Children's Services Scrutiny Committee - Monday, 29th April, 2024 7.00 pm
April 29, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
please note we're not expecting a fire alarm test so if you hear one follow me as we go out of those doors please remember this meeting is being broadcast live on the council's website so behave yourself and also speak clearly and directly into your microphone and so you you press the button in order to make it go on and then when you're not speaking press it again so it goes off that would be terrific I'm going to ask everyone to introduce themselves so what we'll do is we'll go round the table this way and then we'll take in the officers and then we'll come back this way go. Thanks Chair, Councillor Pussman Parshy the Bonhoe Award to Vice Chair. Next I'll be in the Church of England Dices. Rosalyn or Guru Councillor for St Peter's on Canalside. Finn Craig, Councillor for Alston Ward. Mary Clement, Westminster Dices. John Abbey, Director of Children's Services. Sarah Calhoun, Director of Learning and Achievement. Tom Townsend, Head of Strategic Programs and Strategy in Children's. Ben Darn, Assistant Director, School Improvement. Handy Holger, Assistant Director Inclusion. Claire Zamet, Holloway Ward. Councillor Toby North, Assistant Councillor. Sophie McNeil, I'm the parent governor, Rep. for Primary Schools. And as a supervisor, I'm strong for Highbury Ward. And Theo is from Democratic Services and he's clapping this meeting. Well done everyone, we did that really well. So I've had apologies from Suzy Graves who's one of our third coaches member and also from Councillor Pandor and also from our executive member Councillor Saffingongo who is unwell. Councillor Convey has kindly agreed to substitute for Councillor Pandor. If anyone would like to declare an interest can they do so now? No, in that case I will invite you to agree the minutes of the previous meeting which you'll remember is on the 26th of February when we had our call in. Is that agreed? Excellent. So tonight's meeting subject to ratification at full Council will not only be our last together in this municipal year, it'll also be the last as the Children's Services Scrutiny Committee. So following the Council's review into the structure of Scrutiny, this committee is proposed to become the Children and Young People Scrutiny Committee affected from next month. As the statutory education scrutiny body, the remit of this committee will broadly be the same as now but with some additional areas of focus including children's health and well-being. So our co-opted members will transfer to the new committee and on the subject of co-opted members I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome our three new appointments to the committee. Sophie McNeil, Nick Turpin and Suzy Graves who have each been elected to serve four-year terms. Welcome and thank you. Yes, I'd like to remind you as you will remember from our last meeting that the majority of our business this evening is made up of items that were pushed over from the last meeting because we were primarily concerned with the call in which means that the items that had originally been on the work program for this evening, being the the Sacra Annual Report and the Quarter 3 Performance Report have been moved to the first meeting of what will be called the Children and Young People Scrutiny Committee which will happen on June the 10th. So that's the end of my chair's report. I'm delighted to say there are no items for calling. We don't have any members of the public here. If they join they can obviously ask questions on each item as we get to them. So we'll take the items in this order. We'll look at the school results first which I know Sarah is going to introduce. I think that will be the meat of this meeting. We then come on to look at the the report back on the scrutiny we did in to send transitions several years ago and then we'll finish up with a brief, hopefully brief discussion on the draft recommendations and then we might just have a small John discussion members have got a couple of questions around the very overview questions about school finances which we might take as any other business if we can. Excellent. So without further ado let's go to school results and Sarah I'll give you an opportunity to present but obviously we don't need to with we've read the materials so let's leave time mostly for questions. Thanks. Okay so to save time then I'm going to pass to Ben who's going to summarize the key messages as a assistant director of school improvement. Thank you Sarah and good evening everybody. I'm a new face but pleasure to be here and to present these school outcomes. Councillor thank you for the opportunity not to go through slide by slide but just to give you an overview. I'm going to start off I think with the the context which I think is important. The backdrop to these results I think is the fact that is linked to the second highest population density in the country. We have very large numbers of special educational needs in our in our school system and I think quite significant in terms of eligible for free school meal students the one of the highest in mainstream schools in the country. So I think the backdrop given the context that we are in I think there is a lot to be very positive about in terms of these outcomes. Broadly speaking when compared with national we compare very favorably across most key stages and the challenge moving forward is how we improve outcomes so that we are above in a London. As an executive head teacher I'm also very conscious that it's quite it's fairly straightforward to present lots and lots of data. The key thing I think for the school improvement team is what are we learning from the data what are those insights that they provide and how do they more directly inform practice in the classroom and inform teaching and learning. So the second part of the presentation really is just giving giving you a flavor in terms of how we might use the data to support schools moving forward. But I think some of the some of the key findings which shouldn't go unnoticed that is part of key stage one is concerned expected standard of greater depth outcomes better than national for reading writing and maths and I think quite significantly greater depth outcomes also exceeded in a London it's one of the one of the few key stage key performance indicators where we do out before in a London and I think that's testament to the work that school leaders and staff in those schools and parents do with their children to attend those schools to achieve those outcomes. Key stage two we exceeded national across most indicators and again falling short with some KPIs when compared within a London. Absence and persistent absence remains a stubborn issue which I'll be referring to shortly. Key stage four in our secondary schools I think it's significant to know that pupils achieving a standard pass that's grade four to nine and four English and maths was in line with national and above national for those pupils attaining a strong pass which is grade five to nine. But again both indicators lower than in a London. Key stage five some really strong outcomes across our vocational qualifications for young people which suggests that a large number of our pupils are on the right courses and are doing very very well and again a stubborn issue will moving forward the percentage of students achieving 3A start at A so we were below inner and national and that'll be a key focus for us moving forward. Our neat figures those in not an education and employment or training continue to fall down to four and a half percent but there are still challenges there to bring that figure down even further and then finally in terms of the key findings and this is something I think to celebrate 96% of our school settings in Islington are good or better and compared with 88% nationally and given the number of settings we have in Islington you know each school represents one and a half percent so sometimes smaller authorities are prone to larger swings and I think it's tested again the work that school leaders are doing in schools that we have a very impressive figure and but are working hard to achieve 100% in the not too distant future and as I alluded to earlier school absence of persistent absence and post pandemic is a national issue and it's none more so than in Islington where we do have we are still above inner London and national but some really encouraging signs with regards our suspension rates reduced from 2022 and in fact the provisional national figures for 2023 suggest that we will be at our lowest points in 2015 so again in terms of inclusion across our schools with really strong work going on to ensure that we keep young people in our schools and terminate the those outcomes for young people again above national and our progress eight school which is a figure which represents the progress that young people may given their starting points from year seven to year eleven again in line with national and working hard to have that figure above inner London some of our ethnic minority groups where we're working hard to improve outcomes remain within our black Caribbean and mixed white and black Caribbean cohorts and both of those key stages two and four key stage to a key stage four were below their peers so we know that lots of hard work ahead to ensure that we we bring those groups up and what I've included in the presentation and it goes back to the point I made at the start around learning from the data across all our key stages we have a very large range so if I've got page 21 on my notes here where we have and I thought what I'd do is very quickly and just highlight the the range across each key stage because I think it's it's an important aspect of how we can support young people moving forward across across Islington so the earliest foundation stage we have the national figure of 67 percent the range across Islington goes from 30 percent all the way through to 88.9 percent so what you have there in terms of the early is foundation stage are nearly a 60 percent range of outcomes which is quite significant and I think the challenge is to as we increase our average is not only look at the good practice that we have in our schools that are achieving very high outcomes but actually those schools that are at the lower end how do we ensure that the good practice that we can see in a lot of our schools is shared with those schools that may be and find themselves in more challenging circumstances so that's the early years foundation stage when we go to key stage to phonics again the phonics outcomes and the range here the national figure is 79.9 percent the in a London percentage is 81 percent we have a range in Islington from 38.9 to 96.6 so again not dissimilar to the early is foundation stage a large range and what that's what that shows us is that we have 28 schools above national and 25 above in London so some really good practice in a lot of our schools across Islington if I move to key stage one with a similar theme we have across reading writing and maths national figures of 68 16 70 percent respectively the range across Islington for reading goes from 25 percent to 88 12.5 to 85 and 33 to 92 so I won't repeat these across the other key stages but I think the message here is that we have a wide range in terms of outcomes across our school and the challenge of schools and a challenge moving forward is how do we support our schools so that the sharing of best practice is facilitated by the local authority and I think as we move from a very much a delivery lead model which may have been fit for purpose pre-COVID I think as we as we now recognize the long tail of COVID which was mentioned by the schools commissioner for a few weeks back at our attendance conference that long tail is now beginning to wag certainly in terms of our secondary outcomes those young people are entering secondary now in year seven were in year three year four in primary schools and those gaps in knowledge I think are primary colleagues and finding a challenge of secondary so I think moving forwards it's it's about a post-COVID delivery model that looks at how the local authority facilitates sharing best practice across our schools and I was just going to add as well when Ben's describing that variability and the model in terms of what do we do with that information as Ben's described it's understanding the context of those individual schools that are booking the trend so for instance those schools that high-performing but high high levels of FSM high levels of SCN and what can we learn from those schools so it's not just looking at the variability across those schools but also the context that those high-performing schools operate within and how you then match those schools with similar profiles to support each other drawing for the expertise absolutely so so on that point and what I've just given you an overview of is a range across all our schools but as Sarah has just quite rightly said what's useful for school leaders is comparing those outcomes in clusters clusters of schools that have similar intake so similar intake in terms of deprivation similar in intake in terms of ethnicity in terms of free school meals so that school leaders actually have an opportunity because there is still a range when you look at clusters of schools we are we still see there is a range of outcomes so there is good practice to be learned irrespective of the intake of those schools I think the the exciting opportunity for us as a school improvement team is actually identifying really strong outcomes in schools in difficult circumstances and sharing the best practice in those schools and across other schools in a spirit of collaboration and using our isn't professional partner model and as the intelligence if you like on the ground in terms of where that best practice lies so I look forward to being here in a year's time relaying the 2024 outcomes two key things to have narrowed that range and increased the average across all key stage four indicators and have a really positive message in terms of how we compare with these are in a London boroughs thank you thank you so I'm going to open it up to members to ask questions if you stick to one question at a time I promise you I'll come back to you so I see Mary indicating so we'll go to Mary and then councilor you go across Armstrong press your button Mary sorry when you were talking about the key findings and we're looking at the third page the bottom the black Caribbean and mixed white and black Caribbean pupils have lower levels of attainment now we've always had a problem in a team with lower levels of attainment and I've been on a committee in Islington where we were looking at that and really what when we even looked at EYFS in nursery there was lower levels of attainment at that point so I'm not too sure about matching it all up with attendance because maybe that's a new thing but in the past that wasn't the overriding concern that that was there because we were looked at them from right at the beginning and there was always that kind of dichotomy we were almost talking about actually you know tracking them in order to sort of give them enhanced stuff so I'm questioning that sorry I don't do and talking about range second question we always have had that range but in a way we also have to focus on those children that are at the bottom end you know we'll have the top end but without I don't want it to be diluted into oh we're great because we've got this amazing range we've often had we have very middle-class pupils we coming in who go after secondary schools that have got to do tests and various things so I'm not saying there's all middle-class kids that go after succeed but we've always had that kind of range and I think it I don't want it to be watered that we don't look at how important it is to look at those lower the range where EYFS what is going on you know really with some of the children nothing no I just I just maybe wanted to go that one step and say that I'm not celebrating the wide range at all what I'm saying is the way you have a wide range and suggested actually yes you haven't the higher-end schools doing very very well but those schools are performing less well the larger ranges suggests that there are a number of schools with poor outcomes that may well be struggling with cohorts that you've just described Mary and in terms of ethnicity in terms of our black Caribbean our Somali communities our Turkish communities those communities that maybe don't acquire that language acquisition in the early-year stage which is so crucial when we compare similar schools that do have stronger outcomes for those cohort you just described what are we doing to share the best practice so what is it that school A that has good outcomes for our Somali population and our black Caribbean population our Turkish population our free school meals what are they doing that a school in a very similar context with a similar intake isn't doing and could learn so school be learning from school a and I think the challenge for school improvement is how do we first of all identify that best practice identify strong leadership in schools how do we create an environment where school leaders have the capacity to share that best practice across schools so that what we in fact do we narrow the range so that the so that we don't have those lower outcomes and that by narrowing the range towards the top end our averaging increases can you remind me what the second question was and the second question I can't remember is but I've got that actually why is what working class children not mentioned anywhere I can't see white working class children we always have that as a cohort as well so it seems to be missing but but going back to your the three that came up the Turkish the Somali and someone else that they seem to be coming up lower and I do I would like to ask are they going to pre-school are they going to nursery or are they going directly to reception because of that thing to do with EAL just wondering I think if you're doing a deep dive and seeing what's going on with all the primary schools and why but anyway whatever I can't remember what my second question that's why it's always good to just last one could you turn your speaker off Mary so we're going to go to council you go about some strong then we're going to come over here thank you so these are quite troubling self-results outcomes and talk about range and I just want to clarify if this range is unique to isn't and what is it shared amongst fellow in the London schools and more broadly and then kind of building on that range kind of digging down a bit deeper do we have students who after 13 years of schooling in isn't it I have ended up with no qualification whatsoever and so that's one end of the spectrum and then at the end of the spectrum can you confirm if we have students who have gone on to Oxbridge and Cambridge as well thank you sorry can I just go back to your first did you say these are a troubling set of results and okay goodness is my first time screwing I'm I have to challenge that and I think there are certainly aspects of the outcomes where there are opportunities to improve but I think when you look at 24,000 young people in Islington that are in 96% of our schools are the good or outstanding I think the vast majority of young people across Islington are achieving well the challenge that you're quite the challenge I think the school leaders and the local authority in terms of supporting those schools which you're you're quite right to mention is where are we where are those young people who aren't achieving in line with others who where are those groups that we could be doing more for and how do we collectively when I say collectively I'm talking about school leaders parents the local authority work in partnership to raise those outcomes so yes you have asked some some very valid questions how many young people of disfonded backgrounds do we have ending up in Russell Group universities how do we use our anchor institutions like the Met to becoming into our schools talking with young people about their aspirations about higher education what sort of programs I'll be putting in place that give young people from a very early a to the opportunity to be aspirational and dream about their futures you know that old edge that you can't be what you can't see are we ambitious for all our young people now our school leaders in our schools absolutely are ambitious for young people what the question that we have to ask is where we are going to interrupt because you're asking a lot of questions and I think my colleague is asking for answers so you're asking more questions yes how many are going to Russell Group what are we doing what are we learning how many are leaving with with no qualifications whatsoever so come come back back to the question and when you look at four four point five percent young people at Newton's education, employment or training at 16 that is clearly not good enough and in terms of the solutions moving forward it's about starting early identifying those cohorts recognizing the key indicators those families that maybe don't take up the early year offer those families in primary school that have low attendance those families that are fairly mobile and we have where we have high mid-year admissions across schools looking at the triggers early on and putting in place the support that ensures that those young people get back on track as quickly as possible putting in things like we've we're establishing inclusion pathway so we are looking at those young people at risk in primary school and not being successful at secondary because the early indicators are with lower attendance with high suspensions that they are less likely to achieve at secondary school to put in place for those young people and where we have a wide variety of offers across Eastlington and things like our 11 by 11 offer our many cultural offers active row islington up with bound lots of universal offers that schools offer their their pupils how good are we at targeting some of the universal offer programs that we have in place towards those inclusion pathway students so that if you are at risk of not being successful in mainstream education in year 7 that you have the opportunity to be involved in 11 by 11 to go and visit the Metropolitan University to be involved in up with bound to be involved in acts of row islington to be mentored by undergraduates to have the sorts of experiences that may be more advantaged their more advantage peers may be to take the granted so it's it's a cultural change I think moving forward to make sure that those young people that are at risk of underachievement are given the full opportunity to succeed across their school life I don't think we still haven't got answer the question which may give some facts on the answers so sorry so so yeah it's a fair challenge in terms of going to Red Brick University you can see in our key stage 5 information that we only have 9.2% of children young people sorry they're not really children they are at that point that achieve 3 a stars to a you know against a comparison of 15% so it's it's not high enough and similarly with our young people in education and training 97% go on to employment and training against a slightly higher percentage across London but and so there is more work to be done there and I think what Ben's done is articulate some of the things that we put in place to support improvement but I guess the reason we started with that contextual information is we are the highest national you know local authority with the highest level of free school real eligibility and with the highest number of SEN so that's not an excuse we still have to have the same level of aspiration but you're right to point out that post-16 is an area that we have identified as somewhere we need to be doing better. I'll come back to you because we're gonna go to Councillor Craig and then Councillor North. Okay just a quick comment but then my question I don't think we should necessarily view going to a Red Brick University of Roxlet and Cambridge is a mark of academic success plenty of children with adequate grades turn down places that those universities will choose not to apply for starters so I think that's important to remember that it's not the be-all and end-all. My question is though it's still on their subject of gifted children or young people. In Key Stage 1 greater depth are exceeding in London by Key Stage 2 they're across all areas they're below in London. Why what's happening? They should be excelling. I think you're right and obviously we are comparing slightly different cohorts so the cohort that we're talking about here at Key Stage 2 obviously what we would expect the cohort at Key Stage 1 at 2023 and you're absolutely right that they've exceeded national and in London the expectation would be that that cohort that's now in Key Stage 2 in primary schools that when it comes to their Key Stage 2 outcomes will also achieve above in London and above national. So we sort of we're not comparing similar cohorts I think the ambition moving forward is that we outperform in London in all Key Stage. My impression is that that's not just a post-COVID thing, that this was a trend before COVID and we can't be sure that the Key Stage 1 who are at greater depth are still going to succeed in second. So what we're going to do to make sure that they do. John? Sorry. Yeah thank you. I think it's a killer question it's a really good question and one needs to consider. I mean I think the point that's being raised in around that variability in there across each and every one of those faiths just is really important we're seeing the very very high in my words the very very low and trying to reduce reduce that. What I think what we have have seen and notwithstanding there is that variability across the country because the concern is around the the attendance and this really group know very well attendance in this linton isn't good enough but it's not good enough across the whole country so those concerns about the variability because young people aren't attending school as much as they should be. However I think what Sarah and Ben have put in place in terms of that isn't a professional partner was that three years ago there may have been you know I know a number of chairs the governors and heads had their own sip for one of an old phrase an old money it was not consistent so we did know that you know schools would ask us who could we broker who could we find and that's that's where we we're getting to every single school having that so that you can really tackle really look at some of that data to really be thinking about who are the young people that you should be targeted and I think the point I say and I say it's a heads when we have had teachers meeting with when it goes to them is actually it's about getting that forensic look but getting back to school improvement part of what I think our heads and schools haven't to deal with it's so much buffeting around the system for so many other things that are going on it's not just these links and either it's other that they're having to focus on you know well-being sends variability autism feeding kids that actually and the reminder is again don't forget core purpose school standards young people best outcomes so I think your questions actually right so now is that as a team that's what we look at and that's what we go back to schools they like what are your you know what are you doing and you go there and you know that schools are thinking strategically and operation about what they have to do to get these kids up I think you know we have to strive to reduce that for a bit within class within school across the system to make sure that those young people who can fly we talk about potential they need to thrive they need to get what they need to get so they can get on to that correct pathway and that's this question is actually right as well you know too many young people who aren't getting on the right pathway at that letter part of the school system so you know I think that's where we're striving our aim is best in class in London not national so we meet national but that for me is just the average band we have to be striving for best in class can I just piggyback on councilor Craig's question because when you look I mean the absence is it's not a great story and we don't seem to be turning it around I'm I'm sorry to say that but assistant absence in primary schools has gone from 11% to 21% and I hear what you're saying about you know multiple complex need in the borough and the effects of austerity and all of that but we are now significantly worse than our statistical neighbors and we know that in Hackney and Harrington Camden the same problems pertain I think what maybe doesn't come out in this report is that there will be some schools whose attendance is fine and much better than average and there will be some schools that have got cataclysmically bad attendance and probably where 50% of students are persistently absent that's not the story that comes from the data but is that in fact the story I think the I'm going to come back to the the similar school clusters I think what we can learn moving forward is that within within those attendance figures there will be schools that have very similar intakes that have similar challenges and there will be a range so there will be some schools in those clusters that have consistent absence figures much lower than national and much lower than in a London and there will be schools that have overall absence figures much higher than in a London and national the challenge is what are those schools doing to achieve those outcomes and how do we take that best practice and share it with those schools in similar circumstances with similar intakes and share that best practice so that those schools can can benefit from from that learning and I think the what we've learned from from that nationally from recent offset inspections is I've said there's an expectation that schools are doing all that they can to ensure that those PA families those severe absence families are given the support they can so those young people are coming into school and that those schools know their data and are working really closely and hard on those area those stubborn issues but I think we have we have lots of good practice in Islington that we can share with similar schools moving forward that's your question on persistent absence no but I'm going to come back to you because I'm going to go council concrete your question is on absence isn't it so we'll go council concrete and then Nick if your question is on absence in particular thinking about secondary absence I think you're absolutely right Sheila that there is an alarming problem in primary as well but at secondary school the the data shows page 43 of the PDF report that we'll have and that we are a little worse than school neighbors a little worse than in a London the thing that I think is is not showing here is what the what the range of persistent absence is between different secondary schools these data shows just the first two terms of last school year in fact the DFE has now published the full three terms of last school year and is into this worsen a little bit on average from 27 up to 29% but the crucial point here is that one school is only 10% and that's in Alibisius one school is 43% and that's arts media closely followed by cola hybrid row for 40% cola Islington 33% speaking higher 32% so the school with with the toughest problem has got a problem there's more than four times greater than the school which has got least problem and funnily enough I can't see any particular demographic characteristics that would explain any of this at all Occam's razor what therefore is the most likely thing it's something about the way the schools are handling the problem of persistent absence and when you talk to parents and swap experience and when you look at some of the schools where you can see some pretty good practice I think the Beacon High does pretty well I'm a safeguarding governor there for quite some interesting insights into how they have a very graduated set of interventions we've got individualized people plans you've mentioned in correspondence Sheila that's Alan Burley is that exemplar for this schools that do not accept as the most last resort even talk about issuing fines that their focus is on the children and what they need and it does seem to me that that's the difference between schools which are experiencing the most challenging problem and those which are doing okay and just put in context 29% isn't good it's worse than the national average worse than the London worse that's the school name is that's 2339 kids in secondary schools in islington are persistently absent that's a lot a lot of kids and the frustration here is actually that we as the local authority don't have very much leverage over the schools particularly the ones which are academies in really shining the spotlight on what the practice in those schools is so the question how are we actually going to exercise some leverage particularly over the schools which are not our schools to officers want to come back yes and some really good points made from council Convery we have set up a deputy network partial deputy so as colleagues will know secondary schools tend to have a partial deputy and a curriculum deputy the partial deputy group has representation from across the academy and the maintain sector and we're excited that this is this I believe this is the first time this has happened for some years so we are actually gaining a deeper understanding what is happening across both the academy and the maintain sector schools in islington and there is learning to be had I think from from both sectors the key thing with the key thing for tenants at secondary is that essentially it boils down to leadership of management often attendance is one of those things it is it is about doing lots of different things well it is the mark it is it is about the marginal gains across attendance and where we have strong transition from primary to secondary schools where the good practice that has existed in primary schools transitions across to secondary school and primarily that's around continuing the engagement with families and what we are seeing across some of our schools where attendance is more of a struggle that actually maintaining those relationships with families that may be harder to reach and from primary to secondary is a key aspect of maintaining strong attendance and reducing persistent absence but it is it is it is a multifaceted challenge about doing lots of small things well across a wide range of objectives I was just going to add also I think on some of the practical things we have now inclusion hopes where we brought schools together to share their good practice in terms of attendance and what we've learned from those schools because Ben's right it's not one thing but what we do know is parental engagement is significant and what schools of totals also is you know the aggression that they're experiencing with parents and the mental health of some of the parents also so one of the things we have committed to or we're hoping to is develop attendance mentors through the application of the mayor of fund the decision hasn't been made yet but it came from a task and finish group involving members and the objective was recognizing that whereas we used to have you know offices like home school liaison officers education welfare offices that work that engages directly with families hasn't been happening because we haven't had those resources but it is that door knocking going round knowing the families you know bring building that trust back as well so I think it is about engaging with the community as well as understanding the data and what works well I think it is really about you know its parents another thing that emerged from the conversations when Candy was hosting the inclusion hub that came from one of our heads was you know the sort of penalty fines that we have for attendance they were saying why don't we turn that round and make it a more asset-based approach and you know where you get if you do i'm sure none of you have ever done this but if you're caught for speeding you have to do a speeding awareness course well why don't we do an attendance awareness course for parents you know rather than going down that and we don't do this but you know a punitive route but about understanding the impact because attendance is a protective factor if you're in school you're more likely to do well and bringing up what we're saying about disproportionality black caribbean families if they're overrepresented in poor attendance then obviously that impacts on their overall outcomes so things are like you know doing an attendance awareness course understanding the impact the long-term impact of not attending school but also about striving towards more inclusive settings you know up-skilling schools so that they can be more create that sense of belonging so that children with additional needs in particular that again are represented in our poor attendance feel a sense of welcome and belonging within those schools so it is multifaceted but i do think the engagement with parents is critical to that thanks we're going to stay on attendance Nick and then Councillor you've got reverse armstrong and then Councillor Bausmann-Kwashi on attendance I'm sorry you sort of answered my question because it was going to be about research families so just one other question was Ben which was talking about the best practice clusters which sounds good but what's your time to go for that well we're looking to take the education board in fact this week a proposal we've already worked up and what we made based those clusters on and it's it's like a piece of string isn't it you know there are so many key performance indicators that you could use but we think that free school meals and send is it is probably the most sensible the most sensible to key measures to to base those clusters on and in terms of time scale the isn't some professional partners that are now we've now rolled out across all our maintained schools they will they will then provide the evidence on the ground so that we can then start pulling together the best practice and the support that's needed certainly by the end of the summer term so that by the start of the autumn term 24 25 we can then start coming out to school leaders and saying these are the areas that we are looking for support do you have the capacity in your school to provide middle leaders senior leaders that can help us share that best practice across those clusters with that include church schools as well absolutely church and faith schools are very much part of this process and just echoing what Sarah has just said let's not lose sight of the fact that pupils that are happy in school and are achieving will go to school so it's about that quality first provision it's about teaching and learning it's about providing those environments in school where there is that sense of belonging and stronger attendance and lower persistent absence are an outcome of achieving those things councilor you got a thumbs up thank you i'm quite happy they mentioned education board because i think my question is where are they um attendance is dreadful across the board um and i think there needs to be more accountability um to how they're actually solving this critical issue um but then to my point building on council's congress leverage point um and actually a lot of points that were brought up about mental health and working with families and children um is what can the council do um has the council considered a model policy on flexor schooling um to try to get young people into school at least a few days um if not for all of them um because we need to do something yeah i was just the first you first point about the education board i think you're totally correct i think that there needs to be a shift in accountability we have representatives at the education board from you know our academies our secondaries our primaries and the diocese and it is evolving but i don't think it's still very much the local authority doing too rather than here's our shared aspirations how are you what are you going to do to help us to achieve them and what are we going to do so i think there is a movement but there's still very much a sort of cultural issue that we just have to bridge that gap between there's a local authority there's schools and actually have here's a system that we all operate within and we have a shared vision for all children to do the very best so i think there is you know we've talked about shifting the dynamic within that board so that it is more collaborative and i think your second point on flexi learning um yeah it's noted in the report that at this point when we published um the three hundred electively home educated children it's now actually reduced it's under three hundred and we are we have explored options around flexi learning whereby you know they wouldn't come back into school full-time but they would potentially attend school for some time um it's quite complex you know but we are continuing to do that Kelly i don't know if you wanted to update on the conversations you had directly with a school that was exploring the flexi learning yeah so it is a complicated set of arrangements if you if you flexi school your account is absent on the days that you're not in school the continuity of learning is is very difficult if you're learning two days at home one day in school but we have talked to a couple of schools who are you know clean to extend it you know just like if we develop as a you know a center for flexi schooling that might fill a hole and fill a gap so i think and certainly we've had an experience of one school where there were four children electively home educated one the oldest one said that he wanted now to go to school he came into school and very soon after the three siblings followed so so so it can it can work then they moved out of borough which was a a bit of a blow um so so i think there's you know there is more definitely that we can do we can do around that also well i've got the microphone i think i don't i think there's more work we could do with governors as well i i think we've not done any specific training around this with um attendance and monitoring and the governance responsibility because i think there's i i definitely think your probably all governors your yourselves and how often do you discuss attendance at your your governing body meetings so i think there's more we can do with with that group to sort of came to explore that council bosman quashy and then mary and then councilor gunro thanks chair and um thank you for the report really detailed and um i guess minds a little bit of an echo but a statement but a kind of roundabout question and it goes back to the community engagement so just wondering has the council um thought about going back i hate to bring the seaward into this uh with the covid 19 when we had the letter from the leader we had a letter from specific cabinet um holders so in terms i know councilor michina is not here today but just thinking about how we put that message out to different households and thinking about doing like a survey to you know get that data so we're very specific and it's just the the reason why i'm asking is because it is we can't say for example i'm a black uh gone in uh uk diasporin so my counterparts is being caribbean i can't assume that maybe they're like myself of a certain faith so we can't assume that it's a homogeneous group that can kind of pinpoint why these absenteeism is continuing so i'm just wondering back to council nesters point about stack of days um you know time is coming in looking at our EAL and also looking at obviously um children with specific educational needs there is something that we need to kind of look at and it might not be textbook what we do need to get our children back into school so it's anything from your side as officers that you can think that we can do going forward so surveys you know looking at bringing that data back in here from the parents and even the children and young people why they're not in school thank you yeah i mean i think the idea of the attendance awareness courses is a good example of because i don't think parents necessarily all parents necessarily understand the consequences you know of of of persistent absence so i think there's something to explore there and it was helpful that that actually came from school i think we're in a walk in a bit of a tightrope at the moment in terms of if we were to issue a letter because obviously in parallel we're doing the school of peace i think the relationships are not as as strong as we would like them to be so i think it's about how do we uh exert some challenge um whilst also um retaining relationships so i think things that we can do in a more asset-based way you know like understanding the impact of poor attendance through the attendance mentors for instance might you know getting back out working with families directly i think those kind of approaches are helpful yeah just coming quickly in their chair for me i think um i was at secondary school just last uh last Thursday 20% of year 11s are off with emotional school avoidance and 160 across the whole school one school not an academy as well because paul quinn has made well well made but i was staggered by that 160 and you and i have spoken about you know other schools uh you know where and what they might do and they have they have scale but when you get down to the to the nitty gritty a number of staff going holding conversations through bedroom wall doors because they can't get through and the gains are our marginal might get them in for half a day then revert to i know candy there was a um a pilot that went on where they where they really did a nurturing bring a group nurtured them in for a couple of weeks and then brought them back in so there was a bit of that flexi schooling and social contract but i think this is this is part of the ask from schools again where where they say we don't have the resources as a primary school Gillespie last week as well they said they have now half the number of staff that they had in 2014 now if you go and go across schools that that that was a group of people that they collectively can bring together who could work pastorally but of course ten ten years ago eight years ago we didn't have this crisis that we have and and it doesn't sit comfortably sitting in the bottom quarter in the tendency that it's it's it doesn't fit uh if it were but what i would say is that you know the government have not funded this duty the duty has not been funded with drawn schools are now asking what we need is the old school education welfare officer who will go and and it's not what's going to work that that sort of stick with those uh you know those young people with emotional school avoidance however there is a system where it's lost a little bit of that sort of um tenacity um and and how do we bring that back and it takes takes a bit of time interesting HMIs have been trained on the 20th of May about school contextual factors which also include attendance because of this because of this narrative as well as reducing school numbers because they have to recognize i think they are recognizing the changing nature it's still not good enough that our our children are not in school so it's not pushing forward a set of excuses but when you hear from ahead about 160 few students who are not in school because of most of the school avoidance you know what do you need us to do and by part there's what as Sarah's um about school attendance officers but also around that pilot that we need to scale up and we need to scale up rapidly as well. Point is well made John i'm going to make a couple of comments in response and then i know that i've got uh three members Mary Roselyn and Claire who we'll hear from but i i just want to say everyone here will be sympathetic to the point you make around uh budget cuts which means schools are operating with less staff but with respect the fact remains that's nationally and that our statistical neighbors are also in that situation. The situation you've described is an emergency it's an attendance emergency like we have a climate emergency and my feeling my information about the education board that is coming second and third hand is that that apparatus is moving slowly and not like it's responding to an emergency so hearing that it's evolving and that may be by you know the next term autumn term 24/25 that doesn't feel like it's being grasped with the appropriate feeling of absolute urgency because what we do know is that when children stop attending in primary when anybody stops attending regularly at any point it is very hard to turn that around and i wanted to just go back to some of the things you've said that through these hubs that have been put in place to share practice that the practice you're talking about which is good quality of provision drives attendance a sense of belonging drives attendance having a successful transitioned primary to secondary is good for attendance as is parental engagement none of that is rocket science we know that that's always been known if that if that's the best practice that's being shared it's not earth shattering those my observations they're not questions so i'm going to take a question from mary roslin and then claire and then an estus if we can keep it to one question each and then we are going to move off the topic of attendance okay thank you and listen to your discussing it i feel like this is such a major subject are we talking about primary attendance are we talking about secondary because they're both obviously very different i'm looking at the key stage one results and the key stage two where key stage one reading is okay a little drop but writing substantially so that might be to do with the cov but the covid pandemic because they were attending and language obviously does inform writing and so they wouldn't have been coming into school and and sort of utilizing all the expertise and the teaching the other things i would like to ask is okay i don't want to go down it's not really a rabbit run about attendance it's very obviously striking that it's there and especially with secondary but the other things that concern me is the characters of schools have they changed dramatically have there been a whole load of staff leaving to do with whatever as there been a new head i mean those kind of things will have an impact as well um the cost of living crisis has impacted our mental health of parents and possibly pupils because those children how much have they been picked up with camps i know the cuts have affected everywhere and it's okay to to blame this that and the other but i think camps has been affected those children have you we don't know what they've gone through if they're avoiding school school is obviously not nurturing enough of them and that's not blaming the school but something has to to give in order to get those children in but you're right what you said Sarah about making it very clear the impact of lack of attendance that that needs to be done but maybe rather than a sort of debt i hate the deficit model i think it's a positive one that everyone should be involved in and children should be praised for attending and maybe get prices and get phones and get whatever as long as they're not smart phones or something you know safe ones or something but i think having in the past in the last however many years i used to see boards up where would they'd have how many classes had got the best attendance so all of those are things that can be employed but it it isn't just one thing okay we'll do attendance and then everything moves your question everything needs to be doing so my question is is how much are you looking at the different characters of schools and what has happened and if there have been changes that are perhaps a bit more explicit than just attendance sorry thank you and some very good points there Mary coming back to the chair's point around none of this is rocket science that's absolutely right it's often very simple strategies across the range of areas that have a big impact and if i can give you one example where we've noticed strong engagement with parents it can be something as simple as a coffee morning once a fortnight with a particular community that can have a huge impact because what you're doing is you're bringing those those parents that may well have had that support a primary school and a secondary and those things may not be in place coming back to candies point about governance where you have strong governing boards that reflect the communities that they serve where you have that expertise and you can reach those communities and facilitate something as simple as a coffee morning some secondary schools are highlighting that as being having had a huge impact because once those parents are in the school you can then have those conversations or add any barriers to attendance when they're in front of you when you're talking with families you can then unpick the issues that sometimes can be sold relatively easily but the challenge is to have that consistency of approach across all our settings with regards the makeup of the staffing and the leadership yes the schools can can change from year to year new new signature teams new school leaders I think what these interpersonal partner model affords us is that where we do have a new school head coming into post we can support that new school leader where we have particular issues in a school around staffing again we can work across schools to potentially plug those gaps but I can't lie and say that recruitment and retention is an issue across our schools in Elizabeth and I think this needs to be out here because I think that all of those things like parental engagement the culture the ownership what drives improvement it's the ownership isn't it of you know of the culture within that school and the culture in schools right now isn't in a great place you know we've had the issue with Ruth Perry we've had the issue of resources not being improved you know for decades in terms of real terms alongside a huge surge in SCN so I think absolutely the this needs to be grasped and it does need to be articulated within that urgent sense but I think schools are feeling very beleaguered and feeling like they are front line service so I do think that there is if you're asking directly what has changed education has been de-professionalized demand has increased funding has reduced and schools have been asked to do more and more absolutely they need to do that because we should have the same level of high aspiration for all children but doing it right now is not great it's not a great place to be so the more we can do this as you said in an asset-based way where we're actually instead of sending a letter out saying you're doing everything wrong but how do we celebrate what you are doing well you know and there is a lot of good in these results also first time since 2015 that's what I was trying to say there is I this isn't criticized this ancient schools are brilliant 90% of them are good at outstanding let's not get into it we have to focus on what is gearing up but actually they are really good schools in this winter they have been brilliant for years and secondary is starting to to catch up with primary but you know just even the results you can explain a lot of some of those results to do with the pandemic you know to do with like writing writing is a little bit down in key stage too as well but that can come up that those things can be improved but I agree with you the the whole thing so we do need to have a bit more positive as well rather than to be on the criticism because people don't respond to that children don't respond to it is is actually yeah I'm going to bring in Councilor Gunro and Councilor Zamit and then we're going to move on from attendance yes thank you chair the attendance awareness course for parents which you mentioned is a good one but why don't we have one for the young people themselves if we can identify who they are the young people who are not going to school and and not attaining so yeah so if we could run one for the young ones themselves that we go and many young people do go online for all manner of information we could use online stuff to reach these children by promoting marketing advertising if need be at the immense benefits of going to school so that's my suggestion thanks we'll hear from Councilor Zamit and then you can respond to both and actually I might build on what Ross said as well because so I was thinking about what is the correlation between where you live and entertainment as well and you know thinking about even the culture of where you live in you know big housing estate you know what more if the Council is thinking about the different services and how they can also help you know is it that a particular state needs some help around the culture about how they all feel about kind of going to school because I guess building on what Ross sort of said about peer networks social media you know I think we're in that time now we're actually you know children from a certain area of school probably talking to each other kind of through kind of social network tick tock etc etc and you know and if one thing they shouldn't be going to school perhaps the other things they shouldn't be going to school as well so we we're in this kind of we're in a slightly new age aren't we so whilst they I believe that looking on the doors and talking to the parents art is really impossible I think to Ross's point about it's like their own peer networks need to think it's important but I think the correlation with housing was also about you know if where you live is not great you know as well do you think that has some type of correlation on attendance and and therefore should we in the council be doing better in other areas as well I'll answer that that simply because I do spend a lot of time analyzing the the data and we look at the so we put the data into quartiles so these are the top performing schools this is you know second third these are these are the ones we have we're most concerned about and it is fascinating to see that in every group you have children from from all over the bar and schools and all over the bar there is no geographical correlation whatsoever there is no correlation around free school meals there is no correlation around the number of children with send there is no if any indicator that you would like to to use it is you know for all intents and purposes I completely ran them so so what is the factor what is the you know the the the one factor then and I have to come to the conclusion that it is about leadership and management because it's the only it's the only variable that's left after you eliminate everything else so so that's and that's not to say you know I think it's about the problem when I talk about leadership you know that's it's broadest it's broadest sense as well so so leadership management culture those are the you know those are the issues that we know we've got to work on thank you I think sorry I was just going to say the has been the it might not be linked to a characteristic but there has been some new research just produced about assets in communities and if you live in a community where there is a children's center you are much more likely to do better so it might be worth sharing that it's just been published so I think it's less about the characteristics and profile but more about the assets within that community and whether you access them I think it's just kind of excellent point that was made earlier around social media and peer groups talking about themselves I think it's also about creating a culture and around what sort of adult what sort of citizen do you want to become how do you want to serve your community what do you want for your family the future and what aspirations do you have what what what what dreams do you have and coming back to Candy's point about leadership and management I know only just have too well school leaders absolutely passionate about the culture within their schools and the aspirations in their schools but often it is about signposting the opportunities that exist for young people in the future and how you get to points you know that end point is a combination of many things you know working hard in school being being ambitious being confident being resilient attending you know it's kind of signposting those important key aspects of an all-round education that that will get you to the end point which which we all hope and people will achieve towards thank you so we'll draw the conclusion on school results to do with absence to a close I think we'll just this committee going forward we'll have to find a way to have to maybe hear directly about the outcomes from the education board to feel satisfied it is being treated as the emergency that it is but I think Candy provided you know the conclusion after an hour of discussion that it's to do with the leadership and management so that's what we need to be scrutinizing directly going forward so thank you for that does does anyone on this committee have any questions on item B1 school results that is not attendance yes so Councillor you've all of us Armstrong and then Councillor North Councillor North and then Councillor you've all of us thank you thank you very kind I'd like to ask about elective home education it's reassuring that we've got some numbers on these young people within the report and not least because it's an increasingly prevalent group since COVID and you know going back a couple of years ago on this committee they were previously a very invisible group where we weren't reviewing data and numbers on them but I would be keen to understand whether we do have access and visibility of any kind of data on attainment and outcomes for electively home educated young people and whether we're thinking creatively about how we can get hold of some data but also make an offer to those families that have made that choice to come and take exams within Islington schools so that you know we're offering those young people something of an Islington education even if they've opted out of that offer. So I will say that happily the numbers just started to turn and now I think we've reached the high the high point and some numbers of Armstrong to decrease so that's the good news but still we've got you know ironically we're closing schools at a time when we've got our whole school's worth of children who are relatively home educated so it's not you know that we can't miss that at that point we do have very best to keep in contact with all of those families we have you know arrangements where we will visit or arrange to meet the families and the young people at least once a year as about as much as we can manage but that's graded so where we might have more concerns or we were to do that more frequently we regularly provide them with information about health health checks and so on and so forth we've got good arrangements with our health colleagues so that all the educated children are that is known by the GP so that they will know for example you know to see the children perhaps rather than give telephone diagnoses we have got arrangements for exams so when we start approaching obviously year year 11 or the end of year 10 we're going to be in contact with those families to tell them about the exam centers and the arrangements they can make our careers a team so we do as much as we can and that and it is very variable in terms of the response to that so some some families still are you know very much this is a philosophical you know choice and they keep in very good contact with us happy to show us examples of work and so on and so forth right so to the other end where you know this is we don't have to tell you anything which indeed they don't buy law we don't have to share any information with you we don't want any to receive any any information from you so we've got you know we've got quite quite a spectrum there so so we we do our best to keep in touch with those ones always in those visits or in those conversations it's a look at the curriculum and we also see samples of work that the children are doing but in terms of any measurable outcomes unless they those children are sitting in public exams that would be the only way that we would do we would be able to assess that other than as I say though it's that the the advisor who makes those time visits is an experience teacher so you know is able to to give some some security but we do take it very seriously we're arranging an event a kind of coffee morning we don't miss it first time we've done this so we don't know quite how it's how it's going to go and how many will turn that but I can certainly keep you informed on that yeah and we keep we keep coming can i just very quickly add to that and certainly at secondary level the Pascal deputies were talking about this very issue and there was an agreement with every school represented around the table how important it is to have a consistency of message from the particularly the secondary family of schools so that the approach towards elective home education is is consistent in terms of where we think elective home education is right for a young person we will support it but if we believe that actually that young person needs to remain in mainstream that that consistency of message is is is made very clear to families I think at the moment one could argue that possibly if school if a school is unsure what the school down the road is saying regarding elective home education then we we may find families with young people being elective home educated who shouldn't be so again I think it's about moving forward what is what has a family of schools in islington what are we saying what is our position on on ehe and come back to county's point about leadership and management having the moral purpose to stick with that message and make sure that those who should be in mainstream remain in mainstream I've got two more questions but I would just like a follow up on that because it seems like what you've described there is a slight change in policy because I didn't know that as a local authority we were ever supporting home education I thought we were all our position was that the best place for a child is in a school and that the schools need to be inclusive to make that the best place for that child is that no longer the case that is the case it's very very very much the case so I think I think what Ben was describing was obviously there is parental choice to home educate and there is a very strong lobby obviously that of parents in terms of supporting elective home education but our position as a local authority would always be you know to keep those children in mainstream education also because it's a 1.9 million pound loss to the school budget if nothing else right if I can just ask a question don't don't put you on the spot in terms of a figure but if you were to what proportion of this cohort do you think take up the offer of taking assessments within Islamans and schools you know when they reach those those points I thought 60-40 I would say you know around that's a 65 in favor of taking up 40-40 not I think that's the that that's the split that we've we've got that he's starting to be absolutely on top of looks at the last years figures but certainly historically that's that that's the sort of sort of proportion we certainly more of the elective home education families are you know working with us and you know and and and co-operating than those that are that are not. Councillor you've got to ask Armstrong and then Councillor Crape. Thank you Chair. So my question is potentially with a set of results that hasn't been important in this paper which is Key Stage One which were statutory has now been removed so I just want to get understanding whether the government is still providing the papers for Key Stage One Sats. R isn't on primary schools using those papers and if they are why there's a lot of research that backs up that for that age group. It's not necessarily the best thing to do and that what would be a lot more productive is some sort of assessment for learning rather than a status paper and I guess within that same context is is there some sort of informal expectation for schools to do this from the council or to compare results or anything to that kin. With regards the the optional Key Stage One Sats we have left out the school leaders to make that decision what we're undertaking at the moment is we're not clear how many will be using the optional Sats and how many won't so we're in the process at the moment just gauging what that picture looks like across Islington and coming back to the other point around teaching and learning we will be gaining a deeper understanding for those that aren't what they're doing instead and again coming back to that comparing best practice across schools in terms of outcomes and what might be the direction of travel moving forward so we're picking up that picture at the moment. Councillor Craig. Given that if we've got 300 home educated children we're losing about two million. Do you get any central funding to support the home educated children? So we're losing money and they're costing us money. Yeah I mean we have invested in more support to work with those families so that we can reintegrate them because obviously we recognize that it's not always a good thing for those young people to be isolated but also because we obviously want that income in schools. But there's no money for that from the central government so it's a lot to the council. Okay colleagues if there are no further questions on the school results item we will move on to B2 which is the report back after our deep dive into Sen and Disabilities Transitions. Thank you for the report which was really thorough. Apologies once again that was my first scrutiny and there were far too many recommendations I am forever sorry about that but you've done a good job of going through the more and putting down what you've done or if you haven't why you haven't done some of the things which all seem to make sense to me it'd be very interesting it says that you'll provide an update on the baseline report for supported internships which I think will be really interesting so make your presentation hopefully fairly briefly and then if we've got questions we can. Thank you yes so thank you very much for that it's three years since since we wrote that report in that time numbers of children with education, health and care plans have gone up by 35% in Eastlington and a greater across the country. I think we've talked about the attendance emergency. The senate crisis comes a pretty close second to that at the moment so it's a very the context has changed dramatically over that period so I think it's important to say that. Our focus therefore has been on that on that wider issue so to keep keeping our sights the recommendations that you've made for us has been a struggle nevertheless we've tried to keep them in our sights and I think it reflects what we were talking about earlier I think around attendance what's been a really I think helpful lesson to to us through the range of recommendations and it was a wide range but actually what we've got is a wide range of needs and I think each of these recommendations have impacted on a slightly different group positively and I think with the collective of that therefore is that we do see a significant difference I think in our relationships with families as a result of many of the interventions that we've put in place as a result of your deep dive and the recommendations. I think our relationships with parents has always been strong in this thing but I think it's strengthened so many of these initiatives because you know it's made us talk more and get involved more with the with the service users about their specific concerns rather than you know in a more general sense and so so we're grateful I think for the opportunity to have to have been able to focus on some of these areas that we wouldn't otherwise have done necessarily and I think it's given us some some really positive outcomes for all the children because of our learning through through as well as those you know who've received the improved services. Obviously as I say the situation generally would send is you know is tough and getting tougher but being assured isn't or remains you know on the right side of many of the of the challenges that are really paralyzed in other local authorities we remain one of very few local authorities who's still in balance in terms of the this high needs budget and that's that's no mean feat we certainly we're struggling to keep to you know to maintain that that that situation. We are one of the change partners now for the national send an AP change program so we're in there trying to test some of the reforms that are being proposed ahead of a head of rollout and give advice back to central government on on those proposals we're involved in we've been recently had an article published in what works in send talking about the partnership relationships that exist in Eastington particularly with parents and parent groups but with me between health and social care services so so there's still a lot of positives I think that we can say you know in terms of our system I recognize that you as members will be on the receiving end of of those families you know very often who are not you know have for an outside of the system or are are dissatisfied there is you know an increase in level of dissatisfaction we know that you know nationally with the with the system so I hope you'll you know retain confidence in the that we continue to try to keep this in to keep things of flow and many of the as a side the the recommendations that you've made and the things that we've been able to put in place of help with with that so I'm really happy to answer questions on any of the as candy I just wanted to draw out three things that are really great which is that you've started to you've piloting this south locality inclusion hump to bring all those people together Senko's inclusion leads attendance leads and so on I think that's really great because what we heard was that people were not necessarily being joined up also really pleased that we've been asked to pilot to test a new template for the act for the plan itself because we heard a lot from people that it's long it's unwieldy it's confusing it's generic so that's terrific and the third thing was just this transitions drop-in service for young people that sounds like a brilliant idea so thank you for all your work and for sort of continuing to kind of innovate and that's I remember you saying at the beginning of the scrutiny I think I remember you saying when you started working for the council there were seven children who had a diagnosis of autism you then painted a picture three years ago of how that has exploded and now you've painted another picture that it's continuing to to increase so thank you for all the work I'll ask members if there are any questions on this review so we'll take councilor you've got our arms strong thank you chair just can we have that update about the internship summer internships I think I think that would be quite useful and then my actual question was with regards to isn't a strong or informed practice and I know that 35 schools have taken up the offer which is great I think 10 more a 33% increase coming up this year is that where we expected to be how much more and what are schools doing so so obviously we're working for 100% and we would be very close to that at the end by the end of this period but it's a bit like painting the Eiffel Tower you've the schools need to refresh that training you get to turn over in staff and so on and so forth so so we will be continuing that program for as long as we can fund it I'm absolutely honest I'm in one of the some of the difficult decisions we're having to make now is about what we you know funding statutory priorities in terms of what we have to fund and what we would love to fund if you know if we were able to do unfortunately the trauma informed you know practice is is a non-statutory service so so we're having to review all the time but but certainly we know it's had a huge impact a huge positive impact and our our wish and our desire would be to continue to to fund and and yeah practice in in that way supported internships candy so yes and I'm happy to bring that that report back when whenever you are ready to receive that we're not we were not to receive that today oh were we because on my agenda it says including update on baseline report for supported internships oh sorry I haven't come with that data so I'm I apologize I'm so we will put that on the work program for the first yeah okay because that would be great to hear about that um I don't see any advice I do I do I do my goodness I'm gonna go over here first because I'd like to hear from Sophie and then we'll go Councillor Craig and Mary so anecdotally I've heard that there is some differences between schools in terms of their willingness to accept send pupils and I think that's partly because the funding that follows the people doesn't always completely cover the costs of working with that pupil and some schools are doing a bit more a bit more of their share than others a bit more a bit more of the work um do you have anything in place to try and share that burden more burden and opportunity frankly but to share share that work more equally between schools so I would say we we're working on that daily um so so every consultation that we that we make we get lots I'm afraid of of pushback from schools to say exactly what you said the funding isn't isn't enough to do what we think um or what we would like to do unfortunately what we have to and we have a um a funding system that is quite complicated but the money comes down from central government we decide how we how we can best distribute that using a matrix of of need which officers look at based on the advice we make an assessment of the resources that we think are appropriate to meet that need so that's consistent across the borough every child that we see is subject to that same assessment and and scrutiny the decisions are made by the same people so there is a consistency across the borough which 50 percent of schools will yeah etc happily and and others will say no we we know we need we need more to do what we what we what we would like to do our assessment of it but sometimes differs from that sometimes we look at that and say fine perhaps there's something we've missed in the advice so it is a dialogue that goes on the unfortunate thing his parents have caught in the middle of of of of that and it's not pleasant for them or dignified to do it to be arguing about money when actually um their biggest concern is having their their child's needs identified and and met it is an unfortunate sign uh of the times um we are increasingly um schools are are both out barra in barra uh you know coming back and asking for for more resource uh because their their budgets are are are reducing um so it is a very difficult um you know it's a difficult situation there are difficult conversations but we are you know we are having them we're doing our best to um help people to to understand the funding system and and how it works but not to get into a finger pointing um you know it's the government's fault or it's the local authorities fault or it's the schools fault or it's the you know it's it's the child fault the system is the system we all have to work within it uh and we know it's broken and the government know it's broken and it's quite astonishing situation that we're in at the moment where where by the government said two years ago this system is broken and yet here we are still trying to to to to to to work it um i've been talking to Sarah earlier earlier today about the you know the realities of the more funding has been put into um the same system but actually if you look at that against inflation it it hasn't um um you know really um we had a situation in 2014 when the the law changed uh and we were asked to make provision for young people up to the age of 25 instead of up to the age of 18 not an extra penny went into the system for that at that point we have 50 children who are uh over the age of of 16 in the system we've now got 400 and no additional funding um for for that we have to make the money go around as fairly as we can i think is the um you know is is the reality uh and and there are an increasing number of schools who say well i need more in order to to to to to do what you're asking there isn't anymore and that's the you know that that's the the the reality so we have to we have to distribute it as best we as best we can thanks so we'll go councilor craved mary and then nick don't mind it's a bit of a comment rather than a question i i've noticed i often do that um brief comments there's a lot of really good stuff in here and i particularly like the transition stuff is good but also the things to do calendar the send section is much much better than it used to be however gosh if you don't like playing football you've not got a lot of choice on there we need to do things that aren't football and some of the things on there are out of date i found a lovely link to weekly ice skating at the sobell for special educational needs so some might need to look and update it okay thank you and find some things that i'll put on please thanks vin that's helpful uh mary and then nick um mine is about two well one is um yeah i've worked in this in my life and you've done a great achievement going through all of this but i wonder we're not going to go and do another scrutiny is there something really glaring that you would like to have to recommend as to recommend or something i know you need more money but apart from money is there something that would benefit you that if we were doing it again perhaps that would go into there but yeah it's amazing and i actually think david cameron um is responsible for a couple of things isn't he in life Brexit and for this because he influences i thought it's very ironic i know this is very recorded but it's true really anyway i'll come and possibly comment nick mary could you just press your button sorry um candy uh you've got a huge increase in number two of them with scm and obviously we in school play that perfectly well have you got sufficient staff in your department to cope with the workload and if you don't are you are you finding it's taking longer to uh to process those EATP applications uh so so we're just about there but we've been catching up so i think the you know the the um you'd increase um called called the son of unawares um so so so we've been trying to to recruit staff uh we do we're doing some extra work um we're supporting other local authorities and to the change partnership we've got some extra income and that income is paying for additional staff you know in order that we can we can manage this so hence my writing reports on the sunday and so it's so so we're doing what we can to to plug those gaps obviously it takes a while for those staff to get up to speed which we are we're training training them so we do recognize that that there that there has you know the service has been as I say playing catch up our time scales have improved dramatically so we're now up to about 90 um just 85 90 percent of of assessments being completed within the um the 20 weeks so that's and we've gone right down to 40 um our worst you know um our most challenging of times that is working its way through so it won't necessarily be completely evident um you know out there yet that those uh again we've got those extra resources in in place um and and obviously there is a challenge if the challenge will come when um when the funding um runs out because these are time limited uh funds but but we'll cross that bridge when we uh when we when we get to it so for now we've managed to fill fill some gaps and uh and I'll I think just about fully staffed now I think we've got one one more um uh opposed to to fill. Thanks Candy. Oh I was going to say we've got one more question but we now have two more questions so we're going to go council boss McQuashy and then council that you've got over Sam Strong and then we're going to move on to the last substantive item. Thank you chair and I guess it might be supplementary and to Nick's question which is about um the send need and um I heard Sophie mention about some of the schools not showing the the loads so I'm just wondering do we have any um data in terms of like those that haven't even been um I guess diagnosed but I just like just on the boundary um so we can kind of get ready maybe get some support in because it's about prevention then you know then they're on the cure for any sense. Thank you. Yes so so um we've certainly we've got no problem in identification of send. I don't think um that that's our challenge obviously it's the meeting these once when um once they've been the children have been assessed and have their their plan. I think we do our best with schools ultimately we can direct schools because this is a step I think one of the you know one of the key challenges perhaps that people don't necessarily understand and I mean by that both parents and um schools and colleagues from other services is that we are working in a statutory framework once we begin a statutory assessment and education health and care assessment the law takes over basically we have to do things in accordance with the law there are rights and entitlements then and powers that we you know are able to take we try not to take them but ultimately we can direct the school um in order to admit the child or as a site we try to do it amicably and we try to do it in a you know in in in in the most um you know collegiate um uh why it's not good it's not good not for a child or a family to be entering the school because the school has been instructed to do that rather than welcoming welcoming that child so that's what we try to achieve but ultimately we do have statutory powers um to to to to to insist um and we do yes thanks candy and the final question on this item and estas thank you it's just leading on the question about staff because obviously they're also linked up to um schools do we have enough special education needs school places or schools in general and that they secure sustainable would so that's one thing i'm confident of um this um we we have the highest number of children in special special schools in the country literally we are now now the the highest and that comes from a you know a long history in in isington of um so especially supervision in the kind of 90s to um two two thousands we re um um shaped and reformed and refurbished all of our special school school provision all of our special schools are co-located in mainstream sites they're all built um you know within the last 22 to 30 years purpose built um and and we've got a very very good offer for a very small borough so we've so we've got provision for all four areas of the code of practice cognition and learning through samuel roads autism through through through the bridge physical and sensory through rigid clouds Lee and new of a college which we always consider to be part of our uh especially its provision and indeed that's the way the government is going with with with send an AP now is what they is what they talk about so we're we're really really blessed i think with our with the strength of our offer every one of those schools i've just mentioned our outstanding um and we've also um got additional resource provisions um in in some of our primary schools so so i don't think there is there is an issue about um sufficiency um but there are all like build it and they will come is what i always say if we if we had more we would we know we would really have no doubt about that thanks candy that's good to hear um we approach uh nine o'clock so if we can move on to our final substantive item um just would like to thank everyone here really for what i think has been already a... 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Transcript
please note we're not expecting a fire alarm test so if you hear one follow me as we go out of those doors please remember this meeting is being broadcast live on the council's website so behave yourself and also speak clearly and directly into your microphone and so you you press the button in order to make it go on and then when you're not speaking press it again so it goes off that would be terrific I'm going to ask everyone to introduce themselves so what we'll do is we'll go round the table this way and then we'll take in the officers and then we'll come back this way go. Thanks Chair, Councillor Pussman Parshy the Bonhoe Award to Vice Chair. Next I'll be in the Church of England Dices. Rosalyn or Guru Councillor for St Peter's on Canalside. Finn Craig, Councillor for Alston Ward. Mary Clement, Westminster Dices. John Abbey, Director of Children's Services. Sarah Calhoun, Director of Learning and Achievement. Tom Townsend, Head of Strategic Programs and Strategy in Children's. Ben Darn, Assistant Director, School Improvement. Handy Holger, Assistant Director Inclusion. Claire Zamet, Holloway Ward. Councillor Toby North, Assistant Councillor. Sophie McNeil, I'm the parent governor, Rep. for Primary Schools. And as a supervisor, I'm strong for Highbury Ward. And Theo is from Democratic Services and he's clapping this meeting. Well done everyone, we did that really well. So I've had apologies from Suzy Graves who's one of our third coaches member and also from Councillor Pandor and also from our executive member Councillor Safin Gongo who is unwell. Councillor Convey has kindly agreed to substitute for Councillor Pandor. If anyone would like to declare an interest can they do so now? No, in that case I will invite you to agree the minutes of the previous meeting which you'll remember is on the 26th of February when we had our call in. Is that agreed? Excellent. So tonight's meeting subject to ratification at full council will not only be our last together in this municipal year, it'll also be the last as the Children's Services Scrutiny Committee. So following the Council's review into the structure of Scrutiny, this committee is proposed to become the Children and Young People Scrutiny Committee affected from next month. As the statutory education scrutiny body, the remit of this committee will broadly be the same as now but with some additional areas of focus including children's health and well-being. So our co-opted members will transfer to the new committee and on the subject of co-opted members I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome our three new appointments to the committee. Sophie McNeil, Nick Turpin and Suzy Graves who've each been elected to serve four-year terms. Welcome and thank you. And I, yes I'd like to remind you as you will remember from our last meeting that the majority of our business this evening is made up of items that were pushed over from the last meeting because we were primarily concerned with the call-in which means that the items that had originally been on the work program for this evening, being the the Sacra Annual Report and the Quarter 3 Performance Report have been moved to the first meeting of what will be called the Children and Young People Scrutiny Committee which will happen on June the 10th. So that's the end of my chair's report. I'm delighted to say there are no items for calling. We don't have any members of the public here if they join they can obviously ask questions on each item as we get to them. So we'll take the items in this order. We'll we'll look at the school results first which I know Sarah is going to introduce. I think that will be the meat of this meeting. We then come on to look at the the report back on the scrutiny we did in to send transitions several years ago and then we'll finish up with a brief, hopefully brief discussion on the draft recommendations and then we might just have a small John discussion members have got a couple of questions around the very overview questions about school finances which we might take as any other business if we can. Excellent. So without further ado let's go to school results and Sarah I'll give you an opportunity to present but obviously we don't need to with we've read the materials so let's leave time mostly for questions thanks. Okay so to save time then I'm going to pass to Ben who's going to summarize the key messages as a assistant director for school improvement thanks Ben. Thank you Sarah and good evening everybody. I'm a new face but a pleasure to be here and to present these school outcomes and Councillor thank you for the opportunity not to go through slide by slide but just to give you an overview and I'm going to start off I think with the the context which I think is important and the backdrop to these results I think of the fact that is linked to the second highest population density in the country we have very large numbers of special educational needs in our school system and I think quite significant in terms of eligible for free school meal students the one of the highest in mainstream schools in the country so I think the backdrop given the context that we are in I think there is a lot to be very positive about in terms of these outcomes broadly speaking when compared with national we compare very favorably across most key stages and the challenge moving forward is how we improve outcomes so that we are above in a London and as an executive head teacher I'm also very conscious that it's quite it's fairly straightforward to present lots and lots of data and the key thing I think for the school improvement team is what are we learning from the data what are those insights that they provide and how do they more directly inform practice in the classroom and inform teaching and learning so the second part of the presentation really is just giving giving you a flavor and in terms of how we might use the data to support schools moving forward but I think some of the some of the key findings which shouldn't go unnoticed that is part of key stage one is concerned expected standard of greater depth outcomes better than national for reading writing and maths and I think quite significantly greater depth outcomes also exceeded in a London it's one of the one of the few key stage key performance indicators where we do out before in a London and I think that's testament to the work that school leaders and staff in those schools and parents do with their children to attend those schools and to achieve those outcomes key stage two we exceeded national across most indicators and again falling short with some KPIs when compared within a London absence and persistent absence remains a stubborn issue which I'll be referring to shortly and key stage four in our secondary schools I think it's significant to know that pupils achieving a standard pass that's grade four to nine and four English and maths was in line with national and above national for those pupils attaining a strong pass which is grade five to nine but again both indicators lower than in a London and at key stage five some really strong outcomes across our vocational qualifications for young people which suggests that a large number of our pupils are on the right courses and are doing very very well and again a stubborn issue will moving forward as a percentage of students achieving three A start at A so we were below inner and national and that'll be a key focus for us moving forward our neat figures those in not an education employment or training continue to fall down to four and a half percent but there are still challenges there to bring that figure down even further and then finally in terms of the key findings and this is something I think to celebrate 96 percent of our school settings in Islington are good or better compared with 88 percent nationally and given the number of settings we have in Islington you know each school represents one and a half percent so sometimes smaller authorities are prone to larger swings and I think it's tested again the work that school leaders are doing in schools that we have a very impressive figure and but are working hard to achieve 100 percent in the not too distant future and as I alluded to earlier school absence some persistent absence post-pandemic is a national issue and it's none more so than in Islington where we do have we are still above inner London and national but some really encouraging signs with regards our suspension rates reduced from 2022 and in fact the provisional national figures for 2023 suggest that we will be at our lowest points in 2015 so again in terms of inclusion across our schools who really strong work going on to ensure that we keep young people in our schools and terminate those outcomes for young people again above national and our progress eight school which is a figure which represents the progress that young people may given their starting points from year 7 to year 11 again in line with national and working hard to have that figure above inner London some of our ethnic minority groups where where we're working hard to improve outcomes remain within our black caribbean mix white and black caribbean cohorts and both of those key stages two and four key stage two and key stage four were below their peers so we know that lots of hard work ahead to ensure that we we bring those groups up and what I've included in the presentation and it goes back to the point I made at the start around learning from the data across all our key stages we have a very large range so if I've got page 21 on my notes here where we have and I thought what I'd do is very quickly just highlight the the range across each key stage because I think it's it's an important aspect of how we can support young people moving forward across across eastern so the earliest foundation stage we have the national figure of 67 percent the range across Islington goes from 30 percent all the way through to 88.9 percent so what you have there in terms of the earliest foundation stage are nearly a 60 percent range of outcomes which is quite significant and I think the challenge is to as we increase our average it's not only look at the good practice that we have in our schools that are achieving very high outcomes but actually those schools that are at the lower end how do we ensure that the good practice that we can see in in a lot of our schools is shared with those schools that may be find themselves in more challenging circumstances so that's the early years foundation stage when we go to key stage to phonics again the phonics outcomes and the range here the national figure of 79.9 percent in a London percentage is 81 percent we have a range in Islington from 38.9 through to 96.6 so again not dissimilar to the earliest foundation stage a large range and what that's what that shows us is that we have 28 schools above national and 25 above in London so some really good practice in a lot of our schools across Islington if I move to key stage one with a similar theme we have across reading writing and maths national figures of 68 60 and 70 percent respectively the range across Islington for reading goes from 25 percent to 88 12 and half to 85 and 33 to 92 so I won't repeat these across the other key stages but I think the message here is that we have a a wide range in terms of outcomes across our school and the challenge of schools and a challenge moving forward is how do we support our schools so that the sharing of best practice is facilitated by the local authority and I think as we move from a from very much a delivery led model which may have been fit for purpose pre-COVID I think as we as we now recognize the long tail of COVID which was mentioned by the schools commissioner for a few weeks back at our attendance conference that long tail is now beginning to wag certainly in terms of our secondary outcomes those young people are entering secondary now in year seven were in year three year four in primary schools and those gaps in knowledge I think our primary colleagues are now finding a challenge at secondary so I think moving forwards it's it's about a post-COVID delivery model that looks at how the local authority facilitates sharing best practice across our schools and I was just going to add as well when Ben's describing that variability and the model in terms of what do we do with that information as Ben's described it's understanding the context of those individual schools that are booking the trend so for instance those schools that high-performing but high have high levels of FSM high levels of SCN and what can we learn from those schools so it's not just looking at the variability across those schools but also the context that those high-performing schools operate within and how you then match those schools with similar profiles to support each other drawing for the expertise absolutely so so on that point what I've just given you an overview of is a range across all our schools but as Sarah has just quite rightly said what's useful for school leaders is comparing those outcomes in clusters clusters of schools that have similar intake so similar intake in terms of deprivation similar in intake in terms of ethnicity in terms of free school meals so that school leaders actually have an opportunity because there is still a range when you look at clusters of schools we still see there is a range of outcomes so there is good practice to be learned irrespective of the intake of those schools and I think the exciting opportunity for us as a school improvement team is actually identifying really strong outcomes in schools in difficult circumstances and sharing the best practice in those schools across other schools in a spirit of collaboration and using our isn't professional partner model and as the intelligence if you like on the ground in terms of where that best practice lies so I look forward to being here in a year's time relaying the 2024 outcomes two key things to have narrowed that range and increased the average across all key stage four indicators and have a really positive message in terms of how we compare with our inner London boroughs thank you thank you so I'm going to open it up to members to ask questions if you stick to one question at a time I promise you I'll come back to you so I see Mary indicating so we'll go to Mary and then councilor you'll go across Armstrong press your button Mary sorry um when you were talking about the key findings um and we're looking at the third page the bottom the black carabiner mix white and black carabin pupils have lower levels of attainment now we've always had a problem in addition to lower levels of attainment and I've been on a committee in Islington where we were looking at that and really what when we even looked at EYFS in nursery there was lower levels of attainment at that point so I'm not too sure about matching it all up with um attendance because maybe that's a new thing but in the past that wasn't the overriding concern that that was there because we were looked at them from right at the beginning and there was always that kind of dichotomy we were almost talking about actually you know tracking them in order to sort of give them enhanced stuff so I'm questioning that sorry how do um and uh talking about range second question we always have had that range but in a way we also have to focus on those children that are at the bottom end you know we'll have the top end but without I don't want it to be diluted into oh we're great because we've got this amazing range we've often had we have very middle-class pupils we coming in who go after uh secondary schools that have got to do tests and various things so I'm not saying that it's all middle-class kids that go after succeed but we've always had that kind of range and I think it I don't want it to be water that we don't look at how important it is to look at those lower the range where EYFS what is going on you know really with some of the children no thank no I just I just maybe wanted to go that one step and say that I'm not celebrating the wide range at all what I'm saying is the way you have a wide range um suggests that actually yes you haven't the higher end schools doing very very well but those schools are performing less well the the larger your range suggests that there are a number of schools with poor outcomes that may well be struggling with cohorts that you've just described Mary and in terms of ethnicity in terms of our black caribbean usamaling communities our turkish communities those communities that maybe don't acquire that language acquisition in the early year stage which is so crucial when we compare similar schools that do have stronger outcomes for those cohorts you've just described what are we doing to share the best practice so what is it that school A that has good outcomes for our Somali population and our black caribbean population our turkish population our free school meals what are they doing that a school in a very similar context with a similar intake isn't doing and could learn so school be learning from school A and I think the challenge for school improvement is how do we first of all identify that best practice identify strong leadership in schools how do we create an environment where school leaders have the capacity to share that best practice across schools so that what we in fact do we narrow the range so that the so that we don't have those lower outcomes and that by narrowing the range towards the top end our averaging increases and can you remind me what the second question and the second question I can't remember is but I've got actually why is working class children not mentioned anywhere I can't see white working class children we always have that as a cohort as well so it seems to be missing but but going back to your the three that came up the turkish Somali and someone else that they seem to be coming up lower I do I would like to ask are they going to preschool are they going to nursery or are they going directly to a reception because of that thing to do with EAL just wondering I think if you're doing a deep dive and seeing what's going on with all the primary scores and why but anyway whatever I can't remember what my second question is no that's why it's always good to just last one could you turn your speaker off Mary? sorry so we're going to go to council you've got ourselves from them are you going to come over here thank you chair so these are quite troubling self-results outcomes and talk about range and I just want to clarify if this range is unique to isn't it or is it shared amongst fellow in the London schools and more broadly and then kind of building on that range kind of digging down a bit deeper do we have students who after 13 years of schooling in isn't it? I have ended up with no qualification whatsoever and so that's one end of the spectrum and then at the end of the spectrum can you confirm if we have students who have gone on to Oxbridge and Cambridge as well thank you sorry can I just go back to your the first did you say these are a troubling set of results and okay um given this is my first time in scrutiny I'm I have to challenge that and I think there are certainly aspects of the outcomes where there are opportunities to improve but I think when when you look at 24 000 young people in Islington that are in 96 percent of our schools are the good or outstanding I think the vast majority of young people across Islington are achieving well the challenge that you're quite the challenge I think the school leaders and for the local authority in terms of supporting those schools which you're you're quite right to mention is where are we where are those young people who aren't achieving in line with others who where are those groups that we could be doing more for and how do we collectively when I say collectively I'm talking about school leaders parents the local authority work in partnership to raise those outcomes so yes you have asked some some very valid questions how many young people of disadvantaged backgrounds do we have ending up in Russell Group universities how do we use our anchor institutions like the Met to be coming into our schools talking with young people about their aspirations about higher education um what sort of programs are we putting in place that give young people from a very early a to the opportunity to be aspirational and dream about their futures um you know that old edge that you can't be what you can't see are we ambitious for all our young people now our school leaders in our schools absolutely are ambitious for young people what the question that we have to ask is where we are going to wrap because you you're asking a lot of questions and I think my colleague is asking for answers so you're asking more questions yes how many are going to Russell Group what are we doing what are we learning how many are leaving with with no qualifications whatsoever so come come come back back to the question and when you look at four four point five percent young people at need not an education environmental training at 16 that is clearly not good enough and in terms of the solutions moving forward it's about starting early identifying those cohorts recognizing the key indicators um those families that maybe don't take up the early year offer those families in primary school that have low attendance those families that are fairly mobile and we have where we have high mid-year admissions across schools looking at the triggers early on and putting in place the support that ensures that those young people get back on track as quickly as possible um putting in things like we've um we're establishing an inclusion pathway so we are looking at those young people at risk in primary school but not being successful at secondary because the early indicators are with lower attendance with high suspensions that they are less likely to achieve at secondary school to put in place for those young people and where we have a wide variety of offers across East lington things like a 11 by 11 offer our many cultural offers active row islington up with bound lots of universal offers that schools um offer their best pupils how good are we at targeting some of the universal offer programs that we have in place towards those inclusion pathway students so that if you are at risk of not being successful in mainstream education in year seven that you have the opportunity to be involved in 11 by 11 to go and visit the Metropolitan University to be involved in up with bound to be involved in acts of row islington to be mentored by undergraduates to have the sorts of experiences that may be more advantaged their more advantaged peers maybe to take the granted so it's um it's a cultural change i think moving forward to make sure that those young people that are at risk of underachievement are given the full opportunity to succeed across their school life i don't think we still haven't got an answer to the question which may be done so i'll give some facts on the answer so sorry so so with yeah it's a fair challenge in terms of going to rhetoric university so you can see in our key stage five information that we only have nine point two percent of children young people sorry they're not really children they are at that point that achieve three a stars to a you know against a comparison of 15 percent so it's it's not high enough and similarly with our young people in education and training 97 percent go on to employment and training against a slightly higher percentage across london but and so there is more work to be done there and i think what ben's done is articulate some of the things that we put in place to support improvement but i guess the reason we started with that contextual information is we are the highest national you know uh local authority with the highest level of free school real eligibility and with the highest number of se end so that's not an excuse we still have to have the same level of aspiration what you're right to point out that post-16 is an area that we have identified as all where we need to be doing better i'll come back to you because we're going to go to councilor craig and then councilor north okay just a quick comment but then my question um i don't think we should necessarily view going to a red brick university or rockford and Cambridge is a mark of academic success plenty of children with adequate grades turn down places at those universities or choose not to apply for starters so i think that's important to remember that it's not the be all and end all um my question is though we're still on the subject of gifted children or young people in key stage one greater depth are exceeding in london by key stage two they're um across all areas there below in alondon why what's happening they should be excelling i think you're right um obviously we are comparing slightly different cohorts so the cohort that we're talking about here in key stage two obviously what we would expect the cohort of key stage one the 2023 and you're absolutely right that they've exceeded national and in alondon the expectation would be that that cohort um that's now in key stage two in primary schools that when it comes to their key stage two outcomes will also achieve above in alondon and above national so we're not so we sort of we're we're not comparing similar cohorts i think the ambition moving forward is that we outperform in alondon um in all key stage key stages but my impression is that that's not just a post-covid thing that this was a trend before covid and we can't be sure that the key stage one who are at greater depth are still going to succeed in secondly so what we're going to do to make sure that they do john sorry yeah thank you i mean i think it's it's a killer question it's a really good question and one one needs to consider i mean i think the point that's being raised in around that that um variability uh in there across each and every one of those face just it's really important we're seeing the very very high and in my words the very very low um and trying to reduce reduce that what i think what we have have seen and and notwithstanding there is that variability across the country because the concern is around the the attendance and this really group know very well attendance in this linton isn't good enough but it's not good enough across the whole country so there's those concerns about the variability because young people aren't attending school as much as they they should be however i think what sarah and ben have put in place in terms of that isn't a professional partner was that three years ago there may have been you know i i know a number of uh chairs the governors and heads had their own sip for one of an old old phrase an old money it was not consistent so we did know that um you know schools would ask us who could be broke or who could we find and that's that's where we we're getting to every single school having that so that you can really tackle really look at some of that data to really be thinking about who are the young people that you should be targeted and i think the point i i say and i say it's ahead when we have heads it's just meeting with when it goes to the business of them is actually it's about getting that forensic look but getting back to school improvement part of what i think our heads and schools haven't deal with this so much buffeting around the system for so many other things that are going on it's not just these links and either it's other that they're having to focus on you know well-being sends variability autism feeding kids that actually and the reminder is again don't forget core purpose school standards young people best outcomes so i think your question is actually right so now is that as a team that's what we look at and that's what we go back to schools they write what are your you know what are you doing and you go there and you know that schools are thinking strategically and operation about what they have to do to get these kids up and you know we have to strive to reduce that variability within class within school across the system to make sure that those young people who can fly we talk about potential they need to thrive they need to get what they need to get so they can get onto that correct pathway and that's the question is actually right as well you know too many young people who aren't getting on the right pathway at that letter part of the school system so you know i think that's where we're striving our aim is best in class in London not national so we meet national but that for me is just the abridged band we have to be striving for best in class can i just piggyback on council greats question because when you look i mean the absence is it's not a great story and we don't seem to be turning it around i'm i'm sorry to say that but assistant absence in primary schools has gone from 11 percent to 21 percent and i hear what you're saying about you know multiple complex need in the borough and and the effects of austerity and all of that but we are now significantly worse than our statistical neighbors and we know that in Hackney and Harrington the same problems pertain. I think what maybe doesn't come out in this report is that there will be some schools whose attendance is fine and much better than average and there will be some schools that have got cataclysmically bad attendance and probably where 50 percent of students are persistently absent that's not the story that comes from the data but is that in fact the story? I think the i'm going to come back to the the similar school clusters i think what we can learn moving forward is that within within those attendance figures there will be schools that have very similar intakes that have similar challenges and there will be a range so there will be some schools in those clusters that have persistent absence figures much lower than national and much lower than in a London and there will be schools that have overall absence figures much higher than in a London and national. The challenge is what are those schools doing to achieve those outcomes and how do we take that best practice and share it with those schools in similar circumstances with similar intakes and share that best practice so that those schools can benefit from from that learning and i think the what we've learned from from that nationally from recent offset inspections is offset there's an expectation that schools are doing all that they can to ensure that those PA families those severe absence families are given the support they can so those young people coming into school and that those schools know their data and are working really closely and hard on those areas those stubborn issues but i think we have we have lots of good practice in Islington that we can share with similar schools moving forward. Councilor North, is your question on persistent absence? No but i'm going to come back to you because i'm going to go Councilor Conbury your question is on absence isn't it? So we'll go Councilor Conbury and then Nick if your question is on absence in particular thinking about secondary absence and i think you're absolutely right Sheila that there is an alarming problem in the primary as well but secondary school the the data shows page 43 of the PDF report that we'll have that we are a little worse than school neighbors a little worse than in your London the thing that i think is is not showing here is what the what the range of persistent absence is between different secondary schools these data shows just the first two terms of last school year in fact the DFE has now published the full three terms of last school year and is into this worse than a little bit on average from 27 up to 29 percent but the crucial point here is that one school is only 10 percent and that's in alibisius one school is 43 percent and that's arts and media closely followed by Call of Hybrid Grove at 40 percent call of Islington at 33 percent speaking higher 32 percent so the school with with the toughest problem has got a problem there's more than four times greater than the school which has got least problem and funnily enough i can't see any particular demographic characteristic that would explain any of this at all um Occam's Razor what therefore is the most likely thing it's something about the way the schools are handling the problem of persistent absence and when you talk to parents and swap experience and when you look at some of the schools where you can see some pretty good practice i think the Beacon High does pretty well i'm a safeguarding governor there for quite some interesting insights into how they have a very graduated set of interventions we've got individualized people plans you've mentioned in correspondence sheila that's actin burley is an exemplar for this um schools that do not accept as the most last resort even talk about issuing fines that their focus is on the on the children and what they need and it does seem to me that that's the difference between schools which are experiencing the most challenging problem and and those which are doing okay and just put in context 29 percent isn't good it's worse than the national average worse than the london worse also school um neighbors that's 2339 kids in secondary schools in islington are persistently absent that's a lot a lot of kids um and the frustration here is actually that we as the local authority don't have very much leverage over the schools particularly the ones which are academies in really um shining the spotlight on what the practice in those schools is so the question how are we actually going to exercise some leverage particularly over the schools which are not our schools to officers want to come back to that yes and some really good points made from council concrete um we have set up a deputy network partial deputy so as colleagues will know and secondary schools tend to have a partial deputy and a curriculum deputy the partial deputy group um has representation from across the academy and the maintain sector and we're excited that this is this i believe this is the first time this has happened for so many years so we are actually gaining a deeper understanding what is happening across both the academy and the maintain sector um schools in islington and there is learning to be had i think from from both sectors the key thing with the key thing for tenants at secondary is that essentially it boils down to leadership of management often attendance is one of those things it is it is about doing lots of different things well it is the mark it is it is it is about the marginal gains across attendance and where we have strong transition from primary to secondary schools where the good practice that has existed in primary schools transitions across to secondary school and primarily that's around continuing the engagement with families and what we are seeing across some of our schools where attendance is more of a struggle that actually maintaining those relationships with families that may be harder to reach and from primary to secondary is a key aspect of maintaining strong attendance and reducing persistent absence but it is it is it is a multifaceted challenge about doing lots of small things well across a wide range of objectives i was just going to add also i think on some of the practical things we have now inclusion hopes where we brought schools together to share their good practice in terms of attendance and what we've learned from those schools because bens right it's not one thing but what we do know is parental engagement is significant and what schools of totals also is you know the aggression that they're experiencing with parents and the mental health of some of the parents also so one of the things we have committed to or we're hoping to is uh develop attendance mentors through um the application of the mayor of fund the decision hasn't been made yet but it came from a task and finish group involving members and the objective was recognizing that whereas we used to have you know offices like home school liaison officers education welfare officers that work that engages directly with families hasn't been happening because we haven't had those resources but it is that door knocking going round knowing the families you know bring building that trust back as well so i think it is about engaging with the community as well as understanding the data and what works well i think it is really about you know its parents another thing that emerged from the conversations when candy was hosting the inclusion hub that came from one of our heads was you know the sort of uh penalty fines that we have for attendance they were saying why don't we turn that round and make it a more asset-based approach and you know where you get uh if you do i'm sure none of you have ever done this but if you're caught for speeding you have to do a speeding awareness course well why don't we do an attendance awareness course for parents you know rather than going down that and we don't do this but you know a punitive route but about understanding the impact because attendance is a protective factor if you're in school you're more likely to do well and bringing up what we're saying about disproportionality black caribbean families if they're overrepresented in poor attendance then obviously that impacts on their overall outcomes so things are like you know doing an attendance awareness course understanding the impact the long-term impact of not attending school but also about striving towards more inclusive settings you know up-skilling schools so that they can be more create that sense of belonging so that children with additional needs in particular that again are represented in our poor attendance feel a sense of welcome and belonging within those schools so it is multifaceted but i do think the engagement with parents is critical to that thanks we're going to stay on attendance Nick and then Councillor Igorovas Armstrong and then Councillor Bostman Kwashi on attendance I'm telling you to answer my question because it was going to be about research families so just one other question was Ben which was talking about the best practice clusters which sounds good but what's your time to go for that well we're looking to take the education board in fact this week a proposal we've already worked up and what we made based those clusters on and it's it's like a piece of string isn't it you know there are so many key performance indicates that you could use but we think that free school meals and send is it is probably the most sensible the most sensible to key measures to to base those clusters on and in terms of time scale the isn't some professional partners that are now we've now rolled out across all our maintained schools they will they will then provide the evidence on the ground so that we can then start pulling together and best practice and the support that's needed certainly by the end of the summer term so that by the start of the autumn term 24 25 we can then start coming out to school leaders and saying these are the areas that we are looking for support do you have the capacity in your school to provide middle leaders senior leaders that can help us share that best practice across those clusters without including church schools as well absolutely church and faith schools are very much part of this process and just echoing what Sarah has just said let's not lose sight of the fact that pupils that are happy in school and are achieving will go to school so it's about that quality first provision it's about teaching and learning it's about providing those environments in school where there is that sense of belonging and stronger attendance and lower obsistent absences are an outcome of achieving those things thank you i'm quite happy they mentioned education board because i think my question is um where are they um attendance is dreadful across the board um and i think there needs to be more accountability um to how they're actually solving this critical issue um but then to my point building on council's concrete is a leverage point um and actually a lot of points that were brought up about mental health and working with families and children um is what can the council do um has the council considered a model policy on flexing schooling um to try to get young people into school at least a few days um if not for all of them um because we need to do something yeah i was just the first you first point about the education board i think you're totally correct i think that there needs to be a shift in in accountability we have representatives at the education board from you know our academies our secondaries our primaries and the diocese and it and it is evolving but i don't think it's still very much the local authority doing too rather than here's our shared aspirations how are you what are you going to do to help us to achieve them and what are we going to do so i think there is a movement but there's still very much a sort of cultural issue that we just have to bridge that gap between there's a local authority there's schools and actually have here's a system that we all operate within and we have a shared vision for all children to do the very best so i think there is you know we've talked about shifting the dynamic within that board so that it is more collaborative and i think your second point on flexing learning um yeah it's noted in the report that at this point when we published um the were the 300 electively home educated children it's now actually reduced it's under 300 and we are we have explored options around flexing learning whereby you know they wouldn't come back into school full-time but they would potentially attend school for some time um it's quite complex you know but we are continuing to do that Kelly i don't know if you wanted to update on the conversations you had directly with a school that was exploring the flexing learning yes so um it is a complicated set of arrangements if you if you flexi school your account is absent on the days that you're not in in school the continuity of learning is is you know very difficult if you're learning two days at home one day in school but we have talked to a couple of schools who are you know clean to extend it you know if we develop as a a center for flexi schooling that might fill a fill a hole and fill a gap so i think and certainly we've had experience of one school where there were four children uh electively home educated one the oldest one said that he wanted now to go to school he came into school and very soon after the three siblings followed so so so it can it can work then they moved out of borough which was a a bit of a blow um so so i think there's you know there is more definitely that we can do we can do around that also well i've got the microphone i think um i think there's more work we could do with governors as well i i think we've not done any specific training around this with um um attendance and monitoring and their governance responsibility because i think there's i i definitely think if you're probably your governors your yourselves and how often do you discuss attendance that your your governing body meetings so i think there's more we can do with with that group too and so i came to um to explore that council boss makwashi and then mary and then councilor gurnham thanks chair and um thank you for the the report really detailed and um i guess mind's a little bit of an echo but a statement but a kind of roundabout question and it goes back to the community engagement so just wondering has the council um thought about going back i hate to bring the seaward into this uh with the covid 19 when we had the letter from the leader we had a letter from specific cabinet um holders so in terms i know councilor michina is not here today but just thinking about how we put that message out to different households and thinking about doing like a survey to you know get that data so we're very specific and it's just the the reason why i'm asking is because it is we can't say for example i'm i'm a black uh gone in uh uk diaspora so my counterparts is being caribbean i can't assume that maybe they're like myself of a certain faith so we can't assume that it's a homogenous group that can kind of pinpoint why are these absenteeism is continuing so i'm just wondering back to council nesters point about stack of days um you know time is coming in looking at our EAL and also looking at obviously um children with specific educational needs there is something that we need to kind of look at and it might not be textbook what we do need to get our children back into school so it's anything from your side as officers that you can think that we can do going forward so surveys you know looking at bringing that data back in and hearing from the parents and even the children and young people why they're not in school thank you yeah i mean i think the idea of the attendance awareness courses is a good example of because i don't think parents necessarily all parents necessarily understand the consequences you know of of of persistent absence so i think there's something to explore there and it was helpful that that actually came from the school i think we're in a walking a bit of a tightrope at the moment in terms of if we were to issue a letter because obviously in parallel we're doing the school art piece i think the relationships are not as as strong as we would like them to be so i think it's about how do we uh exert some challenge um whilst also um retaining relationships so i think things that we can do in a more asset-based way you know like understanding the impact of poor attendance through the attendance mentors for instance might uh you know getting back out working with families directly i think those kind of approaches are helpful yeah just coming quickly in their chair for me i think um i was at a secondary school just last uh last Thursday 20 percent of year 11s are off with emotional school avoidance and 160 across the whole school one school not an academy as well because pulled twins made well well well made but i was staggered by that that 160 and you and i have spoken about you know other schools uh you know where and what they might do and they have they have scale but when you get down to the to the nitty gritty a number of staff going holding conversations through bedroom wall doors because they can't get through and the gains are our marginal might get them in for half a day then revert to i know candy there was a um a pilot that went on where they where they really did a nurturing bring a group nurtured them in for a couple of weeks and then brought them back in so there was a bit of that flexi schooling and social contract but i think this is this is part of the ask from schools again where where they say we don't have the resources as at primary school Gillespie last week as well they said they have now half the number of staff that they had in 2014 now if you go and go across schools that that that was a group of people that they collectively could bring together who could work pastorally but of course ten ten years ago eight years ago we didn't have this crisis that we have and and it doesn't sit comfortably sitting in the bottom quarter on national attendance either it's it's it doesn't fit uh if it were but what i would say is that you know the government have not funded this duty the duty has not been funded withdrawn schools are now asking what we need is the old school exchange the welfare officer who will go and and it's not what's going to work that that sort of stick with those uh you know those young people with emotional school avoidance however there is a system where it's lost a little bit of that sort of um tenacity um and and how do we bring that back and it takes takes a bit of time interesting HMIs have been trained on the 20th of May about school contextual factors which also include attendance because of this because of this narrative as well as reducing school numbers because they have to recognize i think they are recognizing the changing nature it's still not good enough that our our our children are not in school so it's not pushing forward a set of um excuses but when you hear from ahead about 160 few students who are not in school because of most of school avoidance you know what do you need us to do and by part of this is what as Sarah's um a bold about school attendance officers but also around that pilot that we need to scale up and we need to scale up rapidly as well. Point is well made John I'm going to make a couple of comments in response and then I know that I've got three members Mary Rosalyn and Claire who we'll hear from but I just want to say everyone here will be sympathetic to the point you make around budget cuts which means schools are operating with less staff but with respect the fact remains that's nationally and that our statistical neighbors are also in that situation. The situation you've described is an emergency it's an attendance emergency like we have a climate emergency and my feeling my information about the education board that is coming second and third hand is that that apparatus is moving slowly and not like it's responding to an emergency so hearing that it's evolving and that may be by you know the next term autumn term 24/25 that doesn't feel like it's being grasped with the appropriate feeling of absolute urgency because what we do know is that when children stop attending in primary when anybody stops attending regularly at any point it is very hard to turn that around and I wanted to just go back to some of the things you've said that through these hubs that have been put in place to share practice that the practice you're talking about which is good quality of provision drives attendance a sense of belonging drives attendance having a successful transition to primary to secondary is good for attendance as is parental engagement none of that is rocket science we know that that's always been known if that if that's the best practice that's being shared it's not earth shattering those my observations they're not questions so i'm going to take a question from mary roslin and then claire and then an estus if we can keep it to one question each and then we are going to move off the topic of attendance okay thank you and listen to your discussing it I feel like this is such a major subject are we talking about primary attendance are we talking about secondary because they're both obviously very different i'm looking at the key stage one results and the key stage two a key stage one reading is okay a little drop but writing substantially so that might be to do with the co but the covid pandemic because they're attending and language obviously does inform writing and so they wouldn't have been coming into school and and sort of utilizing all the expertise and the teaching the other things i would like to ask is okay i don't want to go down it's not really a rabbit run about attendance it's very obviously striking that it's there and especially with secondary but the other things that concern me is the characters of schools have they changed dramatically have there been a whole load of staff leaving to do with whatever as there been a new head i mean those kind of things will have an impact as well um the cost of living crisis has impacted our mental health of parents and possibly pupils because those children how much have they been picked up with camps i know the cuts have affected everywhere and it's okay to to blame this that and the other but i think camps has been affected those children have you we don't know what they've gone through if they're avoiding school school is obviously not nurturing enough of them and that's not blaming the school but something has to to give in order to get those children in but you're right what you said Sarah about making it very clear the impact of lack of attendance that that needs to be done but maybe rather than a sort of debt i hate the deficit model i think it's a positive one that everyone should be involved in and children should be praised for attending and maybe get prices and get phones and get whatever as long as they're not smart phones or something you know safe ones or something but i think having in the past in the last however many years i used to see boards up where would they'd have how many classes had got the best attendance so all of those are things that can be employed but it it isn't just one thing okay we'll do in attendance and then everything moves your question everything needs to be doing so my question is is how much are you looking at the different characters of schools and what has happened and if there have been changes that are perhaps a bit more explicit than just attendance sorry thank you and some very good points there Mary coming back to the chair's point around none of this is rocket science that's absolutely right it's often very simple strategies across the range varies that have a big impact and if i can give you one example where we've noticed strong engagement with parents it can be something as simple as a coffee morning once a fortnight with a particular community that can have a huge impact because what you're doing is you're bringing those those parents that may well have had that support a primary school and a secondary and those things may not be in place coming back to candy's point about governance where you have strong governing boards that reflect the communities that they serve where you have that expertise and you can reach those communities and facilitate something as simple as a coffee morning some secondary schools are highlighting that as being having had a huge impact because once those parents are in the school you can then have those conversations or add any barriers to attendance when they're in front of you when you're talking with families you can then unpick the issues that sometimes can be sold relatively easily but the challenge is to have that consistency of approach across all our settings with regards the makeup of the staffing and the leadership yes the schools can can change from year to year new new signature teams new school leaders I think what the using to professional partner model affords us is that where we do have a new school head coming into post we can support that new school leader where we have particular issues in a school around staffing again we can work across schools to potentially plug those gaps but i can't lie and say that recruitment and attention is an issue across our schools in in his weeks and sorry i was just going to ask you no teaching right now it's a bit of a thankless task and i think i think this needs to be outed because i think that all of those things like parental engagement the culture the ownership what drives improvement it's the ownership isn't it of you know of the culture within that school and the culture in schools right now isn't in a great place you know we've had the issue with roose perry we've had the issue of resources not being improved you know for decades in terms of real terms alongside a huge surge in SCN so i think absolutely the this needs to be grasped and it does need to be articulated within that urgent sense but i think schools are feeling very beleaguered and feeling like they are front line service so i i do think that there is if you're asking directly what has changed education has been professionalized demand has increased funding has reduced and schools have been asked to do more and more absolutely they need to do that because we should have the same level of high aspiration for all children but doing it right now is not great it's not a great place to be so the the more we can do this as you've said in an asset-based way where we're actually instead of sending a letter out saying you're doing everything wrong but how do we celebrate what you are doing well you know and there is a lot of good in these results also first time since 2015 that's what i was trying to say there is i this is in criticise it isn't in school so brilliant ninety percent of them are good at standing let's not get into a we have to focus on what is gearing up but actually they aren't really good schools in isn't it they have been brilliant for years and secondary is starting to to catch up with primary but you you know just even the results you can explain a lot of some of those results to do with the pandemic you know to do with writing writing is a little bit down in key stage two as well but that can come up that those things can be improved but i agree with you the the whole thing so we do need to have a bit more positive as well rather than to be on the the criticism because people don't respond to that children don't respond to it is is actually yeah I'm going to bring in Councilor Gunro and Councilor Zamit and then we're going to move on from attendance yes thank you chair the attendance awareness course for parents which you mentioned is a good one but why don't we have one for the young people themselves if we can identify who they are the young people who are not going to school and and not attaining so yeah so if we could run one for the young ones themselves that we go and many young people do go online for all manner of information we could use online stuff to reach these children by promoting marketing advertising if need be at the immense benefits of going to school so that's my suggestion thanks we'll hear from Councilor Zamit and then you can respond to both and actually I might build on what Ross said as well because so I was thinking about what is the correlation between where you live and entertainment as well and you know thinking about even the culture of where you live in you know big housing estate you know what more if the Council is thinking about the different services and how they can also help you know is it that a particular state needs some help around the culture about how they all feel about kind of going to school because I guess building on what Ross sort of said about peer networks social media you know I think we're in that time now we're actually you know children from a certain area of school probably talking to each other kind of through kind of social network tick tock etc etc and you know and if one thing that they shouldn't be going to school perhaps the other things they shouldn't be going to school as well so we we're in this kind of we're in a slightly new age aren't we so whilst though I believe that looking on the doors and talking to the parents art is really impossible I think to Ross's point about it's like their own peer networks need to think it's important but I think the correlation with housing was also about you know if where you live is not great you know as well do you think that has some type of correlation on attendance and therefore should we in the council be doing better in other areas as well I'll answer that that simply because I do spend a lot of time analyzing the data and we look at the so we put the data into quartiles so these are the top performing schools this is you know second third these are these are the ones we have we're most concerned about and it is fascinating to see that in every group you have children from from all over the borough and schools and all over the borough there is no geographical correlation whatsoever there is no correlation around three school meals there is no correlation around the number of children with send there is no if any indicator that you would like to use it is you know for all intents and purposes I completely round them so so what is the factor what is the you know the the one factor there and I have to come to the conclusion that it is about leadership and management but because it's the only it's the only variable that that's left um after you eliminate everything everything else so so that's um and that's not to say you know I think it's about the problem when I talk about leadership you know that's it's broadest it's broadest sense as well so so leadership management culture those are the you know those are the issues that we know we've got to work on thank you I think the sorry I was just going to say the has been the it might not be linked to a characteristic but there has been some new research just produced about assets in communities and if you live in a community where there is a children's center you are much more likely to do better so it might be worth sharing that um it's just been published so I think it's less about the characteristics and profile but more about the assets within that community and whether you access them I think it's just come back to the point that was made earlier around social media and peer groups talking about themselves I think it's also about creating a culture around what sort of adult what sort of citizen do you want to become how do you want to serve your community what do you want for your family the future and what aspirations do you have what what what what dreams do you have and come about to Candy's point about leadership and management I know only just too well school leaders absolutely passionate about the culture within their schools and the aspirations in their schools but often it is about signposting the opportunities that exist for young people in the future and how you get to points you know that end point is a combination of many things you know working hard in school being being ambitious being confident being resilient attending you know it's kind of signposting those important key aspects of an all-round education that will get you to the end point which which we all hope when young people will achieve towards thank you so we'll draw the conclusion on school results to do with absence to a close I think we'll just this committee going forward we'll have to find a way to have to maybe hear directly about the outcomes from the education board to feel satisfied that it is being treated as the emergency that it is but I think Candy provided you know the conclusion after an hour of discussion that it's to do with leadership and management so that's what we need to be scrutinizing directly going forward so thank you for that does does anyone on this committee have any questions on item B1 school results that is not attendance yes so Councillor you're more of us Armstrong and then Councillor North Councillor North and then Councillor you're more of us thank you you're both kind I'd like to ask about um elective home education it's reassuring that we've got some numbers on these young people within the report not least because it's an increasingly prevalent group since COVID and you know going back a couple of years ago on this committee they were previously a very invisible group where we weren't reviewing data and numbers on them but I would be keen to understand whether we do have access and visibility of any kind of data on attainment and outcomes for elective home educated young people and whether we're thinking creatively about how we can get hold of some data but also make an offer to those families that have made that choice to come and take exams within Islington schools so that you know we're offering those young people something of an Islington education even if they've opted out of the whole offer. So I will say that happily the numbers just started to turn and now I think we've reached the high the high point and some numbers are starting to decrease so that's the good news but still we've got you know ironically we're closing schools at a time when we've got a whole school's worth of children who are elective be home educated so it's not a you know that we can't miss that that point we do have very best to keep in contact with all of those families we have you know arrangements where we will visit or arrange to meet the families and the young people at least once a year that's about as much as we can manage but that's graded so where we might have more concerns or we were to do that more frequently we regularly provide them with information about health health checks and so on and so forth we've got good arrangements with our health colleagues so that all elective be home educated children that is known by the GP so that they will know for example you know to see the children perhaps rather than give telephone diagnoses we have got arrangements for exams so when we start approaching obviously year year 11 or the end of year 10 we're constantly in contact with those families to tell them about the exam centers and the arrangements they can make our careers team so we do as much as we can and that and it is very variable in terms of other response to that so some some families still are you know very much you know this is a philosophical you know choice and they keep in very good contact with us happy to show us examples of work and so on and so forth right so to the other end where you know this is we don't have to tell you anything which indeed they don't buy law we don't have to share any information with you we don't want any to receive any any information from you so we've got you know we've got quite quite a spectrum there so so we we do our best to keep in touch with with those families always in those visits or in those conversations it's a look at the curriculum and we also see samples of work that the children are doing but in terms of any any measurable outcomes unless they those children are are sitting in public exams and that that would be the only way that we would you know that we would be able to assess that other than as I say those that the advisor who makes those time visits this is an experience teacher so you know is able to give some some security but we do take it very seriously we're arranging an event a kind of coffee morning we don't miss it first time we've done this so we don't know quite how it's how it's going to go and how many will we will turn that but I can certainly keep you informed on that yeah and we keep we keep going can i just very quickly add to that and certainly at secondary level the Pascal deputies were talking about this very issue and there was an agreement with every school represented around the table how important it is to have a consistency of message from the particularly the secondary family of schools so that the approach towards selective home education is is consistent in terms of where we think elective home education is right for a young person we will support it but if we believe that actually that young person needs to remain in mainstream that that consistency of message is is is made very clear to families I think at the moment one could argue that possibly if school if a school is unsure what school down the road is saying regarding elective home education then we we may find families with young people being elective home educated who shouldn't be so again I think it's about moving forward what is what what as a family of schools in islington what are we saying what is our position on on ehe and come back to county's point about leadership and management having the moral purpose to stick with that message and make sure that those who should be in mainstream remain in mainstream I've got two more questions but I would just like a follow-up on that because it seems like what you've described there is a slight change in policy because I didn't know that as a local authority we were ever supporting home education I thought we were all our position was that the best place for a child is in a school and that the schools need to be inclusive to make that the best place for that child is that no longer the case that is the case it's very very very much the case so I think I think what Ben was describing was obviously there is parental choice to home educate and there is a very strong lobby obviously that of parents in terms of supporting elective home education but our position as a local authority would always be you know to keep those children in mainstream education also because it's a 1.9 million pound loss to the school budget if nothing else right if I could just ask questions don't put you on the spot in terms of a figure but if you were to what proportion of this cohort do you think they take up the offer of taking assessments within some schools you know when when they reach those those points I thought 60 40 I would say you know around that there's 60 in five in favor of taking up 40 40 not I think that's the that's the split that we've we've got that he's talking to be absolutely on so I've looked at the last few figures but certainly historically that's that's the sort of sort of proportion we certainly more of the elective home education families are you know working with us and you know and co-op writing than those that are that are not Councilor Gorovass Armstrong and then Councilor Crape thank you Chair so my question is potentially with a set of results that hasn't been reported in this paper which is Key Stage 1 which were statutory has now been removed so I just want to get understanding whether the government is still providing the papers for Key Stage 1 Sats are isn't on primary schools using those papers and if they are why there's a lot of research that backs up that for that age group it's not necessarily the best thing to do and that what would be a lot more productive is some sort of assessment for learning rather than a Sats paper and I guess within that same context is is there some sort of informal expectation for schools to do this from the Council or to compare results or anything to that kin? With regards the the optional Key Stage 1 Sats we have left out the school leaders to make that decision what we're undertaking at the moment is we're not clear how many will be using the optional Sats and how many won't so we're in the process at the moment of just gauging what that picture looks like across Islington and coming back to the other point around teaching and learning we will be gaining a deeper understanding for those that aren't what they're doing instead and again coming back to that comparing best practice across schools in terms of outcomes and what might be the direction of travel moving forward so we're picking up that picture at the moment Councillor Craig um given that if we've got 300 home educated children we're losing about two million do you get any central funding to support home educated children so we're losing money and they're costing us money yeah I mean we have invested in more support to work with those families so that we can reintegrate them because obviously we recognize that it's not always a good thing for those young people to be isolated but also because we obviously want that income in schools but there's no money for that from the central government so it's a loss to the council yeah okay colleagues if there are no further questions on the school results item we'll move on to B2 which is the report back after our deep dive into send and disabilities transitions thank you for the report which is really thorough apologies once again that was my first scrutiny and there were far too many recommendations I am forever sorry about that but you've done a good job of going through the more and putting down what you've done or if you haven't why you haven't done some of the things which all seem to make sense to me it'd be very interesting it says that you'll provide an update on the on the baseline report for supported internships which I think will be really interesting so make your presentation hopefully fairly briefly and then if we've got questions we can thank you yes so thank you very much for that it's three years since since we wrote that that report in that time numbers of children with education health and care plans have gone up by 35 percent in Eastlington and a greater across the country I think you know we've talked about the attendance emergency the send you know crisis comes a pretty close second to to to that at the moment so it's a very you know the context has changed dramatically over over that period so I think it's important to to say to say that our focus therefore has been on that on that wider issue so so to keep to keep in our sights the the recommendations that you've made for us has been a struggle nevertheless we're trying to keep them in our sights and I think it's um it reflects what we were talking about earlier I think around attendance what's been a really I think helpful lesson to to to us through through the range of recommendations and it was a it was a wide range but actually what we've got is a wide range of needs and I think each of these these recommendations have impacted on a different a slightly different group positively and I think with the collective of of that therefore is that we do see a significant difference I think in our relationships with families as a result of many of the the interventions we've put in place as a result of your deep dive and the recommendations I think our relationships with with parents has always been strong in this thing but I think it's strengthened so many of these initiatives because you know it's um it's made us talk more and get involved more with the with with the service users about their specific concerns rather than you know in a more in a more general sense and so so so we we're grateful I think for you know for the opportunity to to to be able to focus on some of these areas that we wouldn't otherwise have done necessarily and I think it's given us some some some really positive outcomes for for all the children because of our learning through so so as well as those you know who've received the improved services. Obviously as I say the situation generally would send is you know is tough and getting getting tougher but being assured isn't or remains you know on the right side of of many of the of the challenges that are really paralyzed in other local authorities we remain one of the very few local authorities who are still in balance in terms of the this high needs budget and that's that's no mean feat we're certainly we're struggling to keep to you know to maintain that that that situation. We are one of the change partners now for the national uh send an AP change program so we're in there trying to test some of the reforms that are being proposed ahead of a head of rollout and give advice back to um you know to central government on on those proposals we're involved in. We've been recently had an article published in what works in send talking about the partnership relationships that that exist in Eastington particularly with parents and parent groups but with me between health and social care services so so there's still a lot of positives I think that we can say you know in terms of of our system I recognize that you as members will be on the receiving end of of those families you know very often who are not you know have had for an outside of the system or are are dissatisfied there is you know an increasing level of dissatisfaction we know that you know nationally with the with the system so I hope you'll retain confidence in the that we continue to try to keep this and just keep things afloat and many of the as a side the the recommendations that you've made and the things that we've been able to put in place of help with with that so I'm really happy to answer questions on any of the as Kandy I just wanted to draw out three things that are really great which is that you've started to you've piloting this south locality inclusion hump to bring all those people together Senko's inclusion leads attendance leads and so on I think that's really great because what we heard was that people were not necessarily being joined up also really pleased that we've been asked to pilot to test a new template for the app for the plan itself because we heard a lot from people that it's long it's unwieldy it's confusing it's generic so that's terrific and the third thing was just this transitions drop-in service for young people that sounds like a brilliant idea so thank you for all your work and for sort of continuing to kind of innovate and that's I remember you saying at the beginning of the scrutiny I think I remember you saying when you started working for the council there were seven children who had a diagnosis of autism you then painted a picture three years ago of how that has exploded and now you've painted another picture that it's continuing to to increase so thank you for all the work I'll ask members if there are any questions on this review so we'll take councilor you've got a rest Armstrong thank you Chair just can we have that update about the internship summer internships I think I think that would be quite useful and then my actual question was with regards to isn't a strong or informed practice and I know that 35 schools have taken up the offer which is great I think 10 more at 33 percent increase coming up this year is that will we expect it to be how much more and what are schools doing so so obviously we're working for 100% and we would be very close to that at the end of this period but it's a bit like painting the Eiffel Tower you the schools need to refresh that train and you get a turn over in staff and so on and so forth so so we will be continuing that program for as long as we can fund it and I'm absolutely honest I'm in one of the some of the difficult decisions we're having to make now is about what we you know funding statutory but the priorities in terms of what we have to fund it and what we would love to fund if you know if we were able to do unfortunately the trauma informed you know practice is a non-statutory service so so we're having to review all the time but but certainly we know it's had a huge impact huge positive impact and our our wish and our desire would be to continue to to fund and and yeah practice in that way supported internships candy oh yes sorry yes and I'm happy to bring that that report back when whenever you are ready to to receive that we're not we were not to receive that today oh were we because on my agenda it says including update on baseline report for supported internships oh sorry I'll come with that data so I'll I'll apologize so we will put that on the work program for the first yeah okay because that would be great to hear about that um I don't see any do I do I do I do I do my goodness oh I'm going to go over here first because I'd like to hear from Sophie and then we'll go Councillor Craig and Mary so anecdotally I've heard that there is some differences between schools in terms of their willingness to accept send pupils and I think that's partly because the funding that follows the pupil doesn't always completely cover the costs of working with that pupil and some schools are doing a bit more a bit more of their share than others a bit more a bit more of the work um do you have anything in place to try and share that burden more burden and opportunity frankly but to share share that work more equally between schools so I would say we we're working on that daily and so so every consultation that we that we make we get lots I'm afraid of of pushback from schools to say exactly what you said the funding isn't isn't enough to do what we think um you know what we would like to do unfortunately what we have to and we have a a funding system that is quite complicated but the money comes down from central government we decide how we how we can best distribute that using a matrix of of need which officers look at based on the advice we make an assessment of the resources that we think are appropriate to meet that need so that's consistent across the borough every child that we see is subject to that same assessment and scrutiny the decisions are made by the same people so there is a consistency across the borough which 50% of schools will yeah etc happily and and others will say no we we know we need we need more to do what we what we what we would like to do our assessment of it sometimes differs from that sometimes we look at that and say fine perhaps there's something we've missed in the advice so it is a dialogue that goes on the unfortunate thing his parents have called in the middle of all of that and it's not pleasant for them or dignified to do it to be arguing about money when actually their biggest concern is having their their child's needs identified and and met it is an unfortunate sign of the times we are increasingly schools are both out borough in borough you know coming back and asking for more resource because their budgets are are reducing so it is a very difficult you know it's a difficult situation there are difficult conversations but we are you know we are having them we're doing our best to help people to understand the funding system and how it works but not to get into a finger pointing you know it's the government's fault or it's the local authorities fault or it's the school's fault or it's you know it's it's the child's fault the system is the system we all have to work within it and we know it's broken and the government know it's broken and it's quite an astonishing situation that we're in at the moment whereby the government said two years ago this system is broken and yet here we are still trying to to to to to to work it i've been talking to Sarah earlier earlier today about the you know the realities of the more funding has been put into the same system but actually if you look at that against inflation it hasn't really we had a situation in 2014 when the law changed and we were asked to make provision for young people up to the age of 25 instead of up to the age of 18 not an extra penny went into the system for that at that point we have 50 children who are over the age of of 16 in the system we've now got 400 and no additional funding for that we have to make the money go round as fairly as we can i think is the you know is is the reality and and there are an increasing number of schools who say well i need more in order to to to to do what you're asking there isn't anymore and that's the you know that that's the the reality so we have to we have to distribute it as best we as best we can thanks so we'll go councilor craved mary and then nick so it reminds a bit of a comment rather than a question i i've noticed i often do that um brief comment there's a lot of really good stuff in here and i particularly like with the transition stuff is good but also the things to do calendar the send section is much much better than it used to be however gosh if you don't like playing football you've not got a lot of choice on there we need to do things that aren't football and some of the things on there are out of date i found a lovely link to weekly i skating at the sobell for special educational needs so some might need to look and update it okay thank you and find some things that i'm going to call please thanks for that's helpful uh mary and then nick um mine is by two well one is um yeah i've worked in essence my life and you've done a great achievement going through all of this but i wonder we're not going to go and do another scrutiny is there something really glaring that you would like to have to recommend as to recommend or something i know you need more money but apart from money is there something that would benefit you that if we were doing it again perhaps that would go into there but uh yeah it's amazing and i actually think David Cameron um is responsible for a couple of things isn't he in life Brexit and for this because he influences i thought it's very ironic and this is my record but it's true really anyway i'll come and possibly comment nick mary could you just press your button sorry um candy uh you've got a huge increase in number children with scm and obviously we in school play that perfectly well have you got sufficient staff in your department to cope with the workload and if you don't you are you are you finding it's taking longer to uh to process those ATP applications so so we're just about there but we've been catching up so i think the you know the the huge increase um called the son of unawares um so so so we've been trying to to recruit staff we do we're doing some extra work um we're supporting other local authorities and to do the change partnership we've got some extra income and that income is paying for additional staff you know in order that we can we can manage this so hence my writing reports on the sunday and so it's so so we're doing what we can to to plug those gaps obviously it takes a while for those staff to get up to speed which we are we're training training them so we do recognize that that there's that there has you know the service has been uh as a site playing catch up our time scales have improved dramatically so we're now up to about 90 um just 85 90 percent of of assessments being completed within the um the 20 weeks so that's uh and we've gone right down to 40 at our worst you know most challenging of times that is working its way through so it won't necessarily be completely evident um you know out there yet that those uh again we've got those extra resources in place um and and obviously there is a challenge it's a challenge will come when um when the funding um runs out because these are time limited uh funds but but we'll cross that bridge when we uh when we when we get to it so for now we've managed to fill fill some gaps and uh and I'll I think just about fully staff now I think we've got one one more um uh uh opposed to to fill um thanks candy oh I was going to say we've got one more question but we now have two more questions so we're going to go council boss mquashy and then council that you've got over some strong and then we're going to move on to the last substantive item thank you chair um I guess it might be supplementary and to Nick's um question which is about um the send need and um I heard Sophie mention about some of the schools not showing their their notes so I'm just wondering do we have any um data in terms of like those that haven't even been um I guess diagnosed but I just like just on the boundary um so we can kind of get ready maybe get some support in because it's about prevention then you know then they're on the cure if that makes sense thank you yes so so um we've certainly well we've got no problem in identification of send I don't think um that's our challenge obviously it's the meeting needs once when um once they've been that the children have been assessed and have their their plan um we I think I can't really think we do our best with schools ultimately we can direct schools because this is the state of I think one of the you know one of the key challenges perhaps that people don't necessarily understand and I mean by that both parents and um schools and colleagues from other services is that we are working in the statutory framework once we begin a statutory assessment and education health and care assessment the law takes over basically we have to do things in accordance with the law there are rights and entitlements um then and actually and powers that we you know are able to take we try not to take them but ultimately we can direct the school um in law to admit the child or as I say we try to do it amicably and we try to do it in a you know in in the most collegiate why it's not good it's not good not for a child or a family to be entering the school because the school has been instructed to do that rather than welcoming welcoming that child so that's what we try to achieve but ultimately we do have statutory powers um to to to to to to insist and we do use that thanks candy and the final question on this item and Estes thank you it's just leading on the question about staff because obviously they're also links up to schools do we have enough special education needs school places or schools in general and that they secure sustainable which that's one thing I'm confident of um this um we we have the highest number of children in special special schools in the country literally we are now now the the highest and that comes from a you know a long history in in isington of um so especially provision in the kind of 90s to um two two thousands we re um um shaped and reformed and refurbished all of our special school school provision all of our special schools are co-located in mainstream slides they're all built um you know within the last 22 um to to 30 years purpose built um and um and we've got a very very good offer for a very small borough so we've so we've got provision for all four areas of the code of practice cognition and learning through samuel roads autism through through through the bridge physical and sensory through rigid clouds lee and new of a college which we always consider to be part of our uh special school provision and indeed that's the way the government is going with with with send an AP now is what they is what they talk about so we're we're really really blessed i think with our uh with the strength of our offer every one of those schools i've just mentioned our outstanding um and we've also um got additional resource provisions um in in some of our primary schools so i don't think there is there is an issue about um sufficiency um but there are all like building and they will come is what i always say if we if we had more we would we know we would really have no doubt about that thanks candy that's good to hear um we approach uh nine o'clock so if we can move on to our final substantive item um just would like to thank everyone here really for what i think has been really uh uh
Summary
This was the last meeting of the municipal year for the Children's Services Scrutiny Committee. It was also its last meeting as the Children's Services Scrutiny Committee. It will be replaced by the Children and Young People Scrutiny Committee, which will have a broader remit, including children's health and well-being.
The committee welcomed its three new co-opted members: Sophie McNeill, Susie Graves and Nick Turpin.
The committee discussed three reports.
School Results 2023
The committee discussed the Educational Attainment and other Outcomes in 2023 report.
Officers described the challenging context in which Islington schools operate. They highlighted that Islington has the second highest population density in the UK. It also has the highest proportion of pupils with special educational needs (SEN) attending mainstream schools in England. Islington also has the highest proportion of pupils eligible for free school meals (FSM) attending mainstream schools in England.
Against this challenging background, there was much to be positive about. When compared to the national average, Islington schools performed well across almost all key stages. The challenge was how to improve so that results were above the Inner London average.
Officers noted that the range of attainment across schools was quite wide. This was something that needed to be addressed, particularly by sharing best practice from high-performing schools with those who were struggling.
Members raised a number of specific points about the report, including:
- Gifted pupils: There was a concern that gifted pupils were not achieving as well as they should. At Key Stage 1, the proportion of pupils achieving at greater depth was above the Inner London average, but at Key Stage 2, it was below. Officers stated that these were two different cohorts of pupils, and that it was expected that the current Key Stage 1 cohort would also excel in their Key Stage 2 results. They also stated that the ambition was for Islington to outperform Inner London at all key stages.
- Attendance: Attendance was a significant concern. The absence rate in primary schools has increased from 11% to 21%, and the persistent absence rate in secondary schools has increased to 27.2%. These figures are significantly higher than both the national and Inner London averages. Officers acknowledged that attendance was a
stubborn issue
and outlined a number of measures that were being taken to address it. These included the creation of a pastoral deputy network to share best practice between schools, and the development of inclusion hubs where schools could come together to share ideas and challenges. A number of practical interventions were also being considered, including the appointment of attendance mentors and the introduction of attendance awareness courses for parents. - Elective home education: The number of pupils being electively home educated (EHE) has increased to over 300. This is the highest number ever recorded in Islington. The increase in EHE has put a strain on the local authority's finances, as schools receive funding based on the number of pupils they have on roll. Members were concerned that the local authority was not doing enough to encourage EHE families to return to mainstream education. Officers stated that they were working with EHE families to provide support and guidance, but that they also respected parental choice.
- The Education Board: Members were concerned that the Education Board was not responding to the issue of attendance with sufficient urgency. They felt that the Board should be treating attendance as an
emergency.
Officers stated that the Board was evolving and that they were working to make it more collaborative.
Scrutiny Review of SEND & Disabilities Transitions - 12 Month Update (including update on Baseline Report for Supported Internships)
The committee received a report on the progress made against the recommendations of its Scrutiny Review of SEN & Disabilities Transitions, which was carried out in 2020/21.
Officers highlighted the fact that the number of children with education, health and care plans (EHCPs) in Islington has increased by 35% in the three years since the review was carried out. This increase in demand, coupled with a challenging financial context, has made it difficult to fully implement all of the review's recommendations.
Despite these challenges, officers were able to report that good progress had been made in a number of areas. These included:
- Communication: The council has developed a number of resources to help parents navigate the SEND system, including a new leaflet and web page explaining the EHCP process. A central point of contact has also been established for families to help co-ordinate their interactions with the council and its partners.
- Transition from early years to primary school: A new ‘transitions toolkit’ has been created to provide guidance to early years settings on what information should be provided to primary schools when a child with SEND is about to start school. A multi-disciplinary early identification working group has also been established to identify children who may need additional support at transition.
- Transition from primary school to secondary school: A new ‘transitions toolkit’ has also been created for children moving from primary to secondary school. The council has also developed a ‘transition good practice’ guide, which sets out expectations for schools in terms of the support they should provide to children with SEND during transition.
- Transition from secondary school to education, employment, training opportunities and adult services: A ‘progression to adulthood’ plan is in place, which sets out a long-term vision for the progression of young people with SEND into adulthood. A multi-agency preparation for adulthood protocol has also been refreshed.
A number of challenges remain, however. These include:
- Funding: The council is facing significant financial pressures, which are impacting on its ability to provide the level of support that is needed for children with SEND.
- Capacity: There is a shortage of specialist staff, particularly educational psychologists and therapists.
- Parental engagement: Some parents are finding it difficult to engage with the SEND system. This is particularly true for parents for whom English is not their first language.
The Children’s Workforce – Draft Recommendations
The committee considered the draft recommendations of its scrutiny review into The Children's Workforce.
The review focused on the recruitment, retention and well-being of social workers in Islington. It found that, while Islington is performing better than many other local authorities in these areas, there are a number of challenges that need to be addressed.
The review’s recommendations included:
- Reviewing pay and benefits: Islington Council should review its pay and benefits package for social workers to ensure that it is competitive with other local authorities and with the private sector.
- Improving working conditions: Islington Council should improve working conditions for social workers, such as by reducing caseloads and providing more support and supervision.
- Promoting flexible working: Islington Council should promote flexible working arrangements for social workers, such as by offering compressed hours and home working.
- Addressing the housing crisis: Islington Council should take steps to address the housing crisis in the borough, which is making it difficult for social workers to find affordable accommodation. This was particularly pertinent given that the council was withdrawing its key worker housing scheme for newly qualified social workers.
The committee agreed the draft recommendations. However, it requested that the recommendation on housing be directed to planning officers as well as housing officers. Members also commented that the council may need to be more “bold” in its thinking when responding to the recommendations on recruitment, retention and well-being.
This was the last meeting of the Children's Services Scrutiny Committee. It was replaced in the following municipal year by the Children and Young People Scrutiny Committee.
Attendees
- Claire Zammit
- Ernestas Jegorovas-Armstrong
- Fin Craig
- Paul Convery
- Rosaline Ogunro
- Saiqa Pandor
- Sheila Chapman
- Toby North
- Valerie Bossman-Quarshie
- Mary Clement
- Nick Turpin
- Sophie McNeill
- Susie Graves
- Theo McLean
Documents
- Agenda frontsheet 29th-Apr-2024 19.00 Childrens Services Scrutiny Committee agenda
- Minutes 26022024 Childrens Services Scrutiny Committee
- Scrutiny PP April
- Scrutiny Report SEND Transitions Feb 24 V2 002
- Second Despatch 29th-Apr-2024 19.00 Childrens Services Scrutiny Committee
- Draft Recommendations V3
- Public reports pack 29th-Apr-2024 19.00 Childrens Services Scrutiny Committee reports pack
- Printed minutes 29th-Apr-2024 19.00 Childrens Services Scrutiny Committee minutes