Transcript

• Okay, we shall start with the first item on the agenda, apology of absence. So I have apologies for absence from Councillors Paul Cunningham, Councillor Billy Mullen, Linda Thomas and Ian Roberts and Councillor Apologies from Councilor Ant Church and please. Councillor Thomas is on line, we have received her apologies, we will mock it. - Thank you.
• You sat there with the chair, don't you remember that speaking? Can you have the decency to rise to address you please, Chair?
• Okay, thank you, Councillor Apologies.
• Please, no, thank you, declaration of interest, Councillor Palma.
• Yes, Councillor Chen's chair. So that's the personally interest only under the code to chair.
• Thank you, Councillor Palma.
• No, okay, we also need to mention just for the benefits of the recording that Julia Hughes is here as an independent member of the Standards Committee observing today's meeting. - You're welcome, thank you. Number three on the agenda to confirm as a correct record of the minutes for the meeting held on the 6th of December, 2023.
• You want to go, I'll go through it page by page. 5, page 6, page 7, page 8, page 9, page 10, Councillor Parkas.
• Chair, is it possible to know if, regarding the motion on Israel Gaza, whether the letters to the UK and Welsh government have been sent?
• I'm looking to Mr. Goodroom, who's nodding to say that yes, they have gone. Perhaps we can send a copy to members.
• Okay, thank you. So I was on page.
• That's page 9.
• Page 10, page 11, page 12, page 13, Councillor Parkas.
• Thank you, Chair. Again, is it possible to know regarding the dog ban in the ornamental gardens in mold, what the time scale is for answers to the various questions raised, and also how much money is being spent on legal fees in connection with this? - In relation to that, I can say that a response has been finalized today. I was asked to comment on it and I've sent back my comments, so they'll be taking those comments on board, so we would expect the response to be at this week. As to the request about cost, I have Councillor Parkas's email at right whilst I was away last week, and I have not had chance to reply that I will find out and send him a response check.
• Okay, thank you. Page 13, page 14, page 15.
• Thank you, Councillor Alcheter. If I got a second, everybody in favour?
• That certainly counts, Chair. - Thank you. Okay, Chair's Communication. Okay, I shall stand up. I would like to thank my Vice-Jack for all the committees, all the schools, everything he did, while I couldn't attend because of the passing of my daughter. I would like to say to you all, thank you very much for being here, for me. I had fantastic letters, fantastic cards from my fellow Councillors, officers, clerical work, legal department, they were all with me. That gave me strength, that's why I'm here today. Gave me strength, the two villages, Kigerli and Hope, they were there with me. They came out to London, they were there with me. So, not only was she loved in Hope, she was loved in England and in Wales, she was thought of greatly. I came back, I did what I could with a heavy heart, but I carry it on and as I stand here, I still carry on because that's what you want me to do. And as a fellow Councillor, from this council said to me, he said, Gladys, this is your life now. Be strong, you will not forget, but you will think every day. And I thank that Councillor very much for those words, that gave me strength as well. I have done a few schools and in particular there was a primary school that came and they called me back to go and see the school. I was very proud of this school, it's the primary school in Dryden. I'm very happy they called me back as well. I did Amistid's Day, I did Mole and I did Flint. I'm very happy that I could go out on that cold rainy day, on that cold rainy day. So I just want to say thank you very much for all of you, for all the help and the strength and everything you've done for me. As I've said, from officers right down to Cloudy Post staff, thank you. Okay, we go to item number five, partitions. Councillor David Cogan's Cogan. Thank you Chair, that was perfect. I'd like to present a petition on behalf of my residents of Minnport Fields. Despite this relatively new bill, the state being built just before the turn of the century, the road has never been adopted by flinch account to council. This is now left, this relatively small estate without any streetlights whatsoever. As many of you who may know good among it, it's sort of quite a hilly area. So my residents have been left without streetlights in the winter and on a very steep cul-de-sac. So we're calling upon the council to please adopt it with the utmost haste. Whilst we understand that there may be issues of precedence and that it may not be the council's policy to adopt the the the rogues it wasn't done to the pristine standard, we do for at some point there has to be some compassion and leniency for the fact it's a now a public safety issue and we have disabled people and elderly people living in that cul-de-sac who have to navigate a cold slippery road in the dark with no streetlights whatsoever. So I have the petition here. I will receive the petition. Thank you. And to Chair just whilst you resume your seat I'll just describe the process under the petition scheme that was adopted two years ago now in January 2022. The petition is goes to the chief executive who will then make a decision about how it is to be handled. He could refer it to committee, he can refer it to a chief officer but he will make that decision and then at the end of the year we bring a report that reviews what we've done with every petition that we've received during the year so that members will have sight of what has happened. Thank you very much. We go to other business, no, item six housing, the housing revenue account. Who's going to lead on this one? Vicki Clark. Misses Vicki Clark will lead on this. Thank you Chair. Good afternoon members. So today we want to present to you the draft HRA-30 business plan and the proposed budget for the HRA-424-25. We are seeking for Council to approve the plan this afternoon. So we've got a presentation to show you now and between the three of us we'll run through some slides before questions. Thank you. Thank you Vicki. Good afternoon members. I'm just going to take you through the first few slides relating to the investment requirements for the HRA. So I'm just going to read the very first bullet point there because that's quite important. In support of the target to have Wales net zero carbon emissions by 2050 whilst government have stated an aspirational objective to make social housing net zero by 2030. The focus of this approach is also lying to meet the critical need to mitigate fuel property. Now we've had a number of scrutiny meetings where I've provided updates with regard to the new Welsh Housing Quality Standards and also we've done some member briefing sessions on decar. Those are planned again for this for this forthcoming year along with staff workshops as well. So a very important topic of discussion, I'm sure you will agree. So the new Welsh Housing Quality Standards, WHQS as we'll refer to within this report. They landed with us in October. They were late being released. They were supposed to be weathers in March but now that we've had them the work begins. We've got a lot of work ahead of ourselves and the focus on Welsh Housing Quality Standards is linked to decab and the net zero carbon requirements. So currently the the housing stock within the HRA Council on Properties achieves a high rating of a C of the D, so a high D or low C, SAP 65 is average. What Welsh government want us to do now is achieve SAP 75 by 2030. So it says their landlords must carry out whole stock assessments and produce target energy pathways. So what does that mean for us? What we need to do is continue the good work that we've achieved back in 2020 and 21 when we achieved the original Welsh Housing Quality Standards. We need to complete a number of stock condition surveys across the Council on Stock to understand what investment is required but also understand what energy or thermal performance those properties are meeting currently and what do we need to do to bring them up to the next level. So stock condition surveys are really important but also the energy pathways which will be an energy assessment of each home which will also produce an energy performance certificate for that property. So that's something we need to comply with currently. Next slide please. So the Council we've started a two-year pilot. We were successful in obtaining a large sum of grants funded from Welsh government. Again I've conveyed to scrutiny members before. I think we I believe that we were the highest in Wales in terms of the ORP allocation so we received three million pounds and that's been invested in our housing stock. So it's aligned itself to the existing capital program the WHQS maintenance program and the first area we visited is the Boston area. So we undertook and we are still completing the work there. Envelope works so fabric first approach to a high number of properties is over 200 properties in the Boston area. We've now moved to the Leeswood area and we're making our way through the county. We focus on those properties that need the envelope works completing first as you'll know. We completed a high number of properties as part of the WHQS one program but the work still needs to continue. So we started in Boston. We started with a number of survey work to understand what each property would require and some stock condition surveys as well and we installed some IES systems, their intelligent energy systems and what they do is they provide us the council with some knowledge with regards to how is that property performing. What is its energy usage? What is the temperature and the humidity? From the works that we undertook you'll see there the fabric first approach is the right approach. We're still waiting on other things to come live so for example the grid, we're waiting for the grid to be upgraded. We're looking at hydrogen as well so they may take a few years but what can we do first? So we've continued with the work as part of the capital program we've moved to Boston Leeswood and we started to renew roofs, windows and doors. We've looked at the rendering system, we've looked at the windows that we install as well that's really important. The cavity wall insulation is extracted so we make sure those cavities are dry and we install the latest insulation materials. We've also installed solar volta voltaic panels so that the PV that you'll see we now integrate them into the roof system so we're trying to reduce the maintenance costs. We look at low energy lighting and the ventilation improvements as well that we're going to take. So the ventilation is very very important. If you think about how we insulate these properties we've also got to think of how they're going to ventilate so ventilation strategies also undertaken as well. Next slide please. So in terms of the investment what do we think it's going to cost? Well again we're in the early stages of the pilot but you'll see there that the cost that we're talking about are very very significant. We've got a large house in stock in flinture in very very good condition but we now need to focus on energy and that's what we're asking us to do. So potentially we've got an additional cost of £200 million on the already maintenance refurbishment programs that we have and that's going to equate to £20 million per annum over 10 years so a significant investment is needed. Where is the resource going to come from? Where are the materials going to come from? That's going to be a challenge. We're going to be in competition with local aerosols and authorities as well for the same contractors and resources. So again yeah very significant. To increase the EPC energy rating from our current average of 65 to 75 is going to cost us a lot of money. There's only so many things we can actually do but to get from a C to an A if we've done solar PV and we've done all the other energy measures that we can current to us what else is next and that usually means a significant level of investment. So significant costs associated to this work stream. Next slide please. We've also got the other pressures with the HQS23 as well so we've just put some bubbles on there. So in terms of we've got robust storage so we've got to think about if we've got sensitive equipment in the loft areas and we as you know we don't board loft areas for storage we don't provide any access but that's where tenants do like to store the Christmas trees and the decorations and things where they just want to put out of sight. If we need to secure these areas down because we may have batteries in there we may have again sensitive equipment relating to the solar PV's we need to think about storage. We need to think about where a tent is going to store their possessions. We'll also ask this part of WHQS to think about water retention so again water but there's anything we can harvest in terms of rain water. We need to make sure the garden's path and fencing invested in next again that's something that the tenant's asked for back in 2014 as part of the original WHQS works. We've also got fire risk works that's really really important as you agree what we've undertaken with the recent works to the high-rise and flint that work needs to continue to other blocks across the county. So again real important some fire risk. We've got car parking I think everyone will agree again in each of your ward areas you have some form of issues with traffic alleviation of that congestion and parking. So again really really important but this is all additional pressure to what we're already doing and flooring a big one as well. That was something that the tenant's T-passafederation really pushing for suitable flooring in our homes when they're when they're first allocated. Next slide please. So just bringing you on to the WHQS investment there's sort of summing up really in terms of what's required. In terms of other landlord we've been really successful in WHQS 1. We've got the team has already set up to deliver WHQS 2. We have the contractors in place we have the frameworks in place but this is in addition to what we're already doing. So we're maintaining the standard we're going to move over to the WHQS 23 but now we have to think about decarbonate 0 as well. So a lot of work ahead of us. Again you've seen the work that we've done as part of WHQS across the county so you'll see new roofs, windows, doors, the renderings being done. They look amazing. I think we can we can all be very proud of what we've all achieved together but the work needs to continue to the rest of the house and stop now with decalb as well. So we have got some legacy issues we need to deal with and we need to go back to the properties that have already had some of the refurbishment undertaken but we now need to think about decal and how that work is going to be scheduled in. So in order to achieve these new house high standards of warmth of quality to our council properties this significant investment is needed so there are some hard challenges and decisions to be made. We need to continue with the work that we have done so we remain compliant and we also need to put our attempts first in in terms of their their bills so their affordability to heat their home. Their home should be affordable they should be in good quality they should be in good standard free from disrepair but more importantly we need to continue that investment. So that's it from me in terms of an update on WHOQS. Again as I've said we'll be doing some mental workshops this year and further briefing sessions for the members as well. Thank you, thanks for being here. So a range of pressures and efficiencies have been identified and these are detailed in the reported appendix there. There's also a couple of items listed within the pressures where we've identified a risk but at this moment in time they're not included in the business plan but may have to realise a delay at a point. In terms of the pressures 900,000 of those relates to uncontrollable pressures such as pain, general inflationary increases with the remaining which we've identified are a service pressures. Since we reported to screw today a new pressure has been added into the into the table which is an additional charge for management food management support from our rents team. However we've also identified further efficiency by reducing the bad debt provision within the HRA business plan. We've identified 300,000 pounds with the efficiencies to offset the pressure so that leaves us as a net pressure of 150,000 for 24,25. Okay so in terms of rent setting this is the final year of the rent policy which commenced in 2021 and the rent policy for social housing rents is an annual uplift of CPI plus 1% and that CPI has calculated at September each year. However when CPI falls out of the 3% range then the Minister of Housing then makes the decision on a rent cap. So the rent cap for this year announced by the Minister was 6.7% and given everything that Strel has just said about the investment that we want to make and our stock and the delivery of WH-Quest 2 we've identified through the modelling that it will be necessary for us to increase council rents by a minimum of 6.5% this year to effectively balance the budget. Afternoon members. This slide is just really to show the impact of setting rents lower than the target rent cap. As your over with what Sean's just said there's significant investment required in the HRA over the coming years and apart from the pilot that is not costed within the HRA at this point in time so that is something that we've got to find from a mix of rents potentially water government funding or borrowing. So over the last two years the decision was taken to set flinch rents below the water government guideline rent cap so in 22-23 finished set the rents at 2% which is 1% 1.1% under the water government cap and in 23-24 we set the rents at 5% which is 1.5% under the water government cap. So as you can see from the table that reduces the HRAs available income streams over 30 years by 38.5 million and if we include 24-25 which is the minimum of 6.5% we need that reduce it by further 3 million. So whilst affordability for contract holders should always be an important consideration when we're setting rents we also need to balance it with the investment that we know we need in the HRA and I'll stop going forward and as you can see that's a considerable amount of money that the decisions can make on income streams going forward into the HRA. So we've also been assessing affordability for our contract holders whilst we've been looking at the rent setting and so we've identified that 60% of all our contract holders are eligible for housing benefit or universal credit support towards their rents and service charges and so the table below shows that the impact of those who are in receipt of housing benefit. So last year the HRAs set aside a £250,000 discretionary fund to assist contract holders who face financial hardship and who are engaging with us as a landlord so this was to support tenants who are struggling to pay their rents. This funding has been maintained in 24/25 but actually following scrutiny and recommendations there we've actually recommending that this has topped up to 350,000 if the HRA has served as reserves in year and also just to make everyone aware obviously if that 250,000 isn't spent in year this year then that will be rolled over and being fenced to support the fund into the next year. The other thing that we're also looking at from a rent affordability is to investigate the benefits of joining the Joseph Roundtree Foundation which is a living rent assessment model and it's a nationally recognised affordability tool for assessing social rents and they will do some benchmarking around how affordable our rents are in winter compared to across a whole of winter and in surrounding areas. We've also been undertaking some consultation with our contract holders over the last few months as you're aware that we did a star survey this year we're looking at planning on doing a further one going forward and that gave us some good feedback. We've also sent out a survey with our rent statements earlier on in the year and we've also met with a tenants federation. Now unfortunately the response rate on the survey wasn't very high and we really need to find ways to really sort of like get a wider net of of contract holders into next year and again you know any sort of recommendations are always helpful for us to be able to reach for more and more contract holders. Most respondents however were self-paced that responded on the survey and what they said was that they felt their rent was neither affordable nor unaffordable so it was just about in reach at the moment however there are some concerns over their rents but what they also placed real high importance of is the investment in their homes and as you can see that's the balance that we have between making sure that we have the money to invest in their homes and also making sure rent is affordable. We've gone to service charges and so the rent and service charges policy expects us to achieve full cost recovery for all our service charges. Again following consultation at the overuse committee we've agreed to freeze the aerial service charges until the new contract is negotiated with the assumption that we're hoping that the contract will come down in price once the contract is negotiated. So to achieve full cost recovery for the other services would bring in an additional £43,000 worth of income and the table shows what the service charges would move to. Just to note as well though that all properties are subject to all of those service charges of all our contract holders 2.8% are charged for four service charges and 5.6 are charged for three. Thank you. So we have been working with House Mike to do some operational cost benchmarking and as you can see from the slide there in terms of HRA overheads we've been benchmarked to 326 pound per property and that compares to a peer group at 387 pound per property so that includes things like premises, IT, finance, HR and other back office functions that we have. In terms of housing management costs, again against our peer group we have been benchmarked to the lower cost at 246 pound per property compared with 289 pound per property and obviously less than the services there that are covered by that benchmarking. Again further on benchmarking so this is the cost around delivery of asset management so now these costs are higher than IP a group so around major works and cyclical maintenance costs were benchmarks at 3002 pound per property in comparison with that group at just over 2000 pound per property and I'm responsive repairs and void works again we've been benchmarked higher you can see the figures there. So when we're doing the benchmarking there's not a lot of Welsh authorities benchmarks against so and we're benchmarked to look at against a lot of registered social landlords who tend to have numerous stock but also a lot of authorities in England and some of the reasons some of these costs are higher is that in Wales you know in terms of meeting our obligations around renting halls Wales and the Welsh housing quality standards we've had to invest significant amounts of money in the stock and but also as many members know we do have a new void spring work and we invest in a lot of money in voids work in the minutes so there'll be some of the reasons behind the the higher costs there. The potential borrowing assumptions in the business plan are shown in this slide so the borrowing is assumed that we pay it back over 50 years which is the estimated life of the assets. The HRAs charged a pooled interest rate of an estimate of 3.69 percent so the interest in the business plan for 24/25 is 5.6 million 5.06 million. The total borrowing in the HRAs projects to be a 140 million at the end of 24/25 and as you can see from the table we're proposing new borrowing of 8.15 million this includes investment in 50 new homes influential and also support for homelessness and regenerating funds remodeling our existing stock. As you can see also from the table just to point out we've also out of that 140 million 90 million of that was the prior debt subsidy buyout so obviously that is you know that's where our debt levels are still quite high and that will continue for the next 50 years or probably 40 years now to pay that back. Next slide please. Just moving on to reserves and in the HRA there is a requirement to hold a minimum level of reserves of 3% which is only about 160 pound per unit so it is quite low. As you are all aware reserves shouldn't be used to fund recurring pressures in the business plan and levels should also be reviewed annually to assume that they're sufficient and managing risk. So in the current climate we feel that we prudent to maintain our reserve levels at 7% which is 2.9 million as we've still got some ongoing risk to the business plan which would have to be funny from reserves if they materialize and they are such things as the pay award inflation could be higher than we're projecting and interest rates due to obviously the economic climate that we see ourselves in. Okay I just wanted to just provide some feedback from when we met with our overview of screw to the committee just so that we know that we acknowledge that recommendations made by that committee have been built into the business plan so there was two main recommendations from that discussion. One was around service charges particularly the charges around aerials so we have agreed to freeze those charges pending contract review and the other one was that we would utilize reserves if available to top up the discretionary support fund so the current level of support fund is quarter a million pound and if required we will top up to 350,000 again to support those tenants and contracts orders who are struggling to pay their rent. So that's it any questions? Councillor SRI on baby first. Thank you very much Madam Chair. First I'd like to thank the officers for the presentation and the work they've done in delivery of the HRA business plan. There is some very very significant proposals in regard to WHQS and I think I would like to add also that the fact that we've had the highest ORP allocation in Wales and we've done particularly well in the allocation of TACP fund in shows that there is a great deal of confidence that Welsh government is showing to our capital works team. In summary tenant affordability can be improved by reducing household energy bills and WHQS to capital investment will support this through the energy efficiency measures. However it will be it will require a certificate substantial capital investment from the HRA over the next 10 years and Welsh governments have not committed to any long-term funding options to support the strategy. I think the chief officer would agree with me that we're very clear in raising this issue with interactions with the minister and Welsh governments. Every 1% reduction in rents will result in a circa 15 million pounds of lost income to the housing revenue accounts over the 30 year plan. The housing revenue account can increase borrowing levels but for every 1 million of potential borrowing costs the housing revenue accounts circa 2 million pounds in total. We need to balance borrowing levels along with rental income generation to ensure that we do not create the revenue pressures for tenants in the future. This highlights the critical balance between tenant affordability and ensuring we have enough funds for key investment required in housing revenue account services and our housing stock and I think just to reiterate the comments made by the chief officer in regard to housing and overuse scrutiny. I'd like to give thanks to the chair, Councillor Helen Brown and all members of scrutiny for the very constructive debate and suggestions that they have provided to us and you know with the incorporation of the discretionary fund uplift because I think we recognise particularly with self-pay attendance who don't receive any support from the benefit system you know there is a particular concern about potential and affordability. Again as mentioned with the aerial service charges and again with the strength and corporate debt recovery process. So I'd like to formally remove the two recommendations. One, the council approved the housing revenue account 30 year business plan and budget for 24/25 I'll set out the report on the attached in appendices and recommendation two, the council agree consideration should be given in year to utilise available reserves to top up the 10 hardship fund to a cap of £350,000 if required. Thank you Councillor Veebe, Councillor Helen Brown please. Thank you. Can I formally second Councillor Sean Bibby in doing so. Can I just ask a question on 1.3 of the report which is a new pressure of 0.34 has been added to the report since overview and scrutiny met. What is that? Is that a post-person? Hi yes that is we've reviewed reviewing the allocations that stuff that were between the council fund and also the HRA and some of the people that work through the rents team are actually one of those. So we've just assessed as part of the the assessment we do as all support recharges what the split between manager time between supporting rents and also supporting housing benefits and stuff so that's the additional amount there. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Hutchish. Yes thank you. I'll also be supported this afternoon you know as someone who's been here a long time I was very proud when our tenants voted to stay with flincher county council as the landlord especially after lots of pressure from Welsh government and council officers not yourself Vicki as you wasn't here there but there was a pressure that it was going to be best you know the private sector your housing associations were going to be better and as you quite likely should be holding your presentation regarding the operational cost benchmarking you know at the end of the day we always made the point why we thought to keep the house under council the flincher county council control that it would in the end cost us more and just through your benchmarking has proved that point here today I just like to place on public record my thanks as well to the scrutiny committee and for the cabinet member shown and the chief officer team for listening and taking on board the the valid comments that came from scrutiny and you changed the report was recorded let's be forwarded so for me yes I can support this you know I do understand if we try and lower the events it has a knock on knock on effect but you know what really sort of glues I think glues is all together is the fun set aside to help people who are struggling we know that's the benefit system there but this is above and beyond that and I just thank your selfish chief officer and the cabinet member for putting that within the budget today chair thank you thank you councilor Richard Lloyd please thank you madam chair thank you can i just make a comment on the 1.07 on page 22 on the gallows rents we do have quite a few it's on the gallows plot rents and it's on the increase well then we'll be bringing in a great deal of extra money I know but five p a week increase myself and councilor show cost have done quite a few walkabouts in the area of sotney sotney ferry and the gaddies plots there are in need of a lot of maintenance and the cost comes to 95 pound a year for the gaddies once and eight a week and I don't think that figure on each gaddies plot I don't know how many gaddies plots that are in flincher but it's certainly I don't think it will cover the maintenance some of them are in in the bad states and it just it may be too late to change it now I know but I just think it should be a bit less than a hundred pound a year or a gaddies plot when the sites are in a bit of a mess and the new maintenance will grow and get a little bit stiff there as well and I just want it you know if it can't be done now in the future that it could be increased a little bit more I think it'd be well worth it just a couple of maintenance costs thank you thank you Councillor yeah thank you Chair thank you Councillor with regards to the garages that the HRA own and also the plot sites as well they've all currently been reviewed and surveyed so we've got a priority matrix based on the condition and which are rented those that are in very good condition and are being sought after and required they're being left to the end of the program so what we're actually doing is demolishing a lot of garages because they are in poor condition they're not required they're not useful for storage because of the size they're meant to store vehicles as we know vehicles are getting larger so what we do in the HRA we look at the sites that are in the worst condition we prioritise the demolition of those sites and we ascertain whether we could utilise them for car parking for existing council talents whether we potentially could build on these these sites or whether we look at green spaces as well so there are some garages that we won't be able to demolish because they form part of the structure but we are continuing with that review so we do have a a matrix we do have a program and that has been raised exclusively so quite happy to have this conversation I'll find as well okay this is not French owned garages this is people at their own garages on French or land some of them do do want taking away that in data position condition so they're not none of them are council owned garages and have been looked at for housing in the past I know I mean a bit of a bit of thought in my side since 2012 to try and find out who pays the rents because people pass away of course and then somebody will take you over and they'll pay the rents or they'll just remain just to fall apart really so I think they do need looking at further we've I've looked at them many times with different offices over the years you know and it's still ongoing something I'd love to sort out and they're just to get a larger charge for people's own garages on them blocks would help with the maintenance that was me only here if I mentioned it right thank you thank you council can can I just indulge myself and say about garages who monitors the garages because I know it's certainly there is some garages that has fallen through the net and rent is not collected thank you chair in terms of just the first question from the council that includes plot sites but yes we will be we can look at that certainly because there are some structures that will remain on those sites that we have with regards to the garages they are reviewed annually in terms of the rent but also monthly we do stock condition surveys on those garages well to ascertain the condition of those sites so regular checks are undertaken but if you're aware of any garages in particular you feed them back to me directly and I can certainly look into that further thank you Councillor David, Councillor Richard Jones sorry thank you chair my mind's in relation to some wording really on page 18 where you've got the kind of narrative on the bottom which has just disappeared off your screen on the very bottom of that page 18 it says the graph indicates the majority of hra income I think what I should say is the majority of hra funding is derived from hra income but it is it's not quite worded correctly it's very small item but that's just make it perfect thank you thank you Councillor Councillor David Colgan Colgan Colgan Colgan I always get this wrong don't worry I think everyone knows it's me don't worry I know it's you you know it's me and that's all that that's all I care for thank you to the officers for preparing the report I just want to know page 22 item 106 68 percent are eligible for housing benefit what percentage actually claim the housing benefit and is any help given to people who are eligible but haven't claimed jet about the garages 319,000 on page 22 item 107 what occupancy rate is that of the garages I only ask because I'm afraid I'm going to be another born in cancer and raise garages with you but in my ward the garages serve guanamunive on the trunk road so my residents have nowhere else to park there's no rent for them to park and if those garages get demolished they will have nothing so I was like alarmed that you might be looking at building on these sites so I just please do not build on those garages there please try and keep them in a good state to repair but what occupancy rates I know because most of the garages ongoing amount of are fine because they've been assessed by an officer there are people waiting like the waiting this has been on for years since before I was elected 18 months ago and not a single new tenancy has been written because of I've had conflicting answers by email from various officers so I don't know what the precise issue is but there has been a conflict so just like to know what the occupancy rate is because I know the garages in my ward could be rented out there's like five people who regularly contact me that could be rented out now and then I think just how many because I have to complain about the stats I'm afraid because it's my regular winching but in reports it mentions sort of 1.76% of contract holders 2.8% of contract holders 5.6% of contract holders how many contract holders I just want to know what the real number is because if you don't give a real number and just hand a percentage to me it was a bit meaningless so just to have those figures will be used for in future reports and yes that's everything thank you thank you council yes thank you chair thank you council with regards to the garages in Guatemala I certainly have that discussion with you away from this meeting today and we can assess what the ratings are in terms of the lettings but also where they are on terms of the matrix in terms of what future works are proposed for those carries sites as I've mentioned before we do look at park in first so we look at what HRA council and properties within that area but also as part of WHQS we do have a community wide obligation as well so we need to think about the alleviation of congestion and traffic and other issues on the highway so if some of the HRA land can be utilized to further improve the community not just for council residents but for the communities as a whole that's one that we always consider before we say this is going to be built upon and we have that consultation with you as a member as well initially before any works proceed so okay on that on that point if I can just add as well at the moment we're assuming in the business plan there's just over a thousand pounds just a thousand properties of garages at the moment however we actually are assuming quite high void rate we're about just under 50 percent any more speakers chair chair yes oh sorry I just want to get the answer on the centre housing benefit claimants were seen eligible so thank you and councilor Sean big yeah thank you very much Madam chair just just as I know a couple of the issues have come up if members do have any particular issues regarding garage sites then as Sean said I'm very welcome as cabinet member and Sean is the officer if the contact us directly and then we can have a discussion outside the meeting in regards to that and just also to note just with the change in the report if we can put the actual figures as suggested by councilor Coggin scoggin and also the change of terminology suggested by councilor Richard Jones thank you I'll just come back can you point around housing benefit yeah so it's 68 percent of people who are eligible and claim for housing benefit but just to reassure members that we work every course in the contract holders around their eligibility and we regularly conduct assessments so we do try and promote and make sure that people are claiming the benefits they're entitled to yeah we'll definitely pick up those points but the 1.76 percent in terms of responsibility I think was around 180 contracts holders came back to us so thank you thank you thank you for that I would like to ask a question here regarding light pollution I believe you are improving the lights what sort of lights are you going to be using because I believe LED lights are more efficient but yet they are not good for your health and if light pollution it has a ripple effect which which gets in in the way of your health deprivation of sleep and if you can enlighten me thank you thank you chair yeah in terms of um well I was in quality standards they do ask that we assess the lighting within our communities they do promote the use of security lights especially on sheltered accommodation however they are very clear to say that it shouldn't cause a nuisance to the community to the highway again in terms of LED lighting it is very efficient it can increase the sap energy score of a property so again that is something we're looking at but again mindful of light pollution it's it is within the Welsh housing quality standards so we can't go and put security lights on the front elevations the real elevations of every property unfortunately because that will cause a nuisance for the for the highway and community so yeah okay thank you as Sean Bebe has he's exercised his right so there will be no more speakers thank you very much okay I will ask for the vote please all in favour certainly everybody in the room chair and I think that might be everybody on yes it is everybody online thank you very much so we go on to item seven on the agenda I haven't said yet what it was it could be anything comes later item seven um treasurer's management of mid mid-year review two thousand twenty three two thousand twenty four yeah thanks chair um the report presents the mid-year report for our treasury management activity for two thousand twenty three twenty four the report was reviewed in detail by governance and order committee on the 22nd of November and also by cabinet on the 19th of December and there's no significant issues raised at those meetings to bring to your attention this afternoon summary the key points of the report has shown in 104 to 106 for example back in September the Bank of England decided to keep the bank rate on hold at 5.25 percent and that was against the expectation at the time of another 0.25 percent rise our own treasury management advisor having close also revised their internal forecast to reflect the central view that the 5.25 currently will now be the peak in the bank rate no new borrowing was undertaken on the first half of this year although 870,000 of existing loans were allowed to mature without replacement so this obviously allowed the council to reduce net borrowing costs one of six just confirms that the average investment balance for the period was 48.4 million and the average rate of return our investment was 4.58 percent so obviously allowed the council to achieve a significant amount of additional income in year and that's been reported through the multi-budget monitoring process I'm just to show members that the treasury function has operated fully within the limits detailed in the approved treasury management strategy so Chris I'm so happy to take any clarifications or questions okay council appears thanks reports Gary it is a clarification and a question related to the lobo borrowing on page 37 when you look at the description of lobo it states that the interest rate is fixed on page 47 the second line in 404 says that 18.95 million is variable in the form of lobo so I'm just trying to clarify where we are with that on 406 under lobo the lender has the option to increase the rates at a set date that's that's quite clear in there it goes on to save the lender does exercise the option the county council will repay the loans either by available cash or further borrowing and I presume that would be at a lower rate otherwise you may just carry on so where it says so first of all could you confirm whether it's fixed or variable and if the council repay the lane we play the loans by available cash do we have the cash is it available where is it at the present time or if the option is to borrow over what term would that take place yeah so just to pick on council appears question a is a fixed fixed rate the lobo set up we classify it as variable cost our option is there every year or twice a year for the lender to increase the rate so the rates fixed and they have to come forward and agree any increase but that hasn't happened to date so in terms of how we report it it's always reported this variable cost that option is in place twice a year for them to be able to call yeah in terms of any maturity or paying back we we pay out with surplus cash we have at the time and we probably would then look to do some long-term borrowing but we take our time to look at what deals best and then replace it so we want to rush into it okay come for that yeah thank you thank you yeah the the amount involved is 18.95 million so when you say if you have the surplus cash you would pay it do we have that i think we don't and if you were to borrow what would be the term those are the questions i have previously and i'm sure thank you come yeah obviously our cash flow changes on a daily basis depending on the outgoings and then goings if we had prior notification that they were going to change the rate at the moment in time we could obviously build that cash up in advance of of that date where it's had to give a definitive answer because obviously cash flow is something we look at on a daily basis we've got cash flow forecast at a high level obviously significant things change what the council needs to pay for and grants come in and a whole host of other things yeah our investment levels are around 38 million as it stands today but the 18 million is not actually from one loan it's split over three so that repayment risks minimize so it's three lots of six million so that helps with any sort of repayment at that time so the risk is not all all there at once it's not very broad tips we look at the best deal available after that moment in time should that that eventuality materialize from the fact thank you any more questions can i have a seconder for this yes paul johnson counsellor paul johnson or you just secondly okay counsellor bb was that a question uh no battle chair okay thank you yeah vote yeah uh can we go to the former vote all in favor that's carried chair thank you any against any abstentions one two two so that's 55 to the chair okay thank you very much agenda item eight review of polling districts and polling places for polling stations uh the chief executive will have a word on this present the report yes yeah i'll present the report chair very briefly so uh this is in relation to uh as you're quite rightly stated polling stations polling places and uh polling districts the legislation is detailed in section 101 the report um i guess the key uh an obvious statement in the report is that we have to provide reasonable so it is um the basic premises that the county council is responsible for determining the polling district boundaries um so they live with the council itself um 103 sets out some criteria in relation to how the review has been adopted i should have said uh the review needs to be taken undertaking every five years the council is as i pointed out responsible designated polling places the returning officer is responsible for determining determining the uh sorry i'll get i'll get that right in a minute the council is responsible for designating the polling places um an authority for determining where the polling station uh is within the polling place is the returning officer the public notices of review were published by the count on the council's website on the night of october and the consultation closed on the 17th of uh sorry october and the consultation closed on 17th November 50 representations were received there is um some clarification that's required at 106.6 it refers to the closure of Parkfield's community center that's not correct for it should have referred to glenravon uh center um so that's a correction in relation to that the um acting return officer comments for the new constituencies of lnd side included east uh were published on May the 20th uh sorry on monday i'm not doing very well here today i am monday the monday the 20th of november and there there are appendix one and final proposals are appendix two um i'll hand over to lennie who might make a better fist of it than i am this afternoon uh for any questions thank you very much chair i'd like to formally move this report and thank the officers and lenn phillips for the work that's been done here because i know there have been a few changes that have been needed to be made because for the polling stations i'd like to add a few comments and particularly ask a question about if were any further down the road with regard to identifying the polling station from my ward of cagoli um where unfortunately the venue is no longer available that was used in the past for a number of years the school room of the presbyterian church in cagoli in high street which was a very central location and very convenient it is no longer available because that church is closed and um in fact the building is now officially up for sale uh local people knew that this was likely to happen and the number of us got together and formed a charity called hub cagoli that went all out to try to raise the funds in order to secure that building as a community hub because the people of cagoli tell me they believe it's one of the few villages in influential that doesn't actually have a village hall as such so i know there is a bit of a dilemma as to what the alternative venue is for the polling station and i'd really like to express thanks to the northern presbyterian church because i was one of the trustees of hub cagoli and they did give us a reasonable venn um windows to find the funding to purchase that building and we had on in person and online a number of very constructive conversations with them the hub cagoli also had very constructive conversations with the world's government in pursuing 50 percent of the funding for that so that that community would have been able to retain this as community as such however we were dependent on the uk government leveling up fund to provide the match funding and therein lies the problem because at the end of the day although i do believe and i compliment the trustees of hub cagoli in doing this that we did have a really robust case that was presented in fact the leveling up fund did not produce leveling up fund for that particular part of flincher and i think it's true to say that across flincher we have not benefited from uk leveling up funding in in any way whatsoever but thank you i'm moving the report but i'm also asking of the various alternatives should be explored if we have now managed to nail what the strongest possibility is for a venue with our polling station thank you yes thank you for the question um in appendix two point one oh three new polling place for cagoli so we will be using the boys brigade we were the boys brigade hall so we were fortunate to inspect three potent alternative venues but we found that that hall was most suitable thank you councilor etchich yes yeah i'll be providing a second the most but i'd like to add a third recommendation that uh where there's no say that uh officers of the county council will go and view and have a look at the locations i'm asking that this is is doing consultation with the local members uh concerned that they are consulted and their views are taken on board too if we could add that as a third recommendation that's just for the ones that would agree chair there's no they don't need to but there's there's three or four look there's definitely one in koski that i've seen that the officers are going to go away and have a uh have a look uh at alternative one because the one sort of st. David's church hall doesn't meet the criteria uh for it and you know the only place left in weapons south is what the local members have put forward so as long as local members across legion are consulted madam chair if you'd uh it's a proposal dave or accept that extra uh one add it to it uh i for me second thank you councilor trit and i totally agree with you that uh the local members need to be concentrated and asked is this appropriate or not i totally agree thank you okay uh yes i can respond and this consultation was open to all members and and then when we had areas that we couldn't resolve then i did consult the local members individually on each police station there's only one that we haven't designated yet and because the proposed that was suggested isn't the most suitable location um so we are i might have asked for the questions if they can identify anything you know or the suit of venue within the area okay i just just just come back thank you i appreciate if it's only if it's only the one in koski you know the issue for koski members and for koski town council it's a it's a it's a flingey county council old building that is the only building within weapons south you know the st david was in in the normal weapon ward it is only the location left you know they don't have any churches they don't have nothing the school gets used anyway because that's the top of the hill further down so you know for all konski residents or local members are certainly up for it you know we although you know there may be issues that that have been highlighted well i say to that if if if the council if we if the building is owned by us and we're content to let general members of the public in there when it is open i really don't see how it can be not be used for you know if the the local members can be consulted on it because they're really really uh concerned you know they they're really wants that green room at web above to be used in the south and so does all result in konski town council they work the same as well thank you jeff thank you go on to the outreach uh blin phillips if you want to answer yeah i mean we haven't disregarded that our concerns was or that poem that i was uh from seven till ten p.m so while it's a election in may say it might be suitable because it's bright but what it's the access to it um so we have to take the survey the area and it's about lighting there when it gets dark because we've got to think about obviously like this walk and to the to that venue okay well it's something we can continue to look at but yeah you're incorrect you we do worry about elections later in the year when when it's not as bright and uh you know it's looking like we might be having a general election later in the year you know it's november time or whenever so yeah it might be a bit of a long walk in the cold and wet but we can certainly continue to talk to local members about that chair and indeed as lyn says when we can't identify when we add it when we lose an existing polling place the first point of call is actually the local member to ask them whether they can identify a an alternative polling venue for us because of course as members you know your words better than we do thank you chair we've got a list of counselors who've indicated counselors bibby wren piers and then simon shins so counselor bibby yeah thank you very much madam chair i'm going to uh quite detail on the point because probably prefer to leave that to konski members but just out of my experience being involved in numerous general elections and senate elections and local elections i do always recall that say david's church hall was quite significantly away from its actual the polling district and i can always note that turn out there used to be quite sluggish and the poll clerks always used to say that it was trying to get people to come down the hill uh so i really hope that that alternative venue can be secured in the southward i won't go into uh further detail because i appreciate pabstall wren is speak it thank you and and chair this indicates the problem that we have as a county council because of course the number of community buildings is dwindling over years and um we try to avoid using schools although in some places we do and we have to but we do try and avoid disrupting schools by closing them in order to uh use them as a polling place if we can avoid it although ironically that is the one type of premises over which we actually have control under the legislation the legislation says that as a county council we can commandeer any school within i can draw within the county for use as a polling place but we don't want to because of safeguarding consent so this is a real challenge for us as as is the number of community buildings uh keep us at campford wren then campford peers and campford simon jones councillor wren please um thank you chair yeah it's just a follow-on from councilor archery and the the ward we're talking about konski southward is represented by myself and councillor crease um yes st david's church hall is no longer available and as part of the consultation process i suggest personally the green room at weapon visitors center um i've got a email back from elections in the 14th where they raised concerns on its suitability but both councillor crease and myself believe it's the only suitable venue within weapon park within weapon uh southward sorry um and just simply request to be invited to attend when the venue will be inspected for its suitability over the next coming weeks thank you thank you again for yeah i have inspected the premises and i've taken photographs so happy to share the photographs with you i've got them here so i can after this meeting i've taken you know the access to it and also happy to have a site visit with you as well okay thank you council appears all right thank you thank you uh i refer to the report uh one zero six on page sixty item three which is the hawksbury community center in buckley uh prior to the 2022 election in the normal way i was consulted by um laine looking for if we had any further suggestions and as it says there in three there had been a number of issues and complaints which i don't need to go into this stage and i suggested an alternative at some johns on hawksbury road so i've actually tested that at the 2022 election and it was excellent the problem at hawksbury is the access and egress it's a very narrow track so a car coming in and a car coming out have problems uh traffic lights have been installed adjacent to the junction sometimes it's blocked so it was a lot better to go there and the proposal in the report is that the electorate from mountain ward also go there i don't think counselor ellis is on today i don't know she's give her apology but i have discussed it and i think she would welcome the move over to uh some johns so uh i think you know i can fully support the proposal there and maybe it is on behalf of counselor ellis who's not here to speak but i know we have discussed it and from our point of view and i'm sure it councilor chinson uh wanted to add anything it proved excellent excellent parking facilities and uh yeah it was uh the hundred percent improvement thank you thank you counsel yeah yeah i fully concur with what counselor please have said it was by far superior to what we'd had before i'm certainly support thank you Simon jones thank you chair um as as you all know in the chamber i'm a champion for democracy uh for following my failed attempts to get PR through a few few times um i would like to ask the question uh will free car parking be provided in council car parks nearest the polling station one example for instance is the daniel erwin center that has a paid for car park next door if we're not providing free parking we are asking people to pay to park and therefore pay to vote thank you thank you that's an issue that would have to be referred to kapanese sure it's parking parking policy isn't set by the county council pete is set by kapanese as a distinct entity the subdivision within the council so uh but certainly um happy to raise that uh with the relevant portfolio honda counselor jones richard jones thank you chair yeah i'd just like to support um what council appears has said i think uh the changes on the road and the fact that the single track to the hawksbury area was difficult and i'm sure st jones it's a much more open area lot more park and it'll be a lot a lot better place as uh on bokley bistice east um the bistice methodist schoolroom which used to be on spongering which used to be the polling station and we used um lady the rosary uh in the 2022 elections which was significantly better especially in terms of parking but in size uh lighting i think it's a perfect perfect venue and happy to support that one as well thank you chair thank you council okay anymore i can't see any other speakers chair um i don't know whether the mover would like to exercise the right apply yeah seems to be down at the moment no i'll take that as a no chair okay no okay thank you was you would absolutely would you like to reply councilor davity sorry could you repeat the question the chair was wanting to know whether you wanted to exercise your right or apply campster heli as the mover of the motion actually know what the question was i won't reply okay no we just go to the right chair okay uh we go into the vote all in favor so that's the other mr yeah thank you we come to our item number nine thank you council a recruitment of town and community council representative of the standard committee i'll be very brief chair we must have a town and community council representative on the standards committee we elected one in october 2022 unfortunately he's not well and needs to stand down um you'll see from the report that i proposed that using the same process that we used last time which puts control of the choice in the hands of the town and community councils themselves because after all it is their representative i have already because it takes such a long time to elect somebody because of course uh town and community councils meet only once a month so you ask if i've already taken the liberty of writing to them to ask for nominations otherwise we'd have missed the month of january and it would therefore be you know we wouldn't be asked writing through until february and so on so that would have delayed us so i have written to town and community councils asking for nominations already um and i will bring back a report in due course to council for council to uh to a formula point whoever is the choice of the town and community councils chair okay um so it has been formally moved but council through sakambri has indicated to speak chair councilor thank you chair i was simply going to um formal recommendations within the report i would like to however thank the council re and pop work on behalf of the standards committee for his diligence and his hard work we all appreciate it his work thank you thank you councilor carway the councilor today thank you and move in the recommendations that before it was it worked well the last time for uh the way you know the council has explained that we chose it and get put in the hands of community councils i'd also like to echo the words of councilor carway to the previous uh councilor pakworth it was uh the representative prior and i echo the sentiments uh and if the council counts and a letter on behalf of members to thank him for his don't matter how many years that he's done but uh if we could do that chair i so i fully move thank you thank you councilor council appears yes thank you um chair it's on the uh clarification that's in uh section uh section 105 it asks for a pen portrait um do you by the end of january well i know the nominations don't go until the second of february so it's just a point of clarification on that thank you chair i i when i wrote the report um i was thinking will do it to the end of january the second of february is the friday of that week uh so actually we did it camps the biz is correct we did give until the second of february um for those for those pen portraits to come in uh and those pen portraits as members i'm sure will appreciate it's to let people know across the county uh who councilor so-and-so is you know if there's a nominee from from bookley or a council a nominee from mold and somebody in chriscoll might not know who they are so those short pen portraits uh are to enable tan community councils to understand who they're voting for thank you we have already had two nominations i'm pleased to say still plenty of time yet of course because we're only halfway through the month trying to drum off of it business chair thank you thank you um so do we take a vote question yeah um no more questions no okay we go to the vote please all in favor that's unanimous against you thank you thank you for that um we go to gender number 10 there weren't any questions yet there was no questions thank you um agenda number 12 question 11 sorry um questions on page so that's questions from county council chair and there is one on page 85 of the agenda yeah okay yeah councilor samswash thank you chair um when a French resident is required to use a certain type of vehicle because of health issues or a disability and that vehicle is prohibited from using flinchers household recycling centers what reasonable adjustment does this council make for residents in such a position and if no reason of adjustment is being made is the council confident it is not in breach of the equality act 2010 okay so that's questions council Hughes question will be answered by keith it is when he just give him let me give him a minute just to find the answer microphone please council Hughes the household recycling center vehicle permit policy is in place to to control access to the sites with the aim of promoting a safe working environment and prevent the illegal disposal of trade waste from businesses the policy was reviewed and implemented in 2022 with a further review undertaken in 2023 with some amendments included to support those with a health issue or disability that required alternative adapted vehicles to manage their mobility section 2.1 vehicles do not require a vehicle permit the policy states that following the mobility vehicle size must be within the restrictions of the policy standard or low roof elevation between 7 foot or 2.14 meters and must have a mobility aid modification this ensures that residents requiring adapted vehicles have unrestricted access there is no provision in the policy to allow a person in possession of a blue badge to be exempt from the policy requirements thank you chair if there is a specific case that the council has in mind then if he hasn't already done so Ruth Tully is the senior manager responsible for the service uh and it might be uh you might be well to have a chat with with Ruth if that hasn't happened already it may well have done i mentioned that in case it happens okay okay councilor sam he has a follow the right to ask a follow-up question chair yeah if you want to ask a follow-up question thank you chair i have been attempting to go via the council for the last seven months on this particular case and haven't had a response which has led me to asking this question in a public forum the question of whether the council is confident it is not in breach of the equality act 2010 has not been addressed by this answer section 20 the act sets out the process of an authority must follow in considering setting aside a policy in order to allow a person who is disabled to access a service that somebody who is not disabled can access the council hasn't followed this process in the answer provided the current policy has been restated this is the policy that the vehicle my resident requires as a result of a disability is excluded by so my supplementary question is simple will the council provide a reasonable adjustment enabling my constituent to access the household recycling service and comply with its obligations under the equality act 2010 chair it's very disappointing to hear the seven that he's been waiting seven months can i ask and it'll be fair is there an issue i was asked to be asked me to speak chair did call you to speak i did hear her if she did pointed at me i think she might have been pointing to council accused of him the question i know some suggested council huge he pointed what comes to a judge all right okay so i wanted you to help it can't it can't be used to answer the question uh and he's just saying how can you still answer the question and please thank you madam chair i have i have made a promise to to council swash that i will arrange a meeting with Ruth trolley and we'll have a look at it and in this case that we will look at maybe um an exception on the on the case that he's talking about and a real look at the policy to see if we can get over this at these issues thank you and hopefully chair that answers the point the council rat who was trying to raise and chair before we well i can see another council is indicated we do not debate the answers to questions chair they are taken and answered without debate i i i i appreciate the council's trying to help but we we we don't debate the answers to questions agenda item 12 there weren't any questions on the minutes and then okay again sorry sir uh so agenda item 13 no no notice of emotions they were they were non-chair so that concludes the business chair that concludes our business um and i closed the council all rise please for the chair of french council