Housing Scrutiny Committee - Monday, 13th May, 2024 7.30 pm
May 13, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You You Good evening everyone. Welcome to The last meeting of the House and Scrutting the Committee for this Miserable year, 2023, 24. I'm Councillor Jason Jackson. I'm the chair of this committee and I'll be chairing tonight's meeting as well. Please note that we're not expecting a fire alarm test this evening. So if the alarm does go off, please do, if I could be building and do follow my instructions. This meeting is being broadcast live in the council website. Please do turn your microphone on whenever you speak in and remember to turn it off when you have finished. To make sure that we can hear clearly in the room, please speak clearly and directly into your microphone. I would start by asking my fellow members of the committee starting from my right to introduce themselves. Councillor CACHA and colour owner Vice Chair. Councillor VALERIE BOSSMAN CRASHING by Hillward. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor BORGINN-WARD. Councillor BORGINN-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor CACHA. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillor MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Councillors MIKILGAN TOLENTON-WARD. Thank you. We have apologies from Councillor GRAN and also apologies from Russell Mary McDonald, best resident observer in the meeting. Do we have a substitute for that? Okay, great. Just to ask the committee, do we, anyone have a declaration of interest to make? Oh, great. Thank you. Previous meeting minutes. Stay. We are happy to adopt that. Oh, is there any questions? No. Okay, great. Let's do that. Thank you. In terms of the CHES report, I don't have anything as we've just, I think we've met two weeks ago. The only thing has been around making sure we get the recommendation carried out as the committee members requested. So with that, I would like to go straight into that agenda point, which is the main screen review for this year. We have the final report and the recommendations. So I would like to ask the officer to just go through that with us briefly, just five minutes. I'm sure members of that time to really go through this and then we can just deliberate or if there's any amendments or anything we need to do to that. Thank you. And which, who's going to do that for us? Steve, please. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good evening chair. We have submitted the revised recommendations to the panel following our meeting on the 30th of April. I don't think bathroom suggested wording for item seven, where Councillor JOGARA of Armstrong was going to suggest some wording around the net zero carbon item. Right. Thank you. Councillor, do you just want to elaborate what your changes that you wanted to make? Yes. Thank you chair. So it's regarding recommendation number seven, which is very sound. It talks about energy conservation, but I think it doesn't explicitly mention low energy. And in fact, in industry, there's a lot of discussion about zero energy hopes. And I think we should be quite visionary in terms of what we can achieve. But I know that we base our recommendations on evidence. So based on evidence provided in the second dispatch on page seven, item 3.20 talks about how we already building homes, which meet the passive house standards. So my recommendation of an amendment to recommendation seven is to include the words that we should try to build as close to passive house standards as possible, or even at. So that's the suggestion. There's a member of committee have different wording or object to that. I don't see anything wrong with that. I'm sorry. I can't do that. Should have listened to that. Do you have any objection to that? No. Okay. Fine. I'm happy with that. Great. Is there any of our? You have another one. Right. Go for it. I do. And I brought this up two weeks ago as well, which again, it's just a point of clarity, I think. And transparent second accountability that the residents didn't deserve. And that's the recommendation number one on the first bullet point. There's a reference point made to the 750 homes, affordable homes that the council will be building. And again, I do believe that we should make recommendations based on evidence and for clarity. So from our evidence base from second dispatch point 3.20 says, isn't an has target to build 750 new council homes between 2023 and 2027. So what I'm suggesting is that for that first bullet point, we just include or add the timeframe of 2023 to 2027 as is written in the evidence. Right. I'm happy for members to come into this. I had a look at that, and I'm of the opinion that based on some of the evidence that we have picked up here during this review. That to put such a timeline would be counter. I would say productive would not be in the spirit of having this recommendation carried out, cause there's a lot of work in time. I'm mindful that for us as a committee to really put that in might not really give us the desire outcome of what we want. Cause I know there's other pieces of what going on. And I think this recommendation feeds into part of that work. Rather than us having to set that because there are still other information that I expect us to have in the next couple of months about reviews or in the team. So to put that on might not help. We don't want nothing to be rushed with one thing to be done properly. That's my opinion, but I'm open to members. If members feel strongly around what a fellow member of the committee have recommended, I'm happy to hear that. Just let just see if other members want. Actually, you can go ahead. Thank you. So obviously that was literally written as an evidence base, but also in the homeless strategy, which we'll be discussing further on as an item as part of the action plan. Again, it actually very explicitly states that these ones will be built by 2027. So there's a cumulative evidence base that that is the goal. I think we just need to be explicit with the recommendations that we make. I'd like officers if for clarification on purpose, but I'll go with members. I mean, of course, I agree to tackle homelessness. We need to build more homes, but following what the members said last week and the situation they've been in for 10 years, I would be reluctant to for that for anyone else experience that. Obviously want these recommendations to be implemented as soon as possible so we can carry on so we can have a deadline. But I'm just, I think following last week's meeting, I'm really uncomfortable with if things aren't sorted out in the new bill department, then it's likely that's going to continue to happen. I think just to please go ahead first and then I would. I'm wondering impression that the 750 new homes for social rent include completing current schemes with properties for social rent. I don't see any reason to change this recommendation to have here, except maybe a slight wording change so that it's mentioned that does include the current schemes for social rent. Yeah, I agree, I agree with you there. I think just to clarify what. Can see your verse Armstrong is requesting is a specific timeline to that. And again, in the spirit of what's happening, I think that would not be. And I think that's what the other members are saying as well. But I noticed offices were trying to do you want to, yes, please can you clarify, maybe technical. Thank you. Good evening everybody. So I guess to to thoughts to frame your recommendations, one, you're already executive report in March, which is our current statement. And I guess two things that were reflecting that the commitment is as far as possible to start. But as you'll see from that report, the Council does not have access to sufficient funds at the moment to deliver all of those homes at the moment. So I guess you might want to reflect that at the moment, we cannot guarantee that given the timing issues and the original commitment was to start in that time period. But that was in a world where we had to go for more funding. So maybe those contextual issues might be worth thinking about in terms of framing your recommendations. Thank you. Council work. Thank you. Just to add briefly to that, the best kind of council homes, the ones that our residents need are ones that are finished and allocated. And so I think putting in timelines rather than, you know, I think this committee's done a great job in reflecting what the issues are in the new built team and how we address those issues. I'm not, as the chair says, I think putting in timelines is kind of reflective. You are speaking as, I'm speaking as the homes and neighbourhoods on Thursday. So considering this will be with me, I'd just like to say where it is in the homeless, I will take that out because I will do my best. I'm not, you know, who ties to something, even scrutiny recommendations. It's, it's, you try to reach it. So what I'm saying is I will do whatever I can, but the homeless bit, I can take that out of the hundred strategy. I'll let you come in first because quite a few things were saying that I think this is a very healthy deliberation, as they can guys. I do take a councilor or someone's point about mentioning that it should include the completed buildings. But also, I think along that we can mention that it should be reframed as those in the intention to start 750. So to start and including those which have been completed. Okay. Right. So are you first, let me just get this. You, you are, you are more inclined not to have that 20, 27 day out. Is that what you're saying? My understanding is that these recommendations will go to the executive member to come back and respond. So I think sticking to promises that be made to the public and different evidence basis that we have in documents in the council, we should stick to that. But if there has been a policy change in the council, I think that needs to be communicated more widely to the public. So if no one here wants to stick or mention the 20, 27 date, I think that needs to be communicated to the public border. But I think I do take very sound suggestions of, as the point 320 mentions that it does include Thinsbury, Leisure Centre and Wally Road, which have been these 200 new homes. So we should mention about those which have been started and completed, but also the fact that it's the start of 750. Okay. Thank you. I'll take one and we'll come to sounds like we might have a bit of vote, but Councillor on question. Thanks, Chair. And these are really good points. I'm Councillor and I start, but I just kind of want to just, I guess, go back a step and just, I guess to emphasise that this is housing and not planning. So just to kind of make sure that we're sort of containing what they're doing over there, that it coincides with what our ambition is, that we shouldn't get mixed up in terms of our commitment, if that makes sense. Because we know from the previous meeting, the minutes did talk about, you know, the market and how it affects things like building and things like that. So the manifesto page is still there and we have the right to have those targets, but I guess if the market does change, then maybe the wording could maybe include that part, but this is housing and not planning. So just want to kind of get stressed that point. Otherwise, the point might not be expressed, I guess. Thanks. Thank you. I think I personally believe that a recommendation that we have on papers were awarded and it's in line with the evidence that we've captured. I'm more reluctant to go with their recommended change. But that's not for me. It's for us as a community to decide. So I'm happy to even take a vote. If we really, because I can hear two stands on this, there has been a recommendation made there. If we would like that to be adopted, I'm happy for us to do that collectively. However, my chair and based on the evidence that I've heard around this, I think that the wording that we have on paper here and bearing mind, we've had a couple of weeks to go through this, that we stick it to what it is now. And also, we've heard some quite real facts that I think I really don't want this to be political. And I don't, because I think in the spirit of what we've done over the year, we really want to see new homes bill. We want to, in fact, if they can be built much faster, we fall better. But at the same time, we understand the constraints that are there. And we know there's a lot of work to be done around the team around this. And I don't want to put anything that would jeopardize the spirit of this piece of work that we worked on. So, how do members think about this? Do we keep it as it? Do you want to please consider? [BLANKAUDIO] You happy with that? As mentioned, I think there's currently three proposals, essentially a table. One, which includes a date. One, which includes the idea that this 750 target represents the starting. And that's the last one, which I counseled on just mentioned about it, including completed homes. So, when you talked about keeping the words the same, I'm just trying to be very clear. Are we ruling all these out? Are we accepting parts of the suggested changes? I think it's the date. This is the main part that I'm sort of trying to say in the spirit of what we have here, not for us as a community. Again, community members can say you can overrule that. That's a collective because I'm happy to call a vote on it. And we can do that. But if not, I would say just on that date part, that's the part that I'm sort of slightly disagreeing with a fellow community. Member here on this. Just a point of clarity on, because if it does go to a vote, we are fully committed on building 750 homes, but we're not, but we're not going to say by 2027, because it's going to be realistic here. That's exactly my position. If we do not have a date to finish these 750 homes, we're just kicking the can down the road. You need to have a final date of when you're going to have these 750 homes finished. Otherwise, if you don't do it, they'll say next year, next year, next year. You can have a specific date of start and finish on any build and then any man of those. I believe in this community and the different strains that is available to keep an eye on this to be in effect. I think what we've done here is really unveiled some level of work that needs to be done in this space. I know that. And I trust this committee to be really much keeping an eye on all the other committees as well and what happens next. One's just been made quite clear about the financial position and I think we have to be quite realistic on that. And hence why I think I don't, if I can't, this is one of the topics when it comes to housing, I really don't want to hear no politics on it. I just want it done and it done well. And if it means we had to have an extra one year and we build a thousand home, I'm much happier than that. That's how I feel about this. And I agree with you. If there was to be anything that gives us the impression that that is being done, then I think the committee is in the rightful place to really do and let them know publicly as much as possible. But it does seem that you're waiting on time and you think there's going to be a magic wand and we're going to get loans and everything's going to go down in price and there's land going to appear and things like that. It's not going to be like that. Building is getting more and more expensive and it's not going down. It's going to continue to get more expensive. So there's no magic wand after next year or the year after that all the prices are going to fall. They're not. They're increasing. And you know what, I actually agree with you as well. I'm going to let Chancellor Chunkona speak and then. And then I think I might actually call about on this. Dean, I agree with you. There may not be a magic wand, but we also have to be very realistic. We have to look at what we've got right now and how we can achieve with what we've got. By given a date, we if we can't meet that day, then we would have failed. But if we say it is our intention and with the resources that we have right now and the money that we have now, because we are being realistic, we don't have the funds. We're not going to have bigger spaces, but we can look and this is the time for us to all look at what we have and work on what we have. Ideally, yes, 750 homes, batteries are played. We will deliver. I think we could maybe come back to this in six months and see how we've got on and then maybe then make a recommendation of a date. But just give us some time so we can look at what we've got. We've made this recommendation, which is really good. We've got offices on board. We've got a chair that will not let this go and we've got members that won't let this go. So just give us some time and let's see what we can do just six months and then we can come back to it. I don't know if you agree to that chair or not. Well spoken by Chair. Councillor, go ahead. Yeah, just one of the items that was mentioned in this is improving on tents, sort of a consultation, sort of participation. I'm taking this as a different number. This is further afield. This is a cover down on the pace, because there's something else I would mention about 2.6 and 2.7. Sure, please tell me to mention that. I think regarding the pilot schemes on rooftop development, I mean, I feel that became a slight issue. There was going to be a proposal to plan on it. I think it's being dropped at the moment. On Blenheim in Toronto board housing development on top of existing flats and I must admit it's not popular with the residents. I personally don't, I'm not in favour of rooftop developments on old housing estates built in the 60s and 70s. I don't think it's, I have to be convinced about it. That's one item, but apart from that, I think everything is fine. There is something I would like to clarify that we've seen a local press this week on Parkview and the meeting we had previously where the tenants group came down. I think we have to improve on our residents' intense participation. They've got to be involved right from the process. They feel kind of isolated at times. That's got to improve. Yes, I totally agree, especially on your last point. I think I would really be surprised that both offices and the whole Council are not an awful alert on that working. So I, again, for us as a community, that's a lot of things for us to keep an eye on and keep feeding into that. Now, I'm inclined to move ahead because of time. I, the first point was the point that was made around the timeline. Do you remember this would have put a timeline in? If not, how many members would like to put a timeline in? Sure. Thank you. Just so I know what we're doing. We're going through a bit, but it wouldn't. No, just the part that I felt like it was slightly contested. I think there is a general welcome to the recommendation. This is just the final details of it. And one of that was the timeline. And I was just calling a vote on that. Who are those that would like to have a timeline on that? And I think I saw two hands. Who are those that are happy with the wording as it is at a woman? You have to show your hands because I'm taking a vote now. Those that are happy to keep the wording as it is on the time without the timeline. If you can just raise your hand. You're unhappy with adding the timeline. So that's that's exactly the question I'm asking. Is that please can members raise your hand for that or not? Okay, that's correct. Yes, that was noted. Can you just read that exact wording again, please? And just quote the number as well. Sorry, appropriate officer resources are available to deliver the council's target of delivering 750 new homes, including completing current schemes on site by being mindful of the financial constraints with the HLRA. So the key word is including. Okay, any members object to that? I think that sounds good to me. Okay, we are happy with that. Great, thank you. Is there any other part of this recommendation that members wants to sort of amend? Yes, I probably know which one you're going for the girlfriend. There was a third change that was mentioned, which was on the same point, and instead of having the word delivery to have the word starting because the actual ambition here so it would read as appropriate officer resources are able to deliver the council's target of starting 750 new and what other councilor or servant made this his amendment. So we can say started and delivered. Right. I think what's because loads of them admit a point there, but it started you on. I think if we're not putting a date which we're not, then we don't need to say we've had started so wouldn't be accurate to say we've started. So I think we should leave it as it is in order for it to be accurate. I'm going to have to seek advice on the wording on this one. Okay, do you care to just elaborate, it is correct that we have started, right? What we have done, we're committed to is that we have the council objective is to start 750 new homes. What we have is the schemes that councilors have mentioned. That we've mentioned that we've mentioned that contribute to our pipeline to meet the 750 they are the ones where we have committed to starting those on side by 2027 to be able to start and complete those within the timeframe would probably be too challenging. That's just the timeframe, that's just by some of the financial pressures that we're under. Okay, thank you. So I guess let me just ask a question directly. Is that what the member of the community has just raised? Have we started or we have it started because we're just trying to clarify the word so that we know we're correct and go ahead with that. Does anyone want to come in on that, please? Happy to chair. So just a maybe to step back, just so just a risk here and then cancel something to your question. So the 750 is new. So we all the schemes that are currently live don't count to the 750. The 750 starts again, starts with the four schemes that we talked about in the executive paper. So Pinchry Leisure Centre, south bemerton, Volley Road and Harvest, where at the moment all of this is subject to feasibility. But at the moment we have enough money to complete those schemes. And 27 might be tough, but we will certainly move those forward. Every other scheme at the moment we only have funding to take them forward to planning. So we do not have any funding to start those schemes at the moment. So I think going back to the chair in the committee's review, I guess my advice would be that I think sticking broadly to the language you've got would be the realistic summary where we are today. If that helps. Okay, thank you. I think we're going wrong. So what I'm going to do now is without any further amendment to how this particular number and recommendation is this one, the first one. Are we happy to accept it based on the recommended amendment? Because we're sort of an added and knowing there's been two contested one from Councillor. I'm sure he raised one and there's raised a second one. Do we want to take any of the recommendation that he has made to be added to this? Yes, no. And the festival to be agreed as it is. We can't say we start in 2027 if the ones that already gone for planning will be complete by then. So I'm not comfortable with saying something that is not going to be reflected. Okay, so in that case, we're going to keep it as it is then, right? We're happy to keep it the way it is. So can we take a vote on that? I'm really mindful of time to move ahead. And that's this vote is for everything in that session. Everything in that number one and not we're not coming back to it. And we're happy to take a vote on this. We have to keep it as it is, including the one recommendation that was adopted. Including the one that was just a word including. So are we dropping the Councillor Armstrong? Yes. Okay. Can we just vote on this because I'm really happy to sort of move ahead with this? Are we happy to take it with the one word change by Councillor Mika Sullivan around including? And then we can move to the next one. Are we happy? Can we say yes? Yes. Raise your hands. That would be great. Thank you. Great. This is supposedly quite easy. Right. Are there any of the part of the recommendations that any other part of this recommendation that members would like to raise anything at all? Because if not, it sure comes with clarity or you are changed. Just to make a memory, if I may, Chair, I think it's from the person sent to trauma informed holistic on page. Please, can we have the number? The number. The recommendation. It's a normal pool. Sorry, make a part in. Right. Okay. Your excuse. Right. With that. Any other? Okay. We didn't say we all accept an egregious recommendations. If you agree to a recommendation, please raise your hands. Great. Thank you so much. I just want to take a moment to say this has been a quite. Difficult work for us to do because it does. I mean, we're talking about housing and whenever we're talking about housing, we're talking about residents. And I just want to appreciate all the committee members. The way you've gone about scrutinizing this topic, the way you've dealt with the residents that have attended this topic level of empathy. I also have to work around. I'm sure I'm sure as well that we've gone beyond any sort of line to kind of get this the way is. I would really ask members of the committee to carry on keeping an eye on this topic. But for now, and I want to thank the officers. I know it's been quite difficult and the exec member as well. Kind of just navigate when there are other pieces of work going on that also having to accommodate the community having to be an extra eye to those partners going on. So I just want to say thank you for that. And in the spirit of oneness and making sure we deliver, we really hope that you do take our recommendations seriously and we look forward to feedbacks on this. Thank you so much. And please. Yeah, thank you. Thank you committee for that. It's been challenging because we're all passionate about it. And I think you've got an excellent set of recommendations and we very much look forward to being scrutinized and challenged moving forward. But thank you for the recommendations. Can I just mention something of concern. I mean, we had the new bill, the meeting on the new bill, the 30th. And I don't know how many people were in attendance and how many members, but it was a busy period with the middle of the middle election. And I'm concerned it was during that period of time. We had the meeting on new build. Please. Yeah, just on your first question that you brought up a bit earlier about resident engagement to the new build. I will be in charge of this and anybody that doesn't get satisfied with what's going on with new build on the states. If my word, I'll go down there and talk to the residents. We've got to do better. You know, listening to those testimonies, you know, engagement and resident engagement is going to be really key. And any meetings you want about new build or further things, because the election is happy to meet your offline. Okay. Just one final point here. And we do now have a new new built engagement team. We're very, very proud of going forward. There's lots more we can do. And just to say, yes, I did agree with you that there was quite a lot of meetings. This was just, there are certain areas of this that sort of moves away from this committee, but we had to kind of accommodate them as well to be a part. I'm going to just come to you on that. Please go. Just a point of clarification. My understanding is that new build sits under Council Awards. I was going to say to you that as far as I know, I'm not too sure where Council would then assume that she's taking this. So that's all news to me, but I'm sure I will get clarification after this meeting. Thank you. You can get clarification. I'm with that. I'm happy to move ahead with this agenda. Thank you so much, everyone. Next one was. Yeah. Yes, please. Very high level. Anything's changed since the last time. Yep, just 30 seconds of your time. We've got three providers that are now rolling out tremendous amounts of fiber broadband to residents. Also in the last stages of the negotiations with BT open reach who have advised us that the terms have been agreed with the process. And this will now involve them presenting to the executive of open reach. And that they're currently compiling the commercials for this slide desk for approval. As you can see from the report, we've now we started behind other councils. It's fair to say we're now catching up to those councils and we believe with G network community fiber. Hypropics and potentially the BT open reach will achieve our target that we set ourselves in the past, which is good news. Thank you. That's, I mean, this has been, we've been getting this update. Does anyone have any questions? I mean, I think we constantly trying to make sure that we can get them to get it done faster. You're up for us. I'm sure. Thank you. Just a little character and again, I might have missed this. But in a previous meeting, there was a suggestion that your office chair would write a letter to the companies to urge them. I think any insight how, how well it was received has any communication been received back from the companies. And I also would like to find out a bit more about the IMX social tariffs, which I think are really, really important. And I think the more that we can expound in that would be really good. In terms of the letter, just several letters gone from under my instruction to them. But I'll let Ian come in so they can answer the both of their questions. Thank you, Chair. I can confirm that the chair did write the letters to the providers. That was successful. As you can see, we've now accelerated the program of delivery, which is positive. And beating up and reaching a virtue of the state now of the Greens provide fiber broadband. You are right. We can provide that data for you in terms of IMX. We are promoting the cheap access to broadband to all of our residents. We can certainly provide that data to you in the following meeting. At the six months time, just for six months of date, we can certainly provide that. I can update you outside of the meeting on that as well. Thank you. Just again, I'll let you follow up on that and then I'll come to you. I'm just sort of concerned about safeguarding. So are there any safeguarding policies in place in terms of how this social tariff is shared? Yep, so complete safeguarding. We're complying with all the data intelligence as well as safeguarding our residents. We can confirm that's taking place. So there's a question I always ask when this broadband thing comes up. The patchwork quilt with the streets and the roads and things like that. You know, six months time and a year's time or whatever, when they've dug their holes and replaced it and it's all buckled and all that. Are they going to come back and fix it and not be a bill to these in council? And are they insured for trips, falls and slips? So during the construction period at the hour, the chair has sent a letter to the providers to insist that they return the grassed areas, the pavements, the roads, et cetera to the standard that they were before they started. And we monitor this on a regular basis with officers going out on the site. And we meet with all of these providers on a regular basis on a monthly basis. The question was in the future, not when they've just done it, because the roads move, things move. So it's not just when they've finished a job, it's six months to a year's time when the roads start to buckle. I mean, they've got a long-term interest in Islington clearly, so we're going to hold them to account for the life of that work. So we can certainly share that contract with you and you can have a look at it when it does help the safeguards to the council. Whether we don't want to provide future funding to services that we don't need to provide. Yes, I think at some point, depending on what happened in the next minutes period, I think it would be nice for the committee that the contract part of it. That's monetary. I think that's a good, very good observation there to see if we're not, we should be preparing ahead. But I'm not too sure how much influence we might have in terms of the signed contracts of the month, but I would be interesting to see what that looks like. Thank you. If there are no other questions on this, I'm happy to say thank you in consistently bringing this and doing the piece of work again. Whatever your team needs to do to keep letting them know that we are constantly. In fact, we would maybe in the next some point, depending on whether chairs or committee decide they could maybe even ask them to come in and give us a little bit, a little bit more insight from their own point of view, just one. So if that conversation can start now, I think that would be welcome. Okay, great. And with that, I'll move to the next agenda points. And right. In issue again, but first of all, I want to say thank you so much for bringing this, and I know this is something that. I know it's a very early stage, and I'm sure we can start feeding into this, but I'm not sure there's going to be other time for us to carry on feeding into this. This is very early. So bearing in time, I would like to just give us a little overview of this piece of work here, and then we can then probably start that conversation of what we can feel in bed. Please bear in mind, we've got opportunities outside of this just just to bring America, please. Thank you, chair. So you're right. The vice chair critically praised us in the past in terms of presenting documents after it's been out of consultation and requested that they have presented before they got consultation. So this is the very first document that anybody's seen. It hasn't gone to the political leadership manager and the Council of Halodam. It hasn't gone to the chief execs management team. It's gone to here first as requested. So you now have the ability to shape design, the homelessness and prevention of sleeping strategy. By law, we have to have one of these in place. It isn't one of these things that it's a nice thing to have by law. We have to. We've got some key elements of admission statements of eliminating rust sleeping and ending homelessness. Clearly, we're doing quite well on rust sleeping. One of the lowest in central London, if not the lowest, certainly significantly lower than our neighboring councils. And clearly, we don't want to have people living in temporary accommodation. And when they do, they're in temporary accommodation for the shortest possible period of time and of the highest quality temporary accommodation as local to Islington as possible as what members have constantly requested. As you are a worse in September, we have purchased 168 extra to buy properties. That's roughly five a week that we're buying every week to return into temporary accommodation, which we're rather proud of. We desperately want to ensure that everything contained in this document has your critical appraisal. So you have got many times to critically comment on this as the housing scrutiny, but also as individual members will be sending this to all of the elected members across all of the political parties in Islington for comments. But as I say, this is now your opportunity to say, we think something should be in here that isn't in or there's something in here that needs to be out, because you are going to be the coal pilots. We're going to produce this in partnership with you. There'll be coal production and coal designed in partnership with the housing scrutiny committee as you requested a previous meeting. Thank you. With that, I'm happy to maybe open up some members who knows might not be here in the next committees or not to probably say one or two words. And if not, I'm also happy for us to take this as a body of work that we're going to be evolving over a long period of time. We're going to have further conversation and how that fits into our genders or when they do in future. I'll start with Councillor Anderson. Thank you. Just a few brief points. The holistic approach and trauma informed practice sounds really promising. And I know historically that hasn't been the culture of the Council, especially with homelessness. So I think my point would just be how to measure that. That would be quite difficult to measure how well the Council is doing. But I think it would be great for this committee to see how that is measured, particularly with the first point of contact. Because from my experience is that that's the most difficult when someone is homeless, that first point of contact can be quite stressful with whoever's on the emergency line. So that resident experience will be helpful. And just secondly, on the young people living care, I think it's honestly such a great initiative to have 20 X right to buy poverty specifically for young people even care. I think that is really inspirational. This might fall under children's, but I would want to extend that to those under special guardianships when they turn 18 and are a threat to homeless. Because they do experience a very similar situation. And unfortunately, they don't have the same care package that care leaders have. So I would want that to be at least explored. So those who under special guardianship turn 18 and finding themselves homeless, but they'd be entitled to the same level of priority. And just lastly, sorry one second. Do you want to bring that to the next meeting? I'm not here for the next meeting. I'll leave it there. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Chair, and actually, I guess supplementary to Council Gilchins point, which was, I know we put eight into 25, but to try and factor into 27 with specific. I was upset to characteristics. If it can be looked into a sort of deep diet because linking back to children's and what they do over there and seeing all the sort of like, I guess, I would say the hidden. Complexity zero when you're in that particular demographic, there's quite a lot on pick, especially if you've been also through domestic violence, just looking at that specifics. And then just, I guess this goes back to the council and this is point earlier about when we put dates and times in. And because we put in specific finding that we are receiving, just be mindful about the language that we use because what I'd like to see personally is possibly, and it's just not. I guess the semantics per se, but it's about how do we then talk about the ring fencing. So if we're saying money will be ending from a specific, you know, GLA, whatever it is, what are we looking at as a council in terms of continuing that, that good practice, and that good working. It's about the culture, and also just to put on record, Ian, that you are definitely 100% immense. And I've seen how much you've taken on board. And it means, it means, you can google it later. You can google it later. But I think, and under obviously chair and vice chairs leadership, it's been amazing to see that this is coming to fruition. And just to add one more point is that, which is really one more point is the gypsy traveler and rainbow community. How do we bring that also into this? Because I know the previous committee did speak about this, and again about those protective characteristics. Let's not forget that particular group. Thank you so much. As long as you find your last point, and then I'll come to you because of the good. It was just under the temporal accommodation, private sector as well. Just in terms of threat of homelessness, it was specific to those who have disabilities and are in the private rented sector and finding themselves homeless. What the wraparound support is for that, many times they are all in private rented, that aren't adapted and also suited to their needs. So how does the council kind of prioritise them? Thank you. I'm encouraged by this because I think it's something we can work for. It's got about a drug and alcohol rehabilitation. It's got people's relationships and find themselves on the streets. I think we've got to really put out there the message that it's a cross-section of society. There is a kind of a stereotype out there that we need to challenge. There are people on drugs and alcohol as we know, and they can be helped. But there's also people who are self-asleeping who really are homeless. I think it's a challenge that we're going for. I would like to know the outreach side of it all. I think we probably could strengthen it by having more outreach work. I know some of it's voluntary sector I believe, but I'd like to know more. Because I think to implement this, that's what we need. We need people on the front lines working on it. Thank you, I'm Councillor SON. Welcome this report, it's excellent. There's just two things. Homelessness is an London-wide, not a national-wide issue. No one borrow can solve it. We can do our best, but we could end up with a situation which did happen in the past in London, where we were quite good at solving our homelessness problem, like dealing with the homelessness. Westminster Council began to give their homelessness. And both take it, to come up to Eastlington, whenever they presented themselves as homeless. I just wondered how do we need to advocate for a London-wide approach to this? You know, it's great to hear about the cross-boundary cooperation for six boroughs, but I think it should really go for all 32 boroughs in order for a dent to be made in this problem at the very least. And the other thing is, we're losing social housing associations, social housing to rent. Many of these properties were gifted to these organisations at a peppercorn value by the Council. And we're losing nominations today, so this is all across London. I think we need to do stop housing associations, sell-and-off properties in areas of most housing need, and campaign with that with the Mayor. I'm probably with some of the senior politicians as well, because this is at its grace. Thank you. I think I'm picking up that the committee is really looking forward to jumping on this, and I hope you've already got quite a few there. If I have to add one more, I really would like us to really look more into around black men in the space. There is a tendency that nobody really, yeah. So I think there's a lot of work, some lived experience around this that needs to be looked at going forward. I'm super excited about this, and I'm sure, like I said, I let the committee just keep feeding into this. I'm happy to take Dean, and then I'm going to go ahead. I live in the end of the estate, and I know you do a fantastic job with the owners. You've heard it has a few people I know who are homeless. It's absolutely fantastic. I've got nothing against it and all this. But to condense, you're saying that you've bought flats and houses and all that, like, to condense some of these habits that these homelessness got into certain areas, like I hope that you're doing a sporadic buying of properties in all of Islington, rather than just the poor areas, and then we're having to deal with more condense of people with drug and alcohol problems, rather than certain boroughs in London who you'd never see a homeless person be in there. I don't want to see a condense because I was standing at one yesterday full of the same type of people, homeless, alcoholics and junkies. I go to Finsbury Park, another poor area, same again. But you go to these rich areas or the high effluent areas. You don't see any places there for homeless people or anything like that. So I think, rather than condensing them into all the areas that are quite poor anyway, you spread them out a bit, and then some of these habits might sort die off, because if you're following the crowd following the sheet, you stick with the same problems. If you're condensed out and you're by yourself, you look for assistance and help in drug rehabilitation and drug rehabilitation. It's just a point. I think that's a feed, a feed to death. I don't really need an answer for that now. I think it's a generic feed. Councillor, you're over it, I'm sure. Thank you, Chair. Thank you to the report. I think it's brilliant. But I think the devil is in the detail, as always. So if I could draw your attention to action number 61, it says to recover 50 Council properties, subject to tenancy fraud and maximise recovery of unlawful profits. That sounds like a really great target. I'm just wondering why 50 Council homes? Like, where has that number arisen from and can that be probably worded better for any that come across? And then maybe a question for the executive member for action number 48. There's a timeframe by 2027. You said that you'll delete that. What is that going to be replaced by? It'll be replaced with the same wording that was agreed within the new build. We'll just lift it from that. We're in here and we'll replace that as was agreed on the previous matter. In terms of 0.6120 question, that's a challenging target to return 50. In the first quarter of this year, financial year would return date. So it will be challenging for us to achieve that. But it's important for us to do so. Thank you. Do you have any more for now? Okay. I'm not going to keep an eye on this one. Councillor Waller. Thanks, Chair. I guess it's supplementary to Council and Esther's point. And this is a thing where we put numbers to things that can be a bit challenging. So I'm just thinking when we look at, because we don't have the data to hand where we know of how many properties are actually empty. Maybe we should kind of maybe, I just don't think we should put a number. I just personally feel, because when we last spoke, we were talking about, do we know where the empty properties were? Do we have a team that can be allocated to the south and the north to get this? It's just something I think we should be mindful of. And I get the whole 50, because it's ambitious. But I guess I would caution not to put a number. And just, again, semantics, just try and word it a bit better, but not put a number, because then if we can get more, and if we can also work, maybe add the point of a team that will be allocated to. I'm just just, just. It's. We do have a team specific team for this. It's quite a large team. But obviously if members don't want to have. I think, I think it's a recommendation. I like the numbers for this particular topic. But then again, why 50 just ways to data that. So can we, that's a good point. So can we ask maybe a little bit information around data on this? What, what is this? What is sort of the targets in that team? And then that where we will know if this number is given is realistic to mistake or over Richard. Next time we come here, we'll do the data analytics to show you the background data, and then you can challenge us again. Thank you so much. Well, thank you so much, Tim. I think that's a good set of feedback at this early stage. I'm sure there's going to be more coming. And with that, I want to say thank you very much in. Yeah, you've always been here in this community. You've always stayed with us today, and you're going to do the same today as well. With that, I just want to say this is our last meeting for this municipal year. I really want to say thank you so much to everyone. Thank you to the clock as well. A lot has been super amazing making things well behind the scene. And yes, and we'll be back again next time for now. Thank you for everyone, and it's been really exciting to show you this year as well. Thank you. Thank you. [BLANKAUDIO]
Transcript
Transcription by CastingWords Good evening everyone. Welcome to the last meeting of the Housing Scrutiny Committee for this municipal year 2023-24. I'm Councillor Jason Jackson, the chair of this committee, and I'll be chairing tonight's meeting as well. Please note that we're not expecting a fire alarm test this evening, so if the alarm does go off, please do evacuate the building and do follow my instructions. This meeting is being broadcast live on the council website. Please do turn your microphone on whenever you're speaking, and remember to turn it off when you have finished. To make sure that we can be heard clearly in the room, please speak clearly and directly into your microphone. I would start by asking my fellow members of the committee, starting from my right, to introduce themselves. I'll ask the officers to be started. I'll ask the officers to be started. I'll ask the officers to be started. I'll ask the officers to be started. I'll ask the officers to be started. 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Summary
The Committee agreed an amended set of recommendations from its review of New Homes Build in Islington. It received a positive update on the rollout of fibre broadband across the borough, and discussed and provided feedback on the draft Homelessness Prevention and Rough Sleeping Strategy for 2024-2027.
New Homes Build in Islington
The Committee considered its final report and recommendations from its review of the New Homes Build programme in Islington, which had been discussed at a prior meeting.
There was extensive discussion on a proposed amendment to the first recommendation. The amendment suggested adding a timeframe of 2023-2027 to the recommendation that appropriate officer resources are available to deliver the council’s target of delivering 750 new homes.
Councillor Ernestas Jegorovas-Armstrong argued for the inclusion of the timeframe, because
obviously that was literally written as an evidence base, but also in the homeless strategy, which we'll be discussing further on as an item as part of the action plan. Again, it actually very explicitly states that these homes will be built by 2027.
Councillor Diarmaid Ward, the Executive Member for Housing and Development, countered that:
the best kind of council homes, the ones that our residents need are ones that are finished and allocated. And so I think putting in timelines, rather than, you know, I think this committee's done a great job in reflecting what the issues are in the new build team and how we address those issues. I'm not, as the chair says, I think putting in timelines is kind of reflective.
Councillor Ward also argued that the council's financial position was such that it could not guarantee that it would be able to start building 750 new council homes by 2027. He offered to remove the 2027 deadline from the council's Homelessness Strategy.
The Committee eventually voted to amend the recommendation to read: Appropriate officer resources are available to deliver the council’s target of delivering 750 new homes, including completing current schemes, while being mindful of the financial constraints with the HLRA
.1
Councillor Jegorovas-Armstrong proposed a further amendment to this recommendation, to change the word delivering
to starting
, on the basis that the council's ambition is to start 750 new homes
. The Committee did not adopt this amendment, but it agreed to a suggestion by Councillor O'Sullivan to change the wording to delivering 750 new homes, including completing current schemes
, in order to address concerns that the initial wording may have implied that the target of 750 did not include homes in schemes that had already been completed.
Councillor O'Sullivan also asked for clarity
on a recommendation that the council deliver a trauma informed holistic
approach to homelessness.
The Committee agreed to the rest of the recommendations in the report, and thanked the officers for their work on the review, noting that it had been challenging to scrutinise the New Homes Build programme because of the political sensitivities of the subject.
The Committee asked Councillor Ward to ensure that residents were more involved in the planning and delivery of new homes in the future. They cited in particular the experiences of residents on the Parkview Estate and the Hathersage Estate, who had attended the previous meeting to share their concerns about the lack of communication and disruption they had experienced as a result of the new build programme. Councillor Ward agreed to this, stating:
anybody that doesn't get satisfied with what's going on with new build on the states, if my word, I'll go down there and talk to the residents. We've got to do better. You know, listening to those testimonies, you know, engagement and resident engagement is going to be really key.
Islington Broadband
The Committee received an update from officers on the progress of the rollout of fibre broadband across Islington. Officers reported that the programme was gathering pace
, and that over 50 blocks had been cabled and were live, with over 10,000 council homes connected to Hyperoptic, over 4,360 connected to Community Fibre, and over 1,620 to G.Network. They added that free connections had now been installed at several community centres, including Sunnyside Community Center, the Chestnuts Community Centre, Highbury Grange, Hargrave Hall and Kings Square Community Centre.
Councillor Jegorovas-Armstrong asked for details on the uptake of the social tariffs that are available from the providers, and about any safeguarding policies in place to protect residents when they are being sold these tariffs. Officers said they would provide that information to the Committee.
Councillor Gilgunn asked for assurances that the providers would be required to return roads and pavements to the condition they were in before the installation work started, and that they would be responsible for any future repairs. Officers assured him that this was the case, and that the council was monitoring the quality of the work being done.
Homelessness and Rough Sleeping Strategy
The Committee discussed the draft Homelessness and Prevention of Sleeping Strategy for 2024-2027. They were informed by officers that this was the first time the document had been seen by anyone outside of the Housing Operations team, and that they would have many times to critically comment on this
.
Councillor Jegorovas-Armstrong welcomed the strategy's emphasis on a holistic approach and trauma informed practice
, but asked how this would be measured. She also suggested that the council should consider extending the provision of 20 new homes for care leavers to young people living under special guardianship arrangements. Councillor O'Sullivan raised similar concerns, suggesting that the strategy should take a deep dive
into the specific needs of young people, particularly those who had experienced domestic violence, and those from the gypsy, traveller and LGBTQ+ communities. She also asked how the strategy would address the needs of disabled people who are facing homelessness in the private rented sector.
Councillor Gilgunn welcomed the strategy's commitment to tackling rough sleeping and homelessness, but asked for more detail on the council's outreach work.
Councillor O'Sullivan raised concerns that Islington could become a magnet
for homeless people from other boroughs if it was seen to be successful in tackling the issue. He suggested that the council needed to advocate for a London-wide approach, and campaign to prevent housing associations from selling off properties in areas of high housing need.
Dean Donaghey, a co-optee on the Committee, asked whether the council was ensuring that its acquisition of properties to house homeless people was spread evenly across the borough, rather than concentrating them in poorer areas.
Councillor Jegorovas-Armstrong queried the target of recovering 50 council properties subject to tenancy fraud, asking why that number had been chosen and if it could be worded better
. Councillor O'Sullivan also questioned the feasibility of this target, noting that only eight properties had been recovered in the first quarter of the year. Councillor Ward said the number was based on the current performance of the council's fraud team, but that it would be challenging to achieve.
Councillor O'Sullivan queried the timeframe of 2027 given in the action plan for the delivery of 750 new genuinely affordable homes, reminding Councillor Ward that he had offered to remove that deadline from the council's homelessness strategy. Councillor Ward agreed to replace the timeframe with the same wording as in the new build recommendations.
Councillor Waller asked for more information about the council's team for tackling tenancy fraud, and whether a numerical target was appropriate. Officers agreed to provide data on the team's performance at the next meeting.
The Committee thanked the officers for presenting the draft strategy and action plan, and said they looked forward to providing further feedback in the future.
-
The Housing and Planning Act 2016 renamed the Housing Revenue Account subsidy system to the Housing Revenue Account Levy. ↩
Attendees
- Ernestas Jegorovas-Armstrong
- Gulcin Ozdemir
- Ilkay Cinko-Oner
- Jason Jackson
- Michael O'Sullivan
- Mick Gilgunn
- Phil Graham
- Valerie Bossman-Quarshie
- Dean Donaghey
- Rose Marie McDonald
Documents
- Agenda frontsheet 13th-May-2024 19.30 Housing Scrutiny Committee agenda
- Public reports pack 13th-May-2024 19.30 Housing Scrutiny Committee reports pack
- Minutes 30042024 Housing Scrutiny Committee
- Islington Broadband - May 2024 update
- Cover report for draft Homelessness prevention and rough sleeping strategy 2024
- Appendix 1 - Homelessness Prevention and Rough Sleeping Strategy
- Appendix 2 - Homelessness Prevention and Rough Sleeping Action Plan
- Second Agenda Despatch 13th-May-2024 19.30 Housing Scrutiny Committee agenda
- Final Report New Homes Build May 13 2024