Hi. Good evening. Welcome to this meeting of the licensing subcommittee, which will be held in a hybrid format. This hearing will be considered an application for a new premises license for Battersea Food and Wine, which is 42, Battersea Rise, London, SW11, 1EE in the 11 award. As we're appearing virtually, you know, bear with us if we have any issues. My name is Councillor McLeod. I'm the chair of the licensing subcommittee. And I now invite the members of the subcommittee to introduce themselves. And today, we only have two members, myself and Councillor JEFFREES. Good evening, everyone. I'm Councillor James JEFFREES for Thames Field Board. Thank you. And the officers present are Caroline Sharkey, who's the licensing manager who's appearing remotely, a legal advisor who is also appearing remotely. And with me here is Michael Flowers, who's in person. Because we're using this hybrid method, I ask anyone who speaks to introduce themselves before they speak each time, and to remember to mute themselves after speaking. We may have... Councillor Dior to introduce the applicant as well. I'm so sorry. Apologies. Thank you. Speaking for... Oh, yes, okay. Sorry. And we have appeared remotely. How do you turn the camera and things? Because I tried once and it's just disappeared. How do you do it? Are you talking to me, Mr. Sharkey? Yes, it's gone. We can see you and hear you now. We can see you now. Oh, hi. I'm so sorry. That's okay. Oh, yes. That's okay. Sorry. Welcome. I was talking to myself. Hello. My name is... It sounded like you were getting some... I'm not interrupting. I'm so sorry. No, no. You're perfectly... You're exactly the right time because I was just introducing you to the meeting. So you... It's perfectly correct time. I was just saying that we have you here speaking for the applicants. And your name is Vijay Tumar. Is that correct? We did too. Yes, please. Thank you. Okay. Are there any declarations of either pecuniary or vegetable or non-riskable interests in any of the matters to be discussed at this meeting that an expert for myself and Councillor Jeffress and no for me? But nothing for me. Thank you. Okay. So we're now to consider the application for a new premises license in respect of the premises known as Battersea Food and Wine, 42 Battersea Rise, London SW11EE in the Lavender Ward. The subcommittee will hear the case as a discussion with the maximum time of five minutes for each party to say their part. Now, I'm going to go to our licensing manager, Caroline Sharkey, who will present the reports. Thank you, Chair. Mindful you've read the paper, work in front of you. So I'll just give you a summary of some pertinent points for you to consider tonight. This is a premises license and it is submitted by Battersea Food and Wine Limited. They are seeking to sell alcohol for consumption of the premises between 7am until midnight and then from Sunday through to Thursday, 7am until two, the following day on Fridays and Saturday. They initially asked for the premises closing times from 6am until midnight, Sunday through Thursday and 6am until 8am, the following day Fridays and Saturday. During the application, it was advertised as required by law and the copies of the applications were sent to the responsible authority. And during the 28-day consultation period, we received a representation from the Metropolitan Police who raised concerns that granting the application in its initial form would undermine the prevention of crime and disorder licensing objectives. The police then requested a reduction in the hours applied for. The police also requested for further conditions to be added to the license if it were to be granted and this was CCTV security incidents and not serving alcohol in single cans and also the requested for signage regarding patrons leaving the premises and area quietly. The applicant chair agreed to reduce the hours for the sale of alcohol for consumption of the premises and he reduced him from 8am to 10pm on Sundays, 8am until midnight on Monday through Wednesday, 8am until 1am, the following day on Thursday's Fridays and Saturdays and the opening hours he changed them from 6am on Sundays to 11pm, 6am until midnight Monday through to Wednesday and then 6am until 1am, the following day on Thursday through to Sunday. When the applicant agreed this chair, the police withdrew their representation. In the 28 days we also received one relevant objections from persons living near the property and they were concerned that granting the license would undermine public nuisance, crime and disorder and the protection from children from harm as licensing objectives. Their responses were relating to patrons, intoxicated patrons and disorderly behaviour in the area, excessive alcohol consumption, they've referred to other premises but I'm sure they're licensing a legal advisor will advise you chair on what you can accept in terms of issues happening at other premises and they've also complained about litter, broken bottles in relation to crime and disorder and also public disorder. This is this representation chair as far as I'm aware it's not been withdrawn and this is the matter that you've got to consider tonight in addition to the agreed measures that the applicant has put forward. In addition to this chair, the applicant did volunteer in the operation, share your part of the application, other measures to promote the licensing objectives and these measures are produced in appendix say of the report. This is produced on pages 7 to 12 of the agenda. The licensing subcommittee tonight may modify these conditions if they consider such steps appropriate after hearing all the evidence tonight and with a view to promoting the licensing objectives, the options available to the committee tonight are either to grant the application to modify any conditions if they're minded to grant it or to reject the application and this is the application as I understand it chair. I'm happy to answer any questions or points of clarification at this stage. Thank you. Thank you very much Ms Sharkey. I go to the subcommittee. Any questions at this stage? Not at this stage, but I think when we come back on to discuss it, be good to cover a few points. Good stuff. Thank you. Same for me. Okay. So in that case, in that case, I invite the applicant. Sorry. Sorry, Mr Bishop. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt, Councillor. I just thought through you, I'd ask a quick question, which is assists. I've noticed in appendix B that there's a reference to 10 a.m. as opposed to 10 p.m. And I'm assuming that's just typographical. Good. No worries. Thanks. That's that's particularly sharp. All right. Thank you. Sorry. And I will just confirm for the record. We do now have the representation, Sarah Parr in the meeting. So, Sarah, you'll have an opportunity to speak after the applicant has, but welcome to the meeting. Thank you. And indeed, I reiterate that. Welcome. Thank you for giving up time to help us do what we do here. Okay. So now, invite the applicant to address the subcommittee. Vijay Tumar, who's a representative for the applicant who's appearing remotely. Welcome to Tumar. What I'd ask is that you have five minutes, but you don't need to take them all. If you just explain for us, I guess why you want this license and how you respond, it'd be particularly helpful if you say, if you'd let us know how you'd respond to some of the worries of your neighbor as expressed in the papers that you would have been sent. So, yes, if you if you if you can speak for about five minutes, that would be great. First of all, thank you, everyone, for taking time out for today's meeting. My name is Vijay. A little bit of background about me. I own two places in one's with one on North Court Road, one on back to 11 to hell. Those two shops are off license operating in the same manner which we applied for on back to the rise. It's been eight years. I'm into this retail business running my own business. And it's been 15 years. I'm into retail industry. I do consider the community where I operate, where our other shops businesses are operating. We do consider community plays a big part. And when initially for the North Court of when I applied for license couple of years back, we had 11 representation. We had it. I can I can tell you very honestly that the people who oppose the license, they are our regular customers. They are really thankful that we are here in this in this area serving over community. Regarding the noise pollution or broken bottles and things which is which has, you know, gained my attention, the pattern which I have noticed in my retail career is when the shops are closed, it becomes a little place for people. You cannot stop people. Once the shop opens, when the businesses are open in a high street or in the street or anywhere, it becomes less nuisance because people are afraid to do so in front of shopkeepers or business owners or because they are staff. They are people coming in and out. So I can tell me, sir, that we as a as a as a retailer do take these things very seriously looking after our people community and all. We have really good knowledge, good experience in this field, how to handle the other that other type of nuisance, including noise pollution and any other things. We do not serve any single cans about six person and think we do take this into consideration. And it's a proven track record. If I consider both of my premises, it's a proven track record that we never been in trouble with our community, with other people. We got two schools around in all North Court Road where we have school children coming in and out. I don't think so many of license practices, but we personally practice anyone under 14 years of age. We do not even sell energy drink. This is how strict we are in operating because we like to look after the community because we are getting support from community. And this is the thing we in in in in exchange, we look after our community. Anyone under 14, that's not even by law. And we do practice anyone under 14 or under 30. We we do not sell even energy drinks. So forget about selling alcohol and all waves or any other things. So this is our contribution to as a community where we serve. So I mean that's all I can say. We have proven track record of not being in trouble in spite of running two different shops are very close to each other. Thank you. Yeah, that's that's that's really helpful. We'll you'll have more time because I'm sure once the once the residents spoken and once you have questions, so that's really helpful. I'll look over to now to my colleagues. Do you have any questions? Councilor Jeffries? No, not at this point. Thank you. Okay, I mean, I I do just to I mean, we'll hear from the the resident and then that might put some some weight on to these questions. I'm just really one. I'm really I'm glad to hear you know that things seem to be going well in your other stores in in this door to mitigate the fears that the that the residents sort of outlaid. What sort of staffing will be in the store late at night? Are you I know you're saying that that people are less likely to litter if the store's open because it you know there's a presence there, but do you have do you have staff that will be sort of you know looking outside of the store making sure that you neither is no problem? Yes, we were initially I planned is my train stop from Lockhart shop. I'm going to put them to run the better because they are experienced, they are trained in every aspect of running retail business like this. So this is our initial plan to dissolve into community to you know make our people welcome and safe as well at the at the same time. So all all of the staff will be trained. There will be no new staff at any point of time. We will have at least three member of staff. So which makes a safer place to shop and things. Even at late night, we in our not got sure we have at least three to four staff until midnight. Thank you. That's that's helpful. I'm just noticing. Yeah. Okay. So I've just noticed the resident has dropped off. I think that she's probably having issues with the technology. Okay. And I'm kind of keen for her to hear this part of the conversation. If there we go. Welcome back. I saw you having technical issues, Sara. So you didn't you didn't miss very much. You cut off, I think, and we sort of virtually paused after that. So you haven't missed very much. I was just asking the applicant to say something about the staff that would be present at the store to mitigate some of the concerns that you had about problem drinkers outside and things like that. Okay. So if there are still no questions from the committee, I think what I'll do what we'll do now is go to we'll go to the resident who's making up making a representation. Sara Panzachi. Are you are you able to join everything? Okay. Technology was. I think you're on mute if you're speaking. I can see that you've got a mute sign. She's unmuted. I'm muted. No. No. She is. Oh. Ms. Panzachi. Are you? I'm not sure if you can hear us, but we can't hear you. There's a muted sign on you, so I don't know if you're speaking or she's got. Okay. That explains. Which makes it a bit awkward. I'm pausing for a bit because I'm hoping she's just about to rejoin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Yeah. We're giving apologies, everyone. We're giving a little minute for her to rejoin. We can carry on regardless, but you know, obviously, I would very much like to have her concerns addressed. Okay. She'll try to rejoin now. We did warn about possible technical issues. [silence] [silence] Hello. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Can you hear me? I can. Wonderful. Thank you for persevering. I'm not sure how far you heard up to. I heard everything apologies, but I actually have an issue with my last clip, so I had to connect with my phone. Well, we're glad that you have. So thank you. What I was saying was if you're able, be really good now for just a few minutes up to five minutes for you to explain what your concerns are. I don't know if you have a chance to look at any of the information that's gone out from the applicant talking about how they're going to try and address some of the police's concerns and those have now been put to address. Yeah. So just a few minutes explaining why this concerns you and yeah. Okay. My camera should be working as well now, right? It is. We can see you. Awesome. Perfect. Thank you. So thanks a lot, first of all, for inviting me and thanks, Vijay as well, for, you know, like summarizing your stance. I think, first of all, like the, the, let's say, concern that I have is not just related to myself as a homeowner, but I think we, we submitted it also like with our neighbors. So Marco Cavalini, Juliano Butchino, and my own husband, Adelelab. It's not as much related like to the presence of an off-licence, but it's honestly like more related to the current situation that we're living on the street, which we are afraid it's going to get potentially like worse with the presence of an off-licence. And I just want to summarize a bit our stance at the moment. So where we leave, we currently have three, yeah, two main bars that are open until 2am. Okay. One is called Tequila Mockingbird. The other one is called, used to be called Girlfriend, I think recently changed to R Bar. And then below our place, there is also like Indian Moments, which is a restaurant which doesn't have an alcohol license. So it's allowing basically like people to bring their own alcohol in. And if any of you would pass by our street in, in a random weekend between, let's say, midnight and 2am, you would probably like understand why we are raising, let's say, this concern because really often what happens is we find our street full of vomit, full of people who are, you know, getting into fights because of intoxication of alcohol. Really often I open the door if I'm leaving like at midnight and there are people just urinating out of our door. Like you can just imagine the smell in the morning. We've been raising quite a lot of complaints specifically to Tequila Mockingbird. I think they've been trying as much as possible to move the people and like ensure that the people are not grouping out of their premise. But then as a consequence, what ends up happening is that a lot of these groups of young people end up not staying in front of the clubs, but kind of like grouping in front of our place or in general like on the street, not in front of one specific premise. Because they often are drunk and they are not allowed to enter these clubs, they end up getting their own drinks either from Tesco. There is a Tesco quite close to where we live or other places and then they just drink on the street and they continue basically like their night in in the middle of the street. Sometimes the bouncers from the different bars are obviously like kind of ensuring that these people are moving out, especially if they're being loud because they know that we've been complaining in a broken way. Sometimes they just let it go. And we've been living in this building for the past three years. And to be honest, we're missing I'm really sorry, Ms. Panjachi. We've just lost the other Councillor. And I think by regulation we need to have at least two of us in the room. So if you could just hold them for a second while he rejoins. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Sorry, I know you were in mid flow, but I didn't want to. No, no, don't worry, don't worry. What is the correct pronunciation of your surname? Panzaki. Panzaki, thank you. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] Okay, okay. Yeah, I think he's rejoining presently. Technology's brilliant when it works and a nightmare when it doesn't, so I'm sorry. [inaudible] I think he's happened to change devices, which is what the hold up is. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] Oh, okay, right. Yes. Welcome back, Councillor Jeffries. We paused. [inaudible] problems. Yes, no, I understand. Thanks for rejoining. We paused because we couldn't, we can't carry on without there being at least two of us here, so you haven't missed one thing. And you've got about a minute and a half left Ms. Panzaki. Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. So, yeah, I lost to be the track, but just to close my like the summary of where I stand at the moment, so we recently actually like started tracking whether there is, I mean, we started investigating selling our property and what I found extremely concerning is the fact that two of our offers actually fell through because some of the people that visited the apartment obviously like wanted to visit the area at night and they obviously like happened to pass by during the weekend and they found it quite concerning to see basically like how the situation is at night specifically because we were talking about families with kids. So, I think this summarizes more or less what my concern is. Like it's a concern, which again, it's not necessarily like related to the off license itself, but to me, adding up like another store which sells alcohol at night in a street where during weekends we already have an extra amount of young people completely intoxicated. It's not necessarily like going to let's say help the area to let's say be evaluated or valued the way I think it should be. So, yeah, if there is any way that Mr. Vijay can, you know, like plan towards that, then, you know, I'm more than happy to listen to it, but this is where I stand at the moment. Thank you, that's very helpful and very, very well explained to be honest. Councillor Jeffries, do you have any questions for the resident? Yeah, if I could, sorry, thank you very much for your comments and completely appreciate where you're coming from. It would be helpful just to understand, is this something that's gotten worse over a period of time, or has it always been a problem at a similar level ever since you've been there? Because I think what would be, I don't know if there's a more general issue in terms of the licenses of all of the other premises and the enforcement around that, as opposed to, you know, the specific problem with the news agent that we're talking about. Yeah, good question. I think that it's definitely become more visible over the past, I would say, year, so once a month. But again, like, I need to be honest, we've been living there since, like, four or three years, or like, we've been living in part in those three years. Okay. Great, thank you. Thank you. And yeah, from my point of view, I guess, and first off, I want to say, I'm sorry that you're having to go through what it sounds like you're having to go through, and that's not nice, and I agree with Councillor Jeffries, it feels like the council or something needs to be done to, you know, to alleviate that. If there's a problem that's building up, then something needs to be done to sort it out. But yeah, I'm interested in how, I know that you're worried that this is an accumulative worry that you seem to have, that this is just another thing that's going to add to the problems you're already having, rather than any particular, you know, not wanting this shot, particularly, or having any reasons to think that this particular applicant would be a bad, a bad license holder. Yeah, it's not related, as I said, at the beginning, like, to the shop itself is more about the situation on the street. I understand, and I am going to go back to the applicant in a minute, but just so I can get an idea, do you have any, and it's hard for me, I guess it'll be hard for you to say, but what sort of things might put your mind at rest, what sorts of actions, do you have any ideas about what sorts of things could make you think, oh, okay, this isn't going to be bad, this is going to be something that, you know, this is an establishment, it's going to be in my area, and we'll add to the area, rather than making more of a problem with anything along those lines. And again, I'm, you know, I'm not asking you to invent things, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that Vivre mentioned something at the beginning, which is, like, just keeping an eye on the people who are, let's say, purchasing in the shop. To me, that is fundamental, because again, what I see is, like, people who are already intoxicated, getting intoxicated even more, and then this is what is causing them basically, like, vomiting, urinating, et cetera, et cetera, in the area. So I think it's probably, like, also in the license holder interest to ensure that whoever works, the nights in the store, make sure that there are no groups of people in front of the store, just basically, like, drinking alcohol and stopping on the street. And yeah, that order is kept in front of the premise and, you know, like, around the premise, specifically at night. Thank you. That's, that's really helpful. If there are no more questions for you, I'm looking at my colleague. If there are no more questions for you, I might. I have a, I'd like to go back to the applicant and put some things to him. If that's okay, Councillor Jeffries, is that all right? Great stuff. Okay, thank you again, but please stay on the calls. It might be that I want to come back to you and, and about what, what's said now. Mr. Tumar, can I, you've heard what the resident said. To my mind, she sounds very, she doesn't sound as if she has animosity towards the shop or anything like that. It's just a genuine concern. Is there any more that you can say about, um, about how you can, how you, how you assuaged those concerns? Like, for instance, if, if there are young people in the area who are drunk, you know, is your shop going to be serving them and add into that? How do you make sure that when people leave your shop, they're leaving in an orderly fashion, just talk a little bit about that sort of info. And, and, and, so before you do, I can see that our league advisor has his hand up site. I might be asking you the wrong thing. Let me just check. Not, not at all, not at all. I was just going to add that, of course, selling alcohol to somebody who's already intoxicated is a criminal offense. And Mr. Tumar will be fully and very clearly aware of that from his other two premises. Um, but it goes without saying that, um, if you've got somebody who's, um, drunk coming in for more alcohol, you can't serve him. Thank you. That, that's helpful. Um, Mr. Tumar, I, I, I, I allow you to respond to it. Yes. Um, I leave upstairs on the not good shop. So I do feel, uh, missiles concerned, to be honest. I, I literally related what she might be going through, whereas I haven't faced those difficulty in here because we have been taking steps since we came here. Um, particularly selling alcohol and things. We are very, very strict. Uh, I remember one of the council officers is the ban, if I'm not wrong. He was, there were two officers who visited our shop twice, I guess. Um, he was very, very impressed. And his colleague was very impressed the way we take, um, street action, um, selling alcohol and things. Um, nobody, nobody put it in practice as far as I know, because I go, we got six, seven shops in my group. All of my friends runs this office of business, but we put in practice, we have kept an ultraviolet light under the counter, which count, you see, there are so many fake oids nowadays in the market, young kids are bringing it. But if you put under the UV light, you can figure out whether it's fake or genuine. We practice this. All of my staff members have the application where they can check the path hologram, the citizenship card, where they, when they bring the ID, we, we scandal the, the ID is we, we put the numbers and the app will tell you straight away whether it's a fake one or the legit the right one. So this is what we've been practicing. All of my staff, they have application in their mobile phones. There are two ultraviolet lights underneath aqua counters on the boat chills. So we do take strict, um, um, um, you know, so we don't allow it. I go 20 year old daughter and I do understand I leave upstairs of the shop. So I do understand this as concern and you look after the community as well. Secondly, in our fantasy shop, I have put the door which opens inside because I've noticed the pavement is smaller compared to my north court shop compared to my lavender shop. So not to create that nieces, otherwise I would have kept the sliding one, which every other shops have it. But due to the nature of my business, I've taken into the consideration beforehand when I started building up, the door is opening inside the premises. Secondly, uh, as far as I remember, Miss Sarah noticed that putting things outside the shop, which gonna, you know, make the pavement more congested, it'll be difficult for pedestrians to walk and think difficult for residential people to come out and walk and things. None of my shop, we don't put anything outside of a shop premises. I worked for Tesco's for 10 years, less and little less than 10 years and I resigned as a store manager. So I do understand the value of retailing the things you bring to community. We are not any of the off licenses you might have seen in past few years. We are almost similar, delivering serving community, almost similar to this big company. We do follow stick actions, stick actions. We do not serve alcohol to any drone person, any people walking in. We have more than two, three staff. After 10 o'clock, one of my staff stays by the door. I'm paying extra wages to do this. Just to make sure that when people walking in, they see there is someone standing by the door. So before they think to create any nuisance or shout or anything, they get that feeling, Oh, there is someone standing by the door. So this kind of measures we have taken from our sidewalk before anyone walk into us and tells us to do certain things. But saying this, any suggestion would be welcome from me, Sarah, to be honest, because we're going to be neighbours. If any suggestion would be very, very welcome and we will take into consideration to make our community safer. Thank you. That's very helpful. Sorry, Mr Bishop. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt again. It was just, again, to help the committee, Mr Tumar. Can you just confirm if you have any attenuation measures that you've taken in terms of the ceiling or anything like that to help out? Does that help? In terms of, sorry, I missed something. Any attenuation? So noise, lessening measures or anything like that. Yes, we have the noise cancelling ceilings on the top. And we have the another ceiling which we, I started building up, we're putting, is a noise cancellation ceiling. Probably the word would you call it. But yes, the noise are going to go out. And the door going to be closed all the time. So if anyone is inside talking, any customers, if I got more than two, five, ten customers at one point of time, the door will be closed. We're not going to keep the sliding door, keep it open for until we operate. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And, and, and something you kind of touched on there, a little bit, which if, if this license is granted and you've kind of talked about this with your other stores and it's something I am quite keen on, what will you do to keep the lines of communication open with local residents so that if any local residents are having issues with how you're doing business that they've got a clear, I think before they sort of come to the council or talk to the police, they should be able to come and talk to you. How would that happen? We, we, all of my staffs are highly trained. We are friendly and we treat people the way they like to be treated. Right. So the, the, the atmosphere of which we created, I'm sorry, I'm going off, right, but I would like to invite myself to over, I will not go to shop if, if she got time on weekend or any time, but we have created that environment where my people, my, my customers, my people are really, really happy with those. You can have, you can, this other can see the review online, the getting for our not got shop. It itself says that I don't have to prove, but I will prove once I'm there, but we, we, we, we are one of those people who love to, because I live in this area. I leave on top of my not got shop. I do understand the locality, the people, the, the, the, the value of communication. So any suggestions, anything are more than welcome. I, we do have people walking in, my customers, regular customers, walking in, they do suggest us till now, they do suggest us, oh, can you do this? Can you do that? This, this, this, and we straight away put into implementation. We just, we just don't hold it back and think, oh, you know what? No, if my people are not happy, we do it. That, that's very good to hear. We are open for changes, to be honest. Maybe you can exchange numbers or something, can you, of course? Yeah, that, that's wonderful. Um, yeah, in terms of suggestions, I know that some license holders, for instance, um, uh, would have a phone number somewhere very visible in the store that if people, you know, someone might not want to complain at that time at night, but they have a, a direct way of getting in touch with, with you, basically, and saying, look, this is what we're experiencing. Uh, that might, that might be an easy way of, of, uh, of, of allowing people to get in touch with you if, if they need to, but, but certainly, um, yeah, that, that, that, that sounds, that sounds good. Um, uh, I'm going to ask Councillor Jeffries, and then I'll, then I'm, I was going to check in with the resident just to see, just for, we can get an idea of what, what she thinks of what she's heard, just so that, you know, because that'll be helpful in her positions. Councillor Jeffries, did you have any, uh, any follow-up questions? No, I didn't have anything, um, further to add, I think, um, Councillor and the Cloud, you've made the point there about, um, communications, uh, really well. I suppose that might sit, sort of, technically, outside of the, sort of, legal framework of, of, um, the license itself, but, uh, it sounds like, um, the applicant's freaking to, uh, facilitate that. So, um, yeah, before we can, sort of, take that as, as, as red, that, um, uh, the, there will be an open door, and a door going, inwards, um, that would be, uh, really positive, I think. Thank you. Um, uh, Ms. Panjati, um, can I, if you're still, I think you are, can, can I just, can I just get an eye, uh, an idea of how you're feeling, um, about what you've heard, so that we, so that we can take into our decisions later? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so, again, I just want to reiterate the fact that, like, uh, the, uh, like, my entire point is not around this for itself. Uh, so I trust that, uh, you know, like, uh, Mr. D. Vite, uh, know how to do his, uh, job, uh, properly, and he has the experience to do that. Again, my point is more about what are we going to do to ensure, uh, that, uh, we make that street a safer, uh, place. So, one of the points that I had raised was, um, actually, like, um, how can we avoid gatherings of people, uh, with alcohol on the street, specifically, like, in the moments, they probably, like, try to get into some of the clubs. They're rejected from the clubs, so the clubs kind of, like, push them to just gather in the middle of the street. Is there anything that can be done, like, from the store perspective, to ensure that people that might enter by alcohol don't end up just drinking their beers or, like, uh, spirits in front of our place? Uh, Mr. Tuma, yeah, I, uh, go ahead. Hi, sorry. I, uh, Ms. Sarah, sorry. Um, with that point, uh, there is a pattern if you might have noticed with these people is if there are, there are close premises and when they're waiting in queue or if they are drinking in a, in a, in a pub or clubs or anywhere, as soon as they see a quiet place, a closed shop or anywhere, they like to go and gather there, then, then they leave the glasses of whatsoever and he's the same one meeting and xyz. Once the shop is open, we will make sure that there'll be no gathering in front of our shop. First, secondly, people, we, we, we, we won't allow anyone walking out with an open bottle or, or, or a glass, or open glass, uh, in and out in our premises. Thirdly, the, the format of our business is a little different, not later, it's, it's way more different than, than this clubs and all. The thing is like people buy, they go and drink at their places, particularly on weekends, they want to go to friend's house or like that, they go indoors and drink it. Whereas this clubs and things, they open till two o'clock and I remember you mentioned after midnight till two o'clock, you hear them shouting screaming, but by that time, we'll be close and go home. It's, it's, it's upon those pubs and things to, to take extra measures. But from our side, I can, I can, I can assure you that we will breathe this, this fantasy shop, the same way we're treating over not good shop and no more gatherings allowed outside the shop, uh, no more open glass or open bottles in or out from the shops. And, and, and as I said, all of my train staff will be coming there initially to make sure that there'll be no nuisance. And once the customers see the pattern of not making nonsense, nuisance in front, in, inside or outside the shop, they, they, they won't create it. So from the beginning, this is what, this is how I, this is what I believe and this is what I put in practice in my, both of my shops. Initially, at, at the very beginning stage, very young stage of shop, we told it no nonsense from anyone. Regardless how much money is spending, it's not about money. It's about my people living in the area, whom I'm looking for the support on day to day basis. So we know after money that people walking in, oh, it's a big group walking in, 10 people walking, they're spending 50 quid or 100 quid. Now it doesn't work like this with me, to be honest. Because the more business, this is my perspective of learning business. The more business, the more revenue I generate is from the residential people who leave their closer to my shop. We're going to use our, our, our, our shop on day to day basis. Not people who are walking in on weekend and creating cares and things. So from the beginning, we will make sure that there'll be no gatherings, not allowed at all. And, and gradually, this will become a pattern when people won't get there in front of our shop, because they will come to know that, oh, no, do not stand in front of the shop and make noise and shout and create cares. That's not the tactic I have used. And it worked for me, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, to me, as long as there are the right mechanisms in place to ensure that there are no gatherings and, you know, like I can live in a civil street, that I'm, you know, I have no opposition towards the license. We will try our best, our best. And as I mentioned, you will, if we come there, you will see the staff. We have our very well trained, well behaved. And we told it no nonsense, to be honest. And that's my way of serving my community, that because I'm running business here, my people should not get disturbed, particularly after a certain time of the day. No. Thank you. And I'm pleased to hear that, the dialogue that we just heard. That's, that's, that's quite pleased to me. I was going to say, I'm not sure what the, Ms. Panjetti, if we wanted to, I thought there might be a conversation that someone in the council, I don't think it's necessarily even a licensing issue, but needs to have about what's already going on, on the streets. So I'm going to ask if, if I could be put in touch, maybe after the meeting, just to, to maybe follow up in some way with you, not about this application, but about the issues that you're already having. Thank you. So, so, unless there, well, Councillor Jeffress, do you have any, any more questions now? And I'm seeing nothing from Mr Bishop either. So, unless there are any other points, I think, I think we've heard all the stuff that we need to hear. I'm looking around here. Great. So, so thank you. So, so that concludes this part of the meeting. The decision, reasons and any legal advice given during the subcommittee's discussion, does inform the decision will be confirmed in writing together with information about any rights of appeal within five working days. But I wanted to thank everyone that's attended, for giving up your time to come and help this committee do its job. Thank you very much, everybody.

Good evening. Welcome to this meeting of the licensing subcommittee, which will be held in a hybrid format. This hearing will be considered an application for a new premises license for battery food and wine, which is 42, battery rise, London, S.W. 11, 1, E.E. in the 11 award. As we're appearing virtually, you know, bear with us if we have any issues. My name is Councillor McLeod. I'm the chair of the licensing subcommittee. And I now invite the members of the subcommittee to introduce themselves. And today, we only have two members, myself and Councillor Jefries. >> Good evening, everyone. I'm Councillor James Jefries for Thames Field Board. >> Thank you. And the officers present are Caroline Sharkey, who's the licensing manager, who's appearing remotely, a legal adviser who is also appearing remotely. And with me here is Michael Flowers, who's in person. Because we're using this hybrid method, I ask anyone who speaks to introduce themselves before they speak each time and to remember to mute themselves after speaking. We may have ‑‑ Councillor, do you want to introduce the applicant as well? I'm so sorry. Apologies. Thank you. Speaking for ‑‑ oh, yes, okay. Sorry. And we have the ‑‑ how do you tell the camera and things? I tried once and it's just ‑‑ how do you do it? >> Are you talking to me, Mr. Harris? It's gone. >> We can see you and hear you now. You can see you now. >> Oh, hi. I'm so sorry. That's okay. >> Sorry. I'm talking to myself. My name is ‑‑ I'm talking ‑‑ I'm so sorry. >> No, no, you're perfectly ‑‑ you're perfectly ‑‑ you're exactly the right time because I was just introducing you to the meeting. So you ‑‑ it's perfectly correct time. I'm just saying that we have you here speaking for the applicants. And your name is Vijay Tumar. Is that correct? Yes, please. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Are there any declarations of either pecuniary or vegetable or non‑rigitable interests in any of the matters to be discussed at this meeting that an expert for myself and Councillor jeffries and no for me? Nothing for me. >> Thank you. Okay. So we're now to consider the application for a new premises license in respect of the premises known as Battersea Food and Wine, 42 Battersea Rise, London SW11EE in the Lavender Ward. The subcommittee will hear the case as a discussion with the maximum time of five minutes for each party to say they're part. Now ‑‑ yeah, and now I'm going to go to our licensing manager, Caroline Sharkey, who will present the reports. >> Thank you, Chair. Mindful you've read the paper, work in front of you. So I'll just give you a summary of some pertinent points for you to consider tonight. This is a premises license and it is submitted by Battersea Food and Wine Limited. They are seeking to sell alcohol for consumption of the premises between 7 a.m. until midnight and then from Sunday through to Thursday, 7 a.m. until two, the following day on Fridays and Saturday. They initially asked for the premises closing times from 6 a.m. until midnight, Sunday through Thursday, and 6 a.m. until 8 a.m. the following day of Fridays and Saturday. During the application, it was advertised as required by law and the copies of the applications were sent to the responsible authority. During the 28 day consultation period, we received a representation from the Metropolitan Police who raised concerns that granting the application in its initial form would undermine the prevention of crime and disorder licensing objectives. The police then requested a reduction in the hours applied for. The police also requested for further conditions to be added to the license if it were to be granted. And this was CCTV security incidents and not serving alcohol in single cans and also the requested for signage regarding patrons leaving the premises and area quietly. The applicant chair agreed to reduce the hours for the sale of alcohol for consumption of the premises and he reduced him from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. on Sundays, 8 a.m. until midnight on Monday through to Wednesday, 8 a.m. until one a.m. the following day on Thursday's Fridays and Saturdays and the opening hours, he changed him from 6 a.m. on Sundays to 11 p.m., 6 a.m. until midnight, Monday through to Wednesday and then 6 a.m. until one a.m. the following day on Thursday's through to Sunday. When the applicant agreed this chair, they pleased with through their representation. During the 28 days, we also received one relevant objections from persons leaving near the property and they were concerned that granting the license would undermine public nuisance, crime and disorder and the protection from children from harm as licensing objectives. They are concerned. We're relating to patrons, intoxicated patrons and disorderly behavior in the area, excessive alcohol consumption. They've referred to other premises, but I'm sure the licensing a legal advisor will advise you, Chair, on what you can accept in terms of issues happening at other premises. They've also complained about litter, broken bottles in relation to crime and disorder and also public disorder. This is this representation chair, as far as I'm aware, it's not been withdrawn and this is the matter that you've got to consider tonight in addition to the agreed measures that the applicant has put forward. In addition to this chair, the applicant did volunteer in the operation, share your part of the application, other measures to promote the licensing objectives and these measures are produced in appendix say of the report. This is produced on pages 7 to 12 of the agenda. The licensing subcommittee tonight may modify these conditions if they consider such steps appropriate after hearing all the evidence tonight and with a view to promoting the licensing objectives. The options available to the committee tonight are either to grant the application to modify any conditions if they're minded to grant it or to reject the application. And this is the application as I understand it, Chair. I'm happy to answer any questions or points of clarification at this stage. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ms Sharkey. I go to the subcommittee. Any questions at this stage? Not at this stage, but I think when we come back on to discuss it, be good to cover a few points. Good stuff, yeah. Thank you. It's the same from me. Okay, so in that case, in that case, I invite the applicant. Sorry, sorry, Mr Bishop. Sorry to interrupt, Councillor. I just thought through you, I'd ask a quick question, which is assists. I've noticed in appendix B that there's a reference to 10am as opposed to 10pm and I'm assuming that's just typographical. Good. No worries. Thanks. That's particularly sharp. I'd thank you. Sorry, and I will just confirm for the record. We do now have the representation, Sarah Parr in the meeting. So, Sarah, you'll have an opportunity to speak after the applicant has, but welcome to the meeting. Thank you. And indeed, I reiterate that. Welcome. Thank you for giving up time to help us do what we do here. Okay, so now I invite the applicant to address the subcommittee. Vijay Tumar, who's a representative for the applicant who's appearing remotely. Welcome to Tumar. What I'd ask is that you have five minutes, you don't need to take them all. If you just explain for us, I guess why you want this license and how you respond. It'd be particularly helpful if you say, if you'd let us know how you'd respond to some of the worries of your neighbour as expressed in the papers that you would have been sent. So, yes, if you can speak for about five minutes, that'd be great. Well, first of all, thank you, everyone, for taking time out for today's meeting. My name is Vijay. A little bit of background about me. I own two places involved with one on North Court Road, one on 11 to Hill. Those two shops are off license operating in the same manner which we applied for on battery rise. It's been eight years, I'm into this retail business, running my own business. And it's been 15 years, I'm into retail industry. I do consider the community where I operate, where our other shops businesses are operating. We do consider a community place a big part. And when initially, for the North Court shop, when I applied for a license, a couple of years back, we had 11 representation, we had it. I can tell you, very honestly, that the people who oppose the license, they are our regular customers. They are really thankful that we are here in this area, serving our community. Regarding the noise pollution or broken bottles and things which has gained my attention, the pattern which I have noticed in my retail career is when the shops are closed, it becomes a little place for people. You cannot stop people. Once the shop opens, when the businesses are open in a high street or in the street or anywhere, it becomes less nuisance because people are afraid to do so in front of shop people or business owners or because they are staff. They are people coming in and out. So I can tell me, sir, that we as the retailers do take these things very seriously looking after our people, community and all. We have really good knowledge, good experience in this field, how to handle the other type of nuisance, including noise pollution and any other things. We do not serve any single cans about six person and things. We do take this into consideration. And it is a proven tracker record. If I consider both of my premises as a proven tracker record, we have never been in trouble with our community, with other people. We go to schools around in North Dakota Road where we have school children coming in and out. I do not think so many of us are in practice, but we personally practice anyone under 14 years of age. We do not even sell energy drink. This is how strict we are in operating because we like to look after the community because we are getting support for community. And this is the thing we in exchange, we look after our community. Anyone under 14, that's not even by law. We do practice anyone under 14 or under 30. We do not sell even energy drinks. Forget about selling alcohol or waves or any other things. So this is our contribution towards the community. So that is all I can say. We have proven tracker record of not being in trouble in spite of running two different shops and very close to each other. Thank you. That is really helpful. You will have more time because I am sure once the residents have questions. That is really helpful. I will look over to my colleagues. Do you have any questions? No, not at this point. I do hear from the resident and that might put some weight on to these questions. One, I am glad to hear that things seem to be going well in your other stores. In this store, to mitigate the fears that the residents sort of outlayed, what sort of staffing will be in the store late at night? I know you are saying that people are less likely to litter if a store is open because there is a presence there. Do you have staff that will be looking outside of the store and making sure that there is no problem? Yes. Initially, I planned my train staff from Lockhart shop. I am going to put them to learn the better because they are experienced, they are trained in every aspect of running retail business like this. So this is our initial plan to dissolve into the community, to make our people welcome and safe as well at the same time. So all of the staff will be trained. There will be no new staff. At any point of time, we will have at least three members of staff which makes a safer place to shop and things. Last night, in our Lockhart shop, we have at least three to four staff until midnight. Thank you. That is helpful. I am just noticing. I have just noticed the resident has dropped off, I think, that she has probably had issues with her technology. I am kind of keen for her to hear this part of the conversation. Welcome back. I saw you were having technical issues. Sarah, you did not miss very much. You cut off, I think, and we sort of virtually paused after that. So you have not missed very much. I was just asking the applicant to say something about the staff that would be present at the store to mitigate some of the concerns that you had about problem drinkers outside and things like that. If there are still no questions from the committee, I think what I will do now is go to the resident who is making a representation. Sarah Panzachi, are you able to join everything that technology words are? I think you are on mute if you are speaking. I can see that you have got a sign. I am muted. No. No, she is. Oh. Ms. Panzachi, are you? I am not sure if you can hear us, but we cannot hear you. There is a muted sign on you, so I do not know if you are speaking. That explains, which makes it a bit awkward. I am pausing for a bit because I am hoping she is just about to rejoin. We are giving a minute for her to rejoin. We can carry on regardless, but obviously I would very much like to have her concerns addressed. Okay. She will try to rejoin now. We did warn about possible technical issues. Okay. I will have a second. I will have a second. I will have a second. I will have a second. Hello. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Thank you for persevering. I am not sure how far you heard up to. I heard everything. I have an issue with my last clip so I had to connect with my phone. We are glad you have. Thank you. What I was saying is if you are able, it will be really good now for just a few minutes up to five minutes for you to explain what your concerns are. I do not know if you have a chance to look at any of the information that has gone out from the applicant talking about how they are going to try and address some of the police's concerns and those have now been put to address. Just a few minutes explaining why this concerns you. My camera should be working as well now. It is. We can see you. Thank you. Thanks a lot for inviting me. I think the concern that I have is not just related to myself as a homeowner, but I think we submitted it also with our neighbors. It is not as much related to the presence of an off-licence, but it is more related to the current situation that we are living on the street. We are afraid it is going to get potentially worse with the presence of an off-licence. I want to summarize a bit our stance at the moment. We currently have two main bars that are open until 2am. One is called Tequila Mockingbird. The other one is called Girlfriend. I think recently changed to Arbar. Below our place there is Indian moments, which is a restaurant which does not have an off-licence. It is allowing people to bring their own alcohol in. If any of you would pass by our street in a random weekend between midnight and 2am, you would probably understand why we are raising, let's say, this concern. Because really often what happens is we find our street full of vomit, full of people who are getting into fights because of intoxication of alcohol. Really often I open the door if I am living at midnight and there are people just urinating out of our door. You can just imagine the smell in the morning. We have been raising quite a lot of complaints specifically to Tequila Mockingbird. They have been trying as much as possible to move the people and ensure that the people are not grouping out of their premise. As a consequence, what ends up happening is that a lot of these groups of young people end up not staying in front of the clubs but kind of grouping in front of our place or in general on the street, not in front of one specific premise. Because they often are drunk and they are not allowed to enter these clubs. They end up getting their own drinks either from Tesco. There is a Tesco quite close to where we live or other places and then they just drink on the street and they continue basically like their night in the middle of the street. Sometimes the bouncers from the different bars are obviously like kind of ensuring that these people are moving out, especially if they are being loud, because they know that we have been complaining in a broken way. Sometimes they just let it go. We have been living in this building for the past three years. To be honest, we are missing. I'm really sorry Ms Panjachi. We just lost the other Councillor and I think by regulation we need to have at least two of us in the room. Hold on for a second while he rejoices. Sorry, I know you were in mid-flow but I didn't want to. No, no, don't worry. What is the correct pronunciation of your surname? Panzaki. Panzaki, thank you. Hold on. Okay. I think he is rejoining presently. Technology is brilliant when it works and a nightmare when it doesn't sound sorry. I think he is having to change devices, which is what the hold up is. I think he is having to change. Welcome back, Councillor Jeffress. We pause. Yes, thank you for rejoining. We pause because we can't carry on without there being at least two of us here, so you haven't missed anything. You have got about a minute and a half left Ms Panzaki, so I lost the track. Just to close the summary of where I stand at the moment. We started investigating selling our property. What I found concerning is the fact that two of our offers actually fell through because some of the people that visited the apartment wanted to visit the area at night and they obviously happened to pass by during the weekend and they found it quite concerning to see how the situation is at night specifically because we were talking about families with kids. I think this summarises more or less what my concern is. It's a concern which, again, it's not necessarily related to the off-licence itself, but to me, adding up another store which sells alcohol at night in a street where during weekends we already have an extra amount of young people completely intoxicated. It's not necessarily going to help the area to be evaluated or valued the way I think it should be. If there is any way that Mr Vijay can plan towards that, then I'm more than happy to listen to it. This is where I stand at the moment. Thank you. That's very helpful. I'm very well explained to be honest. Councillor Jeffries, do you have any questions for the resident? If I could, sorry, thank you very much for your comments and completely appreciate where you're coming from. It would be helpful just to understand, is there something that's gotten worse over a period of time, or has it always been a problem at a similar level ever since you've been there? I don't know if there's a more general issue in terms of the licences of all of the other premises and the enforcement around that as opposed to the specific problem with the news agent that we're talking about. Yeah, good question. I think that it's definitely become more visible over the past, I would say, a year, so once a month. But again, I need to be honest, we've been living there since, like, for three years, or like we've been living in that part in three years. Thank you. From my point of view, I guess, first of all, I'm sorry that you're having to go through what it sounds like. You're having to go through, and that's not nice. I agree with Councillor Jefries, it feels like the council or something needs to be done to alleviate that. If there's a problem that's building up, then something needs to be done to sort it out. I know that you're worried that it's an accumulative worry that you seem to have. There's just another thing that's going to add to the problems you're already having, rather than any particular, you know, not wanting this shot particularly, or having any reasons to think that this particular applicant would be a bad licence holder. Yeah, it's not related, as I said, at the beginning, like, to the shop itself is more about the situation on the street. I understand. I am going to go back to the applicant in a minute, but just so I can get an idea, do you have any, and it's hard for me, I guess it'll be hard for you to say, but what sort of things might put your mind at rest, what sorts of actions, do you have any ideas about what sorts of things could make you think, okay, this isn't going to be bad. This is going to be something that, you know, this is an establishment that's going to be in my area and will add to the area, rather than making more of a problem, anything along those lines. And again, I'm, you know, I'm not asking you to invent things, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that Wiedre mentioned something at the beginning, which is, like, just keeping an eye on the people who are, let's say, purchasing in the shop. To me, that is fundamental, because, again, what I see is, like, people who are already intoxicated, getting intoxicated even more, and then this is what is causing them basically, like, vomiting, urinating, et cetera, et cetera in the area. So I think it's probably like also in the license holder interest to ensure that whoever works the nights in the store, make sure that there are no groups of people in front of the store, just basically like drinking alcohol and stopping on the street. And yeah, that order is kept in front of the premise and, you know, like, around the premise, specifically at night. Thank you. That's really helpful. If there are no more questions for you, I'm looking at my colleague. If there are no more questions for you, I might. I have a, I'd like to go back to the applicant and put some things to him. If that's okay. Councillor Jeffries, is that all right? Great stuff. Okay. Thank you again, but please stay on the calls. It might be that I want to come back to you about what's said now. Mr. Tumar, can I, you've heard what the resident said to my mind. She sounds very, she doesn't sound as if she has animosity towards the shop or anything like that. It's just a genuine concern. Is there any more that you can say about, about how you can, how you, how you're assuaged, those concerns? Like, for instance, if, if there are young people in the area who are drunk, you know, is your shop going to be serving them and adding to that, how do you make sure that when people leave your shop, they're leaving in an orderly fashion, just talk a little bit about that sort of info. And so before you do, I can see that our legal advisor has his hand up. So I might be asking you the wrong thing. Let me just check. Not, not at all. Not at all. I was just going to add that, of course, selling alcohol to somebody who's already intoxicated is a criminal offense. And Mr. Tumar will be fully and very clearly aware of that from his other two premises. But it goes without saying that if you've got somebody who's drunk coming in for more alcohol, you can't serve him. Thank you. That's helpful. Mr. Tumar, I'll allow you to respond. Yes. I leave upstairs on the North Court shop. So I do feel Ms. Cyrus' concern, to be honest. I literally related what she might be going through, whereas I haven't faced those difficulty in here, because we have been taking steps since we came here, particularly selling alcohol and things. We are very, very strict. I remember one of the council officers is the ban, if I'm not wrong. He was, there were two officers who visited our shop twice, I guess. He was very, very impressed, and his colleague was very impressed, the way we take street action, selling alcohol and things. Nobody puts it in practice, as far as I know, because I go, we go six, seven shops in my group, all of my friends run this offline business. But we put it in practice. We have kept an ultraviolet light under the counter, which, you see, there are so many fake audies nowadays in the market, young kids are bringing in. But if you put under the UV light, you can figure out whether it's fake or genuine. We practice this. All of my staff members have the application where they can check the path hologram, the citizenship card, when they bring the ID, we scandal the ID. We put the numbers, and the app will tell you straight away whether it's a fake one or the legit the right one. So this is what we've been practicing all of my staff. They have application in their mobile phones. There are two ultraviolet lights underneath aqua accountes on the both chills. So we do take strict, you know, so we don't allow it. I go a 20-year-old daughter, and I do understand, I leave upstairs of the shop, so I do understand myself as concerned, and to look after the community as well. Secondly, in our battery shop, I have put the door which opens inside, because I've noticed the pavement is smaller compared to my North Court shop compared to my lavender shop. So not to create that nieces, otherwise I would have kept a sliding one, which every other shops have it. But due to the nature of my business, I've taken into consideration beforehand when I started building up, the door is opening inside the premises. Secondly, as far as I remember, Miss Sarah noticed that putting things outside the shop, which are going to, you know, make the pavement more congested, it will be difficult for pedestrians to walk and think difficult for residential people to come out and walk and things. None of my shop, we don't put anything outside of a shop premises. I've worked for Tesco's for 10 years, less a little less than 10 years, and I've resigned as a store manager. So I do understand the value of retailing the things you bring to community. We are not any of the off licenses you might have seen in past few years. We are almost similar, delivering serving community, almost similar to this big company. We do follow stick actions, stick actions. We do not serve alcohol to any drunk person, any people walking in. We have more than two, three staff. After 10 o'clock, one of my staff stays by the door. I'm paying extra wages to do this. Just to make sure that when people walking in, they see there is someone standing by the door. So before they think to create any nuisance or shout or anything, they get that feeling, oh, you know, there is someone standing by the door. So this kind of measures we have taken from our sidewalk before anyone walk into us and tells us to do certain things. But saying this, any suggestion would be welcome from Miss Sarah, to be honest, because we're going to be neighbours. If any suggestions would be very, very welcome, and we will take into consideration to make our community safer. Thank you. That's very helpful. Sorry, Mr Bishop. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt again. It was just again to help the committee, Mr Sumer. Can you just confirm if you have any attenuation measures that you've taken in terms of the ceiling or anything like that to help out? Does that help? In terms of, sorry, I missed something. Any attenuation? So noise, lessening measures or anything like that. Yes, we have the noise-cancelling ceilings on the top, and we have the another ceiling which I started building up, we're putting, is a noise cancellation ceiling, probably the word would you call it. But yes, the noise is not going to go out, and the door is going to be closed all the time. So if anyone is inside talking, any customers, if I got more than two, five, ten customers at one point of time, the door will be closed. We're not going to keep the sliding door, keep it open for until we operate. Yeah, okay. Thank you. Thank you. And something you kind of touched on there a little bit, which, if this licence is granted, and you've kind of talked about this with your other stores and it's something I am quite keen on, what will you do to keep the lines of communication open with local residents, so that if any local residents are having issues with how you're doing business, that they've got a clear, I think before they come to the council or talk to the police, they should be able to come and talk to you. How would that happen? We, all of my staffs are highly trained, we are friendly, and we treat people that they like to be treated. So the atmosphere which we created, I'm sorry I'm going off track, but I would like to invite myself to our Northcott shop, if she could time on weekend or any time, but we have created that environment where my people, my customers, my people are really, really happy with those. You can see the review online we're getting for our Northcott shop. It itself says that I don't have to prove, but I will prove once I'm there, but we are one of those people who love to, because I live in this area, I live on top of my Northcott shop, I do understand the locality, the people, the value of communication, so any suggestions, anything are more than welcome. We do have people working in, my customers, regular customers, working in, they do suggest us, till now, they do suggest us, oh can you do this, can you do that, this, this, this, and we straight away put into implementation, we just, we just don't hold it back and think, oh you know what, no, if my people are not happy, we do it. That's very good to hear. We are open for changes to be honest. Maybe you can exchange numbers or something in due course. Yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah, in terms of suggestions, I know that some license holders, for instance, would have a phone number somewhere very visible in the store, that if someone might not want to complain at that time at night, but they have a direct way of getting in touch with you, basically, and saying this is what we're experiencing, that might be an easy way of allowing people to get in touch with you if they need to, but certainly, yeah, that sounds good. I'm going to ask Council of Jeffries, and then I was going to check in with the resident just to see, just for we can get an idea of what she thinks of what she's heard, just so that that'll be helpful in her positions. Council of Jeffries, did you have any follow-up questions? No, I don't have anything further to add, I think, Council on the Cloud, you've made the point there about communications really well. I suppose that might sit technically outside of the legal framework of the license itself, but it sounds like the applicant is raking to facilitate that. So, yeah, if we can sort of take that as red, that there will be an open door, and a door going inwards. That would be really positive, I think. Thank you. Ms. Panjati, can I, if you're still, I think you are, can I just get an idea of how you're feeling about what you've heard so that we can take into our decisions later? Yeah, absolutely. So, again, I just want to reiterate the fact that my entire point is not around this for itself, so I trust that, you know, like Mr. Dietrich know how to do his job properly, and he has the experience to do that. Again, my point is more about what are we going to do to ensure that we make that street a safer place? So, one of the points that I had raised was actually like, how can we avoid gatherings of people with alcohol on the street, specifically like in the moments, they probably like try to get into some of the clubs, they're rejected from the clubs, so the clubs kind of like push them to just gather in the middle of the street. Is there anything that can be done, like from the store perspective, to ensure that people that might enter by alcohol don't end up just drinking their beers or like spirits in front of our place? Mr. Tuma, yeah, go ahead. Sorry, with that point, there is a pattern, if you might have noticed with these people, if they are close to Mises, and when they're waiting in Q or if they are drinking in the pub or clubs or anywhere, as soon as they see a quiet place, a closed shop or anywhere, they like to go and gather there, then they leave their glasses of whatsoever and need to save one meeting and exercise it. Once the shop is open, we will make sure that there will be no gathering in front of our shop first, secondly, people, we won't allow anyone walking out with an open bottle or a glass, an open glass in and out in our premises. Thirdly, the format of our business is a little different, not later, it's way more different than this clubs and all, the thing is like people buy, they go and drink at their places, particularly on weekends, they want to go to a friend's house or like I said, they go indoors and drink it, whereas this clubs and things, they open till two o'clock and I remember you mentioned after midnight till two o'clock you hear them shouting screaming, but by that time we'll be close and go home, it's upon those pubs and things to take extra measures, but from our side I can assure you that we will read this baptism shop the same way we're treating over a lot good shop, and no more gatherings allowed outside the shop, no more open glass or open bottles in and out from the shops and as I said, all of my train staff will be coming there initially to make sure that there will be no nuisance and once the customers see the pattern of not making nonsense, nuisance in front, inside or outside the shop, they won't create it. So from the beginning, this is what I believe and this is what I put in practice in both of my shops, initially at the very beginning stage, very young stage of the shop, we told it no nonsense from anyone, regardless how much money is spending, it's not about money, it's about my people living in the area whom I'm looking for the support on day to day basis, so we know after money that people walking in, oh it's a big group walking in, 10 people walking, they're spending 50 quid or 100 quid, now it doesn't work like this with me to be honest, because the more business, this is my perspective of learning business, the more business, the more revenue I generate is from the residential people who leave there closer to my shop, we're going to use our shop on day to day basis, not people who are walking in on weekend and creating cares and things, so from the beginning, we will make sure that there'll be no gatherings, not allowed at all, and gradually, this will become a pattern when people won't gather in front of our shop because they will come to know that, oh no, do not stand in front of the shop and make noise and shout and create cares, that's how the tactic I have used and it worked for me to be honest. I mean to me as long as there are the right mechanisms in place to ensure that there are no gatherings and you know like I can live in a civil street and I'm you know I have no position towards the license. We will try our best and as I mentioned you will if we come there, you will see the staff, we have a very well trained, well behaved and we told it no nonsense to be honest and that's my way of serving my community that because I'm running business here, my people should not get disturbed particularly after a certain time of the day. Laura. Thank you. I'm pleased to hear that the dialogue that we just heard, that's quite pleased to me. I was going to say I'm not sure what the, with Miss Panjetti, if we wanted to, I thought there might be a conversation that someone in the council, I don't think it's necessarily even a licensing issue, but needs to have about what's already going on on the street, so I'm going to ask if I could be put in touch maybe after the meeting just to maybe follow up in some way with you, not about this application but about the issues that you're already having. Thank you. So unless, well, Councillor Jeffress, do you have any more questions now? And I'm seeing nothing from Mr Bishop either. So unless there are any other points, I think, I think we've heard all the stuff that we need to hear. I'm looking around. Yeah, great. So thank you. So that concludes this part of the meeting. The decision, reasons and any legal advice given during the subcommittee's discussion, there's informed the decision will be confirmed in writing together with information about any rights of appeal within five working days, but I wanted to thank everyone that's attended for giving up your time to come and help this committee do its job. Thank you very much, everybody.