Transcript

Hello, everybody. Sorry about the delay in starting. Welcome to this evening's Planning Applications Committee. My name is Councillor Joanne Simpson and I am Chair of the meeting this evening. In line with legislation, committee members are attending this meeting in person at Lambeth Town Hall. Officers, visiting ward members and members of the public have joined us either virtually or in person. This meeting is being recorded and is being broadcast live. The recording of tonight's meeting may also be used for quality and training purposes. Whilst we hope everything runs smoothly, please be patient if we hit some challenges in this virtual environment. In the event that technical issues require the meeting to be adjourned and it cannot be restarted within a few minutes, further updates will be posted on the council's Twitter account, which is at LBL Democracy. Some housekeeping, the fire exits, you exit the room via either door and go up the stairs to street level. There's an accessible toilet just outside on the right hand side of the room. And there'll be a comfort break around 9pm if the meeting is still going. We've received apologies this evening from councillors Martin Bailey, Diogo Costa and Scott Ainsley. I'll now introduce members of the committee, starting with councillor Jaffa and we'll work this way. I'm councillor Jaffa, I'm a permanent member of the planning committee. I'm councillor Emma Nye, I represent Knights Hill ward and I'm also a permanent member of the planning committee. Evening, I'm councillor Malcolm Clarke of Stretton Wells ward and vice chair of the committee. I'm councillor Joanne Simpson, I represent Stokhal West and Larkol ward and I'm chair. I'll now turn to introducing the council officers at this evening's meeting, starting with our presiding officer. Good evening, my name is Rob O'Sullivan, I'm an assistant director in the planning service and I'll be presiding officer. And our backup presiding officer. Sorry, I'm really sorry, but I'm really finding trouble hearing you. OK, but if anybody here could make a big effort to reject your voice. Sorry, that's OK, no worries, thanks for letting me know. And our democratic services officer. Good evening, I'm Venetia, I'm the democratic services officer and glad to this meeting. Our legal officer. Good evening, Christopher Allingham, legal officer. And our transport officer. Good evening, Ciarán Cartland, transport officer. Our conservation officer. Good evening, Nicola Schwerer, conservation officer. Our environmental compliance officer. Dr. Ria Bolton, environmental compliance officer. Environmental compliance officer. And the presenting officer for the application. Good evening, Jennifer Walsh, area team manager for the Brixton and Clappingham areas. Can I just remind people joining us at home, can you only have your camera on if you're speaking? Thank you so much. OK, the order of business. There are four items on the agenda and they'll be considered in the way they appear. And all the paperwork is available on the council's website. Applications will be considered in the same way. We start with an officer presentation. Reports which should be considered by the committee will be presented by an officer who will highlight the main issues unless the committee members decide that a presentation is not required. However, we are having one this evening. Speakers. There are six members of the public who have registered to speak for the items on today's agenda. Can you ask that lady to turn her camera off? We then consider the application. Members of the committee may ask questions of the officers and will then consider the application. We then reach a decision. Formal notification of the committee's decision on applications decided this evening will be sent to the applicant and any interested parties who made written recommendations. The minutes from tonight's meeting will be published on the council's website. The deadline for final written submissions was 12 noon, one clear working day before the meeting. OK. Sorry. For those at home, would it be OK if you just turn your camera off? We just have cameras on when people are speaking. But it just gets a bit confusing. Thanks so much. OK. Item one is declarations of pecuniary interest. Do any members have any declarations of pecuniary interest they wish to declare? Thank you. Do any members have any declarations of any other declarations of interest they wish to declare? Thank you. And the minutes, item three, are the minutes of the meeting held on Tuesday the 8th of April 2025. Agreed. Agreed. Thank you. Thank you. OK. So now we move on to our main item, which is Brockwell Park. And just before I invite the officer to present the report, I just want to remind everybody here and watching at home that this is not a public meeting. It's a meeting that we hold in public. So I don't take deputations from the floor. We just hear from our registered speakers and technical specialists who are registered to address us if we need that information. And also to let people know that we don't always ask questions about every single aspect. That doesn't mean that we've not given it due consideration. It means that we have the information in the report of what we've heard from registered speakers or our specialists and we have enough information to to make a decision. OK, so I'm going to invite the officer to make the to make her presentation. Thank you. Good evening. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. you. and you. you. you. you. you. within the Norwood Road boundary. And let's check. So just in terms of the quality of, I guess, quality of the remainder of the park that is open for the public outside of the fencing, particularly, I guess, in relation to the quality of the land that is also being extended, I guess, are there sufficient alternative spaces that the public can utilise whatever facilities were there during the days that it's been stopped? Yeah, so there would be a diversion route, obviously, just around for those two days, which would need to have to go around the site to the sort of Brockwell Park Gardens entrance if you wanted to get in. But that's only for vehicles, as in, and there's only limited access into them. So pedestrians would just have to be diverted around this area to this entrance just here. Can I just clarify, is that only for the event day? So you're talking about how long is that being before and after as well? Yeah, sorry, I was just going to say the pedestrian entrance, sorry, is just where my cursor with the light is here. So that would be the diversion route around the park. So it wouldn't be there. Sorry, there isn't a gate there. So it would just be down to here. Yeah, so there would be, it would be for the setup. So the increased dates. I've got that. It would be for the entire period. Yeah, the fencing would be extended, yeah, for when the crossover of the event starts. Any other questions? Kat Lanai. Can I ask the 444 properties that were sent letters about this? Did that include Parkview Tower Block? And what was the area? So it's set out in the 440. I don't have, I can't provide the addresses at this time for all the 444, and I can't confirm every property in the Parkview Tower Block was consulted, but we did put up six site notices as well, which did include one outside the Lido as well, which would be opposite these properties. How's the Jaffa? Yeah. As I have mobility issues, I have found many of the residents also who are attending the Brockwell Park do have mobility issues. Are the organisers providing any wheelchairs or support? I know there will be John Ambulance Services with actual practical help and assistance. Pass up to the events. Yeah, we can. Yeah, I think that's probably not one of the officers, but not one of the events. Who is... Who sees Armand? Yeah, I can pick that up. So there's... You've got to come to the table. Yes, I can't speak from the floor, but you've come to the speaker's table. Thank you. The Land of the Country Show has an accessibility policy across the board. I don't have all the information within it, but I know there are... There is a key focus around it. I'm not entirely sure on if there's numbers of wheelchairs that are available. I'd have to go away and double check on those figures, but I know that there's an extensive policy on the website that can be available. I do think they do some kind of... There's welfare teams within the site so that if you're kind of going to site and you have those specific needs, there is a welfare team who can provide you with that support that you need. There's the accessible stages, there's kind of accessible toilets across the site, and that is kind of a key focus within Land of the Country Show. And if there's security on gates and there's certain things that are needed, then we can respond to specific requests. In terms of specific figures on the amount of wheelchairs, I'm not entirely sure, and we can take that away. Thank you. That's the jumper. Hello, please, Jane. You said something about the information on the website and all those things. I think to equal opportunities. Not everybody knows how to go on the web pages and they're not able to technically know about all these things. Is there any better way, easier way of informing people that these facilities are available and guide them to the place where they can acquire all those or take the information? Yeah, at any point, at any of the entrance points around the sites, if those particular needs were kind of made, if the staff at those gates are made aware of, there's a radio comm system where we have a welfare team who can come to those people or offer that on-site support. And so it's a bit of a, it depends on the situation. It could be one of many things. It could not necessarily be a physical barrier, but something else. And so we'll take that on a case-by-case basis on arrival at the gates. And there's kind of special things that you can send out to support with those specific requirements so that it's not just research that they would have to do before the event. While we have Ms. Salman here, do members have any other questions that might not be related to that, but to do with the running of the event, which would be better directed to Ms. Salman rather than the planning officer? Have we considered less damaging times of the year to us to run these events? If I would, maybe Kevin, did you want to answer this one? I can only have one person at a time at the speaker's table. So if Kevin is better to answer that point, do you want to swap? So as you know, the country show used to be in July. That's a traditional date. The reason for moving it to June was partly linked into the events framework that the partnership board and the initial request to move it actually came from local by community partners to to move away from event field and deering for two separate events, combine it and so on. That's actually reduced the impact on the park overall from major events. We do often get asked about moving the commercial events, but we don't dictate the applications. They come to us from commercial providers and they want that date in May because it kind of syncs with other festivals that they're involved with the country and it's about demand for performers as well. So the producers try and spread the events out across the spring and summer so that popular acts can attend different events. So if you want to make your way back, I've got a question about something that one of the objectives raised about trees and there was a concern that an Arbocorical impact assessment or tree protection plan haven't been submitted. Ian, can you clarify about that or the case officer and if not, you know, what consideration of the protection of trees has there been? Yeah, of course. Yeah, so for this is slightly separate because obviously this is the trees are looked after by the parks tree team, the tree team as separate to having the how in other applications we refer to the tree officer for in within planning. The trees are looked after by the parks team and it is part of the event permit to ensure that all the trees are protected prior to the setup of the event and they will be walking the site with the parks team to ensure that those protections are in place of the existing trees. They're not allowed to put anything on the trees and they will be protected from from the base around as well. So the tree protection is secured via the events permit? Yeah. Councillor Clarke, are we sticking with biodiversity? Yeah. Yeah. So the impact impact on grass. I guess I was picking up from what one of the objectives had and I would say euphemistically put as sunbathing ready grass, but I guess that sense of is there a timescale that the officers have or the applicant has in mind in terms of that reinstatement to what was before and in terms of not just the quality of the grass, I guess not just the quality of the grass but the type of uses the plan could be and I guess our officers are confident that the rest of the park can take up those, you know, those uses in the meantime while that's happening. Ian Bolton speaking, yes I think like any part of the park what you want the event organiser to do is to initiate the reinstatement process as soon as possible, as soon as the event is over and that's why we do require a reinstatement plan as part of the actual whole process so we know when, how and where and why they're going to reinstate and we have to don't scrutinise that recently to ensure actually it is meeting the requirements of the park, not just in terms of biodiversity but in terms of amenity as well. And does that incident plan also have to consider the edge effects as well when you've got an event site, there will be some edge impacts around the event site so a reinstatement plan should also include them as well. So just to clarify that amenity impact or usage is part of what is considered in that plan. Can I raise about what an object to, kind of concern about, about the data being out of day for the ecology appraisal? Well the whole thing about data, data is only as good as the moment you collect it and we do have access to systems where we can obtain past research data, survey data to build a picture about a baseline. So out of day 2020 but one things we have said very clearly to the applicant is they have to produce an updated ecological impact assessment before the event commence and we have to ensure that is compliant and it's acceptable because we can't let the events proceed unless we have that up-to-date information and I believe that is going to be set as a condition for this application and we need to see that and prove that before the bill could even start. So that's, can I just clarify that would be a pre-commencement condition? Okay that's helpful, thank you. Councillor Nye. Can I just ask a follow-up, saying that you go into three slides of recovery, what do you think it's not up to standards? Well that then we'll really turn back to the event organiser to obviously invest more resources, more time, more materials to ensure that a set standard is reached. You know we have to consider Brockwood Park as a public open space, not just as a nature site or a heritage site and it has to be to a certain standard otherwise of course footfall through the rest of the year will actually make things worse. So you have to set a standard if that standard is not met that will return to the event organiser to then address those defects and that includes extreme weather. They need to ensure their reinstating plan considers what could happen after extreme weather. We learn from past experiences. Councillor Clarke. One more in this area, so just we heard from the agrologist around their recommendations about increased use of fertiliser and different types of elupiation measures. Are those recommendations of being incorporated into the management of Brockwell Park? They would have to be yes, and the primary consideration that we prefer to use non-chemical fertilisers, ones which are obviously environmentally sensitive and find environmentally acceptable, leave the days of using chemical fertilisers clearly disappearing. We want to use products which provide a rich sward but are environmentally friendly as well. And that would be part of the reinstatement programme as well. Yes. Just from a planning perspective, what's the status of the agrologist report in terms of then informing the work that is done? How does that sit with, I guess, the conditions that then are in place? The reinstatement programme would clearly have to take into account that the agrologist report and their recommendations and instructions. I guess we want to know, how is it secured? via a condition or is it via the fence permit again or? I'm not aware of how that would be done. I think that would be part of the actual conditions that they're producing in the restoration planner instead of the planning, but maybe the technical officer wants to come in. So the report is a approved document and then the condition would have to abide by those as well and take that into account and how it's through path of promotion. Thank you. I've just got one more final question on this area, if that's okay. Can you outline what lessons were learned from from last year? I appreciate some of it was the weather, but. I'd have to pass to one of the technical specialists on the agrologist reports because I wasn't party to the actual discussions around the reinstatement plan at that time. I've got a bit of information on that in relation to obviously the wet weather plan, but also there's pre agreed timelines and scope of those remedial works, including the feed and fertilizer type, which we just discussed, and also the to avoid delays. The ground protection type has also been looked at in relation to being more agile and put down for wet periods and take it up if that weather front passes and be more reactive to those to the weather. And then also the on site supervision and the key and sort of key times in the build of looking at when those those walk arounds are done and taking the the sort of points to be reactive to those measures as well. All right. Thank you. Any more questions being away from this one? Yeah, I think that's okay. Yeah, thanks. There was an accident last year of a malfunction of the amusement side. Have we taken that into consideration and have you improved the situation? Maybe one for the events. Yeah. So Miss Zaman, would you mind if you're the right person? Yeah. Unfortunately, there was a accident on one of the funfair rides. So yes. Yeah. And so with regards to kind of improvements, we the incident is being that we're independently by the HSE. Who are the HSE? Sorry, the Health and Safety's Exit and that investigation is going. We have, we follow within Lambeth the health and safety measures that are kind of industry standard and best practice. We will continue to do that work and will continue to have scrutiny on kind of the event providers and their, and their operators. Whether it's worth noting that the same provider isn't returning to Lambeth the country this year. But ultimately the, the processes in which we operate are still, they are robust and they are kind of part of that process and we await any kind of findings from the HSE from the health and safety executive about, about any learnings that we have. But ultimately we will have kind of the inspectors kind of body, ADIPS will be, we would have additional inspections to ensure that we're making sure that there are lessons learned and robust. But we don't, there's not from our perspective, additional, massively additional measures that we have to do because we await any kind of findings from the HSE. This is the, we invite or hire or whatever you call it, these people who have these facilities. Do we have conditions for that? Strong conditions, safety conditions and all the other conditions. So as an authority we, we wouldn't, it's not up to us to set those conditions. There's very, very heightened conditions that they must have as part of their ADIPS inspections. We have, we follow the industry practice for that and so we must adhere to that and we would obviously make sure that we check all the documentation that we have from, from the body who is responsible for that. Us as officers wouldn't have the same expertise that we could, we could put against that. So we have to rely on, on the bodies who are, who are responsible. But yes, they have, they must provide all of the health and safety and the training and, and all of the information to, to Lambeth and to the provider to, to provide that assurance. Okay, I'm going to stop there because it was, whilst I understand why there's an interest, it isn't a planning matter, it is, it is health and safety. But maybe you could take it up afterwards should permission be granted. Yeah, but it's not a planning matter. So, is this for Ms. Salman? Okay. Would you like to make your way back? Thank you. Councillor Clarke. Okay. Possibly going back on something we already discussed, but just a better understanding how the cumulative impacts of, I say, the whole sweep of events that are taking place are then looked at after the events. So, as well as the reinstatement for this particular event, the Lambeth Country Show. I guess what, what measures are in place, what, what is in place to kind of look holistically across the piece before deciding what might then be suitable or happen next year. And I appreciate that we're not, let's see, this isn't about judging what happens in the future, so much as just understanding how we look at the impact of the cumulative set of events that are happening next year. So, just on a general point, is that obviously they have been happening and we need to take into account of those lessons learnt, what's gone right and what's gone wrong. So, it's constantly evolving and there are changes that are being made even down to some of the management set up and of even the internal, how sort of movement works internally, that's all constantly evolving of what works, what doesn't. There has been sort of changes in relation to the transport as well and so we're constantly asking for those, those updates of those monitoring plans for the transport to see how people are arriving to the site and what's happening, what's changing there, changes to the traffic orders around the site. So, we're building on what happened from the previous year over and above what just how it goes into the ground. Again, it is about how the events are run and learning on the events of that. So, if that's sufficient information? Thanks. So, what you're saying, you're learning from not just the country show but all of the events that are. Exactly that, yeah. As we said, it is a material consideration and so, obviously, one does feed into the other. However, also, some things that have worked for the live events need to feed into the county show. The report pack said there's been a reduction in the event schedule since 2024. How much has that been by? So, we've been 43 days this year. 43 days, yeah. So, that takes into account, obviously, it's not just these two events. There are other events that happen within the FARC. So, the committed development days did include the selling of the Christmas tree area but also there wasn't any circuses within the Easter break. So, there's been a reduction on that as well. So, it's overall, there is no large major events following on from this. So, it's not just these events that have been counted, it's the overall reduction. Okay, I'm going to open up to discussing the application, the merits of the scheme, perhaps an indication of how members might be minded to vote this evening and why. Who would like to go first with their thoughts? Councillor Clarke. I was hoping you'd give me a few more minutes to gather my points. But, yes, I think what we have here is kind of there's two things to balance and consider in my mind or to look at. One is obviously the very specifics of the country show and then secondly as well to bear in mind the cumulative impacts of the whole period as well. And I think kind of what we have is quite rightly some questions asked around particularly around the biodiversity impact, the impact on the ground conditions and particularly then its impact, how that impacts on residents, oh sorry, not residents, or obviously on communities. And so, I think it's right that these things today have been, we've tried to tease that out and really understand what level impact there is, but also what is the, to try and reassure ourselves, say from my point of view, reassure myself that they have the the full focus and attention on not just mitigations beforehand, but on what happens afterwards as well. And I think kind of from my point of view, I am more reassured after kind of hearing things this evening that we, yeah, we are not just taking these things seriously, but also looking at say how we can improve event by event year on year on year as well to lessen some of the quite rightful concerns that are there. But then kind of taking it as, yeah, looking at the event as a whole, it is, yeah, well, there are, yeah, short-term impacts on the immunity uses of the park, and I say very low levels of harm on the heritage aspect, a couple of the heritage aspects, you have some very significant benefits that have been outlined, particularly around the community cohesion, around a free event. which is, yeah, very sick, yeah, very important, you know, for ensuring that we do get that diversity of Lambeth, you know, Lambethrescence there. And so from my point of view, and I say I think I was comforted as well by the noise angle as well, which although has not been as complained about, it's still something that, you know, we know as ward councillors in our, you know, our own parks, you know, is important to people. So, yes, I am reassured. I think this is still something that I would like to, you know, ensure that officers don't take their, what's the right phrase for it, you know, foot off the pedal for this in terms of the vigilance and the ensuring that we are as strong as we can be to, to the applicant, you know, in ensuring that conditions are met and reinstatement is done with, uh, amenity usage in mind. But from my point of view, I can see that and I will support the application. Thank you. Anyone else? Councillor Nye. So, building on, uh, Councillor Clarke's comments there, I think following the presentations from offices tonight, have confidence that the impacts have been assessed, they've been monitored, um, really glad to hear that we will be active to conditions on the ground as they're happening, um, and the focus on the park being able to be used as it was before events took place, so I would also be one to support the application. Thank you. That's the Jaffa. Sorry, this is a real true, um, impact of diversity. Every citizen, most of them. Yep. From all over the cultures, backgrounds and races, they all attend that. It's such a cohesion event and children, families, they thoroughly enjoy it. We have few hiccups there, but if we manage those officers, take control of those, it will be a great event for Lambert. I'm really supportive. Okay, thank you. Um, just to add, um, what's already been said, um, I can understand concerns that have been raised. However, I too have confidence that these have have been sufficiently assessed and due consideration has been given to mitigation and also post post events. And, um, um, I think it goes about saying that, um, the scrutiny of the, um, reinstatement and remediation is, is going to be intense, not just from, um, council, counsellors and, um, the public and, um, the people who have registered to come today, but, um, hopefully also from, from the planning officers and the relevant people in the licensing and events team. Um, because that is very important. However, I do have confidence that that's going to be the case. And, um, as has already been pointed out, um, the public benefits that are brought by, um, Lamb of Country show are hugely significant. Young people, people from different backgrounds and the fact that, um, it's been able to be kept free again this year really is a significant achievement. Um, and, um, how that's been done by, by bringing the events together, um, I think should be applauded really. Um, and also the benefits to local businesses, um, who, you know, really do rely on this event. Um, so there are a huge amount of public benefits that do outweigh, um, that, um, what I would agree to be a level of less than significant harm to their heritage, um, impacts and other potential harms I think have been considered sufficiently and have the relevant mitigation. And, um, I've looked at the conditions and I find those, um, robust and effective, hopefully. So with that in mind, I'm going to propose that we accept officers' recommendation and approve planning, uh, permission for Lamb of Country show. Do I see a secondary? Uh, so Councillor Nye first. All those in favour, please raise your hands. That is unanimous. Okay. That was our final item for, um, tonight's planning committee. Um, so thank you everybody for your time and, um, yes, goodbye and good night. Thank you.