Transcript

I think I'll start with it. Thank you very much. This is Coaster Dow and big lead chair of the Bochen area committee. Welcome to the Bochen area committee meeting. I've chosen the 23rd and 8th of 2024. Please note that after today's meeting, please note that today's meeting will be recorded, the record will be published one night after the meeting. If any Coaster has not been able to access to this agenda, please educate via the hands up function now. Thank you. I, to one, said it in. Can I ask the committee officers, do you have a call, please, Theresa? Can I ask if the polling can slash evidence sentence, please? And so down, big lead, present. Yes, there are three gyms present. Yes, there are in Bochen. Present. Yes, sir, Jen Cruz said, I said George Hall. Present. Yes, that we have the committee. Yeah. Yes, that David Mair. Yeah. Yes, that Helen Powell. Present. Yes, I'm Simpson. Present. Yes, I'm calling Simpson. Present. And so, Stephen Smith. You? Also, compare the polling officers will be in attendance with this morning. [INAUDIBLE] Thank you very much, Theresa. Do you remember so many declarations of interest? We said to get used in the hands up function. For members joining virtually, can I remind you, should you intend leaving the meeting for a particular item, you should indicate that you intend doing so. As the committee officer will be required to remove you from the recording, you should not rejoin until invited back in at the conclusion of the item. Thank you. I have a transparency statement for item eight by virtue of being on the CFS Staling Room 2023, as this is a retrospective report on the main anti-partum of the item in London. Thank you. I see no other indications. Item two, public safety and equality duty guidance. Should any member not agree with the guidance, please indicate the other hands up function. Thank you. Before I proceed, I have several good news to this. So there is my police. And there was another night's inspection of long-life private school nationally on the 5th and 6th of March 2024 by the key inspector. The key message is taken from the visit where strong attachments had been formed between the children and staff, which supported children's confidence and well-being. Children were having fun and engaged in a variety of plant and spontaneous activities to which reflected their interests. Families of children were welcomed into the bright and daily entrance to the nationally, where there was plenty of room to store children's jackets and bolognes. Children and their families had opportunities to influence the direction of the service. Children were supported and cared for by a reflective and knowledgeable staff team. In evaluating quality, a six-point scale issues were one with the thumbs up function and six is excellent. The nationally achieved three rated at four good and one rated at five, very good. We would like to congratulate the head teacher, staff and pupils. The petroleum-plested Mark Thompson was delighted to present a gold long service of art to Elaine Mehe, captain of the first new Pitts Lego boys parade. Elaine has given 31 years service of an officer of the first new Pitts Lego, starting in 1993. For three of those years, she has been captain of the company. Whilst Elaine is always quick to say she's been captain for only three years, it's amazing just how far the company has come on in these three years under her leadership. The president highlighted the high standard of BB work kite out by Elaine. Her enthusiasm and popularity. We would like to thank Elaine for giving over 13 years of quality volunteer service to the first new Pitts Lego and bucket battalion. Congratulations to 17-year-old Ailey Crae but from stricken who won her first European tights won kickbox and recently at Fraser Glauiser Centre. Ailey's opponent was a 21-year-old French champion. Ailey is already a British Scottish unseltic title builder. She first took up the sport with primary six and only began competing in the last couple of years. We wish her to continue six days. A woman's repeat of heads has been awarded Fund Tracer of the Year for our National Park and Suchality. Cure Park and since a charity based in London aims to find treatment to slow, stop or reverse the progression of Parkinson's. The charity today announced their Fund Tracer of the Year which went to the Bluetooth venue on Michelle Giles. I know one of which was also shared by joint when our aunt Niro is. Michelle started living with Parkinson and she found out how to witness his deterioration over the last 11 years. Despite working a full-time job, Michelle has raised up at 18,000 for the charity organising fundraising events as well as training to two parts in the 2020 for London Marathon. Michelle is quoted by the charity. The support I received from the community of potatoes overwhelming and I can't thank everyone enough. It feels very emotional to have raised this amount for a charity that very boasts my heart. We would like to congratulate Michelle on this fantastic achievement. And the operating share club sport awards were held on the 15th of March at the Eastern Exchange in Broolie. The very award they went out of the sport for Change Awards Peter Hoeck-Nepwell Club. Suzanne Farley from New Year, one active schools volunteer of the year. Other nominees included Jamie Smith and Destroyers basketball group. And finally the following businesses. Plumb throughout, but I have recently been recognised in different awards and settings. I'm of Scotland's business award winner for 2024 by the Dolphin Coffee Peter Hoeck, Best Fish and Chip Shop, Queerly Clean, Best Cleaning Business, Mortar Tattoo, Best Tattoo Shop. Crafty House in Kumitlow, Best Craft or Creative Business. The CFIT program received HSD Award for Excellence in Health Services. And local pet awards in high school, local biners weren't independent pet shop of the year. Emma's Pet Fair, Dog Walker of the Year was prevention and pet top for the year in Mandy Kennels and Country. And Cartburn Court Care Home Barcheter Health Care received the R O S P A Health and Safety Health Care win an award for working hard to choose staff, residents, patients and visitors are safe. They also received running up status in the prestigious Sir George L. Tovey, which honors the strongest global entrance from amongst the industry sector winners. Dimmed stating that health and safety performed during 2020. And last but not least, but can have a pharmacy and travel clinic have been awarded gold standard status by NHS Champion for the work of their pharmacy. The behind the human pharmacy provides more than just a prescription service with various other services and options available in their scouting stream location. The family also recently installed Buckens very fast 21 hour prescription service robot. An ATM style machine fitted to the front of the shop where people registered with the service can pick up their prescriptions when it's most convenient for them. Can we please agree on that if congratulations be sent to each of the above? And please, if you have any good news stories, please get in touch with us. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, item three, draft minute of the meeting of the 19th of March, 2024. Should any member not agree with the content of the draft minute, please indicate the other hard stuff function. Thank you. Okay, we move on to business item four, planning application and reference APP 2.23, 1-7-7-6, planning permission and principal for directional dwelling house on garbage learned to the south of Pandas A-952 mental law. We have a request to address the committee in relation to this planning application. From the applicant, Mr. Billy Scott and Mr. Ryan Ockert agent who is here in person. Can I confirm Mr. Scott and Mr. Ockert in attendance? Yes. Thank you very much. Welcome to the meeting of the Buckingham Air Committee. For your information, I can confirm that we have 11 members of the Buckingham Air Committee in attendance today. In light of the council's procedure, I am now going to confirm that the committee wish to hear your representation. I will then ask the senior planner, Sally Wood to present the planning application before asking you to address the committee. When you are invited to speak, you will be given five minutes to go forward to representation. After that, members may ask you questions. Thank you. Committee members, should I member not agree to hear the representation, please indicate the other hands-up function. Senior indication, Cara, Sally Wood to present the support, please. Sally, good morning.

• Good morning.
• Thank you, and you spent the morning to everyone. I'm going to be sought for the erection of a dwelling house at Lan South with the kind of miserable. And the application site is cited at the east of A952. I will show you a part of my display shortly. The application is for all committee following local ward member consultation, and that's the reason why the possession one of the committee reported. The nearest settlement is Fentarandis, which is approximately 0.8 miles of both lives, and what by load is approximately a mile. They, it's like, just like an accessible rural area, it's a finding the local land and by Scottish Government. And furthermore, the application site is filled with land. There are many parts and elements that have been considered in arriving at the recommendation. And indeed, there are many constituent parts to be had in the right decision on the application. As you know, I'm not familiar with, planning legislation in first the primacy of the development plan. The development plan is the NDF-4 adopted things every last year, and as to whether they will develop and plan, abadine shell of the development plan adopted in January last year. Key policies are referred to be in section five, the committee report, and you also note from the report that there are no objections received from the committee's report. In terms of section 10, sorry, section two, paragraph 10, rather, and you also see that outline planning permission, which is just sort of, they couldn't have planned permission in the mission in principle. As I said today, was sought back in 2005. It was a different applicant then, but it was reviewed planning permission in 2005, whilst that was being under an earlier of the development plan as well. It was made on the basis of the potential for every poster. As the application does see planning permission, in principle there are no sorting council or house design, particularly in the city layout that has been submitted, and the most relevant policies cited in section five really are concerning all homes and policy R2 in terms of the acceptability of the principle of development for our house, which is in the countryside and in this situation. Policy R2 of the local Durham plan outlines the exceptions in which in dwelling house may be supported within the accessible rural area, and now with any settlement. And it includes accommodation for a primary industry, whoever, and single houses associated with retirement succession when having control of holding. And these are the only two exemptions that might apply to the application. The application is submitted as accompanied with a labor requirement report, which states that the report is commissioned by Eric Scott to support an application to remain only half of his son, Billy Scott, on land at the farm address. The report notes Eric, who is the father, also in the royal interest business, and Billy, who in the houses for crowning works, I'll show him, helps his father when he is commonly. The report, the labor requirement report, states that overall including crops, a labor requirement is one and a half units, full-time improvement is required, and that without the crops focusing purely on the livestock, the labor requirement is 1.09, just over one. In respect to the report's conclusions, it demonstrates that there is no requirement for additional accommodation based on the prime industry worker, as the agricultural unit has the insufficient capacity for two labor units. Therefore, the application fails to mute that exemption, that criterion, and further budget policies necessary for a business case to facilitate, particularly given the labor report, which demonstrates it's not a requirement for two workers, which does question the economic liability to stay in the full-time worker, and this hasn't been submitted for planning for service for consideration. Planning service also notes that it's important information, Eric also runs a floor ledge business, as well as the farm, and that Billy does help out the news, I'm sure, and both of them are indicators, they're not indicators rather of the economic viability of the holding and just there on their own. Additionally, the House is planning advice states that wherever labor requirement of two or more workers is demonstrated, so in those instances where it is demonstrated, that's not necessarily just by the number of dwelling houses, but instead, it must be just if either business can operate without the number of work, could not operate, sorry, without that work, considering on the site is that, and as already stated, the labor requirement in this instance suggests that there are not sufficiently both four or two workers. Honestly, also declared states that for the primary working priority and that there must be those due to alternative accommodation available, and a sequential assessment was submitted by the planning agent. It was first involved in being the split, and it was first believed by House-based foreign animal welfare. For poor percentage shows photographs of livestock being housed in the agricultural building at the farm pub, and at the time, the site was at the land close, which was being used as grazing land for their livestock as well. The site of the house, the application site, has just been bailed and is used to the crops as decided at that time. The reasons for siding the house outlined in the suspension assessment, effectively meant to have been intended to create a stack of the farm pub, and the site for the housing and suitable for crops, and this actually conflicts with the evidence that was presented at the time and the site was at it. Furthermore, the site of the house is at the fringes, it's at the periphery of the existing farm pub, and away from the central point, which is where the livestock is located. Both of them on the photo show that the site's way of pass to be located is at the use of crops, and I'm showing you that on a designation shortly. Not only is the first house site been motned on the profile of the farm holding, but there was also trees that screen in the middle of the house that used the canoes to fields and the land itself slopes not the kind of house site. So in reality, it doesn't even make a need for short overseeing of the cultural hold-end. There's a large variety of field of use for crops with evidence operating closely related to the farm pub, and this contradicts the sporting information the state of the house is required for good animal pose-rendering. The site for the house is approximately 2 1/2 kilometers by car to the main farm pub, which is just going back on one and far away, whereas it would be expected to be close to the farm pub based on the age of supporting the statement that is to look after an overseas welfare of their animals. Mention is also made about the creation of a second farm pub, but it must be pointed out that this is not for consideration on this application or under the policies within the development plan. This application must be, must be considered under the need for an additional primary work, but it essentially need for a dwelling, any options to get set in the farm, but they can be far above the table, and then would require additional detail, which has not been submitted for analysis or assessment by the planning service, particularly those relating to a business case, need poverty, liberty and so on. South occasions made on basis of the need for like central primary work of flash and hospital injury. There is, has to be said, some irony in the desire to create a second farm pub, which is part of the argument put forward in the application, which is so remote to the existing farm pub, as it would actually render the existing buildings and next to the farmhouse and the hostages for coming redundant, and therefore couldn't create future round-field opportunity sites. And whilst the application sites, again, next to my concern, I'm a hospital injury, so it couldn't be removed from the hub itself. So following the points made in the supporting sequential assessment, submitted accordingly in the application, the information is conflicting, and ideally a house should be located closely adjacent farm pub. And again, there are some modern buildings there as well, which would have required some investment. So it's logical that farm pub would remain where currently is adjacent to the farmers. Reference is almost so made in this a quick submitted sequential assessment that it makes a build inside existing within the farm pub. And it would suggest that there are potential ground-led opportunities. These may not make suitable house sites, but this hasn't been for the exam and within this eventual assessment, why it would be discounted. Furthermore, the register of Scotland has been considered an assessing application. The planning service is satisfied that there are two additional houses within the farm-holding in 2010, 5,002 cottages, when it was acquired by the applicant. The planning service therefore asked for questions with regards to that and was advised that they are not in ownership of the farm-holding. And then the planning service has been accessed to the title of these, which has demonstrated that the agricultural land farm has in two cottages, referred to remains a contract were purchased in September 2010, and that nothing had transferred from the financial respect of the cottages at a time. So, Angel was approached with a comment and he advised by email that the land at the east of the public roads and the two cottages all change of hands between 2013 and 2016. In respect to the registered Scotland any transfer of land was being recorded as clearly stated on its website, and that a buyer does not have a legal right of ownership in the lands that they were purchased until the disposition is registered by the land register. Planning Service has considered that, owing to the length they find that it's relaxed, but no physical evidence can't report from the agent that planning service can arrive at no other conclusion that there are not two additional houses on the site as well as the farmhouse. There's no legal agreement or anything on who, where, for how the cottages change hands, and appear to be vacant and occupied at the time of the site, which is by the sort of additional information on the agent. Since then, since the planning report was finalized, then further looking into the relation of Scotland, and it is in public view, it is public view of paper information, there is evidence which supports the agent's email that land didn't transfer on the centre between 2013. Again, I'll show you that on the slides in a moment. However, the cottages did not form part of that transfer, which clearly suggests that the two cottages are in fact available. And in the absence of any other evidence for information and services, we have to assume that the two cottages are not available to you, haven't been in the farmhouse. As noted in policy, there is also an incentive for those which meet the allowance of the single houses associated with climate succession criteria of the viable land, so holding. So they're assessed in terms of primary worker, which is one of the points made in terms of submitted application, but there is also within application suggestion of retirement succession, so we have to consider both elements. We wouldn't naturally any of them, but normally it would be one avenue that would seek into respect to the reason for the house. But so it must be considered a retirement succession. The provision of a new dwelling on Wienfield land, as this application is, requires the comprehensive consideration of how an opportunity is available on the farm and in the immediate area, including those allowed in the policy or the policy mechanisms. It must be borne in mind that opportunities should be exhausted before building on Wienfield sites. In all cases, attributes must provide a succession and detail if you have the farmers to be succeeded, including a time frame of that succession. Armed formation of viability of an agricultural home, holding, noting that in some cases a business plan that accounts for the farm enterprise may be required, potentially the use of other existing accommodation in the area, and the potential for a rectangle is going on before the policy is in development plans. That's because it's a really exceptional criteria for retirement succession. So you can get a house with your lower policy, if that should be pursued first. In addition, the policy clearly states that house must be located within or in immediate vicinity to the main farm, both. And as noted, the site of the house is not again or immediate adjacent farm, both authority states in the boxes and one and a half miles away. There are also, it's just stated, provisions that two houses exist on the building and they're within more than distance, less than a hundred meters from the agricultural buildings. And again, we don't have any evidence of the country for what's stated on the rigid settlement. There's also no supporting information to when the succession will occur. And the house is noted to be for somebody, not for Eric to retire into, where policy does seek to enable a house that they retire into moving to. And it is noted that existing farm has in the site to provide accommodation over two levels. It's not a single storm. The supporting information in terms of primary worker doesn't demonstrate sufficiently before two workers, and it's noted that there is some works I'm sure. And according to Eric also has the foliage burn in addition to the farm holding. So therefore, based on information submitted and the lack of this information application fails to demonstrate comparative policy and respect principle development. There is also opportunity to explore the two additional houses. And in addition to that, the planning service is of the opinion that there is also a site much closest to farm hold between the farmhouses and the potatuses had the potatuses being chosen not to be in the same ownership, which would provide a suitable site to our house, which doesn't appear to have been considered in this occupation. Finally, in respect to site and in design, in terms of means of nature sites and the lack of other buildings, certainly in the sort of 3D form viewing the application on site rather than sort of on a map formed 2D. So contextually and in regards to its size, it would impact on the access and usability of the field for which it goes within an application complex with policy e2 landscape, policy p1 layout, sizing and design and policy to 14. Application has failed to demonstrate suitability on the site with specific policies at the place menu. So I will now attempt to share the presentation. Okay. So in textually, the site and stay is approximately a mile as a profile is from factor anglers. It's from the edge of the settlement boundary and the settlement value of the parameter is to then be sort of slightly. And as you can see, it's to the east of the A952 that's in this area again. This location plan is a site and well zoomed in one. So you can sort of see the relationship of the application site. And this is a site plan that's submitted in the application show a slide in a moment that shows the site in the context of the agricultural holding. But as you can see, there's a field to the north of the, our site is a small triangle piece of land which is certainly not, not utilized really. It's just sort of the edge of the field there. And then the remainder, the larger proportion of this is actually under trees. And you'll see that which does screen the site somewhat from the fields adjacent. This is a block plan which was submitted as part of the application. It is noted that it is planning permission in principle. So it is an indicative layout that the existing access into the field will be used. There is an element retained over a corridor in the line to gain access to the field. The focus needs to be on the information that in the applications like Andrew and not at WIG. And this is the overhead map taken from Bing. As you can see, the application site, it will allow for a corridor safe access to the remainder of the field. This is the triangle bit lands which in the foreign use of activity managed. And then there are areas of trees and that are to the west of the A9-22. And this again, this is actually taken from one of the supporting statements possibly sequential assessment. Either that or the labor need labor calculation. And the bottom right hand circle, green circle is the application site. This area here is covered in trees. And these areas are on this side as well. And this top, green circle top left is the main farm log. So as you can see, it is sort of remote. I think it's one and a half miles from the farm log as taken by the road. And this is a photograph taken from along the A9-22 and the application site is in this general area in here. And this is taken from the public road that immediately runs to the south of the site looking back as you can see the site. I mean, that's a positive urge. You'll see some meta photos in a moment as you can see the sort of selecting nature of the application site. And that's taken from within the site looking north and north birds to the field. That's east. There are no sort of houses immediately adjacent. You're actually houses sort of further into the north. And that's looking west and that's looking towards A9-22. And that's looking south of the site. This brown area here, this element is not where shown to be in the significance of this element here is just more trying than these lines. And this is a view taken from the west of the site near the entrance onto the field which would be upon the entrance into the above spot. And this is the A9-22 running on here. And this is just a video taken from within the field just to use some fun stuff. So it's intervening the lands and some within the farm holding some outwards. So this is sort of the tree, the road was dripping the bee road. And this is sort of the trees that are intervening between the parts of the lands and the main groundhog. And again, there are fields as you saw on that view, so if I head from Bing, that I'm not within the ownership of the... This is now starting to look towards the main farmhog. Again, just in a distance there. And there's another photograph just taken and possibly that field's linked away and from the farmhog where the... You can see that buildings, there's the farmhouse and there are the two clouds as well. That's a closeup of the two cottages, they are at the entrance to the farmhog. So at the time it looked like these were not occupied at the time and here are some buildings that are within the farmhog as well. And I mean, some of them are modern and the picture here shows just the edge of the farmhouse as well. And it's just various pictures that show the nature of the buildings after farming. This one's a bit quick because I'm always a bit conscious of how much memory of you doing might say. Just gives you an indication of this nature of the buildings and the farmhouses and just here. You can see the farmhouse provides a combination to that as well. Long building. (mouse clicking) This is... Sorry, this is... Was there too the potential for possibly the cottage and it's had been found not within the ownership of the African that there was a site and that was within the vicinity or indeed the farmhog is between the two cottages and the farmhouse here and it's in here and that didn't get explored. Again, from the early views, you can see how that would fit in with the buildings that are in the area. It'd also be within, certainly within 100 meters of the farmhog itself as well. And it would give that sort of overlooking in terms of the livestock. But I'll just say the sort of format that's in things to be these two cottages that are available as well. This is a video that's taken from the west of the main farmhog, I mean, the farm is there. And it's just a lot to show you some of the intervening land in between. So it's looking back towards that A9 by two parts given. I had on an arm, I would just show the committee this, but as I say, following conclusion of the items, we did manage to establish that the land with the two in the agent's email and transferred into the thousand, 13 that gave the cottages hands. These are actually three additional slides, I'm afraid. Slide 34 shows that in September 2010, when the edge state of the land was made, the yellow is sort of the land identified. But in the mind, it wouldn't include the beauty road and the dissects the site. But you can see it does include the farmhog, these two cottages and the farmhouse. And that's the register extract from the title deed. Again, in terms of as well. And looking further into this slide 36, does show and confirmed that agents email that land did transfer into the 13th, and then we did sure to locate this. But what it has shown is that actually the quantity of the transfer is the title, is outlined in red. So to conclude, there are many elements that consider as part of this application. As a primary work, there is no need for an additional dwelling house. It hasn't been demonstrated that there is a need. But holding with all its elements, including livestock, accounts for less than two, full-time equivalent labor units. And there's no information supporting viable farmholding for two labor units. And that sort suggests that it's not viable. We haven't got the necessary information in terms of the business plan to show the viability. In terms of retirement succession, the house is not at all within the vicinity of the farmholding for the location of the host house. There's no statement again on via mercy. And there's no detail of when succession would occur. The application states that houses for Billy and not for Eric, who is the retiring. The site of the house is remote and lacks visual connectivity from the farmholding, which is where the livestock is kept at times in the building and where the livestock was found to be grazing. But when modern agricultural buildings at the location of farmholders, site does lack visual connectivity, being on the periphery of the holding, and the field is to be located within its utilising crops. The basis of application is made up very much on the livestock animal, who's growing very well there, that's a good case. The house site would reduce the area of the land for crops is adjacent to the field. There are two other costages in the holding in addition to farmhouse. These low details of a next succession would occur. No time scale, no business plan, no information on business vibetency. The cartages within 100 metres of the farm log is possible to go to another site that hasn't been considered. And the actual chosen site is green field and it doesn't relate well to any of those sort of buildings on the site. So gloving the application is recommended for refusal for the reasons cited in section 10 of the community of all the community.
• Thank you very much, Sally. Mr. Squirt and Mr. Lohant, can I invite you up to table?
• Well, I invite you to address the committee and you have fine, it's important to thank you for any time. I teach you, I'm members, allowing me the opportunity to address you over the day and explain why we have submitted this proposal. Me as a contractor has been home to the Scots since 1963 and my grand brother, fuck people in the town of Z. And it's always been a farm left there. When growing up, my brother and I, just like my dad and uncle before us, they were always expected to do whatever we needed doing, helping around with our own. And it's fair to say that we would have never learned the village along speaking for the past 15 years. You never really read the farm. And I still help out in a week. We have not been a basis. Now, although my dad is 70 years old age, he has no intention of attending anything soon. And he's still at the forefront of all with both the farm and all his company, which currently employs five drivers. That says he does recognise that he requires more assistance from himself now. And particularly with the car old and the physical aspects of running the farm. And that's the main reason, but jointly we feel now is obtained to move by both. Therefore, that is a need for another farm worker. However, though they really pull you up, he is no intention of leaving the farm house which he has lived in for the past six, everyone year. And therefore the new house I will be for myself on my part.
• Yes, thank you, Chair. I'm a member for another meeting also today. And so although there is a slight element of fairment succession in the proposal, we felt it was key to demonstrate that the 1.5 full-time labor calculation units that was required as per made it with the support. And in reality, just the last few years, the adding Scott, Billest Dogwood, who've been the full-time worker in a billy provides an element to that. But that is no intention to move or fully retire. So there's no clear succession plot in place. But there's a clear need for living on the farm in regards. And that brings us to the site of the house and think it's the best slide above the screen just now. So the whole edge business is a construction. So it makes perfect sense for adding to the main there. And the first thing that Billy and I did when Billy approached us to see about getting the house where him was to drive the old farm city lift. So we drove over the split unit there. And we analyzed each area and found a proposed location was to build a suitable for a number of reasons. To suppose it's possible the bus route, particularly for Billy's wife and kids to access local services. Services are on site means more electric fiber broadband. Although not planned in reason, the views are great. Farm insecurity and the spot sees a good chunk of the land and where the only part of the farm land that really can't be seen from the farm hub as it was described as solid. And so those geographically split, it's a good fit for the actual farm operations. And the land is in notation. So although as said, the farm is in crock and it's often in the river back and vice versa across the farm. And especially been nice to busy me in road. You know, Carl did all this like to stay in our field. So it's very important that there's over sites as soon as possible. And there are four states that's two kilometers away from the hub. So that's how it comes in the travel two kilometers each way every day just to check this piece of land. Us with water farming communications are relatively easy and straightforward for them to communicate between the two. And topography of the site itself is, although there's a lot of slope in the front that spot shows in this quite flat, it's a bit of a plateau. And there's some naturally growing trees at the south of the site and the screen from the public road, which we intend to enhance it more fleet and treating around the river of London. Like it was a big issue, the farm. So it's highly describe the old triangular piece of land just across the roads, the gush it, new customer effort. And it's been far for flight event. So let them kind of, you know, be washed over. You just out all the time, really, hopefully stop that. And look at the site in the house further north in the site. Us, all they said, there was a house application a few thousand five away up in the north, east corner of the same field. But the great long-length access to the village is a suitable and billy approach that need us neighbors just to the north west of the site. And they said that they would make a house within their vicinity because to the north at the end there's a slope. So it would create privacy issues with the team as well. And potentially drain in your shoes as well when you go slopes and things. But the reasons that should, that above the focus that we're shooting, the land rises up behind the site. There's a bank of trees at the top as well. So in terms of visual impact, this relatively well screened. And there's a good bit of a natural setting there. And I'll just gonna summarize now.
• I'm sorry, and if you could just.
• Yes, but I'll just find that. So although it hints at the lack of evidence that we did go back in November and say about the COVID, it's not being owned by the farm. And if we're asked for further evidence, we could have provided this bill. They usually might email this morning and say that the COVID just aren't in the farm asset. So we could be provided or we could provide that if you so wish. And so I would just say that when the we feel that development is being proposed with the local development plan, we just need for the farm worker is clear when the site in the house is very suitable for the farm operations. Thank you.
• Thank you very much.
• Okay, members, any questions for Mr. Scott and Mr. Aquarius? I was like, I want these.
• Thank you. And so there's a 6.13 that there is other sites suitable. So if you thought that you could get planning vision closer to the farm, why choose this site? Is it because of the kind of protected nature of the pattern?
• Yeah, it was based on various things. I was trying to say as we initially went and had a look at the whole, all the various blocks you might want to go to the house. And particularly because of the local site, I mean, even all the services being available there and a huge problem of course, while tipping in that area. And we're just engaged with that. Better understand, but we come here and just know where we're actually trying to put in our commoners and their gates to try and stop that's we'll put two sites and those are the trees, particularly by it as well. And so we're planning to stop that. But primarily, although the character you've seen while of the land being crop, we do actually do a rotation. So that would be in grass stuff every 40 years. And again, having cartles right beside that E-952 and it's balanced on three sites. Sometimes we check twice a day. So having a house at the bottom of the album, being the farthest away from the whole scene aren't engaged for a planning so far.
• Yeah, so I mentioned a bit between the bigger system farmhouses and the cottages as well. But as you said, the huge storage house and the windows of that way. So it's too much to go over, look better. (indistinct) There's a reason for not particularly one to go in there.
• Okay, the cottage is then. So they're not in use at the moment and they're not going to buy the farm and they're proud of the one by my brother. And so yeah, there's never been an option given to me they even can set out out. So they all are doing better by the day started.
• Great, but that information isn't what we've got available, is that right? So we might...
• Well, I think it was us in November. I don't want to miss it, no, but just don't open my farm up, it's by the farm. They're on my bill as well. So we said no, but with us for evidence of that, we'll get some of these in a minute, yeah.
• So Thad, can I ask you a comment here, please?
• Yeah, so this information is new information in terms of it's not for the evidence and it's genuine and it's so in terms of, you know, relying on that today, it's not available. If you want to produce it, and certainly it's an important, you know, piece of document that would need to be evidence for them to see and actually see in person themselves, but you can't introduce new information today, but it needs to be go to the planning service for them to also consider and to record back to the committee on.
• Like I said, it was asked in by email back in November and we said, no, they're not owned. So it didn't enter them, but then the only other notification within it was up for the funeral. So rather than going through the process and looking to take a piece, you know, look at it, it's just all kind of evident to that, it's certainly weird off.
• I'm not going to know to provide that. I didn't realise it was on sound.
• Okay, Salih, can you come out?
• I don't know. I don't know, we've got any questions of the articles before I perhaps come in after we get to it.
• Okay, thank you very much. Okay, members should be able to have any further questions about this time from Mr. Scott or Mr. Ahard, please. No? Mr. Scott, Mr. Ahard, thank you for your presentation. Thank you. - Thank you.
• In any questions or council officers, please, sorry.
• Thank you, Chair. So obviously we just heard the presentation there in respect of there is no intention to retire. So the application is actually made on the basis of retirement succession of anti-private worker. So that has come as a bit of a shock if you like, but not withstanding, we've had to assess the application on both, which might explain why there isn't actually a retirement succession plan. So the application in terms of retirement succession does fail to complain. In terms of flight tipping, that hasn't been raised to the planning service, why this site has been chosen. Actually, that's not really material in terms of allowing a house in the countryside anyway, that's a contained residence. The house related to primary work are not a possibility of flight tipping, but there are some sites you can see that they've made the top action service boulders or anything like that to prevent people accessing the land. So that's not a reasonable reason about permission in this situation. There was a mention of use, it's a point site in terms of use, but again, that's not material and consideration, right? And the farm has itself is too story-y, yes. But actually, a house could be secured on the site within the farm book that wouldn't cause any amenity harm to that app, to the proposed house and existing house, so we'd certainly put it. In terms of the two cottages, I'm afraid we asked at least twice for information in regards to that. We asked in first, whether the cottages were owned and was told no. That's why then we went to seek, because the first thing you do in a adventurous department is you just pass off to put on that base to look. Now, it's just because of the proximity of the cottages to that holding and also their vacant nature, that made us ask, we always ask if there are houses that are associated with this, what we have to do, because we have to explore what are the options available. We asked the agent, the agent said, no, they're not just a simple note, and we then obtain the title deed, but then ask for more information and ask for the information you to demonstrate that they're not. So we have asked on at least two occasions, possibly three, by this notion, and we haven't got it. So the application has to be determined on the information that is before the members. There is an option that members could refuse application in terms of the recommendation, and there would be in battle of two or three go in 12 months that could demonstrate that information. It's noted there wasn't a pre-application advice, so fond of planning service before submitting an application as to the level of information that would be submitted, that would be necessary, and also sort of in terms of the direction assessment. We feel this special assessment hasn't really gone to sort of the last detail of that. And it is still the matter that registered the Scotland advise that there is no sort of legal change of ownership unless it's registered. The agent did confirm when we reviewed the title deed that lines had transferred and the colleges in 2013 and a show on the slide at the very end landed, but not the colleges. So there is no sort of legal basis on that fact to suggest that the colleges are not within of the act, or within the fine holding venue.
• Thank you, Sally. Yeah, I've seen an indication for questions. I do, concept, I will.
• Sorry, Sally. You mentioned the individual information on a business plan to live, and there would be a second farm. Was that right? I just wondered it. So my point being that we can't, if you want to expand on the farm, for example, you need more essential workers and can put a couple of holes. So if you work on the current basis, then you only need one work five or two. If you want to expand, you need more. So what comes to the first business plan, and then, like I said, you're on the road.
• But I can possibly train on certain lands, right?
• Sure. So what do you need? So crime read work. So the policy R2. So we're looking at NPS for policy 17 rural homes. We're looking at ALDP policy R2. And we're also looking at our planning advice as well. So interesting, it's just been suggested that the father Eric is not looking now to retire. So I would always look at legal advice there as whether that now has to be discounted, which actually sort of just a question. There's a lot of ambiguity with this application, which is again, why if I application sort, what is basis that application is meant on? The crime is a professional crime worker. In respect to primary worker, we have a labor need calculation, and that's done independently by a pen advisor and a book advisor. And it states that there is a need on the site for 1.5 full-time workers. So there isn't sufficient capacity for two workers. So there isn't a need then for a second house. And indeed, the livestock element is 1.09. So excluding the crops, because as many farm enterprises that exist where the house is remote from the fields, if you like, because there isn't that sort of animal respiratory welfare. So the information that's been submitted in support of the application, that's the evidence submitted to the planning service, all available, is that the polling is only, as a requirement of 1.5 labor units. So in terms of then viability, we need to know that we haven't got that information when it's surviving. We know that Eric works for, sorry, works as a haulage owner/runs the haulage business as well, which was suggested he works it part-time. In the presentation, we were told that Billy helps on a daily/weekly basis, but the submitted information says he works offshore and what helps on the farm when he's not offshore. So there's a lot of information and I'm afraid that's competing. And with that, that gives us no sound basis which is not an application. The cartridges appear to be in ownership. So we have no alternative, but to recommend refusal. If the Africans and wish to send in that information, there was plenty of opportunity during the present the application and went back with that case because of the factors and was asking for information. It is open to that applicants should, because of that information transmitted, it is open to applicants should committee be minded to reviews on the contents of the report and what you're hearing today and that they could come in with that information as if we go within 12 months and then furnish us the planning to service that information that it shouldn't be left of the committee meeting to be bringing up new information. And folks, the labor report submitted by and it's for an application shows one and a half, which is really questionable by themselves. And the application is also made on the basis of go down or possibly the whole bit of farm. It's quite remote, not just distance wise, but also visually there's no sort of connectedness. And the security of flight is not as a work of office.
• Especially if it's fairly in terms of succession of the business 70, so it's not good in full time forever. So if there was a succession planning here or something, so it might show that gradual ownership. But as you mentioned, there wasn't enough information in the business plan, so if we refuse today and then we need more information on the grounds that we need more information. What needs to be put into business plan, what are you looking for?
• That's really the by identity. And again, the other part of your question you can just remember was this credit, this idea of some notion of a second farm of as well. Yes, but that isn't what's before us. The whole purpose and supporting information submitted as part of this application is to judge the existing farm holding. You will talk about part and force almost what comes first. Our planning advice states well, where there is sort of a primary rural countryside need for a business that we look at temporary accommodation first, you know, Caroline or something like that to demonstrate that the business can end up up and running and then can come in with our house after demonstrating biodiversity. But actually this isn't an existing business. It already has agricultural buildings. So again, raised in a second farm club could actually create, you know, challenges in the future. But it's not before us. It's not what's for consideration before coming to say, it's not what was submitted to find and service. And that's what we're saying is a lot of them give you response and unfortunately versus application. It was quite challenging to try and assess the different elements, which is also why the presentation to community was quite detailed and lengthy because there were so many other important parts.
• Okay, thank you. No, like to open up for a discussion. And then after I'm turning them in, but consider that they have not received sufficient information if you're able to participate in the determination of this application, excuse me, please indicate via the hands-off function, please. Okay, Councillor James.
• Yeah, thank you, Chair. I'm just in terms of a bit of discussion more than else. I mean, I tend to agree with Sally that in terms of the ambiguity of what we're seeing for us. But I wanted to see a bit of clarity from legal and we've been presenting when you act information and get advice that we can't consider that it's material for the purposes of determination. And I guess with the contrary, we should be allowed in one officer's to go back and review this information before we issue a refusal and the same thing. And if so, I'd be suggesting we need to allow that process to go through some of those to refuse on the basis of the information as a whole. Thank you.
• So, Sally?
• Yes, certainly. You can, your options are either to refuse or to seek by the information if you enable the planning service to consider any new information is then submitted to them in the usual way and then they can be brought back to committee.
• Thank you very much. Councillor Famal.
• And my question was similar now. I'm not sure I had enough information. It's a bit of fair, fair luck in terms of cartridges, about alternative sites. I know it's not part of this information but the expansion of the farm, if that's what's happening and succession, whether it's part-time, whether it's farmers don't really ever retire, so. And we're, that's sort of planning and I don't feel I'm having enough information to make that decision today. I think that's my question.
• Yeah, I'll take Sally and then I'll take Councillor and Subson and then I'm gonna come back to you, Sally, please.
• I think we just had to be careful that in terms of additional information that could change the nature of application and that's what I want to say. So it might not be able to be considered under the merits of the grant application.
• Councillor, I'll subson, please.
• I'm finding this difficult because someone of a, you know, it's a similar retirement age. It's a very, it was part of looking for a nebulous concept. It might well be that Billy's dad is slowing down and could be half-time and that he becomes full-time. We don't know the time scale for that but the family, I in my view, are trying to plan for the future which is about sustainability and what I think planning is about. And so I am struggling about with this. I think if in the reality of what Sally said, we, I don't feel we look at enough information. I think in terms of what we've got from the planners at the moment, we would be always beauty down to the future but my instinct is that's not the direction that we should do it. So I do think we need to try and extract ourselves from this and get a bit forward that allows both parties to reflect on but not further information.
• Okay, thank you. So I could I take in terms of my family and then yourself or would you prefer to come in now?
• Yeah, can I just come in just now?
• Okay.
• And yeah, just to clarify, in terms of what Sally's saying about it, you know, changing the nature of the application, I think it's clear from what we've heard today that what the family presented is it's not a succession planning and they've said that into yourselves today. So the only exception that allows would be in terms of, you know, supporting the additional worker. And if that's the evidence then that you'd be seeking, I think we need to be clear about that, if that is what we're seeking. And so that the other exception is ruled out and you need to come out then as a new application if it is a succession planning because it's been clear to me that that's not what was intended.
• That's not clear to me that that's not what was intended because we started off a conversation about the age of the father being 17 and he might be saying he's not determined to retire but he will eventually have to do the tire as we all do. And I just wondered if there's any time skill in terms of succession planning application. Do we've got a time skill, for example, on that, if someone was forward and says, you know, my long-term plan, I'm thinking about you're downsizing my house. But I don't know when I'm going to do it. This gentleman's in the same position and it's probably I've tried to rally around him to support him with that. And in terms of the future of the business and the fact has been in the final basis in 1960.
• Well, can I take Stephen out there? Councillor Smith, that first.
• Thanks, Chair. I think in a similar vein, I think it seems a good example that maybe the limitations of the council's plan policy. So, except entirely, you know, what Sal is saying that under the policies that are planned about this to work to, which has got more relative to arrive at the recommendation at which she has arrived, hadn't said that's for the committee to decide. And I would have been more comfortable on this side and had the report not contained, you know, at least two instances of saying there's some confusion about this application. I would have quite liked to see that what we did first and before it came in front of us. As I say, I think it's a case of, you know, under policy, it doesn't fit into real life. And, you know, I've got a cousin who's got both done a full-time job, you know, working with a council. But even at weekends, he's, you know, off to the family farm, you know, helping out there, you know, where he don't want to live also to that particular farm there's no way he would get permission as a central worker or even succession because it's helping out somebody who is never a tyrant, isn't getting a hand on succession yet at least. But probably couldn't have worked the farm without that additional support. And in the situation we've got here, we've got somebody who also runs a whole nature business. And I would really say that, okay, it's 1.09 or 1.5 or whatever the labor requirement is, that somebody's going to have to adjust the business arrangements or the lifestyle accordingly. So I hear what's being said at the root game, additional information on defer to local members that are first going to be a deferral to get that information then fine would have been minded to push it further but take the sense of read the root. I don't think that we're generally oblivious with what about the information that would be involved. We can't accept to be, I think it would be helpful if we came back in other days where we're able to accept that and consider it when they reach a conclusion, that's true.
• Thank you, Councillor Smith. Councillor McCready, please.
• I'm just going to be back for clarification and I don't even know what I'm trying to ask so I'm even quite confused here but we're talking about succession. My understanding was when you have succession, this person who she sucks and you can speak but the person who's taking all the good and the main hub, this is not happening in this occasion so does that room like succession because they're not moving in the main hub. Does that make sense? 'Cause they didn't need it.
• Oh, that's one element of it, but it's just frustrating because we have that, in a kind of asking question, what is this application made on a basis of? And this is why we've had to form an activity because we haven't had that clarification in the life. In terms of succession, the house, the proposed house should be for the father to retire into. But as we've heard today from the applicant, all the applicants, 'cause I'm curious, just joining the organisation that's the farm that's supplied that there's no intention to retire. That doesn't then mean that another application couldn't be made at the time that Eric did think he might retire. That seems to be off the table, which I think legal advice did because although the application sort of made on retirement section, it wasn't made on the primary worker, it's made on quite a lot of things. But yes, in terms of retirement succession and that respect, it should be the retiree that goes into the proposed house and to allow that close management of the farm. Which is why again, there are just a pit of opportunities that are a lot closer to the farm of itself, which would then allow for that animal hospital in reality more well for anyone to be demonstrated, to be achieved without having to travel when a lot of miles back is employed for the whole.
• Thank you. And so to the level.
• So it's my last book, I've been reading it. You can add a bit of what is what is what I mean. It seems counter-intuitive to move the tattoo out for how it's probably been there for a long time or just build a new one for the family. Where it is itself, it's still within the facility of the farm, like you've rotated, so cattle are there. There's the main road access up to the farm. So I don't, if I was 70 years old, I would have to have to move out just the same onions. I mean, you know, go to the house rather down the road. There's been, I don't, that mean wasn't a consideration. It's more, I know as a Scotist, there's no succession, but I don't know if that's what you completely meant. You know, there's a, obviously, we need to come on shore and I don't want to stay off shore grade and help out. So I think maybe more clarification on that and given that time scale. And then that application is still based on some sort of, I agree with that. Sorry, it could just be left, you can't. If you're considering that, it wasn't clear that that was what Mr. Scott completely meant. So for me, it's still same. I'm not allowed to.
• Okay, thank you. Councillor Riberni, you'd like to come back. Sorry, just, I wasn't making an argument for a gentleman who moved from his house. I was just asking, would we plan on policy service? It was just my understanding that that was how it worked and I just worked for it. So it wasn't that it pushed people that it was.
• Thank you, sorry.
• I think an observation though, that we do take into account so, policy does seek that the house is for the retirement. And there are instances that perhaps it's need for our house and site in that situation. Again, if we see clarification, that's not what the house is for. But an understanding, we also have to consider then the sort of house itself as well. In though between floors, that's why I rate that consideration as well. So, you know, a new house that's designed could, you know, sort of provides that future proven, which is sometimes why it is, the house is needed for the retirement because you then not see, you know, your future proven, which in this situation, that's an older farmhouse style upstairs in there, you know, it's all the rooms, et cetera, not sort of modern build. So again, so that's why the house is not sure that Tyree is in maybe overseeing the story or if it's story and hardware, it might be, it's future proof that it provides those needs for, you know, sort of related to the welfare of the retiree.
• Thank you.
• Thank you. Okay, does any other member wish to input on this discussion part in this application? Oh, let's see, do an education. Okay, does any member wish to put anything forward to bring this program decision on this? Since I don't even need any further guidance comes from follow.
• Just that for me, I think having information would work to be there because it's more, more time to give, certainly times of succession planning, there's time to do that to come back.
• So, and it's coming forward?
• Yes, I don't know quite enough information to take it.
• Yes, to some quality and information that you are seeking then, just to make room or detail around what it is, you seek and from them in relation to the policies.
• The sixth world gets in regards to succession, time frame, and the plans, what to policy, is that moment? 70, early wage of policy, it's now the succession planning.
• Yeah, policy on to policy 17, then, so 10 or two.
• And is it just the succession planning, Sonia?
• No, you're working very well in terms of anything else you may want, but there's been some discussions around the titles and business plans that are in viability as well. Perhaps you just want to take time, I don't think.
• As the planning is made on both the basis of the essential worker and the succession, it would be helpful to have clarity around the essential worker cartridges with the time for that as well as the planning and viability of the business plan.
• Thank you, Sonia, you can take that motion. Thank you very much, Councillor SRI, please.
• Yeah, thanks, Chair, and I'll have you to second finish the panel, that we'll be able to get that information, and also to, so that the documentation referred to by the model of the model can be considered. And also, ideally, when the report comes back, it shouldn't have either fail and 2W in any confusion, at 6.9 or 6.10 within the time of the report, because that should all be bottomed by the time it comes back to us. Thank you.
• We have an amendment in motion. Yeah, I see no indication. So, Siobhan, if you can keep me right on this, so we have a 10, a recommendation. So, 10.1, the recommendation was to refuse planning, permission and principle for the following reasons. We have a motion from Councillor Powell, seconded by Councillor Smith, to request this report is deferred to obtain further information on information that has been presented today. And we also have a addition of 6.9 and 6.10. Yeah. To be looked at. Can you help me with the work that we've done?
• Yeah. Perhaps, do you want to just refer to what that additional information is that's been sold around the 3K elements there?
• So, we've got the cartridges, the succession plan, the viability of the business plan. So, apologies, it's been very confusing. And so, I would contend with that. We forward added fennel with the points covered. Thank you very much, members. We're there in the end. So, thank you very much for joining us and a new decision as added fennel. Thank you very much, Sally and colleagues.
• Thank you.
• Thank you.
• Just, yeah, couple of minutes, that's all right.
• Thank you very much, members. We're going to identify application E&Q two or two things, one, three, divide. Mythical site will be one's master plan. Addendum, can I ask Alan Davidson, senior planner to present this report, please, get more in an Alan?
• Alan, I think you're on mute. You've got your presentation all the time.
• Yes, I was doing my traditional, rubbing my tummy and patting my head and only got half of it done. Yes, thank you, Chair. This is, I'm going to start by saying this is not a plan on the application. This is an amendment to a master plan. And, ooh, it works. Yes, so it's an amendment to an existing master plan which was previously agreed way back in July 2017. And the slide I've went up in the screen in a moment is showing the location of the site. I'm sure most people are aware of it. It's the, this is, I'm assuming you can see my arrow. This is the OP-1 site, but if it's a slightly misleading, maybe this site in here, the one in the northeast corner is OP-2 and combined, there's a requirement for a master plan for the whole site. Now, as I say, the master plan was agreed in 2017 and in fact, I'm jumping a wee bit here. Works have begun in sight. We have the access points and just the requirement from the plan and the houses are getting built from the east to the west. So, what is a master plan? I started by saying it's not a plan on the application. Well, it's not, it's more of us at a high level document and it sets out the future development of the site. Mostly master plans are mixed use sites and it's effectively without using a plan in jargon. It kind of allocates what goes where and that will be apparent in a second. So, you know, if you want to be able to do that, you can put the other elements of the, what's required. So, it kind of allocates, let's say what goes where and that will be apparent in a second. So, why the master plan? Why is the master plan required? I've kind of mentioned that already. The settlement statement for mental law. There's an OP one, well, an OP five, there's 50 houses and OP one, 500 houses. There's business, there's community, or services for the elderly, retail and business. So, that's all to be in here. So, why the amendment? Well, the amendment is because there is no longer a need for the school. This is the agreed 2017 master plan and what you see here is that the school was to be located in this corner here. OP five is still houses business. This was a retail, this was a care room and houses basically spread right along the south hand side of the site and there was a sort of more formal open space here. So, what's in front of the members today, is there's two sides to the recommendation. And this is that one is the agreed approach taken in relation to the layout. And the kind of design this should continue because we have got a master plan to inform subsequent applications. So, really, what this slide here is saying that we would expect neighborhood center over here, residential along the bottom, big strips and barns of landscaping throughout, access point, which is already down this here, business here, this is a care home, roughly here, we do have any more details at this stage. It's a broad brush stroke of how they see the development, the whole development coming forward. So, the repeat, it's the agreed approach has been taken and as the approach has been taken pretty much since day one. The second one is the master plan would then become a material consideration in the assessment of the applications. So, at this point, the document here, they've kind of got a rough idea what they're doing. The second aspect of that is that all future applications, this is a consideration amongst others for the determination of the applications. So, what that would mean is the master plan is a material consideration, but then Sue is MPF4, master planning framework for the Aboriginal local development plan, 2023. Responses from consultees, environmental health roads, et cetera, all have to be considered as part of any subsequent application. So, what we're seeing here, I suppose it's almost like one of these kid games where you look at contrast the previous toll, the present. I think that the headlines really are, but what we see here is the business neighborhood center, the school which was to be here is now business stroke industry, which that means will be used classes for five and six, so it can be office, general industrial storage and distribution, likewise here, the more formal open space that was here has been gained over here. It's fairly similar to what was agreed in 2017. Labor in a point somewhat, but this is just a material consideration for a planning application and planning applications will still have to go through the rigorous investigation that all planable applications will go through. So, I won't label the points any more. I'd like to say that we agree with this approach. There is no point in having a gap site for something that isn't needed, hence, there's an alternative use. The one thing I will point out, however, is that in terms of the settlement statement for mental law, there's still a requirement for a school, will that be in the future? We do not know, but what we have been advised by education is that there is a new requirement. I can give you a little bit of information on current schools, the rule forecasts, and basically mental or primary school is projected by 2028 to be at 78%, but fewer at 81%, which demonstrates that there is capacity at the school. OK, thank you. Thank you very much, Arlen. Members, any questions for Council officers? Councillor Powell. Thanks, Ellen. I've just a couple of questions, really. First of all, I think it's great. We've got some more opportunity for some modern business units at the Redmond Centre, which is great. Just two questions. Who would only be in these centres? Would they come to Abilijo Council? We would rent them, or they would be privately owned. And I just wondered, I know it's 2017, now, but I've wondered in the future that whether we even need the care home given that we've got lots of spaces in ours currently, but, yes, that was a side now, I suppose. But, yes, who owns these units? That's a great unknown as it stands. We don't know, the master plan is kind of-- it's almost putting it in your back pocket. That's a site for business, or that's a hope for the site for business. But it's up to something to come forward. We really don't know. It could be the Shire, it could be somebody, it could be speculative. It truly depends. And in terms of the care home, that might well go through the same process, it might. If it's not required, it could take the view to do an amendment through the master plan, or it might be that in the creation of the next local development plan, which kind of-- the policy plan is what trying to put the need, which puts the need for mint law to be reflected in the allocations. It might be removed, we really don't know. But planning should be fluid enough to be able to react to the situations as they change over time. A master plan is a long term document, which made me last years, so it has to have elements of flexibility. Thanks, Anya. That's good to hear. And I think we are all being flexible here, and I agree with your proposals. And just my only other comment was that it's fantastic to see that education is a commitment to for a developer officer. And maybe we can see some big new facilities. It can be as a result of this development, so our support, these obligations go into our local facilities. So that's great. Thank you. Thank you. [INAUDIBLE] Just a quick question and a quick sort of point as well. First one, and why you will no longer need the school, just so I'll explain it for the next week. And the second one would be when the road is-- if that railway is this sort of main routine, and that sort of turning, that's much a circle, but a square. How much flexibility would that be? If one that would have a second-way angle in this scheme, at the far end, I did something that would rather see in these pictures at the end of time, because I can see a lot of people looking at this. Interesting. It makes no sense to just involve all that distance and all the way back down, especially with work, so they would work. So at some point, I thought you got no of that all kind until June and now. Yeah, Holland? I'll take the second point first, I think. Single point of contact, I'm assuming what you mean is why is the whole site effectively being serviced by the one access point. In the central statement, there is also a kind of desire for one up here, serve the OP5 site issues. I'm trying to remember, add in the road, is that right? [INTERPOSING VOICES] [INTERPOSING VOICES] Difficult to widen it would result in a bit loss of trees, et cetera, et cetera, but the road engineers have designed this in such a way that this is-- sorry-- well, going the wrong way, that roads are satisfied that this arrangement will work, especially with the wee feeder up into here. I'm not a road engineer, but the roads are happy. In terms of the why you knew a school, well, the school rules are-- a school rule is a kind of estimate. And they get an estimate from different sources. So they would go to the local NHS surgery and see how many kids under five are in it. They look at the nurseries. They also do look at the number of houses it's allocated. The policy plan is consult with-- it's no surprise they consult with NHS and education and other organizations to say, will there be an issue if we allocate 500 houses in mental or-- and they work the estimates of what the school rules will be off of all that information. It is an estimate, but they are obviously comfortable that there is no need for a brand new school, because you have to reach a critical mass of-- you know, it's not enough for the two primary schools to be 99%, because you build a school that's nobody in it. So you have to have enough houses being built to justify it. But the-- with the numbers that are getting built, they obviously are comfortable. And it's education. That decision's already been made. That there's no need for a new primary school. I-- another lot of statistics here. I've got the completions in mental law. So this is a number of houses that are completed every year. And it gives you an idea. I think when you drive past places, you think, oh, there's dozens or hundreds of houses being built. But in 2018-- so it's-- you know, it's before the pandemic. There was 11. In 2019, there was seven. 2020, during the pandemic, only 22, and 2021, there was 30. And 2022, there was 36. So there's been roughly 100 houses built in one, two, three, four, five years. So although the estimates have increased over time for 30 to 40 houses, and this is for this site and northwards. So education are taken in a sense of consideration, and they've made the decision. I think it's not a plan and decision that there's to be no school. I think is what I'd say. But we are steered by our colleagues. But there's no point in obtaining a site that isn't going to be used. It's as well being used for the North Island, if you use. OK, thank you. Can I ask one tricky quick question? What's on that line? Just now? OK. I have a-- so I think this photograph is a little bit out of date, because I think these houses here, but at least some of them are built. So this here is where-- well, I'm going to develop for this. This here is where they're building at a moment, as you see. I mean, it gives an idea how long this will take. This is going to take 10 years, 20 years to build out at the current rates. OK, I'm good. Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Ainsett, please. It's just a couple of comments, Alan. Thank you. I can remember being horrified that there was actually a school site being put into this master plan as the risk for Northwoods, which event that village under 3,000 people with a full primary school, so it strikes me as an answer. We had some statistics last week that said that the not to nine population in middle law has dropped by 30%, so I'm not surprised that there's no need for another school. But I did want to mention it. And Councillor Powell's already alluded to it. It's that flexibility. And I also like the fact that there won't be spaces in the landscape of this. It's been kept having been around that state recently on basically that loop that Councillor Crowsman was looking at. It does seem to work. And the houses are fairly-- they're pretty well spaced. And there's lots of game spaces. I've had an attractive place to live. But I agree, I think it's going to take a huge amount of time before either Northwoods is finished or indeed this south sea bit is finished too. But welcome to flexibility. There are quite a number of people asking about business units in middle law. So I hope some developers came to build them, not necessarily one corner, but I can't see the Council doing it in our capital situation. But there is definitely a request for them from some of the constituents and others around. So thank you. Thank you very much, Councillors. Do you have anything further to add, anyone? Councillor Rosin, Simpson, Legacy Hanks? Yes, sorry. Thank you very much. Let's find that education is on this matter. So the committee is recommended to 1.4.1. I agree, the master plan, addendum for site will be 1-ment law as the context for the general layout and approach for subsequent planning applications. And 1.4.2, I agree, the master plan, addendum for site will be 1-ment law to be used as a material consideration in the determination of any subsequent planning applications. If you thank you very much for your input, we will move on to item six, please. South street mentor, speed limit review. And I asked Martin Kanbop, engineer and Jonathan Sharp, Councillor Woods, engineer, to take us through this report, please. Good morning. Thank you, Chair. This report follows on from the previous report to committee from the 1st of November, 2022. To note, the petition dated 31st of August, '22, in which local residents had asked the Council to implement a treadmill in our speed limit, as well as parking restrictions specific to South street and mint law. The committee therefore instructed the report from the heads of road to an infrastructure on the subject matter of said petition in terms of standing order, 6.4. This is the result in end petition for committee's information and noting in relation to current Council policy. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll open it up to members now, please. That's the questions. That's the answer to that. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to comment on the 1st of the recommendation, which I don't think that the 2nd sentence of that is necessary that no further action would be taken when actually we're saying that further action will indeed be taken once we actually roll out the new 21st national in its speed limit across Aberdeenshire. So I would propose that we actually remove that sentence from that 1st recommendation, please. The one that starts there is there for it. I haven't said that. I will commit. I will have to be done anything in terms of petition, in terms of extra road signs, which is what people were asking for. Guardian, do you want to come back with that? No, I think the petition asked for the 2020 signs, which goes against current kinds of policy. They're no longer used by us in regard to parking either road markings. We deemed it unnecessary due to the enforceability of the elongated age markings that people's drives. And parking at junctions was also deemed unnecessary to implement further double yellows because it's covered in the highway code. Thank you. And we have proposed on the Councillor, since then, that in 1.2.1, the last line is recommended that no further action is taken, be removed. As in 1.2.2, it's covered that the Aberdeenshire Council will work into implement Scottish Government's national treatment by the Repro Club by 2025. It's specific to what proposals are still being developed. Does that cover your proposal, Councillor? I think so, because when that is rolled out, that then the speech sounds that the petitioners made to should be addressed by work that is already in train. We just don't have an exciting time scale for it, but it just, I'd therefore think, we shouldn't have something that says there'll be nothing done because there will be something done. OK, thank you very much. So, we've had to pause the word of the table for motion. Do we have a second, please? Councillor Powell, please. Yes, a second. Thank you very much. OK, so 1.2, the committee is recommended to 1.2.1, consider it to an email with our limit and associate issues contained in the petition with respect to Aberdeenshire Council's existing speed limits policy, Transport Scotland Act 2019, Android Traffic Act 1988. The line it is recommended that no further action is taken is to be removed. 1.2.2, note that Aberdeenshire Council will be working to implement Scottish Government's National 29-hour programme by 2025, specific programme proposal that shall be into that. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for joining us. Garden and Jordan, then, thank you. Members, I suggest you take a 10-minute comfort rate, please. Thank you very much. Please, I can stop the recording. Well, come back at 11.50, please. OK. Mm-hmm. [BLANK_AUDIO]

Transcript

So we move on to item 7, Bahran area committee budget, 24 and 25, can I ask Amanda Rowe area manager? How do we need to take us through the support? Thank you Chair. Each you as area manager, I seek direction and I'm driven from committee on the dispersal arrangements for the area committee budget. For several years the process of dispersal has been largely unchanged. Melody will be away from our celebration of success events that the money that the committee grants to communities and projects of cross-pocket enables foster outcomes within the communities and often leverage design significant funding to enable community groups to be ambitious for the communities. This year following the year of how the funding has been practically distributed in the last couple of years, some changes are being proposed which are local support communities to continue to deliver projects and activities locally but we'll also have community groups established or fledging fledgling to develop capacity by making easier to access grants. Committee has always been supportive of allocating villages and towns across bucket with funding looking to support planting, green and unbiased diversity and I would propose that committee continue to allocate 17 and a half thousand of their funding for this purpose. Whilst in previous years this has been an alternative dispersal, it has proposed to ask community groups to apply for up to £1,000 or £1,500 per cent to head and that's area manager I am getting validation to determine applications and award the grants as appropriate with any monies on allocated by November returned to the committee budget for dispersion on current ways. The reason for the change is to enable communities to decide how they wish to the use of money and how much they actually need. If agreed communities would still be encouraged to participate in buck and bloom which celebrates the hard work of the volunteers to support the funding and greening of our towns and £1,000 of their committee budget is recommended to be paid to buck and development partnership to deliver that award to the committee. As in previous years it has proposed to give a significant part of the budget to the project grant scheme which is supporting on account committees behalf by buck and development partnership and for a financial year 24/25 it is suggested that £40,000 is allocated to that grant scheme. As in previous years community across buck and would be able to apply about 80% total cost per project or £5,000 which ever is the way set. The grants would again focus on supporting projects that demonstrate wide community benefit and enhance the local area and perhaps supporting improvements such as the appearance of the times and villages, health and wellbeing of residents, adjusting socialisation, supporting community businesses and social enterprises and supporting the transition towards a just transition. However, recognising that some community groups can find a daunting to apply for grants particularly if they are seeking only a small amount of funding, it is proposed to allocate £7,700 to a smaller grant scheme which would allow groups to apply for a maximum amount of £500. This scheme would have a simpler application process and would be delegated to the area manager to award in consultation with the award members for the award the community group is allowing to. Committee will be aware that the council is developing its place strategy and that we are well under way with the development of the next local development plan. One way for a community to ensure that any planning and special design issues are proposals for the use of land and the place that they live is taken into account in the LDP or a place plan is to prepare a local place plan. Buck and development partnership is already supporting with funding to help communities with community action plan. However, because of the newness and nature of local place plan, there is a proposal to allocate £3,000 to the area manager that can be used to support communities who are keen to develop a local place plan. Grants of up to £500 would be available and the area manager will devise award members of any grant applications for the award. Finally, to propose to allocate a small contingency fund to the area manager, a maximum of £2,000 to support any unforeseen costs at area level that are committed with the support of all such as civic receptionists. These proposals will fully despare the £71,200 area committee budget. Any awards made would be subject to following other payments as christening, appropriate to the value of funding and project grant scheme. All applicants will continue to be asked to discuss their application in the first instance with Buck and development partnership to support them as necessary to ensure the greatest chance of success with their application. If all recommendations are approved, project grant scheme and small grant scheme will be advertised widely following the best committee with a closing date for applications on the project grant scheme would set as the 26th of May 2024. Should any money be on allocated following that first round, a second round would be open in summer with a deadline of 18th August 2024. Members that are also cut off points for the various other grants that we are recommending, this is to ensure that any money that community group cannot spend for whatever reason could still be redistributed. I am happy to take any questions or comments. Thank you very much. I am not going to say first please then Councillor COWELL. Thank you Chair. Just what it is to be thought of, I am going to ask the information we put out here to the community councils. I don't know that would include associations as well, so something that is sort of simplified is possible after they notified them of their changes and ask them to put that information up to this meeting and it is distributed widely, it says distributed widely, but noting has also made it clear that that 500% smaller scheme doesn't have some of the same requirements to match and also that if any community group is looking to access funding but that initial upfront spend might be a challenge that we absolutely need to get to talk about the partnership or ourselves, we will work with them to ensure we can support with our ambitions. Thank you very much for clarifying that Councillor COWELL. By that two points I am just going to say thanks for that's a crowd of people 4.15 so that we do get that in, we think it is very important and I am just, it was exactly the same point, Sunday 26th May I only guess four weeks, so it is a really quick time to turn around, so a simple flyer that we can share as well and be really useful by the end of a week really because then that is going to give them three weeks back to do it. Could we get a time then? Thank you. Bonjour, I am very happy to note that and progress off this week. Thank you very much, so we will have that out before I do. I have to put it on the spot, I have to put it on the spot before planning, thank you very much. Any further comments on the best paper? No, thank you very much. Okay, I have worked and I am going to read through the recommendations just so we are clear on the mob. So two recommendations, the committee has recommended to agree that this investment after behind in the estimated budget, two weeks, seventy-one thousand two hundred in the financial year, twenty-four, twenty-five, this follows. Two point one that the Brighter behind the initiative they set at the maximum of one thousand per village town with exception to Peterhead to be set at a maximum of one thousand five hundred and that seventeen thousand five hundred be ring fenced for initiative with determination of the applications being delegated to the area manager and that any money should be in an available as an effective November twenty-twenty-four automatically transferred back into the Buckingham area committee project grant scheme for a disinformation or a disinformation, sorry, two point two that three thousand is allocated to provide grants of up to five hundred to assist community groups with preparation of local place plans, with determination of the applications we delegate to the area manager and that any money is remaining available as an effective November twenty-twenty-four automatically transfer back into the Buckingham area committee project grant scheme for a disinformation. Two point three, a contingency budget of two thousand is retained to cover hospitality under any unforeseen events and that this will be delegated to the area manager to disperse appropriately. Two point four, one thousand pounds, be allocated to behind the development partnership to deliver in the Buckingham Bloom scheme and two point five that the remaining forty-seven hundred from the area committee budget is allocated as follows. A forty thousand is devoted to the Buckingham area committee project grant scheme to be publicized and developed in times in the fucking development partnership and that seventy-seven hundred is to be put towards a fucking area small cloud fund with the funds being set at a maximum cloud of five hundred per hour creation and the authority of the cloud to be delegated to the area manager and consultation with local board members. Thank you very much. The move on to eight to eight closed days Scotland fund, but in coastal communities commission starts due to twenty-two twenty-seven updates by the year three. I'll come down then. Can we ask you on the modest in our project office? Take us through the support, please. Thank you Chair. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good afternoon Councillors. I'm pleased to be able to present the summary of year two commission through the crown estate Scotland fund coastal communities commissioning strategy for back-end along with a summary of priority projects identified for year three. An impact report for year two commissions is included as appendix one to the report. The commissions were awarded across three of the four possible priorities in coastal communities program, namely development of the coastal economy and sustainable tourism, heating or enhancing community layer or recreation facilities and safeguarding the stoning of enhancing the coastal environment. There were no commissions related to final priority, sporting the development of active travel routes along to and from the coastline. For each project in year two, a relevant priority within the buck and community plan was also identified and these are noted in the summary table at the end of the impact report. Year two commissions were agreed through various council services and directly with a small number of independent organisations even as grants or contracts. Councillors will note that not all projects have reported on an impact. Some of the later commissions were completed only in March and therefore staff still have time to submit the monitoring information. When monitoring information is submitted, the impact report will be updated and finalised. The funding allocation available to buck in was increased late in 2023 from £41,403 to £82,524. Despite this late change, it was possible to fully commit the allocation against a total of 14 projects. For year three, utilising the allocation for financial year 2324 as believed by millions Scotland, £94,404 is allocated and sorry, is to be allocated and spent by the end of March 2025. Six priorities for commissions have been identified with a total value of approximately £80,000. But it should be noted that one project, proving by community assets, is to conclude the project full phase supported in year two of the programme. The community group experience delayed due to a particularly complex conveyancing process, meaning there is a balance of work to be completed in this financial year. Two projects will require updated project costs before proceeding. Seasonal access, Ranger Commission is subject to the confirmation of match funding. Once that much funding is secured, we have confirmation we will be able to update the cost provided. The Peterhead Forum Tower project has uncertain costs at this time. Discussions have taken place with community lead organisation about the scope of this initial exploratory phase and a further update will be provided when a project brief has been submitted. Two projects build upon the support in the year two of the Strategy for East Buck and Coastal Environment, a second phase of access improvements at Scotland Beach and the installation or refurbishment of interpretation at Scotland and actually head beaches. These improvements can now be brought forward due to the essential repair and enhancement works having been undertaken in the spots from each crop. Finally within this year, a small grant programme has been suggested to support events in coastal locations. This has been considered a community assessment has been brought forward at this time and have approved today these small grant applications will be decided by the area manager in order of their agile energy response community lead. There is still a significant balance of £76,404 to be allocated and there is potential for this amount to reduce however once the costs of two of those six priority projects have been confirmed. It is therefore requested that further commissioning awards are delegated to the area manager in consultation with chair and vice chair as has been released in two years. The area manager's team along with Buck and area management team will widely or continue to identify and monitor potential projects that support the delivery of the strategy and release forward. Expressions of interest can be submitted using the form accompanying guidance which is published on the Buck and funding pages of the other danger council website. Councillors may wish to note that at least one expression of interest has been received since this gave awards drafted and that there have been further enquiries which may result in further expression of interest coming forward. As with previous years of this strategy, regular updates will be provided throughout the year, commissions awarded through the delegated route to the area manager to Councillor be minded to accept recommendations for them to speak. I'd like to have to take any questions. Thank you very much. I am there for presenting the report. You have not additional information. Councillor James, please. Thank you, Chair. It's more comments, really the question. To this point, I'm not really good to see the wide range of projects. That is the board across Spoken. That's right away from being up to some terms, so I really can see that. I'll read a few things a little bit how it really is. It's the encourage and see that all these are community-led projects rather than just that. I also know that investment in local facilities and the coastal locations and the potential for these communities to be supported and taking our ideas forward. It's encouraged to see. It's particularly important to highlight the opportunities that have been taken to add value to these projects. That's included in our opportunities. For young people, for having their community participation and intercity making, it's been back forward. I think probably, it's quite like when I'm really good at the board. It's the ongoing work since it's got some reach. It's fantastic to see that as we look forward to the opportunity to be able to be over the next round of one minute as well. It's really just thanks for your support. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Chair. I'm just in Scottston Beach. I'll be with that. Has there been any work done already? I'll be going to the back. Yes. The substantial works have been completed to upgrade the car park. As you know, there were significant additional issues with the car park. The bulk of those works were completed by the end of March. However, due to the greater conditions, it wasn't possible to finish within the financial year. The last update I had was that there was some timber edging to be installed, and that would mark the completion of the car park works. There are some additional elements of work needed for some minor road repairs, and that's the second basis, included for year three, as we discussed. It was not possible to undertake those works within the same financial year as we needed to complete the car park works, first of all, which would obviously have impact on the road being used before those minor road works could be absolutely good to do those at the right point within the season in this particular financial year to complete that schoolbook access. Thank you. Thank you very much. Members, do you want to bring this up for a little bit? Okay. Thank you very much. I'm sorry, I didn't manage to get my end up in time. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, just a comment about that. There's quite a lot of money left. There's not a lot of it committed, and I suppose I'd be concerned that when that resource is actually there to support community activity, that we don't use it. Now, I know you're talking about listening and all the rest of it, but again, I just want to know how we get that out to community groups in a wider way. Have we, for example, let our range of arms action know that this money is available? And I wonder if the development worker in Buckingham might be able to spread the words in that, and what's coastal, so it doesn't do any impact in central bugging, but it seems a shame that it's there, and it's when things are so tiny that we don't actually need the best use of it, that we can't. There's lots of bugging has this as well? And on your first point, yes, absolutely. We can do a further round of opportunity. Now that we've talked about projects, we certainly would like to do that as a matter of course, we've been social media channels working with our colleagues in button development partnership and future voluntary action. It's also the reason that we've gone down to publishing the expression of interest along with the guidance, but it's always available. That also allows our colleagues in the various opportunities, services, working communities to send post-organization. And each of the four coastal areas within Aberdeen share have an allocation of the same allocation, same proportion with the overall and allocation to Aberdeen share from within the graduate state budget. However, each area does the actual allocation slightly. So each area will be similar and the themes are similar, but the actual processes are determined by the discussion of the area community that we are seeing. There is the opportunity, however, to go to work alongside our neighboring areas in particular and to commission activity jointly, so if there were areas of interest, be shared by neighboring communities across different areas, and that's something that the area managers could discuss. We have a ways to do work here. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Al. But all the work your team has done, I think, who consults James. It's a wide range of projects that are being supported, and it's really encouraging to see the community-like projects coming forward and look forward to future projects. So 1.2, the committee recommended to 1.2.1, note the additional funding allocation of 94404 for 2224 from the Scottish County State Marine Coastal Community Fund and a green option provided by Scottish Government to extend the spend of this allocation to 2425. 1.2.2 is note to the report appendix 1, a projects commissioned in year 2 of the behind coastal communities commission strategy, 2022 to 2027, appendix 3, 1.2.3. Discuss and agree the priority projects for year 3 of the strategy appendix 2 are reconciled with us. 1.2.4 agree to delegate the allocation of 5,000 to the area manager to support events in coastal communities. I agree. Thank you. 1.2.5 agreed to continue to delegate a board of further individual commissions with the exception of those supported under recommendations 1.2.4 to the button area manager following consultation, chair, and vice chair of button area committee. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Eleanor. So I tonight will move to draft Aberdeenshire community of resilience framework. Can I ask any government project or such to take us through this report? Good afternoon. Can I hand over to yourself? Thank you, chair. Good afternoon, everyone. Committee, you have before you today the draft Aberdeenshire Community Resilience Framework, which has been developed as a result of a recommendation from both our internal debrief and community engagement exercise following the 2021-2022 Winter Storms. The recommendation was for an overarching document which would define the role of responders in an emergency to enable community resilience groups to understand where they fit in and what their role could be in an emergency situation. The draft framework is the product of extensive engagement with community resilience groups, input from a cross-service and sectoral working group, including area team representation, police, fire, and utility company colleagues, feedback from the Community Resilience Conference in October, and best practice identified elsewhere. Operational detail is deliberately not contained within this framework. Rather, this is a document to understand position and purpose in an emergency situation, to enable community resilience groups to enhance and complement the work of the services and of the council. It is not an operational plan, and that level of planning and detail, the who does what when, is dealt with by council emergency plan, those of the emergency services, and together with the Grampian Local Resilience Partnership Response and Recovery Arrangements. The aim is to help people help themselves, the household, family, and community, by supporting people to build down their skills, providing and sharing information and knowledge so people can make their own decisions, providing advice and signposting to appropriate equipment and resources and helping community resilience groups when it comes to setting up a community resource. This will be achieved through a set of accompanying advice notes and templates, many of which have already been written and shared and are currently available on our website. The framework recognises that one size doesn't fit all and that communities may be at different places on what we're calling the continuum of engagement, and that's based on the level of risk that they face or the capacity within their own community. Some may seek to limit their involvement to the dissemination of information, others having, for example, face significant impacts in past weather events and recognising the need, the ongoing need, will be much more engaged when it comes to community resilience, collaborating on the establishment of community hubs, for example. Resilience in an emergency is everyone's business. This draft framework, which will evolve over time as we learn and experience more, is a stepping stone to helping and supporting individuals, households, families, and communities improve their resilience. I'd be happy to take any questions from me. Thank you very much, Amy. I have one question. Do we have any feedback from any other behind community councils so far on this part? I understand from Theresa that there has been one response this far, which has been favourable to the framework. They've been asked to come directly back to the area team rather than to ourselves and the area team will feed into the risk resilience department. Thank you very much. One other thing I note, it is operational, Councillors are also available at the same post as well. I expected Councillors to have a small mention in it, but possibly because it's operational, just to say a comment. Thank you. Hi, Councillor, please. Thank you. I saw this at communities and some of the comments that didn't make there because of our state or area. Apologies. I'm a bit of a proof reader and there's quite a few mistakes. I'm going to go a little bit slightly on the top. Purpose and benefits. I've paid one, one, two bullet points at the capital. I don't start at the capital, I've got full stops at times, sometimes not. I like the links. I think that's really helpful. On and out principles, there's the wording also by under capacity, also by the provision of equipment, facilities and infrastructure. That sentence doesn't quite make sense to them for stop. Under capability, and again, this is the capital letters under the house of these families and communities that shouldn't have a capital letter. So generally, through the document, I found lots of those. I found it quite wordy as a resident reading it. What am I taking out with this? I'm not sure. I'll pay charm on five. The sentence under tools for building capacity, the short sentence there can be many challenges and difficulties that does a quite very theoretical sense. I wondered under that, do we need to include things like what I really want to know is where can I get a sandbags problem, for example. I couldn't see where to find that and maybe that's for another document. I like that. I do like the way it said town, not being completely negative. We need something like this. But as a resident, I think it's too wordy. I'd like to see where I go, just keeping it a bit more simple. But yeah, I appreciate the graphics. It's going to definitely draw people in. I've been approved reading a bit wordy for me. Any of you would like to respond to any of that? Thanks. We'll look at those grammatical issues. In terms of the sandbags, yes, there is a separate document and a device note on flooding and there's obviously a link on the website as well, which tells people what to do in a situation where there's flooding. As things are reviewed, then obviously we don't want to include them in the framework document if there's likely to be a change there. They're kept separately on the web link and on a separate device note. Okay, thank you. This isn't the ones that document there's others as well, which might be a few residents, but hopefully not. Thank you. There's a section on the website for individuals, and there's also a section on the website for groups. It'll be clear on the website, what's for an individual and what's for a group. I imagine that this document will be used more by community resilience groups than by individuals in a community. Okay, thank you very much. Robert, in front of the comments of the questions. Senior Education, thank you. The committee is recommended to 1.2.1. It's such a discussion of the debate, comments on the draft number of these young community resilience framework at Appendix 1 to the Community Committee. Thank you very much Amy for joining us. Thank you. Okay, then, first of all, item 10, donations policy. Can I ask Carlin what strategic financial manager to take us through this report, please? Thanks, Chair. As you've got in front of you today, a draft of the Council's donations policy and for consideration and comment. In accordance with the policy development and review framework, all area committees are being asked to consider and comment on the draft policy before it's finalized and presented to business services committee for approval in June. This is something that was initially raised through an internal audit report where strategic finance were recommended to review and update, updating new on donations to ensure that there's a consistent and transparent treatment across the Council. We've included within the paper a copy of their company operational procedures as well for members reference. This policy has been developed with input from colleagues in finance, legal and in live life abadinsure and as part of that consultation we noted that it is already policies in place within L.A. in relation to managing management materials as part of the Council's collection within its museum services. So this draft policy has been developed to complement that so it doesn't replace it and instead this policy is more focused on what the traditions are of cash donations. The donation could take various forms and can be received in a number of methods so it could be online in cash or through the legacy and the timing of donations and amount received can also vary so it's important to have that clear policy and supported by operational procedures to ensure that they're all accounted for on a consistent and comparable basis and whilst managing the risks or any potential risks to the Council. The detailed operational procedures have also been developed which incorporate the need for donations registered that will be maintained and annual reporting on any donations that aren't received and how they've been spent. The policy also sets out some general donation principles around the acceptance of donations specific instances where the Council, master or may need to refuse any donations offered and also stop their aim but happy to take any comments or questions anyone has. Thank you very much Councillor Schmuth please. Thanks Chair and thanks very much for the report. Just a small thing in page 137 on the checklist 1.6 line 2 there's a typo that's not what I was going to raise though. Under where we're asking people what specific service or activity do they want to support. I think it would also be helpful if they're given the opportunity to or be made aware of at that stage because they might not be aware that there are various common good funds across that relationship and I think it should be given the opportunity if they want to donate towards that rather than they face something that says okay what service or activity do you want to support and somebody then has to think of as something with a fair position or I just want to do people the money to okay what do I want to do with the money. Donating towards the common good funds sort of removes obligation on them they know what it says on the tenants what the common good and I suspect it also streamlines the council process if somebody's donating to a common good fund rather than saying right a lot specifically to donate towards education for their system solve and then set up conditions I think that could be quite important so I think the less restriction there is on money any donations that come forward the better I think the common good funds might be a useful way of doing that thank you. Yeah I think yeah thanks for your comments there Councillor Steve Smith yeah I think we can incorporate that within the policy and in the operation of procedure just yes I should say rather than create lots of of different funds if there's already an existing fund the year that someone can donate to that's a very good point so I can take that forward and incorporate that in the update. Thank you. Councillor Ainslie please. Yeah I'm aware that at the Museum of Kagglin they have a box basically the visitors simply put the money into and I just wonder does this over complicate that or will that just don't continue to go to the museum service with a total of what's being collected in a particular day or week because I mean it lies there all season basically and I think it's then banged. Yeah I think this will maybe make sure that that is was monitored and reported consistently so you can see how much money is coming in from that museum and make sure that that money is is allocated to be spent on the museum so the people that are coming in I presume are donating because they want to donate to the museum. Yeah and my other thought is we have lots of parent councils who fundraise out but you could actually argue with an relation to education jobs and services then much in particular school I just want to count fundraise and activity like that that's in. Yeah and I know we've had a few questions around that aim that there's more sort of parent councils in different school groups that are wanting to raise money for certain things and this is really trying to bring that all together to make sure that we're we've got a consistent approach and we're actually capturing that information and those funds that are coming in to make sure that's reported correctly and inaccurately so that will incorporate those types of activities. Okay thank you. Okay Thank you very much. I see no further indications so the committee is recommended to consider a comment on the draft donations policy I said I'll do an appendix one note that among the Indonesians or personal procedures I say I'll do an appendix too. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you and we move on to item 11 draft teaching policy. Can I ask Emma Donaldson principal energy manager management engineer to take us through the support of these? Good afternoon Emma. Good afternoon thank you Chair. Thank you. So I'm bringing forward today an update to our committee on our progress with implementing the draft heating policy for the council. This is not necessarily a new policy this is a formalization of policies and procedures that we tend to implement currently but at this point we would like to formalize it to give it a bit more weight and a bit more ability for us to enforce across the council. So we would like the committee to consider and comment on the progress with the policy and help us provide and provide comments before we go back to business services. All six area committees are being consorted. My colleagues are presenting together this morning and we have already done Ma and Ban from Buckhead last week and we have concard in and for Martin next week. Just a bit of background to this obviously we still have targets to achieve reductions in carbon emissions despite the Scottish government's announcement last week. That announcement to abandon the 2030 target has not filtered through to us yet so we're not in a position to say whether it will or won't affect our direction of travel. At the minute we will continue until we're told otherwise. So at the moment we're still committed and to meet our 70% reduction in emissions by 2030 and to do that obviously we need to step up the amount and reduce the amount of energy that we use across the council and think about the amount of carbon we use as well. It's not just about carbon it's also about energy that we use. So the policy has been drafted to help formalise policies and practices I should say that are already in place and with the weight of a policy behind it we will find a life a lot easier to discuss with properties when they feel that they should have the heating left on over the weekend or in the evenings when actually perhaps there is no requirement to do that. I think possibly that's probably enough of an introduction. If anybody would like to ask me any questions I'd be happy to answer them. Thank you very much. We'll open it to the members. Can you please? Yeah thanks Jeff and thank you for interrupting that. How do you have a few queries I'm just going to go through. I think just the first start point on what you referenced during your introduction there. I think that regardless of the wide or seek implications of decisions recently I think it's still sensible to monitor what we do with our heat and have come together with two group stipulations of what we expect buildings to be at regardless so I think that's probably just a start comment. So I'm just going to go through this but there are a couple of queries I'll keep there with me. I think probably the starting point is reference to one of the later comments which is 6.3 which is the interaction between evacuation and ventilation and heating within buildings and so we've got a stipulation now on where it's required to monitor how to maintain CO2 limits which I think on a central education job services is largely due to CO2 monitors that have been installed in classroom since the pandemic and I think that that interaction between the two is important to reference generally rather than just the CO2 limits and I would probably reflect that the guidance and procedures available from the COVID ventilation guidance. I'm not entirely sure that would be the most appropriate direction for that and I guess I guess primary consideration to monitoring the CO2 from a ventilation point of view. So I think that interaction between the two needs consideration within there I would suggest going back the way to the table on table one I know the reference further down on that the exclusion is regarding swimming pool temperatures and I think the table refers to swimming pool rather than just swimming pool temperatures so I think maybe just making that clear that suppose it's the interaction between the pool temperature and the pool hall temperature which is the importance from an energy saving point of view and I think it's one or two degrees between the two and so I think that's probably the point to highlight rather than that it's so I think I would suggest. One of the different rates of going back on to 5.3 so apologies I'm jumping around here but we have reference to community centers and schools that are used for community activities outside school hours I think from a particular example I put here in Peter that I probably acknowledge that one of the halls that they use for a closeover with transparency statement there is used later in the evening now I think we have a control system that we're saying that heat and heat needs to essentially go off at a certain time to match school hours the temperature drops right down we don't have to boost it to maintain the temperature and eat later in the early evening to maintain the temperature from a community hall point of view I mean it's possibly quite counter productive particularly when you're into some of the harsh thermal mass of some of the buildings that we're looking at and perhaps we need to be considering building that into as if there is community use it in a school facility then that those particular areas maybe need to carry on at a lower temperature rather than switch on and switch off which I just expect might be more inefficient and final comment for me would be that if Gantt you're on appendix due really well from that and well like seeing those as part of these developing processes and I'd really encourage you some of my fruit so then it's good to see that part of the book thank you am I paid sorry yeah no apologies can you not be trying to come back and answer the questions yes please okay I think I have a note of them and so in relation to 6.3 and the covid guidance and ventilation and how that perhaps contradicts or cross hoesvers to the heating policy and if you actually look at the covid guidance now these days it's very much do as you think is best type guidance so as long as the CO2 sensors are not going off every five seconds the the strict requirements that we had in the height of pandemic to have the doors open the windows opens the very very specific things you must do and now it's very much you know we must just keep the ventilation there adequately enough to ensure that the CO2 monitors are not you know going off every five seconds I know it's not five seconds it's a very specific range in there so the heating the heating requirement then that as that ventilation has reduced the requirement the ventilation has reduced to something more near normal the heating policy now kicks back into that and this is very much that maybe I was lacking a little bit of my introduction there that the heating policy very much in its timing is quite appropriate now as we are back to near normal if not normal versus the little you know the world that we saw during the pandemic and particularly that in terms of our buildings and the ventilation requirements that we had so pretty much most of and I'd be hard pushed to tell you any that aren't are back to the way they were before the pandemic so in that case then what we have to do is try and pull back the heating because the heating set points and the temperatures will have crept up that we know they do they creep up all the time and in fact we're still sitting now in April expecting to switch the heating off proper in May in less than two weeks and it's freezing you know it's seven degrees outside eight degrees you know none of us are going to switch the heating off on the fifth of May if this temperature continues so the guidance and what we have there every bit of it although it's very much a policy there's the sense of what is reasonable practical and appropriate for all properties in conjunction with every other policy that we have so there was no intention in our policy that we're trying to formalize well look you're building you really don't need more than 22 degrees or 21 degrees in this building kids can't let they fall asleep you know it's that type of thing and actually we have a policy that helps us enforce that because the reason one of the biggest reasons we want to bring this policy to for is to provide us with that enforcement ability to be able to challenge 24 degrees in a property that's that's what we need not all properties do that but we have our you know our main offenders that constantly overheat on purpose so that's when that comes when there's obviously that and practicality reasonable behavior that we say okay you can't open the windows and heat at the same time it just doesn't work do we need the windows open anymore no because the building was actually okay before covid and we're now after covid so let's just put the guidance back into sort of the sensible proportions that we need it to be so that's our intention there regarding swimming pool temperatures in the whole variations except that it does say on a case by case basis this was perhaps us trying not to dictate to our swimming pools how to run their equipment and they are it's very specialised equipment and there are they run to very strict guidelines again pretty much like some of our buildings not all buildings can operate at the guidelines and the same for pools not all pools can actually operate in the you know the best possible way however they operate in the best possible way for that pool and we don't want to interfere or dictate something because it is a very fine balance and I think the actual variation is nearly two or three degrees rather than one between the pool hall and the pool temperature and how that works so we're giving sites and you know acknowledgement that pools are a big energy consumers but we do work with the service very closely and we did a lot of work last year and a year before two lower temperatures consistently the two sets of temperatures that we need to bring down and some was well received some wasn't well received because we recognised exactly how much that can impact on energy consumption and in terms of the community schools at hours and boosting I'm not sure which specific school I don't know if you could tell me which school perhaps that might help me answer the question a bit better I could bring that one up so hopefully we'll get okay it was just to say that because actually there's kind of two answers to this because where we have schools that are remotely controlled and they are controlled by you know backed by a computer which used to be once upon a time back in Motil House but now we can control from any computer the settings and the set points are controlled and managed and the computers are intelligent enough to work out you know how quickly we can turn something off and how long we can leave things on for if it's an older building where literally it gets switched off at three or half past three because that's the time that it needs to switch off rather than that's the temperature that needs to be switched off then we you know we can look at that boost functions are put in on purpose and they're still quite relevant even now even with fancy controls yes there's a thought well should we leave the building idling over for five hours just in case somebody comes in for half an hour and wants it a wee bit warmer there's a trade-off there isn't there so all of those things when we get down to the nitty gritty each of those things comes back to the management team say well look this isn't quite working for us can you help us is this the best way that we should operate you know the boost on for an hour is that better than have it idling for five hours until we turn up and we can zoom in on numbers on those things and tell you whether it is or it isn't it isn't quite as always obvious what the answer should be but we have the data and we have the ability to analyze that and work that out and say okay for you it says for you it's that but we have to start somewhere and the guidance is basically tell us when you're occupied tell us when you're not and we'll trim you down and try and save energy as much as possible the idea being that obviously every every kilowatt hour of energy was saved actually saves its money it also saves the CO2 as well as it as the three things are in it's strictly linked there thank you very much Emma Matthew would you like to come back now yeah briefly Chair if that's okay um yeah thanks for that I'm just going back to later on the first point you made on the carbon dioxide when it's banned the COVID guidance I suppose your justification was just sound but my challenge would be well if if that's the case why are we not just saying that within the document rather than pushing out to the guidance which might be removed completely from any publications in the future I mean we could just stipulate you have to control it and monitor it in accordance with you know your justification and I think the the other observation there as both is is how we roll out CO2 monitors across is it just across schools or is it right across our office buildings and who are we asking to maintain those CO2 levels and set those CO2 levels I suppose the flashing green light that's in the corner thanks yeah I believe my understanding was that the CO2 monitors were rolled out to schools and schools only because at that time anybody who worked in an office was no longer working in an office so we're put back to to home basically and a lot of that has continued places like although might not be relevant for Gordon House these days but such is yourselves in Buckingham House and Woodhill House the control systems that monitor the building and you have quite complex buildings we we don't have many of them Woodhill and Buckingham House probably the few that we have Peter Headcam is quite complex afraid of a pool's quite complex in terms of controls because the newer buildings and then obviously some of the PPP schools and the the newer schools have complex systems in them and so they that includes the CO2 monitoring is part of the temperature and the time that controls are heating so heating ventilation in complex buildings like Woodhill is automatic when we go out to the older schools particularly there is no such thing so that's why the monitors were sent out and I mean I don't buy and buy any means want to build it out of serious COVID-19 wars but when we were coming back to normal the stance that came from the Scottish government particularly in terms of ventilation was on the extreme of caution absolutely no reason why it shouldn't have been exactly what we expected we were asking our children to go back in and it was perfect and telling them it was safe so everything was super super cautious the guidance still sits there and it is very much open to interpretation and I remember speaking to my previous manager 18 months past then you know we can actually release this guidance we are already back to normal and there was this huge reticent so actually say we're back to normal because there's still that open interpretation of what you feel is good right and proper and also well we've got the we've got the sensors the sensors are working now they're at the you know they're that kind of failsafe they're that reassurance to teachers everything's good most teachers will also know when their children start nodding off because it's stuffy in the classroom and they wouldn't naturally open windows but this that guidance we have from Scottish government gave people permission to do that without thinking oh I'm wasting energy I'm wasting money now if you read that interpretation again you'll see that they don't contradict each other they support each other but I don't know if we are ready to remove the fact that COVID guidance exists even though maybe we feel that COVID isn't a thing necessarily that we have to worry about just now so that's why that is still in there until as a you know we're all comfortable with not referencing it any more than I think it will probably stay but I certainly will feed that back back to before we move forward thank you very much Councillor Powell it's just one very small quote from me on 5.1 maybe this was always the case and I didn't know but the school hours of heating eight tools for and it feels like we might be valuing our pupils over our teaching stuff because many teachers are in way before eight o'clock and by the time the building gets warm I would like to see that that was moved forward I can't stand for a book I suppose so maybe that has always been the case but if we're valuing our staff let's let them go into a warm building that because um don't I don't necessarily disagree um however you we can't have a cake and eat it so if we want to reduce heating within our buildings and then then we need to think about the core hours that that they are on for now just because it says between eight and four what that doesn't mean is oh it's 20 degrees or 21 degrees at eight o'clock and before that it's like five because we know that that doesn't happen a building takes a long time to warm up and our on our clever buildings know how long it takes to warm up so that the the systems will have a target point of at eight o'clock and in fact I would argue that's far too early the children and and that's why it's this typically okay so every single building will have a range of times and nobody is trying to prescribe that everybody is the same because every building is different and every building behaves differently so the what the clever systems do that remotely control the best part of our schools if not all of them and one way or another whether that's remotely or on site those clever heating controls work out and learn quite literally the temperature pattern of a building what the temperature was they've measured the temperature constantly outside and and will adjust the scheduling and when pumps come on to preheat and then before boilers come on it is one step above what you'll have at home so maybe at home it might only take 10 minutes to warm up which to put the heating on in schools it can take hours so the eight o'clock and the four o'clock work are typically the optimum what we actually do in reality is probably about three o'clock the heating goes off probably this time of year it could if we get a little bit warm in the afternoon go off even earlier and so that as long as the core hours are kept at the optimum range the shoulder hours that the building takes to warm up and cool down if you have one teacher come at eight o'clock you would have a huge amount of dissent that the building should be warm for that one person as much as you would have the building is now empty why is the heating still on so we have to strike that balance that is most economical for the building and most I've got economical for the school for the council as well so that they are typical but every property is treated on its own merits and adjusted accordingly but we'd also have to apply a degree of reasonableness here and say well okay I appreciate you coming in early but your heating doesn't come on proper like proper because nothing calls down below 13 degrees anyway because if we protect buildings for frost but you're not going to be 20 degrees just because you're coming in out earlier this morning and thank you for doing that but you know bring the jacket until it warms up and that's the type of mindset that we're trying to get back to that a little bit more you know we can't save money if we treat everybody to 24 degrees 24 hours a day yeah although teaching core hours are not nine two four but um and we don't come I think it says eight till four that doesn't turn yeah it says eight till four yeah so we can so my major part of your office is eight till five and obviously start at nine so a bit of a again thank you yeah thank you yeah I appreciate your point yeah thank you very much let's see your final indications so the recommendations the committee's recommendation to take 2.1.1 consider a comment on progress with development and accreditation of post-operative shut council heating policy and 2.1.2 provide comments on the dot heating policy document for business services committee thank you very much Emma for taking the questions and thank you very much thank you members will move on to item 12 statements about starting business can I ask Amanda Row area manager to take us through the statement about standing business please Amanda thank you chair um as i've heard the statement about standing business is to keep track of any actions that committee had requested as a result of reports that they have previously considered there are updates throughout the document and we are suggesting that a number of items actions are removed and so in relation to the statement we are proposing to remove item 4 item 8 item 9 and item 11 however i would just highlight that for both items 10 and 11 you have previously indicated that you do want to retain a a crack of any works that are approved under those in procurement plans you've not necessarily asked for the contracts award process to come back to you that you have asked that you are breathing on when works are finished so you may actually wish 10 and 11 to stay on getting the type of actions they are i would confirm though that those were procurement plans that were confirmed by bacadamia committee prior to the budget being set and it may be that services will come back to say that our changes in timescales because of financial implications for example a capital plan but it's a request to members to consider whether you would want 10 and 11 on a standard because they're rare in agreed projects they are in terms of other updates i would just like to confirm that in relation to item 1 we have requested an update on the landscape participate for budgeting again and i will get that to you as soon as possible in relation to item 12 just to confirm proposals for 24-25 in terms of play cards being up and grading marketplace and you could slide out these two part their long side phase two castle woodscrew and bay point gates peter head proposals for the 25-26 season are there once placed peter head root points peter head and hawthorn crescent peter head there were other play parts that came through on the original list just to confirm and i'm aware that one of those was the play packets driven that has actually been removed from the upgrade list at the moment because of although the um the play equipment is older the technical assessment is that are still in several years of life within it i understand however that there will be some radio and media works on the safety start the same um this financial year but again although i think it was a specific way about slide it is old but it's seen as still being in in good condition so that's um an update on the play equipment that was requested and in relation to item 13 once we for these and i worked out what we named by our last um action which we called on Clark Hill initiative we didn't mean that but i think we actually named Clark Hill way behind so we weren't rewarded to make it a little bit clearer um i have asked both our roads and transportation colleagues for an update because it sets up with both of them in terms of how that is working and as soon as we get that update we will share it thank you chair thank you very much Amanda um my perceptions would be flight terms 10 11 to remain thank you also um do we have a timeline for the um crossing at fresh solidarity i say update via email but i do want to call it in a timeline on it yeah thanks i'm not aware i think i've been advised it is definitely in 2020 4/20 5 along with stationary midlife eastern nearland road and stationary road midlow at the academy but i haven't been given an exact time skill at the island this financial view okay thank you very much okay comes the line some some please thank thank you chair um Amanda the one i'm going to talk about is one that used to be under number one but just the crossings that went well that have been put in i've partly put in one is now complete one is part done and i'm just sure what time scale it would be before they actually finish the nursery went off because folk are asking they put in the lines but there's been no sudden they put in the compartments and things one single but it's just been the actual crossings going on i was hooked mistake i mean we've done it same time as long as i go in one but we're going to extend well yeah wonderful take that no further fantastic you can do that road i have been on it thank you that's right thank you thank you very much yeah remember shouldn't it's important that it's hard because of power i don't know the stricken i mean if it's on the original work plan it must have been highlighted in the first base for some reason so i don't really accept actually not take it off yet but i you've got exactly the same answer that i've got um but if you're looking at the volume of kids at play on this equipment it's very old i am happy becomes compelled to pick that off-line and to consider those discussions because i think it appears to be two definitely technical assessments and one has indicated that need to place one is now indicating it doesn't want to have it still cracked back in those conversations i have asked if that is the case where does it fit in a longer term plan because we have all analysis coming through Scottish government and i've been warned us to get at the point where you're in needs work what we have in budget so it's and it was in public so it wasn't really a privilege I said for years ago I said it said it's coming and so we're now much going back and say it's not that really good to me i'm happy to get that and so to maintain that as a statement about its time in business and also to also discuss it in the work process all members thank you very much okay i can confirm that this meeting has now concluded thank you for your interest did these i can stop the recording please it got there without it