Transcript

As for normal, you are reminded that this meeting is being filmed and recorded for webcasting. Please remember to use your microphone if you speak and turn it off when you are finished. As you can see, we have a very full agenda this evening and so far as for A1.95 of the Constitution, after three and a half hours, we will vote on whether to extend the meeting for a further 30 minutes. In the event of any disturbance or disruption during the meeting this evening, I reserve the right to adjourn the meeting and clear December, and I will do so without notice. I have decided to alter the running order of the meeting this evening and will take items 13, 14 and 12 following item 5. Item 1, apologies for absence. I have received apologies for absence from the following Councillors. Councillor Lauren Dinsdale, Councillor Majid Rahman, Councillor Lachlan Saldin, Councillor Sandra Thomas, Councillor Mirinda Williams, Councillor Raja Zeeshan. Are there any other apologies this evening, please? Thank you, Mr Mayor. Apologies for lateness from Councillor Clare Burke-McDonald. Thank you, noted. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Apologies for leaving early. I am not feeling very well today. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Apologies for Councillor Rochonhan. Thank you, noted. Apologies for Sandra Thomas. Thank you, noted. Thank you. Item 2, minutes. Are members happy to agree the minutes of the meeting of 29th January and the special meeting of the Council on 26th February, 2025? Thank you. Item 3, Mayor's Announcements. As this is my penultimate meeting as Mayor, I would like to thank all members for their support over the last year. I have had an amazing time and met so many incredible people and residents during my time as Mayor. I will cherish those memories forever. We start this evening with a minute of silence for staff that we have sadly lost while still in service and following retirement this past year. Here tonight, we welcome some of the relatives who have joined us this evening in the public gallery. I had a pleasure meeting them in the chamber just before, in the parlour, and others who are watching from home. Thank you for being here and also watching from home. Our thoughts and prayers are with you at this very difficult time. We remember Josephine Day, who was in the cleaning operative at Woolwich Centre from GS Plus. Robert Mark was in the quality improvement hub leader in the children's services. Cheryl Moss was the senior business and operative coordinator in children's services. Deborah Pierce was in the street cleaning operative, communities, environment and central. Ronald Lewisfold was a state caretaker, housing and safer communities. Mark Connolly was a level all trade housing and safer communities. Thomas Palmer was a tailor and slater, housing and safer communities. Aaron Leslie was an internal audit and anti-fraud investigator in director of resources. Jeffrey Markin was a complaints member enquiries and information officer in children's services. Can I ask the leader of the council now, Councillor Anthony Okereke, to say pures? Thank you, Mr Mayor. It is with great sadness that we pay tribute to much-loved colleagues we have lost in the last 12 months. I extend, Mr Mayor, a warm welcome to the relatives and loved ones who have joined us both here in the gallery and those watching at home to remember their loved ones. Thank you for being here tonight. Our staff were beloved friends and colleagues, loved in their teams and well regarded for their work and I offer my deepest gratitude to each of them and each of you as families for their service to our organisation and the communities that they served. To you, they were cherished family members and I want you to accept my sincerest condolences for your losses. The impact each of your loved ones had on those they worked closely with and alongside and with our communities will never, ever be forgotten. Their work supporting our communities and helping this council achieve its missions and the work they do to help us tackle poverty will never be forgotten. Today, as we go into our one-minute silence, we remember them and pay tribute to them. Thank you. Thank you, Leader of the Council, Councillor O'Grady. Can I ask the Leader of the Opposition, Councillor Matt Hadley, to say a few words, please? Thank you, Mr Mayor. Can I endorse and support every word the Leader of the Council has said? Greenwich Council and the public it serves benefits beyond measure from our outstanding council officers who go above and beyond, day in, day out, with the professionalism that we've all come to rely on and a profound sense of public service. It is our council officers who deliver the policies we vote on here in the Council Chamber and it's ultimately them who deliver the services that the whole borough relies on and they carry out that duty with immaculate care and dedication and we all pass our condolences to the loved ones of those dedicated RBG colleagues who have passed away over this last year. Thank you for sharing them with us and with the borough that they served. The contributions they made to the Royal Borough of Greenwich will continue to have a positive impact lasting far into the future and their work, their dedication and their commitment is recognised and valued here in the Council by their colleagues across teams, across the organisation but most importantly by the community and the residents that they all served so well. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Hadley. Can I ask everyone to please stand for a minute of silence in remembrance. And finally, congratulations to our Community and Business Development team who have received a highly commended award in the LASER team of this year category at the South East London Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Awards. The award celebrates the outstanding efforts of colleagues at local level and highlighting the importance of EDI to our persons, staff and healthcare organisations in South East London. Well done to the team. Lee, did you want to say something on that? Please. Mr Mayor, just before we move further into the agenda, I thought I would use this opportunity to pay tribute to you as today marks your final meeting as First Citizen of the borough, chairing this full Council meeting before we go into our AGM. And I'm sure I'll have the opportunity to say a few words at the Mayor-making ceremony as you hand over the reins and your duties to Councillor Byrd. But I wanted to take a moment to thank you for everything you've done during your mayoral term. You've shown that representation matters. As our first Nepalese Mayor, you helped strengthen the Council's relationship with the Nepalese community and offer faith groups across the borough more opportunities. You've chaired some difficult meetings and today may be another. But throughout, you've carried out your duties with fairness, compassion, earning respect from both members of the House in this Chamber and the public. For those of us who know you more personally in this Chamber, you show what it means to be a true gentleman. Calm, respected and committed. During your term, you've worked tirelessly to support your chosen charities, raising over 25,000 so far, with still more to come through your upcoming events. You've given your all to this role, even while returning to your work. You've still remained fully dedicated. And I also want to thank the Mayoress, Gumaya Ranibat, who has supported you throughout your year, making it a successful year and playing a vital role, including organising the TG Festival last August. Thank you to you and thank you to her for both of her services. Thank you. Thank you, Leader of the Council, for your kind thoughts and well-worsed words. Thank you. Leader of the Opposition, Councillor Matthew Hadley. Thank you, Mr Mayor. And at the risk of making you blush, can I just echo what the Leader said about your service to this borough as our first citizen over this last year. I've had the privilege of seeing you in action on several occasions, including last Thursday at a really fantastic event. And I've seen firsthand the difference you've made out in the community to people who really do value that really important civic role that our Mayor provides. You've fulfilled the role, as the Leader said, with a calm dedication. You've chaired our proceedings here in the Council Chamber exceptionally well. It's been a privilege to serve under your Chairmanship throughout. And we're all grateful, as you've heard, for your incredible fundraising efforts, for your charities and the work that you've done, really important work out in the community, to continue to ensure that this borough is one community bound together, and you've done that exceptionally well. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Matthew Hadley. Councillor Babacuola. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I just want to echo what the Leader has said and what the opposition Leader has said. Speaking as a past Mayor, I know the job you do, and I know how time-consuming it is. And I remember when we left, as the Mayor and the Mayoress, I told my wife and she said the same thing, we have our time back. So, can I thank you for everything you've done, your dedication, your time, even though sometimes it's very inconvenient, I know occasions you will come back to the town hall to drop the chain around 12 midnight. So, thank you, and I echo everything everybody has said. Thank you for your dedication and thank you for your work. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Babacuola, your words and your reflection. Now, Item 4, Declaration of Interest. Do any members and officers have any Declaration of Interest? Councillor Gardner. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I would like to declare an interest in Item 20 on the agenda, because I own and live in a property absolutely adjacent to one of the car parks mentioned. Thank you. Noted. Thank you. Item 5, five minutes rule. I have received no request to exceed the five minutes rule. Now, we move to Item 13, as I outlined in the beginning. Annual Reports on Corporate Parenting 2023-24. Can I ask Councillor Adil Pare, Cabinet Member for Children and Young People, to introduce this report and the young people we have in attendance in the gallery this evening, who have every kindly agreed to come and talk to us about their experiences. Councillor Herring. Thank you, Mr Mayor. And, just before I start, I echo what the lead and the opposition leader said earlier on. Thank you so much, Mr Mayor. Colleagues and Mr Mayor, let me highlight that corporate parenting is everybody's responsibility in this room. It doesn't fall under me or Florence, it falls under all our elected members and all of GMT that's in front of me here, that to take care of the children that are in care. End of February, we had 420 children in care and 405 children who have care experience. So, that's a large number that the Council across Children's Services have been working with and not working with them on their own. Children's Services have been working across departments and also with partners to make sure that we fulfil the top priority, which is our children's needs at the front of everything we do. We make sure that young people that we work with are thriving, we make sure that young people we work with are safe and we make sure that young people that we work with, their needs are met. Mr Mayor, the report highlights the important things that we always keep a track on, on a constant pace and it's, like I mentioned, it works across all departments. So we got health, placement sustainability, emotion wellbeing and planning for the future, which is key. With a lot of our care leavers, planning for the future is the most key piece of work that many of the young people will be speaking on in a minute, Mr Mayor. Since this report was presented last time, we have made sure that we made some changes ourselves. The Corporate Parenting Partnership Board is shared by a young person as well, co-shared by a young person, which is amazing. Also, we have nine young advisors that sit across the different themes from place and growth, employment, health and across the other parts that we have been dealing with, Mr Mayor. And also, we have carried out a bright survey to understand exactly what we're doing right, to hear it directly from the young people to make sure that we're not just ticking a box, making sure that saying, we got it all right, we know, but we want to know young people are the key. So they do the survey and they put honest feedback that we need to improve and we are doing. There is places that we need to improve on, which we are doing, Mr Mayor, and we will continue doing that with the support of young people. Young people have looked at this report and have highlighted a few bits of that we need to continue to work on. The quality of housing, employment and training that we are working on to make sure that young people are in better housing and also ability to succeed in the future. Today, we have three amazing young people with us, Austin, Dorsey and Lucy. They have been an asset since I've been in the department working with them, co-chairing with some of them, and I will ask them to say a few words around this, Mr Mayor. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Khare. I would like to welcome our three young people, Austin, Lucy and Dorcas to the somebody again. If you would like to come forward to the microphone, in the centre there, you press the button when you speak, you will see the red lights and when you finish, you need to press it back to get it off. Thank you, you can start now. Well, thank you very much. I'm Austin and I co-chaired a corporate parenting partnership board. Today, I saw a main thing within the report and I think the main thing from my side would be the cost of living. Whilst there has been a new budget released today, there has been a lot of policies behind coming back new claimants and all this other stuff. For the people who are in care currently, who will be transitioning to care leavers, I wonder how it will affect their finances within the future. With freezes up to 2030, there will be a great impact on to grants, bursaries and food banks. Whilst as a care leaver, we get a lot of stuff from our local offer from a £3,000 care leaving bursary and a lot of other different help that is always there to know. Whilst we are talking about information behind the scenes and our points get heard and action points have been made, I believe the quality of food banks will be something that needs to be an overall mission as it becomes more reliable for the young people leaving care and transitioning into adulthood. That is all I have got today, so thank you for listening. Hi everyone, my name is Dorcas and I am a care leaver. Today, I wanted to talk about employability within Greenwich. As a care leaver, I have actually found it really hard to get a job. It is really hard and goodness to get a job. The key points I wanted to talk about today is about employability and education as well. I am actually exploring a different career path, like going into business. Greenwich is actually offering me the chance to explore for my future. I also wanted to talk about how Greenwich has given me the chance to become a young advisor, and that is a positive. Hi, I am Lucy. I am a care leaver as well. I co-chair the Independence and Resilience subgroup meeting, that is a subgroup to his corporate board meeting with Sean from Housing. I am here to talk about housing as well. The amount of care leavers in suitable accommodation has improved. It has gone from 86% to 89%, which is a lovely achievement and I should all be very proud of. But now, since we are looking more comfortable with the amount of kids in accommodation post-18, we thought we would start looking towards the quality of the housing provided. An example of this would be we were proposing inspections or spot checks in some of the houses that house the post-18 kids. I was going to be doing that with Ishera, the strategic lead for us, and Sean as well, the assistant director for housing. Along with being employed as young advisors, we were thinking that we would try inspectors for the day and try to help out. Since we do have personal experience in the semi-independent housing process, we thought we could chime in and maybe point out what could have been a specific experience that could be possibly improved upon in the homes. Let's try and keep young people safe where they are and keep things going and keep the amazing work going that the council is doing. Thank you. Lucy, Austin, and Lucas for your thoughts. Does any member wish to speak on the report or have any questions to our young people? Councillor Beatt. Sorry about that. Thank you, Chair. Yes, I know the people, the young people involved. I have met them on a few occasions. Thank you so much. I think I first met you, it might have been before Christmas, at an event where you were getting awards, and I was so impressed by the confidence that you had. I can't remember who it was, but someone was actually starting businesses. One business was going to be cleaning, setting up a cleaning company, and someone else had started a new venture, and many people are going to university. I am so impressed, and at this stage, can I reiterate, I am going off what I was going to say now, what Councillor Kerry has said, that please, we need more people to be involved in these events. The report highlights the top priority to ensure that children in care and care leavers receive the support they need to thrive, and this is achieved by working closely with key partners, which has actually happened in these last 12 months. And our pledge, I am not going to go all through this, to children in care, is called The Promise, which sets out our commitment to provide respect, offer support, guidance, and a good education. It also gives the commitment to involve children in decisions about their lives. Two of our care leavers, as we know, have joined the chair of the board, the joint chairs. The statutory guide guides guidance for local authorities states, the role that councils play in looking after children is one of the most important things they do. And as I have said before, and I know I am sort of an emotional person, and it always gets me, I have been a member of the corporate parenting panel for six years, and I can honestly say it is the most rewarding, most rewarding job that I have within the council, apart from being a council, obviously, and sort of, you are amazing, and yes, I often find it humbling. I love you all, and we should treat our young care leavers and children in our care with the same respect, and I know we do, really, as we do our own children. So, again, please can I just ask all of you to, in future, think about coming along to one of the events. They are well worth it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Gurnau. Councillor Lindabort. Okay, thank you, Mr Mayor. Unusually, Deputy Mayor standing up, just to say, really, to commend the work of the corporate parenting panel and children's services in supporting our young people and bringing to our attention our young people. I have a question for our extremely brave representatives, our advisors. Please, would you be prepared to come back, say, this time next year, and perhaps give us the next steps and update on your progress, and congratulations on all the things you are doing now. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Gurnau. Unless any Councillor indicate otherwise now, I take it that the Council notes this report. Adelian, Councillor Hayle. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Just to wrap up where I started, I think, number one, I would thank the young people that came here. As much as they are nervous, I told them I am nervous as well. So, they mentioned three important points regarding cost of living, employment and training, and the housing. We will take that on board. We will definitely continue to look into that. You are yourself advisors and co-chairs, so you will be definitely scrutinising us to deliver this for the better of all our young children that work there. Mr Mayor, just to wrap up, the last word would be, being a corporate parent is not my responsibility. It is all our responsibility, and every single one of us can find opportunities for these young people. When you are speaking to partners, when you are at events, when you are speaking to developers, how are you supporting our young people? Please continue pushing the word for our young people and the best for our young people to thrive. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and I close formally. Thank you, Councillor Hayle. Does the Council note this report? Thank you so much. The report is noted. Once again, on behalf of the members in this Council, I'd like to congratulate and thank you for your presence, our young people, Austin, Lucy and Douglas, for your brilliant words and time this evening. Now, feel free to stay with us, or you can leave, as per your convenience. No pressure now. Thank you. Now we move to Item 14, Standards Committee Annual Report 2023-24. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Can I thank you also for the opportunity to present this report to the full Council? It's the second time I've done this, and I think it's not something that's statutory, but something that we do as a Council that reflects our commitment to ethical behaviour of other Councillors, and that is very high, as I will come on to indicate. I would also like to thank our Officer, our Interim Director of Legal Services, Azuka Onora, because she has prepared this report, and she has supported the Standards Committee absolutely wonderfully over this last year, while she's been Interim Director, and I commend her service to you and give her our thanks as a committee. The report this evening refers to the outcome for the financial year 2023-24, so it's rather delayed, partly due to the local Council elections and also the weight of your agenda various months recently. So we do hope to come back with the report for the financial year ending in about a week's time, but that will be hopefully in the autumn, and we'll get back into a regular routine. I'm not going to go through the whole report, but there's a few things I would like to draw your attention to. The first is the extent of the training for members, which covers a very wide range of areas where ethical behaviour is very important, and you'll see in the appendix the breadth of that training, and there's a very high level of attendance at it, which speaks to the input and the seriousness with which councillors take their responsibilities. I'd also like to point out that for some time, for several years, the only independent member of the Standards Committee has been myself, but we have now managed to select and appoint two new members, and that was done in September 2023 when we appointed Guilia Gandolfo and Celestine Anderson to the vacant post, so that's a very welcome progress, and I'm sure that they will make an excellent contribution to the work. Throughout the period I'm referring to, 2023-24, we had only nine complaints, and of these, none were of sufficient substance to reach an investigation by the Standards Committee. Some of them were out of scope, some of them the complainant didn't respond to queries for additional information, some of them just didn't meet the threshold for investigation, and if those seemed to have any potential substance, they were happily resolved informally, which is what we always hope will happen. So it's a very low number, particularly as many of them were not relevant to the process at all. For our proposed activity for the year that's just about to end, we propose to carry out a best practice review of the members' code of conduct and the procedures for investigating complaints, and that, we hope, will be undertaken in the current year. Our monitoring officer will also continue to identify and support training for members on ethical standards as and when that's appropriate, and the remaining work of the committee will be demand-led, and we hope there will be no demand at all, because the silence is actually the good news part of this. So I'd like to commend this report to Council and to congratulate all of you on your very high standards of behaviour under the Code of Conduct. Thank you. Thank you, Chair of the Standards Committee, Dr Susan Blackall, for moving the recommendations. This report updates Council on the matters within the remit of Standards Committee during 2023-24, and the work done by the Council's monitoring officer during the period to promote and maintain high standards of conduct by councillors. Does any member wish to speak on this report or have any questions to Dr Blackall? Leader of the opposition, Councillor Matt Hadley. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I just wanted to share all of our thanks, I'm sure, to Dr Blackall for your work chairing the Standards Committee. It is actually a lot of work, and members may not be aware of how much work it is, and as you've said, we are fortunate in this borough, on this council, to have exceptionally high standards of ethics and conduct, and that doesn't happen by accident. It happens because there's a strong framework, a strong code of conduct, excellent training, and a very effective standards committee led by Dr Blackall. So I wanted to add our thanks as an opposition, and my thanks to Dr Blackall for all her work in making sure that happens, and also to the interim director of legal for her work in supporting the process. We're all grateful. Thank you, Councillor Hadley. Leader of the council. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I just want to come in and echo those comments from the leading of the opposition, and thank the committee as well for their work that they do. I think Dr Blackall talked about the work in getting more panel members there, and the fact that we have a fantastic all-women panel supporting us in fulfilling our work, because I think it's something to be proud of. It's the first time this borough has ever had that, so thank you for their work. Does council note the report? Thank you very much. The report is noted. Thank you so much, Dr Blackall, for your report and your time during the year. Item 12, 2023-2024, annual audit report. This report was considered by the audit and risk management panel on 19 March, who had the comment that they noted the audit fee with concerns, largely explained, but welcomed the assurance about the reduction in additional fees next year. Can I ask Councillor Dennis Hyland, cabinet member for finance, resources and social values, to formally move the recommendation? Thank you indeed, Mr Mayor. The auditor's annual report is the conclusion of the independent external auditor's work on Greenwich for the first year of the new audit arrangements in 2023-24 by Mazars. Last month, we saw the accounts signed off at full council, and we are part of only 38% of accounts nationally and only 10 authorities in London whose accounts have actually been signed off with an unqualified opinion. For other councils, this will mean that they do not necessarily have the stewardship assurance for their accounts. Tonight, we see the summary of the auditor's work, and it is split into three parts. Financial sustainability, how we plan to manage our resources and deliver services, that we track our savings and reduce reliance on reserves, and we have done that in 2024-25. Secondly, governance, informed decision-making and managing risks, and Mazars are satisfied with those arrangements. And finally, improving economy, efficiency and effectiveness, which is about costs, it is about performance, how we improve service delivery and the recommendations, for example, clearing the backlog of fire safety actions and awarding contracts for remedial works. We look at value for money and we have two significant weaknesses which we accept within housing and also financial sustainability. Now, with regard to the fees of Mazars, of course, they can't come straight in after our previous auditors and just take things as read. They have to lift every stone and have a look. So we have incurred additional fees, quite understandably, but we understand that those additional fees will, of course, not happen next year in the same way, unless there are other valid reasons, which we also accept. So we would like to thank both Suresh and his team for all the hard work you did and the diligence with which you met the task. Also to the ARM panel, to Councillor Gardiner and his team on the panel, who gave us good grilling on the night, thank you. And finally to the Director of Resources as well as the Chief Executive for all the work that has gone into the preparation of this audit. So my thanks to you and I formally move it, Mr Mayor. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Haydon. Can I invite Suresh Patel from the external auditor to address the Council on the audit report, please? Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you, Cabinet Leader of Finance. I'll be brief because you've got a very comprehensive and informative cover report and I think the cabinet member has also drawn out probably the key messages I was going to say. But I think I wouldn't underestimate the challenges that a first-year audit presents to you as a council. I do want to say thanks to the Director of Resources and his team for their cooperation and support to enable us to complete the audit within the time that was required. Probably a bit later than we'd all like, but I think we've learnt lessons to move into 24, 25, which is always a good position. So the unqualified opinion I think you should really take great assurance from, as the cabinet member said, one of only ten in London. And in terms of value for money, I'm sure members will probably recognise those two recommendations that we make because they do follow on from the previous year, but obviously reflect, as is the case across London, the financial challenges that you face as a council. And I think the cabinet member's right, we've already seen the changes that you've made for 24, 25, so we will be following that up and reporting back to you this time next year. That's all I had to say, Chair, by way of key messages to say. I think you've heard from the cabinet member and got a good cover report, but happy to take any questions. Thank you. Are there any questions to the external auditor from the members? We are not debating the item 8, just questions for the auditor at this stage, please. Does the chair of the Audit and Risk Management Panel wish to make any comment at this point? Thank you, Mr Mayor, and could I thank Council Highland and the finance team for the work that they have done. Being in this quite elite group is not only a good fortune in that Grant Thornton were generally very timely, so we had timely reports, or reasonably timely reports, over previous years, but also obviously this year four of us, as the new auditors, have worked well with the finance team to come up with a report on the unqualified opinion. That's not the state that many councils find themselves in with disclaimed opinions, which is quite unsatisfactory. But it doesn't necessarily shade a bad light on their finances, it's more the effectiveness of the audit. Therefore, Chair, in terms of the comments of the Audit Committee on the audit fee, we clearly were concerned at the number of extras, or the base fee from the PSAA, which is the body which regulates and chooses the auditors, has almost doubled anyway, and on top of that there were four additional items which we did scrutinise at the Audit and Risk Management Panel. We were satisfied clearly with some of them, but clearly concerned at the number of extras, and we look forward to the fee being reduced next year in line with the assurances that Mazars have given. Just to echo, Chair, the points that the cabinet member made, Mr Mayor, on financial sustainability, it is really important that we try next year to get a good opinion in terms of financial sustainability, despite the problems that we face, and all councils face, to recover from the years of austerity and the current financial squeeze as well. But what is really good is that this year's forthcoming budget actually does not eat in very much to reserves at all, and the tracker is now being regularly monitored and is going regularly to the scrutiny panel. That is excellent. It is also really good that the cabinet member for housing and the housing team have accepted the weakness identified in terms of economy efficiency and effectiveness, and are working very hard and at pace on the actions on fire safety. So those were the observations of the Audit and Risk Management Panel, and to thank again the audit team for the work that they have done. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Gardner. Does any member wish to speak on the report? Councillor Hadley. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I am speaking just to add my thanks and the opposition group's thanks to our new auditors for their work and the Director of Resources. The auditor had no questions tonight, but members can be assured they had lots of tough questions on audit and risk management, as Councillor Gardner said, and we are grateful to them for their work. On those two areas of significant weakness, financial sustainability, and secondly the fact that Council has still not yet achieved 100% compliance with the home standard, members should take that, as members of the ARM panel took that, as only a further reminder of the urgency of those two challenges, and really the urgent need for the Council to put rocket boosters up the transformation agenda on financial sustainability. And also one of the questions I had was around the presence of the finding of significant weakness around the home standard. How does that actually translate into action, because these things are being addressed, and I was given an assurance that its presence on the audit report will be used as a lever by the cabinet member, I can see she's nodding, and the Director of Housing to make sure we get 100% compliance as soon as possible, not just because we don't want to see this on next year's audit report, but of course because fire safety is so important and crucial. So that was it, Mr Mayor. Just adding our thanks to all the work that's gone into this first year audit, and look forward to engaging in next year's audit in short order, no doubt. Thank you, Councillor Hadley. Does Councillor Highland wish to close the debate? Formerly, Mr Mayor, with thanks. Thank you. Are members happy to note the annual audit report 2023-24? Thank you. I declare that the annual audit report 2023-24 has been noted. On behalf of the Council, I would like to thank the external auditor for his report and work around the audit. It has been very much appreciated. Item 6, submission of petitions. I have been notified that some councillors wish to submit a petition. After I call your names, please stand and briefly summarise the substance on the petition. Councillor Nazazger. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I present a petition on behalf of the users, the children and the adults, other users of Plumstead Adventure Play Centre on Plumstead Common. They object to any proposed transformation which involves the loss of the facility or turning it into a place for team sports, which they believe will exclude countless local children and young people. They say that using another adventure playground will be very difficult for a lot of families who will have to travel further afield. They call on the Council to invest in Plumstead Adventure Playground and preserve the important local facilities for the local children and young people. Thank you. Next, Councillor Rodatesta. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I have a petition signed by over 1,300 residents, parents and most importantly children who attend adventure play centres around the borough, which include the Coldharbour Adventure Play Centre in my ward, a well-attended site which has been established in the community for over 40 years. The petition is calling on the Council to give certainty over the future of the Coldharbour site and indeed all the adventure play centres in Royal Greenwich. Thank you. Councillor Syramore. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I would like to present to the Council a petition on behalf of residents of Birdbrook Road and the surrounding roads about parking issues around those roads. Thank you very much. Thank you. Councillor Dave Sullivan. Thank you, Mr Mayor. On behalf of Councillor Sandra Barr and myself, we've been asked to support this petition and we do. The residents of Birdbrook Park Road are deeply concerned about the illegal, unsafe, threatening parking which is taking place as a result of the welcomed resident use scheme that's been built on nearly completion on Ignatius Sancho Road. They'd like the Council to review the parking situation in that area and consider whether it should be added to the Kidbrook North CPZ. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you. Does any other member have a petition to submit? Thank you. Item 7, petition responses. There are responses to petitions submitted to the previous meetings. Petitioners, if present, may address Council. You must make your address to the Council Chamber and keep your comments to the subject matters of the petition. Each petitioner has up to two minutes to speak. I will be straight with time. Appendix 1 is Logna, Sweden here. Good evening. As a Palestinian and representative of Greenwich Palestine Action, I express my intense indignation at the Council's failure to seriously address our petition. Your response lacks any solidarity with Palestinians who have suffered 17 months of genocide and 76 years of oppression under Israel, nor consideration of its impact on Palestinians and communities in our borough. Israel's actions rely on support from the US, Britain and the EU, including over £61 million invested by this borough. The ICJ has confirmed a plausible case of genocide and urged authorities to avoid complicity. Israel's apartheid and occupation are recognised as significant breaches of international human rights and equality law. The excuse that pooled investments prevent divestment is unacceptable and an abdication of local democracy. As the administering authority, the Council has a duty to ensure ethical investments. Failure in this also violates its duty to pension holders who oppose war crimes. We demand that this Council commit to divesting from all investments linked to Israel, including companies listed in PSC's research, and instruct the ELSEF to do the same. Revise investment policies to exclude companies that facilitate, enable and profit from apartheid, genocide, occupation, human rights violations, ethnic cleansing and breaches of international law, instructing fund managers accordingly, and to produce regular updates for trade unions, community groups, including Greenwich Palestine Action. The Council's constitution mandates decisions uphold human rights and equality. Will the Council, in accordance with this, pass a motion today to apply these demands for divestment, given Israel's recent breach of the Gaza ceasefire and slaughter of hundreds of Palestinians in a matter of days? Just three hours ago, I would like to add more of our friends have been slaughtered in Gaza, just three hours before attending this meeting. I appeal to this Council once again, as a matter of urgency, to permanently divest from all investments in Israel. This is not just a financial decision, it is a moral and political imperative. Thank you. Does any Councillor want to comment on this? Can I ask the Chair of Pension Fund Investment and Administration Panel to respond? Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank you for your question on the petition. I believe if you read the petition carefully, I have given you enough details of the steps the panel has taken. And I'm happy that you attended the last meeting, which, just by the fact we spoke privately, and I told you the steps we have taken drastically to ensure that we take due diligence, to do whatever is necessary, to make sure that we support and do whatever we can within our fiduciary duty. And you remember the last meeting, in our strategy statement, we had a warning, which I had my fellow Councillor, Councillor Gardner, to read out to all members. And at the moment, I don't have anything else to add. However, if I have any updates of any of the further steps we have taken, I will let you know privately. Can I use this opportunity to thank you for engaging with us, and I will do everything I can to make sure I update you of every step we take. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Babatola. Thank you very much. Is Ciara Montgomery here with us this evening? Please, come to the microphone. Good evening, and thank you. My co-petitioners and I have lived in Horn Park Lane for many years, and in that time, the roads have gone from being relatively free of parked cars to very congested, such that they have become dangerous to residents and school students alike. Our roads are relatively narrow side streets. However, parked cars make it very difficult for residents to exit driveways, as it's hard to see around the parked cars, and access to and from our drives are often blocked. Parking has become a serious issue due to commuters to leave station parking their vehicles each morning. Lewisham Council have initiated CPZs around Hither Green and Grove Park stations, and are consulting on one at the moment for the Lewisham side of Upwood Road and around, which will put pressure further onto the streets of Horn Park Lane and around. Indeed, Greenwich Council has initiated CPZs around Blackheath, Kidbrook and Eltham stations, but nothing's been done for the Lee area. Colesh School continues to develop their site whilst reducing their onsite parking provision. In the past 10 years, the number of students have doubled, and increasing numbers of staff and students park in the surrounding streets. I note very many schools in the borough actually have parking restrictions in the surrounding residential roads, including all other private schools. And this is compounding the problem by traffic pouring off the South Circular onto Horn Park Lane to cut through to Eltham Road after the introduction of the Lee Green LTN. Whilst Greenwich Council has initiated many parking and traffic control measures elsewhere, we feel our streets have been ignored. At the start of the 2nd of September 2024, some of the Horn Park Lane residents organised a petition where 68 signatures were collected from Horn Park Lane and Upwood Road. Of the residents that we canvassed, only one declined to sign the petition, and the response was overwhelmingly that residents were concerned about parking and wanted action. We thank Councillor Taggart-Ryan for being helpful in listening to our concerns, and feeling what we are asking for is consistent with the Council's transport strategy and TfL's transport policy. The residents have evidenced their overwhelming support for measures on Horn Park Lane, and we ask that the Council hear our concerns and initiate an immediate programme of control measures before somebody gets hurt. Thank you. Does any Councillor want to comment? Can I ask the cabinet member for climate excellence, sustainability and transport responsibilities? Thank you Mr Mayor, and I thank Sarah Montgomery for her response there. I think the answer has been really clear. What I've said is that we are aware that there are issues. We have stage 1, we've just embarked on a huge programme of sustainable streets in five areas, and that is stage 1 of that process. I've also stated in the response that Horn Park will be stage 2, and we will be looking to start to consult by the end of this year. I am aware that Lewisham is planning or consulting on a CPZ, but what I can assure you is if they take any moves to impose a CPZ, then I will up that time and bring it forward. That's the best I can say to you. Thank you. Thank you. Is Andy Brockman here with us? Please proceed to the microphone. Good evening Mr Mayor, Council. Thank you for listening. I'm speaking on behalf of the Board of Governors of Shrewsbury House Community Association and Sally McDougall who placed a petition, who sadly can't be here tonight and sends her apologies. Shrewsbury House Community Association is grateful to Councillor Ives-Williams who presented our petition regarding the plans for 28 Mill with Drive. We would also like to thank the Council for its consideration of the petition. Unfortunately, we cannot welcome the response presented here. The Council could have responded to the substantive and positive vision our petition lays out. Instead, what we read is essentially a procedural smoke screen and a rehash of elements of a discredited report given to Cabinet in November, which glossed over many of the issues surrounding any attempt to dispose of 28 Mill with Drive for anything other than community use. The Board of Trustees are most concerned at the innuendo repeated once again in this response that it is somehow the fault of SHCA that discussions regarding taking on 28 Mill with Drive ended in 2019. As Officers and Councillors are well aware, since we were offered heads of terms in 2019, Shrewsbury House Community Association has made repeated attempts to engage with the Council with a view to bringing 28 Mill with Drive back into sustainable, productive use for the community. The petition is just the latest such attempt. In spite of these efforts, we have been met by stonewalling silence, deflection, deferral, and in the case of the proposed disposal, a flawed and secretive process undertaken without consultation or apparent care for those most directly affected. As this petition demonstrates, over 1,000 members of our immediate community, your voters, support bringing 28 Mill with Drive under community management in support of the work of Shrewsbury House Community Association in delivering on many of the Council's own missions. We have a proud record of achieving this on minimal resources and at next to no cost to Council. All we ask is the Council enters into substantive discussions with the Association regarding reuniting 28 Mill with Drive with the rest of the Shrewsbury House site, which is its legal status anyway. The obvious mechanism to do this is a community asset transfer, and if the Council wishes us to submit a robust business plan, of course we will do that, but there must be communication in good faith. Presenting a package in support of the CAT will cost the Community Association considerable time, and we estimate a four-figure sum from our reserves, and it would be reckless to undertake this if a commercial developer could short-circuit the process at any time. The Council should hold any disposal until the process we are trying to initiate has run its full course. Thank you. Does any Councillor want to comment? Thank you, Mr Mayor. Can I come in after the other two petitions, please? Thank you, Mr Mayor. Just to comment briefly, obviously, Councillor Tester and I called in this disposal. I don't seek to relitigate the arguments we had at call-in, but I think a really important point has been raised that's relevant to this and other disposals, which is where the community has an opportunity to make a business case for the future of a site. They need time to be able to put that business case together, and I would say they need support from the Council, active support, to be able to do that in as robust a way as possible. I think the concern we've heard tonight is something that did come up at the call-in, which is that the process that is being outlined for these disposals is an extremely tight turnaround, and I think we need to give community groups like Shrewsbury House a fairer stick at putting a robust business case together. And I wanted to endorse what we heard there and make that point and perhaps seek an answer from that from the administration. Leader of the Council, do you have a comment? First of all, thank you, Mr Mayor. And first of all, thank you for bringing forward your petition and note the concern that you have. And Mr Mayor, I think the organisation has reached out to me and at some point that will be acknowledged and we'll be able to sit down and have a conversation. Now, Mr Mayor, look, asset disposals are very difficult things, and we know the recognition and importance that they have in our communities and the difficulties around these decisions. We made this decision in October and simply because of where we are with our position in our budget base. Now, when we dispose of our assets, it was to set a balanced budget, an annual balanced budget that we have to set in this chamber every single year. If we don't set a balanced budget, we can't deliver for the children that we've just seen here today, and we can't deliver for the rest of the services that we see here today. So I think the response notes the point about community asset transfer and the process, and we're open to talking with the community about what that process looks like and clarifying timelines and other things like this. But the asset disposal was helping us fulfil our duties as a council to all of our residents. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Leader. Is Ty Baker here with us? Yes. She says later. Good evening. I'm representing over 2,166 residents, young people and neighbouring boroughs, together with the Riding for the Disabled in Charlton, the garden centre, Woodlands Farm, urging you to save the Greenwich Equestrian Centre for the community as a hub. We genuinely want to collaborate with you regarding the future of the centre at Shooters Hill. Many of you may not have a personal experience with riding or horses, but we wouldn't close the swimming pool simply because we can't swim. Similarly, the facility holds immense value for social care and children's services, as demonstrated by successful equestrian centres in other greater London boroughs, providing tangible benefits for community wellbeing. North Kent College's continued investment and success with the Tunbridge Equestrian Centre demonstrates these facilities can be profitable and sustainable for young people and adults. Greenwich itself had an 18-month waiting list for just 10 free lessons for residents, highlighting strong local demand. 2,166 signatures clearly indicate strong community sentiment and support. Preserving the centre directly aligns with your recent commitments of 20 million to social care and 12 million to children's services, enhancing mental health and providing vital support for vulnerable groups, including Riding for the Disabled and neurodiverse individuals. Tonight, councillors, please choose collaboration over closure and selling this facility, community over development and help us protect this Olympic legacy for the wellbeing of Greenwich residents. Thank you. Does any councillor want to comment on this? Can I invite the leader to respond in the absence of the cabinet member? Thank you, Mr Mayor. I think we rehearsed some of these arguments and discussed this at the call-in that's alluded to the opposition. Again, to highlight those points, this is about difficult decisions that this council has to make, difficult decisions that sadly have to make us sell us assets. We are selling us assets because of 14 years of a Conservative government in which we had 150 million lost from our finances. How do we close the gaps in our budgets? Every year, I'm having to face off how we keep libraries open, Mr Mayor. Every single year, this council sits down together and thinks about how they keep libraries open. We're selling assets and having to think of how we reimagine our assets just so we can keep libraries open for those children that you saw upstairs, Mr Mayor, speaking to us about what they need, what their aspirations are for this borough. Those are hard choices to make and tough choices to make, but we will continue to support our residents to achieve those missions and sometimes reimagining assets is what we have to do to plug the budget, the gap in our budgets that restricts us from doing the work that we want to do for our children and young people. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Leader. Is Barry Gray here with us this evening? Please proceed to the microphone. Right. I'm here to represent the Woodlands Farm Trust. We thank the council for considering the position. We're bitterly disappointed with the outcome, but it was quite predictable. We're asking you to place a pause on the process of disposal of the Equestrian Centre Shooters Hill, a fabulous community and Olympic legacy asset to allow community groups in partnership to develop a funding and management plan for the site. You will know that this is in line with the council's own policies of community engagement and many councillors here will also be members of the cooperative party who have got very, very strong policies on acquiring community assets and protection for the community. So our message to those people, those councillors, is walk it as you talk it and get on and carry out the cooperative party policies. We recognise, of course, that councils face massive problems, but consider this. So have councillors meeting in this chamber over the last century. They've had high infant mortality, sickness amongst children, poor education, terrible housing, but still they've found money and resources to buy with the London County Council, Oxley's Wood and with the co-op, Woodlands Farm and many other areas of open land in that area. So if they could do it, you can certainly do it. You can buy this land for public benefit or you can work with us on a community asset transfer. There is no chance that the community, as was raised originally, can raise finance or place the planning specifics as can developers or hedge funders. It is therefore reasonable to ask for a pause in disposal process to enable a plan to take over the site as an asset of community value. This is a unique area of the borough of London, of London-wide importance. Extensive metropolitan open land includes a large, ancient woodland SSSI, a successful and large community farm with orchards, hay meadows, hedgerows and, at this time of the year, lambs. In most local authorities, this area would be a source of pride and would be cherished. It's not in Greenwich, unfortunately, so we're asking for a pause in the process and a chance to put together a plan that we can discuss with the Council for the acquisition by the community of this site. This is a simple, reasonable and achievable request and it should be heeded by all the Councillors here. Does any Councillor want to comment on that? Councillor Ives-Williams? Thank you, Mr Mayor. I just rise to speak on all three, so I just want to take this opportunity to thank Sally and Andy, but also Barry and Ty as well for the petitions which were submitted. They're lead petitioner, but they're also leaders in their community. As Ty has said, the number of people that sign these petitions exceeds over 2,000 and these petitions, as I've heard at the calling back in January, that these petition signatures were higher than some of our votes, so we just need to listen to residents. Residents spoke at the calling and I just want to take this opportunity to just send my thank you to those residents that they did a brilliant job. But as the petition response has said, we are faced with a mid-term financial challenge and we have to balance those finances, so we have to be reasonable in our expectation. As I've always reminded myself, the cabinet member and fellow colleagues, that the role as a Councillor is not easy. We have to balance the residents' needs as well as the Council's resources and this is what the decision that was made back in November did. What I would urge though, I think the leader had said that he'd welcome and he'll be speaking with the residents and the residents' group. As the leader of the opposition has said, that we need to take into account, we need to pause, don't speed up the process, let's listen to the residents, make time in the agenda so that the groups have put forward their proposal for community asset transfer. And we know it's not a simple task, so it will take time, it will take support, so I do urge the Council to lend that support and that resources, but also urge the community groups to pull on the resources within the community because you can get the support from there given the number of people that signed the petition to put forward a solid, sustainable application or proposal to the Council. I just want to say, I just want to express that us, Councillor Rogers is not here today, but we stand with you, with the community. Do call on us if you need us and we're there to support. We hope that the, I think we've written to the leader and to the cabinet member to ask if they can meet with the Shrewsbury House board as well. Sorry, with the Shrewsbury House board as well, because I think Sally has been pushing for that, so I really appreciate you saying, Anthony, that you will meet with them. Thank you. Councillor Charlie Davies. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and can I echo what was said by Councillor Williams as well? I think Teo and Barry have come this evening and presented their case incredibly well. But unfortunately, the Council's response, again, has been similarly tone deaf to the response we had at that call in January. You know, Barry, Teo, the community didn't come here to hear a party political broadcast from the leader and I think they're making a very reasonable demand of the Council to pause this process and set out a longer term timeline and give the community the respect and time to work with Greenwich and to come up with a solution that works for the community and the Council. And so I think what we're all saying this evening is for the Council to do that and work with the community as much as possible. Thank you. Can I ask the leader of the Council to respond? Thank you, Mr Mayor, and just in the previous petition, you'll see 1.3, you'll see the notice about where it talks about the equestrian centre when it closed and other details there, just noting that point. First of all, Mr Mayor, it is an honourable request to come to this chamber and ask for community space. Let's just set that record straight. That is an honourable and fair request for our residents and where we can, we will work with them to deliver that, which is an important point to note. So I don't want this to be seen in spite of residents. We will work with you in this borough to find good spaces where communities can use. That is a fair and honourable request. Mr Mayor, when we had a fair and honourable request for a community garden on Royal Hill, we didn't give into that sadly, and we couldn't afford to give into that. Actually, what we did is we used that asset to deliver new homes for adults with special education needs. Tough decisions around assets, tough decisions around assets. Now when you go to Royal Hill, what you see is older people in work with special education needs in a new development where they didn't have that before. That's the tough decisions when it comes to assets that we as a council have to make. So when I stand here as leader of the council and listen to the opposition that voted against council housing, but during the election stood in front of it clapping the fact that it got built, I will take no lectures from you when it comes to assets and how we use it. And when you say, excuse me, I am speaking, I don't need you to come in and interrupt me. Mr Mayor, if the leader of the opposition wants to speak, he needs to put his hand up and follow the rules of this chamber. Thank you very much, Mr Mayor. So if he wants to come in and speak, he can follow the rules of the chamber, but I haven't finished. So Mr Mayor, assets are tough, assets are hard, and I hear the honourable request from this community, but what I will say is that there will be some decisions we have to make that are tough and hard. We must set a balanced budget for this council. We must continue to deliver for our residents, just like the way we did in Royal Hill. Go and see that development today. One of these petitions says no flats, there's a housing crisis. None of us should sit in this chamber and pre-determine what will come forward from those asset disposals. None of us should pre-determine what will come forward. It will be wrong for us to do that, but Mr Mayor, go and see, every member in this chamber, go and see what has happened in Royal Hill. Tough decisions around assets, but a tough decision that delivered on the missions we set out for our residents and with our residents. Thank you. Leader of the Opposition, Councillor Hackney. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I will happily, on a procedural point, apologise for interrupting the leader of the council. I think he should apologise for the complete lack of respect that is being shown to the community that has taken the time to organise these petitions and to come and speak at this council meeting tonight. A complete lack of respect. What the community in both cases is asking for is a pause, time and space to develop plans. You've said, the leader has said, we shouldn't pre-determine an outcome. The community hasn't come here and pre-determine an outcome. All they want is a bit of time and a bit of respect and I think they deserve both. Leader of the Opposition. Thank you, Mr Mayor. With respect, Mr Mayor, I think we've noted that we will set up a timeline. We will work with our communities where they need further assets in the community. There has to be a barrow-wide discussion. So, the points he stands on to disagree with, I've acknowledged. He's just showboating. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you. Is Claire Moller with us this evening to address? Thank you. I would now like to ask the council if it agrees to note this report. Thank you. Item 8. Public deputations on matters not otherwise on the agenda. There are no public deputations. Item 9. There are 22 public questions for this evening meeting. The questions, together with the written responses, have been published to the website. Can I remind everyone of the procedures under the council constitution part 4A1I.26 and A1.33? There is a maximum time of 30 minutes for public questions and one supplementary question can be made for clarifications proposed this Monday. Please make your supplementary questions as concise as possible. Can those asking supplementary questions please move to the microphone, press the button to speak, remain standing and speak directly to the microphone when addressing the meeting. Question 1. Lucy Aja. Thank you, Mr Mayor, for inviting me. My supplementary questions are given the concise statistic on the negligence of support for black young people with special needs, autism and ADHD, many of whom, due to lack of adequate support within school and local education system, end up being referred to People Referring Unit. What specific action is the local authority taking to improve early intervention and inclusive support within mainstream schools to prevent this unnecessary reference? Thank you. Thank you. Can I invite cabinet member, Councillor Adel Khera, please? Thank you, Mr Mayor and thank you, Lucy, for your question. We are taking a number of actions here regarding special needs. It is a closed matter to my heart and you are very well aware of that yourself, Lucy. We have looked at the banding, so you can imagine we have got one or two special schools in the borough that are breaking, that can't take the number of young people that need education, special needs education. So we work with local schools to look at how much money they are getting to make sure they have extra resources, to bring extra staffing to work with these young people. We are working with schools to create special parts of the school, called DSPs, for these young people to be teaching and making sure that they are kept within mainstream schools. And also we are building our own special schools, so we are putting investment at an early age. From primary school, we are putting as much investment as possible. But money can go as far, we don't have enough, but we are still doing everything we can. Also to add that our people referral unit deals with a wide range of young people, diverse needs, trauma-informed young people, people that have been through a lot over the years, and they are committed. We only have one people referral unit within the borough, we work with them closely, we monitor them closely, and we also make sure that they work with other schools to make sure that they go into school and help guide schools to keep these young people within schools. Early intervention is a key. Without early intervention, we will have problems in the future. So that is why we are putting as much resources into schools, and mental health hubs within schools is a key, which is going to expand over the years and become a wheel and spoke model, so primary schools can feed into the mental health, to help young people from an early stage. It is working. Last fall council, I described the story of a young girl called Alice that did not want to go to school due to bullying, ADHD, and working with our mental health team within schools, that young girl had increased her attendance within a very short period. So early intervention is the key. We are committed to early intervention. We are going to continue pushing this for the next two years for support for young children with special needs and early intervention. Lucy, anything else you need, please don't hesitate to come back to me. Thank you. From question two, Julian Ekulieff. Can I invite the next question, carry-and-tell, near about to the microphone, please? Will you, Mr. Mayor, and the council, I will nominate Dr. Pascal Uribebo to take this up and write a question for me. Thank you. Dr. Pascal Uribebo. Mayor, good evening. Members of the council and the councilors, good evening to all of you. My name is Dr. Pascal Uribebo. And in good news here, I'm the leader and coordinator for empowerment and the probability for the community. And my question, my supplemental question today is what is the council solution for motivating factor of the challenge outcome of apprenticeship? Candidates not able to complete the course to the end-point assessment and completion due to 18 months long duration that affects the employer's ability to retain their apprenticeship candidate and end-point assessment, which end up clawing back from the employers. And also, how can you improve more on traineeship and AEB short-duration courses, which is not... One question only, please. Okay. Which is more realistically achievable? Thank you. Cabinet member, Councillor Jackie Smith. I'm not sure if I totally understood the question, to be honest, which is my hearing and nothing else. But, you know, I think I outlined in the written answer the things that we're doing to improve apprenticeships. If you've got particular issues that are a problem, then by all means write to me and I will see what we can do to help fix that. We've got a really good track record on providing apprenticeships through partners. We held a successful day in February in National Apprenticeship Week when over 200 young people from our schools came and met with potential employers who were taking on apprenticeships. We constantly deal with young people through our system and through GLAB, which is the route into apprenticeships. But if you are experiencing particular issues in young people in apprenticeships, then, as I said, please write to me and I will try to find you an answer. Thank you. Thank you. Question 3, Karen Chell. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and thanks, Councillor Lococo. Please can you ask your officer to correct the target date for PM2 point pollutants to 2028 rather than 2040? That's quite relevant. And also, will you ensure the new target of 12 micrograms is adhered to as well as to get monitors switched back on around the peninsula near the Silvertown tunnel portals? Thank you. Deputy Leader, Councillor Lococo. I thank Karen Chell for her supplementary and I will take it back. Of course, we make mistakes and I could always... I'm not a mess to rectifying those. Look, this is a very complex thing and we all agree that in an ideal world, we should be able to measure and have that expanse of measurements for PM2 point 5 because that is the actual particulate that's most damaging to us. Greenwich has got more monitoring stations than anywhere in London. Not enough. We're working towards that. In terms of around the Silvertown tunnel, I think my answer states very clearly that we're working with TfL through the stink group, et cetera, to try and see how that monitoring... I know you're on there to see how that monitoring is and there are challenges with that, but it's an ongoing process and all I can say is we will keep on the pressure and the work. Thank you. Thank you. Question for Alison Turner. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I would like to thank the Councillor for her reply. With reference to the Woolwich foot tunnel, is there a definite date for work to start? I appreciate that's difficult because it's new and waiting for specific parts, but could there be a definite date rather than soon to ensure that this free equal opportunities resource doesn't slip away and end up not being reopened? Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Le Cam. I thank you for your supplementary. There's nothing I find more frustrating than the issue of the foot tunnels, I can tell you that. Can I give you a date? No. Am I in control of that date? No. If I am in control and I get that information, yes, you'll get that information too. But I understand your frustrations, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Question five, Alison Turner. Fine, thank you, if you don't have submitted your summary. Question six, Ferdi Cholevan. Thank you. My question was about equalities. The answer I got unfortunately is completely missed the point and it's not really an answer at all. But I will ask a supplementary question asking basically the Council's obligation on the equalities of 2010, I believe should be going beyond, and I will assume that you all agree with it, that the bar should be beyond just the legal obligation, that people should feel, communities should feel that they are treated equally. Unfortunately, there is a Palestinian community that is completely feeling absolutely second rated, not being treated well at all. And there isn't much, they do feel that they haven't had a proper recourse for their grievances. Now, my question is, would the Council actually take this on as very serious and acknowledge that there is a deficit here and there is a need to deal with this? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Mr Mayor and thank you Mr Seaman for your question. The Council does everything it can to make sure that every community feels listened to and supported. I don't really understand the essence of the grievance. I mean, if it's, you know, related to hate crime, then there's a definite way to process that. If it's to do with, you know, the work that we're doing with different communities through the multi-faith forum, then we could move it forward. You know, I just feel like I need a bit more information. Maybe we can answer that. Well, this isn't a dialogue, I'm afraid. So I think that maybe we should meet and perhaps discuss this more in detail because I don't have enough to go on at the moment. Thank you. For Mr Seaman, for question seven please. Right, question seven is basically, again, I think the point was missed on the answer that I had to that question. The question was, do we feel that there is a procedure for when communities do feel aggrieved that there is a recourse. Now, you did state that there are complaints procedures and everything else that. People have tried that, they've used all the complaint procedures, but nothing, the Palestinian community basically feel that they have not been answered. They have not, the grievance that they have, the complaint procedures are not really delivering any satisfaction on that. Can you ask your question? Can we, can that be addressed in a more serious way by taking people's feelings that there are other communities that are being treated different to how they are and answer these questions and deal with people's feelings so that there is absolute equality? Councillor Bell? It is working now. So, as you've outlined, there is an escalation, but if you don't feel happy with a response, you can move it onto a complaint. And you can also, you may remember that the chair of the standards committee was here tonight and that is the ultimate step. You can take it to the standards committee if you feel that a member has not been listening to you and you've got a good complaint to make. But I really do feel, Mr Suleiman, if we sit down and talk and I can understand a bit better, perhaps we can come to some kind of, instead of this impasse, a little bit closer together. For question 8, Karen Teel. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'm afraid it's the foot tunnels again. Maybe it's time for TfL to take control because between three councils you don't seem able to resolve this situation. What are your thoughts? Councillor de Kair. Thank you for keeping me on this topic. Look, I think my answer says it all. These lifts are akin to fixing an old car that you have to make the new parts for every time the car is broken. They are bespoke. So we don't have people around where we can just say we're getting these parts. In order to change them, and because of the structure of the lift shaft, it's going to be a very costly procedure, process. We're talking with partners, we're talking with TfL because £10 million is beyond a figure that we have readily available. As you've heard here over the other issues that have been raised here in this chamber, money is under pressure. We're struggling with core services. So what we are doing and what we continue to do is to try and repair this old banger that is the lift that we have. We are trying as fast as we can. We've got a better system of trying to be responsive, but it is an ongoing problem. Thank you. Thank you, George. Edgar, question 9, please. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you, Councillor, for the response to my question, which is about section 106 funds. I would like to ask for clarification of one particular point in the response. The response says work is ongoing to better understand the make-up of around £9 million of unspent transport S106 funds. Work to date suggests that of this, roughly £5 million is identified for measures related to bus improvements. And then the answer continues, and I won't read out the whole of it. But I'm sorry if I've misunderstood this, but this reads as if the Council has £9 million of funds for which it doesn't know how they are allocated. Is that the case? And if so, how is it that that is the case? Thank you. Thank you for your supplementary question. I just need to say that when section 106 and civil money, they're very often very clearly defined. So, for example, if you've got a new development and you're going to need to have a bus route that's going through, that money is set aside, so it's there. And that's why when we talk about a certain amount for bus routes, this is to keep in pace with the developments that are going around the borough. So, they are earmarked for certain things. In other cases, so that was the sort of big sum, the circa £5 million. But even within that, where you've had developments, there is some section 106 that's earmarked very much for specific work that's going on within that. And sometimes we have to wait for the development to be done to be able to then implement those bids. So, we know what the money is to be spent on. It's drawing down on it when it's ready to be drawn down on. It's not just sitting there willy-nilly, so to speak. Thank you. Thank you. George Edgar for question 10, please. Thank you. Question 10 related to the council's green bond. Will the council commit to making public the decisions that's taken on allocating those funds? And will the council ensure that that information is accessible to those who have invested in the green bond? Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Mr Edgar, for your supplementary. Of course, this will be in the public domain because we are transparent in our transactions in that way. I mean, you can't say where the individual's money has gone to in terms of projects, but you can take the whole sum and say how much has been ascribed to each project, you know, whether it's heat source pumps or solar paneling or whatever. I have to declare an interest. I'm not allowed to invest. I wanted to, but it seems a conflict of interest. But I really believe in this scheme and in fact, I can tell you now, Mr Edgar, that you'll have another chance this autumn to put your money where your mouth is, my dear, and invest even more. So can I thank you for your investment and say that we're absolutely delighted with the number of green projects and retrofitting that we've been able to get off the stocks. Thank you. Thank you. For questions, 11, Lisa Voski. 12, Lisa as well. Question 13, Mariana Villa. Question 14, Mariana Villa. Question 15, Helen Merati. Question 16, Maria Freeman. Question 17, Aisling Gwynn. Question 18, Aisling Gwynn. Question 19, Joe Jeffery. Question 20, Lubna Svetin. We ask this council how it will respond to demands for the rejection of the IHRA definition of antisemitism by over 100 human rights organisations supported also by its author, Kenny Stern. This definition is being weaponised to suppress Palestinian voices, human rights advocacy and the views of anti-Zionist Jews. Its political purpose is to shield Israel from criticism, with seven of its 11 examples conflating antisionism with antisemitism. For instance, it claims calling Israel a racist endeavour is antisemitic. This is the question. And under your constitution, I have two minutes to ask it, so I really appreciate if you'd respect that and let me have my two minutes. Its political purpose is to shield Israel from criticism, with seven of its 11 examples conflating antisionism with antisemitism. For instance, it claims calling Israel a racist endeavour is antisemitic. Yet Israel is an ethno-nationalist state built on Palestinian subjugation. This is racism. By equating criticism of Israel, I have two minutes under your own constitution. Why am I interrupted every time? If there's not enough questions for all residents, maybe you should extend your question time, but I'm doing this under two minutes. It is time to fit under two minutes. I'd really appreciate if you'd respect that. By equating this, this definition sets a dangerous precedent, shielding oppressive regimes from scrutiny and restricting free speech and advocacy for Palestinian rights. It undermines efforts to combat actual antisemitism, making it harder to challenge genuine anti-Jewish discrimination. Everyone deserves protection from hate and discrimination, but the IHRA instead further promotes hatred by stifling criticism of Zionism. Can you ask the question, please? The ICJ has ruled there is a plausible... The time is given for you for the supplementary question. It's two minutes that's given to me. It's not the time, but you are given time for the supplementary question. This is exactly what I mean about the stuff. Every time we speak on Palestine, there are attempts to suppress our voices. Why is that? And this is exactly what I'm challenging. Two minutes we have under your constitution. Can I finish my question? Ask the question, please. It is a supplementary question. I still have two minutes. It's under your own constitution. We urge the council to rescind this definition, this politically motivated flawed definition, which fuels injustice, inequality and the Palestinians. This demand is backed by Jewish Voice for Labour, Rabbi Beck, Rabbi Weiss and many others who I have a supporting statement from, I will send you. We know many councillors did not fully understand the implications of adopting this definition. You need to ask the question. This is a question section. This is a question. We hope that in now knowing and in the face of the horrors taking place against Palestinians that this will be changed. We call upon the council to take a determined stand against racism, rescind the IHRA definition. Leave it up against us. Two respondents, please. Thank you, Mr Mert. According to our constitution, when you have a supplementary question, it must relate to the original question that was asked. Now, from my reading of that, I don't think it applies to what was as described in the papers. However, I think the answer in the paper is sufficient to what we stand for as a council. Thank you. Thank you, Leda. For question 21, David Excalves. Three minutes. For question 22, Mosey Masters. Now, item 10, members' questions. There are 40 written members' questions and these, together with the responses, have been published to the websites. Are these questions and responses received? Thank you. I will call out the number of each question in turn. Can any member who wishes to ask a supplementary question please indicate? Priority will be given to the original questioner. One supplementary question is allowed on each of the matters. For question 1, Councillor Hadley. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Can I thank the leader of the council for his answer to this first question. As I've said before, all the residents of Royal Artillery Quays want is to know that the council is on their side with this. And they haven't felt that up to January, so I'm pleased that the council has at least started to engage with residents. My supplementary is this. A proposal has been made to the leader by the RAQ Residents Association that the council has the power to apply for an injunction against Barrett Homes under section 36.6 of the Building Act 1984 to ensure building regulation breaches at the time of construction are addressed. I understand the leader promised to look into that suggestion. Has he done so and what conclusion did he reach? Thank you, Mr Mayor. First of all, I thank Councillor Hartley for bringing this question back to the chamber because it allows us to detail the work that we're doing. And I don't think I disagree. I think I disagree with his assessment that all the residents feel that way. Because from when I've knocked on doors, I don't think that's the joint consensus on that point there. So, Mr Mayor, first of all, one thing I would say is that, first of all, from the meeting we held, ably chaired by Councillor Taggart-Ryan, this council is committed to continuing engaging and bringing statutory organisations together like the Fort London Fire Brigade, like the Building Safety Regulator, to help and support residents through this process. Yes, the question has been asked for me, but I would make this point here. There are still ongoing investigations by the Building Safety Regulator. Who has the responsibility for buildings over 18 metres? We need to hear the results of that. That's really important. It would be wrong for this council to knock out an enforcement action outside of hearing what the designated Building Safety Regulator has to say. We as a council can't pre-determine that process. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you. Councillor Mark Hartley for question two. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Can I thank the leader of the council for his answer and for listing the meetings he held at the conference. We've talked before about the importance of protecting both the integrity of the planning system but also perceptions of the integrity of the planning system. I know he agrees with me on that. Will he consider making a commitment that he and his cabinet will publish a full list of meetings with developers on an ongoing basis, just in the interest of transparency? I'm struggling to think of a good reason why the leader of the council wouldn't want to do that. Leader. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I have to say, look, this is FOI'd every year. I think through the FOI process we always publish it. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Councillor Hartley for question three. You can save the FOI time team the effort and show a bit of transparency. Can I thank the leader of the council for his answer to this question. I have to say, I find it really unsatisfactory that this year one of only nine opportunities that members of the public have to present petitions and raise questions was taken away through the conversion of last month's meeting to a special council meeting. It's the first year that has happened. We had an additional special meeting in 2024 but in 2025 we've had one fewer opportunity for members of the public to engage. So, can I urge them to think again and my supplementary is could we just discuss it between us as leaders of the two groups on this council well before the decision is made next year because I really think we need to restore all nine meetings for the public. Leader. Thank you, Mr Mayor. First of all, members of the public are encouraged to engage at full council. We've seen that today. They are encouraged to work to their ward councillors and raise issues in their communities. Members of our residents have the opportunity to engage with us at democracy. We hold ward surgeries. The special budget council that we do is to debate matters for our residents. We have to fight a legal responsibility to set a budget, Mr Mayor. A legal responsibility that means detailing and spending time to set a budget, set a budget out for our residents that is able to deliver for them in the missions as we've articulated them in our village. So, I think we need that space to be able to do that, hence why we're committed to still holding a special council meeting. Thank you. But happy to engage in discussions that the opposition wants. Thank you. Question for Matt Hadley. He snatched a yes from the jaws of a no, I think, in that answer. I look forward to talking with him further about it. Can I thank the deputy leader of the council for her answer to this fourth question about the staggeringly low number of applications from Greenwich, small business owners and charities for the deeply inadequate discounts for the Silvertown and Blackwall tunnel tolls. She says in her answer that TfL is running a comprehensive awareness campaign and she's detailed how that's supported by the council. It clearly is running a campaign. It's clearly costing a lot of money and it's clearly not working. So, could I ask, has the council been in contact with Transport for London to revisit this since those figures emerged that show that barely anybody is taking advantage of these discounts? And if that contact hasn't been made, could she get on that with Newham and the other boroughs to figure out what's gone wrong? Deputy leader. I thank you, Councillor Hardly, for your supplementary. Yes, we do have meetings. I mean, we've been meeting with TfL really on a weekly basis for several things, including this. Of course, these figures for me were very concerning as well. And, you know, this is a discussion we'll continue to have with our counterparts in the other boroughs because from my point of view, it will be interesting to know if there are any differences and look at what they're doing. But, you know, as soon as I saw these figures, I was, you know, the first to say, look, we need to see how much we push this and we need to see how successful our efforts are. So, if we're on social media, are we getting any bite from that? So, what are the results of our actions is what I'll be looking at. Thanks. Question 5, Councillor Hardly. Thank you, and thank you for that answer. Can I thank the deputy leader for her answer to these questions on the Greenwich and Blackheath LTNs. Can I just push her on the air quality monitoring points? So, she's listed the roads. I asked which roads were being monitored for air quality. But nowhere in that list does appear Eastcombe Avenue or Victoria Way. And I'm really concerned that the council isn't air quality monitoring those roads because all the feedback I've seen from residents in Charlton suggests that air quality is getting much worse on those two roads as a result of this scheme. Deputy leader, Councillor Lekere. I thank Councillor Hardly for his supplementary. Let me just say that air doesn't stay static. So, the advice we've got is that we have a reasonable number of air quality monitoring stations in and around the area. And, as I said, we do have more air quality monitoring stations than most boroughs, but particularly in that area, and added to which, you know, the air quality monitoring stations around the Silvertown. So, if we're finding from evidence that there's anything that we need to be looking at further there, we'll do that. But I think that, so far, on advice, we've got a sufficient number. Thank you. Question 6, Councillor Hardly. Question 7, Councillor Hardly. Question 8, Councillor Hardly. Question 9, Councillor Hardly. Thank you. She's just trying to stop me asking questions. It's a theme. Thank you, Councillor Cowell. Can I thank Councillor Bower for her answer to this question on Marian Wilson Animal Park? I'm pleased that she's got a meeting coming up next month. And it's a similar theme to what we heard earlier, really, about other community groups. Could she give some assurance that when she speaks with the Friends groups and Riding for the Disabled, that those groups will be given the time and space and support to come forward with ideas and work up those ideas into a potential business case for the future of the Animal Park? And could she make sure that happens outside of the budget-setting process so we don't have a repeat of what happened this year? Councillor Bower. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you, Councillor Hardly, for your supplementary question. The short answer is yes. Question 10, Councillor Hardly. That's not just a short answer, it's the shortest answer, and it's very welcome, thank you. Speak to your colleagues. We like yeses, we like yeses. Can I thank, we get a lot of noes, but we like yeses. Can I thank Councillor Bower for her answer to this next question on Coldharbour Adventure Playcentre and the Playcentre's review more widely. Just echoing what Councillor Tester said in handing in that petition signed by 1300 people, there really is a need to provide clarity on the future of specific sites like Coldharbour Adventure Playcentre in our ward. So could I urge her to give that clarity as soon as possible, and as my supplementary, could I ask specifically how will young people be involved rather than just consulted in the redesign of the service, following the recommendation from overview and scrutiny? Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you very much for your supplementary question. The leader and I had a really good meeting with Mr Saku, who you were dealing with last week, and I felt that he was able to tell us how he was feeling, tell us how the staff were feeling, and I think that I'm acutely aware of how not knowing what's going to happen can affect parents, the users and the staff. So we're going to go about this as quickly as we can, and of course we want the young people to be involved in reimagining what we're going to do. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you to the leader for his answer, although it's a shame he hasn't found the time to raise this with his friends in government. But given the ever-evolving defence landscape and commitment to increase the defence budget, will the leader join us and everyone in this chamber in renewing calls for the decision to be reviewed, and will the council lobby for the site to be repurposed as part of the new defence industrial strategy, potentially as a new intel and cyber security hub? Thank you, Mr Mayor, and first of all I'd like to thank Charlie Day to bring this matter to this chamber, because it's important that we recognise this council's position, so I'm happy to raise that with the government. Thank you. Next question. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you to the cabinet member for his answer. I assume in his absence the leader will be responding. And it's holding news that the council does not anticipate any delay, given the vital role of the local plan in shaping the future of our borough. The new bill, the Planning and Infrastructure Bill, looks to limit the involvement of councillors and residents in the planning process. Does the leader agree with the government that Whitehall mandarins are a better place to decide which applications should go to committee, rather than local residents and councillors? Thank you, Mr Mayor. What I disagree with is people like the opposition that sit on council planning meetings and vote council housing down, which they have a record of doing that, so I don't agree with them. We already have delegated decisions in planning and that happens all the time. Thank you. A point of personal explanation, if I may. I suggest the leader, this is the second time he said it, I suggest the leader of the council checks the minutes of the local planning committee and the planning board, because he'll find plenty of examples of the support in council housing in this borough. Next question, Councillor Davies. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you to the cabinet member for her response. She mentions leaseholders being charged their fair share, and I think leaseholders don't think they shouldn't pay. The issue is fairness and the exorbitant amount they are being charged. But looking ahead, it sounds like the changes mentioned in the cabinet member's answer are very welcome. And as the overall programme progresses, can she confirm that the council will continue to review and adapt their communication and engagement strategy, and that RBG will ensure that residents' and leaseholders' feedback continues to be incorporated? And hopefully this is another short answer, like Councillor Bowers. Councillor Slattery. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Davies. You're going to like this? Yes. Next question. You've finished? Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you to the cabinet member for her answer again. Will she commit to ensuring that no work is commenced on the middle park estate to leaseholder properties until talks have been concluded with access? And will she really push alongside officers access to commit to changing that classification? It will make a significant saving for leaseholders on the middle park estate and elsewhere in the borough. Councillor Slattery. The discussions are over with access. Access. Access. I just draw attention to the fact that in my answer I name checked my colleagues, Councillor May and Councillor Taggart-Ryan. You ask occasional trenchant questions, Councillor Davies, but it's nothing compared to the ear bashing, collegiate discussion I have with them in the last couple of weeks. And together we have tasked officers to speak to access and they have agreed a reduction and to reclassify to Masonettes. What that looks like in practice is being worked out and the leaseholders will be the first to know. Questioner 2. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you to the cabinet member and that's very welcome news in her last answer. I feel like we might get to the end of members' questions without having an argument over my questions as well. So thank you and thank you for her response to this. I think we discussed it in the HRA budget, but the work on voids that's being done by officers is very welcome and officers and the cabinet members should be commended for that work. Her answer alludes to part of the issue, which is the poor state of some of our housing stock. And what can the council do on that to minimise the time properties are spending as voids? Councillor Slattery. They are being minimised and we'll bring more performance reports. I'm kind of glad you've alluded to what can we do about it because you quite often gloss over the fact that I'm spending 400 million pounds on our residents' homes to improve them and only focus on leaseholders' invoices, which are important. But we are spending 400 million pounds on improving and modernising our properties. And increasingly, you will see the turnover speeding up. Some of the reason why it's been slow is these historic voids. They didn't get done in COVID, they're full of asbestos, they're dragging down productivity, but they're being cleaned out of the system gradually. Thanks. Question 19. Question 20. Councillor Maria Cattini. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and may I quickly just also add my, I'm not too sure whether it's congratulations or whatever, but I suppose the cost of living crisis is affecting us all, so this is your last meeting, I understand, from earlier. So I just wanted to add my voice to that. I'm grateful to the response from the cabinet member of Community Safety and Enforcement for her response to my question. It serves as an opportunity to just refresh everybody's memory with the number of things that's been done by this council to try and curb the proliferation of criminal activities involving knives. After 14 years of the brutal and cruel dangerous austerity cuts to frontline policing by the last Conservative government, it's pleasing to hear that the new Labour government is launching its toughest crackdown on knife crime. It is disgraceful that suppliers are not being held to account for the sales of dangerous zombie knives to the public, and especially our children. No one should be profiting off of murder, and it's communities like ours, like mine in Abbeywood, for example, that pay the price. I welcome the government's new plans that will force suppliers to report any bulk or suspicious-looking purchases on their platform to the police. I will do. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Will the Council continue to work closely with the new government to tackle the epidemic of knife crime on our streets that is robbing the precious lives of so many of our young people? Thank you. Councillor Rachel Tegerdine. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and I would like to thank Councillor Cousins for her supplementary question. Yes, we will of course be holding the government to account of the implementation of its much-welcomed new legislation toughening up on the sale of knives, and zombie knives particularly, and other offensive weapons, and I would like to take this opportunity to announce that we will be installing a further amnesty box in the Woolwich Arsenal ward, and hopefully the installation will be happening within the next few weeks to a month, and I will be able to give details to Councillors when that is happening. So we are taking steps within the – we're already taking quite extensive steps from education all the way through to prosecution and tackling knife crime on our streets, and this is another step that we are taking. Thank you. Councillor John Farhi for question 21. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you, Councillor Lecow, for your response. It's clearly evident that the saga of the Rochester Way 2 continues, and it seems to me two problems arise. One, why is there a budget issue with regard to cleansing of the A2, and perhaps you might write to me confirming why this is the case. In addition, it would be extremely helpful to have a more coordinated approach with TFL and the Council about the timescale in this important road being cleaned on a more regular basis. Thank you. Councillor Lecow. I thank Councillor Farhi for his supplementary. Look, it is difficult because, of course, the A2 is one of those roads that requires a lot more in terms of stopping. I think it's a little bit like the one to Thamesmead. You just have to block parts of the road in order to do some of the cleansing. I agree with you that it needs attention. As I've said in my answer, we've had some challenges, but we're trying to address that and get that up to speed or up to scratch, as the case may be. Anything further, I'll be quite happy to have a discussion with you on this. Would you like me to stay standing? Thank you. Question 22. Councillor Farhi. Councillor Mazzolani for question 23. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you, Councillor Babatola, for your answer. If I understand your answer correctly, to my question, how many companies providing support to Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories? Have now been removed from the portfolios in which the Greenwich Pension Fund is invested. If I understand your answer, the answer is none. Zero. So, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that is how I've understood the answer. I started asking questions about the pension fund last July. It's now March, and I understand that there are collective funds, and the Greenwich Pension Fund cannot take unilateral decisions. However, I have another suggestion for the Greenwich Pension Fund, which I hope you will adopt. I'm sure that the members who are invested in the pension fund, the employees of the Council and others, have heard of the Academy Awards. The Academy Award winner for best documentary of the documentary about the Palestinians, No Other Land, was recently attacked and imprisoned by Israeli settlers. Now, the question is, will you survey those members of the Council, those who are invested or have pensions, which are controlled by the fund, will you survey them to see what their views are on their pension fund supporting the infrastructure that led to the illegal Israeli settlers attacking this man's home? Thank you. Councillor Davutola. So, point of order, Chair. Look, questions in this Chamber have to be a supplementary to the question, and all members of our side have to respect that process. I don't think the question answers are supplementary to this question. Thank you. Thank you, Leader, for your... Thank you, Mr Mayor. I thank you once again for your supplementary question. Yes, your answer, the answer you gave me or the question you asked is yes, I have not or we, the panel, have not diverse from any company. However, as you heard from the explanation I've given, so far we are consulting and engaging and speaking to at least 17 companies. Based on our finding on the 31st of December, which shows that we have 0.16% of 1.8 billion exposed to that. Not only that that has given us that figure, but at the same time it has given us those companies which we are engaging with. And the panel will not take a decision that is against the law or our fiduciary duty. However, if I have further information, not only I will email you, I will email all the Councillors so that we are able to respond to questions from residents. However, this panel, since we've started, the pension fund has successfully become a signatory to UK code of statutory, which means that we are highly committed to responsible investment. And I think it's only a few local authorities in London that are signatory to that. That's one of them. Because we listen, we have transitioned $237.5 million to low-carbon energy funds. Just last meeting, the panel meeting, we committed $45 million to sustainable forestry, agricultural fund, which means when people speak to us, we listen to them and then we make a move. However, we cannot take a rational decision which, in the law court, we could be challenged. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Babatola. Question 24. Councillor Masalani, please. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Councillor locale, thank you very much for your response. However, what my question asked was relating to monitors of the feeder roads, not just at the entrance to the Silvertown Tunnel. As you know, the Silvertown Tunnel will open on the 7th of April, so in 10 days' time. This will invite large HGVs to take a new route throughout the borough of Greenwich. The TFL have, as you know, clarified to the recent Transport Scrutiny Committee that they will not be erecting further air monitors themselves. And in fact, they've said, well, perhaps the council should do it. Of course, we all know how difficult it is for the council in this current budget, et cetera, to just spend money on these things. However, I'm asking you to consider and ask whether you will go back to your offices and ask them if they will investigate the much less expensive, small monitors of specifically the PM2.5, which you yourself earlier this evening mentioned has now been discovered by scientists as the most pernicious, a small particulate, especially for children's lungs. Will the council, will your council officers, will you instruct your council officers to look into the new monitors that are coming online, which are much less expensive, and which will then be able to monitor right back through the borough about how, what levels of PM2.5 we are experiencing from this new traffic of the HGVs entering the borough because the Silvertown Tunnel can accommodate them? Thank you. I thank Councillor Anning for her supplementary. You know, I can sit down and say to you, of course, I'm going to ask my own officers to explore. That's not saying I'm committing my officers. I could say that. And I share your interest and your concerns about trying to understand the level of pollution at this level, you know, for these small particulants. But also, I mean, I would question the sagacity of any information that we get after the horse has bolted in a sense. So even if I did ask the officers to go and explore that, even if we did, were able to put some in, we would be measuring after the Silvertown. That would never happen before the Silvertown Tunnel. So we would not really have a comparator. What we would be able to do is to say we're looking from now onwards. But, of course, looking into something is not something that I would say no to. Thank you. Thank you, Deputy Leader. Can I humbly give the reminder to the colleagues that we are hitting 9.30 and we still have half days on the left. So can we gently use our skill of summarising our points when we ask the question or respond, please? Now, question 25. Councillor Gardner. No supplementary, Mr Mayor. Question 26. Thank you, Councillor Gardner. Question 26, Councillor St Antigone. No supplementary, Mr Mayor. Thank you. 27. No supplementary, Mr Mayor. Question 28. Councillor Vosgin. I have a supplementary, Mr Mayor. Where's my cabinet? I thank the cabinet member for the response. Yes, as I said before, the cost of living is biting us. It's wonderful to see that 4,000 of our residents have been assisted to increase their income, which obviously assists the economy. Will the cabinet member convey my thanks for the work that the welfare rights team are doing as it positively impacts and improves the lives of many financially vulnerable residents? And also I would ask for all colleagues to push these services to their vulnerable residents to help improve their financial situation. Thank you. Councillor Jackie Smith. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you, Councillor Cousins. I most certainly will pass on those wishes. Our welfare rights teams are, amongst other vital members of council staff, our unsung heroes. They quietly get on with things and they help residents every day. We will be shortly publishing a new version of Greenwich Supports, which will have updated information in it and updated ways that people can get in touch with the help that they need, which seems to be growing daily. So thank you, Councillor Cousins, and we most certainly will pass on that. Thank you. Question 29, Councillor Lee. Is that on? Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you, Councillor Satterly, for your answer. I do have a supplementary. My supplementary is how has the situation changed since the initial stock condition survey for Capital Works programme that was carried out by Savills? Councillor Satterly. Sorry, it's me. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Maye. The primary change, Councillor Maye, is that that was done in 2017, and I think we all know what's happened to prices since then. Thank you. Question 30. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I do have a supplementary for my next question. I thank Councillor Satterly for her reply. Can I ask how the, sorry, at what point in the process can leaseholders expect to receive financial accounts? Thank you, Councillor Slattery. Did you say financial accounts? Sorry, thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Maye. Financial accounts, do you mean their final invoices? Yes, okay. They're usually the final ones, so they get the estimate upfront, consultation period, 30 days. We take into account some of the things they've said if we can, and we have done so, as you know, and I commend you both again for very good championing of your local constituents. And then within 18 months, they'll get a final version, which will be based on the actual cost of the works, which may be lower or may be higher, although I've indicated already that I'm hoping that some of the bills that they get in the next few weeks, the estimates will be lower than they've had before, because we've listened about the definition of Masonettes. Thanks. Thank you. Councillor Pat Greenwell for question 31. Yes, thank you, Chair, and I have got supplementaries, because I always seem to have to wait right until the end for all the questions. Absolutely. As sorter as possible. Yes, I will. Well, thank you and welcome the response from Councillor Taggart-Ryan regarding knife boxes, the installation of knife boxes in the locations in the borough. I'm aware that the costs of the box in Sutcliffe Park were met through sponsorship from a construction consultant. And in the future, will the council actively seek further sponsorship out of the locations? And is this something further down the line that can be sought through council planning agreements with developers? But thank you very much for your response. Thank you. Councillor Taggart-Ryan. Thank you, Ms. Mayor, and I thank Councillor Greenwell for her question, her supplementary. This is something that is open to being explored, especially in developments at home. I will caution my response with that, as you see in my initial response, this is still in the trial phase of this scheme. We haven't actually had the official count from the opening of the two boxes that we've already installed. We had an initial count, which you've seen that we've put out some figures about that. That was because one of the boxes was filled early, and we had an early emptying of it through our partner organisation, Words for Weapons. So, there is a methodology to this, and where bins are placed, where they'd be most advantageous, and where they won't be cited to interfere with each other or diminish their effect. So, we will be working with officers very closely to monitor the trial data that's coming through and determining whether there is a need for further boxes in the future. But this is a methodology that's led by our partner organisations, and I think it is a case of waiting to see whether this is successful before we move on to determining how we will fund further boxes. Thank you. Question 32. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and I thank Councillor Kyrie for his answer to my question on the impact of the closure of Galion's school. Whilst it is welcome to hear that support is being given, he will know that parents and staff remain deeply upset. Can he guarantee that all pupils will be accommodated in suitable and popular local schools, even if this means expanding the numbers of places in particular schools? And will he do his utmost to avoid compulsory staff redundancies? Yes, thank you. Thank you. Councillor Kane. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Yes, we are doing everything we can to support these young people. We are giving a bespoke one-to-one support to go into local school. By the end of the day, it's a decision of the parents of our school they want to take their children to, and we will support them with that and continue to work with parents. The priority of children and young people is top on our agenda here, especially working with all the children in Galion Mount. And also, as the staff consultation is still ongoing, there's not much I can add to that, but we're going to do everything to work with the staff and continue to support them. Thank you. Question 33. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and I thank Councillor Carey for his response regarding the consultation that took place with Galion School. Whilst there were formal consultation processes that took place before the final decision to close, parents, staff and the local community don't feel that they were actually listened to during the process. Can I ask the cabinet member if he really is completely satisfied with how the council communicated over this issue, and is there anything that could have been done better? Thank you. Councillor Cairns. Thank you, Chair. I have already raised this in cabinet. Communication could have been better, and we are going to continue to improve, and we're going to make sure that going forward, we look at our strategy around communication with parents around any particular school closure in the future. But one thing I would like to raise here today is that this decision was not done lightly. It was a difficult decision, but it was for the best interest of the school. It was going to be in a major deficit. It was going to be in a state of so bad that teachers would have left, because the deficit there would have been, and the school would have been in extreme crisis. And we've done the best thing we can to support these children to move to our schools locally. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you. Question 34. Thank you, Mr Mayor. And again, I thank Councillor Carey for his response. He talks about a formal review of Young Greenwich and family support. Can I just ask that local councillors, please, can be involved with this process? And I say this because of the various centres, and also because in Avery Hill, we have got a fantastic youth club, which is open twice a week. And really, the people who run it are incredibly dedicated and work very, very hard. And that would, you know, I hope that remains. But can you make sure that you do consult with local councillors, please? Councillor Carey. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Greenwell. The answer is yes, thank you. Question 35, please. Thank you, Mr Mayor. And I thank Councillor Taggart-Ryan for her response regarding dog fouling bins. Actually, what I'm interested in is, because this is a difficult one, and I'm finding that there are more and more incidents of dog fouling. And as I said in my question, it's because I think during COVID, people have now got more dogs. You mentioned, which I'm really interested in, problem-solving project on the Woolwich Common Estate, where additional signage and visible enforcement took place, and apparently this was very successful. Could I sort of talk to you about that sometime, and possibly we could arrange to do that locally in Eltham? Thank you. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you, Councillor Greenwell. Yes, I would be happy to share a written response and to speak with you about the data from the Woolwich Common Estate, where there's been a lot of grassroots action on antisocial behaviour, fly-tipping, and a number of those kind of issues of which dog fouling is one. Please also feel free, if you believe there is a hotspot within your ward where dog fouling has become a particular issue, and if you have any intelligence from your residents that would lead us and our enforcement officers to finding the culprits of this instance, that would be very helpful. Thank you. Councillor Roger Tester for question 36. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and I thank the cabinet member for her latest response to this question on traffic measures in West Hallows. While it is encouraging that progress is now being made, as Councillor Rachael is aware, residents have waited a very long time for the measures to go in, and we the ward Councillors have pushed her several times for a clear timetable. Can we ask that the implementation be brought forward so the measures can be in place as soon as is physically possible? Thank you. Councillor Rachael. I thank Councillor Tester for his supplementary, and I find it quite interesting, because having listened to your colleague earlier on talking about length of time for consultations, I mean these things need to be done in the right time. You can't just say we're consulting and then say we're bringing it, we'll implement very quickly. We need to take the appropriate time to take the appropriate action, and I think that's what you'd expect us to do. Thank you. Thank you. Question 37. 38, 39, 40. Thank you so much. Thank you. Next are water questions to members of the Cabinet, and up to 10 minutes in total are allowed. Could you please indicate by raising hands if you wish to ask a question? Councillor Hartley. Thank you, Mr Mayor. A quick question for the Leader of the Council. I don't know if the Leader of the Council is a regular listener to LBC, but I'm sure he will have noted the comments of the MP for Greenwich and Woolwich when he was asked on air yesterday about whether he would accept freebie tickets to concerts at the O2. Here's what Matthew Penicott said in response. I don't personally think it's appropriate. If I want to go to a concert at the O2, I'll pay for it, and I couldn't agree with him more. So in light of those very sensible comments from our local MP, will the Leader of the Council revisit his own stance on this, as I've called for him to do previously, and commit to just saying no to freebies in the future? Leader. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I kind of sensed this question was coming from Councillor Davies' Twitter and the piece on the Greenwich Wire. Mr Mayor, I think Nick Ferrari spoke really well. He said, those leaders who have a real stake in their borough, who need to go and engage with organisations, should be the ones going. I'm that figure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Charlie Davies. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and I believe this question will be for the Leader. But in recent months at full council, we've had a number of incidents where questions from members of the public have been ruled as not being allowed to be taken. We have that for residents in Middle Park. We had it for questions relating to Hyde Housing, and we've had it this month with the RAQ as well. Can the council look at the fact, I know two of these cases where the council claims it was not relevant to actions the council could take, which I think the residents would definitely argue with. So can the council look at this, and where the council is looking to rule questions out, can the council engage with residents to ensure that their question is worded or asked in a way that that question can still be taken as part of the meeting? Leader. Thank you, Mr Mayor. First of all, I feel disappointed that the opposition is politicising this process a little bit, because I think when questions are asked by the public, our legal services takes a view in line with our constitution. I think it's really important, and I just note this for this meeting, it is the responsibility of our legal team to uphold our constitution, number one. It is the responsibility of members to uphold the constitution, because when we stand here and take questions and say to the public they must follow supplementary, we all equally need to demonstrate that as well. So we all need to follow the constitution. Now given an example of one of the questions that was asked of the council, can the council set out why the fire brigade didn't issue an enforcement on other buildings? I can't guess. This organisation cannot guess the responsibilities of a statutory authority like the fire brigade in its processes and its investigations. It is a statutory legal responsibility for them to fulfil things, and I can't begin, or neither should this council begin to set out the London fire brigade's reasoning. So when a question like that is rejected, it goes back to the constituent explaining that, and that is the process this council always does. I've seen the responses that have gone out to those residents, and it explains that. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Councillor Hadley. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'm sorry, I'm not having the facts, this accusation that anybody on this side is politicising the constitution, but let's just take the example, the very example that the leader of the council gave, the question that was ruled out of order. That question also said, will they, the council, push the London fire brigade to reassess the other seven buildings? That was about the council, what the council can do, and I think Councillor Davies has raised a very important point, which is I think the council, we think the council needs to do more to help residents ask questions that are in line with the constitution, and we would appreciate if that, on behalf of residents, if that could be looked at. Nobody's politicising anything. This is just about making sure that residents, sorry, you can get up and speak if you like, Councillor Williams rather than just, but, sorry. Your question? Well, just be a bit brave and put your hand up and speak every once in a while. The leader of the council should really just take that constructive suggestion from Councillor Davies on board and look at that. Nobody's politicising anything, Mr Mayor. Leader. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I can see Councillor Hartley doesn't understand the actions of his own members. When Charlie Davies goes on Twitter and puts the letter up online saying that we are stopping residents from answering questions in that chamber, what does that look like? I think it looks like politicising. Now, Mr Mayor, the very question that Councillor Hartley answered, just last week, myself, Councillor Taggart-Ryan, the London Fire Brigade, the Building Safety Regular, later, all in a meeting with 66 residents from Royal Artillery Quay, facilitated by this council. I don't think you know what's going on. Thank you. Thank you. Dear colleagues, as we are reaching to nearly the end of the allocated time, we should move to items 17 and 16 due to the importance of these two agendas, which we cannot defer. If we cannot discuss on these agendas, it would not be possible to pay members. So, I believe you would be happy to accept that. Thank you. Let's go to item 17, members allowances scheme 2025-26. This is an officer's report and so false for me to move the recommendations in the report. Please note, there was a typo in the report and the rate of the London living waste should read £13.85 for recommendations 1.7 to 1.19. Members need to consider the absence in section 6 of the report before making decisions. Does any member wish to speak on this report? Leader. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I rise to move the recommendations in the report, which speaks to item 17, and we move the recommendations to increase basic allowance in line with the fixed percentage increase applied to allowances in the local government paid settlements, and equally move the recommendations from 1.9 to 1.7 to 1.9 of the report. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Hadley. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I understand that the leader of the council has just moved the recommendation for members allowances, which is option 2 for the basic allowance and option 2 for the special responsibility allowance, which is to increase in line with inflation. And as he knows, our group has taken a different decision, which is that we think we should stick to the agreement that we've reached in the previous two years, which is to operate the basic allowance, but not operate to freeze the special responsibility allowance. We think that is still the right balance, given the financial constraints on the council. Our two groups have a difference of view on that. If that's the recommendation he's putting forward, we'll vote against it, but we agree with half of it. So I think that's all I'll say, Mr. Mayor, just to reiterate our position really that we think freezing special responsibility allowances would be a better decision, but we understand that the Labour group feels otherwise. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Hadley. As the leader has moved the recommendation in the following points. I agree to increase the rate of children and dependent carers allowances to £13.18 to match the rate of London living waste. I'd like to thank the leader and add this specific recommendation seconded. Formerly, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Members can debate the item. Leader. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Firstly, just to note the points that the leader of the opposition had. We've had conversations about this. I'm quite clear with the recommendations that's in the report. If we want good people in politics serving their residents, we have to make sure it's accessible. The role of being a council is accessible and people are effectively remunerated. If we continue to freeze, then we're not providing that. SRAs and allowances will be out of line and what we'll find is people, especially in this current economic climate, won't be able to get into politics. When you have family, when you have kids, you won't be able to do it. You won't be able to serve your residents in cabinet when you're a family holding down children and you have to have a job and you have to do your role and fulfil it as a Councillor. Hence why we're going for that. Thank you very much. Thank you. I would now like to ask the council if it agrees recommendations 1.1 to 1.5 and 1.11 to 1.12 in the report, together with specific recommendations 1.7 to 1.10, is moved by the Leader and seconded by the Deputy Leader. The Members' Allowance Scheme for 2025-2026 will be agreed in line with these recommendations. We'll now go for voting. All those in favour can indicate. All those against. Any abstentions? The recommendations have been agreed. Item 16, Pay Policy Statement 2025-26. The last statement was approved by full council on 27 March 2024 and subsequent statements need to be prepared and approved annually before 31 March. Can I ask Councillor Janice Ireland, Cabinet Member for Finance, Resources and Social Value, to move the recommendations. Thank you Mr Mayor. Following the Hutton review of fair pay in the public sector, it's a requirement for councils to produce this statement each year. It covers arrangements for both lower and higher paid staff and central to it is that there should not be an excessive gap between those receiving the highest wages and the rest of the workforce. I'm pleased to report that this gap has reduced over the last year with the main workforce receiving a higher percentage increase in their wages versus those at the higher end. I'd like to also take this opportunity to remind you that this council is a London living wage employer and I encourage as many other employers in this borough to become one to help support our residents through the continuing cost of living crisis and to spread the prosperity in the borough. Thank you Mr Mayor. Thank you. Does any member wish to speak on this report? Thank you. Does Councillor Ireland wish to close the minutes? Formerly Mr Mayor, thank you. Thank you. I would now like to ask the council if it agrees the recommendation in the report. Please indicate all those in favour. All those against. Any abstentions? The recommendations have been agreed. As 10.30pm approaches near, this meeting has now been sitting for almost three hours. Under paragraph A1.95 of the constitution, I invite members to agree to extend the meeting by 30 minutes to 11.30, sorry, 11pm. All those in favour. Against. It is agreed to extend the meeting till 11pm. Thank you. Item 15. Addition to membership of Health and Wellbeing Board. This report requires council to agree the addition of the cabinet member for housing management, neighborhoods and homelessness to become a voting member of the Health and Wellbeing Board. And the Director of Housing and Safer Communities is non-voting member of the Health and Wellbeing Board. Can I ask the leader to move the recommendations? Thank you Mr Mayor, I move the recommendations formally. Does any member wish to speak on the report? Can I ask the leader to close the debate? Thank you Mr Mayor, I'd like to close the debate formally recognising that housing is part of wellbeing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Now we go for voting. Please indicate all those in favour. Those against. Any abstentions? The recommendations are agreed. Item 18 changes to the Executive Function Scheme of Delegation. This is an important information report. Does any member wish to speak on the report? Does Council note the report? Noted. Thank you. The report is noted. Now we go to Item 19, Motion on Darkly Cycles. Can I call on Councillor Adriene Smith to formally move the motion? Thank you Mr Mayor. I submitted this motion for debate tonight in the hope that firstly it helps to bring a dockless cycle hire company, LIME, back to the table to agree a memorandum of understanding, MOU, with the Council about their operations in the borough. And secondly, to support the cause for regulation of micromobility rental schemes in general. At some point in the second half of 2022, green bikes started to appear in the north-west of the borough. Fantastic, I thought. For years, we've been trying and failing to persuade TfL to expand their cycle hire scheme to Greenwich, but our requests were only met with refusals or eye-watering costs. I had long realised that dockless cycle hire was probably a better option for us anyway because of our hills. It would attract a whole new group of people to cycle and help us to achieve the 45% reduction in car use by 2030 as set out in our carbon neutral plan. For the first few months it was great and then from December 2022 the number of bikes increased and that's when the stream of complaints started. From cycles being parked across pavements and footpaths, being left in the middle of pedestrian crossings, to being discarded outside entrances to shops and private homes. I've had reports ranging from annoyance to serious inconvenience. One of my constituents even tripped over a cycle abandoned lying across the pavement and broke their hip. This couldn't go on but we were pleased that Councillor Le Cowell and the transport team had a plan. By July 2023 we were told that we were working on an MOU with Lime and by May 2024 we had what looked like a scheme that was ready to go. But I was severely disappointed to learn in August that Lime were no longer willing to sign the MOU. That meant no bays, no controls on where bikes are parked, no responsibility taken by Lime to protect Greenwich residents from the anti-social minority of their customer base. It's just not good enough. We need Lime to work with us and put in these designated parking bays now. We need Lime to substantially increase fines for anti-social use to a level that acts as a deterrent. If Timothée Chalamet can claim to be fined £65 for leaving his bike on the red carpet, which we don't believe, why not the rider who left theirs blocking the entrance to Greenwich Station? We need Lime to implement a user-friendly way for residents to report issues and for them to be reacted to quickly with a service level agreement such as the two-hour window to remove obstructively parked bikes. That's an agreement they've reached with other councils. If there's no MOU signed and no bays in place by the end of summer, we will reluctantly have to demand that Lime bikes are removed from this borough. This state of affairs cannot continue and it's time for Lime to stop dragging their feet, get on their bikes and sign this MOU. Thank you. Is the motion seconded? Thank you, Mr Mayor. I don't want to repeat too much of what Councillor Smith has far more eloquently said, so I just want to say a little bit about why we brought this motion to Council tonight. The importance of Lime bikes in our borough, what isn't currently working but how we can fix this? I want to be really clear from the outset, as you can probably tell from the fact that it's proposed by Councillor Smith, this is not an anti-cycling motion and it's also not an anti-Lime bike motion. Like Councillor Smith, I was pleased to see Lime bikes arrive in the borough. We're all acutely aware that we do have gaps in the public transport provision in this borough and for those of us who don't drive, we're reliant on public transport and active travel to get around. Higher cycles are particularly useful for plugging these short gaps. They allow residents access to cycling without having to bear the cost of owning or repairing a bike. In the housing crisis, many young people have nowhere to store a bike. Higher cycles open the door to active travel to these demographics as well. E-bikes in particular increase accessibility in some of the hillier parts of the borough, such as parts of my own ward in Charlton. Lime bikes are an important part of our transport infrastructure. We welcome them across Greenwich and within our communities. We just need the tools in place so that we as a Council and as residents of this borough can work with Lime to achieve these shared goals. Since 2022, I've consistently received casework from residents of Charlton Horn Fair with photos showing tens of bikes cluster blocking entire footways, spilling into roads, left blocking people's doorways and garden gates and left on their sides, reducing the accessibility of our pathways. The good news is this actually isn't too hard to fix. We know that it's a very small minority of Lime users who park their bikes anti-socially. Increasing the fines for these few can improve the experience of other Lime users and other users of our shared space. We need Lime to share information with us, data dashboards showing vehicle numbers, locations, compliance, to give assurance the service is being managed in the public interest. We need Lime to be willing to work with Greenwich the way they do with our neighbours, with a memorandum of understanding so we're all working together. We're here and we're willing. Lime, the bike, the ball is in your court, as is the bike, as we're aware. Thank you everyone. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Two members who wish to debate the motion. Councillor Smith. Councillor Jackie Smith. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'll be very brief. I just want to talk about the problem that this causes for wheelchair users. I have a relative who is a user of a very heavy motorised wheelchair who can't get out of the wheelchair. Literally, if something is blocking her path, she has to go back to the point where there's a drop curb, cross the road, go across the other side and join where she wanted to further down. If I am with her, I cannot lift a Lime bike. It needs somebody pretty sturdy to lift an abandoned Lime bike. I suppose the point I just want to make is if we believe equality is to be very serious and we believe that disabled people should be able to access our pavements and highways, then we need to support this motion. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr Oliver. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Smith and Councillor Bournon for bringing this motion. I think it's really important for us to have this discussion here. Just to add, to build on what Councillor Jackie Smith has said, the issue of people with disabilities and also people who are partially sighted or blind, it is a real concern and worry for them navigating the streets or pavements and blocking their ability to move around. Again, I have managed to lift a Lime bike, so I don't know if that means I'm sturdy, but they are heavy. I also have had several complaints from individuals, from societies, the Greenwich Society, the West Coast Society, the Black Keys Society, multiple people are raising this. We were really heartened to see bays being considered. As has said, this is not an anti-cycling or anti-Lime bike motion, but the bays are needed and they are needed in the area. We have our park as well, struggling to manage the multiple bikes being left at both entrances and having to lift them out of the park before they shut. It's causing huge inconvenience for people and actually, we want residents to be able to continue using them, so Lime really do need to work with us to make this work in Greenwich. Thank you. Councillor Kirsten, same method, yeah. Thank you, Mayor. I support the motion. We do get lots and lots of residents complaining to us. The question is to bike or not to bike. The question is for the company to take responsibility for the way they operate. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Charlie Davies. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I thought I would just note the irony of the proposer wanting to regulate cycling and cyclists. Just to highlight the obvious potential unintended consequences of this motion and the impact it may have on active travel within the borough, which I know would definitely not be the intention of the proposer. But many, if not all of us, will have received casework about Lime bikes strewn across the public realm in our wards. To Jackie's point about being young and fit enough to pick up a Lime bike, the other week I had one child strapped to me, a buggy with another child running alongside me. I didn't have the option to pick up the Lime bike, so I had to walk in the road with both children to avoid it. I completely understand that point. There has also been, that I thought I would highlight, an interesting investigation by London Centric about Lime and safety concerns relating to the design of their bike, which isn't addressed within this motion. We do believe that needs to be addressed, but it is not something the Council can control. Therefore, we are broadly supportive of the motion being proposed by Councillor Smith and we will be voting for it this evening. Thank you. Councillor Matt Hartley. Are you speaking? No, what he said. Taggart Ryan. Councillor Taggart Ryan. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I will be brief. This isn't just a problem we've had in Greenwich. I think I contacted Avril recently when I went to New Zealand and the first thing I did when I got out of the airport in Auckland was fall over an inappropriately parked Lime bike. So building on that point, this is not anathema to Lime. There's been agreements in Brent where they have adhered to the idea of having parking bays. And I don't see why the people of Greenwich should be less served by Lime than the people of Brent. Thank you. Councillor O'Brien. O'Brien. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I would like to thank Councillors Smith and Burke-McDonald for their motion which comes at an important time. We are not only in the midst of a climate crisis but also a crisis of inactivity in this country with one in six deaths linked to physical inactivity which is a human as well as financial cost of over $7 billion a year. And to that end, dockless electric assist bikes do have a vital role to play. A gateway into physical activity as well as helping to tackle issues of traffic and pollution and plugging gaps in our transport network. Now, I have used dockless bikes but I much prefer my own bike and lake power but it wasn't always that way. I can remember how daunting my first ride into work was, my first ride into town, not just because of concerns about interacting with cars but also concerns about my own fitness. Now, we have seen improvements in protected infrastructure for all forms of active travel both across London and in the borough. And as members will know, I don't tend to miss an opportunity to encourage the Council to do more on that front. This is also somewhere where dockless and electric assist bikes can and must play an important role helping people to do that first commute by bike, leaving the car at home for the shopping and in so doing, freeing up road capacity for essential journeys and delivering the physical and mental benefits of cycling. And we must not forget, you are 150 times more likely to be killed when stepping out of your house by a motor vehicle than by any kind of bike, with just 12 fatalities caused by cycling past years compared to 1600 by motor vehicles in 2022 alone. However, as members have articulated and will be aware, dockless providers with both lime and forest bike operating in the borough have quite rightly a rather mixed reputation. By encouraging more people to start riding, there are of course issues with inexperienced riders and most notably we see the issues of irresponsibly deposited bikes. Some of this comes from strategically planned deployments, which to be fair to line, when I flagged issues with such deployments like one on the Meridian Estate in my ward, they have been quite responsive and amended their approach. But some of this also comes from users of the bikes as it is, after all, people, often our neighbours, who choose where to leave a bike. I report and move when I can obstructively parked bikes and would urge everyone to do the same. The key to shifting them is to push them on the front wheel and just nudge it along like that. You don't have to carry all of the weight. But I appreciate even that is a very challenging thing for many people and it underscores the importance of this motion. Now, I found Lime to be reasonably responsive on policing irresponsibly parked bikes, issuing escalating penalties on those who park in an antisocial manner that can end in a ban. And they have been fairly responsive when I flagged dumped bikes, generally seeing them removed, be it from ponds or from the river, within 24 hours, albeit with some exceptions. However, Forest I have had less success with. However, we clearly need to do more. And that is not just about reminding our friends, family and neighbours to deposit bikes responsibly when we see it. It also means appropriate rules and the necessary agreements with the providers. So Lime must return and Forest must come to the table to complete, at speed, discussions on an MOU. My ward, Creekside, borders Lewisham and I almost feel I am a bit of a free rider there because from that I see the direct benefits of dockless bays as Lewisham have designated dockless bays. They minimise pavement obstructions, assist users in accessing bikes, in finding bikes to use and in so doing tackle many of the causes of hostility and unsafe practices arising from the bikes. So surely this should be a win-win. And what is more, I would hope we can eventually go further than any other boroughs, and I may be a minority of you here, but I would favour us having exclusive bike parking on every street in the borough along with Sheffield stands, for those of us who have our own bikes, with the firms being charged the equivalent of a parking spot in order to fund this. But we must be careful not to lazily dismiss the potential benefits of dockless bikes, just as we do not dismiss all motor vehicles as a menace because there are a minority of idiots who drive irresponsibly or park across pavements. And so we must apply the same standard to higher bikes. And so I hope in line with this motion that we can work with the providers to seek better enforcement of existing rules, increased fines, better information sharing, easier reporting procedures and crucially the introduction of designated bays across the borough while continuing to work with them and others to encourage active travel across the borough and our city. Thank you very much. Thank you. Councillor David Gander. Thank you very much, Mr Mayor, and to congratulate the movers again on this excellent motion. I would say we need a bit of a Paris spring when it comes to cycling now the weather is improving. We all need to get our bikes out if we can. I was very encouraged to hear from Councillor Sullivan when we were walking on the Thames path that he recently took out a line bike in central London. So I think the next thing is selling his car. So I mean it's really good to see this modal shift. But talking of Paris, Mr Mayor, when I was there for a short while in the summer I used a line bike and loads of people do. In Paris, not only are the line bikes strictly regulated with an MOU with the excellent socialist mayor, Anne Hidalgo, cycling in Paris has doubled, more than doubled during Anne Hidalgo's last four years and it's now 11% of commuters cycle which is higher than the number that drive. And we need that sort of revolution, Mr Mayor, in Greenwich as well. But of course, walking, cycling is not for everyone, even I admit that. Walking is also really important but mobility aids for those with disabilities and so forth. So our pavements are really important and we have a two metre London pavement standard which we seek to ensure we pursue everywhere. And these bikes get very much in the way as has been said. You do see, as with Councillor Sullivan, many people using line bikes effectively and very well. I saw them in Greenwich Park the other day. But at the same time in our ward, like other wards we've heard from, we do get a significant number of complaints. Right around from the peninsula up to Charlton Station of line bikes being left over cycle lanes, over pavements and sometimes on the road. I myself have quite a few occasions effectively stopped people when you hear that clicking noise, when they've clearly been used without authority. There must be a way that some people know how to use it without paying. But I've stopped people using them and got them off and been aided by other members of the public. But Lime do need to improve their technology so that can't happen because those are the sorts of people that then tend to leave them anywhere in the pavement. Because you're meant to send a photograph of where you've put it. But yes, let's follow Lewisham and Brent, let's look at Paris, let's have these proper stations. The transport team did a great job, they consulted all the Councillors, they identified the places. We had a couple in our ward as well, a few in our ward and then Lime refused to sign it. Let's now make sure they do and if they don't let's get another doctorate bike operator in who will sign a memorandum so we can really thrive in terms of cycling but at the same time ensure that our pavements, pedestrians and people with disabilities and so forth are safe. Thank you Councillor Gardner. Thank you Mr Mayor. I obviously agree with pretty much what everybody has said. I cannot tell you how pleased I am that this motion has finally come here. We need it desperately. I'm pleased for three reasons. I'm pleased for my residents. I have had so many complaints in Charlton Village and Riverside about bikes carelessly left all over the place. I'm also pleased for them that I'm going to be able to say that the promises I made last year that we were looking into it might get filled. I'm pleased for me. I have hurt my back very badly trying to move bikes that have got in the way because of the kind of reasons that Councillor Smith mentioned about disabilities etc. And I'm thirdly having stopped moving them myself because of hurting my back, being quite small and not as young and fit as I used to be. I'm very pleased for the young men that I am now not going to have to stop and ask to help me to move those bikes. They will also be very pleased that they're not being asked to stop what they're doing and move bikes. It will be great if we can get this sorted. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Nick Williams. Thank you Mr. Mayor and Councillor Hartley's invitation. We'll be brave and speak now, so thank you. So firstly, thank you to Councillor Smith and Bert Madone for bringing this motion which, as Councillor Van Broek alluded to, has been a long time in the coming. I, along with you, support the idea of active travel and I think Lime Forest have a huge part to play in that. But it's got to be done right. And as Councillor Gardner alluded to, there's a perfect spot in our ward by Charlton Station on Charlton Road where they could easily park up. People could switch from the train to the bike to get to their final destination, even up Charlton Church Lane which is a nice big hill and Lime would help perfectly with that. I would also note to those that talked about moving Lime bikes, they have a very loud alarm on them when you pick them up and start moving them. Don't do it at night time, I upset my neighbours once with that, so that's some bitter experience there. And to relate to Councillor Davies' point, I, as a former buggy user now, he's grown up a bit, thankfully, so it's actually harder without the buggy, I regret losing it. But there we go. Contending Lime bikes is a real difficulty, so I will fully support the motion based on those challenges and many others. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Anwar Gajan. Briefly, thank you Mayor. I just wanted to stand up so that I can get the blood so clearly. No, no, no. On a serious note, Lime bikes, I have so much case work, the deputy leader I'm sure will vouch for the amount, I love taking pictures and sending them in, trying to make an art form out of it. Lime bikes are blighting our backyards right across the borough, the whole borough, it's not just in certain areas. Even going around and seeing them inside the river or the lakes, I don't really call it down in Thamesnead, and you think, how? Why? But the problem, my concern though is, of course I'm going to be supporting this because I've been moaning about it for long enough, but there is a cost and it's us, the council, the taxpayers, that are paying for that. And so I really do think that Lime bike cannot be left to think that they can just ignore Greenwich, maybe because they've had to spend, it's their business, that's their business model. They need to take that on board and somehow get their users to consider where they're leaving them. I mean, I just don't understand it, but there is a relationship with the users as well, so I do accept that, but it shouldn't land on Greenwich to be going around trying to collect them. If it is, then I suggest we ransom them back to them. If we can't do that, I suggest we melt them down and use it to fix the lifts at the foot tunnel or something. Thank you. Oh, thank you. You're finished. Now we are finally coming to the end of the speech, so the Deputy Leader, Councillor Liqueiro. Hi. I'm not going to repeat what's been said before, because we do all accept that there are some benefits in terms of active travel. But I just want to add that we do have in the forward plan, it's already in there, an agreement for a memorandum of understanding. And I thank the councillors for bringing this motion, because it's kind of helped push the discussions along, because I would agree with you. It's taken a while. And in terms of the designated bays, we have got those already decided on. And Lime, with a lot of persuasion, have agreed an enhanced fining regime in town centres in particular and transport hubs. So we're moving, but whilst they've agreed all of this in the memorandum of understanding, I will say that it doesn't have any teeth. So we welcome the fact that the government has announced legislation through the devolution bill that will include stockless cycle regulation, and give local authorities the enforcement powers they need to tackle any irresponsible behaviour and rogue operators. So I do welcome and support the motion. Thank you. Thank you. Now, can I call on Councillor Adony Smith to close the debate? Thank you, Mr Mayor, and I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions and support for the motion. And I'm glad we were able to squeeze the Lime motion in. I'd like to close the debate. Thank you. Thank you. I'll now ask the council to vote on the motion. Please indicate all those in favour. This looks under portion, doesn't it? All against? Any abstentions? The motion is agreed. Item 20, economic impact assessment of sell-off council car parts. Can I call on Councillor Matt Hartley to formally move the motion? Point of order, Chair. Just to put to the Mayor, it feels like this motion needs more debate. I don't know if we're going to have to toot that in four or three minutes, but it's up to Councillor Hartley for what's stuck. I'm very grateful for the leader's willingness to debate our motion, and we'll look forward to debating our motion. But yes, I think we've got half an hour, but we may not need even that long. Can I just give Councillor Tester's apologies for leaving early, Mr Mayor? Baby Ray Ban has a night feed, so woe betide Councillor Tester for being late. He's been given special dispensation by our whip to leave the meeting early. It shouldn't be taken as anything other than fulsome support for our motion, but he's got more important things on his agenda. So in proposing this motion, Mr Mayor, I'd just say we've brought this motion following the decision that the cabinet took in October, a decision in principle to sell off three council-owned car parks. One on Old Dover Road at Black East Standard, one in Charlton Village next to the Assembly Rooms, and the Avery Street car park in Plumstead. That decision has been heavily criticised, not just by us as Opposition Councillors, but by residents and local businesses. And they've raised very real concerns in all three cases over the impact that disposing of these parking spaces will have, the impact that will have on those important shopping parades. So the leader heard from me at the December meeting the concerns raised by Gino Gashi, who runs the excellent Cafe Moca on Old Dover Road, about the hit that he is expecting to his trade if that nearby car park is sold. And he also heard the concerns raised by one of Gino's customers, Keith, who told me in the video that we put online that his 94-year-old mum and her quality of life is utterly dependent on being able to park in that car park in the disabled bay so she can access the shopping parade. That's the situation on Old Dover Road and those concerns are shared by many of the businesses on that parade. At Charlton, the Charlton Society has argued strongly for the car park to stay as it helps people access events at the Assembly Rooms and of course supports the economy of the village. And that includes supporting young people with learning disabilities to access activities where there is obviously a need in many cases for the car park to facilitate that access. There's real concerns on that. It's also been pointed out to me there are five takeaways in Charlton Village and without that car park it's obvious that the parade is going to see more and more people breaking the double yellow lines and that's going to slow down the four bus routes that run through Charlton inhibiting public transport. So it's not clear to me also that the nature of the shops and businesses in Charlton has been at all considered more widely in this decision. There's a blind shop, a dog grooming salon, which looks after our co-spaniel Frankie and I don't know if I have to declare that interest. These are businesses that rely on, in the case of many of their customers, having the ability to access those businesses using a vehicle. If they lose business, everyone loses, including ultimately the council. So there's big concerns in Charlton. At Avery Street in Plumstead, the presence of that car park has actually previously been used by the council as an argument to reassure businesses who were at the time concerned about the controlled parking zone. It was held up as a mitigation that that car park was there and it's also received fairly recent investment as part of the $1.7 million from the Mayor's Good Growth Fund. The rationale then was that that car park was needed to support local shops and local businesses. So my question would be what has changed? That's what businesses can't understand. And it's clear to me that in all three of these cases, Old Dover Road, Charlton Village and Avery Street, the impact, the economic impact and the social impact of the loss of these car parks has not sufficiently been taken into account. And there's still time to change this. So at that cabinet meeting, the decision was that the cabinet was agreeing to the overall principle and that thereafter, each sold item would be dealt with individually. And it was delegated to the Director of Regen, Enterprise and Skills, and I'm quoting, in consultation with the leader and the cabinet member to finalise the disposal process in accordance with prevailing market conditions. So all of that means, Mr Mayor, there is still an opportunity, despite that decision, for the cabinet, the administration, to stop and think before proceeding with these individual sales because the leader and the cabinet member is going to be consulted as part of that delegated process. So all our motion tonight actually calls for is the conducting of an economic impact assessment for each of these sites. So we're not bringing in a motion saying that this shouldn't go ahead, we could have gone further, we haven't. This is just about conducting an economic impact assessment for each site to ensure the likely impact of the loss of these car parks is properly considered. I think that's much more in line with the corporate plan and what it says about town centres, high streets and shopping parades being vibrant, prosperous, well-maintained places that meet the needs of local people. That document rightly says that shops are the lifeblood of our local economy and it sets an objective that they help drive local economic growth. And that document also mentions some of the challenges they face, including specifically reduced footfall. So my pitch would be that before this council does anything that could reduce that footfall further, we should at least ensure the council knows precisely what impact there will be on those shops, cafes and other businesses. So this motion requires a consultation with them, not the usual sort of pro forma consultation, leaflet drop, but actual proactive engagement, personally visiting from the leader and the cabinet member, personally visiting each business to discuss their views of the proposal. And I think if they did that, they will hear what I've been hearing about the deep concerns that exist in our business community about this. I think that's frankly the very least that those businesses deserve. So I hope the leader and the cabinet member will take me up on that suggestion before they offer up that advice because they're going to have to give that advice as part of the process. And a final point from me, obviously the council has a stated policy of making high streets and shopping parades more accessible and making it easier for people to travel to and from them. And we would all agree with that. I think in practice the council is seeing this only through the lens of public transport. But whether the administration frankly likes it or not, some people need to drive. For many of our residents, including disabled people and older residents, having adequate parking is essential for their quality of life and accessing local shopping parades. So this has a business impact and it has a big human impact too. So we're urging them tonight to keep in mind the need to support our local shops, to listen to those concerns. And frankly I don't think we're asking for very much. An economic impact assessment and a proper consultation and engagement with those businesses. I know there's an amendment that gets all political about it, which is a complete waste of everybody's time. I hope they'll withdraw the amendment and support our motion. Is the motion seconded? Yes, former seconder. I will speak now, but I'll keep it very brief. Again, I'm going to repeat what Councillor Hartley, how he started his speech. Because it's very important and I'm taking a different aspect of how this can affect people closing the car parks. One of the few things that brings her quality of life. These, are we heard before, are the words of a son who takes his 94-year-old mum to the cafe and shops in Old Dover Road. There is very little on street parking in this very busy road. And it is often unsafe for the disabled, elderly, young families, wheelchair users and people with other health issues to park on the street. For many older and vulnerable people, a weekly visit to the shops or cafe represents an opportunity for social interaction and a chance to get out of the house and to maintain a sense of independence and to connect with others in the community, especially if they live alone. I know the Old Dover Road area and have visited the friendly cafe. And I also know personally that having a cup of tea with people around you in a different environment can lift your spirits. Why take away safe car parking facilities if it means the difference between an isolated person enjoying an hour of vital social interaction and normality outside their four walls? It doesn't make sense. And as we have heard before, it is actually not showing equality. So, I am not going to say anything else, but this is why I am seconding our motion. Thank you. Thank you. I understand Councillor Okereke wishes to propose an amendment. Leader. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and I would like to propose a very fair amendment, in my view. First of all, Mr Mayor, the Cabinet made this decision on our rolling asset review last October, which led us to make the decision to re-let 23 council assets and dispose of 11 assets, which include three car parks. Now, we know as a council we have a growing need and demand for us to safeguard children, a need to protect vulnerable adults, to keep our streets clean, to take bins out, to tackle flights up in our neighbourhoods, to keep our libraries open, maintain our parks, and run the best children's centres in London. Mr Mayor, the job of doing this gets harder every year, especially when we have lost 150 million in funding after 14 years of the Tory government. Mr Mayor, the opposition can touch the Conservatives' bank properties in this country, and they mismanaged our finances, which has meant councils like Greenwich are having to dispose of some assets to plug the financial black hole they left us in. Now, as we've seen today, asset disposals are not easy decisions to make, and I want to recognise the strength of feeling around some of these assets in our communities. We will always engage with businesses and are more than willing, with the cabinet member, to go down there and speak to businesses. I know that ward councillors have been engaging with businesses and speaking with them. Seeing them repurposed will be hard for some, and I get it. But Mr Mayor, we cannot prejudge what it might be or what might come forward on the site. It might still be a car park. But the reason why we repurpose them is really important. They will provide an essential funding boost to protect our budget from cuts to our council funding. It will protect our ability to keep frontline services, like our libraries, like our welfare benefits team, like our street cleansing team, funded and fully operational. Without disposing of assets, we have to be real. We aren't going to be able to deliver on some of our missions for residents. Just like I mentioned earlier about the Royal Hill development, there was a call to action to maintain it as a community garden. In the same way, we've seen a call to action to not build flats on certain properties. But we did the right thing and turned it into housing for adults with special education needs. And my God, Mr Mayor, go and speak to those residents and listen to their families and see how it's changed their lives. That was a hard decision for this council. The choices we make around assets aren't always easy, but this is a council that will always deliver for those that need it the most. And repurposing has to be part of that conversation. Now, onto the matter of supporting businesses. Mr Mayor, look, I'm not going to take lessons from the Conservatives when it comes to the economy and when it comes to business. And I think their approach is slightly flawed. We've had discussions at security and I've talked to the leader of the opposition and we've had conversations about car parks and about car parking. And I've talked to him about the factors that are needed for businesses to thrive. And he knows he can't take such a narrow-minded approach when it comes to the local economy. It's bigger than that. We've had 14 years of stagnant growth, especially to our wages, thanks to the Conservative Party. Inflation was up. The Brexit they supported never delivered on the opportunities for business. And the economy tanked under them, with working people paying the price. Mr Mayor, the economy relies on people going out and spending money. And I'm glad to see Labour is making work pay, which in turn supports business. The issue here isn't the need for an economic impact assessment on a car park. What we need is a plan for business. We need to fix the foundations of our economy. We need a bold plan for business and that is why we established our inclusive economy strategy for this borough, thinking about how we support businesses and people to thrive. So I'll ask everyone in this chamber to support this amendment and remind them, while the leader of the opposition tucks when I talk about 14 years of a Conservative government that bankrupted this country, let me remind all of you, I will never stop saying that, because we were promised something different. Remember, we were promised a long-term economic plan. Businesses, our residents, my future children and the future for your kids were promised a long-term economic plan. And none of us should forget that we didn't get it. That's the Conservatives' legacy. A stolen future for the next generation. Vote this motion down. Thank you. Thank you. Is the amendment seconded? Formerly, Mr Mayor. Before we debate the amendment, can I ask Councillor Hartley if he accepts the amendment? No, Mr Mayor. Do members wish to debate on the amendment? Councillor Fletcher. Yeah, thank you, Mr Mayor. Just to say, if there's any residents watching this late hour, just to say that Old Dover Road is a fantastic place to shop. There are great businesses, great local cafes, and just to reassure people, there's one disabled bay in the car park. There's at least two in the street and there's disabled bays in Marks and Spencers. So, it sounded like it was a bit of a hellhole, from what I'm hearing, but Old Dover Road is a great place to visit. It's a great place to do your shopping. I'm there every day in Marks and Spencers doing my mum's shopping and those across the road in Marks and Spencers. So, please everyone, if you're passing, please come along and support Old Dover Road. Thank you very much. Thank you. Councillor Charlie Davies. I will echo Councillor Fletcher that Old Dover Road is a great place to shop. I was actually in M&S in Old Dover Road earlier. We're all going to compete about who went there, aren't we? But to the point made in the amendment and by the leader, in 1.8 of the amendment we've seen about the improved financial settlement, but we've heard today Labour's emergency budget and with the forthcoming spending review, I think it's debatable that the settlement received from this Labour government will be anything like the one received by the last Zunach Conservative government. And the amendment and the leader again repeat the tired Labour line of the 22 billion black hole. But as the Shadow Chancellor said today, the only 22 billion black hole is the one created by the Labour Party and their Chancellor. But ultimately, the reason we reject this amendment is because it's just completely removed from the actual argument and narrative that the Council put forward when they made this decision. If you look at the report that went to Cabinet in October, we weren't talking about the fact that the Council had had to undergo 14 years of Conservative government. We had that there was significant capital tied up in assets that no longer serve the objectives of the Council. A proportion of the Council's portfolio is functionally obsolete. There was nothing of this absolutely tired narrative the Council and the leader is trying to weave of the last 14 years of Conservative government. The issue is that this Council weren't serious about managing their finances during that time and didn't take difficult decisions earlier on. And so, for the reasons I've listed, we will not be accepting this amendment. Councillor Lullaby? Thank you, Mr Mayor. I just wanted to build on my fellow Councillor Fletcher's words in regards to Dover Road and just build on a few more points as well. As he said, it is a really great place to shop. It's a really vibrant shopping space. And it is, as Councillor Fletcher pointed out, there is actually a private car park that is functioning that is behind the Blackley Standard pub. There is also on-street parking that is available. And there is also the M&S car park as well, which as I think many of us seem to frequent, I was there the other day too. So, I do think, I do understand your concerns and I understand the concerns of business because business, to the leader's point, business has had a pretty awful time. And they have been treated appallingly. And so, there is huge pressure on business at the moment. So, I can understand, to some extent, I'm concerned that there is a bit of a whipping up of fear around this. Because for me, you're talking about something that has not even yet occurred. And going out, making videos about it and worrying people, worrying them about the effect on their business, worrying people about access. I do not take the points of access to the point that Councillor Fletcher made. There is good access to that area. And we also do not know what the future of this car park could be. It could be that somebody else may choose to run a car park. Who knows? It could be, we don't know. So, I feel like the other thing is, we talk about the importance of supporting business. Oh, no, one other point. The evidence out there about linking the success of business and parking is really complex and not clear. Actually, there are reports that show a positive correlation and there are reports that show negative correlations as well. So, again, I think you need to be careful by making those assumptions and kind of drawing people to that conclusion and worrying them. The other point I think to make is we talk about supporting business. One of the reasons that Old Dover Road is such a successful area is because it is HRA properties with council rents. So, we have their council rented properties and those are basically not hugely expensive. If you go to some other areas, you will see independent shops are being driven out of those areas due to those really extortionally high rents that are going up year in, year out. And as you will see in many areas, you have very empty shops. We do not. We have a really high rate of occupation and actually I think we have well-priced rents in that area. And that is why you see so many independents flourishing in that area. So, what I would say is, you know, 100% I and others will very much engage with residents, businesses specifically on this if there are those concerns. But let us not kind of, I think, I fear there is some whipping up. No, that is my opinion and you do not need to interrupt me while I am talking. That is my opinion that I am sharing. And I actually do believe that particularly like that whole area, that investment that we have made to ensure that we have kind of well-priced rents and supporting businesses in that place, we will engage with them and speak to them, but there is not a direct correlation and there is ample parking and I do not believe that the access issue is a fair point either. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Hadley. Thank you, Mr Mayor. So, I am just coming back on Council, a lot of our points and to our colleague and then coming to the leader. It is really unfair to accuse me or others of whipping up fear. Businesses approach me about this. Businesses approach me about this. I was filming one video and somebody walked past and asked to be in the video and they were feeling so passionate about it. So, I am sorry. I am not going to accept that accusation. And what I would say, Mr Mayor, and to the Cabinet, you are so thin-skinned, you are so sensitive to even the mildest challenge on a policy level, on an issue of really important substance, not just on Old Over Road but in Charlton and in Plumslip. You need to really work on the fact that you are going to be challenged by residents, by businesses and by opposition councillors because that is part of the job that you all wanted. So, it is incredibly unfair and I am not going to accept that accusation. Businesses approach us about this. On businesses, Councillor Lullivar said businesses have been treated appallingly. I think they have been treated appallingly, not least by the national insurance rise that is hitting them hard. And now, by this Council's complete refusal to even entertain the idea of actually asking the question, what will the impact of these sales be? On access, both War Councillors pointed out the M&S car park and if we are competing, I am in that M&S every day. What a middle-class bunch we seem to be. But that M&S car park is now much busier, as you will both know, following the refurb. That car park is much busier, much less space. There are disabled bays, obviously, of course you are right, but they are often full. Taking away the disabled bays that are in the car park, the concerns that have been raised with us is that is going to have a real impact. I think you know that will have an impact and I think that is really concerning. We disagree. I do think there is an access issue and I want to see that explored before this decision is taken. Councillor Lullivar said the economic case is complex and not clear. She talked about negative correlations, positive correlations. This isn't some abstract academic exercise. I am asking you to go and speak to the businesses, do an economic impact assessment and get their take. To move to the Leader of the Council, the Leader of the Council lectured me about factors that businesses need to thrive. I will give him one factor that businesses need to thrive, customers. That is the complaint and the concern that businesses are raising. They are going to lose customers because of this change. I am glad, I will give him credit where he is due. He has said he will at least go and speak to these businesses, which is one of the things we call for. So good, thank you. But he won't conduct an economic impact assessment. The Council is saying that it wants to press ahead without even asking the question, what will the impact on these businesses be and they should start by asking that question. So when he does go, and not just to Old River Road, we have been talking about that for Charlton and Plumstead as well. When he goes and speaks to all of those businesses, ask them and listen to them. Community engagement, dare I say. Ask them and understand what their view is on the likely impact on their businesses. I think that is a very reasonable thing. Councillor Hadley, I have five minutes left. What a five minutes it will be, Mr Mayor. I will bring it to a close. I will end with just this. I was expecting to hear an argument that we haven't heard tonight, which is about usage data. Because the decision was predicated on usage data. In fact, I understand that a previous version of your amendment, I have been told, talked about usage data and it hasn't appeared. And maybe that is because the usage data, which I have got access to, that the decision was based on, actually shows that these car parks are really well used. Abery Street on the Friday that was tested in the afternoon, 21 spaces out of a capacity of 22. Charlton Village car park half full that afternoon and Old River Road a third full. So the case that this was predicated on, that these car parks aren't being used, isn't supported by the evidence. So I think the Councillor has got this badly wrong and really disappointed by the party political nonsense, but what a waste of time. When you do speak to those businesses, ask them what they think will happen, what the impacts on their business and their customers will be. And then I really hope when you have done that, you will see that at the very least we need to understand that impact before the Council goes ahead with these sales. Point of order, Mr Mayor. The Leader of the Opposition has asserted things in the motion previously. Can you place on the record what previous motion he has seen from this group or who has he been briefed by? Thank you, Mr Mayor. I am not going to conduct the Leader's own leak investigation for him. There was talk about figures being used in this debate in your amendment and they haven't appeared. Please. Thank you, Mr Mayor. And I will come back. First of all, Councillor Davies raised a point about assets. Well, Mr Mayor, the way assets are dealt with, that they need to be maintained. So the point about when it comes to asset-deposed disposals and other things, really worth an important note, Councillor Davies, is that assets need to be managed, assets need revenue to manage them, assets need capital to manage them. There are a growing list of demands and increased population that this Council has when it comes to this Council. On the points about customers and other things, I think a lot of us speak quite frankly about the need and the customers and the existing car parks that are already there in the existing area. But Mr Mayor, I think I've clearly highlighted the point that we will go and speak to businesses and engage with them. We can't look at the success of businesses through the lens of just 21 car parking spaces or 22 car parking spaces. We have to create an environment that is bigger for businesses, that isn't just predicated on car parking. We're seeing less people taking driving tests at this moment of time. The world is changing. We have to really think about how we change. We just talked about line bikes. People are using line bikes. So look, while they're stuck on the back and don't recognise the decisions that they voted on when it comes to the climate emergency, carbon neutral plan, all these other things, this Council is thinking about how we change the ways and how we adapt. So Mr Mayor, again, I'd like to close the amendment and ask everyone to vote for it. Thank you. Thank you. To us, Councillor Hadley, as the mover of the motion, we wish to close the debate on the amendment. Formerly, Mr Mayor, businesses are going to be really disappointed by what they've heard tonight. I'll now ask the Council to vote on the amendment. Please indicate those in favour. Those against. Abstentions. The amendment has been agreed. Does any member wish to speak on the amended motion? Can I call on Councillor Okereke to close the debate? Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'll formally close the debate. I'll now ask the Council to vote on the motion. All those in favour? No. Is the amended motion. The original. Sorry, the amended motion. This is the amended motion. Sorry, let me clarify. We have the amendment in the motion. So, we're going to vote on the amended motion. Not the original one, the amended motion. Now, I'll ask the Council to vote on the amended motion. All those in favour in the amended motion. All those against? So, the amended motion is agreed. That concludes the meeting tonight. We'll meet again for our annual general meeting on the 14th May. Please enjoy the journey back home.