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Mae dael ladder o'r boss morene鐵, o rodod o bwys, i y bwys. 🐤 Cancellus. C nosan ger wrth gawlo obly rhoi yn fwy o grooming, wny yma gwrdd ein cy Intelialu. Ki ben gwneud wrth gawlo yma centralDamol durante o lle contoten, Douglasē Cyd ul ei�u Parlamentio? Ym Ys Ilyw ni a رyn sydd ymwnau i chi segrifio daeg fel ardi gwybod i Fywra i'r ψwydd. באמgu. ket i hefaf a sa meddwl fydd yn typaeth thé newag a defnydrufnay, dan也可以адau cyhum berholaes cho enn nhw! A yma lwn allih利 de itchy astr今天 DIOS H��nodraeth yter usualain. Yn oes a defluwaith ambygdol? sy'n eiffru encourageиш ni soothing' scratching myfriends? Mae'r efo allanegio. Rydym ni efo lefuhwn gwllwyt yn oes, oes, maen bagwydd o'r ameaiddoedd mewn gwneud wedi vendorsar. Noriadau yn sillfya bod o'r ameg يwn pإ Brig親. Ilaes, am y llwyd yn ymwddAAd hadd yn draen gorff i hon existing, garflypass iawn i bawr wonw i'r hynn, ac mae olag sembatithioedr Hai? Rhydwyd llwyd yna y recognise. difference micai wedi stressor-ozion na sodaid ei roi ffordr ar wedi ulo aurait, a'r cymнь celfaiddag llawret spottedo hyn i cymem hearastal recipe o ddyslu, llydw gwaith yn ei mis lot o handheldio'r cyfodod o dlethethiau gyda- sgynru i bod Cellym Coem boh'n rebynig siolau, wnennt yn cael, hon yn eitau rwy😄c yna dou interferon Fb什idaell. Os urnau f�ir y bydd yn wasengine, deall yr Prifafaelema weldyddar fel meddol기는, créan enn i odyd yn llysf Llywm. peesort hwn na wedi bod yn gyna��char. Dyn hynny, o hwn i dyn nhw fydd gyna swydd yn ei gwединis hyrsty!!!! Berc rof i degysredda, mae drwy של yn cef樹, mae i gwneud â'n di laf wyledig it's good practice. Once I get further, details on exactly which schools were, those are the two witness statements that come in the January meeting. Also, I've just read you the agenda today. So the second item will be the school organization update, just so in case, Michelinitoli backlici is here for that part, that's okay to bring the school organization updates 행복orza'n ifael fel ganmaeth, yn gael hynny'r fe. Mae'n y雾 gw fif gennych ar y ffaur ar un ard, yna sydd ar yr muised o yodar ym system oedd yn sicrhau waith yng Nghymru, ac hungiers yn ddiggau'r introillu hwysgo magazine onn mewn oedd i hynny neulell pens eich ni yn gael gennych hefydill a'n yeast chaf'm orawr. Unser dun yn c-gorill ac 2021 Baroddwy Gedraith Rhywyd. Mae'r Cymru yn i olyfn mae yn c-gorill i fel I'm gy beat y I'm at Fysaweraeth— o'r Bw Griff yn cael ei'rναd o plaen gyfer ar si constructwydd ar deumolau Gran Easternaf. Oafden? ield o'r Llywyd wnaeth byrnyff innovative? Rhe klar? Mae ni'n defnydd conseguem darodd�� a'r ag八 gledz wicked maethau ein bod o rungos aardsolf o Cymru o frym dysgu. Ono, fydl am ar £1568 hwn絵w yewn chyfan cyylâm a hynny Brexit Bosaeth 507 traidio Baseорgtfaol, yn ffordd Chies llevendregylmynd, yn ffordd syd Kidd cribol yn gallu供at yn 18 wedi bod yn cyliwad hefyd, â diwyntad hawr ythwan Loghywodraeth wna upgrade o sighdell yna o pawwch syddael am gwyldr秒 a g tetphaeodd gydgywod. barhm👋 Inò ddysañad cyführ cyfrifunderau, mae ceithaf yweld Caswrad panau cyfrifuodiau yn equip êna a fel gyrru rhalf yn gallu redodol Ios mófn goheres? darol am y leluweld bryd am gyn sneak, yn arlof y high de sa yw ochr 131, yn cael wh Chillram. O 95% i'w Nwyn, 29很好 70 t Maya said address on another person on one. otsot yn mewn onnt cw nursery who is 4. 4. Lef the third, the lowest number of children living in temporary accommodation in London is positive. The protocol that you see in front of you has been developed in partnership with children's services. On my professional viewpoint, we have excellent working relationships with children's services Pawelau iawn i 페fyd f fan hynod dalolol ar gy SDF, mae hynodod0 brauch o yn rhoi'u mae hwn gwerthest datigchu rhagio ar gyda'r pysdum gweith o un tyfen yw oshais yellgefeli mewn yn gwneud, fel'n rhagio'D oiblau sefydd in wedi ufford rowom menŵgysgrug y takei y cefodd moor. 段odron, wrth Charthig i Llyтаки nid i lightly fronkel, bryd i'w y cymbeith gofod i

a myler y Mentinnor â brydi ymryr llwyněn o barbrodend ei gysfyll ms bredd ar gy itgy. Hyundai Greifn a gydol i si Halloween a gydol i regimeol. Efalló rydym a fel gallem i myler yn gwisidamente cael globo sadden i gydol yma a fel fal newedig ei a fi fewn rhanau y gayfnau. i y mhamdut ei cyfych yn gwal ar innovations. anyog, sy'n wirili f eye o mai buddwch ylo. Mae chi cael wneud mno? Felly mae'n prwydd ei ac dobl redd. Chywaetheth ei cael壓irioel o ffasónd i r Line plantation. Mae centioblw고 yn fawrado y warthwl wedi fod iblygu ac roeddau ad Gentlemen, naroddu y prodwysfryst i archiornio ac roedd i obl sefllwth. It's relatively close to get back to school, in that school connection with Byzantine's importan nervous west and Bulbyg, the G.B.* the connectivity with Byzantine's end of 21st century, this Project Gold builds on what we think could be best practiced and for you to hold my service to account, my plan is to ensure that that partnership works between children's services and housing improves and goes forward in the spirit that is meant to be. We are committed not to use Beddon breakfast accommodation, unless it's a diet emergency. So you have competitors with neighbouring councils like Camden, Harringay, Brent's, etc, who got several hundred homes fans with children in Beddon breakfast hotels. We don't have any living in Beddon breakfast hotels in his intern, we only place them there if there's an emergency. That's where they may have fled domestic abuse, that evening we ask place in a hotel. Shotra banc mlywn ac. Mon yw'r symud yw entiad am revenir yng Nghymru yw i'n g nurrwy sabd llamo Maybell. Mae drom, eu wedi arlygman eu fys respon best anoedd yn giorni mo cynnswaad o sos ph webb heel ffawn i cael bw waving Mae ywyd hynny population fel failod Cabinet ar y cyn 무서 veinal ac m月auag. Helpad mewn i gwaisethau hynny yn ei car i fynd i? Yem dod mewn cynripau fel f生 gyfod £3,5 Qi, yarme trwndi byblach yn rodod gan eu gyda â hynny fel Y4. Dylwyyd. Bydd ei grewوں o de inlet, hitit o gym drawerlydy. Mae devineodau ode o сеb yn adewid Jacqu組r enthusiol. Mae gogress wedi dzwy. Mae rofenad yma y medledy aufpriaffu, f heidol, bun yn maen ROOS, mae'n millaw come enw eisiau ei ffordsbwy Heutell, decynro bon nood coats, ac hwn i'r cyllip ystyn gyda chyd Ieith. Hymlwwf werwydd i rhain Gynt yn cylfin yn gy ench fallenol rhain gynt yn cyvredig avol a hunyn i rhyw但 filmedraeth ydy, lew yœigoeth yr Ysbytters, â anod羅f Grynydd, rhain cyfresag fyrddio hautogi felly trwychessau llew ar ti ei completion 1993% ac fgyllud llew ar yn어야du shhi庾. y consum caes reithiauriadau nhw, oes pwyd dydyn iawn jeg gu wedi grey gwasil llawer. Mae'n gush i gweithyd yn gfeithio pwyd turnijeng Rindogauau dim yn sot, a Born Siegema �aidd o'u cra grooves ni newydd ydy oedd hynny, dde� hynny meddwl, doedd hyng关ed o fo c вашeddversu ad newydd sy wedi yw'r cyDEis Ysboda嗎? Roedd Sfwell, i gyd, re'n coriaf yn yw chvenf rockhawn i bredig Williams unrhym yr archith accused mewn bwysboda 있ig. Dding ni ffodaeth yn rh знаud oolau. O yma gwneud eichen, cwο ddigemale broyd líneau yn yr hynneni yn unrhym ymwysbodau yma ei o fised. Trends ffod оказ, ac yna, gan'rdadis cael tawn yاح ym tillbwyr o hynny bod快, cael dawn sydd? Cyn has arill oes.

But it's something I down there loving me it's not fresh, but i'm aッ end care or team here. that information is specific to safety god in yet that transition and that information is like it's priority pe, z amlyfod yn gyfrol,lungen datwwhra. Peerg pastion mae ac mae'r trig Cheers a Ro cutsysi ac crewixel oven feindig wneud eich llanc'n fo ir hyn, gen y ro beth sy'n un gwneud ei substandu mewn. Ydw mynd o deithu mewn cyfan yn cylich i fûtio. urally, feindig o lef ymer�� Isaisでは y ludd dysgu amser un'n ferle許ели orgasyn ni a bethau angen niadun yr byddigau amser ten ei pysiwl a fynd yn eu ddeidor niefn. idsar y pw amysoo bobl cyflynau ach addictosol a buddwl hwnnwm rops, chyd ei wneud south yn ai wedi i begins fyrgynt eich entbl. Gwynt yn ef gynwyth o bric conram 애�ân o bobl, meddwl ketyn weithai, rwy'r lleol anィ어� Grius dŵgolfiad, Traf deceased, am wrth Callweryn Ysgwn Mic Barlin, a mynd yn gweith y blod ôl gwahanol ar fforddi namedod. Plan y cy années gyda i bry�� ei hynnydd o hyd? yddi bychydol gyda iawn cael iawnелol o y ddles klebl am yr model y muddi swydd pobl am â tyder cadw nhw i cywch growth ond sydd y blindness neu i weld y cywchreuol i cremdu, ondín y mae'n cadwiant Hiddian yma. Ide gennym sefydraith maenio an anyillodd gydau al i fl dwellau Sith Mae folylaid Dad Sou feiant ond ac fod yn hy​ o� Musicblarl? Mae'l hynny am gyweddd ar hynny o'r iynu y gwlad yn f >>: môl. M Anyway, mamdd i nPateyr ard gwyneth ar ôl Bu ryddwn gwithir cynnun. Mae'r segos mael â cydw maen nhw i n�� Committee rhan cyhyru yr i**netin i proximity ac yn mynd eu ar wyngryd bepar dar feelyn��rhey yn y erro yn deling a ceithau yn făbirds nadyach yn fel arессbygu i cydw benson yогad wir chi eu yn ffydgi ddynw g魔ŭ yn mis wprowaddu sy'n塵 rydym Cymru, ddd WHO sylweddol enquanto gyms angedsillio cofyn Nhad. Mae edna gw bedroom prath nhw yn dweud cynnod Magic baby Mc gwies gydediad cael ei aا ar yn gyfer Ken ym hill olsaill, cyllun wneud eu ffllatingi os yον. Felly, g evenlyeth rodd sy'n cyhawn yn cboxoel sond Okfn Doesuboeddwn David Joss beth 있�io roeddol eich gallwfgrill i hynny. To reò sorffatio,'i lliçõesr oesனu maeth intrinsicol ai, ond per gallu hynnyfio, deportul ready getwyr bod amgyhethnyn, hargu y ruinu nyse gofwellen ar magda sobthepach gallu it்af gyًdda probably. Bydd ywy hwn cynnig ei hunwyr y gaf drwy'n o Micyni店 nad hunwyr yn o'r loss, sobydd y Covid o leag hynnydd am ymiddadod hynnych wrth Bal��'raeth i ffan sarviad ap oedd rhyther canaolwli ran faffearthog Eitar Dolryd symff. Mae'n hynnydd am gyda maa soф Haushain lyr程 cylad diolchallau rydig Herna'n ydyn yn gallfop washedu. Ed透 iawn gwirionedd, geniad i ei mawr dụkin ac fo ophelau âfig putiau? Mae o'n prום am dydna access iawn iawn gyfan'n unrhyw i ddi poderia a pŵngor that formwaith yn rei yw ac wrth gyd yn unrhyw am bydder yngweithe, addol i chi'n Anywaych mae a syneau hyngymder y Gymraedd Cmiu yw by Kinnaeth Bat ar gyda o titw Howeverinum a rhydym mewn bryd eich yslyg wedi Eit dig fatal, sulРender dda, sychyn��d nokau mae hyngy explicit. Ych run e cael yn ment gynnaeth yw cymraeth, iawn ei ddim o mae â hynny ffortis âssaeth OO stellennaeth aosol ketistrynoch anきorôt a ey r comedy weithyrddol gofynod oedd y nghymnaeth ein h doing ty, cof. Gdyf yn mynd hyn cymru daeg sy'n gufeiraeth yn cyf humans. cyst来 gydnod de badlaid o fly unrhyw y bym, puede ar gyda cyda bod evolveem ryder. Ymerda glidef、 cysteforg, ond yma iaill yn ar processesfo a syrdon di wedyn hood largislw i'r cyfyn Medve y Kenyaethiroardo wedi rhoi marw celebrate effagol ydy gwaith yn y bubborm a mwy ffond. Cymru si helaul'ch sk prevalence i deïd mewn perraid cyp iawn efo gwaith yng Ng� Cas movedout. Mae'r cyngor eu yng Nghymru i dyfog! Mae'n i'n cael reен ei gwelwнизi acg cowr cryydd â amaratoch iawnıy ac gydm robe technicianog, i fyt sailig o beth oedd y Tacokoital frustration hynny doeg yn fforddu yn effil sy Athletisiau o foll headadol i otraol a mynd pan. Mae'r sw neuen plynff i ddig gan y gallubraethydd hynny i car�enni. �� beth y mae hynny coelur amlon os ennodol maennol a bobl i ddispotol o brach, ac mae mynd 놓ir eu enrhyg� iawn y fforddu sy'n mynd yrth, gan ein rust grafnos ond oourtid o hynny i argur. oedd ffordd i ddim Nghymdiolându freud, yn eich rathf Eiff göz, ac f done? Nadau wedi defnydiad hwnnna y oi lle anglesbyrGreatus' tp 20 mewn, y Boygeftod σε y phai yn rhwyraeth couldaethau coś yn ddiwiolio. Byddai Anywayan Ydy, Mae'n gweld yn byn i gywas. Mae gyda i'r hallnas i chgodd yn weld engagwc negotiations. Mae'n gans cito lle dda erbyg y conew думio eto fel hyn, Mae'n g chose g hair. Y bod, do Ginger H不行 yn rydfo, swirobidad Mae'r eu miryd, ong fel ei siang yn gallai dau ein nut牛 ff©ydoriaf o hygen! Felly, en gael hynny neud o Doneboard. El y mae cael yn heb y gwaithio eigodd fel ei serbydd pasterawerlau ac nifer gwaithio i gifram, yn y gwaithio gwaithro yn dargo ry hangethywna meithio al ar heddiadigaidd ac fod ymill erabym Qomod ac yn cael handled a cydau'r ym lantern. Gen ni enwel er cael ridiculousm gofnudad, bleolastodididid hon, ac yn gorhtiau y sfeunad meithio ym caöm synes d covid experiencing Mae am sydd i'r ceis yn yr ffo i ni fel eu ens. Mae am oysters! Mae passiusio fwyetherostu mewn yw ym caution, o ran gwneud bleidraethu yma o simblat dev razónaryffet ei bod mynd ddatblygufedorffesiad bairg i ei bolag o hynnyraeth yn tybymaig? Mae oedd yungs hynny southwest gyda fech yw dro fetchenol am gydaólur. It's big, it's big. I think I do need to emphasise her, even though they've been in that accommodation ten months, they may move three times, and that disrupts the child's education attainments. So they may move to Enfield, we can get them to Haringey, and then we get them into Temtor accommodation into Istington, and then they're given a permanent council property. And that is disruptive. We know that, but the family want to be as close to Istington as possible, other for cultural reasons, schooling or whatever.

Aedd y gallnid yn sydd un goch壌 yn whippedol, gydyn sydd gydyn n symud rhywbeth yna Centroly毒au sydd yn bi dewrt i deallol yn다면, o'n remembering. Mae y 16.6 ajaill, yn y eisiau flam yn mynd amdwl gwneud fyrdd. Yna ffhtagir hyrhoo, yna ffழ fe�i wydelwpor hawr yn iddonydd, fwy Кстати dema degoor learndyn ad-girl Yuan honau yn meddeuch能hey tax… Mae'r tuod g'n ni wedi gwaith i ac dod a fyrddol â'r fywyd, mae Roedd Gennwerd. Dyna angen oedd b council sw ABC yn pl іllw裾ат yn riseliddol sy'nffynydredd fel wir胰. Diolton mhoeg'r ail ac pan, hunau, ywyllig wedi sy'n verwnd cosces ac ceith morwaith yn yr hyynill. Mae crad, fel ni'n y pwn al n Arflyc Marten mae wantau rider cynhemru yn bus a trarchamethu caesa wedau MONWY a roedd iol. Breithenau godalen oedd bod eisiau meddwl gín vielleicht a nesud conti'n siwr i'n rhai. Eugene Broesporti'n yw, mae'n iwerpt. Mae'n freelyu yng Nghymru'n yn byd, yn ei gwledig beth mae'i ddim yn pethol o'r grotry, ac ym un felly o加入od Mentor yw Aedemon o Un mewn i roedd Claeless. yn un ar ddiwedd organisations, mae rhuchan iawn am gen yn milyn ar 80g yn gyda a ool draft crad queries. Mae barЕd dyna iawn yn honno yna o r mynd mlyenfyn rede. Rennau sydd y provider precarfכir. Y Sabbathína etなるほど? Cladau sydd roedd yn ei feth نwyti ang 유�ior u Glyf najlepauhofio wneud ni fydd bethau er un arall rheuluwyngol oedd hynid yn hyn am wedi borotr� nwy nhw, efallwch debó dddは llurni geroddniau e przedydών mewn bradwech i dymni bethedan mewn blot. omebno wedi cael ceza asgorei ddefnyddeawn gyhasain un? Mewn cow ganantrwch dysgu nael ei g psychologyg efallwch anyway, at sydd gwerodd hynew Pop Fin eleg sut sydd已 chwynau, gwnajdd ei'r bryrhawr i pan, ein weithig ni hiorol wedyn, Gwyliadlaw mae beth yn cyfly with very deard yn sef Ysgwertholfnwchrau, ein mwy lefa EM&G yn fel fewn yr yw aitfall Gooden. Ysgwerthol mae fewn ar y Xynir iweda que mae hamodnyaiddu creu gallu recomodol felly. Felly salud a'r fewn ni'n ffa ar dafa I Saint Erryn i Saint Erryn i Netell, yn ti â Ysgwerthol i'r teistol a per Darren Bai fo beth i'r cylu bob fewn diwyntiau ac fal ni'n mynd ar cael iawn ni'n argyn y cyflwybratau. U排bratau a rh gorau y ddichol a'r tref. Bf bf i'n g按 oor problema a ddim end prop y fwynn viw i peth addresstechn. uponna'r evadra. Un da na'r rhai am sywar pe Fontanaan a bwllau apod cir bygy byrdd am ddoeddus ar y hein na gweld gen�� pan' dwellbol. Mae'n cael os I will a gwaith. Mae'n cylwest mai cynnoel wedi'l ar метioog. Mae dewyn cynnoel cael oedd ond ym yr eifaithiad un. A wneud yn Gymref am sut cywrsidio ac Ital booksy. Mae au pragmatio gym Major 발� intoyn hyn am gof muddar. Peanfordd a lifóubna bwch yn mi yo ar Brexit. Mae Rweith Jan ylwch gweld ie, mae Hendemid eirc? beth Fur o induce eicholaum nhw bodad wneud ac yn ag機 hynny ar ddu Powngoesond gwneud ac ymog yn gwybod gwneud ac y bor Caviar. Gilywch holl Shysfと Deu Lionel, Getmail Cymruczenia W arrive desig posts ni wedi pan, maen yn perlwn o swydd cyglad, c-g yscir rhwyngor lluno yn dos cwysiant a wneigdi Bf�r o lle ond 11 ddelll 4提 £1 , mwyau cael nieog Mam yst yn ll new gallureç. Mae'r beawn yn y wneud diwrnau chwerский dros cwllwns b trioach. Wireless iawn, yn cyflwyn yma? o violaft o ei gos goss i trnewll Patroly example. Trnewll Patroly, ei fynd arach yn curr a fatod dwi nyau hynny fwa fel nizingiur. fel yn postfeth Ysgiliau fydde.には fyân mewn i chynill yn Wydig y byssionsell ar ylaillion rangau gywaithio? I peiff yn ozio! doors bit routoli j They are very special, Gdyodom y Holbyn o sdefnyddai, fe. Mae mae llanagוא�n am efon cig helium gwisithioaf y bodyyddio rhoi lleigio gyfle i drarwyl peuroriaith Amesach y Coss, parefflydryd i y gwwyddai. R thì fyd versiし mewn C–orgie Ensuiteeth o Coss byddai a gan roly rhoi mwyllu o gyffiliau Ysgiliau Ysgiliau. Cinfodol façon hwnwn i yw Р Aun nesafn, era Initially? Dingen ysei g childrenneud fet unconscious frannitw�� Rhô'r gyda'r fynd i ff🤎 yn yr i gyda'r fynd i ymwch expected mae fel ten hynny arau mae'r ddeidol ac mae'r chwill Ysgosol am dro egg해�ат a�ant wedi werТ כ차 ac dwi'n ff брос ddynwoodor yn dy i rockau yw lwyn oiant ddefnyd 1620. Mae periwr yn dd您 ar ôl, yn dim ac rhwun a llwch👷r y gyda eisiau o dictatorol ac hawddo ni dyw pym Euch i udd ar rain crydi inlandol recomiaith ddim no racaras un gwlägwyny fits ddynydd. y pithau. Yn chywch bus fel â ei mwynethau fod ni yna. Mae A Tiolch yn puur. Naturaliau sy'n puur.

hynny, o hynny, yn gall o rhan y maeth ly, a i da mought o dynamewan o 5 wediol a Bu yn cyfo hwnnwysniad wrth gwithan y metod yn meddwl oes istan rhwyl gwyllunwn skiur leth Natrygu. IRplebwy ar y migrgage achor cycilaethedda seboraeth. Ond gyd am鍵wllol o y mylllu v grill ar gyfer angyms gwliysgu Mae N腳gyfu,ridgeidaeth Beth Dum modd 나ó layerslygoro, wrth gydag yrошodd o bywyd o'r uniadadol am beiddynsww sag y ddoeg yn mynd i iddyn— fisherdim hyDBulli phan einiadodd sydd na beth g按oddol y gydol sut sydd yn mynd i sylwed yn start rad yn ffordd plays dar a creoethau di o fffyrddi â cymeirg fel 60 apodigfyrdd y ffyrddioynnu. Mhagor r真的很merfa miullion rheumutr Maggie Ball 317 wedi awpawn maen nhw bydd fierodol cym membr unni gwyl ein newid i ffordd yn y ffyrddio, o beth a dynych yn shefnlム, ac gynny chi pethau mae di fully mewn. Mae'n anunad fusoddau wedi wrth Timalicipd SiLgo am buddolaiff cheesydog caelau a vergon 40% ddefnybar apodaethau â cymlleith a faslau. Ddech Dem Sbilli yn boron yeti am y gofijolを ac sylundighaethuaeth, igos can, mae'n myndedr, yn myndedr is aynu'r agio ac heres i falla y tao vai g裾i ddóbarr ywayn ch Tylen That hynnydd cydbodol edrydydd arwyl â cylctegol phad boxes. Mae'n aweroth un mleiriol grading acatel ond mae'r petag fawrydid cyfret unanimouslyau anau mewn i'r eiseidu, qualiaeth Aurol Unbóros bod iy caende stoptol innto. diwodra upr enough to churchas ond cael dialiolg yn sefyllill. Ieb cael talf i diolch yn deineddlo i Hannah93ibhoedd i fyndpur bwll gyda o safet {\an2 sustainable ahead wnaeth dyna y gallunfael byddwch chi ddopa ac 114 cleared this the five 660 algún propatio. Y rhwch i gweld fo fo 2,000 propatio i bwll, rhoi dyb tele iswch제가agau relentlesson o ten mae ymdyn ymarkni. Mae'n mewn hangiadol ac ac i amaethau be onebu hyn yma yn â unwodraeth gwerci yma. Mae'n edrych i gallu wedyn gwrsивol o Athletonnau fFromg pan-Flectaiodd o volunteeringol eich gwerg. 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P答 Mae mewn elblwização pysgol dros o gyff Halwoodd, oedd Rhoscom gyffaf lefnith. yn y 4-E children that place outside of the boron or all the children in temporary accommodation. All the children in temporary accommodation. All the children in temporary accommodation are on EHCP plans or have special educational needs. On known. On known living in temporary accommodation. Good action there. Paul, do. Thank you, Chair. That information can be submitted formally. I'm sure officers will look at that and then responding to your calls. Thank you so much. Thank you. Councillor Zammie. Just on picking up from Hannah's point of view with band one. Could we expand that to children who are awaiting a statement of special educational need as well? That was just one thing I thought we should consider, because we know that there are children waiting kind of 12, 24 months for assessments. And then to Syka's point around the under occupancy. I know we chatted about that before the meeting and it was something I was concerned about. I wonder whether or not this committee could work with the Housing Committee on that as a project as well to make sure that kind of in the new year we really are looking at homes that have under occupancy and that we look to see whether or not we can deliver additional homes for children in need. And I know there is an appetite to work on this, but I do wonder if we could perhaps make it a little bit more kind of official, because I think like Syka, you know, only this month I have had three residents who would like to downsize and are not feeling like they are able to or the council is supporting them in doing that. So I think we perhaps need to kind of get ahead of this a little bit more. Thank you Councillor Claire. I think your first point is so important, and thank you for bringing that up, so we didn't miss that, especially because I'm thinking the children who are being assessed usually the schools make a lot of the assessments and reports, and then they submit to local authorities. So if there are moving schools just how disruptive that is to start from scratch or in another school, or not have those provisions in place that they did. So if we could note that, and just in terms of the overcrowded we did have that on housing scrutiny last year, or we had a whole overcrowded strategy and then recommendations put forward. So I think in terms of when an update, I know there's an update due probably next year if we could maybe be involved in those who want on the committee. The update's due in January, 6th January meeting, there's 20 recommendations which the children and others have been involved in, so we can certainly be pulled back on that. Thank you. If there are no further questions, I'm sorry, members of the public, sorry guys. Hi, I'm Kimberly Turner, I'm an independent send advocate. First in Camdenbud, I'm stretching into Islington. Just one thing, the schools don't do assessments for needs assessments and EHCPs, it's professionals and the children's department. Sorry, I meant the government that information sometimes they need to gather it and then send it to the local authority and then an assessment's carried out. One of the things that hasn't been picked up in housing is that children with education, health care plans can't just change school. There has to be a consultation with a new school, so if a family decide to stay out of the borough, that's something then that the schools in the area need to be consulted. I'm just wondering, we don't have the data on how many of these children are on child and need plans with an education health care plan, but equal to how many of them they want to stay in the boroughs where you've temporary placed them, can then access a school that can meet need, so it's really important data that education health care plans are picked up. Thank you. Thank you so much and we have action there and we will get that data brought back to committee. Can't say hello. Thank you to the member of the public for bringing that up. I just kind of want to maybe squeeze a little bit more out of that from officers in terms of some schools that often we find that there is that long commute into schools and maybe that I guess the send need is hiring some schools because they've got a really good reputation but maybe they haven't got the funding element within the school. Can officers feedback to us what extra support of the schools being provided with in terms of supporting those students? Please, thank you. The students, sorry, is there students that are in temporary accommodation? Thank you. That's an important question because I think we would all agree. It's in an everyone's interest that we support the most vulnerable children and those potentially at risk of disadvantaged and at risk of poor outcomes which this cohort potentially dependent on their circumstances has the potential to do so. Officers across the local authority, our case workers work very closely with our schools and we're families and we have over 2,000 children and young people locally with a statutory education health care plan and we have several thousand more who are open to send services or send support with schools but not quite at the threshold for accessing an education health and care plan but subject to notification of them schools and families offices will work closely with those schools as well and work with families. So all families once a child has an education health care plan will have a case work as well. So if it is brought to the attention of officers via the school or other parties that there is a concern and there is a need for a target programme or we do also have the option of bringing forward the review. The annual review process for a child of a statutory plan, if there's any to escalate and review and redesign the plan or the support intervention offered in any way, shape or form. It's on an absolute perfect system. I'm sure we will appreciate that a send system nationally is under significant strain and under significant pressure. We have a secretary of state who's in listening mode at the moment of a department for education looking at potentially reforming and redesigning the system. So there is a pressure across the system but it doesn't mean that we don't engage and don't undertake the necessary to try and improve outcomes of children in that space. But it is a challenge without that. Thank you Paul. Did that answer your question? Are there any other questions from the members of the public? Thank you. If there are no further questions, can I ask members to note the report? I will brief the report, sorry. Thank you. Thank you so much Ian. Thank you. We will now move on to the next item this evening, which is the school organisation update. Paul, I believe that you're providing the verbal update. There are no papers for this item. It's just a verbal one. Can I just remind members just to be mindful of the pre-election guidance and that it is a live consultation? Thank you very much, Chair. As you've said, this is where we are in the pre-election period, so this does come with restriction. So this is an update, the request to do update committee members are where we are on phase 3 of the local authority school reorganisation programme with a focus on reducing surplus across the estate. Colleagues, it's been shared on many occasions that London faces a serious challenge in the education space, not just London, but many big cities and nationally. With regards to lower birth rates, falling rolls, families moving out of any city areas, and challenges around home and accommodation and housing, makes for a perfect storm. Unfortunately, in previous years, we always had a challenge. We didn't have enough school places in the system. We are now unfortunately most London authorities find themselves in a position where we have too many places in the system. Across Islington, we are no different to many other London authorities in this regard. Across Islington, we have over 20 per cent average on average surplus places in the primary estate, and we have pressures moving into the secondary estate, and therefore consistent with how other London authorities are understating, we have to make tough decisions and reducing the surplus. When we are aware that each MTC in a school costs in what they call the Alpoor, in the age where to people unit, just over £6,000 per child in the primary phase. So if you have a school in essence that is carrying 100 MTCs, that's £600,000, schools can't sustain that type of pressure, that type of gap, that type of budget pressure, schools having to make tough decisions on whether they stop doing. Can they afford teaching assistance? Can they afford sufficient teaching staff? Can they afford to do the repairs? Can they afford the enrichment activities? Can they afford the investment in IT? Can they afford all the additional extras to ensure that the experience for children and young people attending these schools is as positive and experienced as possible? So the local authority finds itself in the statutory lead in having to make some tough decisions. So we've entered into Phase 3 of the programme, which commenced a number of years ago, where there are two schools in scope who are going for an informal consultation phase at the moment, and those two schools are hybrid quadrant, which is in a five-week informal consultation phase, which is due to end on the 11th of December, and then also due to support where the five-week informal consultation period is due to end on the 16th of December. So far through the informal consultation process, the information we see, we've had over a hundred responses to the consultation process from representations regarding St Juden St Paul School, and we've had over 150 responses regarding hybrid quadrant score. So we have a number of weeks still to go to gather information. At the end of the informal consultation phase, offices will write a report based on the information that is captured during the process, share the most timely and relevant information and data. A report is therefore then scheduled to go to executive leadership in February to make recommendations on next stage. And at that stage, the cabinet members or executive members will make a decision on whether to move to the next phase, which is statutory notice formal consultation, or to not take the exercise any further regarding either or both of the schools. Within the scheme of delegation, this is a political decision. It's not an officer decision, so officers will be only collecting the information and advising for executive to make a final decision. So, cheer, that's when we're out of the process. As I said, it is a verbal update given that we're in the pre-election here, so that comes with the associated restrictions. Thank you. Thank you, Paul. And if there are any questions that can't be answered, then a written response would suffice. Can I take questions from committee? Sophie? So, thank you for that. And I'd just like to say that it's really appreciated in the consultations that I think the reasons why those schools were chosen were laid out extremely clearly, and I think that's really helpful for schools and parents at a time that is obviously incredibly, incredibly sad for those communities. My main question is to really understand like, is this the whole of the proposal for phase three, or is there more to come because those two schools, actually, when you look at their combined places, it's actually less than we did last year with the closure of Montem, and less excitement. So, in fact, those two schools combined have about the same number of places as Montem, and actually because they're on the borders of the Islington Borough, a lot of those students will go to Hackney schools, and so I just wanted to understand, is this the whole of the proposal, or are there other closures to come? For example, I noticed in the delivery plan, it said that there was a plan for 5.5 forms of entry in primary school to be removed. Thank you. Thank you. At this moment in time, those are the only two schools. In addition to school closure, we do look at also publishing mission numbers at PAN, reductions as well, so that's reducing the admission numbers for schools. So, a free formentary, for example, maybe move to two formentary, two formentary to move to one formentary as well, so it's a mixture of activities that are undertaken to reduce the PAN, but at this moment in time, working within the framework that's required, we are working to closure for those schools in August next year's subject to how things progress through the political process as well, so those that are the only two schools can't be amounted. Nick? Sorry. Thanks. In the challenges and mitigations part of the report, it's essential that compelling vision sets out to our school vaccination plan, and it's communicated well to all stakeholders through a dedicated corporate communications strategy. How successful do you think you have been that perhaps, and any lessons to come in the future, and what are the risks going forwards? I'm not sure if I'm in a position to comment on how successful we've been in communicating the plan. I think fundamentally we will go through the process of capturing the views through the consultation exercise, and we will take the information that comes through that and put it into sort of a report that is due to go to the executive in February, in terms of it's an incredible difficult situation where we find ourselves, we don't have enough children in the system. There are insufficient children in essence, and that's the primary argument, that's the primary challenge here. Children are leaving London, families are leaving London, young professionals are moving in, the data sales, and not necessarily having children, or replacing the amount of children that we're losing. So what can stop this process over the next few years, the GLA data sales for the next seven, eight years, that in the London, and in the London authorities in particular, are going to continue to face significant challenges in this space. It's a real, incredible challenge. The Islington approach, that phased approach, I colleague earlier said, well only two schools were trying to go with that phased, graduated approach where we look at published permission number reductions, as well as school closures, and where possible and where appropriate. And malformations, this type of approach is very much the end of the line, you try to avoid at all costs having to go through such a process, and engagement with school leadership, engagement with school government bodies takes place for the views to try and to find an alternative. So as a strategy, the very fact when you hear stories like some local authorities in London having to close 16 primary schools and four secondary schools, which has happened in other parts of the capital, I don't think Islington are in that stage as yet, but it's not for me to comment on the success. I think it's very much about how can we reduce the need to having to close schools and minimise the risk and impact on the system. To try and make sure we have a successful, sustainable, vibrant education system, Islington has 97% of our schools are good or outstanding. The performance of our schools compares favourably with national standards we wish to preserve the integrity of the entire education system, and sometimes we'll have to make some tough decisions in order to achieve that possible outcome. So in terms of where we're at the moment, the success of it, the charges on the outcomes, I suppose, but we need to maintain the integrity of the system, we have more schools falling into financial difficulty as a result of surplus. So those tough decisions, hopefully that can avoid us having to see in the future, need to make more decisions having to close schools. Thank you, Paul. And just to follow on Nick's question, I think, Michelin, if he could come in just in terms of lessons learned as well, especially in terms of communication with parents, and also if the result of this consultation means that children need to be moved schools, what that communication and support to parents would look like. Thank you very much, chair, and thank you for your question, Paul, because we are in phase 3, that means always there is a room of improvements. That means from phase 1, phase 2, we learn quite a lot, because as all of us we can imagine, more than 20 years in Exlington, no school was closed, that means at one point it was a new exercise to many people, including myself as a little member. We gave ourselves a room of learning, understanding, and reflects about how can we do think differently, and also to hear the voice from school community, including teachers, that means parents and young children themselves. I can give an example, some school requested even to have interpreters in the room, in the meeting, not just to translate the questionnaire online, and we managed to organize, because we have to bear in mind, is not every parent speak English, some of them English is not in first language, that means ahead of the consultation, even before the informal consultation, we engage with the school to have an idea how many languages have been speaking in that school, for us to provide interpretation, in that way, for parents to understand really what we are doing for them to get involved, and we are not just keeping a lie on parents and children, we take in consideration also about staff, that means one of the learning points is about, even during informal consultation, we are engaging with the unions all together in one room, rather than having meeting with the union separately, we brought all the unions together, and we discuss what is the best approach for them also to really support the members, because we believe support is not only coming from us, because they trust the union and they can pass on the information, and to work with that full collaboration ahead of any kind of consultation, we are learning from that, and we think it's helping, it can be included members of staff. Thank you, Councillor Michelin, Councillor Anastas. Thank you, Chair. I will try not to be political, so there was a lot of discussion about what schools are choosing between and how difficult it is in terms of being able to afford things. I would like to know whether we, the council, have asked whether the last government or this government are for more funding for schools, because there is one part of the equation, which is not enough children in our schools, but also the other part of the equation is how much we are actually getting per child. Thank you, John. Yeah, thanks, Chair, and thanks, Anastas. So, I lead on the Education piece for all under DCSs, excuse me, and it's a question we've been posing, Paul and myself did it back in the spring. We had DFE, Off-Stab, unions, we had the diocese all in one room, we were looking at recommendations, we've come up with two page recommendations that we worked up with London Councils. One of those was about reviewing the actual funding. What I think they've been very clear about is, I would say there's very much a cultural change in the way that the DFE are working with obviously London Councils and all under DCSs about the arts. They recognise the challenge we came with evidence last year about the number, the falling role, with the projected, if you look at DSG, which includes the high-age block, London is very close to half a billion and that's schools bottom line as well as local authorities bottom line, so we know there are huge challenges with that. What we do also know and what we have heard from Treasury is there is no more money and so therefore if you've got smaller schools and the declining numbers that Paul has just been going through, there isn't going to be Treasury coming, they've been very clear about that. We've heard that one year settlement doesn't include anything for schools. We know that what we are trying to listen to and I think Government are considering ISOF's report and also a report on inclusion from mine. I just about what they might need to do with that, notional, £6,000 in SND by far, woeful and that I think is the first thing that needs to move, but I don't see a smaller school subsidy coming. We have made that ask about reviewing that tariff, but although I would say there's greater conversation about local autonomy around place planning, working with free schools and also with academies, around that, what it would say is I've not heard anything about more funding coming through for schools in terms of where they're shrinking. Thank you, John. Councillor Eilchairn and Sophie. Thank you, John, for that. It's just to go about the funding again. We seem to be it's an open discussion. The two schools are going to be closing, so therefore the funding that was going to go to those schools surely means that we will have some service funding left. Correct or am I wrong on that? Because if they remain open, then yes, we'll be spending more money on those schools, but we're thinking about closing those schools, so what's going to happen with the budget that we've reserved for those schools? The funding follows the child. So in the event that the children go to other schools, I mentioned earlier about the Orpo, the age-weighted pupil unit funding allocation, which in the primary phase is just over £6,000 per child, so dependent on where those children go that funding will follow the children to the relevant school. Thank you, Paul. It was more of a general question than children's prues. It was basically when these schools closed down because we're closing down because we don't have any funding. We know that the mayor has already said that he wants to invest more into the prues by providing mentors, so that would be additional income. That was just recently stated by the mayor of London. My question is that we are getting mentors into school where we're not to be having attendance officers in schools where we need mentors more, and I just want to know if we can have a look at our budget and just see what we can do better for our children, because I don't see a future, I'm sorry, I really don't, I really don't see a future. Sorry, just to clarify on your question, because I want it answered, is it in terms of where's the funding going when the schools are closed? Is that? Is that council reserves? Thank you, Paul. Thank you, I think the work of pupil referral units and providing provision for children who need to be educated otherwise in the school for reasons of behaviour, exclusion, medical and otherwise, and the support that's provided for them is a very important programme work. Obviously, the focus here for this conversation is about school reorganisation, and obviously, how we're managing our surplus, falls within the section 14, stash it to duty for local authorities to provide citizenship provision, or section 7 when it comes to early year citizenship provision, the area pupil referral units falls within section 19 education otherwise in the school, it's another policy discussion, if that's something we should do in the future then I think then we should put that on the forward plan, but we are focusing here as far as I was aware on school reorganisation and the how the local authority discharges its section 14 stash it to duty. Thank you, Paul. Sophie. So I've got a couple of questions actually. The first one is that obviously this is a really, really difficult process, and what we saw over the last year was it just taking an absolutely enormous toll, particularly on lots of people, obviously parents and teachers and staff concern for their jobs and so on, but I would just like to specifically point to the stress on headteachers and the stress on governors and particularly chairs of governors who were put under enormous pressure who had different, you know, constantly changing information given to them, were asked to be making themselves available for meetings at very short notice with little flexibility on the timing of it and conversations which just went in an unhealthy direction. I would like to really understand how the team is going to really seek to reduce pressure and impact on chairs of governors and headteachers during this time. That's a really important question, Michelin. Yes, and Paul, you're going to Carveon. Chair, as I said before in the committee, closing a school is our last result. We never approach any school in one day or one week or one month to propose closure, sometimes taking us more than a year. We are engaging with headteachers, school governor for us to find a solution how we can do things differently, until we reach to that last result of closure. That means you can see this look like we are trying our best to be in the same journey with school. We all believe and I want again to set into the committee. It is not only pressure on school, it's pressure also on ourselves because no one choose to come to this job to start to close schools at all. And many of my team, they are also parents. That's many. As parents, you can't really allow to see another parent or another child try to fight about them school. It's just the situation we find ourselves. As we said, this is not only excellent on problems, it's across London. That's the main reason we try to encourage schools before in just to try how we can do things smoothly. In case if we have to reach in the decision of closure and believe me, Sophie, even when we are doing about closure, we try everything we can to work in full collaboration with schools and school governor because we know it's not easy to anyone at all because we know as a human being we need to treat each other with love, respect and support and we are trying everything we can really to resolve it. If there was another way to avoid closing school, all of us we can be happy. I know some people asking herself, asking her question, why not we can have a small place that will be some fantastic to everybody because we believe sometimes small places and young people or children they can have more attention. It's just right now the current school budget formula is not allowing that that is the main reason. I think yeah and I would say it's not a political decision. It is because of the 50 million deficit and echo everything Michelin saying about not wanting to close schools. Sophie did you want to come in? I do because I feel like what you're saying it sounds great and I really hope that that is the case at the moment but I would like to say a point of fact that is absolutely not what happened last year and I was very close to it and that wasn't true of what happened last year and I appreciate that might be a slightly different case because of everything that happened with Paul's Park and the closure was a little bit more unexpected and so on but that wasn't really what happened last year and I'm very happy to hear that it will happen this year but actually it didn't really answer my question to be honest because I think that there are some things that the team could do this time round that would be really because I think we should think about positive direction. I don't want to be negative. I want to think about how we can make this a better process this time round and I would just say I think what would be incredibly helpful for governs and headteachers is firstly for the team to be really really clear on the process, really really clear on how the arrangements are proposed to be handled. I would say actually being responsive to the consultation response of to concerns is really important and just being considerate of you know particularly with the governors where the governors you know the governors of volunteers and I think sometimes that's not recognised that the governors of volunteers many governors have full-time jobs being flexible about meetings and things like that and offering more you know choice of dates and a bit more notice of meetings so and and a bit more support generally across the board I think to governs and headteachers would be really appreciated. Did you want to respond to Sophie or in terms of I think specifically to what additional support would be given to governors and headteachers that was absent in phase one and phase two or if John did you want to come in on that? Yeah happy to and thanks Sophie and it resonates I think with all the three phases you try and learn as you move on and don't always get it right don't always get pitch pitch right each and every school is different when you go and talk to them and you write very very emotional community feels very very very hurt and I think what my team are trying to do this year is that you know they're following the technical direction from the DFE so there is only one which way to do it that engagement started a long time ago with those schools and it's not is what schools want to hear you're trying to find alternative ways they like they you know unfortunately it it was a mandate given by headteachers when a first came which was we aren't all going to survive if you and the local authority don't act and we heard that however if it's my school that's chosen of course I'm going to feel hurt and and damaged and my school's been there for many years and this history to it and so the way one goes about doing it you know is you know you always try and get in there as early as possible with with everybody my team have been in there outlined the process have articulated it dates were given way way in advance around these are the options I know they're the options because I had option A option B all these dates in my diary and then it's for the school it's got back and and say can't do that kind of and we try and respond to that we are within day and a given timeframe has pulled out outlined that follows the technical advice from the DFE about how we go about doing things so we don't make it up as we go along and but I think you know if we didn't do anything it was just 12 months ago that there was 15 million pounds of deficit sitting within our schools that would have grown so by doing phase one phase two the pan reductions are really important not just the either the closing or the amalgamating I think we learned from the amalgamation is that always the right and best way if you've got the evidence base be clear put and talk about closure what we're now seeing that schools are operating on a on a reduced pan we're also seeing that that bottom bottom number of 15 is now less than five so schools excuse me so with those still struggling it's not quite so profound as it was I'll stop now before I choke thank you John Murray and Councillor Rosalind I have a question really to do with with the two schools I'm sorry I have only read it in the local newspaper they seem to be that about St Jude and I record it so I don't know the figures of the amount of children in each school but and it's obviously not being decided for the process at the moment is that right because I've any read the newspapers I'm interested in how many children have been affected and how be quadrant because when you said that they'll probably go off to a high to a hackney school I just wondered because there are other schools nearby you've got endless school there's quite a few schools nearby those children could be aligned to and maybe it could be I know that Monten and Duncan was aligned and it wasn't healthy and it wasn't everyone I'm not saying healthy but it wasn't you know it did cause alarm but at least if there was some sort of alignment so there were a sort of reaching out to some of these schools and saying we can take X amount so my first question is how many in hybrid quadrant and St Jude's I think St Jude's I don't know the location but I presume it is a bit closer to a hackney than Islington but with the same thing to sort of having a bit more specific school places because that would be the alarming thing for a child for a parent of a child is where are they going to go to and if there were arrangements then maybe all their friends could also go there and it wouldn't be such a big breach so Paul thank you those are important points we look at our schools and localities in place planning years we'll look at families of schools as well and in the event that a decision is made potentially in the future to go down the route of moving from the informal consultation phase to the next phase then officers would have to consider those conversations with local school leaders as well local authority has a strategy duty to provide education provision for all children and that's within a reasonable distance as well and as has been made clear to parents engaging in recent informal consultation activity school places will be found for children should they wish to do so and where possible we will try to keep we will ensure family groups are kept together but officers will engage with local schools in the right area in the locality area to ensure that we can absorb that so children are not having to travel too far particularly in the primary phase so those conversations will take place at the right time. Thank you, Chair. My question is what happens to the premises, the school premises that I've repeated? In terms of the premises well I'm sure I'm going to say to you that we couldn't possibly comment on that because we can't say anything that would preempt an undermine forthcoming due process as we work through the system the subject to the outcome the local authority has a a capital asset strategy program where we look at all assets that are made available across the council and all assets will be evaluated and considered as regards to local needs and we would have to go for a formal process but it's really too early to be even considering that because we're nowhere near that stage is yet where we're only in an informal consultation exercise. Councillor Pando. I agree with what Sophie was saying the last process was a very difficult one. It was very traumatic. I'm sort of supporting some of those parents that went through that process for me obviously that school was very special because I went to that school we know the school we're talking about so I just want to make it clear that obviously if there's lessons to be learnt from what happened if we can learn them and make sure that the process is a lot more smoother and clearer which I can see that you're trying to do but we must reflect back and look at what happened so that we can learn from that as well. Thank you. She was just talking about one term and if lessons could be learnt because of how difficult that process was for parents and teachers. Can I take Mary's question and then Paul if you could respond to both? I wanted to actually pick up on your answer because are you allowed to give the figures of the pupils that are in hybrid quadrant in St Jude? You're not allowed to do that because that was one of my questions. Did he give them? I didn't do it. I think you can give those figures. Can you? Well that was one of my questions and the other was I know that that's the Jude process you'll be looking at the nearby schools but actually are to me that wasn't specific enough for me to say that's your Jude process. I wanted to know that there were being reaching out in certain schools had arrangements so those were put sorry machine can you put your mic on thank you. Yeah thank you Mary we understand your question because we are in pre-election and also we are dealing in formal consultation that means the DFE rules is clear to avoid anything to look like we are reaching to the completion of the outcome before everything because right now if we approach any school to start to tell them how many you're going to take that mini-slough plaque we reach in conclusion in advance that is why we are just try to manage everything. So can I just have a point of clarification just going back to historically what happened last year I'm pretty sure the initial consultation for Montym and Duncan was for amalgamation not for a closure. So the current consultation for hybrid that processes that minus standing that is for closure is the way in a process where the council could change that direction and then it becomes a consultation for amalgamation. Thank you Chen that's why we have the informal consultation view to canvas as many views and opinions as possible. The local authority have considered all potential options to get to the juncture to reach those proposals that have been made but we will canvas views on the number of views that have come through so far that we've received. I mentioned earlier how we've had an excess of 150 views so far as partly informal consultations signed pertaining to hybrid quadrant of which some of that's been made so if that's made it will be considered as part of the process but I do understand that offices have considered that already but we're not opposed to considering as again to put that information and the strength of feeling for such a proposal to to to executive in February. Thank you Paul and can I just take questions from Susie and then so if I then I know there's questions from members of the public so I'll move on. Thank you. I just want to touch on what we sell said Paul about adjusting to local needs and the earlier question about empty buildings so we've got I'm not talking about the school's work and consulting about now we're talking about Clarkham or Procure on Amal Street we've got the Blessed Sacrament building we've got the London building so we've got that's off the top of my head we've got a number of empty buildings in isn't and and it seems to me that there is a local need for young people with conditions such as ASD or ADHD where mainstream isn't a suitable provision for them but there doesn't what is the provision for them and I also wanted to ask about when Montem closed what happened to Samuel Rhodes primary school. John did you want to come in on that because I know you probably might not might know more about this. So with the buildings and they come under the Strategic Asset Management Plan so don't come directly into my portfolio of children so they come under Stephen Biggs portfolio and Clarkham well I'm not too sure where that is in terms of Montem we're looking at plans for how we might use that it's a big old building we want to keep it for community assets but also think about maybe family hubs so there's number of options looking around there. We did go to the Catholic diocese about Blessed Sacrament there are a number of options that we we had that we could put forward that that was declined they have their own their own plans place not our it's not our land it's it's Catholic diocese land and then and with Samuel Rhodes there what is a technical term candy for what we did there and I don't want to get that wrong well maybe there's not a technical term for it but we closed and the school the numbers were reduced considerably work with the school about closing the primary element that secondary element is still thriving very busy that need changed from MLD where the numbers declined hugely where we needed greater great capacity around autism and so those numbers and it just wasn't any longer a viable option as such we had we had sufficient provision elsewhere. I think just in response to season because I think it is a quite a valid point in terms of the number of SE&D children and how mainstream schools are under extreme pressure especially teachers to kind of cope with that so is that an option on the table when we are looking at the assets that we have of using those buildings as a school setting for children that have ASD or ADHD or other special educational needs is that a conversation that is yes that option on a table oh sorry Hannah did you want to come in before I take John it just because it's on that point actually thanks and just to mention we do have a school which provides this which is the courtyard and the courtyard is across two school sites which is particularly challenging for children or young adults with disability and I just like to add into this I appreciate there's a whole asset management review that needs to take place but the feedback I've had from that school is that they haven't felt engaged and consulted and they haven't felt part of the process so there is clearly a piece here about getting the right kinds of pupils in the right place but also how we communicating with the schools we already have about the process to follow things and before you do come in John I think Susie had to follow on that just about the courtyard I think it's a great school but it's for children my understanding with learning difficulties and a lot of children with ASD or ADHD do not have learning difficulties they're able to take GCSEs so that provision isn't suitable for them but they can't cope in a classroom with 30 kids I'm just asking you know Paul had mentioned we were adapting to local needs and it seems cams published their Islington newsletter the last week and they said the waiting list is three years now for ADHD assessment so you don't need a diagnosis to know that these children have needs but there is nowhere for them to go so I'm just asking if Islington they're going to respond to the local need that there appears to be thank you so I believe we have sufficient provision locally the change of designation I've been reminded by Paul is what what happened with Samuel Rhodes what of course we do now have is Paul's Park and the bridge who they've been set up that again is something that the DEFE made that decision around so that provides additionality all of this additionality doesn't we we can't open new schools so whether they be special schools or not we can't open that that currently is the legislation so local authorities can't have to be academies or or free schools but at the same time our high needs block is about to overspend next year until there is that change in legislation we don't don't have that capability to open up further we'd also don't have the funding to to fund that and so we have to think differently about the specificity and inclusion that's where the mind information and isos comes through about how do we keep young people we need to keep young people within schools where we can manage their vulnerabilities and complexities so it's a complex one other than saying we will fill up a building it needs to be strategically thought through like saying we can't open new schools thank you Paul did you want to add on to that point I did I think John covered the fund of pencils and local authorities within the current government policy framework are not in a position to open those schools but one benefits of having worked nationally and having worked in central government as well as having worked as an inspectable local authorities I can compare and contrast so when I come into Islington and I see that Islington has one percent of its children with sand having to access the non-maintenance section having to go out the bar and compare this for the national average of 78 percent when I compare that the places per capture of for children with sand in Islington special school places is amongst the highest nationally when I compare that Islington is one of 10 local authorities nationally to not be overspent in the sand space or high need space as a result of effective forward planning and commissioning of specialist places special schools additional resource space provisions alternative provision and actually effective provision so Islington actually must be doing something right in this regard people maybe need to go elsewhere to really get a true reflection that the Islington offer actually compares very favorably and people always say it's not enough it's not enough you could probably argue about that but Islington actually in terms of places for children with SEM in the maintain section in special schools and the use of non-maintenance sector argument has a very very competitive offer and the fact is that Islington actually one of the few local authorities nationally to be what they call practice improvement partner recognised by the Department for Education to cascade and advise and work with other local authorities in terms of on their send systems and processes policies and strategy so I'm not sitting here saying Islington's perfect and got it all made absolutely not is you will never have enough provision and response to need but we do have to think about how we adapt and adjust the offer but what we do have is willing school leaders willing professionals across the education ecosystem to actually come together and try and find those solutions but if you remember one thing remember that one percent of children with SEM in Islington are accessing the non-maintenance sector compared with eight percent nationally and I've just come from a borough which is high functioning high performing where that eight percent figure my previous boroughs are that it was closer to 12 percent so Islington has got a lot right in the SEM space in recent years. I think that's a lot of the high number of children that aren't even on a plan and currently waiting to be assessed or undiagnosed and working in a school I've seen those pressures and I've seen the number of children with additional needs rise so you might look at it statistically but I think people's real life experiences and parents and teacher struggles are also important to factor just because they don't fit under that subcategory but Sophie I do want to move on so if I could just take Sophie's questions and then we've also accounts of allergies and then I will move on to members of the public we do have three more items on the agenda thank you. Yeah I would just like to express a concern about the quality of information that scrutiny committee is receiving or received around Samuel Rhodes because when we had the call in I remember it's very specifically there were a lot of questions about Sam Rhodes primary school and people saying that actually and it was promised it was promised that there would be a new location for Samuel Rhodes as in my recollection I recall that it had already been found concern was expressed the fact that one term wasn't as suitable as the new place that had been found because from one term the kids had to go upstairs and it was also we raised it as a scrutiny committee and I think possibly around June July time because I think Nick raised it and the chair then Sheila she she specifically asked was Samuel Rhodes being primary being closed and she was told no it was not and so it's really surprising to hear now that actually it has been closed through folding numbers but there wasn't an issue around the numbers back in April so I'm surprised that they've also precipitously especially when we know that the level of need is high. I think because mission I remember we spoke as well when I was told that it wasn't going to close as well. Can I clarify I'm looking for cancer and pain because can I just put everything in context here please yeah because Samuel Rhodes used to be I think on four floor of mountain and we all of us we know it wasn't really a easy thing because we there wasn't a the quads lift and the children used to use the stairs day in the out we work with the school to find another allocation where we can move the school and I I can't remember which period I think it was May or April when the school approached us to say there is a change of needs I think is a month around 15 to 15 children number I can't recall yeah I think 15 or 15 children that is what only Samuel Rhodes adds because the the need of those children changes they allocate I think four or five to go to the bridge because of different needs and which schools they can go to and we have some I think two or three from outside the border they used to come to the to Samuel Rhodes and then they have to go back to the borough and we end up with I think 10 or nine children and the school themselves they said they can't accommodate because the needs of those children change that is where they have to be placed you know the school in south of the borough so yeah Richard Clausley that it was the recommendation from school for said Richard Clausley can meet the needs of these children and I've got it in writing for them to meet because them they can't really give those children and as soon as Richard Cradley absorbed those children to meet the needs and the school themselves they said they don't have children they need to focus in secondary school that means it wasn't close to said we need just to close in any close you can see we could have consultation you can see there wasn't even consultation because them they said because of the the change of the needs of the children they can just be absorbed to a school where they can receive that help and support I believe that is what really the scenario happened because about which school can meet the need of these children and they school themselves that they want they divide those students in category and also propose which school they can go and we have to help them thank you I'm going to take the final question from councillor Valerie because I do need to move on sorry thank you yeah and I'm going to try and not be political here as well I just think I just want to just hone in on the point of just when we have some of our schools with that high need of send and send is very broad obviously you know special educational needs and disabilities and if we have schools that have a high amount of children young people with these needs is there sort of like a cut of point that our council is doing in terms of the application of funding that makes sense because I feel if you're looking at trying to I'm trying to make this make sense but if you're looking at children that maybe need an extra LSA for example but then you maybe need someone coming in to the school to support those students how is when the schools are applying for these funding is it kind of allocated I don't know if Candy wants to come in I don't know because she's spoken about this in the past I don't know Candy do you have anything because usually if you've spoken about you know funding and things like that so just a little bit more specifics in terms of yeah I think it's it's very difficult to give a quick answer on that it's quite a complicated discussion on I think we probably would need to bring up I can't come back because this is my thing because I think it comes back to Sophie's point I'm trying to make it a question but maybe it's a comment but when you look at you know when school governance sit on boards and they have to go through things and head to just have to apply for certain you know money or whatever it is whether it's equipment or the extra bodies in the classrooms I just want to know a bit more you know info in terms of that process and if some schools can they get more support because I think you know I don't know I just want a bit more information can we action that to get a written response or to bring back to I'm still not quite clear about the question to be honest but I believe there is an all-party briefing coming up is that right I think look we're in danger of drifting into an SCN focused conversation away from the original focus which was with a focus on school reorganisation and I hear the the ask about it because the moment we start talking about education health and care plants we've come away from the original theme if there's a need for a focused conversation on education health and care plans and what's specified and quantified in those plans and what the responses from schools and the local authority and response to that specification and quantification then that's a different conversation which I'm sure officers will be happy to facilitate if chair if yourself and the committee wish to go down that route yeah that's fine can we still just get that written response just because it's been asked thank you can we be clear about the question yeah we'll have that conversation offline yeah thank you can I take any questions from members about the school organisation yeah hi it's about the suitability of school offering in Islington the only reason that my advocacy is spread into Islington is because of the cases that I'm picking up and they're all ISD ADHD academically able don't have a peer group in any of your special schools because they're not learning disabled children and they can't get along in a sensory unfriendly environment which is the the mainstream schools it's not just in Islington problem that it's across the country but you do not have suitable settings for this cohort of children and it is dramatically growing in the last year I've got over a hundred new clients for advocacy just in Islington and there's only me I do this voluntary and I was concentrating on cabinet and it's because we're quite close to the border and the needs are pretty similar you have a good special school offering but you do not have a cohort for the children that I'm picking up as advocacy clients because their ADHD ISD needs smaller class sizes academically able and the really genuinely isn't an offer otherwise I wouldn't be as busy as I am in Islington. Thank you. I think that goes to John's point in terms of maybe I think it would be great and if we could get if I could get more clarity around what that legal DFE guidelines is in terms of not being able to open a school because I'm not 100% clear on that and I think it will be good if I could communicate that to commit you clear. Sorry and toeta I know we're trying to draw this conversation to a close but I think when we were all talking earlier we were talking about having access to data and I think Sophie's point about not actually having all of the information I think is why we keep coming back to this conversation so I hear what Paul said in terms of that's the official note but then I think we hear as a committee and I think to your point that there is a number of children out there who need this additional care. I wonder if the committee could almost have this as some data or a KPI it something that could be laid out for us that sort of says this is the current state this is for example the cohort that is not supported by the official kind of places and then maybe you know we then can have a discussion about what it is that we have to do next because we are talking about this in every meeting now and it doesn't feel like we have all we have all of all of the data kind of laid out in front of us to be able to have a proper conversation about what our next steps kind of might be and I hear you John when you sort of say you know we can't open up new schools etc etc but I think we are all at a point where we know we have to do something and I think it is what is that something and I think we all need to agree to agree that that is the something but without data and it been clear that's often quite hard. Now and I completely agree and I think it comes under the school organisation because I know that when Montym closed or yeah amalgamate and there were a lot of parents who had children of SCND who were impacted significantly by this and who felt like there wasn't a school that you know that would meet their children's needs and this is about lesson learned and looking at this so and also I think what is really difficult is we're in phase three and four there isn't been clarity if this is going to go into five six seven and I appreciate that that can't be given but we don't see that end picture and it just seems like it's kind of putting up fires and when we don't have data on how we can support our most vulnerable children when we are closing schools because that is what this discussion is how are we supporting our most vulnerable children it's really difficult to then even have this conversation so echo what players said if we could get that data and John did you want to come in before? Yeah I mean I'm sorry I've been an SCN teacher for many many many years and when you're talking I don't know if something's happened and whether autistic children's ASD, a child who's been diagnosed with ASD sometimes they are able to be included in a normal mainstream school they may be highly academic and that there may be only one or two in a class now I'm not saying that that's the case now that may have been there's may be increasing numbers of children who are being diagnosed because expertise has got beyond from 30 years ago so there used to be one or two and they would be somehow included it would be an inclusive school they'd go to secondary but there would be an inclusive department who would incorporate their needs now it's has from what I'm picking up has there been a shift and some of those children or we have got too many we have got 10 rather than one or two or is it just that the amount of money that is needed the EHCP she was talking about I can't remember how much they normally do but it depends on the borough and what they can afford that you used to get 15 grand or 13 whatever you needed but now it's probably you know there's no money around so the borough hasn't got any money anyway so is it that there's a major shift because the children are becoming more needy or is it just that there's more children and the SCN departments and schools really don't have and got the capability to deal with their particular needs just throwing that out there because that's what I'm picking up because in normal mainstream you would always have and the children will allow for their needs their sensory needs or whatever and they'd have time out but something is going awry or is it just the lack of funding and everything just cascading so thank you John. So I think as we seem to have led into a SCND piece and I think what we did say is that we're going to have cross-party conversation hopefully before Christmas not sure if we've got a date so we can do exactly this. We can share the date so we need to be able to share the date so there is there is lots of it. I think Kimbley did say her case though to herself as an advocate has increased exponentially and that's with Camden Anderson, young people and parents. I think that diagnosis has gotten better but there is a whole complexity and there's a methodology that might want to apply environmentally but as a game Kimbley said some of our young people are very high functioning just can't necessarily cope with that than everything that boundary. What we also know the challenge within schools where we used to be one or two now there are higher numbers of those. We are trying to keep those young people where we possibly can within mainstream but we need to have that data sparring where we can bring it to members, cross-party then in the new year, early in the new year, open up to residents and also interested parties so that they can have that conversation piece as well. It is not straightforward if it were. There wouldn't be a 13 billion pound problem that's existing and a pressure there with a 2 billion gap. I don't want to say it's broken but it's passed itself by date, that national funding that Camden myself is talking about where we need to increase that from 6 to 11 so that schools do have that additional funding. We know that LSA's learning mentors have reduced within school because schools have had to restructure five times because they're not full so there is a cause and effect when it comes to school organisation and also provision for young people and it is, in some ways, the perfect storm where they're there is that paralysis, it's central government because they're not quite sure is it just throwing more and more money at it or is there about doing something differently enabling local locality to work differently in terms of formula using those premises in the different way we don't produce more and more and more special schools, that's not good but at the same time we've got to think differently about that provision but until that change of legislation takes place it's going to be a challenge but we have a cross-party session, we can bring the data, we can give all of that and let's air it, discuss it and try and bring it bring a local way forward where we post clamp without changing legislation. Hi John, when is that I know we spoke about it but we didn't get like a month for a day or because we were looking on the fork of December that means because if you remember chair from the last meeting I said we are looking on dates so far they are looking on fork of December to see yeah into I think it's supposed to be in fork of December that is what Victoria the chief executive they are looking but now we are not sure because they're off now in 2011 yeah just so yeah we could get as much as possible because I wasn't sure yeah we're going to so we can be available because we said we need really to have a proper discussing it's not really we need everybody involvement on this thing I'm going to move on and thank you so much to the officers I'm going to move on to the attendance codes for the verbal update and it's mainly because I know a lot of work has been done with officers going into schools and I just wanted to know kind of what was the messaging or the communication that was given to all schools in terms of the new codes and how the schools are receiving that and it has there been kind of an improvement since the new codes have been introduced by the government thank you okay thanks chair so yeah members will I think have been given a document called code in requirements for school attendance I'm going to be referring to that as we go through this you'll also be aware that there was statutory guidance for attendance released in August for the first time and one of the most significant changes in that guidance was the updated and revised set of attendance codes there are now 34 different codes you'll be relieved to know we're not going to go through all 34 of those this evening but within that there are 12 new codes and so I do intend to just sort of draw your attention to what those codes are and what the changes have been with them the updated codes basically provide greater flexibility in recording attendance and allow schools to differentiate between authorised and unauthorised absence is more effectively and so what what we've seen is that many of the codes now have got subtypes so that it can be a more accurate coding of that absence basically so if you if you've got the the document in front of you if we look at the first the first set of codes are for when students are present in school so that's that hasn't changed if you look at the second category down which says attending a place other than the school these codes of code which provide in the student is in attendance means that they're not physically present in school but they are still statistically present because they are attending an alternative education site and the only new code in this group is the K code which is the first one on the list and that's where students are now attending education provision that's arranged specifically by the local authority okay the other codes are all unchanged although just it's worth members being aware that the B code has now been retitled to specifically include reference to attending any other approved supervised educational activity and now the reason for that is because nationally there was a big misuse of that code previously and so a lot of schools were using it to code students that they were just simply providing work to complete at home and there was no supervision so the DFE have addressed that now by actually retitling that code but the actual purpose of it is the same as it always was if we move on to the next set the set of codes that are absent for leave of absence there are three new codes in this section so the C1 code is new and that's for pupils that are participating in a regulated performance or undertaking regulated employment abroad so previously this would have just been coded with a C but it's now been sort of as I say branched out to be made more specific the second new code in this set is J1 which again previously was just a J code which was for interviews the J1 code now is much more specific and it's basically for purposes of attending an interview for employment or for admission to another educational institution okay so those two reasons specifically and then the third sorry Michael just to interrupt it was sent in an email so it's not in the agenda pack sorry because members are just looking no but it was circulated in an email so yeah thank you okay and then the third code in that set is the C2 code and this is for leave of absence for those pupils that are involved in either a part time or a reduced timetable of some of some description and again previously that would have probably been just a C code but they've made it more specific the next set are just those that are absent for other authorized reasons again there are no changes in these four codes except the T code which was a code before again has had its meaning change so previously the T code was for Gypsy Roma and Traveler children when parents were traveling for work it's now been made more general and it's simply for any parents to travel in for occupational purposes okay and then the last section is for those is for codes that are about absence we where pupils are unable to attend school because of unavoidable causes and all of these codes are new and so again because of that are much more specific so the Q code is where pupils are now unable to attend the school because of a lack of access arrangements and then beneath that sits seven codes that basically replace the old single Y code and then much more specific reasons that would sort of tend to fall under those exceptional circumstances as to why pupils may not be able to attend school so a couple of them are to do with travel a couple are to do with school closures there's one that specifically Y6 is about pupils that are unable to attend in accordance with public health so again they're just that much more specific that said what does that tell us in terms of our schools in Islington so again we know that nationally there are there's been some recent research rolled out called listening to and learning from parents in the attendance crisis and from that piece of work there's basically it's been identified that one of the key headlines is that there's been a breakdown in relationships between families and schools and one of the main reasons for this seems to be that parents are particularly unhappy about the accuracy of the school attendance data that they receive in particular at the end of the school year and so one of the things that we are now working with our schools on is how we ensure that the coding of registers meets that need and becomes much more statistically accurate than it has been up until now and it's not through any fault of schools if you follow the DFE guidance to the letter essentially they say that if a child misses morning registration and they arrive at school with a reason you code that absence but you're coding it for the whole morning so essentially the the carrot of everyday counts it's really important that you bring your children to school outside of appointments and things it becomes an argument it becomes almost defunct because basically schools are being or have been directed to code for the whole morning when in fact pupils may only miss an hour of school so again the advice that's being given now is that at schools discretion where it can be proved that there is a legitimate reason for that absence the pupils should be marked present from the point of arriving at school so that again you're overriding the code that's in the register but you're using your notes facility whether you use Sims or Broncom or Arba in order to continue to to keep track of the fact that they may have been for an appointment or they may be subject to a part-time timetable so we know that it's essentially the children whose appointments appear at the very beginning of the day that seem to be the ones that are affected the most because where students where children have perhaps a mid-morning appointment they will come to school they'll get their morning mark they sign out they return before afternoon registration they get their afternoon mark there's no break in those in those attendance and absence codes however where the pupil arrives after morning registration this is where they are being given that whole session code essentially and what that does is inadvertently is it excludes those children from attendance initiatives because immediately they get that half a day absence code it might be authorised but it's still an absence which means they drop out of the hundred percent or the ninety-eight percent or the ninety-six percent and again members may be aware that you know in any other walk of life ninety percent attendance or ninety percent sorry as a percentage it seemed to be seemed to be good that's not the case where attendance is concerned so where pupils are absent for ninety percent I've got sorry where pupils have got a ninety percent attendance rate by the end of the school year that means they've missed nineteen days and so it is quite possible currently that a child that has got a regular cams or a speech and learning appointment once a week by the end of the school year parents have been told your child is a PA and they've only got ninety percent attendance when in fact they've only missed an hour a week often to access a service that is helping them to access school in the first place and that in an ideal situation would be offered on site rather than that they have to leave to go for it in the first place thank you thank you so much Michael and I'm glad that you've mentioned that specifically and built on that point because I've had that first-hand experience especially with punctuality so working in a school where miss coming in an hour late and been marked as an unauthorised absence actually this is specific to a primary school so I don't know if it's different for secondary school if it's more lenient and just just on your point so I guess our now that I guess a part of your role is communicating that to schools in terms of them applying it correctly would you then be able to kind of monitor how that's working with the schools to see how that's then reflected in terms of the overall attendance because and also that communication to parents because some parents will think it's just a punctuality issue not realising that that's making their children be persistently absent so yeah I mean I think you've raised in a couple of things so first of all the unauthorised absence for children that attend after the closing of registers is something that goes across both primary and secondary so again we're talking about those parents whose pupils whose children are off school with reasons that the school team are appropriate for missing school basically but if your child arrives at school after the registers have closed which is usually half an hour after school has started without any sort of reason then you are given that child is given what's called a U code which is an unauthorised absence so again it's that it's I mean schools do communicate that with parents that parents are sort of needing to provide a reason if if their children are attending after that 30 minutes sort of I won't say discretionary period but after that initial first 30 minutes of school so that hasn't changed that that is still there but what this is looking at doing is addressing that sort of need that pupils are inadvertently being punished for something that is a not their fault and be something that again can can be sort of quite quickly rectified in order to make those figures more statistically accurate yes the school does obviously gain something in there as well because it affects their overall figures but essentially it's about parents and children not being unnecessarily upset about something that is not their fault thank you Michael I'll just open up to questions I will be really brief on this item so in questions Mary yeah my question really is I think you picked up that important point but actually if I was a parent and I was bringing my child to speech and language or to some medical thing and found out that there were cast has been unauthorized that's not accurate but they wouldn't be classes unauthorized but they're still absent so it's an authorized absence but in terms of when they get their attendance record it still says they were absent at a medical appointment for a whole session it won't say authorize it's not specific sorry it won't say authorize absence it will just say absent it will have the code so if there is a code there that that means it's an authorized absence okay so it's a specific code at the last well maybe the last meeting before last when we were talking about it a requested that everything because my worry is it isn't and looks as if it's got very high kind of lack of attendance but I wondered if the other boroughs were doing the same thing and also I wondered if all the schools were doing the same thing if there was a kind of benchmarking so everyone is meeting up and actually they're all doing the same thing because this seems to be anonymous and I felt that there was no way to actually examine that and how do you test if people are doing it and I wondered are you all meeting up and all coming up with the right answer or is someone saying oh I'm putting this down so that everyone has agreed how we the answer that because even if there's two or three different people going into different schools they all may have different ideas so just that was my big concern yeah okay so the benchmarking is being done currently so Katie and I have actually visiting all schools in islington between now and Christmas for exactly that reason so that they are all getting the same messages again you may or may not be aware that as part of the statutory guidance local authorities also then have to provide what's called a target it support meeting once a term to schools and again we're currently looking at the process of that to make sure that again it's consistent regardless of who the schools actually get in to do those meetings basically because again I mean what we're seeing is we've got two we're doing two school visits a day every day between now and Christmas and so again it's necessary we felt but it's not something that you could sustain for any sort of long period of time so yes it does rely on other people coming in to support the process but by making that process consistent the messages will then hopefully be the same and so again that training is being put in place for those people that are responsible for those meetings sorry can I just follow up with this and have you noticed a certain patterns coming up are people making certain errors is or is it just very random sorry well again it's it's not an error because they are following what the guidance has said but this is about interpreting the guidance because I would argue that the guidance has not been fair to our people's and our families so yes you know this research has been carried out to basically tell us what we already know that if you have an appointment that means you are coded for a whole session as absent that's not necessarily true it's a particular like train of patterns I'm not a merit maybe error was the wrong word but have you noticed some people are doing it one way and some people are doing that I mean all the schools all the schools have been doing it the same up until now and so all of the schools that we've cut we've seen so far are now looking at the alternative way of coding to make sure that it's fair and I'm sure the rest will sort of do the same thank you and just on your point Michael and I think Deborah if you could if you could feed her back on this point because I know I had a particular case especially with children where they're not coming into school because their parents have a physical disability or a mental health and because it's that won't be recalled none of these codes will fall under that and I had a particular case actually a few cases where it was particularly young carers so children that were young carers who were missing a huge amount of school or were coming in late so I wonder if we could have a look at our data in terms of young carers and seeing if there is that pattern there and if that is what is you know an increase or why is ninton has really high number of persistent absences because these codes wouldn't even capture that picture at all it would only capture if that actual child has a physical disability or illness can we action that is worthy if we could just get like the date of how many young carers we have as well and then maybe would we be able to cross preference that to if they are if they're fall under persistent absences as well I'm just going to say sorry can I just add to that though as well I mean the thing about coding as well is it is done at that yes there's now statutory guidance but essentially it's done at the discretion of schools and so the other thing that we are telling schools is that where they have got particular cases so we have to be very careful because we can't tell schools to mark children present when they're not present but equally as I say this is about trying to be more fair in the way that we approach it so again where there might be certain cases that you're saying look such as the example you're giving that certain children are constantly arriving late because of that particular situation then again it's about the school being mindful of that and and again not necessarily using punitive sort of reactions to the fact that they would then fall under categories but again I think it's worth saying that you know that the whole persistent absence of below 90% doesn't doesn't explain anything except that any given time in the school year a child's attendance might fall below 90% for any reason can I just take a question from councillor Valerie thanks chair and it might just maybe be a bit of an observation but I have noted that some of our schools have different start starting times and post covid and then just trying to hone in on specifics like you know and I've brought this up in previous scootonies where we have children from black and one of the definite backgrounds and they have sort of cultural religious you know ceremony festivals etc and that can also be issues you know throughout the year so I'm just wondering going forward like I know you're going to be looking at visiting schools but can we see how we can help to kind of like ease that as well I think sometimes as well back to how we communicate to our parents that if we can maybe do more things in school where we invite parents and carers into the school settings to actually do these celebrations or invite the local rabbi or whoever is to come into schools then they will also reduce some of our numbs in terms of you know attendance because I think you know 50 minutes here half an hour there two hours there all kind of adds up and I just want to just also hone in in terms of post covid do we do we find that we've I don't know if this like there's a class thing as well I don't know if we have certain schools that live maybe north of the bar that to commute all the way to the south that we're finding that maybe traveling is also an issue and if we can maybe sometimes ask our schools to give amnesties where you know there's traffic or whatever have you that that's also fed into this data collection going forward so we can kind of crunch data a little bit more if that makes sense please Michael. Schools are being asked to do that in terms of using their judgment I mean the whole emphasis on the guidance is support first and so again we're having to rethink how the access and engagement service are going to support schools going forwards because again the emphasis is very much off of penalty notices and statutory action it's as they so yes schools are being sort of I won't use the phrase common sense because we know that's not necessarily common but they are being asked to use their judgment and to make those decisions basically and use their discretion thank you Mike I'm going to take a final question from Mary and then we've won thank you and I was listening to before we were talking about housing and people being relocated out of borough is there a code to cover a child who's coming an hour and a half or whatever because I know in my experience there are a lot of children who were relocated the homeless children they would be coming safe for an hour to away and they would be continuously late is there a code for that? Well there's a code they're a code now for transport where there are transport issues so where where students are provided with transport and there is a problem with that yes there is a code for authorising but there's also a C code which basically schools can use that their discretion for any for circumstances that are beyond control so again we would be we would be sort of advising schools to use their discretion with that basically thank you is there any questions from members of the public yeah can Billy? One of the areas of need that I'm seeing quite a lot is a lack of reasonable adjustments around using the illness code so for mental health difficulties especially for neurodivergent children or either diagnosed or not the parents are not being believed about the reasons and there are I'm attending more and more meetings as an advocate talking about it mental illness yes they're not in camps and no we don't have a consultant's letter to say that's what it is but it's quite clear that's what it is but it's a growing number of Islington schools that will not mark those children as unwell for mental health and it's a big problem there seems to be a blanket expectation that unless you've got a consultant's letter then it's not a viable reason and the reasonable adjustments are another big reason why I'm getting such a large care slot in in these schools is because it's a blanket policy for everybody on behavior in the schools policies and it's a real big growing concern thank you just we're just to say there's not a blanket approach to that at all so if that's the way it's coming across that's unfortunate but there's not a blanket approach to that so yeah it's not unfortunate these children are then not wanting to go back into school because they're getting pegged for detentions because they're not coming in school their attendances dropping and that just drives more anxiety and the increasing number of clients that I'm getting quite quickly in Islington. I'm not questioning any of what you said other than the fact about a blanket approach there's not a blanket approach school it basically again the the statutory guidance is very clear the coding of registers is the responsibility of the head teacher so even as a local authority we can advise and we do give advice and again we are trying to give that sort of fairer advice but essentially it's down to head teachers to make that determination as to whether something is authorised or unauthorised and whether something meets exceptional circumstances or not. Can we just take a five-minute conflict break sorry just wow um should I carry on okay I'm sure okay now is just on your point Kimberly actually so we do recognise just from the data because obviously emotionally based school avoidance and how broad that is and everything's so much falls under that so part of our evidence government is speaking to is heavily on speaking to the mental health service in the council looking at the cams waiting list speaking to places to be that's a counselling service for children who are in schools who are coming in January so there is quite a heavy focus on children's mental health and there will be and how that has affected attendance and I think by the end of our evidence gathering sessions we will be able to have we will be able to capture exactly what you have pointed to when see as a council what what kind of support we can provide to those children. Yes sorry my point was about school head teachers and not marking children who are genuinely ill with mental health difficulties because they say they need consultants letters and then my next question would be is there any way in the council that parents themselves can report this to the council I appreciate you've got an awful lot of academies in Islington and they run autonomously but is there some way of parents themselves reporting this back because it is a fact it's happening and it's why my feet are on the ground in Islington more and more. Paul did you do you want to come on to that point but into and to I guess to ask as a follow-on to that is that because of a DFE code there isn't a DFE code for that or is that because head teachers aren't necessarily using their judgment to then record that. Thank you chair I think Kimley's comments are very helpful it's it's important that we get the view of of the those you're representing as well and as an advocate for so officers always keen to listen as much information as possible is always welcome and we do have our regular meetings with head teachers and system leaders where we can maybe share some of this information as well Michael has made very clear there is no blanket approach but at the same time Kimley has shared the views of those who she's advocating for all that's perception so if there is a perception it's something we will have to look at as well and and cascade and share that information with head teachers so we do welcome the views that Kimley's kindly shared on behalf of those she's representing. Thank you and can believe we can be in communication as well after the meeting that will be really helpful. Oh yes sorry your name. Hello my name is Rosie Horridge I'm a parent of two autistic children in Islington they both have EHCPs and my understanding is that this year this scrutiny committee is focusing on attendance is that right can I ask a specific question that's linked to that and I I hear what John Abbey and Paul senior are saying about there's a danger that everything could become a conversation about send but kind of I'm I've got two autistic kids I've got to ask do you know what you mean I can send it as a follow-up email if that's helpful. So my question is specifically about attendance figures for children with SCND during their first year of mainstream schooling because I think that this could be a specific issue which shed some light on how attendance and absence figures for children with SCND across all the school years are fundamentally figures which are about money or a lack of it and I would like to ask how many children who were on a part-time timetable at some point during their reception year in 2023 to 24 had an EHCP that was maintained by the local authority providing top-up funding for those children's individual needs to be met. Are those part-time timetable figures before CSA before compulsory school age included in the attendance statistics which you guys are currently scrutinising this year or are those figures for the terms in reception before a child reaches CSA left out of the analysis. Thank you because this is a verbal update on code specifically if Paul can come back to verbally and then provide a written response because there were specific questions I would appreciate that but if you can't because it's not specific to the codes that's okay so Paul I'll leave it up to you if you can give a response followed up with a written response. Thank you Chair. As you've you've absolutely been quite correct in the chair offices won't be in a position to respond to that but what we will look at is if the request is made formally there might seem we'll look at that in the round with our information that's submitted and ensure we end up together a response in due course obviously a question as complex and as detailed like that I'm going to ask my officers to respond to that to the seeming would be appropriate or they won't have that information available. Thank you and if you do copy me and I could then change that up and follow it up as well. I can do and sorry there was there was even a bit more to the question which I totally get that you can't answer now but I would just as a parent like to ask in this forum and then you answer afterwards. What policies and procedures are in place between the two local authority teams access and engagement and SEM to ensure that the decision to place a child on a part time timetable was actually consented to by parents not Senko's or headteachers and to check whether the parent gave their consent to a part time timetable with the knowledge that their child was actually legally entitled to attend school full-time at age four just like their non-disabled peers do and the headline is what safeguards does our local authority have in place through our policies and procedures to ensure that schools who are very cash-strap and struggling are not receiving EHCP top-up funding which is intended to enable a child to attend school full-time from the start of reception whilst concurrently preventing the child from attending school time full-time until they reach CSA which could be in the second or third term of reception or even the first term of year one. Yes, Paul. Did Chair can I ask if those questions along with the previous ones that have come in this evening have submitted fire that this committee then will make sure that officers are late and respond in due course but obviously for coherency purposes is important that we join that up Chair. Thank you absolutely. I'll move on to the final item of the court of four reports sorry I know do we have to formally adjourn the motion I mean do a motion to adjourn this special guardianship one so I'm just conscious of the time. Yeah if you want to move then you would need to move motion by the committee to move the item of business to a future meeting so sorry to move the special guardianship update and then just move on to the question and court of four report because of time. Is that okay? Yeah just so yeah so Chair can I just check is there any specific reason why we do have this agenda item I I'll be identified any risks I'll be being kind of guided to have this report to do it all right so I requested it because this hasn't this area doesn't really come to scrutiny committee because mainly obviously scrutiny is heavily focused on education and schools rightfully so and I think being on the fostering adoption panel and clarity on it now there was a lot of feedback from special guardians who often felt like there wasn't enough support given to them obviously you know they you know they've stepped up for these children and in terms of financial support that it was more around that so because it hasn't been brought to committee and because there were so many questions around that it was brought to commit as an introduction and obviously following from that introduction to see if this is something that we do need to look into in terms of yeah supporting not only the special guardians but also the children that are they are looking after as well but because of the time obviously it is important but I don't you know I think we do need to spend some time on the court of four report as well so if that's if that's agreed can we move on to the court of four court of one do you know what I'm saying court see it's part of this at the time court of one report who's introducing that I think we're just going to go straight into questions it's quite a copious piece there that we recurring themes for example I think the attendance we can all recognise is not in the right place still and then there could be other themes and questions this happy to go to questions chair oh thank you John um questions can I just see you yeah Susie and then Ann Estas thanks um just starting with the elective home education this is something that we asked in the committee meeting on the 10th of September for eOtas figures and I don't believe that we've got them here or we've received them since and just tying together the information we do have on elective home education that Islington is the highest of all in a London L.A.'s submitted to return um again touching on something that Curtis had said at the last meeting that he used to just a system and a lot of the kids that you know who aren't in school should be in school just just trying to bring everything together I mean we talk about Islington having such a high percentage of good and outstanding schools yet we have an attendance crisis so why aren't these children attending in schools why do we have so many being electively home educated and that's increasing year-on-year by 15% at least that we know of we don't know the eOtas figures still um sorry there's quite a few things there if we can clarify is the elective home education or is education otherwise in a school those are two separate policy areas yeah I understand it was a home elected well the first one was we asked for eOtas on the 10th of September well I'm hearing elective home education notice here this two separate we I think that was an action point for tenure to come back on iOtas so I think that's that was at the previous meeting so that will be part of yeah that will be part of our action log that we spoke about in the pre-me and there is quite a lot of actions that we have been chasing in terms of the ones in the meeting so I did want to note that it wouldn't be repeat brought back up in the committee scrutiny committees if there were kind of addressed offline I understand there's a backlog but yes who did you want to clarify your second yeah so the first point was that we'd requested the year which is data on the 10th of September so we were still waiting for that but then the rest of the questions are about elective home education which I assume does not include eOtas figures anyway does anyone want to take that question about home education and it increasing so can we point out clarifications are not I'm not clear what what's being asked just to increase of home elective elective people we have we the numbers are increasing year on year with yeah and we'd said in the past meeting that a lot of the children who are accessing the youth justice system should be in schools and we we were tying that all together last meeting but we you know we talk very proudly about Islington having the highest number of or such a huge number of good and outstanding schools but we have an attendance crisis we have people the the number of home elective home educated students increasing do we know why this is happening what the pattern is why these numbers are increasing so okay I'm just seeking clarification in terms of what you said about youth justice service you do have some children who have quite poor attendance rates at school but they're a none that are home educated so I'm just confused about it because that's not why it's okay so I'd have to look as though I don't have it's not accurate in the minutes from the last meeting what but we touched on this right at the end of the last meeting about sometimes children should be in school and they aren't so would they come under the EHG figures or they're separate we've the elective home education that number of good post-coffee I mean I think it kind of like probably quadrupled and lots there are lots of children who didn't return back to school in terms of the children who are open to social care who are electively home educated these are usually children who are on plans it's a very small number but in terms of across the council there's that you're right there is a high number for lots of different reasons because it's not a legal requirement that you have to send your child to school so some of the children who are it's around sort of cleansing the data a bit because some children who are electively home educated it's a parental choice and they're getting a really good offer there was a cohort where there's where we really concern they're the ones that we really need to know about who are neglected they really should be in school there's been recent changes in working together that where a child is on a child protection plan if they want to be electively home educated the local authority have to agree that so they've taken away that from parents to just you know actually decide their health educating because what we find the children who are most vulnerable and most at risk who have been electively home educated there are usually other issues whether it's mental health learning disabilities and other kinds of social issues that have been packed in on that family so there's quite a mixed bag of the electively home educated children so it's we could present information around the ones that we know that ones are on plans and I can tell you now that they're on child protection plans they we don't agree that they should be electively home educated and they're not receiving an education and we work with our colleagues in education but there's a much wider basket in terms of children who are who are getting a really good offer and those that aren't and it's around how do we you know they're not all open to children for services they are known to education and it's around making sure that we provide accuracy on what which children are we talking about because it's not all children but obviously the numbers go on but the ones that we know about are the ones that are the most risk. Yeah I think it gets the figures on the phone. It'd be great to have those figures that you you know add a light in your head as well and I don't understand sorry what you mean by those who have a really good offer. Just at home we work who are being electively home educated and that the education that they're receiving there's not serious concerns about that it's about you know the parents may be equipped to kind of deal with that there are some parents who are capable of you know providing a well-rounded education for their child of their choice but it's not a one-size-fits-all not every child that's electively home educated it's a neglected child or not receiving an education but we need to kind of reach those ones who are the most vulnerable because they're the ones who end up in you know very you know exploited and not not being educated and not having the best start in life so we have a very I think we've got less than six who are open to us in terms of on CP plans but then that's much of a bigger number if you go across the council which is a huge number thank you Deborah I think it was yeah it's increasing and do we know why it's why it's increasing I think it was just a general question and like you said there were different reasons some parents want to home educate their children since COVID because of you know it was just more convenient but others when we did the making children visible that cohort of children we were really concerned about being home educated there was a big piece of work around that as well but I think it's just obviously are we still knowing what those reasons are and that concern Mary thank you I'm looking at page 40 and 41 so there was this focus on phonics and how you were going to really improve it by the end of year two will be 94% I just wondered in terms of SATs results I suppose that's the measurable way of comparing is how many of the children that did attain phonics or good phonics in year one do go on to if you tally them up to go on to get good key stage two results in not just reading but in writing and maths as well because obviously reading of writing and maths in terms of language so that's one question and then on page 41 you've got boys with pupil premium funding is that another way of saying white working class boys because we used to have the term white working class I'm sure we had white working class boys is that just the same thing but it's different terminology because they're not they're not here the white working class boys so I'm asking is that is it being replaced with boys with pupil premium funding yeah that is odd because we did it did used to be white working class boys I've not seen boys with just boys before yeah so that's interesting and then the sorry it's been asking a third question but the number of electrically home educated pupils is there any way we can collect any data for this group because there's some real safeguarding concerns it's got apparently things oh yeah we'll just go out swimming today but how much much of those children have I've got a good level of reading in academia well assuming there's no spot checks there's nothing so much assumption there and it is a safeguarding issue to me that they're not getting a good level of education unless we've got it and I know the government haven't got anything in place but there's three questions sorry bald thank you chair the elective home education question officers have to operate within the policy framework as you'll know there are restrictions in terms of how much local forestry officers can intervene in the event that parental choice dictates that they wish to electively home educate their children our colleague here is right that numbers have gone up significantly since the pandemic but not just in eastern but nationally parental choices increase significantly in home educating the children unfortunately national policy hasn't kept up and doesn't allow local authorities to have teeth in that space as it were no I'm not going to disagree with anything that you've said with regards to that but what we also do knows that's for some for some families elective home education is a choice because they wish to educate their children and so there's good there so but there are children who I mean we heard it mentioned children open to children social care youth justice education I was chair at the last meeting I think I did suggest a ballot of home education if it's something that you would wish to to answer the forward plan then it's something to look at but it is an error that clearly has seen a growth error since the pandemic in particular but it is something that local authorities do struggle with the legislative framework have lobbied have challenged and there was talk about a national register which will actually give local authorities more teeth in that space that the first two questions though I'm a bit more concerned about was the one to do with your improving phonics because sometimes children can learn the phonics but they can't apply there are only a minority but I just wondered like this total focus on phonics you know is it having impact then on the SATs that was the first one and thought that was on page 40 looking at that and then does it impact and then the second question which should you do with white working class boys can anyone answer that the phonics question officers will work with schools and settings and school leaders and we work within the regulatory framework and we work with offset and we're not asking sorry if I can just finish because you've asked the question if I can question no the question you're not asking my question my question is let me read it is you've actually you're you're setting yourself a target that by the end of year two it will be 94% that the phonics screening check that there will be 94% there will all be very good and 94% of them will have a good phonics expertise at the moment are you tallying that phonics check with the SATs because you probably have got the data and they've had Austin we've had COVID and everything but will there be a tally up so you see that that that does have impact in the SATs we have to look at all of that we have to look at the intersections see what impacts are making you got it you're not are you doing that behind the information you have in the report is a significant body of material that goes into producing that type of report thanks yeah clarifying Mary's point because it's it's stated in here and she's just asking how that's been done but did she that's better so it's something we've identified Mary you're absolutely right that the reading at kiss at the end of year one the phonic check is below probably that under the national then the year two the ambition being getting up to that 94% what we know there is that correlation kiss they've run stats aren't there but we know it's strong at key stage two so what what does happen there we know our young people come in very very low in the early learning goals so we see that that incremental improvement which I think is good you know 63% of our kids live in social housing we recognise that they're going to be right at London but I think it's you know apart the challenge officer to Paul and colleagues there is isn't the professional partners they go in they benchmark they challenge we look at the fidelity to reading as a reading program as well each school has to have a fidelity to a phonic program yeah we want young people to make sure that we get there's too much variability inequality at the end of year one and year two particularly around that's the real Achilles heel for us is around early learning goals and phonics the rest of it green which shows that they increment the our children are making that that progress but it's about the reducing that variability to to make sure that you know young people you're actually right if they don't get reading particularly by the time they're seven that can have live chances at GCSE so about that narrowing that gap but then there's a there's a strong robust program with using some professional partners checks balances to make sure we try and get that ambition the data will come through in the march gives all of the achievement and learning breakdown if you might be remember Mary so it has all of that data and if I remember right the our members who asked it for it to be cut as many different ways as possible to make sure that we have that that that that sort of breakdown so the moment is provisional data but that's why we went to the march and it comes and we can cut it in many many different ways for you thank you and can we just get that data about our libraries and how well they're being used as well Councillor Valerie want it if in terms of if they're being used our libraries and numbers it was part sorry in terms of to Valerie did you want to just yeah thank you I brought you up at previous committee meetings where we've talked about the function of our libraries and how they support our children's connects and you know I'm learning and I think there's something to be said about and how many visits our local schools are having yeah just across the board and I think there was a piece that also gets named Brown Anthony and when Anthony was around that was something that we was trying to pick up on so if we can kind of draw back on that I would really help because that goes to Mary's point about accessing literacy et cetera thank you thank you I'm going to take final questions from Councillor Ilkaya and then Samette or well Councillor Ilkaya Anestas and Samette but no further questions please thank you because it's quarter to ten thank you question I want to ask is about the number of elected home educated pupils now when we've looked at this data it was told that the increase was due to during covid but the stats here reflect 20 22 to 23 24 to 25 which is not covid and the number seems to be going higher and out of these children have we broken them down as to could it be that the reason my parents have chosen to keep their children at home and teach them is because they haven't been diagnosed it's because that maybe they haven't found a suitable school for their child's needs I know that we keep going back to send but it all comes back send when we look at send it will help us understand why there's persistent absences when we look at send it's going to explain why we have parents that want to keep their children at home because they feel that their children have not either been given the certificate or have been waiting a very long time for the EHCPs or simply because their children do not fit in we have schools we all know and thank you John per saying that we were going to be bringing the proofs into scrutiny I mean I'm really looking forward to discussing that so when we look and this then falls into the category of why we are having lower numbers in our schools because parents are choosing to keep their children at school so therefore it can mean that the reason why the numbers and schools are going down is because we're keeping our kids at home choosing to teach them at home because the schools that they're going to don't provide the services so if we had the services within the schools you would not see the number of pupils dropping in our primary schools and in our secondary schools and then we would not be speaking about closing our schools we'd be talking about how more we could help these schools because these children are remaining in schools so when we look at the elective home educated pupils could we please have a breakdown as to why these children are at home thank you John cannot ask would those concerns be addressed when we speak about send in the next meeting or or is that or is your question specific to SCND children who are being home educated it just links it to everything you're doing I mean we're talking about sorry chair I could be teaching it links it to persistent absences it links it to the fact that we are not sending our children to school so therefore resulting in school closures it's into links so we have to look at it as a whole we can't just say right we're going to focus on SEND because send them can equate persistent absences then it could be oh why are they absent because they haven't been diagnosed oh why haven't they been diagnosed because we don't have the enough resources and why don't they go to school because we don't have mentors it is a vicious circle and if we're increasing numbers sorry by nearly 30 kids in a year next year it could be 60 then we could be faced with closing more schools we need to address why parents are choosing to educate their children at home because that's when you will see the true numbers like Kimberley said a hundred kids that's a lot I think that's coming quite strong about concerns around home education and it's rise so I think that would need to be brought back if I just finished taking questions from the committee so after Councillor Clare and Councillor Ness this then I'll move on to members of the public yeah most just a quick question chair I was looking at the increase in engagement rates at youth clubs and I was just noting that you've just mentioned Rose Bowl so do we only collect data from from one community centre thanks for that Councillor now we collect data on all of our youth hubs they all input onto our IYSS database which enables us to collect for data in relation to participation and engagement it also enables us to collect demographic all data in relation to our young people as well in relation to gender and ethnicity and the average rest is what Barra Day come from because not all of our young people who attend our youth hubs come from isn't and most of them do but we have young people attending our youth hubs who also come from Harringay, Hackney and Ferrefield as well so sorry about that maybe it's like mistake what's a page you refer to I'm looking at page 33 so it basically says who attended youth provision included ages 13 to 2013 to 25 who attended Rose Bowl so only and it's 5.12 and 5.13 as well as you know it's an area I mean yeah that's just including it's eight including those who attended Rose Bowl but it's not distinctly and out Rose Bowl it's included all of our youth so it's so it's all of them okay thank you thank you we'll tie it up for next time I see you can't slow nest us thank you chair so just over a year ago following the death of so my question is about opposite single word judgments over a year ago following the death of head teacher Ruth Berry I asked the executive members and the question about whether we would stop using single word judgments in our evaluations of the school system because it was clear but if it's not healthy for schools it's not healthy for the school community I was told that we would continue to use them in September a couple months ago I asked the same question at full council of our executive members I sadly can't be here but I've got the same response that the council will continue to use the headline single word judgment statements I'm very pleased to see that the government is going to stop using them I'm very pleased to see that in the report it states this will be the last time this indicator will be reported in performance scrutiny due to the noted changes at the government level but also a year ago I did ask this council to be creative and to be bold and to take the lead in terms of thinking of how else can we communicate how brilliant our schools are and to think of alternative ways rather than the opposite single word judgments and some of us have taken up that challenge Camden I think I believe us so recently on BBC came up with their own way that they can inform the parents the students about what the school community looks like so my question is if we're going to stop using these which is brilliant what are we going to use to inform parents about how wonderful our schools are and how we as a scrutiny committee can be informed of how amazing our schools are going forward Paul brief answer please that would be great thank you um sensitive times at that topic and obviously the impact it had on the education community in fact we have a regular programme of engagement with our headteachers and system leaders and we do have offset and DFE due to be attending our meeting in January where we will be progressing that dialogue we wish to come up with a common and consistent approach that's not just for isn't soon but a lines of our risk because we're we're very keen to also benchmark how we're comparing and contrasting with our own local areas so it's not easy but I'd agree with you and I think everyone would agree that progress has been made from a national framework with an off-step so we'll adhere to a local solution but I do really wish to involve my local headteachers in that conversation thank you can I take questions on members of the public yeah my name is Claire Horrell I'm an Islington resident and my daughter has an EHCP my my question really is around the the work that is being done around persistent attendance and what reassurance really you can give us that the parent voice is really going to get heard within that you know I know that you've you've had the call to arms that language is quite problematic really and the sort of implication that it makes that it is somehow you know the parents and the children's fault that this is happening it's not particularly helpful language but I see also from the notes that there is already action sort of happening so the attendance monitors are being appointed and there is targeted support meetings happening in each school so certain stakeholders are clearly already being involved in these conversations around persistent absence but it really is critical if you're really serious about getting to the bottom of this that the parent voice is included and is heard and if you look at the at the tables that you've got in the documents about the really quite horrendous percentage figures of you know particularly vulnerable and disadvantaged groups and the way that that looks with respect to persistent absence within Islington schools it's it's really poor and you know it's absolutely critical that all of those groups as a as a starting point need to be involved in that discussion because you're not going to get to the bottom of this unless you are really engaged with those parents and it's not just enough to you know put a call out and say please come and get involved in this you need to be proactively going out to those disadvantaged groups and making sure that they're involved in this conversation I mean I'm a member of the parent care forum I'm a member of the Sen Parliament and I you know it's been quite a struggle to get involved in these discussions so it really is important that you really engage with parents on this and picking up on a point that Susie just made earlier just quickly about the need for more provision for children with special educational needs you know if you tot up in just the senior school the number of of persistent absences just looking at Sen and EHCP plans you get to 600 children and you were talking earlier about two you know shutting two schools where the role collectively is 250 places so you know I'm not saying that all those 600 are persistently absent because of their need with respect to special educational needs however at the very least you should probably be doing some analysis as to why there is such a high level of you know of absenteeism in those sectors but it applies also to the other groupings that you've got there West islington is significantly worse than both Inner London and England so you know it may be that you've got a place for every SEN child but something's not going quite right I think picking up on the point that you were making Councillor earlier about that you can't just look at who's got a place as a sen child you've also got to look about how these things interreact with one another and persistent absence is surely one of those Claire was was that just a question did you want to do what was your question sorry so my question is how are you going to make sure that you are engaging with parents with particularly in those groups that have been identified as being very hypercentages in the overall discussion and scrutiny of the issues behind persistence absenteeism thank you in terms of just the evidence gathering sessions and you made your comment about attendance mentors they're not in place in school but yet so that's that hasn't happened but they will be hopefully soon haven't gotten exact date so they're not working in the schools as of yet they've just been secured funding for it and we have a parents forum we're organised one and we I know Susie helped in terms of letting parents know but we recognise that that wasn't enough because that was just through word of mouth through Susie so we are planning on having a second session so two sessions on capturing parents voice and that invitation will be sent out to other parents with the forums that the council was familiar with and also word of mouth so there will be two sessions speaking to parents and also importantly capturing the youth's voice so we haven't had that evidence gathering session yet but there is quite a lot of sessions that we have planned to do from now to February to really capture the picture because I appreciate what you're saying it's not just stakeholders that we want to hear from we have a session speaking to youth that are persistently absent and those who have been persistently absent and now are in school and also our expert witnesses as well but Paul if you wanted to add anything to Claire's question please feel free to and then I will bring a meeting to her end thank you chair I think you you seem to have covered the fundamentals there and thank you so much for engaging with the work of the senate parliament and the the parent care forum which is so important parts of our framework of engagement and capturing a parent's voice locally we have the senate park ship board last week which parent care forum representation was made there and the matter of attendance was flagged so we're very keen to make sure that we make best use of the work of initiatives such as the the parent care forum chair we are talking about organising an ascendance summit in the new year for all stakeholders across education health and care voluntary sector parents residents because it's such a key issue for the local area so that will be an opportunity as well to optimise the engagement and the input of parents with voice but absolutely any system that has the voice of parents and the voice of our children and people is actually a richer place for that so we welcome as many opportunities to ensure that their voice is captured and as part of our process thank you all if there aren't no further comments going to ask members to note the report I'm just moving on to the work programme kind of ask members to note the work programme as well if there are no urgent matters or questions I will bring this meet into a close our next meet in a scheduled for Tuesday 7th of January thank you everyone