Transcript

Thank you very much. Good evening, everyone, and good evening to those residents watching, and good evening, Michael, for joining online. Good evening, everyone. Can everyone hear me on Zoom? Michael, can you hear me? I can, loud and clear. Thank you, Councillor Paul. Thank you. This meeting's been live-streamed on YouTube, so welcome to everyone who's watching, and all those residents. Elected members of the committee unable to join in person are able to join remotely. I don't think there's any members who will be joining remotely tonight. We've got one. Apologies, that's powerful. Please, can we note that? In regards to meeting etiquette, please, I ask for you to indicate by raising your hand or try to catch your eye. People online should raise their virtual hand, and we'll monitor the screen, what's I've got in front of me for virtual hands. Please note that the chat function on Zoom will not be used at this meeting. Questions or comments on the agenda patch should be raised via the chair. Colleagues, as usual, we have a busy agenda tonight, and I'm keen to move at pace, speed, and adequate time. I'll repeat for the members, and you will see. Please keep questions concise, to the point, and focused. No comments or speeches. If you go off-piste, I'll bring you back in order. Also, to officers, really appreciate you being here. Please be direct, honest. If you don't know the answer, it's okay in my committee to say, you know what, Councillor Paul, I don't know. Can I write to you? That's perfectly okay. Is that okay for you guys? You don't need to wing it or pretend you know when you're done. Yes, please. All right? The meeting of the London, the meeting of London, Brampton, Crime and Environment, Transport, Security Commission, is now in order. My welcome, everyone, here. I'm here. What I'll do is to go around and call yourself very briefly, very concise, so we know who we are, and we'll do that. can we start from councillor uh councilman's council first stratford on the platform chandler feathers sounds level east and summer rush plaster west canning town east councillor carlin lee parkway blasto sir councillor sabia kamali for stratford ward oh that's terrible chair of the committee um we start artemis my one of our parents angie and scrutiny officer to the committee afterwards cassie he had a scrutiny conference um deputy cabinet member for highways and sustainable transport councillor sarah ruiz cabinet lead for environments and sustainable transport custom house ward jb co acting corporate director for environment sustainable transport organ and head of engineering for uh highways charles martin lukis traffic management board safety and platinum design martine gabrielli uh principal project manager for highways and sustainable transport craig nicole project manager for highways and sustainable transport thank you good evening so one apology for absence sorry michael i'm sorry just to introduce myself for everyone's benefit i'm michael ben the assistant director for traffic and parking and also thank you for joining us from the sunny devon i'm really i'd really appreciate it definitely definitely you know um yeah i would also like to highlight but um michael has come on his annual leave that is true so he kind of pointed out and michael um thank you for coming on your annual leave and really appreciate it and we'll be that would be brief to the point and appreciative of your time tonight thank you thank you so there's one apology for absent because you councillor garfield it's only declarations of interest in any of the matters tonight apart right okay fine minutes i'll take the minutes as read accuracy any accuracy points any matters arising can i say aaron and artemis well done really good set of minutes also to the committee a really strong set of actions so well done on that really good good piece of work there i'm going to move on so i move but the minutes of the previous meeting be agreed as a correct record i'm going to have that moving second video very much at notice okay so we're going to go into the parking policy as we go on i want to give a bit of thanks actually and it shows the constructive nature of scrutiny one to the committee especially councillor kamali for raising um some of the issues in the parking policy so to councillor morris and councillor rivers who were engaged in the process outside of this meeting and i flagged up the concerns in that and also i must say thank you to michael we had i think about a 50 minute call uh when you took me through the cabinet paper or some of the rationale and it was very helpful and we and i have noted there has been some changes in the parking policy which we'll discuss tonight have been really appreciated i think that's the power of scrutiny and officers and cabinet members working together to get a good outcome for residents i think it's really good but we know that because sometimes it's not so noted as well so then this item on parking policy is to review an update on the borough's parking policy following the recent um cabinet paper in december and a recent update to members members would have received a supplementary materials item certain preparation providing a high level overview of the recent findings that are provided by michael who's this michael ben who's the assistant director for traffic and parking um um so i'd like to extend the welcome to councillor rose and john morris that's a john morris our political leads if you want to introduce the item um give us a flavor i don't know did you run for the presentation how do you want to do it tonight i don't think well in the time saving really to be fair chair um i mean i think that the report that you have in front of you speaks for itself i would just like to say that actually it's not just the power of scrutiny it's also the power of proper consultation um you know normally we aren't great at consultation um but this this shows that actually we have listened and the changes have been made so but i'm quite happy to hand over i don't know whether john wants to add anything back michael just um one thing i would like to add is that often in consultations people see consultations as a reason to object to something complain about something but one of the things i found about this consultation is that actually many residents propose a different set of type of charges actually that's quite constructive and i would like to congratulate the residents that actually proposed those changes and that's one of the reasons why we enthusiastically took on board those changes have the ability to resurrect the dead you know that is that motive i have found that yeah um michael for you do you want to give me the overview comments and on what we'll do we can get straight to the members to ask a question on it that's all uh certainly thank you chair i mean i think the paper obviously clearly lays out um what what's transpired so we i developed proposals uh on behalf of parking in conjunction with councillors and councillor morris um ahead of last december in order to tackle two key areas one the need to improve local air quality and as you'll see within the paper that's in front of you this evening air quality is a contributive factor in the deaths of one in 13 people within newham and the administration will be very clear on its ambitions to improve local air quality and tackling pollution coming from vehicles uh is certainly at the vanguard of the efforts that we need to make as a borough and the second element is around the gun and tackling climate change and as the paper lays out um we have some real challenges in newham which has got um some of the most at-risk neighborhoods in terms of the risk of heat spots uh within the capital um and that the impact of vehicles in particular is one that is being the most challenging to address within the uk whilst there's been lots of efforts successfully to decarbonize particularly amongst energy vehicles remain the largest single contributor as a percentage uh to uk emissions and those levels have largely stayed level for the last 10 years so the paper that i put forward um and which is explained in what's in front of you today laid out four key areas to try and address um we looked firstly at diesel surcharges which is something that's been introduced by a number of london boroughs for since around 2015 and has been very successful in reducing the number of diesel vehicles um some boroughs such as hackney have seen a number of diesel vehicles declined by 45 over a seven-year period since the introduction of diesel surcharges um and it was felt that it was high time to introduce similar charges in newham in order to try and encourage that same speed of transition away from diesel vehicles towards cleaner and less polluting vehicles um the feedback from the consultation highlighted sorry before i go into detail chair would you like me to walk through the details of what the consultation feedback was uh or would you like me to really keep it very brief and leave maximum time for questions no thank you we've gone through the contextual feedback i think none of the questions will come on that anyway i think we'll do a bit then so we've got the the the the the report provides us the data anyway uh so we'll just go straight to questions you okay with that michael yeah yeah yes something fine with me okay is there like a super fact you wanted to bring out a couple of headline facts though just to frame it i think i i think the headline facts really that diesel surcharges have got a long track record in working to help speed up the transition away from diesel vehicles um and certainly is a change that i believe will really deliver local air quality improvements within the borough um the other changes really is just about strengthening the incentives for those driving electric and low polluting vehicles to uh see the benefit of reduced parking charges which we've applied across the board um whilst also increasing the prices for those driving the most polluting vehicles because one of the things that newham has not necessarily had in place historically has been a significantly large enough difference between the charges between electric vehicles and high-polluting vehicles to incentivize the kind of change that the administration would like to see delivered okay what i want to do i'll take the questions in threes right so i've got who indicated by i was councillor kamali councillor oday councillor lee parkway the second lot will be nate simon and councillors produce okay so two groups first group okay my questions are on consultation process and representation newham's population exceeds 350 000 residents yet only 467 individuals participated in this consultation on the proposed changes to visitors parking permit which represents less than 0.2 percent of the borough's population um given that many households rely on visitors permit for family support carers and essential service how can the council justify that this consultation was adequate captured the view of the most affected considering the low response um rate will the council reconsider repeat the consultation to ensure it generally reflects a need on affected residents okay palma my question is on again this topic so as i said 460 residents made a proposal and that's been adopted by the council which is a good example of however i wanted to ask about two and four so obviously i've said there's two payments one day but the two times it shows that that's a really popular second most popular category of parking time it's four why is that going up by 71 because we've said that we don't um try to make income on parking so why carly um i have a question in regards to the qualities impact assessment and what um what we don't see in the documents that we've received is what the impacts are of the through traffic to the borough and why is it that the poor people of newham are having to pay for these through traffic yeah quality but so you want to politically lead off and then bring in michael how do you want to do it or yeah i mean i'm so sabia's question i mean i would think that actually i know it's not a very big number but actually that is considerably more than we would ever get on most consultations um so you know those people who are really interested would would they would know about it and they they didn't participate so 471 i think it was was actually a really good um percentage of people who voted um you wouldn't normally get that in many other boroughs i think that the very fact that we've taken into consideration their their overwhelming wish to have a one or two hour six 12 and 24 has shown that we've listened um and so no we won't be going back out to consultation on that there is another paper coming to uh cabinet in may um and that will also form another consultation so we will look to see how we can how we can change the way in which we do the consultation by maybe advertising it a bit more et cetera et cetera um so i didn't quite understand your question but i just like saying it yeah so can you i've got the side behind you well i don't know slide what that one this is the permit that says family operation and there's two tables okay so if you see the table that says two hour yeah first column says yeah but in the second table that column isn't nice yeah my question is the first one that shows that that's a very popular permit the tier four one yeah so if that's so popular why are you choosing to increase the price to seven to one point i would come up with that regard and why why and that's and just to know i think that's that was my point so that question okay that's is this the one real talk yeah i mean it's it's me because these are no longer proposals but um it's it's mute because it's no longer a lot of proposals but i'm sure michael can uh comment on that michael so it isn't crazy because on the next slide it says where there's 24 hours so there's a lot of people in the consultation feedback but it's still there okay michael you want to answer councillor i would so just to walk through the three questions firstly in terms of the consultation process and the level of engagement we actually had 913 responses in total uh of which 467 uh put forward the proposals which form the backbone of the revised proposals that we are proposing to take back to cabinet uh in may for approval so you know picking up very much on what councillor really said in my experience that's a really high level of response to a relatively small consultation in terms of the levels of changes being made um and i think it speaks to the levels of engagement there are from newham residents um and the efforts we made through our statutory consultation but also making it abundantly clear on our website so that we could get as much engagement as we could from the public and i'm really pleased that so many residents did take part and gave us their views um in line with traffic management legislation um we will after going to may cabinet need to reconsult on the revised proposals as they do they're a substantive change on what was originally put forward so there'll be a further opportunity for the public to have their say um but obviously based around the new proposals laid out on the last slide within the paper um in answer to the second question i'm afraid the audio at my end isn't uh isn't great so i wasn't able to pick up the detail of the proposal but um on slide seven it outlined the proposals on the volumes of permits that were sold um what those charges currently look like for the nearest equivalent uh and proposals that were introduced for either a 24-hour or a um a two-hour visitor permit which is based very much on long feedback we've had for many years where residents have asked for something shorter to be able to be offered because not everyone wants to be able to part for six hours and in many cases felt they were overpaying for the privilege of doing so and but obviously the proposals that we are now accepting uh off the back of the consultation will see the instruction number one our visitor permit in addition to the existing products uh which will offer a significantly cheaper rate than has hitherto been available and lastly in regard to the equalities impact assessment um the reason why through traffic isn't included is that these proposals only deal with parking within the bar and therefore through traffic is not affected by proposals for vehicles that neither start nor end their journey within newham and that's why the causes impact assessment doesn't deal with the impact of those vehicles on local air quality okay thank you can i come back with supplementary then so just off the back of that michael thank you for that commentary um however your the documents of which we've received is titled improving air quality parking charges so we're improving air quality we're not also taking consideration other factors because surely we can't just charge in residents of newham when they're not necessarily the people in the problem indeed um but as the the paper highlights it's dealing with parking charges and therefore whilst there are undoubtedly impacts of vehicles crossing the borough um and uh obviously there are different ways to address that such as um low emission zones and other work that the council has such as low traffic neighborhoods in order to try and reduce uh vehicles traveling through residential streets and improving local air quality um in relation to parking itself uh those that can only deal with parking within the borough and that's where the the focus of these efforts uh has been addressed it is important to say though that we currently have within newham about 900 000 individual visitor parking sessions every single year you'll see within the paper um that includes proposals to increase charges uh for medium to high polluting vehicles in order to discourage the use of more polluting vehicles um by visitors and encourage modal shift towards uh sustainable and active travel in order to reduce the impact of those who choose to drive within the borough on local air quality and co2 uh what i'm going to do i'm seeing two people have indicated is this a new question or is it supplementary to the question you asked a supplementary but it's not helpful but i've got anything to do no yeah i can wait for the term supplementary it's a supplementary to the question in terms with the consultation very brief then yeah i mean generally um newham carries this consultation out through co-create on this occasion it didn't so it raises a question around the equality assessment of how this has been done because we have left out elderly young families disabled people with protective characteristic when we did this consultation so from what i've gathered um newham's consultation is done through co-create but this one wasn't i'd like to know why the consultation was done different and why the equality assessment wasn't done because it is people with protective characteristic um vulnerability and affected that weren't part of that were the reference groups consulted like same group young people yeah the co-production production were they consulted the co-production i don't know terry this is i don't know the answer um i'm bringing you don't i don't know why it wasn't done on michael is there any comments to that at all before we move on to the second side so in answer to uh both those questions so co-create wasn't used um that is my fault i was not aware being relatively new to the council of co-create being the primary route that we take consultations through i am now aware of that and i will give assurances to the committee tonight that future consultations including the consultations on the revised proposals will be done through co-create so that there is that opportunity to ensure the engagement and we can understand the diverse backgrounds of those who take part in consultation okay um i'm going to ask the political leads they want to come in but my question if the consultation has not been done to its maximum i use in the co-production groups could these policies be undermined at some point down the road by a challenge so therefore in order to do cop you know belt and braces would it not be ideal to run a co-create consultation to ensure but it's robust are we not subject to future challenge down the road i think in fairness uh chair that um with the next lot of consultation which will go out after may the six may the six i think yes they will we will now use co-create apologies that michael didn't know about co-create but also i think um we will arrange for it to be taken to for example the co-production groups it's actually that will add to that that will add something to protect the process john a second set of questions i don't think you want to add to the first set of questions at all um yeah so as um counselor we said and the numbers that we got in the consultation but also the quality of the responses were actually quite good and i'll call it one of the success especially compared to past consultations on parking but i would also add that um one of the gold standards that i highlight in consultation is the west time ltn where in comparison to other ltns in um country but also in the borough other consultations that is um we managed to achieve about half the equivalent of the local election turnout which is a stunning stunning turnout but that does not mean that we managed to get responses while we did manage to reach all the people in the world and i think there is a level of pressure where where we made the assumption that if we didn't receive any responses then somehow the consultation is a failure i i am a council tenant and actually uh housing is consulting on some of the recent changes in regards to the social housing regulators reports and i was asked did i want to be part of this consultation i asked my responses and i actually didn't feel like i had any input i didn't feel like i had anything to input into that consultation and i chose not to participate and i think there are cases where some people just may not have their opinion on something because they make a positive choice hey can i just clarify on simon's but i'm going to move on perhaps at the end if i get a chance finish our council colleagues nate simon country thanks um one of the other papers that we're looking at our level of revenue capital schemes why then are we not using this opportunity to introduce uh an suv surcharge size and weight based parkings cardiff paris bristol um right simon right no um i'll go to another question thank you i'm thinking about um we appear to be copying other london borrowers by putting a surcharge on diesel owner drivers or vehicle drivers because many leads etc the majority of diesel vehicle drivers are probably workers specifically private hire there's probably i think my last check when i checked with tfl there's nearly 8 000 of them many of those will be still driving diesel vehicles so and the question is the question is why are we doing it when if we're aware of that and it's common sense that we should be that with the new rules and regs coming via transport for london basically getting rid of diesel private hire vehicles once they hit a 10 suspension why are we charging when in reality they're naturally going down them too thank you simon my question how is it possible if lbn doesn't have the internal resources and licenses to conduct the necessary traffic morally brilliant so political leads do you want to ask those questions and we get the technical markers coming or just to come in yeah i know we had conversations about this um so what i would say is um uh non-electric vehicles are going to be banned from 2030 and i'm sorry i mean that seems seems like the government's going back hold on let him answer the question let's not have a debate so can you repeat that john sorry let him answer the question i was just going to repeat please okay so i i can't comment on that um but what i can comment on is what i know now and that uh those vehicles will be banned by 2030 or 2035 uh i think it's 2030 one of the things i am worried about is providing a preserve incentive for people to keep low weight into petrol based vehicles rather than transitioning to electric based uh electric evs when we are in a period of transition where more and more people are going into more and more people are transitioning to evs um and the only way to negate that is to do a dual permit based on weight and emissions but that complicates the system and makes it impractical um i would rather wait a few more years where we get a higher level people in evs before transitioning into weight based okay i think by the look of knight's face as a supplementary day quickly yeah i mean it's not impractical other boroughs are already doing it or looking at doing it uh to feel a combination of emissions and size and weight but even if it wasn't a combination even if it were just size and weight i i understand your your fear but that's why the national ban is coming in if it costs if electric vehicles are heavier therefore their impact on where repair is larger therefore their cost to us is higher and therefore we need to spend more maintaining roads so we should be charged even if they're electric and they're better on emissions they still should be paying their way so could we just just to take it rather than debate is there something you can take that away yeah and consider it bearing in mind native mentioned some national guidelines which and the national banding so surely we should take it be useful if you were to take that away and come up with an outline proposal which then perhaps scrutiny could be involved in at some point in shaping i've made it that's fine great happy that i'm gonna come to the next up simon your question you had two there sorry it hasn't answered it yet sorry sorry didn't answer simon's question question how are we thank you how are we charging for diesels when we're going to get rid of them anyway i mean i haven't got an answer to that michael will answer that okay just a question on that i can supplementary church privilege um in the in the paper you compare you say in summary look at islington and hackney they're you know blah blah blah whereas barking and dagging and havering don't have any charge obviously hackney and islington in disparaging to them are different population mix and industrial mix as our havering and barking and yes and those elf london boroughs more have a white van man and woman culture let's say then hackney and islington sorry for those online who are about to troll me you know aren't we aren't we perhaps discriminating against the hard working white van person of newham because surely to have a comparison with a more upperly mobile borough is not a very good comparator i'm sure that both acne and islington would say they had more in common with us than barking and having sure i mean i was just going to add when you mean white man brand you really mean um an independent trades person that drives a farm uh it's more of a point of clarification than anything else i'm that trades person could be a plumber lock with chippy who's got a van if i look at my neighbors in my street and my cousins who live in the outer boroughs they are more like you're more likely london's industrial head is in northeast london right all the trades people roughly being above average here why a resident could say we're discriminating against them working well i would also add to that some of the other proposals is that we're bringing in uh new types of permit to discharge higher and longer vehicles as well and actually that's also been a complaint as michael will highlight some of the signs have been vandalized because people with such as those trades people want to park but there's no limits but but also i would feel happier i think the committee feel happier if the comparison was with havering and barking like-minded out london boroughs then inner london because in in every other part of council services we're always compared with outer london boroughs not inner london i'll just do you want to i'll pay the note of that i'll leave that there okay so we've been saying this question's question simon's question my question hasn't been answered i know would shanty mind repeating the question is your question okay so i asked how is it possible for new home to monitor our quality fully if lpm doesn't have the internal resources and licenses to contact the necessary traffic modeling assessment so we we do i think we do have an air quality officer um so that capacity exists and then we have very limited this my question yeah and just to support my council colleague last month's meeting we had the air quality people there was an issue about air quality meters around silvertown tunnel yeah it wasn't quite a concrete yes we've gotten we're going to measure it i think that's basically because um if i might tfl have promised us x and have only delivered y so so silvertown tunnel is a prime example got nothing to do with us but unless michael's got an answer or any of my colleagues here about the air quality thing we can get an answer back to yeah yeah yeah and i think it's more what more what heft could we use with our city hall colleagues to ensure we get the resources monitor because it has been a committee and rightfully raised and i think it will be useful sarah if you were to bang the drum for new about especially around the barking row corridor game okay but michael may well have addition michael had some um um context to what you just heard uh certainly so uh firstly um on the question of uh size and weight restrictions just to um echo some of what councillor morris uh said you know we've got strong ambitions as a council to increase the levels of uh vehicles in the borough which are electric um and they're the the difficulties with moving towards weight based uh or including weight as a factor is that it will disproportionately affect electric vehicles which because of their batteries tend to be heavier for what are otherwise uh or outwardly similarly sized vehicles which will only drive up the costs for permits of those that make the transition towards electric which means that will decrease the incentives for people to make that shift and will lead to us having combustion engine vehicles on our roads for longer than would otherwise be the case like okay nate um the problem with that though is that this proportion of people who are paying for electric vehicles are wealthier and more able to pay those more expensive permits not necessarily not they're contributing higher costs for the council in wear and tear on the roads and then the larger vehicles contribute more to road debts uh congestion and take up more parking space and reversal so it's just when you look i know i'm obviously considering my population that i'm sympathetic to wanting to lower emissions through parking charges but not when it creates perverse incentives and not when it fundamentally undermines our ability to pay for the road maintenance that we have to i think that's a comment nate so not late you have used to road debts hey point well made we're not going to solve that tonight but i think you made this point well okay you made the point there's a comment um i've got felma and simon i got this is the last set right we've got if you can be brief on this one sorry go on michael uh sorry just chair to come in just on the other two questions that were raised so the first question in relation to why we're charging diesel surcharges for um diesel work vehicles you know it is the case that um business vehicles will tend to spend far longer on the road um due to the nature of the fact those vehicles are you know used for many hours a day for work purposes uh we'll often travel in relatively small geographical locations there are um in terms of i think the question that you're driving at was why are we looking to introduce a diesel surcharge when people are moving away from diesels anyway um the argument we would make is that that transition is not happening swiftly enough to tackle the problems of air quality that i explained at the top of my introduction um and you know alongside complementary support that's already in place from both a national government and also the mayor of london to support businesses to go green both through grants for uh introduction of infrastructure for ev charging at workplaces but also to help people shift towards electric vehicles um for small and medium-sized businesses we think these changes are complementary to that to provide the right level of incentive for those who are considering moving away from diesel vehicles to do so sooner than they otherwise would have done and just lastly on the question of air quality i'm afraid i don't have more to add i know that having had a conversation myself with our air quality team they certainly would be keener to be able to undertake more in-depth monitoring and have a wider range of air quality um sensors and monitoring stations across the borough um i think the nature of the changes that are being proposed and that we're aiming to deliver through these changes will be quite diffuse um and so perhaps may not be quite as easily identifiable as some of the more targeted changes that we make through the likes of uh healthy school streets uh or low traffic neighborhoods um but there's certainly conversations ongoing about how we can best support that team to do their work and to collate the evidence necessary to uh help us have a really good handle on what's happening with their quality in the borough and how we're and where we're seeing improvements okay last question thank you michael i've got felma simon carlene savia shan too and if we can be super brief super focused less comment more question it talks about how the increases for tf-125 especially are going to be quite a lot and really especially away from parking to do it but it also says that this includes much of the people just not paying yeah parking and so to mitigate them they don't have a full thought to call and check do we have to actually have the facilities to actually help these steps because if we don't then sometimes it's a problem thank you okay good question i think we do i think that we we can't really well targeting um parking infringements um but you also need to remember that a lot of these people who have larger vehicles have also got drives so therefore they're not parking on the road so therefore we're not charging them anyway yep so so do you know what i mean when they're not parking in bays they might just try and get away with it well they won't because we will have i mean you know you've only got to talk to the majority of residents who are absolutely livid at the amount of times that we charge people find them for parking so but and they also majority of those larger vehicles park on drives okay michael um anything to add you can if you want to yes or no just to say we have lots of civil enforcement officers who try to ensure that we protect our parking for residents and visitors and those that pay and those that don't um we will enforce against in line with legislation and the rules that we're committed to thank you simon thank you i'm going to go towards air quality rather than vehicles recent studies which have been released over the last three or four days are suggesting in central london that 73 72 of nitrous oxide emissions are created through gas boilers are we actually looking at that as a in albara of than that how much of our but we've always come out with figures of vehicles are creating this number of nitrogen oxides going out are we looking at gas boilers in what percentage of that is causing in that thing could you i don't know that's of a wider remit yeah so i think it's a it's a crossover question and obviously if we had the air quality people yeah i think that's something that that should go back to them yeah because the question is what is the composition of our noxus 2 and whatever yeah pms what's the company what how much of that is car based or vehicle based how much of that is gap i've made a note of that to go back to them good question time carlene thanks chair so my direct question is thinking about these parking charges and the changes these affect our council fleet and are are we also paying the council paying the same charges that we expect our residents to be paying what the council fleets did you say that's all fleets so buses cars vans everything that we own are they subjected to the same parking charges that the vehicles that our enforcement go out on in and park up they subject to the same council same fees as our residents are they have a question and the other question i just want to i guess it's not a question sarah it's more a in the future so in regards to the qualities impact assessment i just want to ask what i don't see in that is the effects it has on families that have to save the children because often families that have disabled children have bigger vehicles to accompany equipment and so on and so forth yeah i don't see that in the impact assessment and i'd like to see that going forward sarah there was we did discuss um we're going to redo the consultation uh so one of the things that we'll be doing is going to the new and parents forum etc and i'm sure that'll be something that they will raise right um sabia um on the equality impact assessment we talk about we emphasize on the environment benefit of um this but we don't talk about the financial impact on vulnerable groups um for example we're doing a comparison between six hours with two hours that makes no sense like even then we're paying more for two hours than we did for six hours so are we doing a financial um equality assessment because obviously we live in a bar where a lot of people are under the poverty line so these charges are for parking for visitors yeah so one of the the huge expressions was that actually and i would be i would be one of these people um i have maybe somebody come to my house maybe for two hours but i have to pay for six because that's my only choice at the moment whereas now i'll be able to play for two hours and feel that i paid for two hours and not wasted four yeah but i mean there isn't that much of a difference in in the pay there is because what you're paying for two hours is what you paid for six hours really um on this revised one where you are paying one pound 56 for six hours for two hours you're paying one pound two hours okay well you are but then a few times that by yeah but you wouldn't would you because if you because if you you wouldn't you're getting rid of six hours where people need six houses with a six hour permit one six twelve twenty four yeah okay so if you've got somebody coming around your house for six hours you aren't likely to buy six one hour permits are you you would buy a six hour permit okay unless i've missed something there michael uh so just to answer those questions directly so the first question around will the council be paying the same charges that everyone else is for any vehicle that has a permit the answer is categorical yes it's just as important we hold ourselves to the same standards and to account in the same way and having these surcharges will make sure that we are helping to strengthen the case for our colleagues in fleet to make the shift away from diesel vehicles where we still have them in respect of carers and those with disabled children obviously these changes don't deal with resident permits but it's important to say that we do have other support that we provide so we have a carer's permit so for anyone who's in sport carer's allowance we provide a permit at only 11 pounds per year which is certainly the cheapest carer's permit i'm aware of that's offered anywhere within london to support carers to do their vital work within the borough and just in answer to the last question the revised proposals which we've accepted in full from the uh residents that took part in consultation will see uh visitors being able to park for lower charges now than they have been up until now so previously i think you touched upon the cheapest rate you could pay was one pounds 56 for six hours and two pounds for mid-range tier three which is where most vehicles fall in now for people who are only visiting for one hour they'll be able to pay one pounds and one pound 40 respectively so that offers a cost reduction for people who are having visitors for a short period of time i think will be a very welcome addition to our product range right these are going to be super comments stuff questions right very brief one sentence comments clarifications but it was just clarification it goes back to the financial impact where where are people out who need permit for six hours so where they were paying 156 what i'm saying is they're paying six pounds so it has increased for six hour permit not two hours permit a six hour permit that's what i'm saying so it has an impact on people they're paying six pounds for six hours i don't know yeah this one i don't think so that's the old proposals that's the old proposal arlene um just just um in response michael in regards to the beats um at some point would that paper come back with how much money's been brought back from fleets in regards to the charges that the council have have received will there be a paper that says that because there has to be what money's been received for president parking permits will that be the same for the councils uh so that that figure will be rolled up in the overall level of income that comes in on uh business permits so we require uh council staff to apply for business permits in the same way that residents do i'm sorry the businesses within the borough do um i'm sure we can provide a breakdown in due course once we've had uh 12 months worth of data to collate the business permits are a a concession they are a lot cheaper than no in in a bank well you can pay a business permit it's 800 pounds a year yeah yeah but that thinking about the fleet those vehicles are out every single day right so residents could buy a business okay i mean if they want to you have to have a business right if the rms if the repaired vehicle go to a property do we put visitors parking permits on rms vehicles right every rms vehicle has a business permit however chair hold on hold on external providers like housing associations in this borough that have property multiple properties or people that are in temporary accommodation who need to repair people to come they would need a visitor's permit paid by the resident they can get a business permit well okay oh hold on let's say it then could we not all we all right so we need to get to the conclusion we know which housing associations roughly are in the borough yeah right could we write to them because this is a source of revenue for you guys then say your eligible these are our new charges you might like to get a business permit for your vehicles and that would everyone didn't do that i'll be shocked if they i mean i'll be shocked because these are housing associations and they would put permits across other boroughs other local authorities they weren't aware we had a business let's reverse it so our tenant do we actually inform our tenants but they don't have to get a visitor's permit for housing tenant repair person coming i'm not sure we don't do that about housing associations no right but we can say i'm sure michael would have made a note of time right so yeah shantu and simon very briefly shantu first go go and shantu very briefly and he's got a comment right okay go on then hss is the part of the border strategy that uh to create healthier and safe astute that's the next section next section that's the next not this section no i'm talking thank you thank you very quick question thank you michael for clarifying professional carers pay 11 pounds a year to park where on their caring duties i know underline the word professional what about carers who are looking after elderly relatives that official carers have perhaps claiming benefits as official carers are they entitled to those i think i think that they are they that you you so the answer is carers permits are something that i'd know to be right you can no one said you couldn't well hold on i want to hear what michael's got to say go on michael hold on hold on sarah have you finished yes you can right yes the answer is you can yeah yes you can you can and mike it's nothing thank you michael is nodding in the affirmative aren't you not your mic yeah right great so belmont my question is going to be the surcharge on businesses so you make comparisons with other buyers on how much they pay for their future we don't think about the reduction that's made but on patient it says the opposite opposite step that with this reduction uh we accept reduction between standards that would be ס what's the question briefly so the question is how come up with the idea that that's a question like that so that that that's based on the experiences that other local authorities have seen following the introduction of diesel surcharges but there's nothing about that right so michael can you add the justification in the report perhaps in a cup in a small paragraph to justify data in the report sure really thank you right um just one final thing in how long michael have we had this system the path of the parking system and the reason yeah because is it as flexible is it is the system as flexible as it should be for our future needs no but we are so um we are no contract in a few years we're looking at well it depends on um what systems out there but we are looking at other proposals yeah right do you mean do you mean the actual system like my permits yeah okay okay please some people want to go and get their business and chips on holiday you know is this a long a rant comment i just want a question just in regards to those residents in the borough that this will affect more so than others so i'm thinking about those residents that are for instance living in areas in pilates south and next to hospitals that have no no parking throughout eight o'clock to ten o'clock at night if the impact assessment deal with those those residents also well because they they're not allowed to park you can't park in those areas between eight a.m to even not even with a visitor's permit well only a visitor's permit but they will constantly be paying the whole day yeah compared to those that are six o'clock it's eight eight thirty eight o'clock to six thirty around i think it's preach regent people p.r lane p.r lane right and that was put in because at the time the hospital didn't have any parking right and subsequently the hospital solved their parking issues but the but the parking restrictions has not been changed if you can businesses hold on hold on four to two yeah exactly that's what i'm going to make say stratford where you've got westfield you've got ten to two whereas in retreat just lane it's all day okay it's a carryover and it's not been changed could you take that away and have a look at it please so we will take it away yes yeah um just to summarize i think it's a really good good meeting a lot of a lot of debate not enough questions i'll say we'll do all that later you lot um what i've got in terms of actions and takeaways was we're going to do another consultation we're going to use co-create that's going to happen after may we are going to take away a look at the large vehicle charging regime you mean weight based weight based yeah um the eqia and i think points were made by the committee needs to be updated in a number of areas um especially to reflect the impact on families and there was a commitment to do that post may um um partly question was to highlight the cost to our own fleet of these charges there was a piece about um repair vehicles from housing associations for housing tenants maybe the housing association should be buying the visitor permits i'm not getting the resident to pony up for a visit for a limit and the last one was to review a sort of um outdated parking in in pitch regis lane i've got two more oh just keeping notes chair oh i've been bet i've been bested by the cabinet member about um you wanted to get some information from the climate people team about the um gas boilers yeah gas boilers road and then also to in for a written response to chantoo's question about resources and implications on air quality monitoring excellent i only missed two chair i'm not i can't be perfect all the time can i i'm gonna move on we're gonna move on no i'm gonna move on right we've got this here time um first of all can i thank michael um for logging in you can go and enjoy your holiday now cheers thank you michael bye-bye thank you very much for your time everyone bye and all the best sarah and john thank you for that session we're gonna do the next session now we could go down no i'm super glued your seats yeah there we go okay i'm gonna go to the next bit uh we've got no sustainable transport and major products and highways and how did you want do you want to give an overview politically and i think you guys want to i think you've got a very comprehensive report here um which i hope you enjoyed and read and i think that probably team will probably add a bit to that and just one probably may want to say something and just to echo that thank you for the papers you know often we don't say that enough a good set of papers lots of questions have been answered so continue to see and well done don't did you want to think uh yeah so uh sorry thank you for this it's just you said major projects next thing on the agenda is the sustainable transport yeah i said sustainable transport and then we've got major project i think what we'll do we'll sort of blend in work all right yes yep okay um one one of the things i found in this role is that uh success is rewarded um our communications with the mayor of london ntfl is that we've done so good in the roidox corridor in the world scheme that that has unlocked other sources of funding which are enabled us to progress with uh projects especially you must read my mind i had a question on the phasing and budget so really good point um how could you want to divvy up guys um and girls sorry we've got um two lots of like the charis is going to deal with the transport and as you said it will blend into two and all fairness and uh i'll deal with major projects and highways if that's okay oh charles thank you chair um my colleagues who helped me present on the low traffic neighborhoods as we could talk about the um transport strategy was uh generally developed to support the load uh the local plan review and also to help us prioritize uh council's actions to support uh more more transport the way this is structured uh for those that have read the sustainable strategy there are five objectives um that go with the strategy and um those five uh to do with the enabling sustainable housing and employment growth um to improve health outcomes for residents and visitors i think we all know that there is currently um um 30 minutes walking especially children to spend more walking activities and the third one is to deliver improvements to transport network uh tackle the climate emergency somebody mentioned about healthy school streets and others that come under that so um ensure that newham is an inclusive transport network and also to support measures to deliver a network of well-connected neighborhoods to improve access across the world of newham and in terms of our sustainable transport strategy it's well aligned with the um policies from the gla and tfo and particularly the mayor's transport strategy uh london environmental strategy healthy streets as well as and um and these um strategies they focus generally on creating a healthier more sustainable environment through active travel and improved air quality and um just to give like a a brief um um definition of what uh active travel travel is basically it's travel that involves physical activity cycling willing and scooting and when residents participate in these uh basically it results in uh healthier lifestyles uh traffic congestion and and um and um in terms of how our uh strategies embedded in our initiatives uh generally we use our sustainable transport strategy uh to draw up uh projects uh for a local implementation plan as well as the active and sustainable travel travel program so from sustainable uh transport strategy there are eight actions uh that were defined and uh those actions fall into active travel this is to do with enhancing cycling and walking infrastructure to encourage people to um encourage more people to choose walking and cycling and then the second one and then the second one is to do with the expansion of the cycle hire schemes to increase accessibility and convenience and also the third one is to do with public transport to improve the reliability and coverage of sustainable transport as well as um um to support the transition of our residents towards um electric vehicles and then also the sustainable uh we're talking about uh um talking of promoting car sharing schemes such as car clubs and the like and uh number six we're talking of safe transport uh network basically we implement measures to ensure that our network is safe and uh we also have behavior change um initiatives basically to support all the projects that we implement okay and then um so the eighth one is to develop strategies that reduce the environmental impact of freight and delivery vehicles or services and we have projects such as cargo bikes uh that go without sorry chat no no it's good okay yeah okay that's a good overview there so take some questions from the members um um and two and two and two one question simon one question carlin so i think now is probably under this agenda okay he has a comfortable strategy that aims to create and safety screen 50 schools are currently included in the hs hss program with the plan to extend to extend to more i think 10 schools uh i think by 26 okay so what obstacles are hindering in the healthy schools in each year what obstacles in the healthy schools program what obviously why we cannot expand schools more schools in categories in ages doing three at a time or just one at a time three three at a time so it's healthy school streets why can't we expand yeah simon thank you chair right um i think um i think i heard the word scooter but i'll leave that alone for the minute um the question is since we do um um said we're taking on the climate emergency what percentage increase in the borough have we of cycling and walking and should we be encouraging supplementary with it no no no managing scooters when i try i got you carline i have political questions sarah so um just thinking about the active travel and peace have we made how have we tied in with the other policies within the council and what we know around young people and the safety element around serious youth violence and being able to travel from one side of the borough to the next how has that impacted or added to this piece of work okay it's very good the act of travel but that doesn't meet everybody political overview and then we'll pass on okay so in terms of obstacles one of the things i found that i probably you might stick with it down yes so um in terms of obstacles one of the things i actually found was that uh healthy school streets in particular actually much more popular than i would have given them credit for yeah um and actually there's relatively few uh political obstacles or obstacles from uh visitors from residents the main one is actually more of a practical one and that's the design of the roads um so for example there's a a school in shrapford where the main gates are on the main road and we can't put a healthy school street there because buses i think it's the main father and the only way we can actually install a healthy school street if the school moves the exit to a side road and so actually our main target is that we would chances are we would fulfill our target of making sure every healthy school street that can be a healthy school street will become so by the end of the year but unfortunately not because of that not every school can be a healthy school street if that makes sense so can i just add to that because up until i think it was last year or the year before schools opted in no you had to you had to out they they opted into the pro they opted in now they have to opt out and they have to give a really considered reason as to why they are opting out and the other obstacle and i could say this is the number of schools who think that their teaching staff and it's always the teaching staff it's never the tas or anybody like that um think that they should somatically get a dispar a free pass and we have more arguments about that so one school i won't give the name wanted 60 60 parking permit things when their their car park only actually holds 30. it's our policy not to give yeah yeah and that is stacked no exemptions no special pleading no and make we can but certain like they have to really make the case so they have disability yeah yeah exactly is that written down yes yeah right because what we wouldn't want is special pleading no no no and great policy on it and hamster is very very clear on that and actually is supported by john and i to be even harder brilliant and simon's question i don't have the answer to him but i'm sure somebody does yeah simon's question i mean he kind of i kind of got confused there because he was asking two questions well let's let's say the question thank you thank you since we said we were a climate emergency that's what we're doing and we've got sustainable transport um stuff going into place over the last three or four years i'll bring up make that what census increase cycling have we that's happened how have we performed how have we performed which point to another problem so as i started it well as we declared pilot as a climate emergency power and we started looking probably 20 at least 2020 as a sustainable get more people cycling off on 2022 yeah percentage increase have we had do we have that not the increase thank you um we we can take back the uh the question on the increase since 2020 but we actually monitor the um the percentage of people people walking cycling and using public transport if you haven't got the answer fine just saying we've got it for this year we haven't got it for 2020. yeah if we can so it's a table you buy some it's the plastic table and what we'll do we stick it in the record good question um carly's question how do we overlay uh issues around youth on our current sustainable travel i think it's a that's a really complex question um and i think it involves not just the council it involves tfl um and it also is about perception sometimes as well um so depending on who you talk to when they want you to be able to use one youth site then you people can travel right across the borough but when it suits it doesn't so i i do think that there is something that that we as environment and sustainable transport need to work closer with community safety yeah and it's a one council approach because it's not it isn't just any one thing it's lighting it's if we look at lighting on housing estates except etc so it i think it's a bigger question than about sustainable transport because just to add to that and actually and i'm not to thank john you may remember i went on the walkabout with the um sarah bunnell's me and josh went on yeah talk about sarah bunnell have a school community safety group yeah and we went around strapped with them which was completely eye opening yeah right because the bus stop outside the prince eddie the one the girl said that's the dangerous bus stop like what are you talking about because that's where the men say uncomfortable things and we walked to the park and it was um but one of the things we identified was they wanted a form of healthy school street and john thank you that john was very good at getting the funding for them to um move their entrance and move the road around right so i think it's a two-way thing yeah every school has a community sort of group and maybe it's talking to them and involving schools in the consultation yeah maybe as simple as that i mean i do think that most secondary schools have it i think it's um and that's where people think that that's where the issue is i think it's actually in primary schools becoming more important in primary schools i appreciate what said however i don't want the essence of my question to be lost i know i'm talking specifically around youth safety yeah and youth serious youth violence and i'm talking about the overlay between our policies around that subject and this policy in regards to saying i think the answer we're moving to active travel it's got to be safe for all our young yeah no matter and i think that i do think that that is more it's not just the responsibility and it it actually means that we have to start working across the council for local planning yeah so the point wasn't lost carly and you think it was a considered response from sarah to take that away and so there's a lot there and yeah and i think it can be done i think it's involving writing out to schools could be helpful yeah and also there are small things that can be done as well next set of questions i've got sabia i've got nate and i've got helma um just a quick question around the impact assess assessment on this one as well in terms with um active travel have we consulted or have you spoken to people who are disproportionately impacted by this um be elderly young families and disabled with the active travel for example or some other protective characteristic i don't know if you remember in newham people there was a time when women muslim women got attacked with acid outside the bus stop um it's not only about dark places i was punched outside plaster station nine in the morning for wearing a jab so in terms of it i know we should all be part of an active travel but because of certain protective characteristic we are also targeted so in this um did we speak to people like myself people with protective characteristics elderly people who are disabled who might not able to travel might not have a disability badge have we spoken to them as well and some yeah thank you um as part of as part of developing our sustainable transport strategy and also when we're doing our leap strategy we actually did an equality impact assessment and also taken in took into consideration feedback that we receive from different organizations and people groups um uh that we talk to across newham yeah i was conscious supplementary that i think the question is more we know you do but i think the question is more you how um so what groups do you talk to do you talk to you know there's an in the earlier session we spoke about the co-create groups do you speak to them do you speak the co-production co-production um group do you speak to the groups yeah or the question is could you be better at speaking to those groups we could all be better at it i think it's fair to say yeah we could be better when we did this um i think there was a country member the name of organizations who spoke to is it access for all transport transport for all basically that's an organization that represents different uh different is that social is that london or is it new and based uh we we basically spoke to them regarding um right yeah regarding new in terms of the different people groups so they have um contact with the different organizations and they would collect feedback for us okay right i'm going to be i was going to say that if you if you went back in the annals of time um and carlene or remember val phone from access new access for rights for disabled people well yes yes so i mean we would actively engage with that group and you know we would i would still say as this place been valve before i go into a cafe but you know we we don't have that level of engagement those groups don't exist anymore yeah um but i do think i mean we could always be better at consultation yeah and also it it links back to the question carlin was asking you know if you wrote out to the schools obviously you've got them and you'll get their nuanced views as a very thing um nate thanks chat i want to talk about the rollout of the 20 mile per hour program which i which i strongly support um about how effective it's been so um i i know it's not our enough power to reinforce um but i see boundary roads on strata play street and country nose lane for the forest but there are signs at the boundary um and i'm looking in this document i don't see any measurement about the impact on speeds like are we actually seeing everything and just because it's not all enough power to which you find that doesn't mean it's not in our power to build cameras for example so the question is how do you monitor the introduction of 29 we monitor but also not just monitor there are things people do to improve compliance even though you don't have enforcement power let's ask the question yeah we we actually have a program to carry out surveys across all of our network to measure compliance yeah and that says it in the right we don't need the outcome date yeah yeah we just concluded the 20 mile per hour rollout in december so basically we're in the initial stages of that draw out and we'll be able to talk and feedback if you cause every progress so what's been going on for a while now we don't have any numbers but so far is that what you're saying that's been going for that long we've been going on i think close to two years now no no the rollout has been going on for about yeah we only finished a few months ago in december 30 phases the the north so it has been in phases but we would start monitoring off because you didn't have any monitoring on the rollout of the first phase on the on compliance i don't believe so no okay okay jamie one of the really important things will be the impact on the killed and seriously injured figures but i'd be the killed and seriously injured figures would be the thing we will be looking at most killed and injured figures for road collisions we'd expect to see those improve significant in 21 hour that that would be our key measurement and you know that we we would expect to see um less killed and seriously killed and seriously injured as a result of 21 i mentioned hold on a minute hold on so the question was how do we matter the question was put how do you measure the effectiveness for the 20 mile hour zone council higgins is saying do effectively put cameras up and measure it but you're saying the true test is is the killed and right that's that would be our main benefit yeah basically that's a you know very a very strong driver for us those figures will take quite a while to come through because they're created by tfl but we would expect to see an improvement okay just a question there if it's monitored by the metropolitan police is it not metropolitan police cameras should be monitoring 20 mile an hour rather than i think that's council higgins is saying the council should be the police and tfl have the enforcement powers like us to to enforce the 20 miles an hour with there's certain things within our control in certain locations we can we can have physical measures such as curb build outs speed cushions to actually physically slow the traffic and we're not getting enough compliance the other thing we can also do in certain locations this community speed watch yeah okay i'm aware of these things but i i asked about the boundary buttons so i'm just aware of two where there aren't signs so structured high street where you come into the borough and on temple mills lane where you come in from walking forest where the speed limit changes there's no um sign indicating a changes okay so an action right okay let's move to action rather than a debate but the action is okay is you look at those precise signage on the boundary road to the borough which is barking and hackney number one increase image i think the other point is um and it was point that jamie made perhaps there needs to be a small in future documents going forward a short paragraph clearly stating if you know the police monitor the police it does say that in the document i know what what is it you're asking then what i'm saying is it doesn't matter if we don't get the money from the finer if we can't enforce the fine we can still work with partners and for example it helps bring down speeding uh to build speed cameras i know that other boroughs are considering doing this like is this something that we that we have considered or is it just a no because it's not our power have we considered working with question is have we considered working with neighboring boroughs to improve our partners with the partners police and tfl yeah or are they for them to provide us with funding but what what matters is whether if people are going to speed yeah going to be caught clearly that is not properly enforced in this country i think that that's clear um there is an argument between the local authorities and the police about like well we can't enforce it so we're not building cameras but we're we we're still responsible for residents when residents get hit by speeding traffic i'm not that concerned by who gets the money when there's a fine i'm concerned about whether there's a camera john and chat as as far as i know there are very few speeding cameras okay i don't think speeding has stopped hasn't stopped hold on hold on hold on the point has been made number of time i think we have to move to a conclusion right john sarah and martin i think one to come concluding remarks yeah but jamie would know the specific technical laws behind it but uh the conversations i had with my peers on london tech is that actually the main emphasis is that we're talking to government about taking over those enforcement powers and actually the commissioner of the london met traditionally has been against that this current commissioner is actually is indicated that he's open to it so there's actually some movement of us actually taking our enforcement of it in terms of the technical i i think even if we had cameras i'm not sure we can actually pass that evidence onto london met police unless it's a london met police camera i mean that that's correct yeah we can work with um transport for london on known sites and sites that concern us and we'd say to them you know we've got x number of resident complaints or concerns or we've had this number of actual collisions therefore can you consider working with the police camera um as council wants has said there is an idea about local authority having the power to almost decriminalize it in the same way that parking was decriminalized would require an act of parliament so something that would take a long time um but there is perhaps an argument if the police haven't got adequate resources to enforce the speed limits particularly 20 miles an hour through the borough that it's something that maybe local should be given the powers to do because we did didn't we jamie um albert way near dockside that was a racing ground and we and so we enforced we signs there that doesn't and that kicks in about 11 o'clock at night or hoppers to our entry yeah which is basically cars can't go up there at all so martha did you want to come in um just say uh cameras is the only way to uh increase uh compliance student rights per hour and as charles mentioned we are we have a plan to uh run a survey border white i think that is going to actually uh give us the information that we need in order to say what we should do next so how much speed in which location and so on we're also running so yeah we want to run a campaign yeah um for 20 miles per hour border wide uh so there are different ways if trial schemes reduction of courage weight that's another way of reducing speeding there are many ways uh but again i think a survey would be if we will be able to highlight or else they have their issue where we haven't achieved compliance and what so what i'm hearing is it's a met police responsibility to enforce on the speeding there's things we can do it's about working on and getting them to themselves and it's about monitoring the door and serious accidents john has mentioned there are some road design issues we can do maybe it's about pulling these things together in a short note saying what our responsibilities are what we are to say legally reliable to do and what we can do by influence and pressure of our partners and mentioned what martin all the future things we're doing in the future because i think when we've got the compliance data that we've told that we don't have yet right um so i like can that come back to us yes and i think obviously if we were to like i think what it is there's a lot of elements there if we brought them together with the data that we can see there's a sort of policy there on a policy emerging and the data will tell us what to do and that's a fair and where we are um right so i've got then i've got and two then i got carly i think what we need with the 20 miles per hour is more like violence enforcement so for example healthy school street there's a lot of specifically about the impact has been very good reduction traffic and everything and excellent feedback and um that's really great but with the 20 miles per hour i can see that there's a lot of community engagement there's some consultation surveys dropping but there's no information on any feedback haven't gotten any feedback from us because we actually need their buy-in for this work i mean it's like comparing apples and pears isn't it because healthy school streets there is no traffic you know do you mean if you if you live in a healthy school street you can come in and out but there's no through traffic and there's very few of our roads where there are schools where you could get over 20 miles an hour i think that because we haven't yet i mean our biggest impact impact i'm seeing whether 20 mile per hour works is as jamie said it's about deaths and accidents and that may be you know a really harsh thing but actually they are what that's one of our kpis is to see a reduction um i mean should go down to zero i can't imagine it would but you know so they will be but actually the majority of people i think if you want if you if you want to do 20 miles an hour you'll comply but there are i mean you've only got we haven't got to go very far you've only got to go outside the gate here where they see racing down the barking road um and i i think that it will take us a little while to get any hard data it's easy for healthy school streets because they're there and you have to comply you don't have a choice um you know asking more about not necessarily about compliance and monsters but more about feedback so for example what do they think about to master our own barking road like well they don't like it yeah but once you know hold on yeah all right we need to meet it's got to be an action so could we not put it in the resident survey yeah we could is there a question in the residence which is what martine was on about exactly so we can do it in the resident survey senti hi it was my main question now it's coming as a supplementary after telma we understand that 20 miles speed limit policies effective and preventing accident in residential areas how realistic is that is this why this policy has been applied to main road like a barking road may it be more challenging to enforce the speed limit potentially leading to more issues john so um i know because i've got some complaints about it the met police do have some cameras on barking road and uh i know actually enforcing at least part of it um uh oh i'm sorry i i was going to answer the other part of your question so would you mind repeating it for me i'm just saying because what i would say is that um jamie and the team showed me a map of where the main injuries and deaths were and actually a lot of them were on the main road so green street by the bowling pub for example is one of the hot spots so actually we do have to enforce it on the main road as well because that's where uh injuries are but what i would also say is that another benefit of um another benefit of 20 mile an hour is actually improves traffic flow um sorry john it was my question i said it doesn't shouldn't apply like a road like a barking road i understand you can apply this policy on the residential area but you don't think it should apply on the main roads it shouldn't but i'm answering your question councillor i am i'm confused are you saying a 20 mile an hour limit should not apply on main roads a roads like the bargain road well it would cause is it yes or no are you yes i believe it will cause even more issues you said it shouldn't apply no no i'm not okay i think that's a comment all right on the stated policy of the council oh that one guys yeah the stated policy of the council is 20 mile an hour i actually can answer her good question so to go back to the other issues that as i mentioned one of the main hotspots for injuries and deaths are areas and junctions in in the main road so if we want to secure that metric and decrease the amount of injuries and deaths and fatalities due to injuries we have to we have to include the main roads well i would also say is that another benefit of 20 miles an hour which isn't um advertised as much is that strangely enough by slowing down traffic flow slowing down traffic you actually improve traffic flow so you get less traffic jams and actually more often than not people get to their journeys much more quicker it sounds counter intuitive i know but there is evidence okay now the last question on this section carlene's thank you and we'll move on to the major projects and highway section so the last question on this section carlene is you thank you chair um just going back to um what nate was saying in regards to 20 miles per hour and so on and so forth and i kind of understand where he's coming from so without him saying it what he's actually saying is there are neighboring boroughs like hackney and islington that have oh i i are you bringing all right no no not them one are we opening up no no that have cameras so everyone that knows that drives those as soon as they they drive into hackney you're at 20 miles per hour and you get a ticket if you're at 21 or 22 miles per hour that's what he's saying so i guess the the reality is what he's specifically talking about is those is those a roads like the a12 that people coming off of and at speed are coming into for instance olympic park which is what he where the ward in which he covers at high speeds is there something that can be done about that we all know by reducing speed let's be realistic in the room you can't really drive around this bar at more than 20 miles per hour anyway because there is so much traffic unless you're driving at night answer it in the proof of thing because we resolve to go back and write down the policy as to what we do what we can do more and using the data from the survey which martina and nate can i can i just go back to slightly what my point is we can ask residents what they think about 20 miles per hour we can look and see but if we don't have the tools in which to monitor okay the reality is is actually is there a possibility for cabinet to think about how we petition whoever it is that we have to petition about getting more cameras in pacific areas of the borough in order for you to have the tools to measure because reality says and jamie said something earlier on the way in which the the reality of this is that we will only see it via deaths on our street yeah i remember having a conversation with jamie about the incident that happened on in beckton right where a young man died coming off the road the reality is is we don't want that to happen if it was my child if it was your family member that would be not enough so my question is is what can we do as a council to implement those cameras that are being requested that happen elsewhere so we can actually monitor what it is that's being asked thank you chair um just to answer the camera question specifically i think ben probably would have been more better placed um coming from hackney now craig i know but um i spoke to him about this last week um the the cameras that you're referring to in hackney are on tfl run roads they're red roots they're tlrns which is why they're air um because they've had the power to install those obviously we don't have that power here um which is fundamentally difference between one in the previous question a really good thing i think it needs to be notified right because the reason why there's cameras thank you cfl has provided to manage that network on their roads right so the question is there's two things on the tfl boundary road what happens and on the newham road what happens what we can do i think what we need is a clear statement of policy because i was not aware of that situation that's quite a key piece i think in order to go forward we need it codified so on a tearful road on the boundaries the reason why they've got cameras and in when i go to lee bridge road i get ticketed there so maybe that's a tearful road right maybe that's the reason why so let's put that down in when would that that will come back to us at some point um just new work program it's a new work program so we know that down in the new work program i was going to ask so right and we it'll come up in the next bit because it'll be infrastructure highways at what and high and highways and highways because one of the biggest issues that's not in doing the changes to romford road yeah it's the fact that there'll be bus lanes which will have cameras yes of course they're not interested in the bus lanes it's the fact that they won't be able to park their cars in the bus lanes because there'll be cameras so it's about working within those as well right john very quickly john and jamie nothing right very quickly scrutiny actually had looked into this before so when i first was appointed to the executive around may june 2023 uh crime and antisocial behavior scrutiny looked at road safety that's where i learned a lot so i would advise scrutiny committee members to look at those past reports where they actually talk about police powers and what room council can then cannot um can we send it as an access to the committee aaron and set a minute within becton road is a i think that useful discussion i think codify what the situation is future and within that what happens on the tier four roads what happens on our roads and the other like a little glossary type things yeah and also what's the art of the possible so in those new there may be roads which are a bit problematic if we were to put 10 cameras how much would that cost it becomes a proposal budget bid and that goes into the sausage if it's not necessarily how much it would cost her is actually what do we do with that information absolutely right but i think let's put that on a policy point for old maize good debate um okay nate did you want to make a final comment on this area that's just saying of the transport policy here that has targets and we haven't really talked to school about the targets and the delivery against the time we spent a lot of time on cameras didn't think we'll move on yeah okay just on the other the targets it's um just a brief question nate i want some delivery so electric vehicle charging i had that three thousand days by country 30 you know you have to bring it in good now so that's more than doubling the curve every year it's free now next year oh yeah okay so that target that three thousand by next year okay i want to close this bit down from what all right hold on hold on hold on i'm going to move on have a session to do and we've got 20 minutes i'm going to move no no people dying i'm going to move on i'm going to move on i'm going to move on why don't you write it down it's not a question could you adjust it to the opposite we've got 20 minutes left rather than half an hour the constitution nine o'clock 9 30 on the constitution i've just read it okay what is the question you want to answer the it says zero casualties killed or seriously injured by 2041. nothing in here about how likely we are to hit division zero what what's our progression you take with that sorry um that's a question that you can jump back within answer lovely and one question for me on ltns this section right baumoral road ltn when is it coming we don't know sorry no you don't know we don't know oh um one of the things that we want to do is we made a series of changes to the ltn design which we need to take back into consultation so this is the same consultation that we did in west town unfortunately that consultation costs as much or a little bit more actually than it costs to actually deliver the scheme itself um we went to tfl to see if they can get funding to deliver that consultation as part of the wider scheme and they said no and we're now looking into the carbon offset fund uh the feasibility and the consultation to deliver the scheme um okay but you want to do it it's extra for money how much extra so um these are figures like yeah yeah yeah yeah so my understanding of the summer oh chance at one meeting please i mean i can actually hear you from here whisper um it costs like 120 a little bit more um to deliver an ltn uh the west time ltn probably cost roughly the same maybe a little bit more um i think 150 000 uh ltn average what was that sorry uh for an ltn average there how much does it cost what did you consultation 250 that's for the turn but for the possibility studies traffic monitoring air quality engagement and um into an experimental so we approved the ltn yeah budget approved it was in feasibility it was never no i'm all i thought no i went out to consultation but it was never approved we went up to consultation then it came back it came back and it was paused while we made some changes and now two and then and then we were hoping that tfl would fund it but they haven't so we're now going to the carbon offset fund which is apparently like no i wouldn't say rolling money if we don't get the money from the carbon it will we will have to pause it until we have got the money wow okay and there was a petition to full council recently yeah have we gone back and written to the red yeah yeah yeah what do you mean the from balmoral for the yeah jesse yeah yeah yeah yeah but formally we've gone back and oh yes yeah and john has met her and claire met her as well so and i think the mayor met them i don't know but i think she was going to or she's offered to a lot of changes right um if you think about it it's about the people power for knocking doors leaflets it's i mean it's not cheap yeah so that's a big area so when i mentioned west hamilton being a gold standard of consultation i i wasn't ever like i've asked colleagues or colleagues in other boroughs about it and told them about the results the fact that we actually engage with people equivalent to half the had conversations with people equivalent to half the turn out of the local election we sleep at every door that's the gold standard in consultation but that doesn't come cheap okay just a question uh i think it's about five thousand that came back to you yeah okay it's also then of course okay what also had to bear in mind the level of vandalism okay two things there on the consultation roughly how many were for it and how many were against it well i think i'm right in saying and i may be wrong but a large percentage of the people who signed the petition we are we talking about the original petition yeah the original consultation of balmore road well that was um i think quite a considerable number but those who were against it we were not able to even verify that they lived in newham or actually were existing and one of the adding questions at the last meeting on air quality what came up we asked for an impact assessment of i think the goal of the borough is eight percent of the borough 88 in my head 80 80 of the borough is ltn right there is no impact assessment whatsoever we could find on that bearing in mind a very interesting example on one ltn a few changes because of a quarter million pounds we are no the changes aren't of course the work around that the whole package of the consultation except everything a few changes and the consultation caught many quick but if we're going to eighty percent of the borough yeah yeah that is not only is the financial implication the resident implication and there's a road movement implication on the borough but there is that there is something called aspirational well i'm dealing i'm dealing out of realism because if i said no so could you my question is could you link up with your air quality colleagues they took it away back to us to provide that piece of work but okay it down to you guys to produce that right because we are concerned as a committee 80 of the borough in the ltn has a massive shift and change the boundary implications which i don't think have been flagged within the borough at all it doesn't appear on the borough's risk register so you're you're committing us to future capital future risk but you're not telling the organization you've captured that risk sorry just uh you i think it's in the actual presentation the majority i think most of all the schemes are externally funded so tfl are replaced fine that's one part but if a bit of the borough is ltn the traffic movements are different right and that has an impact and i'm not sure whether the new local authority has captured that impact and look at the risk and the implications of that so really what i'm saying can you link up with your air quality colleagues who took it away to talk to you guys so i'm asking you to go back and talk to them so you join up in the middle is that fair enough when you say 80 percent are you talking about that's the there's the paperwork talks to 80 sorry in the yeah the aspiration yeah aspiration yeah but we're coming at 44 44 that's correct yes the point of clarity um john i know you refer a lot to west ham um lcn but from my understanding and we've had several conversation about this most of the residents opposed to it and we had a petition at full council constantly get bombarded with email even though i'm not in the bar but i think the understanding is the residents who live in the area are against and i did remember i do remember asking a question that was there any death or anything else that led to the ltn but um i know we have funny there on a temporary basis i know patients you know i mean so out of the residents within the area probably west ham one the west ham one was more socially supportive okay they were against it well they weren't on the consultation we can't have it both ways it can't be binary so can we right right to the committee with the results of the consultation on palm moral and west ham and that i'll just close you forget about their moral because it's a stand but west ham can we have consultable grange in this you can shake your head all you like the consultation show and to your team and to patiently waited i send us to you hold on you to take it outside we even have pretty gentle then for life saying that shops there are no sure yeah just i'm wondering because that's quite conflict are you on the next day i think you're going to next agenda that's why what would you like what would you like to do where are you don't ask that that's fine i think you are not here because still we are there well i want to glide onto what glide onto major projects and highways i'm gonna glide onto major projects and highways is that okay right we're going to move on to major projects and highways thank you charles thank you charles yeah thank you charles thank you much would you like the first question i haven't even had the presentation yet i don't need a presentation i'm lost in the forest hold on one and two yes it's stated from the pack right i'm losing this so i'm going to make the presentation on or introduce tomorrow some remarks on major projects and highways you've been sharing going to bring us back to a long time i won't want you all the slides i just really just give you a heads up of what we're trying to achieve really our major projects um we've got aspirations to deliver a whole vast range of major projects across the board and we're currently delivering 11 and if you look at the first slide there and that's it's got a little small map it's probably very small for you see you've got it in color they should be color coded and we're trying to deliver at this moment in time where we've got funding in place and corporate governance in place and improvement from cabinet and council and and from our key stakeholders and being through the process of uh public consultation stakeholder consultation all these impact assessment and we'll say as well for all these schemes and they've all been signed off and we're in the process of delivering dollars and now the stages that we're in delivery will vary across those schemes some of them will be literally just at the concept stage where we're just starting out and some of them as uh council morris saluted to earlier on uh rodox corridor and ruff are nearing the middle and the end of their delivery stage effectively and we've got another uh four or five schemes that uh we have classed as major projects which we're looking to deliver in future years and they're in the pipeline at the moment we're discussing with um our stakeholders and whether that be external or internal because we have some funding that we'll take from internal as well through section 106 and and through the carbon offset fund and we'd be looking to try and take those forward for delivery and packaging up some funding to take those forward into the design stages decent stages and delivery at a later date much down the line and i suppose just to give you an idea of the reasons we're putting in these major projects the majority of them is obviously to tie into the sustainable transport strategy and it ties into some of the discussions around the 20 mile an hour and martina alluded to earlier on by narrowing a carriageway down to something that doesn't look like a motorway generally bring down speeds if you bring down speeds you bring down accidents and it's a it's a way of enforcing that 20 mile an hour that we've talked about as well um with that extra space on the carriageway what we're looking for is increase our street green and tree canopy coverage so we can introduce some shaded areas for people as they work through the borough also help bring down um post the the actual temperatures in those areas as well in some of those hot spots and the majority of our infrastructure is black tarmac and it takes heat and it lets out that heat throughout the day if we have more street trees the the um the carriageway will actually heat up less and it will go off less heat and it's a better environment um for a local provincial area and obviously one of the other key of course is um moving some of that carriageway space that is no longer necessarily needed in some of our roads that were designed for industrial areas and and moving it towards green space and also cycle track so we've got a lot of cycle facilities that we're putting in in to help and move people who want to use pedals or whatever they would know whatever we want to call them i'm not going to mention and it's not just cyclists they're multi-use people can use them um for tracks but that's just to give you a flavor of what it is they do cost quite a lot of money majority of them are actually funded from external um let's say external funding i will say that because we have invested in our infrastructure the likes of keeping them moving over the years we've shown to external funding authorities that we can actually deliver we can deliver to program and to and because we've been able to do that on our major projects over the last eight or nine years we're very successful in getting money in the door for our residents and spending the money as wisely as possibly as we can and i think the only real thing to say is i mean it's one of the things that was on one of the chloe's uh was what are our challenges with regards to spending and generally the challenge is this is our revenue budget to maintain all this great infrastructure we're putting out there and that is a challenge and we are changing that and how we look at it and we're working with other departments in the council about putting in it's for growth bids for our revenue streams and that's something as we deliver all these great infrastructure products we are going to have to look at further down the line in future years what we spend on our revenue just to take the 20 mile an hour alone we put in i'm going to pick up a number because i don't really know the world part i think it's about eight or nine thousand 20 mile an hour roundels so to replace those in future years in about four or five years we'll probably double the white lining budget that we use on a yearly basis that's just to give you an idea we're putting we're doing great work we're bringing loads of money in and we're helping our residents but we do need to consider our revenue spend in future years yeah and just before i bring in the other the only got carlene mate and be shanty first i don't i don't let me write this down and two right hold on cheers privilege this struck me there's some really good work here in the notes but we don't advertise it to residents a lot of money being spent here on residents behalf but we don't the resident right when i say comms what i don't mean is just long you know eight page long newsletters which no one reads perhaps street boards focus boards schools let me say try something different because a lot of work done improvements i don't think you i don't think the council getting credit no point doing something if you don't get no one knows and people walk past things and you go why am i wrong then dug up and you get the account so i get it distracted when i tell them what's coming they go oh i didn't know that please when i say comms i don't a really dry email from the council communication process right and the second one for when i let you come back paul you mentioned budget something i i got in the note in the it gives um and then it gives a feel but we're going to pause projects for budget but we don't say we're going to cancel right and i think i'll be much more secure and happy brave enough to say because of our budget council this project and i think motivation the project in here should be categorized on priority if we don't get any money these projects go because at the moment it's all a bit we're going to do it but we're going to top slice are we going to slow down it doesn't feel right and i think a bit more realistic if that's that situation so really what i'm asking for is more communication to tell people what's going on a little bit more realism budgeted impacts on what projects will go if we don't get my overall comments on that i'm going to bring in the councillors and i've got chantu yes i've got carly i've got nate and i've got simon how do you do you want to do it in phrase yeah that would be good manage your own rules in threes all right come on page number 44 we live in a diverse era we have everyone cycles due to hidden barriers so why is the past priority budget is only 0.26 million why the budget is low for prosperity well that's not that's us that's not us but still we are responsible as well well well i mean we we we get it from local implementation plans look funding for bus priority routes but we don't decide how much we get that comes from tfl but as a cabinet member you you could suggest them because we need more i mean we always are we always are ambitious but ultimately they decide what priority what schemes they want to fund and prioritize and don't forget where john may be on the cabinet but he's one of 33 things so it like he it's a decision that newham makes promise we campaign we campaign endlessly for things yeah but can't always if tfl gives us the money i i i do it every single scheme i love buses i really do okay i'm just i'm gonna bring in i know you might not be satisfied with the answer but it's the truth yeah it's not our choice right i'm gonna bring in i just want to in support you may have noticed scum for you've got a few problems at the moment right overnight even a week that's a few billion pounds the government's got to find right it does have an impact shantu those things over here on the team does impact yeah he goes through his meeting he doesn't get his money it's we have to look at things in the round now we turn on our tv when they've got a problem on the government it's our problem right so right it's also chair if i might you know it isn't for the want of us trying because actually we we raise this all the time yeah and if we got more money then we would do it but tfl their budget you know martina and paul uh the table refer to a small project so they also found that vast priority on major projects uh next year is going to be money for major projects such as rumford road high street strafford parking road so there's much more than that 0.26 that's a and that's not a major project that was last year's that's what we received last year so as martina said the budget we're expecting for this year from transport for london is much more than that okay shantu shantu we were going to do it in freeze now because you've gone back we've done it once right so all right carly thank you chair it is paul isn't it yeah you don't know who paul is my god thank god where have you been you took the words out of my mouth earlier when you you talked about the brilliant work that's happening if we look in our slides actually all the all the projects that are detailed one to eleven and then twelve to sixteen are all actually well deserved areas that need investment because they have been under invested for a long time however what i was concerned about is and my question i wrote down is how we're going to deliver that's great but how are we going to maintain and how we're going to afford to maintain these wonderful projects and the things that have happened prior and why and i guess my question to you would be in the in the process of bidding putting the bids in for these pieces of work why are we not thinking about the ongoing costs and securing the budget at that moment for the ongoing cost so i was thinking about trees jamie knows i've got an issue with trees um especially on the barking road on my side of of of my my ward is there are beautiful trees along the barking road that have never been looked after and they're now are destroying the pavements in which people are supposed to walk some parts of those those roads can't even push a buggy down or push a wheelchair down so i i wonder you know i'm listening to you say about these the tree coverage and what that would look like and what benefits that has to the tarmac but what i want to understand is who's looking after that in a hundred years from now but the people sitting here and they say well that scrutiny panel actually asked the right questions cool and so the first part um was with regards to growth bids yes we are putting growth bids internally to try and release more revenue funding from the council fund actually to help maintain that and with regards to the trees and we've just passed um true cabinet last week um our capital program for this year that we're in now and 200 i think it's 273 000 as part of that will help tackle some of those issues with trees and we do we are fully aware that we haven't been maintaining the tree stock for a number of years um so the idea would be going in if the trees need to come out or we need to do work around the trees that fund will help tackle that and we look to manage that and put that in place every year going forward and one of the things we're doing in our new schemes though is those trees were planted where you dig a hole in the ground you put a tree in the ground you leave it you walk away and it looks lovely and what we're doing now effectively when you plant the tree in the ground there's a whole system that goes in the ground it's not just a tree that goes in the infrastructure in the ground is there to try and protect the asset for future years years okay we don't have the damage that we see on our road brilliant just add to that um you also pay for a couple of years on maintenance of that planting or tree that we planted okay i was gonna so we've got capital and revenue so when we obtain the capital funding it will only last for the life of the project we can't extend the life of the project into revenue so the likes of tfl won't give us revenue we need to maintain that chair i have a supplement to a cabinet member no no i was just going to say one of the the things that we need to try and figure out is how we can use more of the parking income on our projects it's probably very controversial but actually you know when we're raising money through parking that can't you just use it no apparently not uh i think you can we can if if it hasn't been stolen to do something i think if it's in the house in the you can no over over 12 million before parking goes on freedom passes and i i'm not i know everybody else probably knew that but i didn't know that i thought that tfl paid for freedom passes so our freedom passes for all these older people who've got these little twirlies and stuff like that it's nearly 13 million it costs us as a local authority don do you want to just one more then um i didn't know about freedom passes until i was on tech and then the councils had to reapprove it through tfl but one of the scariest things i've seen was a growth chart i can't remember the figures over the top of my head but we're talking about increasing millions year by year by year in terms of growth of freedom passes and part and the pr way pays for that but as with temporary accommodation they can see that the growth up outpaces the very need that we get my supplementary is going to be this and i'm going to tailor it slightly different now on the back of what you just said we all know what we know yeah we all know that as a society we're living longer yeah so that means that more people are going to need a freedom pass right um i don't know whether or not at that point i'd be able to get a freedom pass because maybe the money would have run out by then but anyway my so why are we not thinking about this why are we when i'm listening to what's been said today in this meeting there's a strategy for this there's a policy for that are we overlaying all of these policies i see one of the one one of the projects on here is project 10 e elv charge points ongoing which is i think something you referred to earlier but then i think about the parking paper and talking about this this view about charging more for ev cars are we overlaying that's the way that's something that we haven't done is that haven't but it's a place comes up my question is is are we overlaying these policies these strategies that we have the future needs of the borough what's come before and lessons learned in order to ensure that when we're going forward one we've got the right amount of money into in the in the in our coffers and two that actually we're forward thinking because and a little time from now things can look very different right and that's the seriousness of it is i just wonder how are we future proofing a lot of this work because this actually this this infrastructure projects for this borough is something that we need that could be easily scrapped and just before you are just that i totally agree with carly's question it links back something i said to paul in terms of the budget implication does feel like you'll be doing less in cutting to get the things right so they get all joined up because i do think you haven't scenario checked the future budget i think which goes back to the point i made that if we were able to to spend more of the is it prs john then actually we probably wouldn't have a problem but i do think that carlene's right it's very easy one of the things i always think of and we thought about that when we were doing children's we have to put in place something that can't be un that can't be unravelled because how easy it would be to just to change all right and and that's so the money that we're using at the moment is something from the keep new and moving fund from rubbing wells else but that we've come to the end of that now i think have we not thought we have this is the last year last year of it question why can't we use the parking money i don't know it's physically stopping you from dipping your hands into that pot and using them well what is stopping you uh there's a local conrad hall right so it's an internal issue yeah but we can spend the money yeah we could so we can spend the money it's our money with our section 151 and we could get a picture of pot and take the money and put it over here and i simplified it all yeah martina you say no job so question so a lot of these measures are seen within the prison of climate point that i often make and and chancellor wilson's also on top of this is that um there's also a public health factor here as well um so a good example is those trees they also called out the environment and give you a a level of protection from the sun and one of the things that we're seeing from climate change it's a extreme heat which impacts the elderly but another factor is that how you how healthy you are in your 20s and 30s would in a huge way impact how healthy you are in your 70s and 80s yeah so by encouraging more active travel more walkability that that public that health impact that has at a young age will impact you at a later age as well brilliant thank you sure can i just ask one more one just just for your actual benefit so just paul you talked about a paper that came to cabinet just recently i guess something that kind of just dinged in my own head was why are we not seeing that paper first in this space so that we can actually start having those robust conversations around in pre-screaching yeah i just think that there's the paper really important work that's going on here but i feel like we're missing it so the action there is a cabinet member could strictly have sight of the paper we can give you back in four more comments and in going forward yeah going forward yeah going forward yeah and also because with the parking charging i think the point was making the parking charges um bit of the meeting we could have been part of that consultation yeah i think you know we we're here constructed they saved us an hour yeah sure um first day i just want to say thank you for the people that were still there on the project it's like genuinely speak up mate coming uh the westfield avenue projects like genuinely trying to never been built like that in the first place there are some other roads you need also should never have been built like that it's a scandal that in this like not that long ago we built these roads and we now haven't paid to fix them so i wanted to ask about these first connections project um this is a project that i was talking to the ben commissioner at the lrdc for 2022 we're not talking about commencing it till 2027 with the transition of applying powers from lrdc we now i believe we've received some of that um some of the developer contributions still in such 106 that lrdc was holding has it been looked at whether that money can be used to bring forward these village connections sooner because that's that's like penny buck street where there was a cyclist killed by a bus not that not that long ago because of a lack of so seeing like 2027 for project that i was talking to the commissioner about in 2022 is really frustrating so i'm just wondering whether that can be brought forward maybe it's something we need to talk to our planning colleagues about because my understanding and it could be quite different from yours depending on the source of information is that uh the lrdc has spent or is planning on spending most of the sill before it ever gets to new it that that's my understanding and if you've heard i'll be quite interested because actually uh lrdc seal has been something i've been really looking at the enviously as is the route planning department but my understanding is that they were planning on spending it a chance to get a chance to touch it yeah but are we just sort of looking at that and going 20 27 that's when we'll do it while we're constantly looking at other avenues to bring that forward for the long five years between one of the project is so you've got when we actually didn't know it's so long one so one of the things you noticed russfield avenue is a good example of this so that's been it funded by the lrdc what i would also say and and this is my own personal point is one of the criticisms that i've heard is that certain areas of the borough are receiving more investment in these than other parts of the borough so a good example is the rumford road scheme so the arc of corridor you've got the voidox corridor the rumford road and the works that we're doing in shaft of olympic park if there is funding available what i would like to see is other parts of the borough that have not seen that investment see that investment in the future so for example green street east and there's very limited works i think there is a social justice argument there but if we are going to invest with our own money or with externally funded sources that are not paid for by the lrdc that the social just for fairness don't we should talk to something else i do also have to think about where where is dangerous and where are people being killed yeah so it's green tree and on strapped reply street junction with carpenters but like we have to be responsive to where john has given a commitment to look at that and if you've got any information you can just on the green street green street is the fourth biggest jury quarter in the country yep i think it deserves a little bit of love i'll see pension and care i think it deserves to be a um pedestrian item we have discussed that before yeah i joke no i don't mean the whole of green street yeah but there was that we have talked about actually looking at green street as a as a whatever district and actually pedestrianizing part of it so like we've got east ham high street that no one goes to anywhere because there's nothing to buy there that is pedestrian i think we've got happened to green street right i don't agree street is the fourth biggest jury quarter in the country yeah yeah it's like the less of it needs but there's no plan there's no amazing there is in in the in the in here no because it's not about us 300 000 pounds worth of jewelry this is about this thing that would come on that would be a plan of how we're going to look at green street and then we'll talk to us about it but could it's possible it could as an action be but i think that i think i think you'll find that talks are happening in the regeneration and inclusive economy part of account but it doesn't exist as a road project so it's not you know because there's no account right there's no point in us having a road project if they haven't made up their minds what they want to do great okay you can have as many road projects as you like all right chair can i answer counselor east village connect and you're right we are working with developers one of the reasons why some of the scheme has stopped is because we've had developers come in and they're actually going to build some of that scheme so on pennybrook street the developers are actually going to 278 and do the sides on the north and south so that will actually happen but that'll happen you know does i think there's ever crossing that it does yeah it does yeah oh and do you know when uh it'll be when they're effectively it'll be as part of their 278 agreement so i would have expected it's close to before they complete the works on the building so it's simple okay um but some of the other areas around the east village connections same again there's discussions with aware discussions with ledc with regards to planning and but one of the developers have actually pulled out so where we were hoping they would have been on site now that's actually pulled out so that's why some of that that's been brought um i can come back and let you know what site it is i think it might be um was it anyone or something but okay i've got simon i've got sabia thank you chair uh thank you for your um thingy whatever it's called thank you he doesn't see your hands anyway well the question is it's a nice simple one a lot of the projects we all know be it bus or cycle is money from tfl my understanding is tearful have got budgetary restraints coming yep how is this going to impact and have we for example i hope okay we'll take a next year's figure is that being guaranteed okay question thank you one question yeah second question sabia third question shanty relevant this is here but i know you're working on rick robert sway and stratford do you know this traffic um a traffic light on walton road which is parallel to rick robert sway after the work has been done i think there has been more accidents is that something that we could look into or not so is that sorry so you've got the junction itself the crossroads of rick robert sway strafford high street yeah so after the traffic lights were put there there has been more accidents than before that so is that something that we can look in if you take it as a pretend take that away i'll answer now yes it's on a scheme for strap okay i think that is on the list here which is number 12. yeah okay brilliant chantu hi it's number 46 i'm referring that design is a improvement to facilitate growth and changing requirement in the line with legislation including new design and implementation so my question is referring these lines thanks water is taking a longer period to complete the leakage work to maintain on the main road and residential street which has been causing traffic why is not lvn strictly asking them to finish the work on time right those are the three so the first one simon sabias which has been answered yeah you're you can answer simon's question i'll jump in first and so that's right um next you put it with tfl we're in discussions with tfl at the moment when they're not exactly what they're giving us to be honest they haven't been very clear um but it isn't just tfl the schemes aren't just funded by tfl we do have a lot of developer funding and we're very successful with and the likes of gla and applying to gla and obviously we have love funding and other departments and central government departments that too and so i don't think you should hang all of our books on tfl in the future and i think that's how we safeguard ourselves going forward thank you yeah thank you thank you councillor for this question sorry councillor for this yes so can i can answer that as well um thames water yes so a network management team they do push thames water and if thames water actually have a delay so we agree a program at thames water to complete a piece of work if they overrun that program they have to actually pay delay damages to ourselves so there is a means a financial means for us to recoup money from them to try and get them to do the work as quickly as possible okay are you asking them to uh refund this money or no what would happen is they would make an application or a license to our network management team to excavate the carriageway and put in we say a new pipe or attempt or um if they say they're going to do that within six months and that overruns to we say seven months we will penalize them for sixth month for every day thereafter and it's a fine applied to them throughout that okay i'm going to be hold on okay that's the incentive i want to add some context just very quickly um alignment so tense water has been a problem for all london local properties piece of all uh lease of all newham um there's discussions of uh adopting a tfl standard line rental scheme which should help encourage tens water to do their jobs and do it quickly brilliant is that me yeah i'm taught um basically it's a charge on the road works that would do i mean uh jerry do i'll jump in actually yes so lane rent is something that tfl do um other authorities and there's three authorities they could do it effectively what it is is um you limit when someone can actually be on the road and it will be everyone so it won't just be times water be ourselves as well okay so we'd say you can be on the road from half nine in the morning until half three in the afternoon they're your road work hours you can do those but we might be specific and say outside the school you can't work between eight and nine or eight and a half and there are issues around it um because it won't just be thames water it'll be ourselves as well but we need to be really mindful when we do it and it's something obviously we're looking into um for yourself okay but it is something that we need to be really mindful of okay great john there's risks you mentioned your tech meetings which is the london council's travel and you give us some very good information from the insight today could i ask that when the minutes come out you just send them to the clerk and we send them to this committee and they can read it at their leisure because i think it'd be useful for us to be with you you know like that's me in spirit spirit because you give us some really good insight today sure and i think it'd be useful for us to have that and if you just have the minute send it to the karen we'll send it around and the guy can read it and i think that would be a brilliant way you can do that all right so in terms of issues which you discussed tonight one is communications right all right don't no dry emails there's some really great stuff in here you know i just bought the ball i don't know what you call them but we're looking it goes up and down oh the code the electronic you mean the electronic thing yeah look there's some stuff on there which is not really good information right well i won't party tonight but what i've heard tonight is some fantastic information about the very road i'm walking along you telling me what's going on and the millions of pounds we're literally talking about giving hundreds of quid or whatever to residents but we've got millions being spent on residents there's a disconnect right so one of some communications the thing i've picked up tonight is about budget realism the really good the between the both of you and i think in here we're talking about pausing and phasing really i will say about cutting somebody should be in a priority order to say if we don't get x amount of money this project goes everybody's expectation is is met because at the moment when you cut or if you have some of these projects one of your problems is managing expectations of residents and staff yourself and i don't think i think more budget realism could come in here we are about to go in recession as a country and i don't think the realism is here um and i think it could be more a really good bit here about trees and maintenance and john came in after about the health benefits of trees and other public um health benefits i think we should talk about that a lot more it's now a lot more so um counselor is sarah talked to i can't believe someone stopping you from spending money sarah i'm i'm stopping us from spending money it's allowing us to spend the money i think you can because any parking income needs to be spent within the transport budget right and this is proper budget so why don't you answer all right you don't have to answer that one um um 125 do you want to extend no we're going to finish right and the other bit i've got is green street i know you said you're waiting for regen colleagues to to you know come to a conclusion but i think it might be useful if you put a placeholder in your work to say about green street except that until they actually say anything it's not a place i mean you'll laugh when i say pedestrian is it can i say um thank you can i say thank you and also to thank jamie cook it's your last meeting first no it's his last meeting last meeting last meeting last last scrutiny meeting i just want to say you've been a great officer of the council they've been great and helped me many times and also some of the members here so i wish you well for cambridge all right and also to thank everyone i've i've really gained a lot tonight and uh and if any more information you want to send to us please do we do read it it's really i do anyway and it's really good good good work fantastic thank you have we got to do the work program