Transcript

chair of the Climate and Ecology Policy and Accountability Committee. Before we begin, there's some housekeeping points to cover. This meeting is being live streamed on YouTube. By taking part, you're consenting to be recorded. Please can officers introduce themselves before speaking for the first time and would everyone please use their microphones? There are tea, coffee, and biscuits available in the staff kitchen next to the reception and the toilets are on my left hand side behind the screen. You will see your - it says you'll need your security badge, but I think the doors are going to be open. If the fire alarm sounds either continuously or intimately, I will adjourn the meeting. Please leave the meeting in an orderly fashion by the staff fire exit, which is behind me to my rights. Officers will direct you to the assembly point in Riverside Gardens. Let's proceed to the agenda. Apologies for absence. I've got apologies from Laura James, Councillor Laura James, and Councillor Ross Malton. Noted. Great. Declarations of interest. Do members have any declarations of interest? No. Noted. The minutes. Do members agree? The minutes of the meeting held on the 6th of February 2024? Agreed. Thank you, past. Right. Just - thank you. Just I'm going to say a couple of words just before we go on. The actions from the minutes of the last meeting were on Thameswater. We contacted Thameswater again to update us for this meeting, and they haven't come back to us. They said that they would have reports in time for this meeting, but as we know, Thameswater are in - they're quite busy at the moment. Anyway, so they haven't come back to us, which is a shame, because we're going to look at the sustainable drainage systems, which is so interlinked with the sewage system. So that's a shame. Now, I've invited residents, so you will be welcome to speak. There's a resident guest place, because we're being livestreamed. If you want to ask a question, when the chair invites you, then please introduce yourself and press the speak button on the microphone. Thanks very much. Right. Flood risk and adapting to climate change. And shall I hand it over, we've got Jesse Cabostock, Phoebe Stewart, Georgia Turner, and you're going to do flood risk and adaptation. Thank you. Great. Thank you, Chair. So my name is Jessica Bostock. I am the service manager for the Healthy Streets team. I sit in the Highways Division in Public Realm. So today, we're going to break the presentation into three sections. So I'll start with an overview of the flood risk of the borough. Then my colleague, Georgia, will know them, my colleague Phoebe, will go into green in the gray, and Georgia's going to finish with some schemes that we're delivering this year. Okay. Next slide, please, Phoebe. Okay. So a little bit about who manages flood risk in the borough. So there was major flooding in England, Wales, in 2007. And from that, we had the pit review, and then we had a piece of legislation called the Flood and Water Management Act. And that sort of outlined who deals with flooding. We as Hammersmith and Fulham Council are the lead local flood authority. So that means we deal with surface water, so rainwater that falls on the ground, groundwater, so ground water flood risk, and also ordinary water courses of which there are none in Hammersmith and Fulham. So the River Thames is dealt with by the Environment Agency. So they manage the River Thames because that's class as a major water course. And finally, as we spoke about last time we were here, the Thames water in our area manages to assist them and sewer flooding. Thank you, Phoebe. So a little bit about different types of flood risk. So on the screen, we've got the fluvial and tidal flood risk. The map you see there on the left hand side in the centre is worst case scenario. So this is if we had no embankment walls, we didn't have the Thames barrier, and we didn't have all the other different barriers along the Thames and the lee, and all the tributaries of the Thames. This is the scale of flooding that would happen. But of course, we have all those in place. So actually the risk of fluvial and tidal flooding is low in Hammersmith and Fulham. There is a section, so as we join into hounds low, there's about a 50 metre stretch of the river there, which there is no embankment wall, and there is a slight bit of flooding there, but it's the garden. So there's a green space between that and Chiswick maw, that occasionally a high tide does get flooded. Next slide, please. So a little bit about surface water. So the image on the left is some mapping undertaken that shows what would happen at a certain rainfall event. And as you can see, it's sporadic, it's all over the borough, it's just where the low spots are in the borough, we get water ponding. The image at the bottom right, that is about drainage capacity within London. So you can see quite clearly that Hammersmith and Fulham is bright red, the same as over towards Newham and Walton Forest. And this is where there is pressure within the sewer. So this is where Thameswater have identified the issues with sewer capacity. Next slide, please. Thank you. So a little bit what we're doing as a borough. So following the flood event of 2021 July, we have started a group. So originally it was based around flood risk, but we've kind of grown it to incorporate climate adaptation now. And that is an internal group that we get officers from education, housing, climate change, highways, emergency planning, and we meet to discuss flood risk issues, but also adaptation to climate change. We do work with other what we call risk management authorities. So those are our neighboring boroughs, because water doesn't go by the boundary, should we say it crosses across boroughs. Also the environment agency in Thameswater. So every quarter we have a meeting, so we're in a partnership called North Central. So that's with five of the boroughs of Camden, Islington, Kensington and Chelsea, City Westminster and ourselves. So all officers meet. And there we have people from the environment agency, Thameswater, sometimes London councils come as well. So we discuss flood risk within our partnership area. And that also encourages a bit of partnership working between boroughs that we try to undertake as well. Other things we're doing. So we do have key policies within our local plan, CC3 and CC4, related to flood risk and sustainable drainage. So we encourage that through new developments and make sure that new development adheres to those policy. In terms of highways, we have enhanced Gully cleansing program. So we have adapted that over the years. We found that now we have a lot fewer inquiries related to block gullies, for instance, and we have reduced our Gully repairs. So we had a bit of a backlog of Gully repairs. We've been slowly reducing that and that's now down to a good level. We are starting to try to undertake more community projects. We're trying to start our first flood action group in the borough as well. And then we do provide information on flood risk residents. So we have a nice rainwater guide. I think we've got a slide further later on in the pack about that as well. And then yeah, we're trying to roll out such projects which Georgia will pick up on later. Thank you. And then on top of that, we do have our flood risk action plan. So this is an action plan that comprises, we've had to undertake many different documents over the years through legislation, some we've done our own. And we have grouped all of those actions together. And this is now quite a synthesised plan that we undertake. And we follow. So we have key themes around the statutory duties we have to do. And then things about collaboration and communication. So for instance, communicating, collaborating with our other risk management authorities is in there. Maintenance and then our duty for emergency planning as well. So when flood events happen. Thank you. So some of the things we are working on. So we do have a map with all of our sites on. We're trying to refresh this so residents can get information about what sustainable drainage projects are out there. And also we try to put on their what's up and coming as well. So residents can see that along with additional consultation that would happen. We are looking to update the website as well. So it's a bit more interactive and there's a bit more information in terms of what residents and communities can do. And then, yeah, we have this wonderful little living with rainwater guide that we try and promote wherever possible as well. And now I'll pass over to Phoebe to go on about green in the grey. Thank you very much. My name is Phoebe Shaw Stewart. I'm the ecology lead and I sit within the climate change and ecological emergency unit. And I'm going to talk to you a bit about greening the grey. So first of all, what does that even mean? So when we're talking about grey infrastructure, we're referring to things such as the railway lines, the roads, things beneath that, so the pipes and the cables, as well as the kind of very obvious buildings and structures that you might think of. And what we're looking to do with the greening, the grey is to actually reduce the amount of it where possible and where it has to be. Obviously, we have to have some grey infrastructure. We'd like to adapt it if possible in order to increase the amount of green infrastructure we have available. And green infrastructure is a fancy term for kind of what you might expect any green things to be around about the borough. So that includes our parks and our green spaces and of course the gardens and the woodlands that we have around about in the parks as well, but as well as that also the blue spaces, so the rivers and the wetlands that we have. And then along trees, we can have the streets trees as well and the planters that we have along there and then actually green roofs and walls are on the structures themselves. And so why is it that we are looking to green the grey? Of course, if we increase the amount of green infrastructure we have in an area, then it improves the look and the feel and the value of the area. But what we're doing is more than just about that. What we're looking to do green infrastructure when installed correctly can help to clean the air in the borough and that's particularly important in urban spaces. It can help to reduce flood risk and it can also create cool spaces in the heat of the summer. So all of that sort of combines to create a really resilient city that can accommodate a growing population for those who live here and also want to live here, but also adapt to the effects of climate change that we are seeing and will increasingly see. And of course, we are needing to think of a suite of creative solutions that can help to adapt as land pressure increases and greening the grey is one of those. So one of the things that you might see around and about, and this will be touched on a bit more later with Georgia as well, are green verges. There are examples throughout the borough. There's something that we can help do in a place where it's difficult to find new spaces for greenery often when there's such a pressured space that we have. And so the picture there is along the New King's Road and that was, I think, the first stretch of it that was installed last summer. When we're putting in these green bars, they can help to contribute towards ecological corridors. So they're often planted in kind of wide pavement areas where there are trees anyway. And so by putting in the green verges as well, we're actually really improving the quality of that green corridor and helping to link up green spaces, allowing wildlife to be better connected throughout the borough. And of course, it also creates a permeable surface that takes away the impermeable surface that was there previously, allowing water to drain through. And it increases biodiversity. So those pictures of flowers, which is a couple that I snapped on my way past though on the other day, which was great. Suds, so just mentioned Suds, the sustainable drainage systems that we can have. And there are multiple opportunities throughout the borough and numerous examples of successfully completed projects. So the pictures there, if we stop at the start at the top left, we've got the dolphin road and then Mirabelle Road is a tree pit and the top right at the bottom is a sensory guard and it's dark green, which is previously just a kind of plain walk through. So there's really nice sensory planting there. And then Australia Road at the bottom there with the school children. And these projects can provide multiple benefits. So as well as tackling surface water flooding that we talked about before, these particularly green ones help to improve biodiversity. So we can work with the team to make sure we're planting the right things there and also have a really good opportunity to engage the community. So you can see there is community planting at start green and the school children getting involved as well in Australia Road. And so there are many different features can make up Suds. It's quite an umbrella term. So the main thing we want it to look at is having permeable and porous surfaces to make sure the water can drain through. We can think of having swales and ponds and the ponds that are talked about, they might not be there all year round. They might be seasonal, so just in the winter or just after storm events. And that also does have a biodiversity benefit as well. So there are species that are adapted to that kind of living as well. So it's that's really important. There's rainwater harvesting. So we can have things like water butts, which can also help people to water their gardens if they want. But also we can look at things like rainwater harvesting for toilets and large developments and things like that. Green roofs are an important side feature as well and green walls as well. Engineered tree pits to make sure that we can capture water that way and rain gardens as well. So talking more about trees and tree pits, there is a tree strategy that is being developed and is in the final stages. But one of the main aims of that is to increase the canopy cover in the borough. So currently we're at 14% in Hammersmith and Fulham. The London-wide average at the moment is 21%. So the tree strategy lays out the plan to increase that to 16.5% by 2030 with a longer term aim to 23% by 2050. And that gives a really kind of steady way of doing it properly and making sure it's done the right way. From that, this work that's been done, we've found that there are over 27,000 trees in council land. So that includes parks, housing, cemeteries, schools and on highways. And in addition to that, there are over 45,000 trees on privately on land in the borough. So there's a huge opportunity there. And the right tree in the right place again can provide multiple benefits. So the sun's opportunities I talked about before, of course, biodiversity benefits as well, but also cooling spaces. So by casting shade, trees can actually protect the green infrastructure around it, but also the gray infrastructure. So it can have a protective effect on the surrounding area as well. Green roofs are also another opportunity that we talked about before. So of course, that's a sad opportunity, as mentioned, but also a very obvious way of improving increasing biodiversity at a place where otherwise would have been no opportunity before. It also, there can be co-benefits of increased insulation as well for the building when it's done in the right way. And it can and is being rolled out on private and in council buildings. So that's really good to see. And it's becoming more and more normal and easier to work with people to do that. It also can be well combined with PV panels to create what are called biosolar roofs. So then you get the added benefit of the solar panels as well and the energy harvesting. And importantly, as well, we want to work with the residents in the borough. So working in greening the gray projects and particularly green projects in general, it's a really good way to get people involved. We know that over 40% of private gardens in the borough are paved over. So that's a huge opportunity. So we have to try and work with the residents who have those gardens to understand the importance of depaving where possible. But as well as that, there are opportunities on balconies and in small spaces such as windowsills. So we want to make sure that everyone knows they can do something and can get involved to understand the importance of that. Involving residents also has really good benefits on their physical and mental well-being. They might take up a new hobby, but they also kind of connect people to nature in a really important way that we know can be very beneficial. We've had some several years now, very, very successful free tree giveaways, where we give trees away to residents to plant in their gardens. But we do know as well that can be difficult if residents don't have gardens. So we do bulb giveaways and seed giveaways as well so they can be done again in smaller spaces and on balconies as well and windowsills. And we try and engage with events and groups that go around the borough. So whether festivals, we try and make sure we've got a presence, we engage with friends groups and try to help them support them where we can. And yeah, even those who aren't necessarily think that they have a sort of green involvement we try to get involved there to make sure that they can, you know, they can join in where possible and lots of corporate volunteering as well. And now I'll hand over to George to talk about current projects. Thank you. Yes, my name is George Turner. I am the Senior Engineer and the Healthy Streets team, which is in the Highway Department. So are we talking about how we're implementing the green and the grey in specifically the public route? Look aside, please. So what we've got here is a list of our upcoming projects for this financial year 2024 to 2025. I've got a couple of slides coming up which goes into a bit more detail about some of the projects but for this slide, I'll sort of summarize the projects themselves. So for Illbrook Common, that is a deep haven scheme in the park itself. We have which has now been completed with planting done last week. Westville Road, that is a scheme where we're looking at deep haven pedestrianised space outside of school. So that involves some sustainable drainage. We're at the stage where we're doing sort of conceptual designs, followed by King Street. That is also another sustainable drainage scheme specifically on the junction of Beaver Lane. Again, that is also in a concept design stage. We have Addison Gardens. This is sustainable drainage outside of school. Again, conceptual design. We have Edith Road. This is another sustainable drainage scheme in the Carriage Way. And we're again at conceptual design on this, followed by Newkins Road, which we have just completed. So this was a wildflower turf, which you've seen some photos of. And this was the sort of final phase where we were depaving over fairly wide pavement. Marine Field Road is a subs project being worked on with a school. And again, that's in conceptual design phase. Grove Muse is a traffic calming scheme, but we're specifically trying to design that with green in mind. We are in a detailed design phase with the residents in that case. And finally, we have Life Road. This is a phase of a scheme which has numerous sustainable drainage interventions. Quite a few that Phoebe has mentioned. We are at a detailed design stage on that. So a bit more information about some of the schemes. This is the Elbrooke Common One, which is within the park itself. So this scheme was funded by a couple of different things. We've got a grant from the Mayor of London. We also got it supplemented by Section 106 funding and the recent Green Investment Fund. In this, we looked at de-paving. So on the top left photo, you'll see there was quite a large area of concrete and hard-standing material. And in the top right, you'll see that this was getting removed. The bottom photo is how we expect the project to become realized. So there was a community plant in day last week on Wednesday, which was very successful. And I believe there'll be some further seed planting in the future. The idea is that it will improve the look and feel of the area, make use of perhaps quite an underused area, and of course increases biodiversity and provides that permeable surface that we mentioned. So Westfield Road is a sustainable drainage scheme which is specifically outside of school, Greenside Primary School. This is now being funded by the Green Investment Fund. It is specifically a scheme that was highlighted to us by the local police due to there being a antisocial behaviour in the area. So they have specifically asked that we look at redesign in the space. So the top left is how it looked about a year ago. And the top right and bottom one is some of the first interventions we've been working on. So that has been removing a bench that faced quite tall shrubbery and also removing those shrubs and the top right shows that we did obviously replant with some new ones to improve the area. One thing that we want to do is when we're working on the side schools, we want to show that we can work with them in terms of the design. So that's our focus with this scheme is to go into the school and run workshops with them, but to then go out to the wider community, do a full consultation and make sure we're providing a green community space for everyone. The Kin Street scheme, as I said before, is also a sustainable drainage scheme. So this is being funded in two ways. This is section 106 funding, but also the UK shared prosperity funding. What we're doing here is looking to depave outside the parade of shops. So in between some of the large trees, we're looking to also offer some additional benefits. So that's things like providing extra space for the business deliveries, specifically given them areas of loading base. And this will therefore improve the pedestrian safety along the stretch. You also have a the top right photo you might be able to see. You've got some e-scooters and e-bikes being stored there. What we're hoping to do is sort of create a proper space which would call a micro-mobility hub, which really provides this as a destination to come and use these facilities. Edith Road is again another sustainable drainage scheme. So the photo show hatch-in in a carriage way. So this is typically underused space on side-road junctions. We have secured funding from the Green Investment Fund, and what we would like to do is utilize these spaces by implementing rain gardens. One of the things it will do will obviously improve the look and feel of the road. It will benefit by a diversity, but it will also help influence potential driving behaviour. And again, as mentioned, we are concept designed for this, so all of these will be subject to consultation. Blyph Road is a scheme that we're considering as a green corridor. So there's quite a few phases that we would like to implement with Blyph Road. This is sort of the Green Investment Fund has secured us funding for the phase one of this works. So we're looking at the Dewhurst Road junction, working our way towards the stretch of shops. So here we're looking at multiple different suds interventions, things such as the engineered tree pits, but also depaving some hard-standing area. By doing the engineering tree pits, we can increase the number of trees in this road. And we will be working our way towards the Olympia development, but very much mindful that that's still interesting at the moment. So that's a highlight of some of the schemes we're also doing is working on further schemes across the borough. So something we are doing is the suds opportunity mapping. This is where we are looking across the borough to see what is possible different suds interventions. So as Phoebe has mentioned, there are a range of interventions that we can look at. We're trying to see areas such as the Edith Road where perhaps there's space that's been underutilised, but also flooding hotspots, data like that, that will point us in the right direction. As we're building this opportunity mapping, it's providing us with a portfolio of projects where we can start applying for external funding. So we're very much always on the lookout for any funding pots that become available. And by doing the opportunity mapping, we're preparing those bids for that work. By also scoping the entire borough, we can help with our colleagues. So, for example, our plan maintenance team that work on an annual plan maintenance program every year, but also our capital projects team that work on public realm improvement projects. We can advise them and liaise with them on how they can incorporate green in into all their schemes, and how we can also maximise that throughout. Thank you very much. That's a fantastic presentation from Phoebe. Thank you for that. I've got a couple of questions. I think about suds. I think maybe for the benefit of the layman, as it were, if you could tell us, one of you could tell us a little bit more about suds. I mean, because some of it looks like it looks like paving, as in we can walk on it, but it is porous and permeable. And some of it looks like greenery, and it obviously is porous and permeable, and it has earth. But I wonder if you could just give us a description of can roads be turned into suds? I mean, what is the sort of size of suds? Thank you. Yeah, I'll take that one. So sustainable urban drainage systems. In very simple terms, we are trying to mimic natural drainage. So as you know, we grow up and we learn about the water cycle, and the water goes back into the ground, or it goes evapotranspiration through plants, that's what we're trying to achieve here. Ultimately, we would love water to be infiltrated back into the ground. Obviously, we are an in a London borough, and that can't always be the case with made ground. So what we can do with sustainable drainage is collect the water, and where we can't put it back into the ground, we can slowly release it into the sewer. And by doing that, we then reduce that big flush of water into the sewer, holding it back slightly, and that reduces the risk of flooding within the borough. As Phoebe mentioned, there are lots of different sustainable drainage options. So we've got green roofs, rainwater harvested, and then we have our paving, and unlike conventional drainage, which is a pipe and a drain, this means that, you know, we've got more opportunity to put this in different roads. So it's all parks. It's not one size fits all with sustainable drainage. We have all of these tools that are disposed to try and use. So in terms of hard surfaces, we can either have like block paving, where water goes between the blocks into the ground, and it can be stored in like crate units, or like we have little reservoirs that then we slowly release into the sewer, or if the conditions are right, we'll just let that soak into the ground and go naturally. So we have the blocks, but we also have like sometimes a porous asphalt. So it might look like normal asphalt or a resin material, but actually water can flow through that into the ground as well. So yeah, you are correct. Sometimes it doesn't look like it, but it is. So on a lot of roads, a few years back, I think I mentioned before we did like, Munster Road, Eddiskerm, Greenside, Godolphin, and a few others with permeable paving in the parking bays. And that works really well, because not only does it identify the parking bays quite nicely, they're also at the point with the camera of the road where the water falls. So it's perfect to do sustainable drainage and permeable parking bays in those areas. The issue with that is that permeable surfaces can be quite expensive. The green features are a bit cheaper to do, and also provide more multiple benefits. So where we can, we would rather do green, so rain gardens, engineered tree pits, swales, green roofs, that is our, we'll go there first, and if we can't, we then go down the permeable surface route. Brilliant, thanks for that. And in terms of the new developments that are going up, do we have a sort of a relationship with the developers that they are going to do a percentage of that work for us? Or, I mean, some of us, of course, we were talking about corporate buildings, some of them are owned by the council, such as the big, the big council building that's, that's being renovated. So could you talk about the relationship with developing and how much influence we can have? We have a large influence, which is, which is really good for us. So one of our biggest wins is actually on new development sites, because there's so much opportunity at that stage when they development that site. With one of our policies, we look at the drainage plans they do, they have to reach Greenfield runoff rate. So that means that where now all of the water on that site will just flow into the sewer. They can't do that, they have to reduce the water that flows to the sewer, and they have to do that by delivering sustainable drainage. And they have to go by the London hierarchy of sustainable drainage, which is, first of all, you look to reuse the water, so that's very much harvesting. If you can't do that, you go to green interventions. And then finally, you may have like a tank system within the development site that just holds the water, but we always push for the green interventions first. And for instance, on the town hall site that we're developing now, there is rainwood harvested, and that will go to flush toilets within the town hall. There are rain gardens, and we do push that on development sites, and we do see that as one of our biggest wins. Fantastic. And I think you said some subs can be more expensive than the others. Could you tell us a bit about how you're using the green investment fund? I know it's in the second tranche, which is going to try to raise, I think, five million pounds. But can you talk about the relationship? I don't know if you're financially geared for that. Yeah, I'll take that one. So some of the schemes that we've got for this financial year are being funded by the green investment fund. So we would put a bid together and obviously make sure that it meets the criteria of the fund itself. So we have on that list, we have Westville Road with a budget of £200,000. Then we have Edith Road with also a budget of £200,000. Marine Field Road has £70,000 and Blife Road £100,000. So that's what we've managed to secure in terms of the green and the grey in the public realm. Thanks very much for that. I'm sure there's lots of questions, so I'm going to hand over to Jose Queslawa Thonsai. Brilliant, thank you, Chair, and thank you guys for such a phenomenal presentation. I have a few questions. Firstly, on the verges, obviously the first phase of the Newton's Road Verge in my ward went in last year. A few residents have raised concerns over maintenance. So could you elaborate on what the maintenance plan would be for the verges long term? Okay, I'll take that one. Because of the wildflower turf, we don't actually need to cut it quite as often as like grass, for instance. So it will have two cuts a year. With that kind of, I think we treat it as what we might call a conservation grass. And that means that we cut the grass, we actually leave it on site for about a week and then we clear it away. So in terms of the wildflower verge, it's actually easier to maintain than a normal grass verge. So we do that. But yeah, we have to leave it because we want it to grow and and flower in between. Brilliant, thank you. I do have a question on green roofs as well. I find that particularly interesting. What percentage of council housing currently have green roofs? And it doesn't matter if you guys don't know. But and if there is there a general target? So currently, not much council housing has green roofs at the moment. Partly because traditional council has building the regulating, there's probably not the capacity in most of them. Although that doesn't not mean it can't be retrofitted. So that's definitely something that we're going to be looking into for kind of the old stock of council housing where that might be possible. Where new council housing is being built, it is being considered every opportunity. So there will be more and more greater proportion of council buildings that do have green roofs on it. Was there a second part of the question? No, no, I think that covers it. And one final question, particularly that very good scheme to hand out freeze bulbs and seeds residents. How widely has this been promoted and where can residents get this stuff? That's really good question. We promote it through all our channels where we can. So we have the climate connects newsletter, but we also send it out with the general kind of Amherstwith and for the council newsletters. We share it with any groups that we are engaging with and wherever possible. But if you ever see it, please do share beyond as well. If we don't see it, we tend to do the tree giveaways tend to be over winter because that's the best time to plant trees. When we do give them out, I will warn people, they look like twigs, but they are alive and they will grow. And they are often provided by another charity who want to spread trees as well, which is great. With the seed giveaways and the bulb giveaways, the seed giveaways we do mainly during the spring and summer when we are at events. So if you see that we are going to be having a presence event, that would be usually the climate change and ecological emergency team that will be there and have a kind of presence, will be giving away seeds there. And with the bulbs, it will be more towards the autumn because they are usually spring bulbs. So you want to plant them at that time. And again, it's going to be at events generally, although we might look into other ways if it's extra popular, which it seems to be. Hello. Antina, this? Hi, thank you very much. That was very positive and encouraging and yeah, definitely up our street. I suppose one question is, I think it's great, things like the regreening of Bishop's Park and I saw a lot of concrete being dug up there. Is there any kind of channel way of how do you get rid of the hardcore and is there any thoughts on how that goes to its final end or becomes reused? Because I think that's going to be a problem or not a problem, but an issue everywhere, if you're going to start ripping up paving, which we're all for. But yeah, that's one. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. So that is part of the procurement process is that we look at the kind of the full life of the materials that we're ripping out as well. Wherever possible, they will go for recycling if they can be. It absolutely depends on the quality of the materials being bought out, but so if it's really old or if they have kind of other materials interlinked within the concrete, it might make it more difficult, but where possible that does get sent to be recycled. And oftentimes we can reuse some of the materials on site if we need to. And so that's part of the procurement process and does involve, it's considered at that stage as well. Thank you. I mean, I think there needs to be quite a lot of thought country-wide on that, doesn't it? With demolition and that balance we have to get. And then can you just explain a bit about the permeable tarmac and why you would use that over earth where you can plant flowers as well? Practically, what are your reasons for that? Because I think some residents might be getting confused. We've had some issues in our ward where we've got tarmac around some of the trees. It may be permeable, and our ward is but green on Masborough Road. I think there was something flagged up about that. Yeah, so we will use the harder services where we need people to walk there and it needs to be accessible for people where we're starting to use more permeable surfaces. So for instance, is around trees. I'm not sure those trees in Masborough Road are permeable, by the way, but in other areas we do do that. And in a lot of parks as well. So I know colleagues in parks have taken out a lot of their asphalt paths and something called Sea Deck Down, which is permeable. So we will use that there. What we're trying to look at now is areas where we have permeable asphalt. We're not so much trying to put that in the carriage way, but they select cycle lanes. That's perfect place for it. We know that it will hold up to that. And yeah, we may then trial that on footways as well, but yeah, we're looking for these areas where we think it will stand up. So lightweight travel. Yeah, exactly. A lot of vehicle turning. It doesn't necessarily work well for permeable surfaces, but yeah, with permeable asphalt in particular. And just one more. And on the, I think it's been touched on already with new developments and the policies for greening those and drainage. Now the new, I don't know how much of a difference will make, but the new permit development rights have just come out where people can extend an extra meter. There's less issues with two stories. That's going to increase flooding, you know, and bulk in buildings, in domestic buildings. Is there some like insistence policy that groups have to be green? I know that on conditions, basically, for that. If it's applying application, yes, if it's permitted development, I'm going to have to refer to colleagues in planning because yeah, I don't have the answer to that one. I see. Okay. Yeah, because I think because that's going to, people just going to go for it, aren't they? So quite no, why not? If that is the case, I think there's a lot that we can do in terms of education on what people can do with those places. You know, one of the big benefits of green roofs that we sometimes overlook is you look down on it and it's nice to look down on. So, you know, if we can start to encourage that and change kind of the perspective of what it does as well, it's not just for flood risk. Maybe we can start to encourage more of that where if it is permitted development, they, you know, residents might want to do that themselves. And it may have been asked before, but I'm not sure. Is there any kind of incentives, monitoring incentives for private people with private gardens to remove their concrete, remove their hard surfacing, just it satisfies them? At the moment, no, we don't, but we are looking into what we might class as a depay project where we can help enable that. So through things like being able to take the waste away or provide in a small skip, if multiple properties want to do it together, ideally, it would be like a street, you know, a whole street would come together to do certain elements of that depaving gardens. So we are looking into things like that. And the same with rainwater harvesters, we're looking into if we can help, you know, encourage and enable that somehow, whether that's, you know, giving rainwater planters away, having a subsidy for them. But at the moment, no, we haven't got anything live that we can give. Do you have, like, advice, biodiversity advice for people who want to put green roofs in? Do you know? Yeah, basically, there's a lot of advice out there. So they can get in touch directly if they want, but I can also share some resources that are easy to find and easy to share after. This, if that's helpful, so that people know where to go. But yeah, if people are interested, then please do get in touch. That's absolutely fine. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Councilor Anderson. I've got a couple more questions and then I'll go over to, oh, actually, I've got a resident. No, come on in. And I can always ask my questions next. So there's a person button. If you'd like to introduce yourself and then ask a question, thank you. Good evening, Barbara Rappetti from the Addison Ward. Thank you for the great presentation. I have a few questions, few comments, few feedback. So it's all come a bit messy, but I'm sure it will make sense at the end. It's mostly on the talk that Phoebe did. A few questions, the green verges, the cost, how are you going to maintain? Because I understand you covered the green investment fund, but as everything, there's always a lot of money at the beginning. But if we're looking at the long term, how does that impact? I'm going to talk as a resident, my council taxes. That's one. Second, do you think about allergies? I suffer allergies from grass. So the idea of having grass all over the the borro looks great, but it will be hell for me. So did you take down to a count? The location, so back for the hay fever, the same for grass or trees. So if you can take down to a count, for the trees, comment, great to have a lot of trees, but in the autumn, they always lose all their leaves. So that's again, maintaining cost. How do you plan for all those extra cost for those extra trees? The location of the suds, couple of concerns. First, are they going to eat parking space on the roads? I'm thinking about Addison Garden, St. Mary, where you have schools. And I know in St. Mary, the suds are on the carriage way, not on the pavement. On Saturday, there's the market at St. Mary, and the pavement is quite small. People gather outside with push chairs, and I've already seen a couple of adults stepping onto the beautiful newly planted flowers. So how are you going to protect that? And it's a safety hazard if they fall down because they miss the step. And outside the schools, from what I remember, outside schools, you've got yellow lines for not parking there, but it's also for the fireman to be able to access to schools quite easily. So do you get involved with the fire services and work with them to ensure that they still have easy access to schools, building, or whatever? And I think, and I think I've covered everything. Did you get all those down? Do you want to divvy them up between you? I'll start because you looked at me first, but I imagine I'm going to pass over it some way. Really thoughtful questions. So thank you for that. I think we started with the green verges. So just touched on the maintenance earlier. And because they are kind of longer grass areas, they will be cut twice a year, and then the risings will be cut and collected following that. So the maintenance is not enormous, and it will be kind of absorbed into the current maintenance contract that we have for that. The allergies, yes, they are considered. It's kind of it's a difficult one to completely eradicate, and there's all sorts of evidence for various aspects of that. I'm not an expert on that, so I would probably leave my equality colleague to talk about that, but I can ask him to kind of feed back more about how that's considered if he's like afterwards. And then I might pass over. Yeah, so I can take trees and leaves. So our waste team already have extra collections of leaves. So in the autumn, or moving towards winter, when the trees drop their leaves, they do already have in place extra collection. For leaf litter that is part of their contract that they do. George, should I pass over to you for location of sorts? Yeah, so with all the locations mentioned, we would do a full consultation with the residents. We try and minimize any sort of parking disruption. So we try not to take parking spaces where possible. But we do also look at how much they are used, and if there is capacity, as I said, a full consultation would always be done with the affected residents and businesses. In terms of Addison, I do not believe the concept design is looking at removing any parking spaces. So confirm that. In terms of the Mazzborough Road rain gardens with the WO lines, we do always collaborate and speak with our stakeholders, which includes the emergency services. So they would have been consulted on that to ensure that access is always provided to our emergency services. Okay, thank you very much. Thanks very much. Can I just follow up on a couple of these as well? Is the idea I'm a Councillor for wormhole ward, and the idea that sort of fences are sort of protect our green spaces. And I know that again crosses over into planning. But the idea that why do we need to stop people with fences on a lot of our green spaces are actually public spaces. And yet we fenced them off. And the maintenance of those fences, probably more than the maintenance would be of the corner fields that people really don't use, except to, you know, to maybe walk their dog. I know in wormhole, we've got a couple of the corners have been taken over and become really quite lush allotments, etc. But I mean, do we have any sort of policy around fences? I mean, apart from that, when it goes over into planning, which is a sort of style comment. Yeah, I can answer that. So often, I think, at the places in the parks where they're fenced off, it'll be following planting really to try and establish. But there are quite strict rules about not permanently fencing places off in parks that are already established to make sure that people have access, because the idea is not to make them smaller. The only kind of permanent fencing that would be put in new would be for dog areas or for play areas to kind of, you know, very clearly demarcate those. And if, I think in wormhole, there's a sort of fenced area in the corner where they've been self-seeding a meadow area, which is great. And that should come down eventually and hopefully be open to everyone. But in order to allow it to establish, that's sort of why that fencing there. Similarly, in Ilbert Common, just since we did the seeding last week, there's fencing there just to allow it to establish, we'll take it down and reuse it, hopefully, elsewhere. So that's the general rule, and it's quite... Yeah, I was thinking more of the sort of iron hoop fences that block off every corner in wormhole. I mean, a couple of them have been developed by residents. And I just think that the fences there are sort of saying this isn't for public use and not for access, even though they're only about two feet tall, most adults could just step over them. But they're sending a message that these pieces of greenery... I mean, you might say that these aren't important pieces of greenery and the grass and a couple of trees that are on them are what we should be protecting anyway and not planning. But I'm just thinking about extending our reach as much as we can. No, I think it's an important point to consider and we want to make sure people feel welcome in the green spaces. So I'd be interested to know, because I know there are the pocket parks as well, which generally have an entrance. But yeah, perhaps we need to make sure we're talking about the same places, so I understand. But yeah, generally, if permanent fencing is going and where it hasn't been before, there needs to be a consultation to make sure everyone's happy with that. But if somebody else has an answer, then please. Thank you, Chair. Mark Raispek, Director of Public Rail. Yeah, look, I think I'd welcome seeing some details of what those are, because I think if there's not a need for those fences, then they shouldn't be there, and the problem would be put there. Historically, sometimes perhaps it was a fashion at some time, rather than actual requirement. But what we don't need is to take on any more maintenance responsibilities than, you know, so I suspect if we got to a point where those fences needed to come down, we'd take them down and we wouldn't replace them. The question is whether we anticipate that and take them down, and have the cost of taking them down earlier than they need to. But if you've got some particular sites, then I'm very happy to get my parks team to have a look at it, and we're going to come back to you, Chair. Thank you very much for that. I'm just going to hand over to Councillor Harcourt, and then I'm going to take a question from Pat Tooty. Thanks, Chair. Just a few points. Going back to when we were looking about new developments and so on, can I draw over his attention to the planning guidance in the SPD, which covers an awful lot of this. One of the new requirements is that by a diversity net gain is a requirement to be included in new developments. Has that come in or was it just the last few weeks or something like that? It's now a requirement, so new developments have to show, and there's a minimum standard for that as well. Somebody mentioned about green roofs. If you want to see some good green roofs, go down to Queen Carolina State. There's some lovely examples there. In terms of other things, just the metal loop fencing, this is going back a little bit. I used to chair one of the Northern Area Housing Forum, and one of the things that came up time and time again from residents was they wanted their cast iron or wrought iron fencing with the loops in and all the discussion and the number of consultations there were about the style of fencing and et cetera, et cetera, that went on. Very often it's a resident lead. I'm not saying that people shouldn't have access to it because they should, but again, the other thing that annoys people is the kids start playing football on it, which is, well, I'm sure we all played football. The green areas were perhaps not all of us, but some of us did when we were younger. It's getting that balance right. The allergies, yes, I'm no expert on that either, but certainly what I will say is the leader has made a big point about silver birch trees in particular, because they are well known for affecting asthma sufferers. That is something that's effectively banned, and in so doing that, he also drew attention to all other types of allergens. Obviously, as you say, Phoebe, it's impossible to remove everything otherwise, you just have something like get out of them as involved where the entire planet is covered in metal and professional stuff, so there's that. What was the other thing? Trees, suns. I think that's all I was going to make a new point. Yeah, no, that's it for the moment anyway. Well, thanks for that intelligence, because I didn't know about the relationship with the fences, so that's good. Oh, sorry, one other thing. This is more of a question. I've seen the work that you've done at Starch Green and what's being planned outside Greenside School. How much collaboration is there with the disability team? So with the Starch Green, we ran the design past the disability team, so we made sure that they saw that during the consultation phase with the wider residents and businesses. They gave us comments and feedback on how we could tweak the design which we took on board, so the final design that went in was approved by them. In terms of Greenside, we would probably run a very similar approach. When we've got a detailed design, we would run it past the DRT team to ensure that they're happy with the design that is going in. Because obviously there's Poplington House or whatever it's called, just up the road from Starch Green, and I do help or assist a blind friend of mine regularly up that area, and one thing that he draws attention to regularly is that new scheme is difficult to negotiate. So whether that's something else could be done to improve that in terms of people, for blind people in particular. We can definitely re-engage with the DRT to see how that scheme is bedding in, and of course, if there's any improvements we can work with them on that. Thank you. I think we've got a resident who would like to ask a question. Thanks for that, can I ask you all a question? Hi, everybody. Thanks. I'm Patrick, you and I live on wormhole. I actually went for a walk yesterday prior to coming to the meeting and walked around the one outside the school in Westfield Road, which is Greenside. I think that's the one you were just referring to, Wesley, or were you talking about the Greenside Road itself? Yeah, exactly. I went and looked at that one, and also up to Wormhole Road, and the ones that you're talking about are opposite the park, they're opposite the main park gates, those ones with the railings that are quite high actually, or opposite the main park gates on the south side of the park. And it does really look as if you can't go in there. I mean, I walked past them last night, thought, actually, can you even get in that gate? And then I walked up to Australia Road as well, and looked at the sub-scheme up there. And I know the one at Starch Green, and they're all so different from each other. And I guess one of my, I'm really supportive. I think it's great to do these schemes. They do need to be looked at with people with disabilities. The one at Starch Green actually is pretty much over to the side of the paving there. So there is one bit of one side of the paving, I think, is wider than the other for access, which is probably a good idea. The one at Australia Road looks lovely at the moment, really great. But there are times when it doesn't look great at all. So I guess one of my concerns is about maintenance. And you obviously don't want heavy duty maintenance, but you do want the contractors to know what they're doing with all these different sites. Because often they have, in the past, got it wrong. When there have been trees planted in the parks, the contractors have removed half of them, the whips, the little saplings and so on. They really need training and telling exactly what is expected on these new and pretty expensive sites. So I think maintenance is really important also from the point of view of keeping residents on side and thinking, these are good things, let's have more of them. The planting outside the Greenside School on Westfield Road, I was really puzzled by, though there are four quite big round, three round planters in one long one, and they love total mess at the moment, which is really a shame. And not only that, where they've been put in, the rest of the paving round there and the bike racks, which are still there, good, I want the bike racks to be there. My kids went to Westfield to a Greenside and I was a governor there and I used those bike racks and I think they should remain. But they look really messy at the moment. And the paving all around where the planters have been put in on that scheme doesn't look good. It just looks rather rough and ready. So it doesn't yet look attractive. And I'm wondering if 200,000 pounds for that scheme, I hope it hasn't been spent yet and that there is more to come to make that look a lot better. I mean, I don't think we want fantastic planting in those planters. We just want planting that looks good and persists around the year. So I'd be interested just to hear how you respond to those things. I'll touch on the Westfield very one first of all. So the pictures that you saw was an initial intervention based on antisocial behaviour reports from the police. So what was there prior was a bench facing some quite tall shrubbery and fairly tall brick planters. So the immediate intervention was to remove that bench to lower the brick planters and to remove the hedges in those. This was to sort of remove possibility of people sort of hiding from view. So those photos were a first intervention only. The 200,000 pound is for a complete redesign of that pedestrianised space. As part of the police's work, they did a survey across the community where they gathered people's potential challenges and problems that they found with that space. They've sent us those feedback responses and we've used that to collate an idea of how we picture a concept designed to be for that space. That's really reassuring, thank you. Just so you're aware, the next phase that we are engaging with the school directly to run some workshops, we'd really like it if some of the pupils could help us design a space as because they're some of the people that use it the most and we're very much aware that those bike stands are in use. It just might not be the best location for them and obviously they also need to be changed as I understand they do look a little bit old. Following that, a full consultation will be made to the community. Oh great, I'm really relieved that's not the final look of it. Sorry for the miscommunication. Can I ask about longer term maintenance for the rest of the, you know, for all those schemes really because, as I say, some of them have been put in for quite a long time and at times they have looked dreadful. It's another one that has looked dreadful some of the time is a Rand Hammersmith Broadway and, you know, residents look at that and they think this is a waste of time and money. Not, wow, what a great idea. Let's have more of it, which is what we really want them to think. Yeah, I can take that one. So it's a bit of a difficult one in the planting in the public realm. It's got to be very hard work and it has to put up with all the elements of, you know, people throwing coffee in it to people walking over it. You know, it's a it's a very hard work in space. That said, we do have a maintenance contractor in place and some of our schemes are also maintained by community groups. So part of Australia Road is maintained by the Hammersmith Gardeners Association. And I think it's also that that balance between seasonality, sometimes they just don't look good. They're not in flower. So, you know, coming out of winter, we had a period where, yeah, everything's just a bit dull, starting to liven up a little bit now. But we do appreciate the maintenance is a challenge. And with the variety, like you've noted of the different plants going in, there is there is a bit of training that maybe we need to do with our contractors to update them on the skills required and what is required to maintain some of these more higher-end sites such as Australia Road and Starch Green. All right. Thanks. Thanks very much. Can I go back to that? And one of the other officers might be able to how I diverdy are they having training? Because did we, didn't Kate McVay become part of I diverdy training? No, I've got that wrong. Anyway, do you know if I had to diverdy get training? I diverdy definitely get training. They're one of the largest ground maintenance contractors around. So, they're very experienced. There is a challenge in this sector in terms of being able to maintain workforce. So, that is a challenge. So, there is constant recruitment and training at a certain level. But as Jess said, you know, there is a maintenance plants in place for these. And I think it's quite right to point out that at certain times of the year, they might just not look right. For example, some of the verges could look as if there's no grass and that's just bare. But actually, that's because they might have been rotated in order to help with the planting of the bulbs, etc. I know I've had a few comments from residents around those type of issues. And usually, it's because we've gone in and planted bulbs and rotated the soil. So, the grass is not there and it looks bare. So, as with the garden, there are seasons depending upon what's planted there. And try to put something which is attractive and robust. And all year round is nylon impossible. There will be times when it looks great and there will be times when it looks less great. What we are wanting to do is to make sure it's kept tidy and not full of rubbish. And it looks like it's been kept. And that's the focus of the contractor. So, it can be misleading sometimes where people think it isn't been kept just because it isn't in flower or there's no grass there. But I take the point about the fact that maintenance is clearly very important. And we are working with Ida Verde all the time to improve that. Fantastic. Thanks for that. I'm just going to ask one more question and then I'll come to our guests again. This time, it's about the responsibility of certain side roads or certain main roads. For example, the A4 going through Hammersmith and Fulham is incredibly polluted when, you know, on Fernaval Garden Side, which I often walk on, you feel very close to a very busy road. And we are, the town hall is being developed just along there that's right next to this road. So, is it is the pavement part of TFL? Or do we have any responsibility where we could put up hedging? In short chair, it's all TFL. But we are in contact with TFL regularly and we do know that they have got plans, long term plans for the route corridor along the A4, not just in our borough, but across the A4. And part of the work they're doing is looking at speed limits as well, for example. So, they're looking at with a view to accidents, but also they know that helps pollution too. And so, there will be plans, but who knows how long it will take for those to come through. And, you know, there are priorities which TFL work with their own budgets as we do. And, you know, so there's a lot of work on prioritizing locations where it would help public transport or accident reduction. These are clearly some of the areas which they are prioritizing at the moment. So, they've got aspirations bigger than their budget, which is perhaps not surprising. And so, I do know that if they would, if finances weren't quite so tight, then they would be looking to do some of those attractive things that you mentioned. And, we will continue to work with TFL to encourage them to take on those measures as soon as possible. Thank you for answering. That's brilliant. I'm going to bring in somebody, a resident from Kevin's Bush. Hello. So, yes, I'm Will from Donald Brown. I'm a resident of Shepherd's Bush. Thank you for your presentations. And I'm like, I'm here, really, because I'm completely supportive of the work you're doing. And it was really great to see some of the good things that are happening. Just two things. Well, first of all, if you're looking for inspiration on keeping planters looking beautiful all year round, I don't, I forget her name, but the resident who plants the tree pits completely of her own accord, I think, in Askew Road clearly knows what she's doing, because they always seem to look amazing in all seasons, so maybe get her on board. That's one suggestion. My second question, stroke suggestion, is bicycle hangers, which are obviously in great demand. It's a long waiting list in the borough, has been for ages. And I know that they are being rolled out. I know you're on it. But have you considered killing two birds with one stone? Because increasingly, I'm seeing designs out there of bicycle hangers, which have green roofs. So that would seem like a, yeah, would seem like a kind of killing two birds of one stone option there. The ones we have are not particularly attractive, although they are very useful, but there are some really interesting options available with green roofs. So just, if you haven't, could I suggest you look into those? And secondly, this is not really for the ecology team, it's for the elected councillors, I suppose, but as we all know, we recently passed the five-year anniversary of Hammersmith Bridge, being close to motorised traffic. And I just want to put in a plea, I mean, some of us have been asking for this for five years, but I'll ask it again. Surely that, you know, the situation with the bridge is an extraordinary opportunity to create something green and pioneering and spectacular and inspirational, i.e. not reopening it to motorised traffic, but, you know, making the most of an opportunity to do something green with that bridge. So really, I just want to remind the councillors, particularly, that there are a lot of people, I think probably more people now than five years ago, given the political realities and the economic realities of getting that bridge reopened to traffic. So anyway, just a plea, really, to think again on Hammersmith Bridge. I think we'll take that on board, but not get into a very tricky, common, long conversation about the bridge, but I wonder if you could come back on Hangers, bicycle Hangers, and whether that, they've already been, you know, whether there's a plan, they've already been purchased, or whether we can re-look. Maybe, maybe. Yeah, thank you very much for that. Look, we can always look at alternative ways. There's always going to be a need for more Hangers as we go forward, so I don't think we're, wherever we've purchased, going to be the end of the programme. I think if there's any innovative ideas that people have got, we're very happy to look at those. Yeah, thanks. Fantastic, thank you. And going on from that, I was going to ask about the engagement relationship with residents. We've got this wonderful opportunity to, we've got some more time if anyone wants to come up and speak, but how we're engaging with residents, if they want an allotment, I know we've got the allotments by Bishop's Park, and that's a really fantastic space that is well utilised. I think there's probably a waiting list for most years, but whether if residents have an idea for a dead space, I've got a resident who's emailed me today talking about around imperial and how much building has gone up there with quite a little greenery and whether, yes, providing lovely walkways and a very modern scale has worked well for that area to really be a boon to the economy there. But whether we can almost take back some of that space by putting plants as in or having recommendations. I mean, of course, a lot of the land will already be a developer's land and that's sold and we can't do anything, but there will be wide pavements. I mean, the thing, particularly down by that A40 junction, where it gets very complicated, there's lots of road turnings, but there's also very wide pavements. So I don't know if you've got any thoughts about resident engagement, resident requests. I think we would always be interested in receiving residence requests, as Jess said, there's a work going on at the moment to look at opportunities around the whole borough, where there's where we might be able to introduce schemes such as those being described. So any requests coming from residents would help us to fill that database and to look at opportunities. But just to mention, perhaps a bit more specifically about the Imperial and White City area you talk about, we're actually at the PAC meeting yesterday where a public realm strategy was being discussed and that's looking at how we're utilising the public space and making it more accessible and greener and more pleasant to live in and exist in. So there are things being looked at in that area on a large scale in terms of a strategy, but specifically when we come down to individual sites, then I'd say we would welcome being receiving any suggestion. So we can look at that and add that to our database if we think it's suitable. Thank you. And would you suggest a particular page of the website or a particular email or for residents to use to get in touch? We can provide email details that we can maybe add to this, but also the minutes from the meeting. But yeah, we are looking at a website refresh, especially around sustainable drainage in terms of information for residents. But yeah, they're a little bit of where we have our map of where we're doing sunschemes. We do maybe have an opportunity to put in there. A little, you can tell us, you know, put a dot on the map. We want this here. We are looking into something like that as well. That's fantastic. Thank you. Back to, oh, Councillor Harkle, sorry. And then I'll come back to the residents. So again, just a couple of points. I don't know whether anybody here can make any comment on this. What was it? The Great West Hedge project, which I'm sure you probably know about. It's a hedge going from the sort of Chiswick part, like way back to Hammersmith along the south side of the A4, which was going to be in conjunction with, as we've been hearing, reduced traffic speed limits and also surface level pedestrian crossings and things like that. You know, I'm sure those plans are not going to come to fruition for a while, but they're there and it may be worth looking at it again. Certainly that Great West Hedge idea, because it fits exactly what you were talking about. I have to concur with Will from the bike, not the bike hands, the tree pits. I mean, it's incredible work that two people are actually doing. There's a woman who's now got a job with the Council, so I'm not sure which department she's in, but I know she's got a job in the Council, but she spends her weekends and Sundays doing the tree pits in Askew Road. It's incredible work in there. You live around the corner as well, so, and I see them on Sunday morning. I think we should get them into the newsletter on Friday then, didn't we? Bike hangers, yes, if we could improve. The design of those bike hangers is, if you'll excuse the joke, a bit pedestrian to say the least. And actually, they're quite hard for people to use. They do like a very big year. No comment about the bridge at the moment. Thank you very much. I've got a resident who'd like to come up, Pat. Again. Sorry, I'll be brief. I wonder if I could particular be in my bonnet at the moment. I have many bees, but this particular one is about the playgrounds. And listening to this conversation, I'm thinking, what is the synergy between the place spaces in the borough, the absolutely awful place spaces that we've got in certain parts of the borough? And, you know, that kind of tarmac, old equipment, miserable looking, and I could name the ones that I'm thinking of, you know, is there any move? Is there any possibility that some of those playgrounds could not only be improved, better equipment, more fun, go and look at Finnsbury Park or Cliff's Old Park or some of the ones in Kensington and Chelsea or down in Crystal Palace, there's loads of good parks around for kids. Hammersmith, I'm afraid, does not have them. And we really need them. But surely, kids don't want to be playing on hard stand, do they? They want to be on ground, which is a bit soft, maybe even a bit muddy in places. The adventure playground bit in Raven's Court Park, I imagine that is quite a good rain pit of some kind, because it's very permeable. That could be repeated. That sort of thing could be elsewhere. And the place spaces just are crying out to have some love and attention and money put into them. For the sake of the kids, I take my granddaughter around these parks now, and I am appalled because some of them are the same as they were, probably not when I took my daughter 40 years ago, but they are the same as they were when I took my son nearly 30 years ago. And they need renovation, and it could be part of this kind of sustainable drainage, thinking about greening the borough and all of that. If you want some ideas about which ones need some attention, I've got a list. Would you like to take that? Yeah, I could take that one. Yeah, I mean, first of all, we are aware we've been doing surveys and we are aware that the playgrounds are not in the condition that we would like them to be in, and we are looking at how we can rectify that through investment and investment plan. And we're having some discussions about that at the moment. And I also take, I think it's a very good point about how we might be able to adapt them in the future to take on board some of this work we're doing. However, in terms of the place surfaces, there are standards around that we would need to comply with. I mean, certainly with modern standards, the surfacing would be a firm wearable durable surface, which is soft and is built to a certain specification. So for Charles was to fall that they would be cushioned and not not injured. So the days of a very hard surface are no longer acceptable. So we would need to build it to modern design standards. But clearly, it is recognised that the playgrounds need to be maintained to a higher standard than we're currently looking at. And we're looking at how we can improve that. Thank you. Councillor LANDON. Yeah, it's just going back to your point about the sort of disparity a little bit between the different green spaces and unifying them somewhat. And it's good to have some identity in different areas. But and you said, it's great to do the community engagement with the school or with green side. But I just was asking the question, you may be doing this. Are you linking up with good landscape architects and architects as well? Because community engagement is good, but I still think it needs to be pulled together coherently, or developed. So for quite a few of our projects, especially like the large scale ones, we do work with consultants that have a lot of different specialist skills, landscape architects, and also like people that can help us with the visualisations, which are really good for the consultations with residents. So yeah, we make sure that we work with a whole range of different specialists. And public art as well. I know that links into public realm. I always have a bit of a laugh at the ones on Darling Road that, I'm sorry, that, you know, on Paninsburg Road, we've got the like the yellow little chess piece and the red one. And that's kind of quite funny, I think. But I think we could develop that, integrate the artwork or sculpture a bit more sophisticatedly possibly. In terms of the Westville Road one and the marine field, when we're working directly with schools, that is an aspect that we would like to ask the school if the pupils would like to get involved in creating some art pieces that go alongside these green spaces to sort of show their input into the design. So yeah, it's definitely something that we're looking at incorporating to show that this is a community piece. And it can be, as we said, there's so many different benefits that come with a lot of these sustainable drainage schemes. And one of those can be art and community, really. Okay. And you know, maybe commissions and, you know, young artists to do some sculptures and the, you know, local. Yeah, I can come in on that and just say, I think the Ells Court development, where they put up all the living walls, so they had a chat with growing a moustache and was quite good, actually, that sort of thing. I just say that, you know, art into the public space is something we really like to encourage in the right places. And it is part of our cultural strategy. So we will be starting to look at that and working with our cultural partners and artists about how we might look to incorporate art within the public space. And certainly, you know, in large developments, such as the Ells Court, we would expect to see them activating their areas of public space with art. And I know having talked to them recently, that is on their radar. So yeah, I was very keen to work with residents and other groups to see how we can make this happen as well as with our cultural partners over the coming years. And while we're here, actually, I'd like to commend whoever did the negotiation on full and reach, where the whole the whole area is being opened up that they're currently building a sort of pedestrianized access. Although my one worry was they seem to take it down a lot of trees in order to build that park and I'm hoping those trees went to a good home or new trees are planted to take their place. Yeah, I can't comment. It was before me when the initial planning application went through. So I'm not sure about the ones that have gone, but I do know there are lots going in and I've seen them going in recently. So I did that is happening too. It looks like it'll be lovely. And any other questions from the residents? Well, I think this has been a really fantastic meeting. The one thing I was going to ask about was the rain leaflet, the rain residents' information. It would be wonderful if you could make that accessible via a link or something. Or, you know, whether it can be picked up here or a cobsaw or something. And I think that's one thing that comes out of these sort of meetings is how we're going to engage with residents going forward. And I think that is one of the action points. I'm just going to go quickly, go through the action points that I've got. We ended up quite a lot, actually, talking to the air quality officer who is responsible for air quality, for feedback. And the disability, in terms of making sure these permeable surfaces absolutely come in for disability, particularly, I think, Councillor Harkle mentioned an area where it wasn't designed very well for blowing people to negotiate. So I think that needs to be taken on board. The fences idea that, you know, again, that's a kind of cultural thing that we, for years and years, we fenced off everything. But we might re-look at fences, TFL and the speed limits. I mean, the negotiation with TFL, I'm sure you're in with them all the time. The bike hangars, we've got as an action to going forward and having a contact point, an email or a link so that residents can get in touch and give us ideas as well and give us information. I mean, if you could make that map interactive, that would be fantastic. Thank you. And that's, it's been a really great meeting unless any of the residents want to come back on anything or ask any questions. I'll thank you all for coming. It's been a really fantastic meeting, really positive action and actions to take forward, thanks to the committee. Now, the next meeting coincides with Climate Action Week on the 25th of June. So what we wouldn't want to do is take all our climate team away from all the work they are doing for that week. So I'm going to suggest that we re-imagine the next policy and accountability committee and possibly integrate it with one of the events in Climate Action Week so that we're not taking officers away from what is really our focus anyway. So if you don't mind, I'm going to leave the, the agenda for next pack open and see how we can integrate it maybe with some young people involved or some more. And so I'll thank you all for tonight and we'll see you again. 25th of June is it penciled in at the moment and hopefully we can make that date work but if not, the information will be on the website. Thank you.