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[BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Thank you. The next question is from Jan Reiland, who's asked if I could read it out on her behalf. She's unable to attend it, unfortunately. Prior to COVID, my daughter attended three different day services, including Christchurch Connect. Two of the day services, both run by livability, have since closed permanently. So now Christchurch Connect is her only service. Also, after reading that the proposal said that community halls could be used, I have briefly researched hiring public venues, and I have found that availability was very limited. My problem is picturing what a future without Christchurch's connect would look like. My question is, can anyone outline what my daughter's day would look like regarding transport, venue, safety, activities and staff? Is there a clear vision of an alternative? [BLANKAUDIO] Thank you. Yes. Thank you for the question. We recognize the value of day service buildings, and therefore proposing that following the presentation feedback Christchurch Connect remains open. There is always also recognition that the community-based day opportunities market requires development and investment to provide alternative options for people to access. We already have a small but thriving provision of community-based day opportunities, which include smaller organizations who run services by paid staff, and for some provide their own transport to and from the service. These services access community resources, such as church halls, libraries, community centers, and council owned buildings. And we intend to ensure that any capacity of remaining Trichiro day services allows rental of space for community groups. We acknowledge that for some people, a community-based option may not be an appropriate provision, depending on their needs. Therefore, the day opportunity strategy promotes a mixed model of buildings-based services and the development of community-based day opportunities. It's intended that this will lead to a greater range and choice for people to access services that meet their needs and wishes. So thank you, Kelsey Brown. We'll move on to the next one. Can I invite Mr. Neil jewelry to present to the committee, please. Thank you. Okay, statement. Our adult son, Peter, has Down syndrome and autism. His care needs are challenging and complex, and his vulnerability demands high levels of professional and expert care. Apart from providing a safe and secure environment, the staff and management of the existing day centers understand Peter's needs and the importance of continuity and consistency of care. This professionalism allows us to enjoy some essential respites safe in the knowledge that Peter is being well looked after and safeguarded. We recognize the severe financial pressures on BCP Council and appreciate that our professionally managed day centers cost more than other types of day opportunities. That said, they are tried and tested and fit for purpose, and it is important when comparing alternatives to compare like for like. I fear that the level of support and care presently provided by our day centers is unlikely to be present in many of the alternative being considered. My first question. As my wife and I get older, we need the peace of mind and continuity, the present date building based provision affords. Many of the strategies proposed day opportunity providers have opened or policies. This will be totally unsuitable for the safety of our son. Independent private sector providers use the use of community halls and such buildings, which from previous experience, often lack reliable services, e.g. adequate heating, hot running water, cleanliness, etc. I feel my wife and I with anxiety for the health, safety, comfort and mental well being of our son and other clients. Most of the current clients assessing the building based day centers need continuity in their lives. Without continuity, their anxiety levels will cause distress for them and their carers. As any consideration being given to the potential damage, this will cause to these vulnerable individuals and carers already under extreme daily pressure, 365 days of the year. Question two. Do you want to answer that one first, Casa? Thank you for your statement and your question. We recognize the value of day service buildings and are therefore proposing that following consultation feedback Christ Church connect where we understand your son needs to attend should remain open. We acknowledge that for some people, a community based option may not be an appropriate provision, depending on their needs. Following the consultation and dropping sessions that we arranged in January, 2024, we have incorporated the concerns of carers and those who access trichiro day services in the papers provided for the health and adult social care community and for cabinet on Wednesday. The potential closures of services have been subject to inequalities impact assessment, as per the papers for these meetings have identified the following risk factors. So for people with a disability, a risk of change for those with dementia, some mental health conditions, learning disability and oral autism. This includes negatively impacting the health and wellbeing of a person, lack of continuity of care, loss of risk relationships with other people using the service, and they're starting and establishing new relationships in alternative service. As the risk of being unable to meet a person's needs, change and/or increase in travel may be a barrier for those with complex disabilities and conditions. Change could disproportionately negatively impact those who are socially isolated and/or have neuro diverse conditions such as autism. And for carers, there's the risk that being unable to meet a cared full person's needs may negatively impact on the ability of carers to fulfill their role. The risk of loss of relationships and support networks for carers, and the risk of increasing care a strain. The recommended proposal for the future of trichiro day services is therefore the connect services to remain open and incorporate high-cliff Wallace down and Westbourne plus services that were already based there. In addition, Paul plus to be relocated to Parkstone Connect and more down plus service to remain open. The high-cliff Wallace down Westbourne and Paul plus original sites would be closed. We hope that this ensures you that we've listened to people's concerns and provided an option that continues to meet the needs of people who access trichiro day services and their carers. Please. Do you want to ask your second question? Well, I think I should, although a lot of the points have been covered care. This was kind of drafted some time ago. Please, I think it's worth actually saying stating, but it just it just endorses that. Okay, during the previous. Oh, sorry. What's the name of this? Oh, overview and screw it isn't up. Oh, yes. Sorry. During the previous overview and security council meeting, Council salmon asked Mr Gillings to explain why there was such a difference between the cost of day opportunity. By individual community workers, community groups and independently run private companies offering day opportunities and existing and the existing trichiro connect day centres. This question was not answered during the meeting and my suspicion being that the independent and private sector operates on profit motives and operates with the inexperienced and reduced staff levels. Meaning corners will be cut along with staff pay and the quality and the quality of training resulting in a service which is not fit for purpose. Can Mr Gillings please answer that Mr Councillor Sammons question on this satisfactory. Sorry to put that on. I think also council brown to answer that. Oh, right. Okay. I'm happy to answer that, but obviously the answer has been prepared in consultation with scaling. So hopefully you can give you a full and factual response. Excuse me. So sorry. Right. Okay. I'm going to go. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, and I recall the question at the last overview and scrutiny committee meeting as well. So following the consultation work and attendance at the health and adult social care over and scrutiny committee on 15th January. We subsequently met with the debut duties co-production group on the 24th of January, which you kindly attended following feedback from this meeting. We met again as a group on the 9th February appreciating you didn't attend that meeting on the 9th February to confirm revisions to the strategy. As a result, we added into the finalised strategy the following notes regarding the cost of building base day services. Building base day services are often more expensive due to a range of factors, including managing the needs of a more complex group of people, including personal care and a range of health issues and staffing costs related to this maintenance and running costs of a building potentially owned by the company and for tricuero services, having previously employed council staff on different terms and conditions in regard to pay and pension schemes. We also added the following definition of community based provision into the strategy as there was a need to define these services. So this is as follows community based day opportunities are defining as smaller organisations that may or may not use a building in the community to run their services from, but a not purpose built day service buildings. These services tend to provide for a smaller number of people with less complex needs, but have paid members of staff and assurances associated with the buildings base day services service, such as insurance in place, training for staff, staff checks, such as DBS quality assurance measures, policies, etc. We as a council have successfully commissioned these services for many years from existing providers who are primarily charitable or not for profit organisations. Our experience has been that the safety and outcomes for those accessing these services has been positive and the cost implications have been competitive. The daily opportunity strategy therefore proposes a mixed model of buildings based services and the development of a community based day opportunities to meet the needs and wishes of people who access services and their carers now and in the future. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr Jerry. Thank you very much for coming. And I think we have one more statement. Yes, if I'd like to invite Mr Hardcastle up to present, please. My name is John Hardcastle and my wife, a liar carers, a young man who goes to cross church connect. Pleasure of the day says we're a person enormous burden on parents and guardians of the users. Many are elderly, certainly advancing in age, and we're unable to cope, resulting in many of the users having to be housed by the local authority at a great cost to the public. In parks and outdoor spaces cafes local halls will not be simple for many of the users. Those on the electric spectrum need need every team. Many users have some particularly has an obsession with food. Therefore cafes are out of the question using parks we weather dependent and local halls have already heard already heavily bought. Staff will have difficulty in coping with medical behavioral situations in the wider community. Those are autistic spectrum need some requires and calm a sensory room possibly if and when they have meltdowns. Some users and again, some typically this tend to wander off. Will the staff be able to cope with deep and safe if they do. Many users need to feel safe. I'm not sure if they will, if they are having to meet in various different locations. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for coming. I'm going to move on if I may then to item six, which is the day opportunities strategy. And I'm going to ask Kevin Gillings if you would introduce this item please. Thank you chair. I just have a presentation to share which I'm going to try and pull up now. So, thank you for inviting me this evening. My name is Kevin Gillings. I'm the commission manager for disabilities, which also includes day opportunities. Day opportunities just to be clear can mean different things to different people. They're about learning new skills, taking part in a wide range of hobbies and interests, access in the community. They're also about supported employment, which is about supporting people with disabilities to be able to engage and consider paid employment or long term voluntary opportunities. And very importantly, for people who attend, it's about developing friendships and support networks. The term day opportunities will be used in this presentation when referring to all potential activities defined above, as opposed to terms day services, day sensors or daycare, which tends to have an association with the provision of building based services. It's given an idea of day opportunities, which encompass building based services and also community based activities as well and community based service. We have a short excerpt, which I'm just going to show from people who use services. And hopefully they will be explained much better what day opportunities are than I can. That's playing. Try again. Thank you. My name is Professor Alice Macera. I'm making flowcastles. So this is some flowers, isn't it? No, it can't be felt. I love poetry so much. I do my artist's work. [MUSIC] One of my favourite activities, a question is my favourite thing is going swimming. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] Just before you continue, just need to apologize to members of the public because that video wasn't transmitted through the lime stream. So they've been watching us, watching that, I'm afraid. But apologies for that, but please continue. Hopefully you can see this again. It's back on the screens, I hope, and we will send the link as well if we can afterwards as well for anyone who wishes to access that. So we've been working on a day opportunity strategy for the last two years, very much in co-production. Co-production is when we work with people to achieve things together and co-production group has consisted of really about 200 individuals and organisations within that. And we have very much worked with people who use services, people who rely on services, which is carers, those people who provide services, advocacy groups, also NHS, and other local authorities and councillors have been involved in co-producing our day opportunity strategy. It's very much about being strength based, about looking at what people can do, rather than what they can't, and asset based in terms of looking at all of the facilities we have in our area and maximising the use of those. It's about innovation as well and maybe looking at doing things differently and market shaping to in order to commission potentially services, new services and different services and potentially decommissioned services as well. And of course that has to be sustainable and within a budget that is under pressure. Following all of the project work, there have been six overarching design priorities and 25 proposals within those priorities, and these were agreed through co-production. These are a day opportunities review and this supports a mixed model of day opportunities within the available budget. When we talk about mixed module, we mentioned about day service buildings, as well as community based or day opportunities. Supported employment review is also important in terms of enhancing the offer of paid and voluntary work for people with a disability to access potentially paid work or long term voluntary work. And we wish to work in partnership with our communities teams and their volunteer strategy. We also wish to develop day opportunity standards and support and develop a charter of standards for day opportunities. We wish to have a forum for day opportunity providers, which doesn't currently exist in order to bring the opportunity providers together to work closely together and to learn from each other. And we want to build in place quality assurance processes to make sure that day opportunities we provide are of a good standard. We also wish to have data that we can gauge about that standard about that quality and inform our strategy. Transport has also been seen as an important area to review. And we wish to review those opportunities to enhance the travel offer, and this could include travel training, voluntary schemes to assist people to and from day opportunities and more local services for local people negating the issues of long distances to travel. We also wish to look at a cost and eligibility of day opportunities. We want to implement a framework for day opportunities charging because charges are quite varied. We wish to have a review of the needs assessment for access to day opportunities so that people can access more and facilitating access to personal budgets so people have more choice and control over the services that they access. Accessible information is also important, and we wish to work with our information advice team to ensure that people have up to date information on day opportunities and simply know what's out there, but it should be available in a variety of formats and not just online. The government groups of the project, including the co-production group, have agreed that the day opportunities review supported employment review and standards and support for day opportunities should be taken through as the first areas for action. In December of last year, the draft day opportunity strategy was released for public consultation. It was a good response of 665 responses to the questionnaires in addition to 50 separate representations, either via email, letter or phone call, and we have five well attended public drop in sessions in January of this year. This provided feedback on how respondents viewed the priorities and let clarification of some areas of the strategy, which we've mentioned earlier, for example, definitions of key terms such as community based services and supported employment. In looking at the consultation report feedback on the strategy priorities, day opportunities review came out highest at 81% followed by day opportunities standards at 76%. The cost and eligibility of day opportunities, transport and accessible information were around the 60% mark with the lowest being supported employment review of 48%. The lower percentage attached to support employment review priority was we feel generally impacted by it being less relevant to non working age people and the respondent profile for the consultation with over half of the respondents being 55 years or older. There has been a strategic decision by the government's groups, including the co-production group to include supported employment priority as one of the free priorities to be taken forward for review. This is due to the more urgent need to review the existing provision, and make sure that it's fit for purpose and it actually assists people into employment. It is also in regards to the lower rates of people with a learning disability and paid employment in our area, compared to regional and national figures. In addition, it is important and possibly the most important area attached to young people of having the opportunity for paid employment, and therefore increasing their independence and reducing reliance on the long term on services. In addition to the strategy to two proposals that were not co-produced, were put out to public consultation. These were in regards to TriCuro day services. TriCuro currently operate eight day services. Five of them are plus services for people with specific needs such as older people with dementia, people with mental health issue, or people with complex learning disabilities. And then there are three larger connect sensors which are open to all people with either an assessed need or disability or need for some support. Consultation proposal one was to close the five plus sensors and move people to either community based services or larger connect sensors. Three of the plus centers, namely high cliff while it's down and Westbourne plus have not reopened following the pandemic lockdown in 2020 with people currently accessing services at nearby connect sensors. Consultation proposal to was to close all eight TriCuro sensors and move all people to either community based services or to data, data centers operated by other providers. In addition to consultation feedback, the disagreement in the green bars on this figure, were for those services that have been relocated for their original basis to close, were for high cliff while it's down and Westbourne were around 55% disagreement. Or except in a proposal with some concerns. For pull plus the disagreement figures were 65% and for more down plus it was 71%. When we look at the disagreement figures, we're for the connect sensors of Boscombe Christchurch and Parkstone connect this was more stark with 93 to 94% disagreement with these services closing. Taking all of that into consideration, the consultation report findings, previous engagement that we've had with stakeholders, and that has been people who use services carers and the staff teams of plus services, and the available budget five options have been outlined for the future of TriCuro day services. Option one was to close all plus services which was consultation proposal one. Option two was more down and all plus and the connect sensors to remain open with the free relocated services of high cliff all is down and Westbourne remaining at the connect sensors. Option three was for all services to remain open and return today original basis. Option four was more down plus and the connect sensors to remain open with pull plus being relocated are staying connect and the free other plus services remaining at their connect center basis. This is the recommended option. And option five was for all services to be closed, which was consultation proposal to. All options have been considered with a benefit and risk analysis and the impacts of closure being fully explored in quality impact assessments. I'll recommend that option four in four is as follows connect centers to remain open and incorporate like lift was down and Westbourne plus services already based there. In addition, Paul plus to be relocated to Parkstone connect and more down plus service to remain open. High cliff while it's down Westbourne and Paul plus it all sites would therefore be closed. The financial implications of this recommended option are as follows. The current budget for TriCuro day services for this financial year is just under four and a half million pounds. There would be a reduction in TriCuro day service costs as a result of the recommended option for to the tune of just over two million pounds. But this would create reinvestment into the day opportunities service services for five hundred and seventy four thousand and that's saving to be CP council of one million two hundred and eighty four thousand four hundred pounds. The recommended option response to the consultation survey to keep connect centers and more down plus open. It also responds to people at Paul plus who made it very clear that a specialist provision was still very much needed in the area for all the people who may have dementia. For high cliff while it's down Westbourne and Paul plus necessary adaptations to their relocated services connect services can could be considered. It also provides for a mixed model of day opportunities as recommended by the strategy in terms of having building based and community based day opportunities. It maximizes the capacity of those expensive buildings to ensure that we are utilizing them. And it also it enables those services to develop the services because they've required a decision. We would be very keen for those services that remain as well to become community hubs and therefore any capacity they do have could be opened up to community groups community day opportunities to be able to operate their services from there as well. So, thank you for listening and like for any questions. Thank you very much indeed for that. So we'll take questions next. Are there any questions any members want to ask? As you know, I'm only subbing on this committee. So, you know, forgive me for asking, asking some probably daft questions. And I have to say that I had to read this report several times to make proper sense of it all, because I'm not familiar with the terminology, all the needs of current users, because it's all very different from the last time that I was involved. For example, I had no idea about the difference between the plus, the connect and the other services and I had to read the report several times before I was able to work it all out. And can I also thank whoever forwarded the list of providers this afternoon, offering all the interesting varied activities because I had up to no idea all this was happening. So thank you for that. I'm learning a lot here tonight. Thank you. Well, looking at the recommendations, I didn't know before, but I do know that three centers High Cliff Wallace down and Westbourne plus closed during COVID and haven't been used since. So, can I ask if the former users are now happy with their new arrangements. I've got another question as well. Looking at Paul plus being relocated to Parks and Connect. I agree it's not far away, but can the appropriate improvements be made at Parks and Connect to meet the different needs of everyone coming from Paul plus, and at the same time keep everyone in their same friendship groups. I believe that's the most important thing. Thank you. Are you able to respond to that. Thank you chair. Thank you for your questions. In regards to the free relocated plus services of High Cliff Wallace down and Westbourne, we went out to groups in June of last year and spoke to them extensively about how how that journey had been for them. There was certainly for High Cliff and Westbourne Plus, which currently High Cliff at Christchurch Connect and Westbourne Plus of Boston Connect. They were really happy with the provision actually. And I think for High Cliff as well, they had the separation from Christchurch Connect. What they felt was though they needed some there was some refurbishment work as well. It was required. And we have had since building suppliers out to quote for that work as well and pending any decisions made in regards to these services and we would look to progress. Westbourne was similar that they were very happy. Actually, these are people with mental health issues. They actually like the hubbub of a busy sensor and being able to make more friendships as well. They also requested some adaptations, name one particular one was an art room for themselves, rather than a shared one, who says quite a few budding artists in that group as well. For Wallace down plus, it was based at it's based at Palmstone Connect for people with complex learning disabilities. It was more of a mixed view. Actually, there were some people who really had integrated into the sensor. And there were others who felt that that was harder for them to achieve as well. So we spoke with staff there as well, and we said about making a game separated provision, which they currently have, but actually what was particularly needed was a more quieter space, particularly when having meals, for example, or just needing some time away from a busy area. So again, we've had buildings suppose out, and it's not, you know, fantastic, expensive to be able to create that off of the one of the main rooms that I currently occupy as well. So we to answer that first question we have, we have engaged with people and the general trajectory was that it worked reasonably well, not for all, but for the vast majority. Yeah, for Paul plus services, we've also engaged with people who use those services, very much as per my presentation, they required that continued provision as well. And interestingly, we've been over to Parkstone Connect again with surveyors to look at a possibility of moving just to check that option helps. And there was a originally senticle four ways, which was, yes, which was relocated as well at Parkstone Connect. And very interestingly, over time, actually those people who access four ways have become, have wanted to become part of the whole center as opposed to a separation. But what it does lend itself to is that there is a an area that was lit in a four four ways to have that separation. And that could be converted to plus, which might be more relevant for people, particularly further dementia diagnosis who do require more secure environments. Thank you. Okay. Well, so, thanks, chair. Also, I didn't turn up early enough to have a chance to say, but sorry, I'm not very in person today, being bit unwell myself today and I had a bit of a health scare and feeling better now for some rest. And I also wanted to say thanks to all the members of the public who turned up. I can't actually see if they're still in the room now, but I thought they all spoke very eloquently and whatnot. And I'm sorry to a gentleman who is still there, but I didn't get a follow up to my question from last month. And notice it hadn't been answered, but I'm trying to mess up like that again. I'm just turning to the presentation. I was interested at the lumping together the accept, but with some concerns and the agree with the proposal. I wouldn't lump those two groups together. And I, I would be worried almost about how that data was gathered, because that doesn't seem like a particularly good option to have even had on there. And if, if your house burns down, you accept it, you know, doesn't mean you're glad it's happened or think it should happen. I was just a little frustration I had with the way the questionnaire have been drawn up, you know, I think you have a lot of power when you draw up a questionnaire, but I leave it at that. Do you want to pick up that point. Yeah, thank you, Councillor Sammon as well. I, I do accept the point that when the proposal was went out, it felt like a very binary choice. And I think we discussed this in the January overview screw in the committee, and we have since made it very clear to people have been involved as well. It was less of a binary choice between proposal one proposal to, and indeed where we've come to with a recommended option is less than proposal one, as you would say, in terms of more down plus would remain open. And we are only considering all of us and those relocated services to close. But we do it, I do accept that point, and I think that could have been handled better in terms of making that clear to people, because I think it did set a few hairs running as well, with those that very binary choice. Just as a point of learning, like, I've just follow up on that. I'd really love to understand why it wasn't simply agree, you know, whatever it is, but standard strongly agree, slightly agree, you know, no opinion, slightly disagree strongly disagree. I'd love to understand where that decision was made at what point when that questionnaire was drawn up. Any ideas where that was. Yeah, I think we do do that with the consultation team service on their advice I think for collecting data as well, sometimes having more stark choices is easier to to represent, but I take the point and I will turn it back to the consultation team. Okay, I think we're all learning lessons about about consultation process. I wanted to echo, Councillor Sammons comments to thank people for coming this evening, and speaking very eloquently, it mirrors many of the comments that I heard when I attended one of the consultation events that more down. And that was extremely enlightening and it was always good to hear from service users so that we fully understand what these services mean to people. So thank you very, very much. I'm relieved to see that more down plus is being recommended to stay open, it would have been frankly madness to close it. So I'm grateful for the movement on that. And my point that I just wanted to raise and I'm always very keen to look at languages on your penultimate slide. You talked about necessary adaptations can be considered. And we also later on we have about considering particularly more down plus it's mentioned can be considered a hub for other services. And it strikes me that particularly if you're moving, pull plus into park stone. These things, these adaptations will be considered, they surely will be done before any before services are moved. It's not, I don't like the language of can. It doesn't feel strong enough to me. I was Councillor carbron. Yes, I think the way the presentation has been put together is to try to be. Not, but let's answer the question directly. Pull, pull plus people can go to parks and connect without any further adaptations that there is a separate entrance is a separate area that's separate, completely separate from the main part of the desk and so that doesn't need any work. Some additional improvements to further enhance it could be done. We need to apply for some capital and monies for that. So cabinet making decision on the recommended option will then lead us to putting forward proposal for some capital to do some improvements. It doesn't, but we can meet the needs of people without any. I think necessarily is the word that's the problem here rather than me or will. So there aren't necessary changes to be made to accommodate people, but to further enhance the buildings. So capital would help with those and further improvements. Okay, thank you. Couple more cast moments. Thank you chair. I'm very pleased to hear that mortar and plus will remain open and I'm sure those residents that contacted me and other Councillors about that are going to be very relieved with that as well. And I'd like to thank the members of the public that came. I just wanted to ask it. Kevin did, did I hear right when you said the three centers had already closed did you say they could be repurposed, or are they likely to be sold. And then the money used for upgrading that the day opportunity, the opportunity places that are staying. Thanks chair. And the reason I jumped in isn't because Kevin can't answer the question is just I sit on a wider corporate property group. And any buildings that are no longer required for the purpose they were originally being used for will be considered either for an alternative use within the council. And that could be for children services, for example, or the, or another department, but they could also be. So if that was the option that the council chose to take. And that money then would come as a capital receipt and can be deployed either on adults, children's or any other service. So that's part of the capital bidding process to put forward your proposals. But I'm sure the cabinet would receive this favorably if we said we wanted to reinvest some of that money into into the existing services to keep them fit and well for the future. Thank you. Yes, thank you, Chairman. Thank you for the presentation. We had a sheet of other providers. I don't know if you've seen it, I expect you generated it. Yes, Missy, getting this was kind enough to say that. Well, I noticed that there are quite a few people missed off. And one, I mean, coder is on there. I'm very surprised to see that I know coder of all they're not in any way. Well, I just find it surprising that you've put that down and say, well, there's an alternative because I don't believe that that would be seen as that you've also got high moral farm and places like that. I really think that it's. I don't wish to be rude, but fudging the issue to say, look, we've got all these places. You didn't put down, for example, bracetones, which has loads and loads of opportunities. I just saw I found that a bit difficult to go for, but my main question is on page 36 summary of public health implications. You say, on that page 28, it is anticipated that there will be long term benefits for the health and well being of those who access services and their carers in the BCP area through implementation implementation of the strategy. And again, I mean, I can't see how you come to that conclusion. You talk about, and I'm particularly interested obviously in high cliff and the further end of Christchurch, not the end that's near ball month. I know a lot of people in high cliff have just stopped using all those facilities that were once offered at high cliff day center, as we used to call it, whatever it's called nowadays. I just find it difficult to accept that we're doing this because we want to improve the services. I think we should come straight out and say, we are doing this for other reasons. High cliff day center, for example, as the officers know very well is one of my, not a hobby horse, but I'm very concerned about it. It's in a terrible state at the moment it has been closed since, well, since before the pandemic, never reopened. It was very much well used. I knew the local nursing homes used to go up there and assess people. And I just find it sad that we're trying to spin this as. It's all going to be wonderful. And I think we should accept and certainly high cliff residents have accepted and modified and fries cliff and all the all the people who do not live in Christchurch. We've had to accept that it won't be a better service. It will be a different service and it will be adequate. So I'm sorry, I'm always really upset. I must declare an interest in that I used to run and run a nursing home and I do know this pretty intimately about what people want. Thank you. That wasn't particularly a question. I'm sorry. Any comments. I would just say, thank you, Councillor. The list of organisations that we gave you were the ones that we currently commissioned with. There are many others, as you mentioned, Grace Jones, for example, and there are many other groups that are out there that we don't commission with that people will pay to attend, get a lot of support from as well. I would also add that, you know, we've not done this in isolation. This has been a project that's been running for two years. We have worked with lots of other local authorities that have been on a very similar journey. And we've also learned from their journey as well in a very similar sense of what they've done and the outcomes that people have had as a result of potentially accessing alternative services that they may not have had the ability to order. They just simply weren't there to access prior to a strategy that rolled out an additional community provision. So I would say that, you know, potentially it's, I guess it's maybe wait and see in this area, but I think having more community based groups potentially could be a positive for some people. But not for all. And that is why we've always said that the strategy is a mixed model of having those day opportunity buildings, which takes up its buildings, which is very important, as well as an enhanced number of community based groups as well. Thank you. I'm just going to have some raises hand. I just wanted to follow that up on that if I may please my position as chair for a second. Thank you for sending that list, which, which was the list of the commission services, which, which the council commission. So, so one of the aspects in the strategy talks about this possibility of what's described as micro providers. So I wanted to get a better understanding of how those are going to be commissioned. Are they going to be commissioned? Is there, then going to be the same. Possible distinction between commissioned micro providers and non commissioned micro provided some make any sense. I will be best to answer that chair. I'm, I'm the head of strategic commissioning for disabilities. My name is one hand. So we have a project going on at the moment where we are going to be working with the community catalyst. That's an organization that go out and and source micro providers on our behalf. So the piece of work that we will be doing will be looking at how we can work with our communities to identify what sort of services they would like. So they could be personal assistance. They could be supporting people with their gardening, going out to different activities. There's lots and lots of different activities that people might want to do. And then what we do is we advertise for these micro providers, durable providers that will come in and provide those services. So we don't directly commission them ourselves. What we tend to do is create direct payments or individual service funds where people can actually purchase them themselves. So it's, it's, it's individuals commissioning them for themselves rather than us commissioning them for them. Thank you. Councilor. Sorry, I've just had a moment's piece and then the room is filled up with my family. Give me a sec. So I'm sorry. So, it's probably more of a question for David, rather than any of the offices. First strategy doesn't seem to currently include any consideration of better using some of those buildings for the due to close by bringing in other groups. And I know that something as soon as more down was considered for closure. Myself and Kate have been trying to talk to yourself about and I'm not going to be too direct or critical because it has come back to me via my group leader that I can be too direct and critical of people in the past. But it is frustrating that that still doesn't seem to be happening, the examination of that option. And that I think I've just double checked in with my wife. We're still waiting for you to respond to my emails, but we sent to you on the topic. And it would just be nice if this strategy maybe had a slightly wider scope of just going, do we close, or do we keep these open, but did look at some hybrid ways of working that would keep some of these centers viable. I hope it's not too late for us to start looking down that path. Can you help with that? Yeah, I can help with that actually. And I know we've had some conversation last week about them more down. I think the Gateway Club was talking about last week. I think the process really is to get this strategy approved and I know it's talked about a lot of the, I went to virtually all of the drop in sessions and I know it was talked about a lot of the drop in sessions about where those day centers weren't operating at capacity about working, you know, then working more up towards the capacity of working working with others for that. I think the process will be get this day care, this strategy approved and be clear about the future of the various day centers. And then, yeah, there is definitely the option to talk to others, whether it's capacity of those tri-curo centers to sort of share those facilities really. And it didn't, I couldn't. I think it's very much comes down to those sort of individuals as to what's appropriate for them, whether they, whether it is a tri-curo, they are, they center or an independent, they center or all that whole list that you referenced the list of the commissioned opportunities. I'm familiar with quite a number of those commissioned opportunities for my previous work in community centers. I've certainly met be creative. Good for you, well for life, people like that. And I know a young man who actually attends these opportunities pretty much every day of the week. It was a well for life this morning. So I know the sort of on a regular basis, the sorts of things that they deliver for individuals. And I think it's some of those may work well working with the tri-curo centers, but some of them very much need their own, their own space, their own sort of flexibility of operation. So I think it is a bit horses for courses really. Thank you. Yes, that issue actually of the game where club was, I think, highlighted at the drop in center, more down. And I know it has been raised, both with Castle Brown and he did with some of the officers who are looking at how we might, or if we could utilize that space as effectively as we can without interfering with the service or distressing that anybody that uses it at the moment. So I think it's very much something which is still under consideration, but he did you want to add to that. I just wanted to slightly add just around when people come into adult care, you know, when individuals need our support in whatever way that might be. But when they're having that conversation with their social worker or their occupational therapist or whoever the professional who's talking to your families. What they will do is have that conversation. And they've had that conversation with your families because that's because, you know, your son is where he is and your daughter or your mother or whoever where they are. And it's really important that people who need to have a variety are able to have a variety, because if we don't do that, then it's, it almost becomes quite restrictive. So people may have a very mixed bag, and it's important that they're able to have that. I think the conversations tonight are trying to really illustrate that, you know, the building base is what works and what's needed. Then, you know, it's important that those considerations are given, but equally, if there's something else, you know, that when Suzanne talks about my co providers or people having a direct payment, who wants to have a direct payment. They're all looked at in the same way, but you might go down one pathway or another. It's really important that we're able to offer that. So the people have that control and are hard to make those choices. And so have access to those provisions, but might stretch them in the way that they got stretched. And I think that's that's what's really important when people first come into contact with adult care or when they're having their review. But they're able to talk about what they might like. And, you know, what, what might suit them and that carers like yourselves and representations, advocacy, advocacy groups such as you are able to really put that view forward as well. So I just wanted to kind of just illustrate that. Really, that is going to have that's what's happened. That's what happens and that's what should happen, because it's the right thing for the collective group of people that come into like you chair. Thank you very much indeed. If everybody's intent. I'd like to move on to the recommendations that are in the paper. So there are two is that we review the adult data opportunities strategy, which can kindly presented earlier and we've seen the document in the paperwork, but also that we look out the recommendation on the track. There are a day services and we've, we've seen the recommendation that council brown mentioned, which is the option for in the paperwork and the recommended option. That is now being put to us. I'm just wanting to ask if everybody is content with that, because I'm due to go to cabinet on Wednesday to give the views of this committee to cabinet about about the paper. So if there is any anything other than that that you wish me to say, I think now's the time to, to say so. Thank you. Council didn't. And so Chairman, what we're. The recommended option. For the criteria, sorry, trichiro day services. Connect is to remain open and incorporate high cliff wall is down in West Warren. Is that the one we're looking at. And all the ones to be moved. Well. I don't want to associate myself with that, because I don't want to see high cliff totally lost to our asset. So, no, but I mean, no, I would prefer to not be involved in that. Okay, any, any other comments about that, that recommendation. Because I will, I'll bear that in mind, and feed that back to when cabinet meets on Wednesday. Anything else anybody wants to add. Oh, sorry, I can see your hand. I only stuck it up after Leslie finished speaking as I convinced me. I given last month when Councillor Rampton. Already, she highlighted lots of issues with consultation. I'm not particularly impressed with some of it. And I'm sure everybody's worked very, very hard on it. And all of that. But I do wonder if maybe the evidence base for the strategy just. Isn't there yet. And it's not a fully fleshed out thing, in my opinion. And it needs more work. Is that maybe an alternate recommendation we make. Just because I know when we had our talk about it, the data working group update, but we don't have things like, Oh, okay, how many miles travel time is this adding to service users? We don't have that. Oh, I can't remember the software you choose, but the GIS data or whatever it is where you'd be at a plot. This is where all the service users live. You know, this is where we would send them to. This is how much journey time would increase on average or decrease or whatever. That just doesn't exist yet for us to be a data driven decision, which I think it should be. Because it should be about improving things. It shouldn't just be a cost saving measure. You know, we should be able to make things better when we change them. Okay, thank you. I mean, again, if everybody's happy, I'm quite happy. I can't pretend to feed that back into, sorry, Councilman, will you indicate you want to swing? Yeah, yeah, I will just just just make one comment. I think it's important to remember this is partly it's about the day opportunity strategy and it's for cabinet to consider the day opportunity strategy, which has been developed over a good 18 months or so period with a lot of co-production and lots of sort of discussion and the consultation. The recent consultation sort of fine tuned that and honed it and added bits to the strategy and tweaked it. And that's the one thing about the day opportunity strategy and the sort of way forward for the next five years in terms of the opportunities. And to remember that's sort of separate, it's linked, but I don't want them to be conflated really. They'll be saying, oh, well, I don't think the consultations are great. You know, I think we need to review the strategy and reduce stuff because that's been a long time. The sort of gestation period for that. And the recommendation around the future of the Trichiro day centers is, is all additional to that, but distinct to an extent. So I wouldn't like the sort of the consultation views on what happens with the day centers to muddy the water about the day opportunity strategy, which has been developed. Yeah, I'm checking. So, as I say, if everybody's content, what I'm happy to do is to feed those views back to cabinet meeting on Wednesday. Is it what you're happy with that? Yeah, can I just, can I just clarify over the recommendation? So it seems that everyone was in favor of it aside from. Councillor Dabman and Councillor Samman, are you abstaining or are you voting against the recommendation, just to be clear, please. Well, I hadn't read each other. Sorry, Chairman, you haven't had a vote on it. So, yeah. Well, let's let's do that, then. Can I just come in so sorry, Chairman, to button, but surely the we need to actually put our comments. And that's what I thought we were doing. The Chairman said he will pass on my view about High Cliff Descent, which everybody knows anyway, but I'll do it once again. And, I mean, there are lots of things to make a comment on. So if we just have a vote and the vote will be carried because everybody but me and Joe apparently are happy with it, then that's not the same as putting what I said. I'm quite happy to go to cabinet and put it myself, but I think it comes better from the scrutiny committee, because I did hear one scrutiny, Chairman, it wasn't you, Chairman, say hardly worth having a scrutiny committee because they don't actually say anything. Well, we do, but, you know, it's that we should put it succinctly but firmly. So what I was planning to do was to say to the cabinet that this committee is supportive of the option that is before. The cabinet recommended option tonight and that is before cabinet on Wednesday, but, you know, that there have been other comments which I feel cabinet should be made aware of. So that's what I was intending to do now if if that's not, if people are uncomfortable with that, then, then, then fine, you can tell me, but that's what I was planning to do. Sorry, I'm not staring at you, but yes, I am happy as long as those comments get to cabinet, not just two people voted against it's that really the time concerned with the committee itself is saying yes, it's happy. But for example, I'm not at all happy about the micro providers. So, I mean, all those things should be aired at cabinet if you will, I'd appreciate it. I'm going to say trust me lesson, but that would be better. Can I just say, Chairman, I do implicitly to put our point of view, but we need it put. Thank you very much. Is everybody happy with that? I'm most grateful. Okay. Well, that's the end of this item. And I'm not forcing the members of the public to go. But if you would like to take the opportunity, I've been completed an item to go, then please feel free to do so. We'll just give you a moment. If you, if you're going now, thank you very much indeed for everything that you've done. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you very much for for that. I'm going to move on to item seven, which is the health and wellbeing strategy interaction. I'm going to ask Julian to introduce it, but just by way of introducing there are three bits of paper supporting this document. One is on the joint strategic needs assessment. The other is the strategy interaction paper and the other is a kind of introductory paper on integrated neighborhood teams. I think that's right. I've probably got that right. Some of that went to the health and wellbeing board and I felt it was quite helpful. It would be quite helpful for it to come here. Sorry, Julian. Thank you very much. Thank you, German and, and, and you've, you've described very clearly what the short paper sets out. The committee's expressed an interest on a number of occasions on taking a strategic and data led approach to setting your forward at work program and we thought in that context that these three papers would be. It would be worth sharing and, and, and for you to have the opportunity to discuss them. The joint strategic needs assessment is refreshed annually by public health door set and brought to the health and wellbeing board. It was, it was brought last month and signed off and agreed for publication and that joint strategic needs assessment will continue to inform the work of the health and wellbeing board going forward. The second paper around strategy into action, followed on from a development session that the health and wellbeing boards held at the end of last year. And reflected a view that came through very strongly from that session about a desire to take a different approach to the health and wellbeing strategy, which is a requirement for every health and wellbeing board to set a strategy. But the, the direction that the, that the board gave was, we want not just to refresh our strategy, but actually to see our role to see the health and wellbeing boards role as to really drive delivery of that strategy by having a, an oversight role as the place based partnership of the integrated care system is developed. And to, to focus on some key programs and areas for delivery. In that paper, I would particularly draw out two paragraphs if you want to look into the, the detail of it paragraph six really looks at the strategic goals of the previous health and wellbeing strategy maps them against the integrated care system. Strategy, and broadly, the discussion that the health and wellbeing board was the themes of that strategy continue to be the right ones continues to be really relevant but let's focus our attention as a board on the areas of delivery. And the paper includes some initial suggestions for programs and transformation work at paragraph eight. That could be that area to focus on development of family hubs proposed wellbeing hubs, integrated neighborhood teams, supporting adults to live well and independently through the better care fun but also, and through social care, adult social care prevention strategy and transformation work, community mental health transformation, going smoke free and looking at issues around cost of living and poverty and housing, all of which, if you look back to the strategic needs assessment feature very clearly in the in the data. And then the third paper relates to one of those specific programs, a briefing note provided by my colleague Kate Calvert, but very much a joint endeavor and joint piece of work within the integrated care system. And the program that the health and wellbeing boards agreed was one that should be an area of focus. So, so that's the, that's the set of papers and not proposing or expecting a detailed discussion of all of the content of that today because there's a lot in there. But would really welcome any any questions or any suggestions for areas that you'd like to spend more time on over the next 12 to 18 months as a committee. Thank you very much. So yeah, this was pretty high level kind of overview really just trying to pick up things I'd had been through health and wellbeing board and trying to ask you to look at whether or not there is anything in there, but you might want to have a bit more of a deep dive into the process of our committee, I've kind of put colleagues on notice about integrated neighborhood teams that we might want to have a bit more detail look at that at some point. I'm looking at the author of the paper and hoping that she's not going to object too strongly to us being able to do that. No, I think this is really important. And as Jillian said, this is very much a joint piece of work and it ties in really nicely, I think, with both their integrated care partnership strategy, but also the strategy of basically, doing well being bored so definitely think it's worth coming back and making sure that we are on track, and can deliver as we intend to. Thank you. Any. Thank you chair. I fully support the idea of these community family hubs. I do know that the residents in my ward are very concerned that although we do have a pharmacy that has a consulting room, etc. We do not have a doctors surgery. And residents were moved to Elmer Road, and then that goes and they move to Denmark Road, and they are running it very, very difficult to get appointments. So I would hope that when we have these family hub supporting all the health and well being and great idea to stop smoking, etc. But a lot of people just want being able to go to see the doctor. So I do hope that the NHS will take up this and look at our demo, the demography in the area. And how it easy or not easy to get to the doctor's surgery, because in some cases it can be two or three buses just to go to the doctors which possibly only mile and a half away two miles, but it's very, very difficult for some people. I don't know this is sort of part of that, but I was hoping to have seen more about the Dorset care record, which seems to have taken forever to be rolled out. And it seems to be such a great initiative having people's information in one place with only certain people being able to access the bit that they need. I've been talking about it for years and it doesn't seem to be getting anywhere so I would certainly like to see a bit more push into into that. Thank you. Shall we take the other points and then come back to somebody to pick them up? Okay. You saw the intake of breath. No actually my, I think my comment is quite sort of high level I became concerned I think that we've got the health and wellbeing board we've got the integrated care partnership we've got the integrated neighbourhood teams and the group above that. And I just wondered it seems to me we've got an awful lot of people doing quite similar things perhaps in a way we've got the same people going to lots of similar rich meetings, perhaps I might be wrong. So please put me right if I am now you could argue that that's fantastic that means you've got lots of oversight across the piece that everybody's having similar conversations but I just got a little bit worried that we're getting quite heavy in some in some of this will top heavy may not be quite the right expression but anyway some reassurance about that or an understanding of exactly who is doing what with whom. Yeah, I'll find a different form of words Council Member and any other comments. I'll have I'll have a go at some of it and Kate might want to come in on on GP GP surgeries in particular. So to start with the point about governance. I think you're right to to ask the question the integrated care system is still a relatively new system that's been put into place. We've got the integrated care board and partnership sitting at the the apex of that system structure if you like. But the role of health and well being boards at a place level is extremely important and one that we really want to build the focus on in the in the year, the year or two ahead. Because I think integrated care systems were always developed with the idea that place and neighbourhood should be the level at which integration really happens and I think that's the place where we need to put most attention over the next the next while. There's certainly a risk in that context that it can just generate a lot of meetings for a lot of the same people with a slightly different label on it. And I think that's a that's a reasonable risk to draw out and what I can assure the committee always that none of us as as officers and certainly I think the same is true of kind of have the have the time to to go to access of numbers of meetings. So that's that keeping the governance focused is something that we we definitely pay quite a lot of attention to ourselves and with our with our colleagues in the in the ICB to. We definitely don't want meetings for the sake of meetings. It's got to be about delivering, which is what the the strategy is about to. Well, on the door to care record. I mean, later on the agenda. I know that the the chairman is going to give an update on the data working working group, which is about the committee's interest in data more broadly. Also the dark the door to care record and always is part of what is helping us as a system to have the right data available. I don't know the details of where that project is and what what might have. And we're upset and what the next phase of it is, but that's certainly something we could bring back to the, the committee and future point if that's, if that's helpful. Yeah, I just wanted to quickly come in on that. Yes, I've taken on my role it the integrated care system is still sort of betting in and finding its way, but I think it's important to remember that the sort of integrated care board, integrated care partnership, health and wellbeing board structure is a product of statute effectively it's the way government have said we need to structure our health services and democratic input to that through health and wellbeing boards. And I think you're right you could, unfortunately, you know, it could be the same or probably the same people attending different meetings in different places having similar discussions each coming up with their own strategies and action plans. But for me, I sat, I sat on a couple of integrated care partnership meetings, and there's a real feeling in the room of people wanting to actually see change and wanting to actually move away, move on from talking about governance structures and strategy to actually delivering things and seeing action. And I think that's where the whole strategy interaction that has come from, and the push of the health and wellbeing board is very much similar in our sort of development session that we didn't want a ICP have got a strategy let's have a health and wellbeing board strategy where, you know, we wanted effectively the health and wellbeing board strategy to push ahead with actually making sure things are delivered. We can't as a health wellbeing board say, right, we're doing this we're doing that, but we can certainly sort of make sure that those are responsible for delivering different areas to sort of report back and we, and we make sure things are happening so I think you could be lost in the sort of governance governance strategy structure but I think the people I've met certainly on the ICP and on the health wellbeing board. Very much of wanting to see things delivered and things progressed and I think that's where we've been on the people in those settings, having that real push to make sure the actions are taken and actually that we monitor those and we make sure they're delivering for people. Thank you, I'll bring Katie in a minute but I just want to echo that really having tuned into the health and wellbeing board meeting. I mean, I don't think David Freeman could have been any clearer really about about the need, you know, to get away from lots and lots of strategy papers and to actually get stuff done. So I think that was really welcome so Kate, thank you. Thank you. Thank you chair. And, and yes, I think the integrated neighbourhood teams work is relatively new we're just setting up actually how we're going to implement it because that's what we need now. We've had done a lot of work. We're at point now we've just got to bring together to make sure that we've got the resources aligned to delivering. With this initiative, it has been agreed across our partnership. So this huge support and sign up for us. I think in terms of the governance in place. This is a program of work that would enable some of that development of what happens locally and especially at a neighbourhood level. So when you talk about the general practice, sustainability and where we've got practices and where we've got gaps. Actually, some of the challenges we've had with general practice is they can't recruit workforce. So some of them are really struggling. The ask on general practice in terms of delivering against their contractors quite significant with had changes where we ask general practice to come together to form sort of networks, which aren't a legal entity. It's just a group of general practices working together. There's challenges around that. We've got 18 networks are all quite different. I think what's important here is we've got an opportunity with our integrated neighbourhood teams to actually maximise the use of the resource we've got and actually have that resource geared around meeting the needs of that local population. So when we looked at the JSN that's high level across BCP footprint, actually what we need to do is drill down once we've identified what's the neighbourhood footprint, which we're using wards as a baseline as a starting point. Then we can actually do that more local joint needs a strategic joint needs assessment of that neighbourhood because then we can understand what does that need look like to clear around the health profile because actually the make up of your teams then will look different. If we've got an older population in area like we know in a crush at a cracker, actually we could gear the resource that's going to best meet the need of that older population versus perhaps a more mixed or younger population in another ward. So that's what the planners with the integrated neighbourhood teams. And this is a real, it is an opportunity for us to help support general practice and their sustainability. They have been really struggling to recruit particularly these, but not everybody needs to see a GP necessarily, actually it is about the right professional and having the opportunity to do that. We know we've got challenges not only in general practice, but they're starting to come up around community pharmacy as well as of course we know dentistry. So we've got a few, we've got a lot of challenges that we need to actually bring together and address. We're very focused on delivery. And this is why we're at that stage where we need to pull it together. And I know the governance challenge. Thank you. Two hands cast a cover on. So just very quickly come back on that I just wanted to say to Councillor Brown, I'm not being rude, but I'm not lost in the governance structure at all. I'm very familiar with the NHS and how it's structured and I understand the structure very well. Maybe one of the few people who do. It's not easy. But the health and wellbeing boards, all of these things, yes, they are statutory, but it that it's still what you do with them. Their existence is one thing that's the statutory part is what you do with them. It's who you empower through them, and what you consider to be your priorities. That's what matters. And that's what I'm very keen to get a very clear sense of. And I really welcome what Kate's just said. It's very helpful. I'm quite excited. It's quite shamelessly excited about the idea of drilling down into the locality to that level with the coordination and the high level above it with things like the JSN a informing everything. And the and having some levers to really get into that, I think is that could be very exciting. The problem I always have with these things is we've done. Tried this before in so many different little guys is and it just worries me each time, but maybe this time, maybe, you know, and there's always a bit of progress each time, absolutely. But anyway, thank you. I just wanted to reflect on that. Thank you. Yes, thank you, Chairman. Yes, I think this is more or less the same. Set of people, well, not people, organizations, when I was. But failure holder. I'm looking at Phil because I can't quite remember if it was all exactly the same with its even blossomed further. And everybody is working really hard and I really think that you're doing a wonderful job. I'm not going to leave it there, however. No, no, I do really. I think the whole idea is very, very good. I've never been happy, Chairman, with this top down. You know, I think I can't remember what they call it now. The opposite of escalating top down to get to the locality. What we used to do was be little localities and we used to do it all ourselves. And somehow it worked, but this is what we're doing now. I know we've got to do it. And I do think, and I'm sure David agrees, he sees the same faces at every meeting, but that's exactly why it works. Yeah, so I just wanted to say that I was looking at this paper, which is on page 107, which was from last year, I believe, unless the date's wrong. And it's the message from the board at that point that they'd like to see actual actions and what's being delivered in another paper rather than all this. I mean, to be honest, and this is just a purely personal view, I really don't like having all these papers from the presentations on this tiny screen. So I could do without those I could do with just a succinct message from everybody at all the boards as to where we've got to. I noted chairman for one thing that apparently smoking has gone down in Boscombe, which is good. If you think that the council has anything to do with stopping people smoking, which I don't put them. So, I'm sorry, I'm not going to spoil it all by saying, you know, being awkward. You're doing a wonderful job and I do appreciate it and thank you all. Yes, thank you. It was just something that I picked up, sort of reading through it. I thought it was very sad that our youngsters are higher than the national average for alcohol and drugs. And also we've got higher average hip fractures, presumably in the elderly, and that can have a catastrophic sort of way changing to light in that when they come out of hospital, they may never go home, they have to go into a care home. So, I'd really like to see sort of what work we're doing on that, but I haven't recently seen a video that's gone out from Hampshire on how to prevent falls. And it's actually really simple stuff on a lot of this, how to prevent falls like sensible footwear. You know, don't have trailing cables on the ground and things like that. But I thought something like that would be useful for us to use as well. Okay, thank you. I'm going to ask you if there's any wind up comments, but just on that last point I know when we've had. Presentation from our colleagues in public health, gyps and falls is an issue which is very much on their agenda. Because of, as councilor was just said, because of the consequences and the need to keep people well. Sorry, I'm just looking to see if anybody wants to say anything, finally, before I move on. That's a problem. Just wanted to pick up on Councillor Devlin's comment actually about about smoking cessation, which is, you know, in the paper of areas will be there. It's sort of going smoke free by 2030 and then drop a drop of smoking. I think I don't suppose it might not be anything to do traditionally with the council, but public health is a very much a part of this council. And I would be shocked if they didn't have a hand in delivering that reduction in smoking. And certainly it's a core part of their being is about going smoke free by 2030. And I know they've just sort of ordered in lots of smoking cessation to help with that. So it is very much a part of what this council delivers in terms of its public health role. And I suppose I just had also a meeting I was at recently when I think it was the greatest care partnership and it was talking about public health. None of these things are new or rocket science is not like we're trying to come up with strategies to find new ways of keeping people healthy or new innovative things in it. A lot of it is the basics of it's about smoking is about healthy eating is about false prevention, you know, that that's been known about for a long time. It's about decent housing good quality housing and the people living in poverty. And that's all those sort of cool things it's the same things that working on those areas works and that's what we've got to keep working at. Thank you. Can we move on. Can I just come back on that. I just meant through you, Chairman, that we are getting into what used to be called the nanny state territory, which I think we used to refer to labor as. So, but no, I totally agree with you. I've said, I think you're all doing a wonderful job. And yes, I agree. And also like the councillor before me. Yes, I'm very sad to hear that there's so much drug activity. We need to do more work on this. Absolutely agree. But speaking as a reformed smoker, I gave up without any help and it's easy. So don't tell me that. I'm not on that point. I think I think we move on. Thank you very much indeed. I've never smoked shares. Never had to give up. So, yeah, I had other devices, but that's a different story. So, we're going to move on to the data working group and give you a bit of an update if I can. So, in the work that was circulated, there are two documents really one is the notes of the meeting on the 25th of January, which is there for your. Information, but probably more importantly, there are copies of a sets of slides, which are adult social care performance data, which we received at that meeting. And I think that they are useful for you to have because within those slides, you can see quite a lot of links to other data that might be useful. So just park that for a minute. We've had one more meeting since then. So that meeting that I'm just referred to was specifically focusing about adult social care. And the more recent meeting has been focusing on health. And we had a presentation from the. colleague who is the expert on the dice system, which I was just came away completely blown. My mind just blew the amount of information that was held on the on that system. What we've asked them to do is just to give because we were actually viewing the live system and they were interrogating the system so we could see what was on it. What I've asked if they could do for us just to do a series of slides just so that it gives you an overview of what that what sort of data that that information holds and it's quite quite considerable. So, so we will do that. But the other thing is what once we have done that the plan is to kind of bring those two sets of data together and come up with the kind of briefing paper for counselors and anybody else really you might want to see it. So that everybody has a kind of guide to where they might be able to access data on anything that people might want to have a look at. So it's it's simply to try and bring all of that into one place so that people are looking to try and find out where to start really on looking for data they they know where to go. So that's that's the next step and what I'm hoping is that we'll be able to do that in time for our May, the next meeting of this meeting in May. And Coney Lindsay is busily working away on that. So that's the plan but also I think that to try and use that document as a kind of reference point. So if we're thinking ahead about our forward plan and issues that we might want to look at, we might want to have a look at what data is there is on the on a particular issue. So you'll be able to see well is that data out there. Is it accessible or do we need to get somebody to do a bit more digging in terms of trying to get the information that we want. So that's the plan. So hopefully that I've got that right. So any issues or any questions on on that is everybody content with that. Thank you. Right. You waved your hand and I didn't see. Oh, that's always worrying. Thank you very much. I'm going to move on. So once again, I end up being guilty of sending you lots of information for just for items for information, but there are three, I think, quite important papers there. I'm going to come back to the community pharmacy in a minute. But on the papers there on the merger of quarter jack surgery on the old dispensary at women born, and the closure, the Christchurch medical branch practices in Burton and brands go. So they're there for your information, but having said that, I don't want to think that I want to prevent any kind of debate or discussion about it, but I do. Obviously, be aware, aware of them. So if there are any immediate questions on those, please, please say so on the Dorset community pharmacy. I, I kind of ask somebody into writing this and I'm very grateful for them doing so, but I just read it and thought, well, there is such a lot in there. And I think I just probably, unless there are any immediate questions on it that people might want, and I'm going to turn to people who might know the answers. Unless there are any immediate questions on them, then I think I'll let you have a bit of a read of that, because it is quite a, quite a dense document. Is that the right word? Anyway, so that's my plan. Is there anything you wanted to take on any of that? I think in terms of the community pharmacy, it's a lot of information there. And even when I saw the slides to share, I thought, you're likely to have some questions. So, more than happy to actually come back after a later date. We thought it might be quite good, though, for you to have a look and kind of get a sense of everything that goes on and how pharmacy community pharmacy works. And if you've got any questions, then that could come through the chair. And that we can then kind of gear a presentation around your questions so that we can come back to the committee at a later date if you'd like us to do that. Thank you. Is everybody happy that we do that. Thank you very much indeed. I just wanted to comment as something I was surprised about the closure of Burton surgery, and everybody in Burton coming to Christ Church Medical Center, which is impureable, which is about two miles away. 8162 number eight, summary of environmental impact. No environmental environmental change implications identified. Well, surely, a four mile trip, brown trip from Burton is an environmental impact. When you do these reports, I'd like them looked at in order to sort of say, well, actually, people are getting in their cars. I did notice, Chairman, that there's a mention of Burton being one point something miles away on foot. But if you're feeling groggy, you don't always walk to the surgery. In fact, you can never get, but no, I'm not going to go on about the surgeries because it's all on telephone in line. But still, no, I just thought that, you know, when we think of the environment, we are going to lose, but I think it's a show. Anything, and we weren't able to add any light on it. Just, yeah, I take your point, Councillor, I accept that actually any travel does have an environmental impact. But we go through quite a robust process when practices come to us and Smith, they have to get approval to close any of their branches or their practices and consult and it is really difficult because you're quite right. Yes, it might be a short distance, but we've got a community that might not necessarily be able to access in the same way, and we take that all into account. And we certainly consult with members of the community so that it's still in process in terms of the changes, but it just wasn't financially. I think it was a workforce issue for the crush each medical practice. It's also because one of the partners recently passed away and had owned part of that building. So, of course, they had to sell the decision was taken to sell the premises. So, as much as we look for opportunities to think about it, it's a pretty, it's a difficult situation that we're still working through. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I should indeed. Then move on. Portfolio holder, Council, Brian. Yeah, thank you, Chair. I'll keep you sure to the last time last time you met, seven weeks ago, there was an awful lot of data and it's been a very busy time, lots of different things going on. Just a reminder from last time, there's a lot of work on budgets, but obviously members, you know, are aware of that we've now set the budget and medium term financial plan at the recent Council meetings. There's a lot to talk about the opportunities and about the health and wellbeing board. Those have come before committee tonight. So we've covered those already. All I'd say really is that there's been meetings discussions cabinet very much moving on now that sort of budget medium term financial plan is there to look at the Council vision and and priority planning from, from that. So that's a sort of an important sort of shift in activity. And the other thing really to report really that's coming up in a couple of weeks time is to make you aware that social care week is the week commencing 18th of March and just a couple of weeks time. And that includes world social work day on Tuesday, the 19th of March. And if I just tell you it's to provide an opportunity for social workers and others in the social service sector to celebrate their achievements, clarify what social workers do as well as raise awareness and support for the important role of social workers playing the lives of children. Families and communities facing adversity. So that's something you should be seeing. Communication and social media, etc going on at that time. So something for you to be aware of. Thank you very much. Any questions for Councilor Brown. Thank you very much for that. Forward plan. So if I just need to have a quick look at the forward plan document, particularly in relation to the next meeting, which is on the 20th of May so we while away. But thinking was that we would try and cover the home first integrated hospital discharge program, which we kind of talked about doing a couple of times, but I'm hoping that that would be okay. So, looking at betting. Yeah, that would be fine. Sure. Thank you. And, um, I have sort of asked about an update on tricura. And I think it would be fair to say that it might be easier to get them to do kind of review of work to date, rather than necessarily. A future would that be okay. Chair, as you're aware, there's a there's a review going on the vol the Council of companies, of which tricura is one and. So there's a governance review and then also a more fundamental review about what alternatives are there to the current delivery model and how then that options appraisal is considered by cabinet. Would, would it be helpful for a tricura update on the work that they're currently doing the initiatives that they're trying to push forward and how we, we're working over a development of a business plan, which is going to come to cabinet. Would it be helpful to include in committee that business plan. I think it would, I know Councilor was asked a couple of times for, for us to have just another bit of an update about tricura. So, if that's possible, I think that would be most welcome. Is that okay. And, and also, to put on the agenda, if people are happy to and feel fairly appropriate. Just again, a bit of a look at integrated neighborhood teams, just to see where we are by the time we get to the frontiers of May and if there's any more detail that we can maybe go behind that. And then I think the only other thing that was in my mind to include was the point I touched on earlier, which is about the data to try and bring that whatever that document might look like to bring that forward to that committee so you can see what data that we've put together and what do you think we need to do anything more with that, and whether it's what you want to see or you expected to see as now come for the work that the working group skin doing. So does that sound okay for May. So is there anything else that anybody wants to raise or ask about in terms of the forward loan, Castle deadman. Yes, I was interested in this. What we learned today or I learned today anyway, about the micro providers, and something called a community catalyst. And as I mentioned coder, for example, I'd really like to have some more information on that when it's available. I mean, not because it's going to obviously, you know, something to do with the day sent and no I'm sorry the day whatever it is opportunities. Yes, it's going to be involved with that and I'd really like to know about what we're doing and how we're doing it. So that's a micro providers if you would German. Okay. Maybe I just what's going through my mind is whether we can do the two things, but I'm not sure. But we were certainly in attempt to cover it in some way or the city making it out of it. That's a very good question. As Louise gone. I think where we, Louise from health, but should I think where we were at the last time. She's always. Louise, just asking about about dentistry and I know you came to share with us the work that health what you've been doing on dentistry I know you still are doing some work. Are you able just to update where you're at. Yeah, I think there's a bit of work going on at the moment so it might be good to bring an update to the main meeting as you're talking about the forward plan. If that were to everyone. That would be fantastic if you feel able to do that. Just just by way of an update on the work that you've been doing. Is that okay? Is that okay Councilor Allen? Yeah, happy to. Thank you very much. I think that's probably more that's probably more than enough. Again, the evil I know that put too much on the agenda, but we'll, we'll cope somehow. Okay, anything else on the forward plan. Okay, thank you. I'll be the chair anyway, by the way, going to lecture me chair meetings. Thank you very much indeed. Okay, we've got the future meeting dates, which. As we just talked about the next meeting is on the 22 day. So unless there's anything else anybody desperately wants to raise. I'm going to close the meeting and thank everybody very much for your attendance. Thank you. See you later. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [BLANKAUDIO]