this Council. I don't think it's a sham, obviously Steppe have a view. I do think it was disingenuous of Steppe to suggest it was our planning committee insisting on the kiss and drop facility that made it not available as a school. I think that was slightly strange, and the fact that they issued a letter within hours of the planning decision seemed to be, they had already rearranged that. I'm not going to comment on the whole thing, because it will come to me as lead member. It doesn't have to, but I asked officers to make sure that our consultation response does come to me as lead member, and so I will make that decision accordingly. And I would say to members of the public and parents, please write into the consultation, it's not a sham, it will be listened to, and it will be listened to by DFE. I think that the timetable is incredibly challenging. I would be surprised if DFE will work that quickly, because then the consultation has to go to the Regional School Commissioner, and then has to go to the DFE, or possibly Secretary of State. And I think to get that done by the end of the beginning of the summer holidays is going to be a challenge, which I, from my experience, DFE, do not work that quickly. But I will keep, and I'll have the meeting ahead with yourself and Councillor Foxx, and I will keep you informed of any information I have. Thank you Councillor SONIC. Councillor MURPHY, do you have a supplementary? Yes, and will therefore you be calling for a full report from the officers on the situation, and if this time scale can be achieved or not in the next cycle of meetings? The time scale would be probably for the DFE, the report that will come to my lead memory meeting, as they always do, will be a full report, and it will have in it our response to that consultation, which will take into our all factors, including the emerging world and local plan in terms of housing numbers. As you know from the data I've already given you, the situation with birth field in Phoenix, between those two schools at the moment, they have 45% vacancies, which is not sustainable, but we will feed all factors in. Before I make my decision. So, now we've got Councillor Righte for the question for Councillor Dowling. Yes, it's more of a general question, this, for kind of a new Councillor, who looks through the reports that he receives and tries to make sense of them for Council in such meetings. And, you know, I welcome the fact that the reports that we get from County show that there are lots of Council activities going on in East Sussex, that's good. These activities show that people are doing stuff, but there's often inadequate context for me or information for me to evaluate whether these activities are making a difference to my residents or not. And I do find it very difficult to evaluate that. And I think there's other Councillors who probably think the same as well. So, one thing I think we need is more metrics so we can actually evaluate whether the numbers are good, bad or indifferent that we get. It's also often unclear to me what problems you're actually trying to solve with some of these activities. And, you know, what are the outcomes you're seeking to achieve and whether the targets are being met? You know, was there a target in the first place? So, as I said, we get lots of informational activities, you know, 132 patches filled, 100 signs replaced, 507 families enrolled in learning programs, et cetera, et cetera. But it's very difficult to evaluate. And I'm just wondering whether this is a failure of communication in report writing or whether the Council just doesn't think in terms of sort of benefits and outcomes and things that it needs to put those clearly in the information that we receive. Or if it's some kind of performance issue, I just don't know. I'm sort of trying to find out. Can anyone comment on that? Clearly, not a question for Councillor Dowling, which I was informed was your, but more of a question for Councillor Bennett, I don't know. But it's a very wide-ranging question. So, quite difficult to do with, I think. I think, Chairman, what I'm being inclined to do in answer to the points raised is refer colleagues to the RPPR process and how that works, and that the one of the P's is actually around performance. The time of the tree that we set is not just an academic exercise. We look for an outcome, and we look for an outcome that's properly evaluated. But then, of course, we do what we always do, and we scrutinize what's going on afterwards and make sure that what we anticipated is actually happening, and if it is not, it's corrected. But all of our activity is actually geared to delivering a service, not simply to go through the motions of the administration of the Council. But I'm very happy to discuss this with colleagues privately. But that's my answer. Please understand the RPPR process, as presented at County Forum and through the course of the year. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Bennett. I can understand as a relatively new member of the Council, the Council writes a problem, but I must say, going back some 10 years when I was in his position, I did find that officers were very willing to discuss and explain whether by telephone or face-to-face meetings. And I think if you've got specific issues, it will be right to seek guidance from officers so that you can understand the issues more fully. You are entitled to a supplementary, if you'd like, to ask one. Yeah, I'm just thinking about, you know, organisations with plenty of cash, people can do lots of activities, and hopefully these activities will make a difference to people's lives. But when you've got reducing income streams, then surely every activity needs to be fit for purpose. So we need to be much more specific in whether, you know, these various activities are working. And I understand what you're saying about the RP, the process, I've kind of looked at that process. But I think I'm just wondering if the Council needs to change to meet the challenge of reducing income streams, and not just in terms of making sure that the books are balanced, I know they're good at that. But, you know, it's the outcomes for residents. So it does worry me because I look at these things and I think, you know, what are we doing? Well, I think we need to be clear, and we've discussed it earlier today, that the outcomes for children, for example, the money that we spend does produce good outcomes. And there are good outcomes for social care, and that's fully evidence. I don't know whether the leader or Councilor Bennett wants to confer, but it seems to me a matter of information, education for Council to write as much as anything else. Chairman, I think you've actually hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day, we set priorities, we set goals, we set targets, we deliver those targets and we monitor them. Are we always going to achieve what we set out to do? No, of course we're not. Are we always going to do the best we can? Yes, we are. Don't ask, talk to the LGA, talk to the offstead, talk to the CQC when they come in. We are inspected externally, and on every count so far, touching wood, we've been found to be good or outstanding. So, if you don't understand the matrix of how these things are recorded, as the Chairman said, the officers are there, or I'm sure the lead member or myself can have a conversation with you. If your leader was here, he would be able to explain much clearer, because actually our PP&R set these processes in place, and they've been running successfully for many years. So, if you need some help, then just ask. Thank you, Councillor Lillie. We're now going to Councillor Lumbert with a question for Councillor Dowling. Thank you, Chairman. This is a question about traffic orders. I understand that if one person objects to traffic order, this can cause delays, and sometimes there's a delay to significant capital projects, such as exeart. So, I wonder if we can have an update, and in particular, if there's any more information about potential delays to the exeart project. My understanding is that, Councillor Lambert, you and Councillor Hshing have been given the latest updates on where we are with exeart bridge. There are objections that couldn't be dealt with. The objections are still there. Possibly looking at a public inquiry later in November. We haven't got it, sorry, possibly quite in the autumn. That's the latest, but I understood when I was given a briefing that both you and Councillor Hshing were given the briefing before me. Not on that. I learnt about that yesterday from the MP for Lewis. Councillor Hshing, would you like to address your question? I would like to report that the dewy fitted water meters on the county highway, which is not finished in a good workmanship standard, is stick out about the full level, and it is a trick, but our highway response saying that within our safety limit and low action needed. Surely, it is not our highway maintenance policy to accept this water meter sticking about a four-year-old is safety is safe and do nothing. On my second one is portal repairs. Summer is here. Are we completed repairs or the outstanding portals on the list as we planned it last month? Thank you very much. You're going to need to repeat the second question. First of all, obviously I've got no prior information to the water meter that you talk about. It's obviously an individual. You've taken up with highways. If highways have inspected the meter and said that it is not a trip hazard, they are the engineers. They are the experts in the field. So if they have already looked at it and it says it's not a trip hazard, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about that, Councillor Hshing. But your second question, I'm sorry, I thought we were only allowed for one question, but your second question, could you please repeat? As we've been briefed, our outstanding portal could be repaired by April, I believe, and now do we be able to achieve that? I'm sorry, what you mean by outstanding potholes repaired by the end of April? I mean potholes, when they come in, they're obviously investigated. Those that have criteria, you've got the two hours, the five days, the 28 days, that will go on. So I'm not sure what you're talking about the end of April. I think directors send us an update in February to update all members. They will be able to repair all the potholes by April. That's what I remember on the email, and that's why my question is, are we able to achieve that? Oh, my apologies, you're talking about the backlog of the backlog, my understanding that they are, if not there, there are very few that are outstanding. But don't forget, in April we did have the wettest April, 6th, April, since 1836, and traditionally the last few years, we've had a good, dry April. Ask my supplementary on my question. Well, I'm being very indulgent to you, Councillor Shing. I will allow your supplementary, but that will be the end of the matter. Thank you. Yeah, because what I want to ask, the difficulty is now the stew will have assisted, is that acceptable, but residents think it's not acceptable, but they treat it over. So therefore, that's why I ask your help, see what we can do. I'm sorry, I didn't, I don't really understand that question. A highway stew would have said something, but the resident isn't happy. You're talking about a parochial, a specific issue, which I haven't got the information, and I cannot answer at this, in this meeting, Councillor Shing. Councillor, Daniel? Yeah, thank you, Chair. First one is Councillor Dowling. I'm not a piece of furniture, do you remember? Chair Mann, please. You can be called, whatever you wish to be called, sir. Thank you. But I retain the right to speak in the language I speak as well. All right, and I want you to sex this language, I'm afraid. Anyway, the question for Councillor Dowling is basically, it's not a difficult one, it's friendly, and I would have probably put this in the written form, but it came up too late. And to do with trees, I really like trees. In Hastings, we have one tree officer who's very effective, very efficient, and he looks after the borough council trees, and he looks after the county council trees. So, basically, there's a budget from both servers. Now, I've recently found out that basically the bit of money that the Sussex provide to him is for tree maintenance, fine, but not tree planting. So, when we lose a tree for whatever reason, then we have empty tree pits on the road, and he has no money to do that. So, what I want to ask you to do, I don't expect you to do anything today in detail, what I'd like you to do is ask you and your officers to look into that budgetary or implications to see if roads like Collier Road in my division could actually have not just empty tree pits there, which then become trip hazards in themselves, but could actually have trees. I like trees, I want to see more trees, I think that's in line with what we believe generally. So, maybe it's this kind of interpretation maintenance as opposed to planting, so that's all I'm asking you to do. Councilor Daniel, you said that if you'd had this information earlier, you'd have emailed it through to me. I think that's probably the cleanest way of doing it to begin with emote through that we can have a look at it. It's not something that I've told you now, I'm sure Mr. Clubs behind you will take note of that, and I'd quite like everything else. This was like the day before the election, so it's been busy. Councilor Dann has got another question, are you allowed to? We are, our labour group is on two. I thought I'd ask a question for Councillor Takara. First of all, I would very much congratulate her on her promotion, it's good to see more women in the cabinet long overdue, and that's good to see, and I look forward to the day when there's even better balance in the cabinet than that, maybe future cabinets will do there. And basically the question is to do with what we've been experienced in Hastings of late. We've had four or five days most of us without any water, and domestically it's been a nightmare, it's been grim, it's been torrid for householders. And I know perhaps the county does not have a direct role in terms of that, though I know Mr. Clubs have been dealing with complaints and concerns. We know there were mistakes made by southern water bottling plants, there were no supplies of bottled water, bear with me, I will get there at the end. In the part I represent, none of the town centre at all. But now we are in charge of the economy, there's been a huge economic impact to the businesses, particularly hospitality businesses in Hastings. This yesterday is traditionally the busiest day for those businesses in the whole of the year, when we have usually about 25,000 motorcyclists, and we have moral stances and people parading. And to be honest, for many businesses that couldn't open, that can be a death now for those businesses. So, first of all, I would like you to perhaps discuss to the officers how we can put pressure on southern water from the county's point of view. This is a repeat almost what happened in rye, very recently they went with that water thing for eight or nine days. So this is not one off, all right, in the area near us we've had two major problems, and that's not even counting the floods that we've had. But could I ask you to consider, with your officers, when you've bedded into the role a little bit, to convene a meeting of the stakeholders, and particularly the businesses and residents, representatives, to actually see how we can really try to change this. I know it'll take a new government probably to do it in the end of the day, you know, and that's to be realistic, whoever is the government. But if you could take that on board, it's not hostile, it's just in your new role. The economic impact, we already are getting rumours that southern water are not going to be a compensation, they're going to try and get out of that. And the businesses, some of those businesses will go under without help, and all I ask you and your officers to do is try and support us and our local economy. It's been a very difficult time. Thank you, Chairman. I think Councillor Glazier was going to be fine. I was looking forward to Councillor DiCarlo making her first contribution. I don't want to prevent that, Chairman, but I've got a briefing, so do you want to listen to Councillor DiCarlo tell you that I've got the briefing, or shall I just go straight into it? Just go straight into the briefing. Thank you. Chairman, we all understand the severity of the outage of the water in Hastings. I actually think that it would have been good just for Councillor Daniel to recognise the amount of work that the County Council have done. I mean, as the local forum, the director has been personally involved all weekend, and we've got many other staff, our comms team are working with people. I don't think I've seen better communications out of southern water. I don't think anyone could predict a 900 mill pite buried under the ground breaking the way it did. So this call for more maintenance, and it will all be better under the next government. It's absolutely nonsense. It was something that happened. And actually, the people in the businesses have had very clear communications. So if they've got an issue, if there are vulnerable people, all of this was picked up through the Resilience Forum and through southern water. And I really would like us all to send our thanks to all the people over the whole of this period that have been working really hard to ensure the most vulnerable are protected. Now, has it been good enough? There will be a wash-up meeting, excuse the pun, after the event. But more importantly, the MP has actually been involved with the Secretary of State to understand and put pressure on southern water to actually fulfill their duty as far as compensation goes and go as far as humanly possible. And all of those details are out there. I've seen your party comments on all of those. So I think collectively, and I'm sorry you had to bring the politics in, but unfortunately you don't seem to be able to prevent yourself currently. This is about people having water on one of the busiest weekends of the year and enabling businesses to open. Everything that was humanly possible was done, and there were still people that were without. All we can do is, as I say, learn the lessons and thank the good people that have put this together. And more importantly, as Councillor Dicara grows into her role, the relationship with southern water is a key one for all of us, not just on this instance, but there's many other areas where we need to build that relationship. But as for the Council putting pressure on, I don't think we need to. I think the public have put pressure on. I think the people that can affect this, i.e. the local MP has responded, and the Resilience Forum will be doing a wash-up that will pick up any lessons learned. So thank you for raising it today, and I think we all here today can send our best wishes to all of those that have worked really hard. And the sympathies to those that actually have struggled really hard on what could have been the brightest weekend of the year, as it happened on Monday. The weather conditions weren't great, but Jack in the green still went ahead. The motorcyclists still came, but I'm sure there are businesses that would have struggled to have covered the costs that alone made a profit yesterday. Thank you, Chair. Congratulations, Chair. You are entitled to supplementary Council. Just probably a few comments from a question. There's no doubt we had a far less motorcyclist. I'll be a little, particularly, it's been a crisis this weekend, if you can forgive me for that. It's not just my division, it's the whole of Hastings and some of the outlying parts as well. There's no doubt we had a huge reduction in a remote cyclist coming, because of the publicity about the toilets, that would have an impact. I can tell that, because I can hear them coming outside my house. It's what happens. I think we have to be more forceful, and we do have a role in putting pressure on, because it's not just this water shortage we've had this weekend. Be with me. All right, we had it in rye. We've had two major floods in my area in the town centre. We've had sewage in the sea, we've had sewage down above the hive in Western Leonard's. Reputationally, it's difficult. All I would say is you have good offices in terms of what you're trying to do, and I appreciate Mr. Club's club work, and everybody's work. But I feel for those people, I've heard them, I've seen them, I've met them, both businesses and individuals. And there will be an economic impact, and I feel it for the town. I wish I was confident that some of them would compensate properly, but whether they do or not, they haven't sorted out the flood issues yet, to be honest with you. So, you don't need to respond, but just if you can do whatever you can, I'm happy to be part of it. These things are political, because we know where we are with privatised water companies. All right, but that's the future, and I didn't say which government would do. It's going to be a new government, whoever it takes over. Okay, but it does need legislation, it does need regulation, but we have to have a voice. And you have a strong voice, your lead of the council and your team. So, that's all I ask for. Which is not a reason, I don't think. Thank you, Council President. I wish to add. A very brief response, Chairman. I think that I was asked earlier about monitoring what it is we do, how we know when we're doing things right. This council has some very clear responsibilities, and southern water has some very clear responsibilities, and we have a relationship with both. The moment we, the County Council, start taking on responsibilities that are not ours, short of monitoring and passing on the concerns of our residents, which we all do individually and collectively. We are at risk of not delivering the services that we're actually here to do. So, I just say to you, in the deepest respect, you've been around long enough to recognize that the responsibility for providing drinking water for dealing with our wastewater sits with southern water. We have a resilience forum that has the duty to look after people across the area, that swung into action and delivered the goods it was supposed to do. We will continue our relationship with southern water, but don't start putting expectations for the public that we serve on us, that we're not going to be able to deliver. Thank you. Are there any other all questions? Councilor Boudlin. Thank you, Chairman. I'd like to ask you a question of Councillor Holywich, please, who plays an active significant role in active travel. On this morning of a rail strike, how was his 25s? It is usual, I think, for questions to be to cabinet members. I know, but it doesn't say that in the agenda. It says questions to Councillors. Well, I'm sure that Councillor Holywich will be very happy to respond. Can I carry on or not? On this morning of a rail strike, he travels 27 miles on the new cycle path from Hastings, and I wonder what that experience was like. I thought members might be actually quite interested in that. Yeah. Thank you. Councillor Holywich. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Councillor Boudlin, for the opportunity to talk about our wonderful coastal off-road A27 cycle route. It enabled me to travel from Bexhill to here today, because the unions have called Aslef, who have put all the train drivers on strike. But it was great fun, thoroughly enjoyed it, and here, and enjoyed the thing. It gave me the opportunity to go over the Cookmere River with the Rampion Bridge, which every Councillor knows is named after Sussex County Flour, the Rampion. But it was a good journey. We're here. And I'm going to enjoy the trip back. Thank you very much. Councillor Hing. Thank you, Chairman. Yes, I would like to ask a question to Councillor K a darling, please. Many residents ask, When County Council stop building the new exit bridge? Thank you. Well, I'm advised that Councillor Hing is entitled to another question. But it's a reasonable question. What's the plan for exit bridge, I think? With respect to that, that was Councillor Lambert's question, which I answered about 10 minutes ago. Yep. Because I have difficult healing, I'm missing, I hear the exit bridge, but I didn't hear anything else. There's a problem I have. Sorry. The update then is there were some objections that couldn't be resolved. So the understanding is that we are not looking at a public inquiry in the autumn. Do with the compulsory order ending? That's it. That's what the objections were to. Yes, sorry. I apologise for laughing, but yes. No more questions. We'll move on to written questions. And first of all, the question of Councillor Angar. Right. Thank you very much, Chairman. It's well, my question came about because on Shrutani, we had a discussion with, I had a question of the last director, which led me to ask this question, which the answer really does surprise me. And I'm sure knowing that Councillor Stanley is very concerned about all our young people in school. Particularly those who have needs that go beyond the normal teaching supply, those with educational health care plans. The answer that I've got shows that there are 10%, that's 375 of children who have these plans, didn't have their review as in the required time scales. So I really think that's disgraceful. How can these children have their needs met if they haven't had a proper review to identify if they're getting the right amount of support, or if they need more that that can be put in place, or if they don't need so much? How can that happen if we're not actually carrying out reviews? Now, is this because schools, I mean reading the answers, I won't go through into it, but is it because schools aren't doing these reviews where the County Council can't take part? And if so, is that because the government haven't funded the schools properly or have underfunded the schools? So, can you please give me an assurance that in the next academic year, in this academic year actually as it happens, that all children who have these special education needs and disabilities have their reviews carried out so that the right amount of support, the correct amount of support will be provided. These are very vulnerable children, and I would like that assurance that their reviews will happen so that they have the proper level of support. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for that supplementary. I'd love to make that assurance when I can't because we're not in total control. Obviously, there are, as you said, there are 9% that didn't have reviews. There are a number of reasons why that happens. It's not because we haven't always got the resources, sometimes the children are not available, and you're right, sometimes the schools aren't available. So, we will endeavor, and then the second part of the question, it does say we have been reorganizing to try and improve on those numbers, but I can't give you an assurance it will be 100% because that's something I can't deliver. But I recognize how important it is that these reviews take place in a timely manner. Yes, please, Chairman. Thank you for the full and helpful response. I note that guidance is expected in the spring of this year. It's now the summer. Do you have an update on the timetable for that? And I hope when it does come out, this Council will take a positive and proactive response to enable residents to charge their vehicles in the way described. Thank you, Councillor Lambert. Unfortunately, I wish I did have a timetable of when the DFT was going to tell us what was going to happen, but we are still awaiting the guidance. Yes, obviously, we want to be proactive, but the bullets that are highlighted within the response are important. They're safety features because it doesn't just affect the resident themselves. It affects the users of the footways. So, yes, the sooner we receive the guidance, the sooner we can look at it and put a policy together that residents can then take forward. [BLANK_AUDIO]

and a tremendous job well done. And thank you on all of our behalf. Thank you, Chair. Well, I feel I must kind of echo some of those kind of comments. Councillor Pregnant, of course, is blessed to live in my division. And I've been grateful for his support on so many levels over the years. We have noiseless to agreed in politics, but Peter is a gentleman. And I mean that in the literal sense of that word. All right, he's kind. He does care. He's in the wrong party, but there you go. And I think we all had a gruel in a few days in Hastings with the lack of water, thanks to the southern water. He didn't even help the journey this morning across the picture. I'm sure you're aware. And it was a difficult night. Well, a difficult day on Friday for Peter. But, you know, he's a good bloke. Let's put the say that about him. And I know it with the functions I've come and I've attended the Chairman's functions when I've been invited. How much effort he puts in and the team behind the Chairman's office as well. But in closing, can I congratulate Councillor Gali on his new role? I'm sure he will do it to the best of his ability. Thank you. Thank you. Just on behalf of our group, I would also like to say thank you to Councillor Pragnell, who has always been welcoming to us at chairing events for which we are grateful. I'd also just like to add that, no, it's gone out of my head, but we'll just stick with thank you very much. Oh, I know, I'm sorry. So it is an onerous commitment being chair. And I think one of the things that has been a great pleasure in having you as chair is at those various events, which can be multiple and many. You have not indicated at any time that it is onerous. You've done it with goodwill and good grace. And thank you for that. And welcome to Councillor Gali sitting in the chair. Thank you very much. Thank you. So I don't see anybody else wishing to speak. I need now. With his badge. I invite him to go. I don't know when you go and sit elsewhere. But Becky, can I go? I've got to come around, I think. Thank you. [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Thank you, Chairman. It gives me pleasure to propose Councillor Zad as Vice Chairman of East Sussex County Council. I'm sure having seen the way he performed the duty as mayor in Bexhill, the civic side of the duty will be second to none. And we welcome him as your assistant going forward. [BLANKAUDIO] For a moment, it looked like I was seconding. That wasn't going to happen right. So I'd like to propose Councillor Cross and Cross to be Vice Chair of the Council. She's relatively new to the Council, but she's not still in work so far. I'm sure she represents the Council well. Thank you. Is that seconded? So we'll go with the show of hands if that's okay with everybody. So first of all, all those in favour of Councillor Zad. [BLANKAUDIO] Okay, thank you very much. Now, all those in favour of Councillor Cross? [BLANKAUDIO] Yes, you are allowed to vote for yourself, Councillor Cross, as I did. [BLANKAUDIO] Okay. Thank you very much. On that basis, Councillor Azad is duly elected as Vice Chairman of the County Council. So, congratulations. [APPLAUSE] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [APPLAUSE] [BLANKAUDIO] I understand that of that is the code and conduct which is expected of the Member of the State of County Council. [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [APPLAUSE] Councillor Zad, would you wish to say anything? [BLANKAUDIO] Thank you very much, all the members, and thank you for your supporting me and trust on me. And hopefully I can work with this, Councillor Gelig, and work with all of you again. And I know it's a very difficult time to, in every political group, but I will be working together, all of you. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] So, we now move to Agenda Item 3. Can I ask the Council to confirm the minutes of the last meeting held on the 6th of February 2024 as a correct record? Agreed. [BLANKAUDIO] Thank you very much. Do we have any apologies for absence? Thank you, Chair, apologies have been received from Councillor Tutt. [INAUDIBLE] Any other apologies? Thank you very much. So, can I first of all welcome all members of the public to this meeting? Not just those in the Council Chamber, but those watching online through the webcast. I'm going to remind you to have your phones on silence. And I have to start with the sad news of the- [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Thank you, Chairman. It's my privilege and pleasure to again ask Councillor Bennett to be the Deputy Leader. The portfolios are laid out and are run along the line so I don't get people wrong. So I've got Councillor Maynard, social care, Councillor Bennett as the finance and the portfolio with climate change. Councillor Bowdler, Children's, Councillor Stanley for education as it was. There's proper names for this and I haven't gotten to hand. I've asked Councillor Penny Dicara to take up the portfolio that was left by the sad loss of our colleague Rupert Simmons on economy. And Councillor Claire Dowling to do the environment and transport portfolios. Chairman, I'll take questions on any of them if there are any. [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Thank you, Chairman, and I will try and keep it to a few words. Thank you, Leader. Normally, I don't, but I've actually written a few notes, five years ago, I forgot to thank a couple of people. So I'll start by thanking you, Chairman, for your three years as my Deputy Chairman, filling in often when I wasn't able to for health reasons or others. So thank you very much, it is greatly appreciated. I'd like to thank all members for having given me the opportunity to serve as Chairman for such a long time. It wasn't an onerous thing at all, it was great fun. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I thoroughly enjoyed meeting all of you on various occasions. And thank you to those of you who invited me to events in your divisions. No Chairman can do the job without a Tracy. And I forgot last time. So this time, I would like to put on record my thanks to Tracy Cochran, and also to Caroline and Alice who filled in for her when she wasn't well last year. You can't be a Chairman without her in your back room. Normally I try to be modest, even if it's sometimes so modestly, but I will say that it pleases me every time I walk down this corridor outside to see on the board with all the Chairman on it, there's only one name that appears twice. And that is a matter of pride which I'm going to allow myself. There have been massive highlights in the last three years, so I will only pick a few. The biggest one, of course, was around the death of Her Majesty, the Queen, and following that, out on the front steps, the proclamation of His Majesty, the King, of which several of you were present. It was a very moving occasion. One of the great things, as you will discover next August, Mr Chairman, is the annual trip to Dieppe, where they commemorate the Dieppe raid of 1942 in a big way. You will need at least four wreaths for that trip. Talking of France, I had lunch a couple of weeks ago with a French Senator and the Curator of the Museum in Kant, and a Professor of History from the University in Kant, and the Chairman of English Heritage, amongst others. 2027 is the millennium of the birth of William the Conqueror, and Normandy is going into the celebrations of this in a big way, and they want us to be involved, so I hope we will be. Finally, probably the best parts of this job is meeting all the different community and voluntary organisations all over the county, and seeing all the excellent works they do, meeting volunteers at the volunteers, is always a pleasure, and all I'll say, Mr Chairman, is that if you enjoy your term of office half as much as I have mine, you'll have a ball. Enjoy, and thank you. (Applause) Thank you very much, Councillor Braggle. We did have a bit of a kerfuffle with the audio system, but I gather that is now resolved, so hopefully we've got clarity and understanding around the chamber. So I think we now come to paragraph two of the governance committee report appointment of members to committees, subcommittees, panels and other bodies, which has been called by Councillor Field. Can I invite Councillor Glazier to introduce paragraph two in the committee's report? Happy to move the report as printed, Chairman. Thank you, Councillor Field. Thank you. I'm not. I'd quite like our would like to amend this, and my group would like to amend it also, because it's recognised good practice and certainly recognised LGA good practice, that scrutiny committees are chaired by members of the opposition. It happens in other councils in the district and in the county, certainly in the district council. I'm involved with we do that very successfully. We have a member of the Conservative group chairing our scrutiny committee, even though it is not a conservative administration, and it works very well, and I think gives an extra sharpness to the oversight which scrutiny committees offer. So I would like to amend this reading so that we have the chairs and vice chairs of the scrutiny committees, properly chaired by the opposition. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Feud. Councillor Dunning. If I need to second that, I would like to second that. Thank you. Anybody else wish to contribute to the debate? Councillor Maples. Although this is a minor point and it doesn't have any practical implications, I do think it's interesting that we have on 2.2b. The guidance that where the larger party has more than half of members, that they will have a majority on all committees and subcommittees, and of course we are no longer in that position. We are half and half, and I just wonder whether there is opportunity to amend that statement so that it says either the position that we are in now, equal or half, or whether in fact we abandon that entirely on the basis that there are other elements within those guidance notes that actually cover us better for the situations that we are likely to find ourselves are in now and will be in the future. Thank you. Any other contribution to the debate? Can I ask Councillor Glazier to respond, please? Thank you, Chairman. On the last point, we are dealing about points that are in the Constitution and are in our rules now. We are 25-25. Last time we set this, we were 27-23. By the time we get to the end of this year, fingers crossed we will still be 25-25, but these things change, so I don't think we need to change that at all, and actually I think it weakens any argument that the scrutiny should be chaired by opposition, because actually scrutiny in this Council works. Scrutiny in this Council has always worked, and it has always worked because actually politics is put to one side and it matters not who is chairing it. I see no point at all. I'll have this debate regularly with your leaders at governance to change something that's working. Just look around. You gave rather as an example. I've had examples of East form where it's not working. Look into Wilden now. It's not working. And that is where the opposition are, sorry, in Wilden, the opposition are not chairing. So, and if you look at most county councils, sorry, I'm chairing, I'm closing this debate, Council, the whole, not opening it up. The bottom line for me clearly is that we've avoided this for many years and it's worked for us. When there's a new administration after next May, who knows, you may be able to change it. Chair, just on a point of explanation. Do we have points of explanation? Something that's just being said that is incorrect and needs to be corrected. Okay, I'll allow you to make a point of information, I guess, if that's... Yes, the information is that in terms of East form by a council that the Scrutiny Committee, which is chaired by the Opposition Conservative Group, is working. The system does work in East form. Well, unless you're going to present some evidence of the contrary, please don't use East form as an example in that. Okay, I respond to that, Chairman. Certainly. Well, Chairman, the response would be, if that's the case, then I won't use East form as a good example when they do things right either. Because at the end of the day, it is actually supposition and if I wanted evidence, I'd go and find it. I've been told that it's not the best Scrutiny in the world. I'm not picking on East form. I believe that the system that we've got works and I would ask my colleague to support it. Okay, thank you very much. We have an amendment moved by Councillor Field and seconded by Councillor Dunne. We would like to repeat that, Councillor Field. Everybody is entirely clear about what job proposal is. I'd like to change the wording so that the Scrutiny Committee is chaired by the Opposition Groups. Thank you. All those in favour of that amendment? Thank you. All those against that amendment. Right. So, 25, 4 and 25 against. Sorry, 25 against and 21, 4. So, I misheard. So, the motion is lost. So, can I now move, ask Councillor Dazia to move the original paragraph and we'll vote on that as a substantive recommendation? Move as printed, Chairman. All those in favour of Councillor Glazia's recommendation? Ms. Councillor Dowling voting. All those against? That is carried by what, 25 to 21? 24 to 22. Thank you very much. We now move on to the Council Monitoring Report item 8. Councillor Glazia. Item 7. Sorry. Have I got lost? No, we've done. Item 8. So, not yet the Council Monitoring Report. Councillor Bennet to propose the following few items and initially to members to committees and subcommittees. Chair, for item 8, I propose the appointment of members to committees as set out in the list circulated. I have that clear that debate. Item 9, I propose the appointment of members to other committees and panels as set out in the list circulated. All those second move? Thank you. So, we need to take those individually, I think. So, all those in favour of the proposal in agenda item 8, please show. Okay, all those against? Thank you, that is carried. Appointment of members to other committees and panels. Agenda item 9, all those in favour of this proposal? All those against? That is carried. Thank you. Agenda item 10, again, Councillor Bennet. Chair, thank you. I propose the continuation of the bodies listed in item 10 and that the political balance provisions should not apply to these bodies. Councillor Field. Thank you. I would like to make a slight amendment to this. After it says to which members are appointed by the Chief Executive, as the leader rises, I think that should read by the Chief Executive in consultation with the leader. Thank you very much. Councillor Glazier, are you happy to accept that amendment? We are. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you. Councillor Daniel. Yeah, I don't, the whole context of those bodies is that it's non-political. I fail to see with the Liberal Dems are actually evolving the politicians. He's got enough work to do. I'm not doing that very well, but that's another story. All right, but really, why would you involve a political leader of the Council? I don't, it makes no sense to me. The Chief Executive, you know, and a deputy of all my capable of sorting this out. We've never had a problem in any of these panels which I've been involved with ever. I don't think it would be, and if you did consult with them, but you never know the leader's going to be next week dear, saying, well, the next month and the next year. So I do not support the proposal. Councillor Unger. Yes, thank you. What Councillor Field is saying that in consultation that does not give the Youth Council any strength other than to advise the Chief Executive who would still hold all the power and control over this. Thank you. So all those in favour of the amendment? Thank you. Do you need to count? All those against the amendment is carried. So we now need to vote on the substantive proposal. All those in favour, please raise your hands. Thank you. All those against? NEMCOM. Thank you very much. Agenda item 11, Councillor Bennett. Thank you, Chair. I propose that the political balance provisions should not apply to the discretionary transport panel and the members are appointed as set out in the list circulated. Thank you. Are there any amendments? Is that agreed? Thank you very much. And agenda item 12, appointments of chairs and vice chairs of committees and subcommittees. Councillor Bennett to get to it. Thank you, Chairman. I propose the appointment of chairs and vice chairs as set out in the list circulated. Are there any amendments? Is that agreed? Thank you very much. Agenda item 13, we have no questions from the public, which is quite unusual. And no by pipes. So we move now to agenda item 14, report of the cabinet. Can I invite Councillor Glazier to introduce paragraph 1 of the cabinet's report and indicate who will be introducing and responding to the debate? So moved, Chairman, and invite Councillor Bennett to introduce. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. The Council Plan set out a quarter three, describes the 59 performance targets, a very similar position for a quarter from quarter two. The significant difference is there was a deleted target around a number of providers registered with support with confidence. And that's because the license holder closed that on the end of December last year. The overall financial position is set out within the report in full. It shows a total forecasted revenue overspend for all departments of 29 million, mainly from children services and adult social care. This is a challenging financial position, which you've discussed at some length, of course. But some mitigations have been found within Treasury management, for example, Council tax collection, business rates, levy pool. But after all, the available funding above the financial management reserve has been needed to cover the remaining projected deficit of 1.3 million. The planned capital expenditure is set out in the report for the year and projected at 74 million. And the reserves are projected to be in the order of 190 million, which is this year, which is a reduction of 28 million on the balance at 1st of April 23. This was due primarily to the planned use of reserves to support service investments and revenue overspend. The level of debt over five months continues to increase with the balance of 6.59 million compared to 5.1 million at 31st of March 23. The only other point to bring to colleagues attention is that Appendix 2 provides a new set of Treasury management performance indicators, which will require bicep for under their prudential code. We are achieving 5.38% investment returns, which is above the benchmark rate. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Councillor Bennet. Anybody else wish to contribute to the debate? Councillor Mapples. Thank you, Chairman. I have a question, really. It's on page 45, 1.27. I just wonder if we could get a little bit more information about the stats here. So it's claimed that the use of natural gas to generate electricity is increased by 7% year on year, and that's repeated in a couple of places in our documents in front of us today. I have not found any evidence of that. I've looked on the government websites, I've looked at Statistica, I've looked at the carbon brief, all of which indicate that, in fact, there has been a lowering of the use of natural gas with one exception, one blip. So I would like to know where the statistics are from and on what basis that claim has been made. Thank you. Yeah, on the same paragraph, 1.27. Is it working? Sorry. Yeah, I'd just like to know, you know, the rationale for 7% of the missing the target is because of this national grid issue, which Wendy's just explained, but there's a further 8.61% that we're missing the target by, and I'm just wondering whether there's more explanation about that and whether we can understand how some of the issues, maybe some of the barriers could be tackled in the future. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. I'm interested in the underspend for transport, which is significant, and I note the comments in that paragraph about road safety and challenging transport issues that need addressing. And one challenging issue that does need addressing is the international beauty spot at Exiac and the lack of a safe pedestrian crossing. This impacts across the county. It is an internationally known site, and as I pointed out several years ago now, the cost of a safe pedestrian crossing should have been baked in to the original plans for that bridge. So if there is an underspend, can I ask that that consideration is given to spending that on a safe pedestrian crossing in that area? Thank you. Yes, I had a question on Section 1.9 in terms of highways. There's a lot of detail there in terms of activities in terms of schemes and basically filling bottles and such. And I wondered whether this level of activity, what it means in relation to the stated strategy of the County Council, which is, I understand, is to maintain steady state road conditions rather than managed decline road conditions. So my question is, is the level of activity that went on in quarter three sufficient to maintain the steady state road conditions in East Sussex? Yes, thank you. Whereas I'm always delighted to see a line which talks about an underspend in our budget, which to me implies some sort of flexibility. I'm standing here representing a town which some weeks ago it was impossible to get in or out of because of road closures and traffic lights, not all down to us. So, and there are roads I know in this town where I live, which people will not drive down unless they absolutely have no alternative because you're weaving across the road to try and avoid the bottles. I have lost two wheels in the County Council's bottles, so I'm quite sensitive on this issue. So when I see two million pounds underspend, my immediate thought is, we need pedestrian crossings and we need our bottles filled and filled once and not having to come back and fill them twice. So I would love to hear in a future report, please, that that two million pounds has been allocated to filling in potholes properly. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Dinee. Thank you. My think mind is the same paragraph really. We're talking about the last paragraph before 1.5 and the underspend in CET. In particular, when we've got the staff vacancies in road safety is something that concerns me greatly since East Sussex performed so poorly, nationally, and regionally, it's top of the list. Which is, you know, it sounds like I've raised this previously in previous Council meetings. So I really like to know what we're doing about that because rather than just having staff vacancies in an area of which we perform badly, what are we doing to address those staff vacancies because it's super important and it really needs to be addressed. So if we've got an underspend, is it, you know, what can we do? Because I'd really like to hear that. Thanks. Councillor Scott. Hello, Chairman. I'll be very brief. I think in terms of potholes, I think all of us that have been on the doorstep in recent weeks, months will have picked up a lot of anger from local residents. There's no question about in the areas that I represent and I'm aware of right across the county, haven't spoken to a good number of people. The reality is that the standard has not been good and therefore, while the criteria is not being met, of course, in terms of the amount of potholes, you can have 20 and one road, for example, and only to fit the criteria, the rest don't get done. I think that's been really, really frustrating for people. They see that. There's been a lot of anger. We've been the brunt of that. All of us, whatever the party colour is, everyone's been the brunt of that and we need to be able to move forward from that. But we need to move forward in terms of a better quality, a better standard finish of potholes. I'm aware that contractors have gone and new ones are in place and let's hope that we can see some reinstatements or pothole repairs that actually will stay in place for more than a few days. The better weather's coming along now, so let's hope that we can get more done and to a better standard because that's really what our residents across East Sussex are telling us loudly and clearly. Thank you, Chairman. Councillor Scott, at Councillor CROSS. Yeah, paragraph 1.11 about the Flexibus. I'm really pleased to see that improvements have been made and there seems to be a great deal of positive comment around it, which doesn't actually chime with some of the feedback that I'm getting from residents. Now, of course, that's, you know, you only tend to hear the complaints, so I would like to see some more evidence of how the Flexibus is working across the county. I'm aware that, you know, obviously it's used mainly through an app, which will give almost minute by minute monitoring statistics, which I have been looking for over the last couple of months and they're not very forthcoming. So I'm wondering whether it's possible to have some monitoring figures available for us, please. And we're also, of course, that the funding is only available up until next March, as it stands. So I feel it's really important to try and get it absolutely right now. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor STRUNBER. Just a quick comment on the top page of 40. We all know that the Children's Services is a massive overspend and there's nothing we can do about that. And I'm sure we all do it gladly because it needs to be done, but it does show just the light in which local government is held by central government. They don't come up and fund this because it's not just happening here and it's not just happening on this subject. There are other subjects like homelessness where this is happening and the government are making no attempt to produce the funds that are needed to solve these issues. And just one other little comment is we've got a list at the top of page 40 of 28.5 million pounds, which is the overspend on Children's Services. But don't be deluded by all these figures down here because as it says there, these are mitigations in a lot of these cases. Once these have gone, they're gone where we've got some money coming out of general contingencies and things like that. When it's finished, it's finished. But we know that coming down the line, there's another set of figures like this probably for next year, so be aware. I wonder if Councillor Dowling would like to respond to some of the specific issues on highways before we go to Councillor Bennett. Thank you, Chairman. Councillor LANDBERT is aware about the reason why the Safer pedestrian crossing in the exit bridge wasn't part of the original planning commission. It's a very challenging site to provide such a crossing, and I'm aware that this was something the South Downs National Park was after. But it is definitely not. It is not part of the project. Excuse me, sorry for interrupting. I can't hear you. Sorry. Councillor LANDBERT heard me. Sorry. Okay. Yes, let's say. The question of the Safer pedestrian crossing was obviously not part of the planning application. I'm aware that it was something that South Downs National Park were after. It was not part of the bridge crossing, and it's not something that we are taking forward. Councillor Wright, the report you, the 1.9 paragraph you're talking about is in every quarter, we do an update on where we are for every quarter monitoring report. So you'll have seen it in quarter two, you'll see it in quarter one, and you'll see the end of year for quarter four is to let members of the public know what has actually happened on the ground. So that's the reason for this particular paragraph. We have a planned maintenance program. Steady State was based over the ten years. I'll refer you back to the report that came out next year. It's ten years. Councillor Field, this past winter has been another challenging winter, as you are more than aware. In fact, I think the stats for April showed that April was the sixth wettest since 1836, and that follows February that was the wettest. We've had two extremely wet winters. Buffalo Beatty have repaired over 25,500 potholes since they took on this contract last year. We are aware that in some cases we have to do very temporary repairs which have to come back, and in the wet winter we're aware, obviously, that repairs have had to be done again, but this is done at their cost, not ours. Councillor Deney, Road Safety, there is a recruitment campaign to bring in new Road Safety teams. We are experiencing, as our local authorities elsewhere, difficulties in attracting staff, but I can assure you, Road Safety team is a very key team, and they will keep looking to recruit to that point. Councillor Scott, criteria, well, if the scrutiny wish to review the road maintenance again, it's in their gift. Flexibus, I'm aware that BCIP is actually being having an update at the moment, and it's going to come to one of the June lead member meeting. I can inquire as to whether or not we can attach, Councillor Cross, sorry, I couldn't see you, Councillor Lydiard, let forward. If he sits back, I can talk to you direct. I can make inquiries as to whether we can include the monitoring as part of that report, but it will be a report that comes through, and everyone has access to it. Thank you, and everyone has access to that. Thank you. Councillor Benning, would you like to reply to the debate? Thank you again, Chairman. I thank you, my colleague, Councillor Dowling, for replying to nearly all of it. It's very good, I thought. One point about the use of fuels, that's taken from the government website, and I would point out that the targets and the projects that are with us, that are within the control of this authority, have all been met. The only slippage we have around targetry, are where we have difficulties with supply chains, and in one case weather, which prevents some work being done. But you'll find the information you need about use of fuels as sound government sites. Thank you, Chairman. This paragraph is for information only, so I ask Council to agree to note paragraph one of the Cabinet report. Agreed. So we now come on to paragraph two, offset inspection of the Senate's County Council's Children's Services. Councillor Boudle. Thank you, Chairman. I've called this, as I thought we could all do with sharing a bit of good news. And it also allows the opportunity to, again, underline the recent ongoing Foster Care's Recruitment Campaign, which you have all been involved with. The inspection was undertaken with new parameters, yet we achieved a remarkable rating of good, with an addendum of outstanding in relation to our children in care. Children in East Sussex continue to receive consistently strong and effective support that helps them to improve their lives, and off-stud inspectors recognized the support for vulnerable children is a priority for this Council. And this was only achieved thanks to the efforts of our remarkable staff and the Foster Carers that we are fortunate to be blessed with. And all under the leadership of our Director of Children's Services, who we recently lost to retirement. But I take this opportunity to probably thank her and her team for all their stolen efforts in all areas of children's services, under seriously challenging conditions. I'd also like to heat praise on the rank and file of the department at all levels. They do a remarkable job for us, and we are indebted to them. Not forgetting, of course, the magnificent Carter of Foster Carers spread right across the county. They are from all walks of life, varied backgrounds and ages, and without their love, care and dedication, many of our children would not achieve the remarkable results they do. A sincere and heartfelt thank you goes to every one of them. Finally, if anyone watching this today feels that they can offer a newborn, a toddler, a young person, or even a teenager, the opportunity of a better life. Either full-time or part-time, long-term or short-term, we urge you to get in touch. And if the press are watching this today and I'm sure they are, we would really appreciate your support in our continued campaign to recruit more Foster Carers in it for our in-house fostering service. In order to give as many children as possible, the benefits of a loving home and to provide the opportunities, they all surely deserve. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Baudler. Councillor Field. Thank you. Yes, I also welcome this report, and I do know that the criteria of said use change all the time, and I think in the climate, the current climate, getting a result like this, is absolutely outstanding. They didn't say it was outstanding. They should have done because we are, but I'm very pleased that also our work with Looked After Children was acknowledged because we have a very active panel chaired by me. And we really do work hard and look after and care about those children in our care. Now, Councillor Baudler has talked about the importance of fostering, and we absolutely agree with that, and I've certainly been pushing it around my parish Councillors. But also, I think we need to remember that when Looked After Children become care experienced and out in the community, they also need jobs, and they need help to find jobs. It isn't always easy for them. They have all sorts of additional problems than young people normally do. And a little group of us met with the staff to discuss how we could help young people to find work and gainful employment. So I'm asking you all, and again, anybody watching, to think about your networks and think who you could offer a job to or work experience because these young people are exemplary, and they need all the help they can get. Again, I joined with Councillor Baudler in thanking the officers, an amazing job, done by people who care deeply about the young people in this county. And also, I'd like to say welcome to Carol Infair, who is the successor to Alison. I hope she has an enjoyable and productive time with us. Thank you. Well, actually, I think everything has been said that should be said, and I would like to thank the team under Alison. I think they have done an exemplary job, as Councilan Field has already said, and we thought that at the time on the committee that actually they should have had an outstanding. But of course, as usual, people moved goalposts, so they didn't quite get the goal in, but actually they were outstanding. I'd like to thank all of the members of staff and all of those who have worked so hard. I look forward to meeting the new leader, who will be Carol Infair, and working with her, and I thank everybody who put so much effort into this very worthwhile thing. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Howell. Nobody else has indicated they wish to speak. Councillor Baudler, do you wish to add anything in closing the debate? No, thank you, Chairman. I'm just grateful to all the members here for their constant support, whatever party they're in. Okay, thank you very much. So this is for information, so can I ask if Council agrees to note paragraph two of the cabinet report? Agree? Thank you very much. So we now come on to questions from County Councillors, and I've had an indication that initially Councillor Murphy would like to ask a question of Councillor Stanley. Thank you, Chairman. Step Academy Trust in Hailsham have recently abruptly announced that they will be merging two primary schools in the town, that being Berfield's and Phoenix academies, and they're merging them onto one site in September of this year. Step have published a statement outlining the proposed consultation to the program, and I have it here, and I'll read just the first point and the second point. 29th of April, 2024, consultation period begins. First of September, 2024, new amalgamated school opens. Would Councillor Stanley agree with me that this consultation is a sham as the outcome has already been predetermined? Thank you, Councillor Murphy, and as you know we met with Councillor Fox, you have a full brief here, just want members to know that I brief yourself in the deal. This of course is a consultation by step, not by this Council. I don't think it's a sham, obviously steps have a view. I do think it was disingenuous of steps to suggest it was our planning committee insisting on the kiss and drop facility that made it not available as a school. I think that was slightly strange, and the fact that they issued a letter within hours of the planning decision seemed to be a kind of, they had already rearranged that. I'm not going to comment on the whole thing because it will come to me as lead member. It doesn't have to, but I asked officers to make sure that our consultation response does come to me as lead member, and so I will make that decision accordingly. And I would say to members of the public and parents, please write into the consultation, it's not a sham, it will be listened to, and it will be listened to by DFE. I think that the timetable is incredibly challenging, I would be surprised if DFE will work that quickly, because then the consultation has to go to the regional school commissioner, and then has to go to the DFE, or possibly Secretary of State. And I think to get that done by the end of the, or the end of the beginning of the summer holidays is going to be a challenge which I, from my experience DFE, do not work that quickly. But I will keep, and I'll have the meeting ahead with yourself and Councillor Foxx, I will keep you informed of any information I have. Thank you Councillor CASSIDY, Councillor MURPHIT, do you have a supplementary? Yes, will therefore you be calling for a full report from the officers on the situation, and if this time scale can be achieved or not in the next cycle of meetings? The time scale would be probably for the DFE, the report that will come to my lead memory meeting, as I always do, will be a full report, and it will have in it our response to that consultation, which will take into our all factors, including the emerging world and local plan in terms of housing numbers. As you know from the data I've already given you, the situation with Berfield and Phoenix, between those two schools at the moment, they have 45% vacancies, which is not sustainable, but we will feed all factors in. Before I make my decision. So, now we'll go to Councillor Righte for the question for Councillor Dowling. Yes, it's more of a general question this for kind of a new Councillor who looks through the reports that he receives and tries to make sense of them for Council in such meetings. And, you know, I welcome the fact that the reports that we get from County show that there are lots of Council activities going on in East Sussex, that's good. These activities show that people are doing stuff, but there's often inadequate context for me or information for me to evaluate whether these activities are making a difference to my residents or not. And I do find it very difficult to evaluate that. And I think there's other Councillors who probably think the same as well. So, one thing I think we need is more metrics so we can actually evaluate whether the numbers are good, bad or indifferent that we get. It's also often unclear to me what problems you're actually trying to solve with some of these activities. You know, what are the outcomes you're seeking to achieve and whether the targets are being met? You know, was there a target in the first place? So, as I said, we get lots of informational activities, you know, 132 patches filled, 100 signs replaced, 507 families enrolled in learning programs, et cetera, et cetera. But it's very difficult to evaluate. And I'm just wondering whether this is a failure of communication in report writing or whether the Council just doesn't think in terms of sort of benefits and outcomes and things that it needs to put those clearly in the information that we receive. Or if it's some kind of performance issue, I just don't know. I'm sort of trying to find out. Can anyone comment on that? Clearly, not a question for Councillor Dowling, which I was informed was your – but more a question for Councillor Bennett, I don't know. But it's a very wide-ranging question. So, quite difficult to do with it, I think. I think, Chairman, what I've been inclined to do in answer to the points raised is refer colleagues to the RPPR process and how that works. And that the – one of the P's is actually around performance. The time of the tree that we set is not just an academic exercise. We look for an outcome and we look for an outcome that's properly evaluated. But then, of course, we do what we always do and we scrutinise what's going on afterwards and make sure that what we anticipated is actually happening. And if it is not, it's corrected. But all of our activity is actually geared to delivering a service, not simply to go through the motions of the administration of the Council. But I'm very happy to discuss this with colleagues privately. But that's my answer. Please understand the RPPR process as presented at County Forum and through the course of the year. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Bennett. I can understand as a relatively new member of the Council, Councillor Wright's problem. But I must say, going back some 10 years when I was in his position, I did find that officers were very willing to discuss and explain whether by telephone or face-to-face meetings. And I think if you've got specific issues, it will be right to seek guidance from officers so that you can understand the issues more fully. You are entitled to a supplementary, if you'd like, to ask one. Yeah, I'm just thinking about, you know, organisations with plenty of cash, people can do lots of activities and hopefully these activities will make a difference to people's lives. But when you've got reducing income streams, then surely every activity needs to be fit for purpose. So we need to be much more specific in whether, you know, these various activities are working. And I understand what you're saying about the RP, the process. I've kind of looked at that process. But I think I'm just wondering if the Council needs to change to meet the challenge of reducing income streams and not just in terms of making sure that the books are balanced. I know they're good at that. But, you know, it's the outcomes for residents. So it does worry me because I look at these things and I think, you know, what are we doing? Well, I think we need to be clear. And we've discussed it earlier today that the outcomes for children, for example, the money that we spend does produce good outcomes. And there are good outcomes for social care. And that's fully evidence. I don't know whether the leader or Councillor Bennett wants to confer in it, but it seems to me a matter of information, education for Council to write as much as anything else. Chairman, I think you've actually hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day, we set priorities. We set goals. We set targets. We deliver those targets and we monitor them. Are we always going to achieve what we set out to do? No, of course we're not. Are we always going to do the best we can? Yes, we are. Don't ask. Ask. Talk to the LGA. Talk to the offstead. Talk to the CQC when they come in. We are inspected externally. And on every count so far, touching wood, we've been found to be good or outstanding. So if you don't understand the matrix of how these things are recorded, as the Chairman said, officers are there, or I'm sure the lead member or myself can have a conversation with you. If your leader was here, he would be able to explain much clearer, because actually our PP&R set these processes in place, and they've been running successfully for many years. So if you need some help, then just ask. Thank you, Councillor. We now go to Councillor Lumbut with the question for Councillor Dowling. Thank you, Chairman. This is a question about traffic orders. I understand that if one person objects to traffic order, this can cause delays, and sometimes there's delays to significant capital projects such as Xeart. So I wonder if we can have an update, and in particular if there's any more information about potential delays to the Xeart project. Thank you. My understanding is that, Councillor Lumbut, you and Councillor Shing have been given the latest updates on where we are with Xeart Bridge. There are objections that couldn't be dealt with. The objections are still there. Possibly looking at a public inquiry later in November. But we haven't got it, sorry, possibly inquiry in the autumn. That's the latest, but I understood when I was given a briefing that both you and Councillor Shing were given the briefing before me. Not on that. I learnt about that yesterday from the MP for Lewis. Councillor Shing, too much you like to address your question? Councillor K Andering, please. Resident reported that the newly fitted water metres on the county highway, which is not finished in a good workmanship standard, is stick out about the full level, and it is a trick. But our highway response saying that, within our safety limit and low action needed, surely, this is not our highway maintenance policy to accept this water metre, sticking about a full level, is safety is safe and do nothing. On my second one is portal repairs. Summer Street is here. Are we completed repairs or the outstanding portals on the list as we planned it last month? Thank you very much. You're going to need to repeat the second question. First of all, obviously I've got no prior information to the water metre that you talk about. It's obviously an individual you've taken up with highways. If highways have inspected the metre and said that it is not a trip hazard, they are the engineers. They are the experts in the field. So if they have already looked at it and it says it's not a trip hazard, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about that, Councillor Shing. But your second question, I'm sorry, I thought we were only allowed for one question, but your second question, could you please repeat? As we've been briefed, or our outstanding portal could be repaired by April, I believe, and now do we able to achieve that? I'm sorry, what you mean by outstanding potholes repaired by the end of April? I mean potholes when they come in, they're obviously investigated. Those that have criteria, you've got the two hours, the five days, the 28 days, that will go on. So I'm not sure why you're talking about the end of April. I think directors send us an update in February to update all members, say we were able to repair all the potholes by April. That's why I remember on the email, and that's why my question is, are we able to achieve that? Oh, my apologies, you're talking about the backlog of the backlog, my understanding that they are, if not there, there are very few that are outstanding. But don't forget, in April, we did have the wettest April, 6th, April, since 1836, and traditionally the last few years, we've had a good, dry April. Ask my supplementary on my question. Well, I'm being very indulgent to you, Councillor Shing. I will allow your supplementary, but that will be the end of the matter. Thank you. Yeah, what I want to ask, the difficulty is, now the stew will have assisted, is that acceptable, but residents think it's not acceptable, but they treat it over. So therefore, that's why I ask your help, see what we can do. I'm sorry, I don't really understand that question. A highway stew has said something, but the resident isn't happy. You're talking about a parochial, a specific issue, which I haven't got the information, and I cannot answer in this meeting, Councillor Shing. Councillor Daniel. Yeah, thank you, Chair. First one is Councillor Dowling. I'm not a piece of furniture, do you remember? Chair Mann, please. You can be called, whatever you wish to be called, sir. Thank you. But I retain the right to speak in the language I speak as well. All right, and I want you to sex this language, I'm afraid. Okay, anyway, the question for Councillor Dowling is basically, it's not a difficult one, it's friendly, and I would have probably put this in the written form, but it came up too late. And to do with trees, I really like trees, in Hastings, we have one tree officer who's very effective, very efficient, and he looks after the borough council trees, and he looks after the county council trees. So, basically, there's a budget from both servers. Now, I've recently found out that basically the bit of money that East Sussex provide to him is for tree maintenance, fine, but not tree planting. So, when we lose a tree for whatever reason, then we don't, we have empty tree pits on the road, and he has no money to do that. So, what I want to do, ask you to do, I don't expect you to do anything today in detail, what I'd like you to do is ask you and your officers to look into that budget tree or implications, to see if roads like Collier Road in my division could actually have not just empty tree pits there, which then become trip hazards in themselves, but could actually have trees. I like trees, I want to see more trees, I think that's in line with what we believe generally. So, maybe it's this kind of interpretation, maintenance, as opposed to planting, so that's all I'm asking you to do. Councilor Daniel, you said that if you'd had this information earlier, you'd have emailed it through to me. I think that's probably the cleanest way of doing it to begin with, email it through, that we can have a look at it. I think, it's not something I've told you now, I'm sure Mr. Clubs behind you will take note of that, and I'd quite like, you know, everything else. This was like the day before the election, so it's been busy. Councilor Dan has got another question, are you allowed to? We are, the Labor Group is up to, all right? Two of the Labor Group questions, right? No, I thought I'd ask a question for Councillor D'Acara. All right, first of all, I would very much congratulate her on her promotion, it's good to see more women in the cabinet long overdue, and that's good to see more women in the cabinet long overdue. And that's good to see, and I look forward to the day when there's even better balance in the cabinet than that, maybe future cabinets will do that. And the question, basically the question is to do with what we've been experienced in Hastings of late. We've had four or five days most of us without any water, and domestically it's been a nightmare, it's been grim, it's been torrid for householders. And I know perhaps the county doesn't have a direct role in terms of that, though I know Mr. Club's been dealing with complaints or concerns. We know there were mistakes made by southern water were bottling plants, there were no supplies of bottled water, bear with me, I will get there at the end. In the part I represent, none of the town centre at all. But now we're in charge of the economy, there's been a huge economic impact to the businesses, particularly hospitality businesses in Hastings. This yesterday is traditionally the busiest day for those businesses in the whole of the year, when we have usually about 25,000 motorcyclists, and we have moral stances and people parading. And to be honest, for many businesses that couldn't open, that can be a death now for those businesses. So first of all, I would like you to perhaps discuss to the officers how we can put pressure on southern water from the county's point of view. This is a repeat almost what happened in rye. Very recently they went with that water thing for eight or nine days. So this is the one off. In the area near us we've had two major problems, and that's not even counting the floods that we've had. But could I ask you to consider, with your officers, when you've bedded into the role a little bit, to convene a meeting of the stakeholders, and particularly the businesses and residents, representatives, to actually see how we can really try to change this. I know it'll take a new government probably to do it in the end of the day. You know, that's to be realistic, whoever is the government. But if you could take that on board, it's not hostile, it's just in your new role. The economic impact, we already are getting rumours that southern water are not going to be a compensation. They're going to try and get out of that. And the businesses, some of those businesses will go under without help. And all I ask you and your officers to do is try and support us and our local economy. It's been a very difficult time. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you. I think Councillor Glazier was going to be fine. I was looking forward to Councillor DiCarlo making her first contribution. And I don't want to prevent that, Chairman, but I've got a briefing, so do you want to listen to Councillor DiCarlo tell you that I've got the briefing, or shall I just go straight into it? Just go straight into the briefing. Thank you. Chairman, we all understand the severity of the outage of the water in Hastings. I actually think that it would have been good just for Councillor Daniel to recognise the amount of work that the County Council have done. And as the local forum, the director has been personally involved all weekend, and we've got many other staff, our comms team are working with people. I don't think I've seen better communications out of southern water. I don't think anyone could predict a 900 mill pite buried under the ground breaking the way it did. So this call for more maintenance, and it'll all be better under the next government. It's absolutely nonsense. It was something that happened. And actually, the people in the businesses have had very clear communications. So if they've got an issue, if there are vulnerable people, all of this was picked up through the Resilience Forum and through southern water. And I really would like us all to send our thanks to all the people over the whole of this period that have been working really hard to ensure the most vulnerable are protected. Now, has it been good enough? There will be a wash-up meeting, excuse the pun, after the event. But more importantly, the MP has actually been involved with the Secretary of State to understand and put pressure on southern water to actually fulfill their duty as far as compensation goes and go as far as humanly possible. And all of those details are out there. I've seen your party comments on all of those. So I think collectively, and I'm sorry you had to bring the politics in, but unfortunately you don't seem to be able to prevent yourself currently, this is about people having water on one of the busiest weekends of the year and enabling businesses to open. Everything that was humanly possible was done, and there were still people that were without. All we can do is, as I say, learn the lessons and thank the good people that have put this together. And more importantly, as Councillor Dakara grows into her role, the relationship with southern water is a key one for all of us, not just on this instance, but there's many other areas where we need to build that relationship. But as for the Council putting pressure on, I don't think we need to. I think the public have put pressure on. I think the people that can affect this, i.e. the local MP has responded, and the resilience forum will be doing a wash-up that will pick up any lessons learned. So thank you for raising it today, and I think we all here today can send our best wishes to all of those that have worked really hard. And the sympathies to those that actually have struggled really hard on what could have been the brightest weekend of the year. As it happened on Monday, the weather conditions weren't great, but Jack in the green still went ahead. The motorcyclists still came, but I'm sure there are businesses that would have struggled to have covered the costs that alone made a profit yesterday. Thank you, Chair. Congratulations, Chair. You are entitled to supplementary Council. Yeah, just probably a few comments from a question. There's no doubt we had a far less motorcyclist. I'll be a little, it's been a crisis this weekend, if you can forgive me for that. It's not just my division, it's the whole of Hastings and some of the outlying parts as well. There's no doubt we had a huge reduction in a remote cyclist coming because of the publicity about the toilets, that would have an impact. I can tell that because I can hear them coming outside my house, you know, it's what happens. I think we have to be more forceful and we do have a role in putting pressure on, because it's not just this water shortage we've had this weekend, bear with me. All right, we had it in rye, we've had two major floods in my area in the town centre, we've had sewage in the sea, we've had sewage down at both the Hive and Western Leonard's, you know, reputationally, it's difficult. So all I would say is, you know, you have good offices in terms of what you're trying to do, and I appreciate Mr. Club's club work and other ways of work. But I feel for those people, I've heard them, I've seen them, I've met them, both businesses and individuals. And there will be an economic impact and feel it for the town. I wish I was confident that some of them would compensate properly, but whether they do or not, they haven't sorted out the flood issues yet, to be honest with you. So you don't need to respond, but just if you can do whatever you can, I'm happy to be part of it. These things are political because we know where we are with privatised water companies. All right, but that's the future, and I didn't say which government would do. There's going to be a new government, whoever it takes over. Okay, but it does need legislation, it does need regulation, but we have to have a voice. And you have a strong voice, your lead of the council and your team. So that's all I ask for. Which is not a reason why I don't think. Thank you, Councillor Daniel. Councillor Glazier, do you wish to add? A very brief response, Chairman. I think that I was asked earlier about monitoring what it is we do, how we know when we're doing things right. This council has some very clear responsibilities. And southern water have some very clear responsibilities, and we have a relationship with both. The moment we, the County Council, start taking on responsibilities that are not ours, short of monitoring and passing on the concerns of our residents, which we all do individually and collectively. We are at risk of not delivering the services that we're actually here to do. So I just say to you, in the deepest respect, you've been around long enough to recognise that the responsibility for providing drinking water, for dealing with our wastewater, sits with southern water. We have a resilience forum that has the duty to look after people across the area. That swung into action and delivered the goods it was supposed to do. We will continue our relationship with southern water. But don't start putting expectations for the public that we serve on us that we're not going to be able to deliver. Thank you. Are there any other all questions? Councillor Boudlin. Thank you, Chairman. I'd like to ask you a question of Councillor HOLIDGE, please, who plays an active significant role in active travel. On this morning of a rail strike, how was his 25s? It is usual, I think, for questions to be to cabinet members. I know, but it doesn't say that in the agenda. It says questions to Councillors. Well, I'm sure that Councillor HOLIDGE will be very happy to respond. Can I carry on or not? On this morning of a rail strike, he travels 27 miles on the new cycle path from Hastings, and I wonder what that experience was like. I thought members might be actually quite interested in that. Thank you. Councillor HOLIDGE. Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Councillor Boudlin, for the opportunity to talk about our wonderful coastal off-road A27. The cycle route enabled me to travel from Bexhill to here today, because the unions have called Azleth, who have put all the train drivers on strike. But it was great fun, thoroughly enjoyed it, and here, enjoyed the thing. But it gave me the opportunity to go over the Cookmere River with the Rampion Bridge, which every Councillor knows is named after the Sussex County Flour, the Rampion. But it was a good journey. We're here. And I'm going to enjoy the trip back. Thank you very much. Councillor SING. Thank you, Chairman. Yes, I would like to ask a question to Councillor Khert Darling, please. Many residents ask, when County Council stop building the new exit bridge? Thank you. Well, I'm advised that Councillor SING is entitled to another question. But it's a reasonable question. What's the plan for exit bridge, I think? With respect to that, that was Councillor Lambert's question, which I answered about 10 minutes ago. Yes. Because I have difficult healing. I hear the exit bridge, but I didn't hear anything else. There's the problem I have. The update, then, is there were some objections that couldn't be resolved. So the understanding is that we are not looking at a public inquiry in the autumn. Do with the compulsory order, and then? That's it. That's what the objections would do. Yes, sorry. I apologise for laughing, but yes. No more all questions. We'll move on to written questions. And first of all, the question to Councillor Angar. All right. Thank you very much, Chairman. Well, my question came about because on Shruti knew we had a discussion with, or I had a question of the last director, which led me to ask this question, which the answer really does surprise me, and I'm sure, knowing that Councillor Stanley is very concerned about all young people in school, particularly those who have needs that go beyond the normal teaching supply, those with educational health care plans. The answer that I've got shows that there are 10%, that's 375 of children who have these plans, didn't have their review as in the required time scales. So I really think that's disgraceful. How can these children have their needs met if they haven't had a proper review to identify if they're getting the right amount of support or if they need more that that can be put in place, or if they don't need so much? How can that happen if we're not actually carrying out reviews? Now, is this because schools, I mean reading the answers, I won't go through into it, but is it because schools aren't doing these reviews where the county council can't take part? And if so, is that because the government haven't funded the schools properly or have underfunded the schools? So can you please give me an assurance that in the next academic year, in this academic year actually as it happens, that all children who have these special education needs and disabilities have their reviews carried out so that the right amount of support, the correct amount of support, will be provided. These are very vulnerable children, and I would like that assurance that their reviews will happen so that they have the proper level of support. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for that supplementary. I'd love to make that assurance when I can't because we're not in total control. Obviously there are, as you said, there are 9% that didn't have reviews. There are a number of reasons why that happens. It's not because we haven't always got the resources. Sometimes the children are not available, and you're right, sometimes the schools aren't available. So we will endeavour, and then the second part of the question, it does say we have been reorganising to try and improve on those numbers. But I can't give you an assurance that it will be 100% because that's something I can't deliver. But I recognise how important it is that these reviews take place in a timely manner. Thank you. Yes, please Chairman. Thank you for the full and helpful response. I note that guidance is expected in the spring of this year. It's now the summer. Do you have an update on the timetable for that? And I hope when it does come out, this council will take a positive and proactive response to enable residents to charge their vehicles in the way it described. Thank you, Councillor LAMBERT. Unfortunately, I wish I did have a timetable of when the DFT was going to tell us what was going to happen, but we are still awaiting the guidance. Yes, obviously, we want to be proactive. But the bullets that are highlighted within the response are important. They're safety features because it doesn't just affect the resident themselves. It affects the users of the footways. So, yes, the sooner we receive the guidance, the sooner we can look at it, then put a policy together that residents can then take forward. [BLANKAUDIO]