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Corporate Resources and Economy Scrutiny Committee - Thursday, 5th December, 2024 7.30 pm
December 5, 2024 View on council website Watch video of meetingTranscript
meeting. Please note, we're not expecting a fire alarm test this evening, so if the alarm is sounded, please evacuate the building. I will now ask my fellow members and the officers to introduce themselves, starting on my right. Councillor Jilani Choudhury, Chair of the Wellbeing and Adult Social Care Schooling Committee. Councillor Tricia Clark, Councillor for Junction Ward and Chair of the Environment, Climate Change and Transport Committee. Councillor Jenny Kay, Mildmay Ward, substituting for Councillor Pandell. Councillor Ernestas Jegorovas-Armstrong for Highbury Ward. Councillor Herberstaff for Laycock Ward. Councillor Bashir Abraham for Arsenal Ward. Sir Stanley Richardson, Democratic Services. Thank you. A few formalities. Apologies for absence has been received from Councillor Jackson, Councillor Pandor, Councillor Ozdemir, Councillor Kondoka and Councillor Hyde for Lateness. We hope to be seeing her a bit later on. Councillor Kay has already indicated that she's subbing for Councillor Pandor. Any declarations of interest at all? Yes. So did you get Councillor Jackson's? Yes. Oh, thank you, Jack. I'll get you to this eventually. As far as the minutes of the last meeting are concerned, there's just a couple of matters that I want to deal with before we hopefully formally agree them. At the last meeting, the committee reminded officers of our request for data on our top ten contracts with specific reference to what social value we were deriving from them. I fully accept that there may be some complexity in this data and there may be some commercial sensitivity. But it is disappointing we haven't yet been furnished with this information. And it may be that that is indicative of why we as a corporate body recognize that we do need a step change in our approach to maximizing social value. And I think it probably demonstrates the value of our main scrutiny focus this year. I do want to stress that it's clear to me that both the officer and political leadership have shown a total commitment to the scrutiny and the observations I've just made and not any criticism of them. We had a thorough discussion at the last meeting about the demographics of our workforce and a couple of hours ago we had circulated in advance a paper of information only status to members, which was certainly I think viewed as an attempt to answer at least some of the requests for further information that came out of that meeting. I know that one or two councillors have got some immediate observations on that paper. It's not for formal discussion at tonight's meeting. I'd always envisage that what we would get tonight would be a written update and that that would inevitably generate the need for further information and further inquiries to be made. And it would greatly assist me if after tonight the committee could send in the next seven days any particular additional points that they want explored with the intention that this matter is brought back to committee at one of the forthcoming meetings of the committee. But I want to give an opportunity now if any members of the committee have any immediate observations on the paper that's been prepared. And it was mentioned when I watched back the last committee in preparation for serving at this one and it's mentioned again in this report that for example for IT and digital services much of the reason for the uptick in senior offices is essentially to replace quite a lot of the interims that were working in the department. And that raises the question that of how many of the current senior offices in each department are currently interims which doesn't seem to be in the information that we've been provided. And when I raised that with you chair you did say that you had already inquired about that. It would be really helpful to have that information but not only the information about how many of the senior offices are interims but something that would actually address the change that's described in point 17 on page 2 which would show that there are fewer interims at a very high pay grade that are not chief officers in each department. I hope that's somewhat clear but can I also ask that the information obviously that this only came in a couple of hours ago and I wouldn't want the next bit of information to only come in you know a day or so before the next meeting. So I was hoping that you could request that all information is provided this month. I suspect a more realistic timetable is 28 days bearing in mind we've got the festive break coming up but this committee can only function properly if it has the information in good time. And whilst the relevant lead officer isn't here tonight the relevant executive member is, here's this and I know fully understands why the committee wants this information. And Councillor, I think it was loud and clear what you were asking for but can you follow it up with an email to me which I will forward on just setting out in bullet point form the precise request because I think that's the neatest way of capturing it. Councillor Chowdhury. Thank you. Just showing 2002 adult social care total CO2 to CO4 is a three officer and jump on to 24, 12 when I understood the frontline staff was cut, service was cut. And my, just I would like to ask you to give specific timetable should be, is not this kind of report or anything. We would like to have a full report within time, time scale that they're going, how they're going to address why 3 to 12, it was jump, why 3 to 12. And how they will make the frontline staff more rather than top level staff. And why it was necessary to, this kind of explanation should be here, that why it was jump there. When our frontline staff was cut, our resident not getting proper support, service. And every time we are saying that budget cut, budget because of the, yeah, we should address this one also. Thank you. So I think that was what you requested at the last meeting. As I'm sure you'll appreciate, that will take a little bit of time to compile, but I know that that is something that the team are working on. And again, Councillor Ward is here, and he is, and it will all be minuted and on the record. I'll take Councillor Clarke and then Councillor Jaguars Armstrong. Thank you. As it says in point six under controls and savings, the, you know, getting rid of, not filling vacant chief officer roles means that portfolios will be brought together and reduce the overall numbers of chief officers. But it also means that extra work is being given to certain chief officers. And so I want to know if we could keep, review this situation about how, whether, how the service improves bringing portfolios together and how, is there any sort of, is it compensation or recompense for the chief officer taking over the, the, the other portfolio? Again, I see Councillor Ward nodding and, um, again, we'll have the minutes, but if you could follow it up just so that everything is captured, um, in writing, that would be helpful. And Estes. Thank you, Chair. Um, so just to know that this is, as described, a snapshot, and it's, um, highly incomplete one, and I'm not sure that it's possible to make, um, incisive, um, conclusions from it. As point number one states, um, the records that are held by the council are only for those who are directly employed, um, and it doesn't show any of the posts which have been interim or agency staff. So I think it's quite hard to make any deductions from this if we don't have that complete picture. So, and I'm also quite concerned that we do not hold those records for staff which would be under the councils, not necessarily direct employment, but, um, kind of payroll indirectly. I think there's quite a lot to unpick, and we have had the barest time possible to unpick it. Um, I'm genuinely grateful for, um, the office team for at least providing this, because it is a framework for where we go, um, next. But that is all that it is, and, um, I would really be helped. I'll be doing my own look at it in detail, um, but if members can email me, then I can put it all together. We're capturing what we can, um, in the minutes, but, um, I suspect with a little bit more time, um, more will become apparent about what is there and what isn't there. And as I often say, the most interesting things in any paper is often what's not there, rather than what is contained within it. Those, um, riders, and one other, um, matter that I want to touch upon, that in relation to the Borough Sanctuary Grants Programme and Access Hubs, Councillor Chapman will be coming back in March, and that will be when we will have the reports back on those topics. Can we agree the, um, minutes of the last meeting? Thank you. Um, next item, um, Chair's report. Uh, we have had two visits in respect of the Progressive, uh, Procurement Scrutiny Review. Uh, firstly to, um, Outlandish, then to Fashion Enter, which took place on the 20th of November. Um, we also, um, had on Tuesday a, um, virtual session of this, um, committee's, um, scrutiny function, um, where we had presentations from Warden Forest Council and Westminster, um, Council. So, Sam and A and I will put together some detailed notes of the, uh, sessions for when we come to, um, agree on scrutiny, uh, recommendations. I want to put on record my thanks to Polly Robbins at Outlandish, Beth Davie Day at Fashion Enter, uh, for making us so welcome as a committee, and providing us with some real insight into two very different community-based organizations that work in partnership with Islington to provide social value to our community. And I also want to thank Joanna Dahlgren and Adam Sargent from Warden Forest and Natalie Evans from Westminster for their thoughtful and inspiring presentations on what their local authorities are doing. Some clear themes are emerging around how important embedding a culture of maximizing social value is within a local authority, around how good authorities have a clear plan for what they want, uh, by way of social value. Um, and also, I think, there is a clear sense of the role that local authorities can play in brokering and building, um, connections within the community, including working with local authorities. So we're, I think, as a committee, getting a real sense now of the, um, social value landscape, and that will inform our thinking when we come to, um, our ultimate recommendations. We're planning another, uh, virtual, uh, session and visit. Uh, Salmon A has circulated an email asking for dates. Can you get back to, uh, Salmon A on that? And then, finally, um, a reminder from me, um, of the joint session of Councillor Clark's Environment Committee with Abtems Water on the 23rd of January. Next item on the agenda, um, is public questions. And, um, Councillor Kaye. Um, I just want to say that, that there's some residents here from my ward who I know are going to ask some questions. Um, and, uh, in the past, when they've attended committee, I've sat in the benches. So I'm going to sit over there for this item and then come back to the committee with your... I fully understand why, as a ward councillor, you're wearing a slightly different hat here. So, um, I have no difficulty with that, um, at all. Um, working on the basis of who are the faces I don't recognise, I suspect it's, um, you guys in the front row there. Um, just, and I hope you saw my email, um, this afternoon, just a little bit of guidance on public questions, um, are at our discretion. Um, it may well be that, um, we are not in a position to provide answers and it is a meeting of the council in public, not a, um, public meeting. You've probably got the flavour of it just from, uh, what we've been doing so far. Um, but, um, as you're here, I will, um, certainly allow a public question. So, Flora is yours, and if you can press the mic first. Yeah. Um, so, yeah, obviously what you've been talking about already kind of rings true with us already, because with the experience we've had, there's a lot of chiefs, not enough Indians. I feel like there's a lot of people getting promoted when maybe not necessary. But anyway, here we are. Um, we didn't want to be back here today, having previously been to two meetings. Um, we've been invited by Councillor Jackson to come to two meetings of the Housing Scrutiny Committee. I'm sorry, I forgot to put my glasses on. I can't see. Okay. Um, in April and May, nothing has changed since. Even coming to this meeting was difficult. We tried to come last time and were told to come today. Then today we were told there wasn't much time for us. This is not what a council that is serious about engaging residents acts like. So, an update is that Parkview new homes are still not completed. Planning permission was granted in 2017. It's taken seven years so far to build 31 flats. Even on the website it says that it's going to be finished in June 24, which before that was January 24, and before that was the summer of 23. We've repeatedly asked how much these flats cost to build. We've still not been given that information. And we asked that at a scrutiny meeting twice. Um, and we still haven't been told how much the flats cost. And I think we deserve to know that information. Um, we know that millions have been wasted on other schemes, but there seems to be no accountability. All the managers that were there in 2017 are still there now, but have either been promoted and there's more, but not people that want to respond to us. Um, most of the RTRA are council tenants. We are all natural supporters of the Labour Party and of social housing. Most of us work in the public sector also. I work in an Islington school and I know the situation with homelessness and the overcrowding. That's why we're so appalled at how ineffective the new build team is. We used to think that Parkview was especially unlucky, but after the paper wrote up our stories, we've been contacted by other residents who all have a similar story. At the last meeting we attended, you heard from our neighbour who has mobility issues. About the constant issues with access, unresponsiveness of the new build staff and the real world consequences of ambulances, deliveries and fencing that have caused injuries. She has had to go and stay with family along with other residents because of the situation. We really thought that after we came and had apologies from Councillor Ward from never visiting, things would change. He came once, we never heard from him again. We had to learn from the papers that he no longer had the new build job. We never heard from the next cabinet member and now there's apparently another new one. There's not been a single bit of communication from the new build team that hasn't had to be dragged out of them. To get any sort of response we had to go through the complaint system, they're not even responding to Councillor Kaye's emails. Now we have a new team on site to start Capital Works. They seemed horrified to hear what the new build team have put us through and said they couldn't get replies from them either. We also believe that the fact that it's not been completed yet and we've also just learnt today that there's a new site manager as well that we didn't know about. Just the communication, the complaints response that we've had is really, really blanket and it just sounds like it's just come from somebody in new build team that hasn't been in communication with us whatsoever. It's really, really frustrating and the response from the complaints is really what we would need you guys to look into. Like I don't see the point in coming to scrutiny meetings if it's not going to change anything. So, distilling that down and thank you for expressing with such clarity your concerns. I'm just trying to think of the best way practically to answer the questions. Very valid points raised around the whole complaint system. We're going to be moving on to the next agenda item on complaints very shortly, which I'm sure will be of interest. I think probably the best way forward would be if there could be a written response given to you and I'm going to, I think, ask for it within 14 days. That seems to me a reasonable timeframe for it. I'd like to have sight of that written response before it goes out so that I can have a first look to make sure that it is at least endeavouring to answer the concerns. Some are operational and are probably best dealt with by the operation, but some are within the remit of this committee because they deal with the overall policy around new build. Would that be an appropriate way of dealing with it? Because there's just not an officer here tonight with the in-depth knowledge of the Parkview project to be able to give you a meaningful response. And I suspect platitudes are not what you're after. I think, because I don't understand if this is the committee that deals with the new build, why are they not here? Is it just apologies? It's because we have set agendas. There are specific meetings where the new build team would be attending. The agendas, certainly our work plan, is published in advance. And new build is a little bit of an anomaly. So, logically, you would think anything to do with housing ought to be going to what is now the Homes and Neighbourhoods Committee was the Housing Committee. But because of the particular financial and operational aspects of new build, that part sits here. We, and I'm perfectly happy to say this in public, the structure of the committee, this is the first year of this new structure, it's very much a work in progress. And I think all the time we're finding, actually, certain things sit more neatly in other committees than the committee that they are in. I will discuss with Councillor Jackson whether it's better that you come to his committee or to this committee. He was the one that told us to come to this one, I think. I know Councillor Ibrahim wants to come in. Sorry, I was just trying to come up with some solutions, because I think, I'm really sorry to hear about your experiences. It was more of a question for you, Chair, because I definitely think you should take us up on getting a response within 14 days. Do you know, and I don't have it to hand, but just to allay some of the concerns that the residents have said, do you know you or Sam and I are aware of if and when new build are coming to this committee? And that could be a choice between getting a written response within 14 days, but coming to have your voice heard when we're scrutinising them as well. I think, obviously, we've had a response from the complaints system, and it's clearly just a blanket response that they've got from someone in new build that hasn't. I mean, we don't know who they got their responses from, but it definitely wasn't complaints. They didn't investigate it. We don't feel like they've investigated. We feel like they've put their questions to someone in new build, and they've just had a really, really... If I may... The information in the response from complaints is essentially all of the inaccurate and obsolete information that precisely formed the basis of our complaint. And they've repeated that to us and then told us that our complaint isn't upheld. And all jokes aside, I genuinely wonder whether someone has used an AI like ChatGPT to just generate a response, because as Sarah said, it doesn't seem like someone engaged with the question, let alone answered it. And that's just... That's just even more frustrating. So it's like the whole seven years has been so frustrating and really upsetting and a massive upheaval. But then to not even get someone from the complaint system to be like... Because it's not unfortunate. I'm sorry, my house was underpinned. We've had residents in bits over it, and they're like, well, unfortunately, you know, a new build can be a bit of an upheaval. It's not. It's not an upheaval. It's an absolute disaster. And for complaint... You feel like if last resort, you go to the complaints, and then you get that kind of response back. You just... Like, we've just defeated. Like, we don't know what else to do, which is why we're here. So, what I suggest is forward me the complaint. You've got my email, I know. I would be greatly assisted by the... If you've got on your phone what you read out to the committee, I'd like to see that. Complaints, absolutely the remit of this committee. I want a proper response within 14 days. That, I think, is what the committee would expect. But I always like having concrete examples of where there might be issues. And I say there might be issues because, of course, I haven't heard from the complaints team who may have their own side of the story, if I put it that way. But then we are looking at NewBuild as part of the performance report on the 30th of January. Welcome to attend then. And it's one public question, effectively, per item. I will discuss with Councillor Jackson the best way forward. Because I think the complaints part falls very neatly within this committee. There are other aspects that probably fall more neatly in his committee. And when the various chairs of Scootney meet to discuss how the new system is working, I think this really does highlight that there needs to be, I think, one committee that deals with NewBuild. And it probably ain't this committee. But the complaints, if you can send that information to me, I'd greatly appreciate that. And then I can get things moving. I am going to now move on to the next item on the agenda, which is complaints. So, not, I stress, Housing Ombudsman complaints, but... ...Ombudsman. And we have Councillor Ward and Manny Lewis to present. So, thank you, Chair. So, this committee has heard this example I'm going to give before. But I'm going to give it again tonight, because I think it kind of sums up exactly the journey that we have to go on. It completes. There is an awful lot done, but there is an awful lot to do. And what sums this up is a piece of case work that ended up in my inbox. But it was a very, very simple thing from a resident. I just want this thing done on my estate. In the end, after two or three emails to said service about why can't this thing be done. The eventual answer that came back was, I'm really sorry, that's not our team. I'm trying to push the other team into doing it. But we have done that and it doesn't work. So, tell you what, can you please complain about said other team? Then it will get done. For me, that is the heart of actually what's happened here. Because although the actual Ombudsman report was about the length of time that it took to get complaints processed, the fundamental problem was that things were becoming complaints in the first place. And we were getting so many complaints in the first place. And we have made significant progress. But ultimately, this is about culture. This is about how we run the council, how teams are trained, and how we work together and don't work in silos. And that it's been something this committee has discussed many, many times. This work has been done, but there's an awful lot to do. There's been an awful lot of stuff done since the Ombudsman report. Enhanced governance, a new complaints board, a new complaints management system. There's been an awful lot of training, which is very, very key to this, and actually training on kind of handling inquiries. Just some very, very simple stuff is really, really key to this. And just new training on vulnerability and working with residents who are vulnerable as well. As well as that, there's just been some lots of kind of more safeguards into the system. New head of service and director sign-off for complaints responses at stage one and two. New director of complaint improvements plans. And a new central complaints team. And that's, I think, the other part of the problem is services shouldn't be marking their own homework. So I could rhyme off all the stats, Chair, but it's all in the report. The point I really want to fundamentally make is that this is about culture. And although we've come a long way with the training and the systems, there is a long way to go. And as you probably know, Chair, this has been, along with the resident experience side of things, this has been a large part of what my focus has been for the last year. So I really welcome the scrutiny on this. And I'll hand over to Manny for any further points. Thank you, Councillor and councillors, for inviting me along to the committee today. I think, I mean, I just want to emphasise and reinforce what Councillor Waters just said. There has been a lot that's been done to improve the complaints process, but we recognise there's a huge amount more that needs to be done. And for me, a clear part of that is ensuring we put ourselves in the residents' shoes when it comes to looking at issues and ensuring appropriate responses go out in time and of high enough quality. I was scribbling down frantically as residents were talking here, so I can take that back to speak to my colleagues about some of the issues that have been raised today. But as I said, I think, you know, just to confirm what Councillor Waters said, we know that a lot more work is still needed to be done to improve the way we respond to our resident concerns and use that information to learn and improve our services. I'm going to go to Councillor Staff first, because she's notified her question in advance, and then I will take Councillor Jaguar for sound strong. Great. Thank you very much, and thank you to our residents as well for your question. It's quite a, it's a light one in a way, but what I've noticed through going through here was a little bit of a pattern of hopefully just somebody overlooking something, but where information wasn't given, for example, relating to universal credit, guidance wasn't followed, protocol wasn't followed. It's good to see that in the learnings, but my question with it is, number one, can you give us insurances that that won't happen, that we're not here again next time out, seeing the same problems where guidance wasn't followed or a pattern of behaviour in that sense, not knowing that information should be given as a statutory duty. And the second question is, how exactly are you going to, where there needs to be updated guidance, I appreciate legislation changes quite rapidly, so how are you going to be looking at that, updating that, improving teams, you just said about not marking your own homework, what training will be given to ensure that anyone who's coming into the team, whether they're new or if they've been around for a long time, are able to give the information that actually residents, like we just heard, actually need or require? Thank you. I'll bring Manny in the second, but just to say, firstly, I think that's a really good point to highlight. We have to hold our hands up here, because there were staff who were trying their best and simply weren't fully trained on different procedures and what you had to put in. And I think we all know that in our own case work, quite often an inquiry is not just about one thing, it's about two, three, four, five things. And if you don't get it right first time, and answer the query fully first time, it's going to come back. And I think that's where some of that stuff comes from, of, well, you've answered this bit, but not answered this bit. So just to say, this is exactly why training is forefront of the learning here. But I'll bring Manny in for more details. Absolutely. Thank you for that. Just to pick up on your first point, as I said in my introduction, learning is really important to us. It's a vital part of what we're doing. And Councillor Ward briefly mentioned a directorate complaint improvement plans. So one of the changes that I've introduced is that every directorate now has to go through the complaints, has to look at the trends, and has to bring an improvement plan to the complaint board. This is a new complaints board, and that complaint board is responsible for ensuring that that action, whatever they say they will do, is going to be taken. That's an important change that we've introduced, which moves the owners onto the services who are actually providing that service themselves. That is backed up with the head of service and direct sign-off now, ensuring accountability at that level, and to make sure that our staff and our officers are happy with the responses, the quality responses that are going out. But the other thing is just to add to what Councillor Ward has said. It's training, training, training. So we've just undertaken a massive training program for all of our staff involved in investigating and responding to complaints. That is something that my team actively monitors to make sure that if we do have any additional new staff coming in, they receive the appropriate training as well. But that's just part of what we're doing. Thank you, Chair. So first and foremost, I think a lot of hard work has gone into making sure that 100% of the recommendations that were made that have been implemented now. So I think well done and a huge amount of work. Apart from kind of procedural things of how staff operate, there are some topical areas that came up as well. So one of them was looking at blue badges, and there were quite a few cases which involve children as well. So it would be good to know if there's anything specific that we do, especially when it comes to dealing with complaints that involve children, potentially looking at the safeguarding perspective. And one of the kind of things that came, and my last question if I can, one of the things that came from the Housing Ombudsman report, which was extremely critical, which mentioned about how we as a council say sorry to residents, and that it's personalised, it's sincere, it uses people's names because there's been tracking going on and dialogue. So it would be good to know whether the same thing is implemented for the social care as well. Thanks for those questions. And you're right, there are trends that we pull out, not only of the Ombudsman feedback that we get, but also all stages of the process. So in terms of the blue badges, I can quickly talk about that. We work with Parking Service to look at the blue badge situation and to understand what changes need to be made. And as a result of that work, additional stock are brought in. The service itself was reorganised so that our residents can have their assessments undertaken faster. And we are much more responsive in how we deal with these issues and the complaints themselves. And similarly, with children's services, we've actually pulled out the trends, which we've discussed with our children's colleagues. We've looked at the blue causes. Many of them are about decisions that have been made. And there's now dedicated resource in that area to ensure that our complaints responses are of appropriate quality and prevent further escalation. But again, for me, it's about the learning, what we learn from that, and how we feed that into service improvement and development. And that links to the improvement plans I was talking about. Sorry, just to clarify. Thank you for those responses. But that last one that asked about in terms of how we apologise. So, again, if it is upheld in the last email, does it come from a director? Does it come from a chief executive? Is it signed off by that individual who's in post? Or does it feel something that has been automated potentially by AI? So where along that spectrum are we? We're certainly not along the lines of AI. That's not something I encourage. I'm actually, I think I've told this group at this committee before, I'm a huge fan of AI, but we're not there yet. So these complaints, you are right. And this links back to what I was saying, putting ourselves in the shoes of the residents. For me, one of the things that I actively encourage and promote across the service is to ensure that we provide an appropriate response that takes into account what the residents told us. And I'll give you an example of one that I actually wrote at one of the weekends. And it was actually in response to a stage one. So a resident had complained to us that they were unable. They worked from home. They had a small child. They had an ongoing leak. The scaffolding had been up for ages. And I read the stage one response. And I found it disingenuous and cold. And that is something I picked up as part of the stage two response because I held it immediately. And the response that I wrote back and I used as an example was taking into account that individual's needs. I'm sorry that your work has been affected. I'm sorry that you were put in a position where you struggled to look after your own child. And I'm sorry about the impact that this has had on you. And that is something that we've actually used as part of the learning, how to write a good complaint response. But it is something that I'm looking at as we go through because I've got very clear ideas of what a good response is and what it isn't. And not apologising to a resident and not taking into account their individual situation isn't a good response. Just on your other point, Councillor, about whether it should come from the chief exec or the corporate director who should come from, we don't actually have a policy on that. But the committee do have ideas on that. We're happy to hear them. On that it strikes me that it should be proportionate to the nature of the complaint, which is what my question is about really. So I just want to, there was one complaint in particular where there was a compensation amount of over £13,000 and that raises a few questions for me. In terms of the complaint, what is the process when we're at that kind of level? And to me, presumably, there's a huge amount of learning given the depth of the issue there. And do we treat all of them the same when we're sort of doing our learning lessons? I mean, it doesn't always follow the more money, the more learning. But I just think this sounds quite egregious. And a senior manager sent a written apology. I think my, I mean, it just, I don't know all the ins and outs, obviously, but this feels like this needed a really big response when you compare it. I can see some of the other things were difficult and the complaints are upheld and that's fair, but this is sort of in a category of its own in the documentation. And then, I guess this isn't a question for you, but just to raise the wider committee. I'm just conscious of where we're up to, temporary accommodation and bed and breakfast, and how can we be assured we're not going to be sitting here with more of this nature, given what is happening in our borough with that? Not because of, not necessarily directly because of the council, but we just know what the funding settlement is like currently from central government and the problems we're facing. And I'm just concerned for other people in this situation and how we're helping them as well as then, you know, we should be helping them not end up here and the financial impact. I think there's two parts to this. Firstly, there's just a practical part. What scares the life out of me on this complaint is prolonged B&B stay. Now, B&B should be nightly booked, last resort. And, you know, we're very, very good at buying up new homes in the borough to use as temporary accommodation. And the very fact that it just went on as long as it did shows that it's really sad and it shows the cracks in the system within our housing team. So that's the first part of it. But I think you're absolutely right. Like, this level of seriousness requires, you know, a level of response that's also serious. It should be director level. And hence we've got some of the new safeguards where complaints do get checked at director level. I don't know if Manny wants to add to this. I think Councillor, I mean, you've covered it extensively, but, I mean, I can tell you about this complaint, and I can tell you what happens now. So every single complaint that's upheld at stage two, and by the Ombudsman, either of the Ombudsman is now actually discussed in this case at the directorate delivery group. The senior leaders review it. They look at the learning, and more importantly for me, they look at how we can actually avoid this type of situation happening again. I was at one of their meetings every day. I heard exactly how they were discussing these, and these are taken seriously. Yeah. And as someone who's just had a report from the Housing Ombudsman regarding one of my cases in a housing association, it took a year and a lot of agony and a lot of, just a lot of work into getting the Ombudsman's report. And the good thing about the Ombudsman's report here is the level of scrutiny and the level of, you know, the pushing the council to improve. But I just want to say, each one of those cases, there's a lot of agony behind each one. We've heard from residents today. You know, residents tonight. You can just hear the stress that this is causing people, our residents. So I welcome this report. And my question is about what is the timeline for actually dealing with these complaints now to cut short the agony that residents are going through when they get to this stage? I mean, I can tell you very quickly, I mean, one of the things we've been concentrating on is ensuring that we provide prompt responses to our residents. I'm pleased to say that at stage two of our complaints process, 98% of our complaints now are responded to within our 20-day deadline. That's considerably up from where it was even just a year ago. And it's something that I continue to drive within my team. It's something that I'm driving also at the earliest stages. Because I do believe that many of these complaints only escalate because of the amount of time that is taken to respond to. And that's why I'm focusing much of the work that I'm doing at the earliest stages. Before a complaint becomes a complaint, I think there are opportunities to resolve the concerns of the residents and certainly at stage one. So my view is once it starts escalating, it's often too late. We should have dealt with it for ages ago. But that's where I'm focusing my efforts at the moment. Thank you, Chair. So you're saying 20 days, is that what you're saying? 20 working days for stage two, 10 working days for stage one. And thank you for that, Chair. I had two questions. The first one, I think, leads on quite helpfully from something that Councillor Hyde raised, which is around this compensation. Because I noted in 22, 23, we paid out about just shy of 10,000. It's 9,660. And there's some commentary here, which is really relevant. And one of the things that this committee does is look at kind of the financial resilience of this council. And we're going through, and we'll be going through a budget process. And it says here, compensation payments are funded directly by the service responsible for the complaint, creating an in-year budget pressure for services. We're having to make incredibly difficult decisions. And as you can probably imagine, and directorates are having to make those as well. And I'll be honest, you know, an organisation of our size will make mistakes. But, you know, I would love us to get to as close to zero as we could. And one thing I would request through the chair would be useful as a, just for reference, if we can get some trends in, because it seems we've only got 22, 23 and 23, 24. It will be useful to see, I can only go by, as you said, there's an anomaly here in that we had to pay out that 13,650. It will be useful to see if we've had any of those kind of big, big numbers previously. And so I don't, I defer to the chair of how, you know, I don't want to be too onerous, but it will be useful just to see maybe the last four years. But what are we doing in, like, is there anything else you could tell us about that conversation? Putting aside, I wouldn't want you to, I can see there's a very specific case around this really big five figure. But, you know, what is the average amount that we give in compensation? Is there, you know, I'm really trying to delve into kind of some of those trends. Is it in one particular directorate? What more can you tell us? And in your answer, please tell us what you're doing in terms of doing some of those challenges if they're primarily coming from the environment directorate, for example. What conversations are happening at that level to kind of make sure that we're then keeping those budget pressures low in that directorate? Can I add another question? Sure. Thank you. I mean, excellent question. You're right. I mean, compensation is an issue. And I would love to get us to a point where we don't have to be put in a position where we pay compensation. In terms of average, I think the compensation levels very much depend on the type of complaint that we get coming in. And what we use is the Ombudsman's own guidance on issuing complaints. They have a sliding scale, you know, the least serious at one end of it, which could be as low as £25 up to the figure that we've given you. In terms of which directorate has the highest compensation payments, I think, you know, that's linked to which department has the highest caseload for us. And that would be housing. Housing generally about 85% of the complaints that we see for various reasons. One of them, for instance, being repairs. But I can certainly provide that breakdown of information to give you a much more detailed response to that. I can certainly share that with you. Thank you. Yeah, it would be good. If we could just maybe get the last five years of compensation. Yeah, and if all the reports are publicly available, because of their nature, I think it would probably be quite useful to have the Housing Ombudsman and the LGSCO reports. If we can just circulate them around to the committee. Yeah, that would be very helpful. That would be great. Councillor Charlton. Sorry, I just had one follow-up. We're running short of time, so I'm going to go around. Then we'll see where we are time-wise. I might come back to you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's really nice. I've got two questions. One is, just as a vulnerable people, I work for the vulnerable people. And the difficult thing is making complaint, because they are very frightened to make any complaint, because they think they may lose their service and everything, yeah. And also, the difficulties nowadays, we are more digitalization, yeah. I think if you go to 80% of our older people, they don't know how to use the mobile, yeah. What kind of support do you provide them to make the complaint? And if someone makes the complaint, yeah, then how you can go through, because older people, they can't. Because if something comes back, they don't bother to go, if it's the right report or not, yeah. This is my first question. What kind of support and what monitoring system is there for the older people? Second thing is, like, you know, when older people, I saw one report, but I can't mention it, because of data protection, yeah. When a complaint was made, yeah, the report came blaming someone else, yeah. But question is, older people responsibility is in adult social care. Any vulnerable older people living in Eastlington, this Eastlington adult social care responsibility look after them, yeah. If any housing decision or any organisation, anyone, yeah, did not perform the job, what they're supposed to do, you give the report that this is from the, because of the data did not do the job, what did you do as a social worker or social service? You have to challenge them, because it is your job to look after the older people. And how, as your team, yeah, doing, monitoring this kind of situation? Thank you. Can I come in first? Just to say, on your first point there, Councillor Chowdhury, I mean, we still do get an awful lot of complaints that are just handwritten letters. There's no, you don't have to email a complaint, you don't have to use any kind of technology. In fact, quite a lot of our complaints are old school, just handwritten letters, that's the first thing. In terms of, I mean, we don't offer any specific support to help people to do complaints. I mean, what, I mean, I'd rather focus on the support required to make sure there wasn't a need for a complaint in the first place. And that's what we've been working on with the call centre and with making sure we've got our hubs, in-person hubs at Manor Gardens and also in the south of the boroughs to make sure people have got somewhere to go where they can actually see someone one-to-one to need to make a complaint. So there isn't specific support for someone to make a complaint. On your second point, absolutely, if there's a housing association or any other external body at fault, it is our job to advocate on behalf of that person. I'm sure Manny can add to that. I mean, absolutely, just to pick up on the first point that you said, there is no requirement for complaints to be put in bite into us. So if somebody struggles digitally or otherwise, we can and will take complaints over the phone and actually in my hubs as well. In terms of the second point, one of the things that we've added as part of the improvements or one of the changes we've made as part of the improvements is we've added a vulnerability aspect to our complaints form so that residents can tell us if they struggle with any specific needs, any specific needs that they need help with. We're actually actively asking residents so that we can support them. In terms of following up again, you know, we will review every single complaint that comes through. Services will do it. I've been working very closely with adults and children to ensure that they respond appropriately to complaints. And it's something that we actually review as part of the complaint board as it comes up as a trend. So I think, you know, in terms of monitoring for the stages, we keep a very close eye on what's going on just to ensure our residents receive an appropriate response as quickly as possible. So for the first time in over 10 years, I've started making complaints myself when I don't hear back from teams over the last few months. And so now I can see what the responses are like when they're addressed to me and like what emotional response I get from them. And someone's already mentioned this. Sorry, I think it was Councillor Hyde, but the lack of a name is tricky. Um, I think that part of the issue with stage one is that it goes to the team that you're complaining about. They rescind you the response back. So there's no investigative function as such, or it doesn't feel like there is, which I think isn't what most people would consider a complaint system to be. Um, so I don't know if the response that I've had, all my complaints do get upheld, but I'm not sure what that does for me. Um, because obviously, I'm pretty sure I'm not eligible for compensation. Do let me know, Manny, if I am. Um, but all of my complaints just say, like, I'm, this is the most recent one and it's the one about, uh, Parkview, which is why I, uh, brought it up. Um, it just, most of the complaint response is, um, talking about how they didn't get back to me in time. So apologizing for the delay in dealing with my complaint and then saying they still haven't had the response back that they wanted to from the new build team. Although it sort of seems like it's been written by the new build team. Basically, it just feels all quite surreal and maybe somewhat farcical. Um, and I'm just not even really sure what to do now because there's nothing substantive in it. I mean, I can escalate it to stage two. I think I've got another one on the same estate that I've now escalated to stage two. But I guess it goes back to our, like, what is this process really for? Because I have spent the entire time that I've been a counselor telling people to not go through the complaints process. I will get things sorted out for them quicker. Now with certain teams, I can't get responses from them. I can't sort it out anymore. I don't know what to do. Um, and I think back of all the people that I've, like, helped. Maybe I've been a bit quicker than the complaint system would have. But I can't get them compensation. So have they just not gotten, like, to what extent there's this conflict between, our role as counselors and case work that we get and this kind of parallel complaint system? And I know that's quite a big question, but it doesn't feel like we've resolved it by, um, putting this investment in. Um, if you're getting complaint responses, which are clearly just copied and pasted from, uh, the response from the service themselves, please send those to me and Manny, because that's absolutely not what should be happening at all. Um, and yeah. It's like, for example, this, it says yours sincerely is LinkedIn Council new homes development. So it's from them. Like that is the point of the stage one complaint, I think. Yeah. The whole point of the new changes is that directors shouldn't be marking their own homework at all. So if that, if, if that's happening and literally the, what the wording hasn't even been changed from a previous response, then that's something that we need to nip in the bud, uh, immediately. Manny, do you want to do that? Yeah. I mean, I would just reinforce what you just said, Councillor Ward. If you could actually send those, um, to the two of us, Councillor will contact me often, uh, when he has, um, cases sent on to him. I will look into that, um, and then provide a much more specific response once I know the, the, the case history in the background. Um, I'm going to bring Councillor Ibrahim, um, in, and then I will, um, have one question and briefly sum up things. Thank you. And it neatly follows on from what Councillor Cage has said, because it's one of the things I am going to publicly commend, uh, Councillor Ward on is, is a shared ambition of ours that we don't want residents to communicate with this council through the complaints process. And I'm, and I'm very, uh, I've been a member of this committee for, I think at least three years now. And, but I'm finding that residents still, as a councillor, I feel like I've failed my residents because they will rate, they will raise, they will contact the council and see, see me in and they won't get a response and it will be months. And then I didn't take it up as case work. And I, as a councillor did not get it. And they said, Oh, don't worry, councillor, we're going to make a complaint. I, um, I have a duty to ideally protect the reputation of this council. And I'm still finding in 2024 that residents feel the need to make a complaint in order to, and it's a specific service area, by the way. And this is twice as to how it will happen. And I've got two residents who are keen to complain. They haven't made a complaint. And I think that's because they have a great councillor in myself. Um, but jokes aside, I think I'm just very, very disappointed that some of the stuff that I think councillor K is referring to is shared across different wards because I sit here in front of you today and say, I have, I have seen this with my own eyes. So something still isn't working council award and money, and I'm, and I'm wondering what that is, because we may need to look at, and it may be something that we take away and look at how that case work function interacts with the complaints process. But residents are still finding that they need to make a complaint in order to get the most basic engagement with the council because their emails will go unanswered for not days, but it will be weeks and months. And I'm happy to share examples of that. So what more could we be doing to give residents the service that Islington should be providing to them? I mean, the first thing to say is, I'm completely with you on this council, Ibrahim. There is nothing worse than actually, as a councillor, our job is to help people. And the lowest point that we can sing to as councillors is to have to, to have to tell someone, oh, can you, can you make a complaint? Because it's just, we, it's our job to help people and to get, to get to the right officer, to get, get it resolved. I've done it myself as well. And it's only when I've literally been the point of giving up and said, right, make a complaint. I want to get to a point where we never, ever have to do that. And I'm, I mean, I'll, I'll say publicly, I'm really, really sorry that this is still happening. I wanted to come to this committee tonight and say, well, that's not happening anymore. But it is. And are we allowed to ask what, which, which service it was? Oh, you most certainly can. It is the tree service and the environment team. Okay. All right. Can you send specific examples to, to, to, to, to me, to, to me and to Manny? I think one thing, there's no magic book. I mean, there's no magic bullet, right? But one thing that me and Manny can do is just sit down and go, right, what, what services are worse performing here? What services are councillors literally tearing their hair out and going, you know what, make complaints? Because it's one thing an email being missed, right? It's quite another thing, um, a councillor writing to, a member, an elect member of the councillor writing to a service and not getting a response. How is that still happening in 2024? So, um, me and Manny will take this away and we will report back to the next committee, but I am, I'm completely with Councillor Ibrahim. This is so, so frustrating. So, to wrap things up, two comments, one question. Firstly, building on the concerns of Councillor Kaye and Councillor Ibrahim. Um, over the last 12 months, a new casework system has been, um, introduced, a computer system for councillors. My view is that it has made both the quality and speed of responses far worse than when we used to go through, um, to corporate directors and be able to directly raise, um, matters, um, with them. It simply has created, in my view, a siloed mentality and a tick box mentality of, provided any response out, um, a few days, um, after the 10 day, um, working day deadline, that's okay. I know that isn't the culture that you want, Councillor Ward. I know it's not the culture that you want, uh, Manny, but I'm bound to say that is my experience. It plays into exactly the concerns that Councillor Kaye and Councillor Ibrahim have raised, and I think it really does need a look at. Bearing in mind, we only get involved as councillors when something already has been perceived to have gone wrong by residents. And, frankly, if we are getting involved, that tends to indicate, because we're a filter in the first instance, something is going wrong. So I'd urge you to really give that, uh, focus. Secondly, and it's a link point, and it's just around culture. Um, we all at times go into defensive mode. I know I'm guilty of it from time to time. Um, but sometimes we do make mistakes as an organisation. Nobody's perfect. So much of the case work that I deal with is not so much about the actual substantive issue. It's about the way that residents feel that they have been treated. And can I just reinforce that when you train, um, staff up to deal with residents, one, remember, we are here to serve. If we've got something wrong, admit it. Nothing wrong with admitting, putting out and saying, look, got this wrong. This is how we're going to fix it. And be positive in the responses that we give. Don't talk about what we can't do. Talk about what we can collectively do. Then the question, um, this report is an annual report. We'll be coming back to the committee next year. What should we expect if everything is being done that, um, you tell us is being done? What should we expect to see in next year's report? All right, should we take those issues in turn? Um, on the first issue about, uh, the new case work system. And Manny knows I'm going to say this because we talked about it briefly on, on, on, on, on the way in. Um, I think we've reached a point, and I take no pleasure in saying this at all. I think we've reached a point where we just have to accept that the system is not working. Um, a lot of us here were elected in 2014. And the old school way we were taught to do case work was, uh, email the corporate director. And the corporate director will kind of filter down, um, to the right person. And eventually you'll get a response. Now that system wasn't particularly efficient in my view, but frankly, it's a lot better than the system that we have in place now. And I think that we absolutely have to go back to square one on this, frankly, Councillor, Councillor Wayne. And I would welcome your input in going back to square one. Um, so can you, well, there was a second question, wasn't there? A part, yeah, culture. Um, I, yeah, I said it, I said it at the beginning. Um, systems are one thing, processes are one thing, but culture is at the absolute heart of this. And we're not going to solve this. And the prime example of that is the example I gave at the beginning where I got an email saying, yeah, I'm really sorry. Um, I've tried to push this other team into fixing it, but they won't fix it. So why don't you make a complaint? We just can't have that. Now that's about training. It's about, uh, having the resource. It's about process. But ultimately it's about culture. And we have to change the culture right across the organization. In terms of what you should expect in the report next year. Um, firstly, uh, we're already doing pretty well on, uh, day two complaints in terms of timeliness, but I want to get that at 100%. Um, more importantly than getting the timeliness at 100%, I want there to be far fewer complaints. Because if I'm doing my job and, and on, on the resident experience work and changing the way we do, uh, uh, uh, conversations by telephone and in person and digitally, then there should be fewer complaints. And if we, you know, Councilor Ibrahim gave the example of, of, uh, one service who's not even applying to counselors. If we can change the culture, nip that in the bud, then there should be fewer complaints. So more complaints processed on time, but more importantly than that, many, many fewer complaints. Manny, anything else? Yeah, I mean, I would, I just absolutely agree with you. I mean, and, uh, Councillor, I, I saw the email that you sent, uh, about the system. So, um, which is why we were discussing it as well. Um, and I would actually agree with what you just said, uh, Councillor. Uh, and it's why I actually put in the, uh, covering, uh, paper, um, sort of work that I were actually doing, which centers on culture. Um, to me, my personal opinion, uh, is and has always been, um, feedback from members of inquiries, uh, and feedback complaints is free information. Our residents are taking the time to contact us and tell us what the issues are. And it's our duty to respond to that. So, but for me, I absolutely agree, um, with what you've said about changes to the culture. It's necessary because otherwise this won't work. So that's going to be the focus, uh, uh, over the, the remaining months. Thank you. We are, I'm afraid, going to have to move on because we've still got a, a lot on the, uh, gender. Uh, gender, but we've spent more time. I'm going to take very quickly one public question. Thank you so much. And then, um, it's just the, the, um, apology thing. So we do get the odd apology every now and again, but it's not worth the paper. It's like, well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but, and it's kind of like, don't apologize if you don't mean it. Like, it's just a rubbish apology. So I feel like that would help, like having an apology, but one that's really sincere. Like we, that's a lot of our frustration has been just because people are not, there's no empathy whatsoever. So I'm like, if that is something that you guys are going to change, it needs to be done real quick. Okay. Thank you. My, my one's also, our CRA one is also from the new homes development as well. The response. Yeah. I think loud and clear. Um, thank you for coming, um, tonight. We spent more time on this because it's so important. Um, so the, um, next item on the, um, agenda, and, uh, that is the, uh, scrutiny review, um, a little bit delayed, um, but, um, it's an important topic. So Caroline, do you want to introduce with, uh, Jodie Pilling and, uh, Nikki Ralph? I should say as the team are coming in, we've seen the, uh, presentation and I think the focus for tonight, not what adult social care are doing in terms of the directorate, but very much social value, what you're getting and what your plans are. Thank you very much, Chair. Um, Chair, the committee had asked for various examples of good social value. Um, and as you mentioned at the start of the meeting, you heard this week from Westminster and from Walton Forest, we thought it would be a really useful exercise to demonstrate a, a really brilliant case study, um, of partnership with the adult social care team in the social community that they integrated. Um, I would say that it took us about 18 months, two years of engagement, um, with the service, and I think that to really kind of have a deep approach to social value, it does take that, that length of time. But I'll hand over to Nikki and Jodie, who will explain from a service point of view and from a commissioning point of view, the benefits of that approach. Um, thank you, um, thank you, councillors. So I will, um, skip a lot of the slides because I'm conscious that you have already reviewed those in advance. Just very briefly, um, just to give you a bit of context to this social value example. It's in relation to our new home care service, which launched earlier this year in April, 2024. Um, and it was really an opportunity when we were recommissioning this service to think about, um, the way we commission. So what's our procurement approach going to be? And what's the service model? And through those, um, sort of questions, really looking at how we could embed more social value into the contracts. Um, so our home care framework, just to give you context for future, for the further slides I'll talk to, now consists of nine locality providers, three in each of the three localities. And those nine locality providers are our main providers. They will have the majority of, um, home care packages, the majority of the hours, the majority of the business, um, that comes with, um, that comes with, with the service. And then we have 14 secondary providers who are backup providers. So we don't guarantee them any level of business at all. Um, they're there to support if we need additional capacity or support around particular expertise. So, um, just very briefly, we had sort of four key ambitions for home care in Islington and one of them, um, I'll focus on, um, going forward tonight. Um, so the four ambitions were around improving outcomes for residents, securing capacity within high quality provision, delivering greater value for money. And the, and the focus for tonight is around driving a more inclusive economy. So we were trying to really improve outcomes for residents while also embedding more social value for local residents and our local economy. So in terms of, um, our procurement approach, um, we put into our award criteria, 20% of our award criteria went on social value. And we asked all providers who were tendering to consider, um, five different outcome areas across four sort of themes, um, staff welfare, inclusive economy, a more equal Islington and environment. And we really honed in on giving some specific examples of things we felt were really important, um, um, social value elements in the new, um, contracts. And so I want to focus mostly, I think, of most uses talking to you about the impact that we've seen to date. So the first thing to highlight is that, um, before this new, um, this news, um, feel free to share the slides if you want to, uh, on screen, I'm conscious colleagues have got them. Um, so, uh, before the new contracts were launched, we had two providers that we contracted with, and all our other providers were spot providers. Um, and so now we, we really wanted to create a more diverse market, and we wanted to create more diversity in terms of local providers, but also having more, um, small, medium, um, sized enterprises. And as you can see on the slide, we now have the majority of our, um, organizations are SMEs. Um, we have one VCSE organization, and we have a number of director run organizations. In the previous contract, the two providers that we contracted with were large national organizations. So we've really created diversity in the market. Um, I'm going to move us on. I'm not going to cover the next slide in any detail, but just to highlight that as a result of now having locality providers, providers based in, um, the three localities in the Brough, this enables care to be delivered by organizations based within local communities. And as a result, they can recruit carers that work more locally to themselves, so really benefiting not only, um, the residents, um, drawing on care, home care, um, because hopefully, um, they're, um, going to not be waiting as long for visits. There's going to be less delays and more punctual visits, but also for the workforce being able to work close to where they live. Um, some other key things to highlight are, uh, is around, um, the social value commitments that our locality providers have contributed to. So there were already a number of things we stipulated in the previous contracts, and that was around London living wage, paid travel time, and a range of other things. But actually, for example, the offer of guaranteed hours contracts was in the previous contracts, but actually we didn't go far enough in really, um, making it really explicit what we expected to see from providers. So, for example, the offer of guaranteed hours contracts is very clearly stipulated as a social value commitment that we wanted to see from our providers. Um, a hundred percent of our, um, locality providers committed to guaranteed hours contracts, and you can see between quarter one and quarter two how we've moved from, um, 57% of the workforce in quarter one being offered guaranteed hours contracts to 68% of the workforce in quarter two, and for those, um, uh, staff accepting guaranteed hours contracts, we saw that increase from, uh, 47% of those who'd been offered them accepting it. So that's 27% of the workforce, up to 51% of those that have been offered it, and 36% of the entire workforce. This is a development in, this is, this will be implemented as each quarter goes on. More staff will be offered guaranteed hours contracts, there will be more that will be taking up that offer. Um, so we expect to see those numbers continue to rise. But this is from a starting point of, I would say, with our previous two contracts of pretty much zero people on guaranteed hours, despite the providers saying that they were offering it. What, what offering meant, um, um, uh, I think now we've really embedded it. So actually there's a genuine offer there and genuine support to move people onto guaranteed hours, as you can see from, from those stats. Um, in terms of, um, a key one is around sort of occupational sick pay. Um, that was a social value commitment, um, and six of our nine locality providers committed to pay it, um, and, um, um, hadn't yet implemented it in quarter one. Now in quarter two, we have three of those six, um, paying occupational sick pay, one due to implement in January and two still to confirm with us when they'll be able to implement. Um, and I won't go through all of the lists there, but you can see, um, the improvements that providers are making around social value. Um, two things I didn't highlight on the slides were around union promotion. So all the locality providers, 100% of locality providers have committed to promoting union membership and supporting that. Um, and also I didn't provide information on the number of staff in our locality providers who are Islington residents. The figure is, um, as of the last data that we had is 52%. Given that we're a really small borough, a lot of residents and a lot of staff will not be Islington residents, but they will be residents of neighboring boroughs and still be very local to Islington, um, by the nature of the work as well. And then just to cover a couple of sort of challenges and lessons learned, and I can, um, talk to any more of these, um, if that would be useful. But I suppose two key ones to highlight is that there's a real tension and trade off we recognize, and a lot of work we did in the development of the, um, of the procurement strategy and the decisions that were made at executive. A real trade off between creating a more ethical model of home care and a financially sustainable one. And given the position, um, of council finances and the importance of how we spend the public purse in a balanced budget, um, it was really, really, um, challenging to get that balance right. And the last thing to highlight is that we really want to build, build on the social value commitments that providers have made. But the additional improvements that we want to see will rely on a voluntary buy-in. They aren't social value commitments that providers have committed to in their tender. So anything beyond what they've committed to will be through us working really closely with them, um, um, and showcasing good practice from other providers, other areas to really, um, encourage them to continue to, to offer more social value. I'll pause there, and then I can answer any further questions. Thank you for sticking to the brief so well. Questions. Councillor Clarke, and then Councillor. Um, this is really important to us that we're, you know, procuring in various areas, and so it's really interesting to hear how you, you've procured your more smaller SMEs. Yeah. I just wanted to, wondered how you, you can scrutinise so many little organisations. I'd, I'd be interested in how you keep tabs on them. And it's a little disappointing about the very few of them that are paying occupation sick pay. Because they did, you know, there's six of nine at first, and then it's gone down to three. So I can answer, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Um, I'll answer both of those. So, um, I'll answer the occupational sick pay one. Sorry, I probably didn't explain it correctly. So when the new providers came in, in April 2024, there's a period of mobilisation. There's a period of them building up their business, building up their staff workforce. Um, they may have branches elsewhere. And so they're really having to change their policies around things like occupational sick pay. Um, and really, um, take on more business from Islington, because some of them are new providers. So six providers out of nine committed to pay occupational sick pay. Um, three currently do, with one about to implement, and then another two to confirm their timeline for doing it. So it hasn't reduced in terms of commitment, and we will hold them to account. That's something they've committed to in, in their tender. Um, but it takes, you know, it takes providers a while to implement all of these things. Just, just to add, just to be really clear, part of that is because the council has to build up the volume of work. And as you know, the people we're working with, we, we, we're taking our, our time, if you like, doing that to make sure that those handovers are, um, adequate. So, um, it, once they have the right volume of work, it becomes an affordable thing to do. Question about how you review the more small businesses where you had two large. Yeah. So, although we have two providers that we commissioned, um, with through, um, a block contract, um, we, we then had to spot, um, purchase, which means we went to lots of individual providers when we needed packages of care that those two providers couldn't, couldn't take for whatever reason. So we actually had a, a much bigger range of providers that we worked with previously. So we had, um, over 40 providers, many of whom only had one or two packages, but we had many, many providers that we spot purchased care from. Now that's reduced right down. So, um, on one of the slides, like, I'm very sorry, I don't remember all the stats off the top of my head, but the slide that talks about, um, the percentage of, um, residents and hours that are with our framework providers, um, it's massively shifted things. So most, um, people are being supported, I think it's 80 odd percent off the top of my head who are being supported by providers that are on our framework. So that's nine locality providers and, um, 13, um, 14, 14 secondary providers. So now we have 23 providers. We want our nine locality providers to have the majority of the care. So actually it's nine providers that we're building really strong relationships with. And then another 14 providers, um, compared to sort of a vast array of spot providers that actually we had more still, we still quality assured. And we had a range of ways that we could keep, um, oversight of the quality, um, working with other host boroughs, for example. But actually this is actually enabling us to have much tighter oversight. Thank you, chair. Um, first and foremost, congratulations. Congratulations on the impact that you're having on the market itself. And I think one of the comments that you've made about that you've been able to reshape what that market looks like. I think that's amazing. And, um, sorry. Um, also what's really good is I think from our evidence gathering sessions we've, that we've recently had, uh, one of the things that was talked about was how important it is to keep having that relationship with companies to make sure that they do deliver. And it sounds to me that you've got those structures in place. Um, just when it comes to building that relationship with them and kind of partner negotiations for social value, do you feel that you are empowered to have essentially red lines? Uh, so for example, I think, um, in Islington as a council, um, I find it quite difficult that we work with companies that do not guarantee occupational sickbay. Um, especially when we talk about kind of ethical charter and diversifying our workforce. Um, and again, the same thing about guaranteed hours of contracts. So do you feel like in the negotiations you have that support to say actually without this, this contract cannot just go forward or even if there is, um, a time period to implement things that moves in the right direction? I think that's my first question. I think that's my first question. And then just to throw in very quickly if I can, um, something that we picked up and I think, um, uh, it's been mentioned previously by the executive member, uh, that, um, we don't really ask enough about environment social value. And I know this might seem quite tangential, uh, but every single bit helps. Um, so, um, is there anything that you can got experience of actually asking with regards to that context? Thank you. Um, so in terms of negotiations regarding social value, maybe I'll do the red lines first actually. Um, so because it's social value, it's not stipulated in the contract. So London living wage is that anything that we put into the social value bit where we evaluated that 20%, um, the, what providers committed to and what we evaluated against is what we can hold them to account for. So we can't then say to providers that have not committed to a certain element, for example, occupational sick pay, we can't make a red line there that says you have to commit to that. That hasn't been in their tender. So it's not something we can account for. That doesn't mean to say that we can't really encourage them to adopt it and that we can't share good practice from other providers that have done it, um, and build those relationships and show how beneficial it would be to adopt it. And the benefits it has for retention, for other things that they might be facing as challenges. So we will continue to do that, um, to try and encourage, um, a higher uptake. Um, and I suppose that feeds into the negotiations regarding social value. Um, we obviously, first and foremost, we'll be holding them to account for things that each provider is committed to in their tender. And then beyond that, once those are embedded, we will continue to negotiate and talk about what else they can do, what greater social value they can contribute. Um, and I think that links to the question around relationships with providers. Um, so we have really strong relationships, particularly with our locality providers. We meet with them regularly. Um, we have provider forums. Um, we, we have monthly, what we call transformation, um, meetings with them, where we're constantly meeting with them to learn from each other. They, they, they hold loads of expertise, um, but to really continue to embed the, the model of home care that we want to see, um, which I haven't talked about, um, because it's not, um, the topic today. But we're, we're constantly working with them to, um, develop, uh, them, develop our partnership with them, um, and develop their relationships with other, um, parts of the system. And as part of that social value will be a key conversation. Um, in terms of, did you want to add anything? No. Um, and then in terms of, um, environment, um, in some of our contracts, procurement's environment features more heavily. In this one, it was really important that we focused on staff wellbeing, um, on, uh, different elements of, um, social value. But actually if we can move genuinely to a locality model where we have local staff, um, working local patches and potentially local to the home as well. Then we hope that that will have a knock on in terms of the modes of transport that, that our staff take. So whether that's walking, whether that's buses, um, and public transport. So we hope it will have a knock on in that sense. Um, I suppose the other thing, um, what was I going to mention? Oh, yes, is around contribution. I put in here contribution to staff travel costs. Um, so, uh, all providers have to pay staff travel time and at London living wage. But in terms of supporting the travel costs, um, five providers committed to support with that. And some of that detail is things like supporting with costs and contributions towards bike schemes. Thank you, Chair. It's really good to think like, you know, the report, you're focusing on the local organization to provide a really good thing. Just for, my first question is, within the, all the service provider, you've got it. Do you have anyone has a culturally appropriate provider, specifically, uh, provide a culturally appropriate service? First question. And second one is a social value. Do you have any example that organization, big organization, uh, giving support to the small organization, train them to bid? Or, uh, do any project where, um, from their profit to giving support to anywhere, uh, which can you give us an example of a social value from there? So, in terms of culturally appropriate, uh, we would expect, it's built into the tender, we would expect all our providers to be delivering culturally sensitive, culturally appropriate, um, care. So, that is just absolutely standard. Um, but in terms of meeting very specific cultural needs, we know that there are, um, uh, some people who will only want a male or female worker, um, some people who speak, um, certain first languages and will want, um, a care worker that speaks that language. Or where there's, um, uh, cultural backgrounds, they would like care workers that represent their cultural heritage. Um, and that can be really tricky. So, providers are constantly looking at how they recruit a diverse workforce. Um, fundamentally, every carer should be working in a culturally sensitive way. But in terms of finding, um, for example, uh, carers that speak a particular language, where that's not a common, um, need. Sometimes providers don't have someone that speaks, um, you know, as a Chinese-speaking, um, care worker, for example. Um, so we do have challenges with that, and we're constantly working with, um, providers to develop their workforce to link in with iWork. So, um, we ask our providers to work with our, our in-house iWork team to recruit locally, um, and to address some of those challenges. But it is, it is, um, a continuous piece of work, I think, for our providers. But I would add that our, our backup providers give us, uh, an opportunity to explore more choice. And so that the, and, and that is one of the reasons to have the extra 14 providers. So that then if our locality providers can't find somebody, we can then reach out to those other providers. And that does give us more of a chance. And I think, sorry, I was just going to say the other option for residents is obviously direct payment. So if people want more choice and control around, um, the person delivering their care and support. You know, a direct payment that allows them to, um, and I, I'm saying this knowing that it can be complicated and hard work for residents. But if they choose to take a direct payment and recruit a personal assistant. Then actually, you know, that gives them choice and control of exactly who they, um, who they have as their, their care worker. Thank you for this. I'm, I'm actually geekily really excited about this. So this is great. It's, it's really interesting as well. Um, it's a little bit of a process one, really. And I want to build on what Councillor Clark and Councillor Chowdhury have brought in around where you've put in the lessons learned and the challenges about the needs for additional resource. So from your team, not, not from the kind of organization or the actual sort of provider, is that, does that require extra financial resource? Is it human needs? Um, is it extra time to build this in? Because I appreciate it's quite a big bit of work. So from your perspective, what does it require from, from you? And then the second one was around 0.6 around the significant lead in time is develop collaborations. How much of that, what's the average around that leading time and how much of that would you factor in in terms of planning? Thank you. God, it's absolutely huge, but I see it as absolutely fundamental in the work that we do. I think our home care transformation has been massive. So it's not been a piece of just straightforward re-procurement. We haven't, and we're, we're commissioners. We're not, we don't just procure services. So, um, it has been a massive piece of work to think what we need from this service. It has taken, um, a few years to develop exactly what we need. And in terms of specifically around social value, a lot of time and resource has gone into thinking about, um, what we can ask. Um, what we can ask of providers. Um, so we've done loads of work and the procurement team and, um, the inclusive economy team we have worked so closely with and got, um, so much expertise from. And it's been a great piece of collaboration, um, but it's an awful lot of work for commissioners to, to think about what's needed. Um, and there wasn't any extra resource or any extra money to, um, we, we did it with our in-house very small commissioning team. Um, yeah. And just really to, um, finish off, um, again, going back to the slide challenges and lessons, um, learnt. Um, and it's particularly one, the tension and trade off between the ethical model and the financial sustainable model, not just with providers, but with the council itself. Because we're going to be moving on in a couple of minutes to our finances and there may be a tension there between securing, um, maximum social value and the type of labor force and the type of, um, employer-employee relation that we want to see. But the bottom line of how much it's going to cost us. So I would welcome your views on that tension and the potential impact for the type of, um, ideas that we're all really excited about. Mm. Whether there is a potential downside in terms of the finances of Islington PLC. Um, so we had, it was, it was really tricky, I suppose, thinking through, um, getting that balance right or, and I don't know whether we got it. I think, I think we got it quite right. Um, but I'm, I'm really conscious. We want to go as far as we possible, possibly can with the ethical care charter. We have implemented now every element of it. Um, albeit some of the elements are only with a certain proportion of our, um, locality providers. And the only element that, um, the only element actually that is only, is only with a proportion is the occupational sick pay. Every other element is fully implemented now. Um, and that was the, and that was the trade-off. That, that would actually cost the council, um, a significant, um, extra amount of money. So we, um, in our cost modeling of what our hourly rate should be for, um, home care, we modeled, um, a sustainable rate. We benchmarked. We looked at what we felt was a sustainable fair rate for our providers, but that was also affordable for the council. And if we were to include occupational sick pay in there as well, and to, um, uh, calculate for that, um, if we made it a stipulation rather than social value, that would have cost the council, um, a significant amount of money that we, that the council decided couldn't, you know, justify, um, investing in at that time with, um, obviously the importance of, of a balanced budget. Um, I think what we've achieved there though, because we've done really early engagement with providers. So we did a lot of work for a long time before we went out to tender, really, um, being really clear with the market, what our, um, values were as a council, what direction of travel we were going in, um, and what we wanted to see from our home care providers, not just in terms of their care model, but also in terms of their support for staff and the social value elements. So it came as no surprises to the market when they tendered what was in there. We did a session on social value, um, so we provided them with some support around what we expected, what that meant, um, because it's quite hard to understand that when care providers are delivering social value inherently in the nature of the work to really articulate what is above and beyond that core, um, service. Um, I don't know if that fully answers it, but it is a balancing act. Um, I just added a couple of things. So, um, uh, it, it will be more challenging next year. So we are where we are and it, and it's very positive, but we didn't need to recognize and we all have seen it all over the press, um, and all over social media that the care sector, um, the provider sector is immensely concerned about the, uh, new national insurance commitments that they're going to have to make and, and others. So we do need to be mindful of that as we go forward. Um, and we have to balance that not only with our social value, but with our, um, which fits very nicely with social value is that is our care act duty to have a sustainable market. And actually the two coalesce very well, except when the money is tight, it becomes challenging. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I would just add that I think that's also where some of the time comes into the process. It is, it's very much that continuous dialogue between, you know, inclusive economy, procurement, and, and commissioners about what's affordable and what, what we would like to see and what's really realistically achievable. I think, you know, to credit my adult social care colleagues, I think they've, they've really set a pathfinder in terms of, um, a market shaping contract that sets a standard for other councils. Um, and I think that's, you know, inherent social value beyond the kind of treatment of, of the, the clients who are receiving care and the staff who are working on those contracts. I think Islington has really set a, a kind of high bar in terms of what expectations should be for outsourced services. And as ever, these are difficult balancing acts. It's right that, um, we as politicians engage with those really tough choices. And it's something I think for the, um, committee to think about over the festive break, going into what will be yet another challenging budget process. How we weigh, um, these, um, issues, um, and when we have our discussion on the overarching principles and the scrutiny, I think it's some topic we really need to, um, engage upon. Some brilliant work being done. Um, but I think for it to get to where you guys want to drive it to, there may be financial consequences for the council. And it's where we strike those balances that, um, is uniquely for us as politicians to grapple with. But thank you so much for the presentation and for coming tonight. A lot to think about, um, there. Um, and we will move on now to finances and, uh, Paul and Dermid, I promise next time you won't have the late night shift because it will be the budget, uh, monitoring session. So what goes to plan first on, uh, in the new year, um, but we will cover the budget monitoring first, take questions on that, then, um, onto the medium term financial strategy. Inevitably, there will be some overlap, um, between the two, um, but, um, if we can do the, the short presentations, uh, separately, I think that will help. So, um, if we can kick off with the budget monitoring. Yeah, I like to feel like we're the headline act as well at the end, but, um, so, uh, so, uh, the budget monitoring, so quarter to a sort of financial position for that. So the net position is unfortunately worsened by 3.6 million pounds since quarter one. The main driver for the adverse movement is pressures within temporary accommodation. Uh, services been seeing significant increases in demand and also cost, um, and importantly cost of the accommodation. So the current trend being above our previous expectations. So we, we didn't assume a flat line. We did assume an increase, but it is the exponential nature of both the demand and the cost, which is driving that. Uh, so we're, we're still doing an awful lot and we'll continue to do an awful lot of work around that. And there's lots of discussions going on around the council, lots of, hopefully, uh, from your perspective, lots of visibility around, around those pressures. And we'll be talking about it constantly at budget monitoring and in the, um, budget setting process. Um, so we can better understand that medium term implication. Uh, it is also worth giving some context. So, so we have seen a 3.6 million pound increase, um, overall, most of that is temporary accommodation. Uh, we have about a 5 million pound pressure. Other authorities have had 20 or 30 million pound pressures after growth for the last couple of years. Um, temporary accommodation is going to be the thing that pulls a lot of authorities below section 114 level. So to have a pressure of 5 million, I don't expect really to be saying here and getting any sympathy, but we are extremely lucky for the pressures to be managed down so well to that level. Although it is an absolute critical risk to our, to our finances in the medium term. Um, so looking at lots of ways to, to manage and mitigate that and the full, um, the full autumn MTFS refresh paper talked a bit about the, um, talked a lot about the mitigations for that. Uh, the, the papers at the request of this committee last time, the papers that go to exec, we, we give a summary version here so we can have a high level discussion. So if you want to see those mitigations there in the November executive paper, um, school balances forecast to reduce to 1.5 million pound surplus by year end with 18 schools expected to be in deficit. The forecast for school finances are always generally quite pessimistic, um, but that's not to say it's not a very kind of difficult and worrying position. School balances, um, although it is pessimistic, we do expect them to, to decrease and certainly significantly from where we were a couple of years ago. The impact of phase three of the school reorganization plan, um, will be made next year. So as a result, school balances should stay overall in surplus for the, for the next year, but clearly overall surplus. A lot of schools are in deficit and a smaller number of schools are in surplus. Um, I'll talk more about the budget in the second item, if that's okay. Um, but I think what it does recognize is what the, the government's budget and hopefully the settlement kind of follows through on that. It does recognize that, you know, all authorities are seeing huge escalating pressures, um, around, uh, predominantly temporary accommodation, but also, um, uh, but also, you know, continuing pressures in social care. And actually what temporary accommodation is doing is kind of, uh, uh, taking a bit of the limelight away from adult social care. So that the autumn budget did, uh, give, uh, I think it was 680 million pounds towards adult social care. Uh, the good news for us is that adult social care has moved favorably in the last quarter, which again, you know, all of the favorable movements are kind of dwarfed by the, by the temporary accommodation pressure. Um, I will, um, I will, I will kind of pause there rather than talking necessarily about how we deal with the longer term impact because that will be picked up perhaps in the second paper. Okay. So, I know, I know Council of England wants to come in. There's a point that I want to ask first, and it's really about the progress with savings. Um, when we set the budget, uh, we do so with the, certainly the aspiration and the expectation that we will have a balanced, um, budget and that savings will be, um, delivered. Um, there are, um, I think in particular two rather striking to my mind, um, savings that look as though in this financial year they're going to be undeliverables. Firstly, in respect to the future works, uh, program. Um, secondly, in relation to what I was, I was littering enforcement because that's how it appears, um, in the papers. Um, what I would welcome is an understanding of, um, effectively what the savings were, why we think that they are no longer deliverable, and whether there are in effect savings postponed or savings that simply are not going to be, um, deliverable. So, I'll talk about future works because it's the one that pains me the most, um, because we've put an awful lot into this. And, um, there have been some successes, you know, we do, our offices are now much better suited for hybrid working and we don't need, um, as many workspaces. But, um, and there have been some cost benefits, but, um, as you've picked up on chair, uh, we are way behind on this. Now, for me, this is very much a saving delay, not a saving abandon because there's a huge amount of work has been put into this. Um, in a nutshell, this was all predicated on, uh, the ICB moving from the Laycock building to, uh, Newington Borough Way and Elwood being vacated and redeveloped or used for something else. Um, as things went, uh, along the way, things changed. Um, ICB didn't move to Newington Borough Way and that caused costs. Um, ICB is now taking up the whole of Laycock, which will give us, uh, additional income. Children's are staying at Elwood and Newington Borough Way needs to be leased out. Uh, we need to make progress on Brewery Road, uh, as well. So there's an awful lot of moving parts to this. Um, but this is very much, uh, a saving delay. I'm very, very happy to, uh, keep the, uh, keep the committee posted. But this needs to happen. Um, you know, we are a council which has committed to making best use of our buildings. We do have a lot of buildings. Um, but if we can get to, if we can get to a point where we're just using the town hall, uh, two, and, uh, two, two, two, and Cottage Road, and we're making best use of every other building, then that's where we want, where we want to be. It's where we have to be in the current budget climate. Yeah, um, so the variance relates to the shortfall in the F, in the fixed penalty notice, uh, for, for littering fly tipping commercial, uh, commercial waste. So the income targets that were put in, this was a, a kind of standing start on, uh, on implementing something new. What it has done has resulted in actually less littering. So it is having service, it is having the service impact, uh, whilst not necessarily having the financial impact. The contractor is issuing significant amounts of, uh, fixed penalty notices, probably enough to achieve the income target. But the difficulty is then collecting those fixed penalty notices once they're issued. So this is one of those, uh, examples where actually we're achieving the service goal of cleaner streets, but then there's a financial impact. So, um, how it gets resolved is, is basically looking at, um, looking overall at all of the income generating, uh, activities through enforcement, through within that team, there is a restructure going on within the, within the service, uh, alongside kind of planned, uh, increase in officer enforcement activity. So, so hopefully those, the chain, those changes result in resolving the shortfall in the income. If it doesn't, I suppose we then have the decision to make around actually, although the anticipated benefits don't come in, is it worth still continuing with that course of activity because it is having an overall good for the borough. Uh, so hopefully that kind of sets out the reasons why we're short and, and a path to collect that income. But if we don't collect that income, there's probably a secondary conversation to have. Helpful. Thank you. I will take Councillor Ibrahim, then Councillor Kaye, then Councillor Clark. Thank you. I have, uh, just two very quick questions and I'll ask them at the same time so I can get both of them in. Um, that is the trick. Um, one of them is more a point of clarity and it's, we've heard much about the resident experience. Um, and, and there's three lines here on resident experience overspend. I think one of them is, so the, the first one is around unachieved contact center consolidation saving. And I'm wondering cause it's down as an overspend and, and surely please do give us some context. Cause that, that might just be an undelivered saving. And so love to hear more about that because we've had many great things about bringing some of those contact centers together. And surely we should be saving money. And we've been told we are saving money. But the second thing was around, it's a historic thing. It's around high energy bills. And I, and I was slightly concerned to see that we're still kind of, um, or if I bring it up. Yeah. So it's, um, it's on page. It's, well, it's under other basically in directorates total. And it just says energy costs overspend and it's about 700,000 pounds. And I was wondering if you could tell us, you know, is this a, a, a, a hangover of kind of the, the peaks, um, from, from previous years or has there been a particular need? Um, yeah, you just want to know why we're still having, um, uh, what I think is still a big overspending energy costs given that they've kind of slightly, um, become quite stable. So those are two questions. Hopefully the chair doesn't kill me for abusing the process. I'll take the resident experience one, um, because I'm the one who sat here and waxed lyrically about how great it's going to be when our call centers get, um, amalgamated and how the whole service is going to be seamless. And, um, I'm going to hold my hands up here and say amalgamating three call centers was a lot more complicated than we thought. Um, the saving at present hasn't been achieved. Um, like the future works, I'm very, very passionate about this. And I think that we should crack on and do it because it's the right thing to do. Because whether you're phoning up about, uh, a repair or, uh, housing tendency thing or anything else, it should be one seamless service. And people should be able to, uh, get to the right person at the right time. Um, and it's, it will ultimately save money, but I, I'm, I'm going to put my hands up and say, yeah, we have, we're not where we should be on this. Um, so on the energy costs, so this is a little bit about, um, our approach to budgeting. So, so energy costs did spike and have fluctuated up and down. And one thing that we don't want to do is give out a budget to departments. Costs go down. We give it out for energy costs go down. Suddenly that department has more budget than they need and start to use it for various other things. So what we do generally for anything like that, where we're giving out money for a specific pressure is we hold it corporately. We see what the problem is, and then we allocate that budget out. So a couple of rows below that, you can see the energy, uh, the inflation energy and demand contingency and some of that being released. So that essentially offsets that 700,000 pounds. So as a council, we budgeted for that cost. We didn't give it out to services because we didn't actually know exactly where that pressure would land. So we kept it back and we'll give that, we'd give that out. So as a bottom line, sorry, I should have said at the very start of the introduction. So although we have an overspend within the departments and that has grown quite significantly for the bottom line, we do expect to live within our recurrent means. So when we get to the end of the financial year, save for any disasters between now and then, um, we do expect that the bottom line for the council will be, uh, a result that doesn't use any reserves, which is, again, really laudable thing for the council to have achieved. It achieved it last year. Fingers crossed it achieves it this year. And that is in the context of other boroughs around the capital, other boroughs very close to this borough, using tens of millions of pounds of their reserves. So all of that stems from the approach to budget setting and the, and the appropriate use of contingencies and various other things to cover problems. So if we didn't have our contingencies to pay for the temporary accommodation problem and energy problem, we would, um, I've recently found out that there's just under a hundred properties in the borough that have been vacant for over 12 months, council properties. Um, sorry. Oh, no. Yeah. Um, so most of those, uh, as in the biggest proportion of those are in mild more ward because of how the sage court, which many of you will be familiar with the saga of, um, can we do a review either through your team or through another team that isn't the voids team? Cause they're focused on getting their others done of all of those and what we can possibly do to get those back into the system. Because I think that the overspend, I don't know exactly cause I don't know the sizes of the properties, but like the overspend is not dissimilar to a hundred properties of pseudo. I mean, these are council properties. It's not the same as TA, but there's some through line there. Um, so yes, an investigation by a team that isn't responsible for that would be great as part of your work on this. Um, I guess I, there was a procurement of a, like an extension to the framework to buy the nightly accommodation, I think. Um, I'm assuming that there isn't some sort of like way to get around this cause everyone's doing the same thing. I know this is like a ludic, somewhat ludicrous suggestion, but we don't even like sign up for the discounts that the hotels offer. Right. So if we're doing everything through the framework, then I understand we're like very limited, but like, have we explored every single other option? We may well have cause everyone has this problem, but there is, we all know that the charges, uh, from temporary accommodation providers are ridiculous, especially when you consider what they're actually providing. They make the private rented sector seem like a bargain. So, um, I'm pretty sure all that work would have happened, but it would be great if we could just double check on that. Um, on Newington Barrow Way, I feel like we, this has been so long. Um, like seven years maybe that these discussions have been going on. I mean, what's going on? Cause I remember even a while back we thought about converting it to accommodation. I mean, we know that though, that's not the building that's going to have the highest commercial rents of the buildings that we have. Obviously we can't let go of this one, but like, why is this taking so long and how do we get it done? Shall I answer those in reverse? Um, firstly on, uh, Newington Barrow Way, um, I, I share all your frustrations. I've been tearing my hair out on this and asking questions about it for an awful long time. Um, it, it just shouldn't be like this. We had a very, very clear future work savings and it was predicated on doing something with Newington Barrow Way. I know that there is a market for it. I don't know why we can't just get on with it. I am going to keep on asking those questions and I will report back to this committee. Um, as soon as we have progress, but I share all your frustrations on that. Um, the biggest frustration for me is there clearly is, uh, a commercial market for Newington Barrow Way. There clearly is, uh, people who would take it. So all I can say is I will report back as soon as, as soon as there's progress on, uh, temporary accommodation. I think we have to, I think we have to look at it again. And your point on the frameworks is, is, is, is well made, but, um, given, I mean, I know some London brokers have got like a 40 million pound in, in, in year overspend on temporary accommodations. So we have a duty to just uncover every stone, even if the exercise has been done before. Let's do it. Let's do it again. And you're absolutely right. You know, I could, I could book, uh, the holiday in tomorrow for cheaper than the council gets it for. And I know it's, it's, it's, it's not as simple as that, but nevertheless, if there are ways and ways around it, let's do it. And of course, uh, nightly booked accommodation should, should always be a last resort. So the way to get the cost on is, is, uh, much less, uh, uh, nightly booked accommodation, which goes back to your first point. Um, I, um, I knew there were some empty council properties, but, uh, a hundred is a shocking figure. I mean, 97. Okay. Um, yeah. Um, and given the effort that we've put into really, really, really good work's been done in buying, uh, properties to use as, uh, TA and we're undermining all our good work if 97 of them are empty. So Paul and I will take that away. Um, just, you know, I, I think, uh, our financial management is part of the reason. I think the main reason is the fact that we're buying these properties, right? That's why we're not in this situation. So I'm sure you're already doing this, Dermit, but, uh, can we beg for more money? Can we beg for more money from the government for this? And also I think we need to be realistic that the failure of many of the projects, uh, of the new build team and the lack of completions is affecting us here. And it's, you know, there are many hundreds of properties that we would have wished to have by now that we do not. Um, at some point we need to think about reallocating resources. We, the team that buys properties seems to be really good at it. And my conversations with them, they really get on it. Uh, it's not to be answered here, but I want you to please really think about that because at this point, you know, I became a counselor to get social housing built. Um, it has not worked out well, um, but now we just need the properties. Um, we need to, uh, fundamentally relook at the way we acquire new council properties. Um, it pains me to say this, but, um, you know, when I became housing lead in 2016, you know, we were doing projects of five homes, three homes, two homes, and they were paying for themselves. They were washing their face. Um, it used to cost about, uh, 300k to build. It was really simple because it cost 300k to build a council home in Islington. Uh, one third grant, one third borrowing, one third cross subsidy, bish, bosh, done. Some of the, uh, figures I am looking at per home now are just eye watering. And you're, yeah, and you're, yeah, and you're, and you're, and you're, and you're absolutely right. In a lot of cases, it would be cheaper just to acquire, to acquire homes on the, on the open market. Obviously that poses big challenges because there's, because there's grant for, uh, building new homes. There's not necessarily a grant for buying homes. Although the flip side of that is that because we're very, very good at buying new homes, and we've got a really good reputation. That's one of the reasons why we've been very, very successful at, uh, acquiring government grant for, uh, buying new homes. And the government has singled us out as one of the best councils for buying new homes. And I have to all credit to the housing needs team who are very successful, uh, at that. Um, there are other councils who use this scheme to, uh, buy actual general needs council homes. Um, the reason we don't do that, and we did negotiate this at the time, because it was, it was supposed to be for, for just general needs council homes. Um, our argument was on the grant level, given the borrowing we'd have to do, given the value forms in Islington, the only way we could make this work financially is to charge local, local housing allowance rates and use it as temporary accommodation. That was accepted at the time by the mayor of London and by the government, um, as we could use it as TA, uh, instead. Hounslow, for example, used it to buy general needs, uh, council housing. Um, but I think you're right. I think the argument needs to be made again. Can we find a way to make it financially stack up to you, to buy homes, to acquire homes and use them as general needs council homes? Okay, uh, well, really well done on, you know, managing the budget. So we're in a relatively healthy position. Um, and this, this question about street operational services and the enforcement of, uh, littering, uh, it's, it's controversial on our committee. We, we are scrutinizing this. And it's obviously the contract is working to the extent that we're talking about cleaner streets, but it's, uh, and it is controversial, this idea of, uh, penalizing people. And, uh, but hopefully that will be a short term thing that, you know, people event, you know, it's like parking, you people, you find someone, then they, it stops. So hopefully it will be, the littering will be eradicated in Islington. And, uh, To put that in your manifesto. Yes. So, uh, and the other issue is about the overspend at the, in leisure, which is always put down to the partial closure of the Sobel. And really looking forward to when, you know, hopefully that overspend ends with, when the, uh, the Sobel is fully open. I just wondered if, if we could have a, a date on that. It says spring 25, but is that going to cover the whole of this 0.5 million overspend? Um, on the, you know, on, on the Sobel reopening. I mean, I've, I've now been to the soft play, I think nine times. This, this, this, this is why I haven't got any money. Cause I'm constantly, cause I'm constantly bringing my, bringing my kids to the soft play. I think it's, I think it's made, it's made about 19,000 pounds so far. I think half of that is me. Um, but, uh, I, as far as I understand, there is, um, still a spring 2025 date for the entire opening. I'm also very much looking forward to the, uh, active zone, um, as well, as, as well as the soft play. Um, the, uh, I mean, the bottom line is that the, the Sobel thing sadly couldn't have been predicted, but, um, there are mitigations in place. And then we're hoping that the whole thing can function again in the spring. Um, just in terms of the shortfall in the rents, I mean, we are pursuing that through recovery, uh, through the insurers or else legal recourse. So hopefully, although we have to report the pressure now because we report on what's guaranteed. Um, we've got a guaranteed pressure. We haven't yet got it guaranteed that we'll get that money back, but we are actively pursuing it. And hopefully we will, so that gets it. Um, I don't know, um, but I will, um, uh, I will feedback when I do know. Thank you chair. I was actually going to ask about the Sobel saga as well. Um, the reason why I say saga, because I think we've kind of had different pictures all the way along. I don't actually know what the total, um, exposure currently stands at. Um, again, it would be great to know kind of what that number is. Um, but then also if I could draw your attention to, um, community wealth building, and I'm afraid it's back to the future work program, but I've just noticed, um, the chair mentioned, um, and deliverables. And it does seem to record here that we have almost 800,000, which seems to have been written off, uh, from the future work program. Um, so it's not just an overspend, but something that will not be delivered. Can we just have a bit of explanation of what is not going to be delivered? Um, so I think, I think that, uh, alludes to that, what Councillor Ward was talking about before. So my expectation is that that saving will be delivered. It is just a delay, and there's a series of kind of chess moves that release, that fully release that benefit. My expectation as well is that the benefits of the program go beyond what is currently baked in as a savings. So we, we, we built in some optimism bias around what will happen in reality through, uh, in the assumptions for those moves. We baked in an assumption around the reduced running costs of those properties. But if, for instance, as Councillor Ward said before, we, you know, we suddenly let out MBW for a decent commercial rent, and we do all of the other options, then my hope is that the Council will be better off than, uh, than the savings that we've currently assumed. But, um, but, you know, not banking anything until it's, until it's assumed. My base assumption is that the saving is not delivered this year. Jury's out on whether, on what impacts there will be, um, around whether it's a full year or, or not for next year, but certainly going forward in the future. I, I, I expect that to be a delay rather than non-delivery. So, so just to clarify, um, I think the saving is about 1 point something million, but here it says about 800,000 has been written off. So we're now saying that the cumulative saving is less than that 1 million. Or is it just, like you said, moving money around, um? Yeah, it's a, it's a profiling. So the overall, I think the total saving for the program is about 1.7 million. So this is the, the final of, of that saving that is delayed. So my expectation is that the full 1.7 will be achieved. So, can we move now onto the MTFS? Uh, virtually shuffling my papers. There we go. Um, okay. So just a reminder of the context that this report is. So we, um, we set, uh, a new kind of process in chain for the last kind of 12 months around doing quarterly refreshes of the MTFS. So that recognized that local government finances, very fast moving, very delicate, very difficult to predict. And actually coming back once a year to set the budget, um, didn't give you a flavor of what was happening and the challenges being faced throughout that. So, so this update, the timing of it falls immediately before the budget setting process. So, uh, on the 8th of January, the administration's proposed budget will be, will be published. This report therefore kind of sets the, the context that that budget is, um, is being set in. Uh, it, it, it, the report was drafted very quickly after the autumn budget. Um, but before the policy statement, um, way before the local government finance settlement, which is due about three days before Christmas, which sounds flippant, but it is literally three days before Christmas. Um, the autumn budget and what has been released since there, uh, you know, much more positive language about, um, local government finance, uh, sector. Uh, there's a commitment to longer term financial settlements, which gives greater confidence to plan. You know, we know what numbers we're going to be, uh, we're going to be presented with. So we know the scale of the challenge for the future years. So that's great. There are still a lot of unknowns, which, uh, the accountants that put together the report, uh, don't like. So there is, uh, there are lots of sources of optimism, but not a lot of knowledge about where we, where we are with it. Uh, I would caution the optimism though, until we know, uh, where exactly we are. Because, um, uh, we, we will not be in a context of growing what the organization does. This is a, you know, the, the context is we've got really huge challenges with TA and various other things. And actually, um, being able to afford to do tomorrow what we're doing today is, is an absolute, um, win for a local government sector in the economic climate, um, that, that exists. Uh, temporary accommodation, um, as barrelling in many boroughs is, is a real challenge to the medium term. So we have an estimate of what demand would be, but we had an estimate of what demand would be previously, and it was kind of a bit higher than that. So, so whilst we don't know exactly how much money will be coming in the settlement, we've got a bit of an idea and we can make some estimates equally. There's, there's risks on the known kind of quantities that we'll get in terms of that demand. So this report tries to take a position on as much of that that we can. Um, but we will know more at settlement time and we'll know even more at budget setting time. So we're on that journey, but hopefully this report, uh, sets that out. It is, it looks like a significant gap. It is a significant gap. Um, if I just give a bit of a flavor of the things that have moved since the last time, and I won't take up too much time doing this, but broadly speaking, and I'll talk in very, very rounded and broad numbers. Uh, the budget announced the extra, uh, costs to employers as a result of national insurance. So for the council as an employer, we think that will cost us an additional 4 million pounds. There is, uh, verbal commitments around fully funding that. So hopefully that is a zero cost, but we know we've got the cost and we don't yet know what our reimbursement for that will be. So that's explains a bit about what we know and what we don't know. National insurance and London living wage rises for things like adult social care contracts, you know, huge, huge numbers. The social care market isn't known for making kind of huge profits and those companies being sustainable. So that is only going to come back to the council as a cost to us, um, demographic increases. So we think that's probably about 7 million in total, 5 million of that being TA and, uh, the rest being kind of social care packages. But then there are things that have moved in our favor. So actually, um, we don't think we need quite as much capital financing. So that helps pay for some of those problems. Uh, we are, um, uh, we've, we've included the proposed, we've included a removal of the financial resilience budget. So this is where we budget to supplement our reserves. Actually standing still on reserves is really good. And in context of all the pressures can we would stand out like a sore thumb if we are budgeting to put money into reserves. We clearly want to do that. But would we choose to do that in the context of, you know, cutting frontline services or something like that? Then absolutely we wouldn't. So, so there's things that have moved by that. So, um, broadly speaking, the gap moved upwards by just less than 3 million pounds. Um, my expectation is that we will be able to set a balance balance. Uh, budget without using reserves again for next year. Uh, and that is the sum total of additional settlement funding, which we hope for. We've not had it confirmed. We'll find out in December. Um, there will be a program of savings. So the gap currently only includes things that have been approved in previous years. So there will be a package of savings, uh, presented, uh, by the executive. There, there are options around council tax increases, which are, which are available within there. And then there will always be mitigations of pressures, management actions to control costs, et cetera. Uh, and those, the sum total of all of that taken together, uh, supports my assertion that we should be in a position to be able to set a balance budget without any use of reserves. Um, the report does talk about our reserves and flags a risk of doing nothing takes us below where we set as a safe level. Clearly, we're not going to do nothing, but that is to give you the, the context of where we would end up. Um, and then the final point before I, uh, before I, uh, hand over is, uh, so the HRA, um, all HRAs are under pressure because things like maintenance are linked to construction indices and various other things. And the inflation for those is going through the roof. And we have had a period where rental increases in the HRA have been constrained. Um, and if you get inflation on your costs and not your income, making those balances is, is extremely difficult. So the, the impact of that across the 30 year business plan is that, you know, the less income you get in, the less maintenance. Thank you, chef. Um, just two, if I can, and I'll get them both in the same time, just following, uh, example of what I believe is a great counselor. So I can, I can only rise to that bar. Um, so the first one, um, you mentioned the HRA. Um, from what I remember, uh, I think that was supposed to come to executive back in April or so on. I think there's been discussions about the 30 year plan. Um, just thinking in terms of the forward plan and the timeline for when that actually might materialize, um, would be good to know. I know there's a lot of, uh, changing circumstances that need to be incorporated, but I think it would be useful to know what that looks like. Um, and then, um, the 4 million, uh, pressure that's coming from the increases in the national insurance contributions. Um, and maybe slightly a political question, um, but is, um, the national government listening to the councils that are all saying that they are in a really difficult position? Um, and as you've mentioned before, there are some who are in a much more difficult position, uh, that if there was no support to mitigate that, uh, pressure, uh, might potentially be pushed over the line. So, I don't know, maybe for the executive member, uh, are there channels open that this is very clearly being communicated, um, and that it potentially has direct consequences on frontline services? So, the government have committed to funding the, uh, employers' national insurance rights. Now, we need to be fully transparent about our, uh, medium-term financial plans, and, um, for that reason, we need to be clear that, as of today, this is a gap, a gap on our budget. And, um, um, we don't yet know details of how this is going to be funded, to what amount, um, you know, and, uh, national insurance employers are going to be in the supply chain. So, there are all of those uncertainties, but, uh, the bottom line is the government have committed to funding it. Um, we still have this ridiculous system where, um, the settlement comes out on December 19th. It's always my early Christmas present. Um, hopefully, it'll be, hopefully, it'll be different next year, because the government have committed to multi-year settlements, and we can actually plan things. And this will be, this will be the last year of this kind of uncertainty up to December 19th. So, um, yeah, there has been a commitment, but the details are yet to be seen. Um, on your first question, I have no idea when the HRA business plan will come together. Your business plan will come to exec. Can we, can we get that information for you? Paul might know. Yeah. Um, so it's included in the budget pack. So it was, it was in the budget pack last year for council budget setting. And it will be, I'm not, I can't, I'm not sure if it's in the January exec pack or the February exec pack, but it is part of the budget setting process for next year. So my question is a very quick one. You, you, and 2.3 on the report summary talks about our already, already comparatively low reserves. And our previous interactions, uh, earlier was just talking about that we're in a slightly better place with our reserves than some other councils. And so it kind of just, yeah, just cause I'm looking at this document as, as you rightfully said, as, as a scene setter ahead of kind of the budget proposals and that we will be publishing in early January. And so, you know, reserves, we're not, we're not thankfully drawing down onto our reserves as much as some other councils to service, uh, the increase in temporary accommodation. Um, but I just thought, you know, when you say comparatively low reserves, who are we comparing ourselves to? Um, so London boroughs and predominantly inner London boroughs because the inner London borough, the risk profile of us versus an outer London borough is, is very difficult. Uh, very different, sorry. Um, what I would say is that our level of reserves is comparatively low. Um, however, uh, we are standing still and everyone else has been going down. So standing still might end, might mean that we end up actually in a fortuitously, you know, more healthy position than some other boroughs that have had, uh, significantly higher. But that doesn't mean that then we become suddenly a rich borough. The context is that our level of reserves is probably appropriate to the level of risk that we've got. We have huge amounts of business rates growth in the borough. There is the threat to local government or the opportunity to local government of a business rates reset where overnight we could lose all of that growth and that's worth about 15 to 20 million pounds for us. So at the stroke of a pen, our budget could lose a significant portion of that. So equally COVID came along and probably cost us 40 million pounds in, in one year. So the level of reserves that we've got, I think is the level that gives us comfort to know that we'll survive tomorrow, but it, it's not enough to start investing in things where other boroughs have been investing in things. And then suddenly TA comes along and takes 20 or 30 million pounds a year. And they've gone from having loads of reserves to pay for lots of things to no reserves to pay for anything. Um, so it's a difficult balance. Also worth probably worth flagging up, uh, the external auditors comments, uh, from last week, they came to audit committee, uh, last Monday. And, uh, interestingly, their point of view was, well, if we didn't have a significant track record on delivering savings over the past decade, and we do have a really significant track record on delivering, uh, difficult savings, then they would be concerned. But given that they've seen that, that whole picture that we are delivering our savings, they actually haven't got any, uh, significant concerns. And again, that puts us in good stead. And I think that, I mean, our reserve, you know, if, if we weren't to sit down and do the budget and make hard choices every single year, I'd be very worried about our reserves, but it's a credit to the council that every year we do sit down and make those hard choices. So, um, Paul and council, thank you for coming tonight and out and all you're doing, uh, to keep the council afloat. Um, just a few formal, um, matters forward plan review tracker all in the, um, papers as is the work program. So, um, do any of the committee chairs want to raise anything at this stage? Nope. Um, finally from me, for, uh, the committee members, can you, over the festive break that's getting ever closer, just give some thought to, um, any reflections that you have on the scrutiny topic that we've been looking at, um, and send them in, um, to me because we will be getting to the stage where we'll be making recommendations. I think it would be really good to have your thoughts at an early stage on, um, what you think the key themes that are, um, emerging and, um, comments on the, um, paper that circulated earlier. If you can get them to me in the, uh, next week, that will help us to stick to the timetable that we are planning. Other than that, um, I hope this is the final meeting of the year. Something will have gone very badly wrong if we have to have another meeting this year. So thank you all for your, um, efforts and have a great festive break. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Transcript
Summary
The meeting discussed the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman’s annual review of complaints, social value in home care contracts, the council’s finances, and potential undeliverable savings in a range of areas.
Complaints
The committee considered the Ombudsman’s annual review letter, which had been critical of the council's complaints handling in the past. They questioned Councillor Diarmaid Ward, Executive Member for Finance and Performance, and Manny Lewis, Head of Complaints, on Islington's progress in implementing the Ombudsman's recommendations.
Councillor Ward stated:
There is an awful lot done, but there is an awful lot to do.
He went on to describe how, despite improvements, Islington was still failing to resolve residents' issues at the first point of contact:
I'm going to give [an example] again tonight, because I think it kind of sums up exactly the journey that we have to go on… What sums this up is a piece of case work that ended up in my inbox, but it was a very, very simple thing from a resident.
I just want this thing done on my estate. In the end, after two or three emails to said service about why can't this thing be done. The eventual answer that came back was,I'm really sorry, that's not our team… we have done that and it doesn't work. So, tell you what, can you please complain about said other team? Then it will get done.
Mr Lewis described the changes to the complaints process, including a new complaints board, a new complaints management system, and new training for staff. He also described how directorates now have to develop complaint improvement plans
in response to issues raised by the Ombudsman and by residents.
Members of the public raised several concerns about the responsiveness of the council's New Build Team, and the quality of responses they had received from the complaints department. Members agreed to request a written response from the council within 14 days, and to add new build to the agenda of the next meeting.
Social Value in the Home Care Market
The committee heard a presentation from Nikki Ralph, Assistant Director of Strategic Commissioning, and Jodi Pilling, Director of Strategic Commissioning and Investment, on the council's work to maximise social value in its Home Care framework.
Ms Ralph described how the council had made social value 20% of the award criteria when procuring the new framework, which had led to much greater diversity in the market:
Before the new contracts were launched, we had two providers that we contracted with, and all our other providers were spot providers. Um, and so now we, we really wanted to create a more diverse market, and we wanted to create more diversity in terms of local providers, but also having more, um, small, medium, um, sized enterprises. And as you can see on the slide, we now have the majority of our, um, organisations are SMEs. Um, we have one VCSE organization, and we have a number of director run organizations. In the previous contract, the two providers that we contracted with were large national organizations. So we've really created diversity in the market.
She went on to describe some of the social value commitments the council had sought, including the London Living Wage, paid travel time for care workers, guaranteed hours contracts, and trade union recognition. She also noted that over half of the staff employed by the council's Home Care providers lived in Islington.
Ms Ralph concluded by describing some of the challenges associated with driving social value, including balancing the desire for an ethical
care system with the financial constraints on the council and the providers. The council has committed to implementing its Ethical Care Charter, which sets out a series of standards for home care provision, but Ms Ralph noted that further improvements in social value will rely on a voluntary buy-in
from the providers.
Council Finances
Paul Wood, the Corporate Director of Resources, and Councillor Ward presented the second quarter budget monitoring report and the Autumn update to the Medium Term Financial Strategy (MTFS).
Quarter Two Budget Monitoring
Mr Wood described how the council’s General Fund position had worsened by £3.6 million since the first quarter, primarily due to significantly rising demand for and costs of temporary accommodation. The council is forecasting a £5.4 million overspend on temporary accommodation, an increase of £4 million since the first quarter. Mr Wood stated:
We have about a 5 million pound pressure. Other authorities have had 20 or 30 million pound pressures after growth for the last couple of years. Um, temporary accommodation is going to be the thing that pulls a lot of authorities below section 114 level. So to have a pressure of 5 million, I don't expect really to be saying here and getting any sympathy, but we are extremely lucky for the pressures to be managed down so well to that level. Although it is an absolute critical risk to our, to our finances in the medium term.
Councillor Ward described the work the council is doing to mitigate the rising costs of temporary accommodation, including through its Property Acquisition Programme, changes to its allocations policy, and work to prevent homelessness in the first place. He stated:
The biggest frustration for me is there clearly is, uh, a commercial market for Newington Barrow Way. There clearly is, uh, people who would take it. So all I can say is I will report back as soon as, as soon as there's progress on, uh, temporary accommodation. I think we have to, I think we have to look at it again.
The council is also forecasting a £1.18 million shortfall in income from commercial property, which is unchanged since the first quarter. The council is working to identify ways to increase its commercial income, including opportunities to lease space at Newington Barrow Way.
Other areas of overspend included a £1.559 million shortfall in parking income, an £0.805 million overspend in Street Operational Services, and a £0.512 million overspend in leisure services.
Despite these pressures, Mr Wood stated that the council expects to remain within its recurrent means for the year, and to avoid drawing down on its reserves.
Autumn Medium Term Financial Strategy
The Autumn update to the MTFS presented an even bleaker picture. Mr Wood described how the estimated 2025/26 budget gap had increased by £2.772 million since the Summer update, to £30.625 million. He stated:
The budget announced the extra, uh, costs to employers as a result of national insurance. So for the council as an employer, we think that will cost us an additional 4 million pounds. There is, uh, verbal commitments around fully funding that. So hopefully that is a zero cost, but we know we've got the cost and we don't yet know what our reimbursement for that will be.
He went on to describe how the council’s reserves are forecast to fall significantly over the next five years, and could fall below the council’s minimum acceptable level by 2027/28.
Mr Wood described how the council would attempt to close the budget gap through a combination of new savings proposals, additional government funding (although the level of which is as yet unknown), and increases to council tax.
Undeliverable Savings
Throughout the meeting, members raised concerns about the council's ability to deliver the savings it had identified as part of its budget setting process. These included:
Future Works Programme
Councillor Ward acknowledged that the council was way behind
on delivering the savings identified through its Future Works Programme.
He stated:
We are way behind on this. Now, for me, this is very much a saving delay, not a saving abandon because there's a huge amount of work has been put into this… In a nutshell, this was all predicated on, uh, the ICB moving from the Laycock building to, uh, Newington Borough Way and Elwood being vacated and redeveloped or used for something else… As things went, uh, along the way, things changed. Um, ICB didn't move to Newington Borough Way and that caused costs. Um, ICB is now taking up the whole of Laycock, which will give us, uh, additional income. Children's are staying at Elwood and Newington Borough Way needs to be leased out. Uh, we need to make progress on Brewery Road, uh, as well. So there's an awful lot of moving parts to this. Um, but this is very much, uh, a saving delay.
Mr Wood described how the savings from the Future Works Programme were delayed
rather than undeliverable,
and stated that his expectation is that the full 1.7 [million] will be achieved.
Littering Enforcement
Mr Wood stated that the council was also likely to miss its savings target relating to increased income from the enforcement of littering. The council had procured a new contractor to issue Fixed Penalty Notices for littering, but had found that collecting the fines was difficult.
He stated:
So the variance relates to the shortfall in the F, in the fixed penalty notice, uh, for, for littering fly tipping commercial, uh, commercial waste. So the income targets that were put in, this was a, a kind of standing start on, uh, on implementing something new. What it has done has resulted in actually less littering. So it is having service, it is having the service impact, uh, whilst not necessarily having the financial impact. The contractor is issuing significant amounts of, uh, fixed penalty notices, probably enough to achieve the income target. But the difficulty is then collecting those fixed penalty notices once they're issued.
He suggested that the council would have to decide whether it was worth still continuing with that course of activity because it is having an overall good for the borough,
even if it does not achieve the expected financial savings.
Unoccupied Council Properties
Councillor Jenny Kay highlighted that a recent Freedom of Information request had revealed that nearly 100 council properties had been unoccupied for over 12 months. She requested that the council undertake a review of these properties, and questioned whether bringing them back into use could help to reduce the council's spending on temporary accommodation. She stated:
I've recently found out that there's just under a hundred properties in the borough that have been vacant for over 12 months, council properties. Um, sorry. Oh, no. Yeah. Um, so most of those, uh, as in the biggest proportion of those are in Mildmay ward because of how the Sage Court, which many of you will be familiar with the saga of, um, can we do a review either through your team or through another team that isn't the voids team? Cause they're focused on getting their others done of all of those and what we can possibly do to get those back into the system because I think that the overspend, I don't know exactly cause I don't know the sizes of the properties, but like the overspend is not dissimilar to a hundred properties of pseudo. I mean, these are council properties. It's not the same as TA, but there's some through line there. Um, so yes, an investigation by a team that isn't responsible for that would be great as part of your work on this.
Councillor Ward agreed that 100 empty council properties was a shocking figure,
and agreed to take the issue away with Mr Wood.
Councillor Kay also questioned whether the council had explored all possible options for reducing the cost of temporary accommodation, including negotiating discounts with hotels outside of its existing framework agreements.
Contact Centre Consolidation
Councillor Ibrahim questioned whether the council was on track to deliver the savings associated with the consolidation of its contact centres, noting that the budget monitoring report showed an overspend in this area.
Councillor Ward acknowledged that the process of consolidating the council's three contact centres had been a lot more complicated than we thought,
and that the saving at present hasn't been achieved.
However, he maintained that the consolidation was the right thing to do,
and that it will ultimately save money.
Attendees
Documents
- CRESC Minutes - 5 November 2024 other
- Public reports pack 05th-Dec-2024 19.30 Corporate Resources and Economy Scrutiny Committee reports pack
- London Borough of Islington
- Agenda frontsheet 05th-Dec-2024 19.30 Corporate Resources and Economy Scrutiny Committee agenda
- Home care - Corporate Resources and Economy Scrutiny December 2024 other
- CRESC Covering Report 5.12.24 - Q2 2024-25 other
- BM - Appendix 1_ 2024-25 Key Variances Q2
- BM - Appendix 2_2024-25 Revenue by service area Q2
- BM Appendix 3_Delivery of Agreed 24-25 Savings Q2 other
- BM - Appendix 4 - Q2 2024-25 Capital Programme
- BM - Appendix 5 - Q2 Approved and Indicative Capital Programme
- CRESC Covering Report - Autumn MTFS 2024-25
- MTFS - Appendix A - GF MTFS 2024-26 Budget Autumn Update
- MTFS - Appendix B Previously Agreed Savings other
- Forward Plan of Key Decisions other
- Scrutiny Committee business tracker
- Work Plan 24-25 other
- Second Despatch 05th-Dec-2024 19.30 Corporate Resources and Economy Scrutiny Committee
- LGSCO Annual Review Performance Report 2023-24 - final_