Transcript

Good evening everyone and welcome to the meeting of the Cabinet. This meeting will be webcast live to the Internet. For those who do not wish to be recorded or filmed, you will need to leave the Chamber. For members, officers and others speaking at the meeting, it is important that the microphones are used so viewers on the webcast and others in the room may hear you. Would anyone with a mobile phone please switch it to silent mode as they can be distracting? I would like to remind members that although we all have strong opinions on the matters under consideration, it is important to treat members, officers and public speakers with respect. Thank you very much. So if we can go to apologies for absence. Thank you. We have no apologies. That is good everyone. Good show. Declarations of interest. Does anyone have a declaration of interest to make? I am not sure on this one. Just because it is non-becunery but as I am a council tenant as it were, I should probably declare an interest on item 7 and 8. Very much Councillor Fuller. Moved. On to item 3, the minutes of the Cabinet meeting held on Wednesday the 28th of February. Are there any issues or concerns? Can I sign them as agreed? Thank you very much, members. Moving on to item 4, a quarter three performance report pages 11 to 44 in your pack. Who is going to lead us through this one? Councillor Prater. I thought you might get away without me speaking at this one. The quarter three performance report is in front of you as the quarters 1 and 2 have been over the last three months. I would like to thank Gavin for all of this hard work in terms of the matter. It was noted by the Finance Subcommittee a couple of weeks ago that they think that this is one of the best reports that this Council gets and is one of the clearest in terms of the indicators now. He is continually evolving it and changing it to make it clear and easier to understand and to reflect questions and comments that have been made. As you see it in front of you, one of the comments that was made was that many of the indicators of this are moving very much in the right direction. There is very much an elephant in the room regarding ICO breaches, et cetera, but it's not a hidden elephant. It is very clear elephant is being addressed as an important issue internally. It is being arrested in terms of training, et cetera, and it is interested in terms of the way that processing of potential complaints and potential breaches is being taken forward. I can only say that I have confidence that it is being taken seriously and being worked on as an issue. The rest of the reports in front of you, if you have any questions of detail, I would absolutely like love to deflect them together. Thank you very much. There is only one hand. Presumably you are going to move the report. Would you like to ask a second? Happy to second. I was going to comment. Please do. Comment. It was just to follow up on what Tim was saying about the freedom of information and the subject of its requests area. Although obviously there is still a lot of one to do, it is worth noting that three out of the four sort of extant KPIs are going in the right direction now as it were compared with the previous year. There is still a lot to do, but we are hopeful. To comment, I mean, it is just a bit of kind of naked crowing, really, but I just wanted to take the opportunity to congratulate the grants maintenance team for the Green Flag Status last year and also that they have submitted. I have had a lot of comments about the wonderful display of high sense around the place. Absolutely fantastic, which I think is really great. Also continuing on the crowing theme, again, my portfolio, I was pleased to see that the percentage of street survey, terrible litter, was up, again, to 97% and also that the number of Miss bins remains well within target at 29,000, which is, I think, I worked out as a 99.7% success rate crowing finished. Thank you. Well, following on exactly the same page 32, in the next row down, we have got the percentage of household waste recycled, which is stubbornly being a bit below the 50% rate, which would be wonderful to achieve. It is good, we are well up in terms of other local authorities, but we have got further to go. One of the things which I have been talking to with the team is about launching a 50/50 campaign. The chance to, we can all do it together, we can break the 50/50 barrier if we just tried a little bit harder, and so that is taking shape, and I think at not certain at what point it is going to go on to the website, but there will be an A to Z of what you can recycle and a certain amount of publicity and so on, and the team are getting behind the 50/50 notion. Hopefully, we can persuade everybody else in the district to do their bit, and between us, we can get through that barrier. Thank you very much. Councillor B like more, sorry. Thank you, Chair. Risk of strike is slightly more negative, no. In page 9, a thriving environment, the number of community environmental volunteer events supported. I know we missed that every quarter, whether it says it was narrowly met in quarter 3, but actually that was the lowest figure of the year. I am just wondering how we can achieve that KPI going forward, because I gather we have lost an area officer through the transformation process, so are we going to be able to support those events going forward? I have got another question, but do you want to take that one first? Thank you. Thank you for your comments on that, Councillor Blake, with regards to that KPR, we are looking at that as well, because I note your points that we have obviously had a reduction in the staff results there, so we are looking at the overall target on that, and what is going forward. We have obviously reflected in the report that there has been some work, obviously giving out little picking equipment to members of the public, as opposed to doing the events as well, but we do note those points, and we are looking at the target on that KPI for next year as well. I mean, it would be a shame to lose those community events or to reduce them, because I know they are very valued, and we run one every month in charity, which is a big success with the net police community and other members of the community. So it would be a shame to reduce the number of those, but I know that it is putting an awful lot on the one area or officer who tends to manage all of them. If I can ask another question, if I may, on page 10, on the number of related to fly tipping, and how quickly it is cleared up basically, I am just wondering whether we are also monitoring the number of fly tipping incidents, because anecdotally it appears that fly tipping is on the increase, certainly in terms of bits of furniture being left on the street, that kind of fly tipping. So do we have evidence of, so we have, we are monitoring how quickly we clear out the fly tipping, but are we monitoring how many incidents of fly tipping are, so as a proportion of the number of flight, and is it, if we are not, is it possible to do that, because it would be good to know whether we are doing that and whether the increase in the charges for bolt waste collection has an impact on that or not going forward. Thank you. Thank you for your comments again on that Councillor Blame, with regards to obviously the numbers and the incidents as well, I believe we would hold that information. I would need to have that conversation with the environmental protection team and obviously the waste team around that, but we could obviously, they would obviously be aware of certain hotspots and incidents within the district, through their intelligence and the work they have on the ground, but I will have a look into that with them and see if we can actually include some of those potential figures and then other bits and pieces to give some more context around that going forward. Thank you very much. Councillor B like more, Polly. Thank you. I just wanted to pick up where Councillor SPEAK me left off with them bigging up the teams, because I've got a couple to big up as well. The food safety team have been inspected 102 premises this quarter, and I think it's fair to say in the past three to four, five years maybe, there's been a huge increase in the number of food outlets in Folkestone, both in the—well, across the district really, particularly down at the Harbour Arm, which has massively increased the workload. So they're doing a fabulous job and they're not very many of them. And likewise, the environmental enforcement team, six enforcement notices, which is for things such as waste accumulation on private land, noise abatement and so on. So that was six enforcement notices in the last quarter, but the big one is 133 fixed penalty notices, and that's the littering and the dog control that should have more low-level stuff, which is way above their annual target of 200. So they're doing a fabulous job. Well done. Thank you very much. Councillor Algate. Just a slight note around the vibrant economy piece of new businesses engaging with public sector programmes in Mark 0 for the quarter, but in the last two weeks we have been rapidly reviewing lots of applications. So I think that's more of a timeline consequence of the actual activity. So yeah, look forward to next quarter being far more phobbered. Yeah, I can certainly confirm that between the green business ground and the rural economy ground, we're engaged fully on that. Any other Councillor scoffing? Yeah, I'm in paragraph three, under the thriving economy, in paragraph 2.32, on page 15 there's a little section on the green business grants and the rural England prosperity fund, both of which I'm delighted to say that I've been sitting on the award panel together with our leader and various others. And it's been a really interesting process for me and I wanted to just say how thorough the background research which Andy Markwell has done on this is. I was really impressed that by his deep understanding of the context of the grant, as well as the grant itself. And we've been, had a really interesting range of applications from the usual or the more mainstream ideas of solar panels and so on, integrated insulation or sort of full-scale insulation programs, wood pellets for an oven, which we looked at very carefully to find out what we thought about it. All of these things together with cooling water, which will up for a food plant, which is going to save a third of their water and something like 700 liters an hour, a huge amount of water. Really unexpected things coming forward. And I just felt that this is an example of the way in which a vibrant economy is being supported and able to move towards being a green economy. All these measures are quantifiable reductions in carbon and they show which a thriving economy and a green economy go together to make this district more desirable and attract further businesses and further investments. So it's a really interesting process for me and I just wanted to share that. Good, thank you very much everyone. I would just like to put in a shout on the mobile pantry. I'm sorry that a mobile pantry is so needed, but it is. And this has been an absolutely fantastic success with a load of committed volunteers, a little bit of money and a lot of effort, a lot of facilitation from the church where it's based and a really good community partnership that's got a job done, a really important job to do. So well done everyone that's involved with a pantry. I've found this report very, very clear, very crisp. You know, I would waffle on endlessly about all of these topics, but I'm very impressed, very impressed with what we're doing. So we have a proposal, a council approach and we have a seconder, Councillor Foila. All those in favour, please indicate. Thank you very much. And we move forward to item 5, the 22-23 annual equality report. Councillor Laitmore, thank you. It falls to me to introduce. So the Council needs to ensure it meets the statue requirements of the public sector equality duty. This report summarises the activities undertaken in 2022 to 23, remember then, to promote equality, diversity and inclusion and highlights the positive measures that have been taken to remove barriers, improve access to services and increase customer satisfaction. The report is being presented much later in the year than anticipated due to a time lag in the publication of some data sets from external sources. The 2023-24 report should be a little more timely, you'll hopefully see it by October time, even if that means some of the external data won't yet have been updated. The public sector equality duty requires public authorities to consider how they could positively contribute to the advancement of equality and good relations. It requires equality considerations to be taken into account when making decisions and reflected in the design of policies and the delivery of services. While we have a legal obligation here, I'm sure members would agree that the equality duty should lead to better informed decision making and services that effectively and appropriately meet diverse user needs, in turn leading to increased customer satisfaction. The public sector equality duty is made up of a general equality duty and specific duties designed to ensure public authorities meet the general equality duty. There's a strategy requirement to publish information annually to demonstrate compliance with the general equality duty, hence the publication of the annual report you have before you this evening. I'd like to move recommendations to receive and note the cabinet report and consider and approve the draft equality and diversity annual report. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm very happy to second that Councillor Laytonore and open to all members for comments, debate, questions. Councillor Prater. Thank you. This is absolutely not directed to Mike because I realise that he's presenting a report from Prater, his existence on his Council. So the fact that he raised and is absolutely the right point is that this is really late and is absolutely not his fault. I do accept that some of it's about external data sources being late, but the purpose of doing this on an annual basis is that you get it early enough that you can learn and fix what you're doing and improve what you're doing. And this is too late to improve what we've done this year. It's broadly pointless for 2324 because we've almost finished it. So I really welcome the fact that this will come forward much quicker now. If we're relying on data sets which are published till February, we should stop relying on those data sets and we should work on something else. So I really appreciate that. The report itself, I think, is good and does show a number of good actions, but I really hope that we can bring it forward over the next year. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor for that. I'm going to be negative as well, sorry. I need briefly. It is a really detailed report and as ever I love to see all the data on our communities and things like that and it goes into great detail. The one thing for me that feels like it's missing is the connection between those data sets and what we're doing. And some of this is because you get the data maybe after you've done the fitting and things like that. But being able to say, okay, so for example, let's pick one where we're not too good on. So barriers to housing service. We're, what, fifth lowest. So knowing what we've done to try and push ourselves up that list in later years and having it linked to that data set might make it clear for the public and indeed for officers, you know, where the issues are and how we're dealing with them. So that was my only real concern with the report was that those sections on understanding how communities are workforce and so on didn't necessarily naturally link to all of the really good actions that have taken place. Other than that, great talk. Thank you very much. A Councillor scoffum. Well, I've not seen one of these before and I was absolutely fascinated by it. That fortunately it's worse. I didn't know it was, I got the historical understanding of the time table. So I wasn't able to look at it from that lens. But when I saw annual equality and diversity report reflections, I thought this might not be my number one interest. But it was, it was absolutely fascinating and I learned so much about the district and we got the oldest population as it were across all the other districts in Kent. This helps me, apart from anything else, to understand what we're doing and how we can best provide a service for the community. The fact that 70% of us live in one or two person households tells me something so different. We're 92% white. That, again, is, I've now got that data. It's very, very good data to know and it helps me to understand how I can do my job better. And I think anybody who reads it can appreciate that. But the links, I take the point about the links. Yes, it could be there. But I could spend a lot of time with this report. I think it's really good. Thank you. Thank you very much. Any other members wish to contribute? So we have a proposal at Councillor Blakemore. I've seconded all those in favour. Please indicate. That's Carrie. Thank you. Moving on to next item, item six, opportunity task limited, progress report 2324. Who's going to lead us through this one? Ah, James. I was wonderful. Absolutely. The chairman of opportunity task. We're honoured. Thank you, Chair. So that is what I'm here for. So the report gives an update on the performance of the company compared to the beginning of the financial year, but also compared with the update in December. And paragraph 1.2 gives the headings that the report addresses and I'm going to go through those headings and just flesh them out a little bit. So the first heading is the company's property portfolio and that's about to be revalued as it is every March. That will be reported to April's cabinet. Last March, we had a cumulative valuation gain of about 1.6 million. We're told that local movements in property prices may show a reduction in the value of the portfolio, but we'll know that for April. Rental yield, which is a key metric for property portfolios, so that's rental income as a percentage of the value of the portfolio is currently 5.9%. A quick Google of the average for UK property portfolios gives figures of between 3.5% and 7%. So we're within that band. Second heading is rent arrears. So rent arrears are currently 2.5% of the total rent charged and the figure for the HRA is 2.3%. So again, we're in line with what might be expected. Moving on to heading 3. So the projected profit and loss account and I think this is where it gets quite complex. So the budget at the beginning of the financial year was for a deficit of just under 50,000. In December, we were projecting a very different figure, so that was a surplus of 94,000. And we're now projecting a loss of nearly 11,000, so closer to what was budgeted at the beginning of the year. This is not to do with the performance of the company, but it's to do with how things are accounted for specifically the interest on the RVH2 loan. So in December, we thought that that wouldn't be occurring until next financial year. That's positions now being revised to say no, the interest needs to be occurring this financial year. And that's why there's a loss being reported. It's a lower loss than was budgeted for at the beginning of the financial year for two main reasons. So we've got higher rental income than expected, particularly from RVH2. And there are lower interest costs than we're predicted for the RVH2 loan, and we'll come on to that. Heading 4 is net return to the Council's shareholder. So at the beginning of the year, that was estimated to be 113,000. It's now rejected to be 213,000. So that's a very significant shift. And the two factors contributing to that is the cost of the Council of financing the loan is some 83,000 higher than estimated given movements and interest rates. And loan interest being paid by the company is £14,000 lower and linked to that lower. Well, we'll come on to that about the loan for RVH2. So that's the really significant factor I think about the cost of financing the company. And the financial review that was mentioned back in December is addressing that. And we'll come on to that in just a moment. The provisional out-term for capital cost and funding for RVH2, the company is using about 240,000 less of that loan than expected. That's going to reduce interest payments and it's to do with lower stamp duty, land tax than expected. And then finally heading 6 and 7 about the business plan and the financial review of the company. That's coming in much later than expected. So the board are going to be looking at that in April ready to report to Cabinet in May both with the outcome of that review and therefore with proposed business plans. So the review is looking at this critical issue of how the company is financed and how do we get that on a more sustainable footing. So we're not seeing these huge deficits that over time that we can do with that and that's also going to include a look at the shape of the portfolio. And then the final thing just to say is you'll see somewhere in the accounts there a figure for officer support and just to say how much I think the board appreciate the support that we're getting from Andy and his colleagues in the finance team and from Gavin too. So really appreciate all the support that we get. And happy to take questions and possibly feel them to people who are better than to answer them. Thank you very much. James, Councillors, any questions or Councillor Price? Whatever. I think that the A, this is a good report. B, it was really good to see Lee Walker's name associated with it. It's really good to see Lee back doing stuff for the Council and long may that continue Lee. Nice to have you back in the room. I think I fully understand except the point in terms of the deficit of this Council more than almost anyone. So where you said it's the it's a contribution from this Council of £213,000 for the last financial year. And there's nobody in this room who thinks that that's sustainable long term. Clearly what we would like to see is an opportunity to have not costing this Council year on year. And I'm hoping that when we see that revised business plan, that will be one of the things that alongside it alongside opportunities as being that exemplar landlord in the district, in the market rent there. We're good at this, a number of landlords aren't. It's really good to have somebody to turn around and say that's the type of landlord that we should have in this district and that's a landlord that people should aspire to be in this district. And if we can do that at no cost to this Council, that's a good thing. Also, of over the net financial deficit this year to 13 disappointing, as you say, the capital of the actual value of what is there is significantly larger than the Council has paid for that value. I do not want to sell it all tomorrow and to do something else, but if one sold it all tomorrow, you would pay back the debt that is involved there and end up with a chunk of money. That capital value will continue to increase over time. I accept there's going to be a revaluation in March. I accept that the numbers on that are going to look unpleasant and you're going to turn around and say that our rent returns are much better against the capital against the capital value because suddenly the capital value has gotten down to and therefore the rent return all look like it's gone up. But long term the capital, that capital value will increase again. Long term that will go up. And that's a massive benefit to this Council and having got to a scale which I think is sustainable at this stage, there will be a question as to whether we maintain it there or whether we go further or rebuild further. I'm looking forward to seeing that business model and those things coming forward. But I think around us, you know, opportunity does present us a really helpful opportunity to do things that we couldn't otherwise do in the market rent space to be that good landlord, but we can actually demonstrate to other people that this is how you should do those things. And I hope relatively quickly we can get ourselves back to that position whereby we're not costing the Council money. I think that the issue that may have been had there is that the numbers were written as a fixed number in terms of the interest payment that was going to go back in terms of low agreement and then the world changed. And suddenly everything went wrong. I'd like us not to make that mistake again. I'd like us to make sure that we're able to flex with the times if interest rates go down, then the payments will come down if interest rates go up and payments will go up so that they reflect changes. Effectively the business model was built in a world whereby interest rates were 3% lower and for the business case stacked up at that moment and to them the world changed. If next time we cannot just pick a number and say that's the number and then turn around in two years time and go if that doesn't work anymore, but it moves up and down with a tide I think will be in a better place. But thanks very much for the report. Thank you very much, James. Yeah, it was just to come back quick on that sort of spoiler alert about the review. I think we'll have recommendations about the way interest rates are set to recognise your concern and deal with it. And I think the other thing we could do with seeing is what we've got in the year, the deficit to the council, but we need to compare that with the cumulative benefit since the company so that we can see that in context and hopefully we can have that figure too. Councillors, any other questions or I would just like to make the comment that every property company accounts that I've ever looked at and they're always asset rich and cash poor, which is exactly what we are. You know, it's a long-term capital growth investment. If we invite even year to year, which is our ambition, that's really all we can sensibly hope for because the capital growth is our investment. I'm happy to propose that we accept the report, or we note the report and note the figures. Do I have a seconder? Councillor scoffham, thank you very much. So all those in favour, please indicate. Thank you very much. Item 7, housing compliance policies, Legionella and Lyft safety. Who's going to talk us through this? Oh, you are. Well, we're done, Rebecca. Thank you. So further to the housing compliance policies which were approved by Cabinet in January and February. You now have two final policies in relation to health and safety for the housing landlord service and these cover Legionella and Lyft safety. So these policies were originally approved by Cabinet in 2021 and are due for renewal this year. The policies have been reviewed internally by officers and specialists in Legionella and Lyft safety, as well as external consultants to ensure that they reflect current legislation and best practice. Aside from changes noted at 1.3 of the report, which identify new powers by the social housing regulator to proactively intervene where councils are underperforming and at 1.4 of the report in relation to our controlled access procedure, no other significant changes have been made to the policies and there are no changes to the legal framework that underpins either policy. However, a summary of minor changes made is included in the report and these are also highlighted as track changes in the appendices. Cabinet needs to be aware of these changes and the policies updated for the council to remain compliant under regulation. So I therefore recommending that Cabinet approve the proposed changes to the council's housing compliance Legionella and Lyft safety policies as outlined in the report and I'm happy to move those recommendations. Thank you very much, Councillor Schroob. I'm very happy to second those recommendations and throw it open for discussion. Don't start me on the Legionella. I'll tell you afterwards, I know why it's called Legionella. We have a proposal. We have a seconder. Please indicate if you're in favour. Thank you very much, Councillors. Moving on to the next item which again I suspect is Councillor Schroob tenant engagement strategy. Thank you. So this report is seeking Cabinet approval for the updated tenant engagement strategy which expires next month. The current strategy which was published in 2021 is largely fit for purpose and so it's not been subject to a complete rewrite. The updated version reflects changes in policy and legislation and ensures compliance with the regulator of social housing's requirements for giving tenants of social landlords a wide range of meaningful opportunities to influence and scrutinise strategies, policies and services. Previously, the regulator had required strategies to be updated every three years but this requirement has now been removed. While the strategy will nonetheless be reviewed annually and any necessary updates made, it's proposed that this strategy presented today will run until 2030 and I'm very happy to move the recommendations of this report. Thank you very much, Councillor Schroob, very happy to second and throw it open for the bike. Any members wishing to comment? Councillor HOWLKAY. Just one comment/question around a consultation which took place three years ago and had seven comments. Given the date of that consultation and the lower up, is there, will there be ongoing opportunities for tenants to feed in, feedback, engage with the Council, given that old timeline that we're working against, it's curious. Yeah, I mean the whole purpose of the strategy is to make sure that those opportunities are embedded but I'm very happy to pass over to Mike if he's got anything to add to that. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Schroob and Councillor HOWLKAY. Yes, just to add that one of the new regulatory requirements is that we do an annual tenant satisfaction survey now and although they prescribe set questions that we have to ask, one of the other questions that we always ask is, are you interested in getting more involved in the housing service and we regularly review that and one of my team contacts the people that say they're interested to work out how it would best suit them to work with us. Fantastic. Thank you. Councillor SPEETMAN. Yeah, just a query really, around a couple of, I think, changes. The Strategic Tenant Advisory Board and the Tenant Scrutiny Panel wasn't quite a bit probably in here but I may have missed it but I wasn't quite sure. I think these are new arrangements, aren't they, from what I understand. How are they set up, how is the process of selection, who's on them, or what's the difference or wasn't quite clear from the report on that. Thank you, Councillor SPEETMAN. I may have to look to Andy for a little bit of advice on this because I wasn't here at folks in high when the Strategic Tenant Advisory Panel was first established. However, as I understand it, it was done in parallel with what was the previous Tenant Panel. The runway tenant and leaseholder board at that point and the previous chair of the STLB as was agreed to work with us while we established staff as we call them and she was involved in recruiting the new members along with managers and officers from the housing service and going forward as we have vacancies. Yeah, we do panel interviews with myself, one of my team and the chair of the panel and that's how we recruit to them. Right, so it's done through a word of mass or kind of thing. We promote it in tenant newsletters and online when we have vacancies and yeah, and again, as I was making the point earlier in the Tenant Survey, we ask if people would like to be involved and we work through it that way. Thank you very much. Thank you. Are there any other, Councillor Foila? Just a couple of quick questions. Towards the end of the report, it seems to, if I'm honest to correctly, it's kind of removed the action plan. There's no longer a list of points in that, was that? Is that because that's basically going to be produced in a separate document that can be used operationally, as it were? And also, I can't remember where I'm sorry in this now, but it might not have been the previous KPI, but the online housing service, the take-up's about 20% now, if memory says, is there going to be a plan to increase that and possibly look at integrating more of it into my account, which I'd be more than happy to help with. Thank you, Councillor Foila. Yep, so on the first point with the action plan, we're not doing away with the action plan as such, but the action plan that sat with this strategy originally was primarily needed when the housing service first came back to Council Control to make sure that tenant engagement was embedded in the work of the housing service, which it largely now is. So rather than having a separate tenant satisfaction survey action plan and a tenant engagement strategy action plan, the idea was to merge the two. We took the first draft of the updated action plans of overview and scrutiny, I think it was in February. And yeah, once we've done this year's survey results in the new strategies live, we'll update that and it'll be very much a live document. And on the second point on housing online, that's a very timely point. I had a meeting with my boss today, our chief officer for housing, and we are very keen to increase that take-up rate, so watch this space and we'll feedback. Councillor HOGAN. It's perhaps a detailed or annotated question, so if you're happy to be shoved onto an email response. But under monitoring our performance, you talk about developing a set of key performance indicators. Assuming this moves forward, how long will that take to get set up? And I assume we're not reinventing the wheel, or actually is it going to be quite a new look on how we monitor our performance? Because a supplementary question ahead is, how will we know what good looks like? Thank you, Councillor HOGAN. I'm looking over to my colleague from our performance team here, Jonathan. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jonathan. We subscribe to Housemark, which is a housing sector benchmarking service. And I believe they still have industry-standard KPIs for tenant engagement. I can chip in there. Yes, I believe they have a few. So yes, there are very few indicators about resident involvement. But yes, where we can include benchmarking, we will. But a lot of this is about how the tenants are involved in monitoring our set of KPIs that you've seen today in the performance reports and how they're involved in reviewing those, which relates specifically to tenants. Thank you, Jonathan. And yeah, just to follow up on that point, staff do get a regular update on our performance. They meet every other month and they are standing item on their agenda is to review performance data and holds to account. And I think Jonathan will agree they do that very well. Any other Councillors wishing to contribute? Can we vote while Mike is out of the room? He also here with a debate so you can go on and progress. Okay, John, are you good? Okay. So we have just timely, well done, Mike. Terrific. So we have a proposal. We have a seconder. All those in favour, please indicate. John, thank you very much. Moving on to item nine, disposal of property, South Bank, Stone Street, Stanford South. So this is me. And this is a property that was acquired in the land assembly phase of audible. As it's turned out, it's not required. It's been let since 2020 since it was acquired. But the tenants have gone and the feeling is that the property is in need of a great deal of repair. And if we were to sensibly let it going forward, we would have to spend a great deal of money on it. It doesn't really fit in with our stock profile. And therefore, the recommendation is just to sell it, get rid of it. And you'll see the figures that are set out in the pink papers for you. So the proposal will be to receive and note the report and then to authorise the Director of Housing and Operations to give them delegated authority to dispose of the property. And I'm happy to propose that and move those recommendations. Councillor Payer. Happy. With a slightly heavy heart to second, it would have been nice to have been able to make use to it. But it's outside the red line. It's north of the railway line. It does us no good for Otterpool. And as you say, it doesn't fit HRA profile terribly well. So I understand and to therefore support the logic of disposal. Councillor Fola. Thank you, Chair. I mean, obviously, you didn't detail all the specifics, but I found the back story of why we bought the property and that there was, you know, it was I found it quite interesting and how it was done to help a, you know, help some residents and that kind of thing. And although, obviously, it's not the kind of thing you could necessarily have shouted out at the time, I think it speaks well at the offices that they took that kind of decision to buy a plot of land to support people that needed that support, even though it would be interesting to hear about more detail, actually. Councillor interjecting. Yeah, I think, as my mother used to say, the road to hell is lined with good intentions, you know, but I think this is something. Now, I'm quite proud of the way in which the Council acted. And so long as we get clear of this, as long as we make our money back, then I think we can credit ourselves with a good deed there. So, we have a proposal, we have a seconder, unless there's any other comments, we can go to the vote. So, all those in favour, please indicate. Thank you very much, members. And the last item is number 10, Highview, Moat Farm Road, Folkestone, and Councillor Schruber, are you going to talk us through this one? Yes, absolutely. So, Highview was purchased by Folkstone High District Council from KCC back in December 2017, with the intention to deliver a 100% affordable housing scheme as part of the HRA. Furthermore, it was to deliver a zero carbon in use development. So, officers made significant progress with the scheme carrying out demolition and ecology works and securing planning permission for 30 affordable homes. The contract was tended to construct the scheme, but the resulting returns were considerably higher than anticipated. So, the Council was unable to deliver the scheme as originally conceived due to a significantly changed economic context, with financial pressures arising from acute and sudden interest rate rises, significant inflationary pressures within the construction sector and other competing HRA budgetary demands to meet our current and emerging stock reinvestment obligations. So, in February 2023, Cabinet resolved to pause the scheme and ask officers to investigate alternative delivery options, which included a potential disposal to a third party with the benefit of planning consent. This report informs members of the progress made since that previous reports back in February 23, and seeks to obtain approval to proceed with the sale to the preferred bidder following a marketing exercise undertaken in November 2023. Further decisions are also required to approve an amendment to the unilateral undertaking and ferry the scheme to be policy compliant at 22% affordable housing and to approve the purchase of the public right of way land from KCC and to approve the amended average agreement. I think it's fair to say both members and officers are extremely disappointed not to be able to deliver the project as originally conceived. However, the offer from the preferred bidder, combined with the Brownfield Land Release Fund, allows the Council to recoup the majority of its costs. And it's important I think to note that the Council has played an important part, an important role in bringing this Brownfield site forward, de-risking it for the market and allowing another developer to bring the scheme forward, delivering much needed homes for the district and supporting our local businesses and their supply chains, which is a matter that this Council has recently indicated strong support for. So I'm therefore moving the recommendations set out in the report. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor Shroob. Very happy to second your proposal and open it for discussion. I am trying to dare other people to go first, but I'm losing. I entirely agree with what Rebecca says and what any officer was saying as well. It's really disappointing we can't bring this scheme forward and we really can't. As a development of 30 units for our HR A, which would have been really green, it would have been something that would have been exciting for this district to be able to do, it would have been exciting for the team to deliver, it would have been that exemplar thing. And it's really difficult, as somebody who actually sat there, as this was actually brought forward a few years ago and actually did vote in favour of this thing, it's really difficult to look at something that you thought was very close and watch it go away from you. But effectively, effectively the cost of borrowing went away from us and the cost of the scheme went away with us in terms of inflation and it just, you have to, in terms of the HRA, you have to have a business plan which says the cost of this can be repaid over 40 years, 30 years, 4 here, around 40 years, and it just doesn't anymore, it just doesn't add up in any way that we can do so in terms of building of HRA. And in terms of this scheme, what has now come back is, and I know that it's a redacted report for the public, and that it says that it's eight, that we're at the stage whereby a disposal will mean that we make a small loss. I think I just want to reassure people that small does not mean hundreds of thousands of pounds, small genuinely does mean small, it's, you know, these tens of thousands is low. So we're talking a very small loss of the animal and that the site will come forward, that it will be used for housing which is good. And as is referenced within 4.4, and I think that's really important, is that though there will only be 22% affordable housing, we will look as a council very to vigorously pursue the opportunity of buying those as affordable units for this council so that they get added to our HRA, and if that can be made to work, and made it to work financially, that we will do that. And I understand that the developer supports that suggestion as well, but negotiation, we'll see where we go. So it's good to see that there may yet be a number more HRA units on that site than there were before. I certainly hope that in future and in future sites we can look at opportunities where we look at things and go well the HRA can't build them on their own and we can't afford that themselves, that we can potentially look at opportunities with opportunity tests, a math not an easy sentence, as a co-developer on a site, it might be that where building stuff for HRA alone doesn't work, building some stuff for HRA and some stuff for market rent and splitting that risk between ourselves and opportunity tests gives us a mix whereby we could bring forward more homes, not more HRA homes, but more homes that are in the ownership of the council or opportunity tests between us and that we can work together as a scheme. I don't think that this scheme is quite it ready for it, we're doing the rebalancing of the business plan for opportunity test if not the right time to do it and not the right time to make that what would be huge, significant additional commitment with them and therefore I can see why going for an external developer makes sense, it's an external developer that the council has some experience of working with and has delivered a number of other sites in the district and the finances of it we come out pretty close to break even, it's not quite break even and it's more than I want to lose but it's not as significant amount of money so again with a heavy heart and accepting what Rebecca said entirely I'm going to have to vote for this. Thank you very much, any other contributions on this? I sat on planning when this came to planning and I can't think of a scheme that I'm more enthusiastically supported than this, it had everything but unfortunately a combination of factors just works against it in delivering and so I think to reiterate what both Rebecca and Tim have said is disappointing but I think we're making the right decision so that said we have a proposal, we have a seconder all those in favour please indicate. Thank you very much members and I think that's a conclusion of our business this evening, thank you very much for attending, thank you to all the officers for attending, thank you.