Transcript

Transcript

to this Cabinet Meeting and thank you for attending. A couple of reminders or announcements. Agenda items 13 is a draft statement of community involvement and item 15 on the 20 mile an hour zone policy have been deferred to the next Cabinet meeting in May. That Cabinet meeting has been moved from the 13th to the 19th of May. Reminder meetings may be recorded. And broadcast by the Council or people present. For speakers to please turn on their mic by pressing the middle speaker icon and speaking into the mic so that the audio can be picked up clearly. And we are currently in a pre-election period in advance of the Whetstone by-election on the 15th of May, 2025. During this time, ordinary Council business can continue, but members are reminded not to refer to not to refer to candidates in relation to the upcoming election. Thank you for your support, ensuring that these principles are respected at all times. Are the minutes of the previous meeting held on the 3rd of March, 2025 agreed as a correct record? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh, there are no absence of members. Uh, any, do members have any declarations? We move on to the question, question, if they have any questions, that is. Are there any questions? Oh, you surprised me. As you well know, there's a limit of 15 minutes, and we'll start when you ask the first question, okay? Thank you both. Okay, thank you very much, Alida. Our first question was on the Barnett arts and culture strategy within the participation updates that you've written. I was just wondering, when is the relaunch or the launch of the Barnett arts and cultural strategy? I'll be honest, every time I set a date of by-election, it will be after the 15th of May. I can find out an exact date when we do it. Do we know when the launch is? Sorry. It was just the one that got cancelled last year. That's all. I was interested. That's in the order. Okay. On another question, could somebody tell me how much money will Graham Park have to spend on their new panel that's been created? That's actually been in papers before. It's £28,500 for the project for the year, and then we'll review it after one year. Thank you. And how is the panel picked? So all of that recruitment has happened. It was, I'm sure that officers could talk about it as well, and we can pick that up later. It was an open recruitment process. There were interviews, etc. It's had two meetings. I was fortunate to pop to the beginning of the second meeting last week. But it's been a, an open and inclusive process. And finally, how, what gives them the, why do you give them the great role in deciding how buildings are going to be used? That's what it, that's what it says they're there for within the documents, that they will have a decisive place to say how buildings are used. No, that the actual stipulation of the panel is to look at activities and to discuss that and funding them locally. Okay, well, I'll maybe come back to you and I'll find it in a minute. Okay, please do. Okay, thanks. Going to the by-election, we've had to defer the subject that I have been going to talk about. So I thought we'd take the other theme of this set of cabinet papers, which is intertwined, in my mind, being the role of the ward counsellor and consultation. And I wondered whether this cabinet had a view of the role of the ward counsellor. Because the thing which is striking is that the ward counsellor has been written out of almost all parts of all policies. And I wondered whether this was intentional or unintentional. Just do a search in the document on the word ward. And what you'll find is that in the report you're going to consider, where my colleague was the chair, most of the report was about trying to reinsert the role of the ward counsellor into the process, because somehow between officers and cabinet members, it had been edited out. But it is increasingly our view that this cabinet is completely marginalising the role of the ward counsellor in everything they do. When you, we will come back to this when we look at the 20 mile an hour strategy. But just have a look at all the strategies and all the documents that you've put forward today and ask yourself, where does the ward counsellor come into this and how does it actually work? And the answer is, it is almost completely absent. Well, I was delighted to be on a ward walk with one of your ward counsellors on Friday. I work quite closely with all of your colleagues and all of my colleagues on safety across the borough, and I think they're an integral part of those walks. So these policies that are here in terms of participation and consultation are about how we work with residents. I think you raise an interesting point, but definitely ward counsellors who are effective are embedded in everything we do, in the partnership boards, in the ward walks, et cetera. Thanks. I think there is a separate debate about the efficacy of ward walks and the follow up and the extent to which things actually change as a consequence. But I'd like to just move to the other end of the spectrum. And perhaps I could refer you to page 87, which is page 11 of the consultation paper. And it's the second bullet, or the first and second bullet on that page. I mean, just to make the point, the first bullet, chief officers, managers will seek the views of residents and other stakeholders. Are you telling me that ward counsellors are now relegated to being other stakeholders, even though they're the elected representatives of the wards that we have in this borough? That's fine. That's not a problem. I'm not sure whether you're trying to say, well, ward counsellors probably should, there are times when I think they're not voted with early enough, but it is saying that when commencing a new service or seeking a train that is likely to have an impact, ward counsellors would be involved, but not only ward counsellors. I appreciate that. But the thing that is, as I said, striking about all these documents is the absence of the role of the ward counsellor, counsellor, which is a matter that I have raised with officers at a senior level, because I believe that it is thematic, it is probably accidental, but, and it may be a consequence of the cabinet system. But I do not believe that under the current constitution, the role of the ward counsellor has properly been thought through in all of the major policies of the council. But moving on, moving on, the second bullet is the one that I was actually focusing on, which is, which is in its own way extraordinary. Give genuine and conscientious consideration. Now, the words genuine and conscientious caused me, again, enormous alarm. I mean, the word genuine is one that should be avoided in documents anyway, because why on earth would officers not give genuine and conscientious consideration to what they do? I always rather thought that was in the job description. So the fact that it's had to be written down suggests to me that there was anxiety about whether this was really happening. And more particularly, I do not understand how anybody could believe that the comments on the budget reflected either genuine and conscientious consideration, and how those could have been taken out when finalizing any proposals or the decision was consciously made because I've been through all of the engaged Barnet comments. And yes, we are very diligent in how we provide access to all the consultations which a few people engage in, but we don't seem to actually explain why we have ignored their suggestions. And given that you prefer these papers by saying being the listening counsel is one of your major objectives, that it was the first policy that you introduced, and it was the precursor to the new strategic plan, I just don't see it. All right, let's pick that apart. I speaking on behalf of the cabinet, but also lead of the labour group in Barnet, we are quite happy to be genuine and conscientious, even if you have trouble with that, Peter. Peter. The wording is there, and it is in some government principles, gunning principles and so on. It is not only under chief offices, it's also under decision makers. And what it does is to talk about giving, you have to consider the results and show that you've considered it. But if you would rather, from your point of view, not be genuine and conscientious, that's fine, but those are important principles and we stick to them. But that was only half of what I asked you. The other half of what I asked you is, when you describe yourself as the listening counsel, don't you think that gives you an obligation to show people that you have listened? Because if people respond to the consultations, like the budget consultation, and effectively, all that happens in the report on that consultation is an endless list of who said this and who said that, with no analysis of what the impact would be of doing what they asked or favoured, and no analysis of why you rejected this other than it would affect the budget, it seems to me that this is not evidence of a listening counsel. Partly because of some of those ideas, and given that we are talking about a consultation that 0.002% of people replied to, it was not a vote or a referendum. We have a statutory duty, and as well as being genuine and conscientious, we will also stay within the law. And our statutory duty was to have a balanced budget, and the suggestions that came forward would not necessarily have left a balanced budget. And we have to take, and we take our statutory duties seriously. I was never suggesting that you should not take your statutory duties seriously. What I was questioning was, you make a big deal at the beginning of these papers about being a listening counsel. You say that it was the first thing you did, and it is the foundation of what you are, but I don't believe you thought through the implications of what being a listening counsel is. Because you don't listen. People make suggestions, and broadly they're ignored. If you don't agree with something, it doesn't mean you don't listen. You just don't agree with those conclusions. If I give you some examples of a listening counsel that you boo-booed and disagreed with was the work on the environment with both the young people in the resident citizens panel. The co-production within adults, within children, within a lot of services. We can give example after example, where we do more than listening. We sit down and have the conversations with residents. If I see other members want to speak. Councillor Houston, then Conlon. Councillor Zinken, I mean, to be fair, I remember as a North Finchie councillor not being a member of all the tone team. 50% of the people, as I recollect, wanted it to stay, and 50% of the people wanted it to move. So, I agree a decision was taken for it to stay. The question is, and this goes back to the conversation we had in part about Edgeware. And I've talked to Fabian about this as well and made a suggestion as to how he can help in this area. It's the fact that we find it very difficult to deal. I mean, we can be very clear why we've taken a decision, but we find it very difficult to explain to people why we think they are wrong. And sometimes I believe residents need that. And my observation to you all, we've changed the constitution. We've focused everything on the cabinet. And that has changed the role of ward councillors. And it's changed the way in which consultations are responded to, because we don't have the committee meetings with the details we had before. And I think it's problematical. Is it possible? Yeah. So, I think you're muddling up two different things here. Sorry, with the two different policies. One is a consultation policy that lays out legally and updates what we need to do as a council and how that's to be done. Our community participation strategy, or an update, explains what we have done to this point. Listening council is much more than just issuing consultations. It's very much with the leader listens, with all of the things that we have built in across the way. We have systematically changed how the council does its business over the past two and a half years. And I'm sorry if you've missed that. I don't think it was something that was there at all under your administration. Residents were just sort of ignored. They weren't part of decision making. They weren't there. What we've tried to do is reset the way that is done, particularly with our least heard communities. And that this is done collaboratively and differently. And that includes ward councillors and residents as well. It's a very different process to what was there before. Thank you. One more question. Thank you. Thank you, Lina. It was just, well, two things, if you don't mind. The first bit, which Councillor Conway, we talked about earlier, and it says on page 66, that the launch of the community asset panel will enable communities to have a greater role in decisions around the use of buildings for social benefit. So that's just that one. It's there. Sorry. Just on that. That's a completely different thing. So that's not the Graham Park Community Fund panel. That is a different. It comes under Graham Park Community Panel. So that's all I can say. The Community Assets Panel is something different that comes up elsewhere. We can check that. The Graham Park Community Panel will distribute the first round of grants, it says. Yeah. To do with activities in Graham Park. The Community Assets Panel is something completely different. Oh, right. I can come to that one. I'm just trying to clarify that, but we can keep that. I shall have a look for it. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. So, sorry, the other question briefly was about the pilot study regarding understanding community spaces and places in East Barnet. And at one point in it, I know it's only brief coverage of it, it talks about the key findings, about what is at risk on local assets and doing some kind of sustainability work. And I just wondered how, what your plans work to, to support the sustainability of at risk community assets. In a way, that you're talking about borough wide, it's what the community asset panel. So, we're setting up a panel. And part of that will be looking at the use of the, of existing, it's not just about new community, it's not just about applications, things to be declared community assets. It's also about discussion, use of. So, it would be one that, that would be discussed at. Yeah. Yeah. So, so is this then, I mean, cynically looking at it, because this is what happened at, because I was at the meeting in East Barnet, and quite a lot of residents were getting the feeling that they just wanted the council to, to maximize the use of the building. So then they could get another building to either rent out or sell. And that was the feeling that was coming back from the 35 people that attended that meeting in East Barnet church. To be honest, I wasn't one of the people. No. But thank you for letting me know. Thank you for reporting back. It's been a pleasure. If you want to know more about that meeting, we can have a chat later. Yeah. Well. Okay. It was quite a good meeting. It was interesting. Indulgent. I'll, I'll move on, but I don't know if you want to stay for the task. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'll just quickly go through. There's no petitions, no deputations, no public questions, no matters referred to the executive. There's not particularly report, but we are, the first, the item 10 on the agenda is the cabinet response to the Barnet highway network task and finished group. And again, it was a good piece of work. I'll add up to that. Anyway, I don't know if you want to say something about it. Just briefly, just to say thank you to the, to Stella Kintan, who was the clerk, as it worked for the, for the, for the group, who did a splendid job and as the patients of a saint. Um, and to Ian as well, who gave in lots of his time as well. And to all the professionals. And we got a lot of professionals in who came. And in fact, in fact, Councillor Schneider and came to our first meeting or second meeting. Um, but we got a lot of the, uh, various professionals came and gave their time free of charge and spoke to the group, uh, willingly and openly. And I'd just like to say a thank you to all the members of the task and finish group who contributed to all the findings and all the work that went into creating the recommendations, which I believe you've accepted. So thank you very much for the positive response. I don't know if you want to say something, Councillor Schneider. Well, well, yeah, in the spirit of being so, so conciliatory on this report, I mean, I agree. You are, you are, and I think this was, this was a model of a good piece, a good piece of scrutiny on an issue that residents have, have a lot of interest as, as do ward members. Um, but I think it is, it was a really good piece of work and you did get a good range of people along to the meeting, as you say. And as a result, those recommendations have all been accepted and the report sets out some more details about how they, that, how they're all going to be taken forward, which, you know, includes reviewing the asset management plan, how we can better use data to prioritize. And in relation to the, the earlier session on questions, there are lots of references in here to involving ward councillors because they play a very important role in inputting into the work in their wards when it comes to, when it comes to the highways plan. And that is already part of the process. But as I set out here with the, uh, network hierarchy tool and other ways, we can look to see how we can, how we can do that, how we can do that better. So, yeah, it's, I think it's good. I mean, I just, just to follow on from that. Um, I think one of the things about the councillor involvement was it, it came because the, the, the, the meetings with officers was can, were cancelled in the run up to the 2022 elections. And I'm not sure, even now, I still don't know why they were cancelled. Um, and they never seem to get started again. And, and people always had an awful lot of questions about, uh, which roads were being replaced, which, which pavements were being replaced and, and maintained. And they just wanted to be able to say, well, actually, yeah, you're right. That this, this particular pavement's dreadful state, but actually there's, there's something that's worse or something else has happened. And that was to flag up things that are potential, potential, uh, problems in the future. So they just wanted to have that, uh, meeting that they used to have, uh, where three, you know, the three, the two or three ward councillors would meet with highways officers to go through the whole list. And that was part of the reasons for that. I think, did you say before the 22 locals they were? Yeah, they, in the run up to that. So they, so the meetings would have been held in January, February of 2022, but for whatever reasons they never happened. I mean, since then, I, well, before then and since then, we have had those meetings and all that. Well, they certainly haven't happened in Barnet Bale, I can assure you. And quite a few of the councillors on the calls were, were adamant that they, they hadn't had any meetings. Well, um, they got sent a list. Here's the list. And that was it. But everybody, um, wards was sent a list and then the offer to take up, take up the offer of a meeting. There was one cycle where I think those meetings were slightly later than we would have wanted them to be, but they, there has always been, been that offer of a meeting to back up the presented list, which is based on, you know, the objective, um, assessment of all the roads and pavements. But yeah, but that, that's my understanding that they have, we have always had those and certainly we'll have them going forward. Yep. And that, and the other thing was, was, was in the communication was to make sure the public, um, could understand the reasons for why you haven't done their road versus why you're doing someone else's road. So it could be made clear because it is a very emotive and important issue as I'm sure Ross will tell you as he goes down Torrington. Oh, no, I think, I think we would all, we would all agree with that. And that's what, and anything that helps residents to understand that is, is definitely welcome because, um, you know, everybody's main concern obviously is their road and the pavement that, you know, near their house or where they travel frequently. But we need to be able to explain that there is an evidence behind the prioritisation that's carried out. So I'm very keen that we take out that suggestion and make that clearer to residents. Well, I'll, right, thank you for that. So thank you for the report and, uh, the fact that we are agreeing with the recommendations is cast iron proof that we're at Listing Council. The cabinet is asked to agree to propose responses to each of the recommendations of the Barnet Highway network task and finish group as set out in appendix A. Oh, are we happy to agree all of them? Agreed. Okay. Thank you. And thank you. Well, there you go. All right. Um, I'm happy if people are, if we have the discussion debate on items 11 and 12 together, but obviously the voting will be separate, but there is, there is a big overlap between the community participation strategy progress report and the consultation policy. Don't know if you want to introduce me and then I don't know if both officers are coming together or we're taking one. Don't mind. Um, yeah, so I wanted to thank everybody for the work that's happened on this, um, since two and a half years ago when we brought in the first paper, there has been a complete change in the way the council listens and works with residents and has a conversation and a dialogue. The aim has been to, um, learn by doing and to embed this change as we go, which suggests that we are always on a journey, but it is really, um, rewarding to see that with culture and the environment and some of the key flanks of, of what we've been doing, that there is very clearly a journey in the way that has worked and continues to inform policy and everything else to say something. No, thanks. Can. Thank you, Councillor. Um, yes, as you have seen. Um, this is the second annual update of the original community participation strategy, which was first set out in 2022, um, which mainly was a set of principles and approaches, but also sets of kind of, um, and I think this, this latest report goes back to what's developed further from that. Um, so you'll see that the citizens assembly on sustainability and there are many different examples of many different ways and we're, and we are learning as we're going. It's an important thing. Um, uh, but the second part of the concept is given what, uh, we questioned about earlier, that they're not referendums, but it is important that we take, I think it's due regard, and I, I think we do, but, and this slight difference with statutory consultations, I think it's a natural book for residents. If they agree with what they're saying, it proves they're right. They're right. And if they disagree with what we're doing, it proves we're not listening. You almost can't win in those situations. But the important thing is decisions are more likely to be as part of a partnership, is how you work a partnership with residents. But I'll leave you open if people want to make comments. Um, I will ask you to sum up, sir. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Counts the bag. It's actually more appropriate and might be more meaningful. Part of that is whether you're looking for quantitative, how many people say this or that or qualitative. Yeah. No, I might have missed it. I know that you said 130 people from marginalized groups participated. Uh, so in terms of consultation, yeah. Um, it, this isn't a toolkit, so it's more of guidance of our children. I can't for more. Yes. Thank you. Um, just, I mean, welcome. This is, it's an exciting journey in terms of engaging in consulting. I think it is actually really important that through this paper and through the work that's been done in the council, that we do recognize those different types of engagement and consultation, because that sets the expectations for the community individuals or other groups. Um, and the comment you made about the intersectionality work is, is a really important one because that was about drilling down and, and seeing a statistic and then actually asking why. And that's, that's one whole area within the consultation. Um, I think it, it's really important that we understand that breadth. And it certainly shows up, you reference the work around the joint health and wellbeing strategy. Uh, well, health and wellbeing communications, but obviously the, the big project during this year has been the development of the next joint health and wellbeing strategy. And that has been a much more engaged process, partly because we're not in the COVID period, but actually I think we've learned and drawn from a range of work that's been done in other areas across the council. And I think that's a really important point that we're all learning. We're all evolving that many of us have been involved with consultation or engagement projects with our, in our wards as ward counsellors and recognize that it's not always an easy relationship. And so developing those skills is really important. Having the framework that sits above that does, um, help us all understand the parameters there. And finally, I think just a reflection, not from one of our consultations, but actually just, it, it, it made me think very strongly about it. Um, the work around the, the, the start well project that was run through the ICB actually recognizing that sometimes you need to look and engage with groups who have very specific points of view because you'll want to take them into account when you're developing a service. Um, it doesn't mean that it's, um, a referendum, but it is really important that we recognize in, um, that full breadth of input and, and sometimes it involves looking at the way we can solve have sufficient time and sufficient information, but also must be conscientiously taken into account in the ultimate decision. Um, and that, that, cause that came up in the questions. I think it's important to say that we're not just interested in the process. We want to stick to the principles as well. And perhaps that's one of the. Um, sorry. Um, yeah, I'd completely echo that. And also I wanted to say that, you know, in the participation strategy at the very heart was the, we go where people are. Um, and I think the council has done a huge amount of that in the parks consultation, you know, in all sorts of things. We've literally gone where people are and also officers and cabinet members and ward councillors and everybody have also gone where people are in their position on things and how they feel about things. Um, and I, I think that spirit of engagement is really important sort of beyond politics for how we build trust in our organizations and in the dialogue that we have with communities and also how we deliver effectively. So just last week in Graham Park, um, in terms of co-production and discussing the way in which the council is communicating with residents, it was a conversation and it was really important learning and it will make our communications much more effective. And there's numerous examples of that across all the policy areas, um, that have really helped and give residents a voice within what we're doing. So thank you. I'd say that these are actually two items on the agenda. So we'll take the vote separate. The discussion is because consultation is one of the ways of participation. On the Barnet community participation strategy, the recommendation is we note the progress described in this report in delivering the, uh, community participation strategy. Are we happy to note that? Yeah. All right. Item 13 has been deferred. So we move to item 14, which is the kinship care policy. Well, thank you, Will and Rosie. Um, if you want to introduce the item in your hand. Thank you. Um, I really welcome this paper. And it's been a long time coming. And it's been a long time coming. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I really welcome this paper. Um, the remuneration that care has received. Um, and we're going to move to item 14, which is the kinship care policy. Well, thank you, Will and Rosie. Um, and to cut the web if you want to introduce the item in your hand. Thank you. Um, I really welcome this paper. And it's been a long time coming where we actually can have some expertise, um, between fostering and kinship care to make sure that we don't differentiate in terms of the, um, the remuneration that carers receive. And long term, I hope that the result of this will be that because we can look more for taking kinship as something that they can do for a child that needs care, it should hopefully then mean that less young people then maybe need to come into care. And if you look at the age range of people that do kinship, generally, it's often older people, grandparents. I mean, sometimes it is younger people. But often it is an older cohort that have maybe retired and not necessarily have the funds that would love to do the job and have the funds or the means to actually carry out the job that they would like to do. So it's a very comprehensive paper. I think the only thing that probably the carers probably find a bit daunting is the process that they need to go through to actually be made sure that they are a kinship carer. But that's something because of the safety of the child we certainly have to do. And I'm sure that they will get as much support as possible and training and advice from the people in the department to actually take this forward. So this is a very welcome paper and something that will add to the cohort of people we have that can actually look after the children that need extra care that can't live with their family either for a short or for a longer time. Thank you. Yeah, sorry, Brenda. Well, I have to take advantage of that. This is really a combination of a great piece of patient care reforms that are coming through the system where we want to do family decision making much earlier on in the child's journey through our system so that if families… Everybody seems content and happy. Other than to echo those comments. I just want to say that offer as our foster carers because we're a fostering friendly employee, employer, and so we're going to do that for the kinship carers as well where they get extra time off. One thing that we do as well, some of you may have been to sort of the annual event we have for looked after children, but we also do an event for kinship carers as well. And I think that's really beneficial that they actually can meet other families that are in the same situation and the children in their care can also meet other youngsters in the same situation. And that has been really positive as well, something I'm sure will always continue. What we're very pleased about is that some of the strategies that are coming through, some of the ideas that are coming through is very, very much centered on the craft. So I think that the challenge for families is to understand the responsibilities and also to actually understand the extent of the support out there for kinship carers. So we're in a really good position to be able to support families to support their children. So we'll move on to the recommendations and just to note that recommendation two is slightly amended from the one in the papers. The recommendation one is resolved that the kinship care offer is agreed for implementation to make changes to the kinship care offer if required due to updated legislation or government guidance during the period 20, 25 and 20. Yes. Thank you. Item 15 has been deferred. So we move on to item 16. We see a ward of the parking enforcement contract. I believe it's councillor Snyderman. Thank you, leader. Yes. This report is recommending the agreement of the new contractor to run the parking enforcement service for five years from November 20, 25, which includes provision for an extra two years if that's decided at the time. Just to note, this will be a new contractor and a change of contractor from the current one and will be up cover, but they, in the assessment of the tenders, they came top importantly both in quality and in price, which is, which is why they were successful. So the contract will start on the 1st of November. It also includes importantly, and as listed in the report in section 4.14, some key parts as part of the part of their social value proposal, which include apprenticeships and the provision of an electric vehicle fleet to reduce carbon. The other important thing to note is this is for, this contract is for the enforcement part. There will be, when options appraisal was carried out beforehand, which determined that it would be better to separate the enforcement contract from the various other contracts, which include IT, cashless parking, etc. And they will be considered through separate tender exercises. But this is by far the biggest one, which covers that members of staff who are out on the street enforcing, enforcing the parking contract. And as I say, the bid from APCOA came top for quality and value and officers will be working for a smooth transition with a view to this new contract starting in November. And thanks to officers for all the work that's gone into this, which includes Rebecca Eden, who's online, who's taken the lead on this and is, I don't know if Rebecca wanted to add anything, but it's certainly available for any technical questions. Thank you, Alan, for introducing the report. Yes, as Alan has noted, this is the this report is setting out the outcome of the procurement process for the new parking enforcement contract to start on the 1st of November. I'm very happy to take any questions if there are any. I only have one, which is obviously this is for the bulk, the enforcement part of it. The other bits that are separate, will they also be due to come into effect from November? Yes, yes, there will be that there. There are a number of mostly IT contracts and, you know, ancillary services, which will also be entering into new contracts from the 1st of November. The current in parking enforcement contract is is all inclusive. It includes a really broad scope of services, and the decision was taken last year as reference within this report towards an options appraisal, which looked at a mixed economy and commissioning specialist services from specialist suppliers in the marketplace. Approving the award to the successful tender tenderer to deliver these services for a period of five years on the 1st of November with an option of the council's sole discretion to extend the contract and for the finalisation of the contractual arrangement. Are we happy to agree that? Agreed. Thank you. Move on to item 17, which is Barnett Homes annual delivery plan, which will be Councillor Houston's plan because this is the final delivery plan of the 10-year Barnett Homes current management agreement, and I think it comes to Cabinet every year. I went to committee before, and it's very much aligned as people. It's a really good, I think, picture of closing. I think, you know, there are a, I mean, if I was to, if I was to, you know, bring out in terms of highlights, I think one of the, one of the things that I would say is Barnett Homes say has been in existence since 2004 and has developed a respected brand, a strong track record for the changes that have come in over the last couple of years. I think keeping residents safe has also been a key challenge, is a key policy and has a real, had a real effect. I apologise, I've got a slightly short thought. I think one of the things across the House last year was the resident was in response to concerns about repairs and putting together an affairs improvement plan. And one of the things you can see through this, to keep people in their homes, but also, part of that is obviously the very key role that Barnett Homes has played in terms of delivering the new 1,000 homes is setting itself quite, you know, significant targets, increased targets. And they, and actually, maybe in my role as cabinet members, I should be asking Kate about those because, because actually some of them are very challenging. And I, you know, I, full confidence that Barnett Homes and long-term voids have been challenges there. I, but again, you know, the, the, the, the prior risk assessments, they, they, they not be appearing at any more committee meetings as possible. I don't know. Depends on when the, when the, because Sean is moving on, I, a, shortly from, one of the reasons why, you know, as I say, was a party, we, we've agreed to a new 10 year management contract is because of the quality that you've certainly missed. And, and I've always very much appreciated Sean's very, very blunt and very kind of honest approach to telling things as they are. And, which in housing is really important. Because if I'm HRA situation, I, but anyway, I'm going to shut up now. And they have, I'm going to hand over to Kate, because I think there are a number of which is like ways to say a few words as well, who sits on the board of Barnett. So thank you very much, Councillor Houston. So it's just layering on your points being lots of investigation on just guidance, trees of damage. The moment that property is let every day that that property, since it's looking up, we've got an action plan for the year ahead around. Um, voids generally, um, including major works, voids, but it also ties into a piece of work. I'll, I'll, I'll open for questions. I'll open it up to members. Um, I must admit to being staggered to hear that somebody doesn't want to come to more evening meetings in the town hall, but, you know, each, each to their own. But I think it's worth pointing out that as well as the extra statutory duties from both on fire and on the car, the dam. I think it's 1.3, but there's an explanation of the increase in demand for temporary houses. And on top of that, the extra, the increase in unit costs per, um, temporary accommodation or emergency accommodation. That's putting a lot of pressure on. Anyway, um, members of the committee. Thank you for the very comprehensive report gives us lots of information. Um, so yes, we're building new homes. We're purchasing new home quality standards, um, not new burdens, funding associated with this legislation. Um, but it's, it's, it's a mixed bag from our perspective currently. And for those, um, close to homeless due to financial pressures of, um, the last few years. Um, but, but clearly, um, the, there are some potential benefits. As those, in terms of those who are making, uh, the most significant homeless applications at the moment. They are largely, our biggest cohort is for many of those. They're coming either through different routes, a lot of sofa surfing or unstable accommodation. And it's, while, um, not withstanding that, um, loss of PRS section 21 notice is still cobalt. But we're seeing a leveling off. And for those of you who see the dashboard on a regular basis. Like families approaching that kind of traditional loss of PRS. It is a factor, but it's kind of really stabilized in the last four or five years. So, um, I, I think it's not, it's not going to be the full answer to, um, the TA pressures. But clearly for, um, bringing, you know, could the potential for. Uh, financial assistance policy. Um, which aims at, uh, I think just really increasing the flexibility to make. Um, again, do you want to introduce it? I've got Melinda here. 2500 long term empty properties in the borough. And this scheme's been around for a while. But this is basically an upgrade to allow us to be flexible. As flexible as we can be. I don't know, Linda, do you want to say a few words? Um, just to, uh, say it's, it's, it's. Okay. Do we have any. Uh. I don't know anything, anything from members. That's from the counter. It's always good to have adjustments. Yeah, I'll, I'll say a few words. Um, try not to be too long. Um. Obviously. Adult social care, unlike the national health service. Is not free at the point of delivery. And we are required by law to financially assess people who meet the criteria. Eligibility criteria for a service. Adult social care services provided by local authority. And so. We need to have a charging policy, which reflects our duties to, to assess people. Financial situation. And to charge for the services. They receive. Um. The, the report tonight is really a lot of hard work put in by, by Dawn and her, her colleagues. To thank Caroline. She's still there. She. Um. A home who did a lot of work on this policy. So basically what we're really trying to do is to update our policies and in relation to charges. Um. Specifically. Um. By creating two policies, one specifically for community care by people who are living in the community. And their contributions and one for residential and nursing contributions. His financial assessment process is slightly different. So to have two separate policies improves the clarity of the policy for the purpose and scope. Both policies set out the background and legal framework. Um. With links also to the statutory relevant statutory guidance. And I'm, I'm sure that these have been signed off by our legal department. Um. Other amendments in this report include information on the ombudsman service and the ability to depletion description. Um. And there, there to be found in the body of the report. It also includes a reference to the rest by weekly care rate, which I'll come to in a minute. And for the inclusion of an assisted technology, um, charge. What's interesting is that, um. The, uh, the, uh, AD, ADSS, which is, I think is, um, social services directors and professional association. I've done some, um, some, some research really about client contributions as a, as a, as a contribution to spend on adult social care. And what's interesting is that Barney is quite low in terms of what it charges. It's, um, it's residents for council services for adult social care. For example, one is 8.2% in comparison to the London average of 10%. And the overall England average of nearly 13% with 12.9%. So there's a huge difference between what we charge our residents. And some other, uh, other boroughs around the country who have responsibility, uh, other social care. Some of the things that I just want to, uh, draw your attention to. So the, the weekly rate for rest by care is, um, currently 130 pounds. I'm going to increase that, uh, to 250. But the actual cost is somewhere between six and 700 pounds a week. So there's still some more work to do on that one. In relation to, I think it was councillors in can ask the question some months ago, but we're just in this report. You'll see the cost recovery for arranging. For people who are, who are above the capital's savings threshold. I.e. what we might call self funders. And there will be a yearly, uh, charge for the administration and support of the care by the council of 1,631 pounds. Um, so, um, they're, they're kind of the, the, the big issues. Um, I think it's important also to point out that, um, we do have a number of, uh, debts. And, uh, the, the, the self, the self funders, um, contribute somewhere in the region of 1.2 million pounds that they still owe us. So not only have we arranged for them to have, um, care in, in, you know, in a residential home or a home for which, um, they're paying the, the agency. They still owe us collectively 1.2 million pounds. So, but obviously the debt collection for adult social care is beyond your time in parking, you know, parking in a CPS urban. You shouldn't have done so. So that, that's really what I want to put before, um, and it's a nice, I think it's really just bringing policies up to date. Uh, and so I, um, I will, I will try. And that was a couple of officers who could help to answer any question of the cabinet may have. But I think that's, you know. Uh, thank you. I don't know. I mean, there's two or three things. One is, um, there's obviously the, I think. No, I think you've some, both summed up very well, but nothing to add. Happy to answer any questions to them. So we don't do delivery of care when people need it, if that was what was behind your question. Um, but we make it clear in the policies that if somebody having gone through the correct back contribution would be backdated to the day that the care started. Um, going back to the start of your point. You're absolutely right that we do make sure that people have mental capacity to be part time specific. Um, um, people may have a family member who helps them, who doesn't necessarily have a, um, a lasting power of attorney. Do encourage people to have formal formal arrangements. People may. If somebody already does not have capacity and there is no lasting power of attorney, then of course we may have to apply to the court of protection or a family member that they have to apply. And because obviously once the. There is an exempt part. And to be honest, I think it's difficult to discuss without it being in the exempt. So what I'm suggesting, if I can just take. Um, yeah, you missed a very interesting discussion there. Um, but, but we know, yeah, we know the exempts and then we go on to the actual recommendations, which are that cup or cabinet, a shareholder representative online. I think it's authority for the date of amendments and any associated legal documentation relating to this amendment to the homes building fund loan facility between the council. Uh, across LP, homes, and others to have the council. So we'll fix the document. The cabinet delegate authority to the executive director of growth in consultation with the section 151 officer to agree any further amendments to the. Homes England loan that are of benefit to, and do not have. Okay. Sorry to disappoint you, but we'll have to finish the meeting. All right. Thank you everybody. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.