Transcript

West. Thank you. Thank you both. Before we go to introductions of other officers, just again say good evening and welcome to the meeting of the licensing subcommittee. I'm councillor David Robson, a councillor alongside Linda in Clapham Town. The meeting is hosted by Lambeth and I hope is currently being broadcast live via audio minutes and recordings may be used for quality and training purposes. In the event any technical issues require the meeting to be adjourned, they cannot be restarted within a few minutes. Further updates will be posted on the council's democracy X account, which is at LBL democracy. There's no fire alarms here scheduled where I am currently or in anywhere else. So if that happens, then it disrupts the meeting, the same rules apply. To ensure that the meeting runs smoothly, only one individual is allowed to speak at a time. And as you've all joined by teams, please ensure that your microphone is muted unless otherwise asked. Any speaking must be permitted to finish what they're saying, without interruption without interruption. And if I request that an individual stop speaking, they should do so immediately. Interruptions may result in you being disconnected from the meeting. Members of the public are welcome to record or tweet the public proceedings of the meeting. And the subcommittee will notify interested parties of its decisions on each application within five working days. Councillor Bray mentioned earlier about any declarations of interest. I have none. Is there any from you, Councillor Fitzroy? None? None. None, thank you. Thank you. The minutes of the previous meeting, which I'm not sure was held. Is that for the meeting on? It can't be for the meeting on May 7th, is it, Kaya? I don't have the agenda on. Sorry. No, it's okay. Well, I don't think there's any other minutes received with this, with these papers. So I'm just, I suppose there wasn't anything to approve at this stage, but if needed, we can come back to it at a future date. That was great. Yeah. Thank you. Officers. So while, before we get dive into the agenda, would you be able to introduce yourself, please? So sorry, Kai, I'll come back to you if you could. No problem. Good evening, everybody. My name is Kai Smoor. I'm a democratic service officer and I'll be taking the minutes for this meeting today. Thank you. And Rajneesh. Good evening. My name is Rajneesh Tulsi, democratic services officer. I'm shadowing my colleague, Kai Smoor today. Thank you. From legal, Selina. Hi everyone. I'm, I'm Selina Miafi and I'm the legal advisor to the committee this evening. And last but no means least, Ola. Hello everyone. My name is Ola Oujari. I'm the licensing officer for the applications. Okay. Thank you everybody. Now the order we can. Hello. I'm an officer as well. So this is. I know, but I thought because as you're an applicant coming in later, but. Oh, right. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. I mean, apologies. No, no, no, no, not at all. But you can do, you know, you're rather important officer, Nicole. So if you want to introduce yourself, please go for it. I'm Nicole Terrier. I'm regulatory services manager at Lambeth Council, and I'm representing the licensing authority in respect of the review of the app of the premises license for Lassarena. Thanks, Nicole. And apologies. Yeah, I thought I was going to address your bit as under a bit later in the agenda, because first up, we're taking on. Eat the sunshine. I mean, interesting name. Eat the sunshine down the sun at 303 Kennington Road, which is a new application. And then following that we will have Lassarena, which is a review application. So hang on. I think I'm hearing a bit of feedback there. So can we just ensure that other people have got their mics on mute until otherwise? Sorry, Mr. Diaz. Could you just keep them on? Miss Diaz could just keep the microphone on mute because there's a bit of feedback coming through there. Thank you. So you're going to be second on the agenda. So first up, we're going to be hearing from eat the sunshine down. Can I just double check? We have the applicants in attendance, which is Wanok Hu and Wing Tung. Is that correct? Otherwise known as Angela and Nikki. Yep. Yes. Brilliant. Thank you very much. And do we have the residents in attendance as well? The objectors? Is it Tim? Tim, I can see Tim's online as well. OK, brilliant. All right. Well, without further ado, I'll hand over to our officer Ola to introduce the application. Ola. Thank you, Chair. This first application is for a new application, an application for a new premises license for premises at 303 Kennington Road. The application is seeking sale of alcohol from 11 a.m. to 10.30 p.m. Attending in from the applicant side is Miss Wainok Hu, known as Angela, and business partner, Mrs. Wing Tung, known as Nikki. The representations were received against the application and two of the representations were attached to the report. But the third was brought to the attention of my colleague subsequently, and that's been circulated to members, the applicant and for publication. Two of the objectives are in attendance, Tim Garner and Oliver Oruk. The third objective they haven't confirmed, they've confirmed they will not be attending. The application and the plan can be found on pages 11 to 22 of the report and two of the representations which were originally attached to the committee papers were at pages 25 to 28. And the proposed conditions which were agreed by the applicants at pages 23 to 24. The options open to members can be found at page 4, but additional options are also available, which includes removing the DPS or not granting one of the applications that has been sought. That concludes my introduction unless member has any questions for me. Committee, do you have any questions at this stage for Ola? So with that, then we move on to the next phase of the hearing, which is to hear from the applicant. Can you just confirm, is it Nikki or Angela who's going to address the subcommittee at this stage? I will begin first. Pardon? Nikki. Nikki here will start first. Brilliant. So you have up to five minutes between you both. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening members of the licensing committee. So Nikki. I'm one of the directors of Greenland limited. We are the applicant seeking for premises license for establishment called either sunshine down the sun. And I believe that premises license should be granted to the to eat the sunshine down the sun as the application supported by a robust set of proposed conditions. And we demonstrate the commitment to responsible onsite retailing. Importantly, there have been no objections from any of the relevant responsible authorities such as the police or the environmental health. So indicating that there's no concerns from those tasked with upholding the licensing objectives. So while the applications has attracted three objections from the local residents, the concerns have been carefully considered and steps has been taken to address them. So we're offering three additional conditions to mitigate the concerns. So the first would be the ground of the premises license. We subject to the sunset class. We're taken to effect at any time that we seems to hold the proprietorial interest in the premises. We will terminate the license at that point. And two is the venue will have a phone number that residents can use to make complaints if there's any disturbance. And all the complaints must be locked in a daily register with the outcome of the complaint. And during our renovation, we will see to fit to it that will source as best as we can. So improving materials and all windows will remain closed during any events and with regulated entertainment. And so I'm just going to carry on with our statement. So thank you so much and hi everyone. My name is Angela Wynokhui. I'm also one of the three directors of Drink Ladue. I would like to continue by emphasising the nature of our company and our branding. And maybe now is a good moment to kindly ask you to refer and open up to some additional documents that we provided for you. And then one of them is a branding design. And then the other one is a mock up food menu. Sorry, can I just interrupt Angela? Sorry, I don't. Which papers are you referring to? We have provided them to Pam. And I've got them ready on my laptop as well, so I can share them out with you guys. Okay. I think they're in the annex chair. So I think they're in the annex. Thank you. Got it. Why? Just a clarification. Thank you. Cool. Okay. So, yeah, as you may be able to tell, we are looking to open a family friendly cafe in the daytime and an evening space where you can promote, where we can promote various community building activities with maximum capacity of up to 30 people. We're not looking to open a bar. And in fact, one of our main objectives is to promote alcohol free and low alcohol beverages. With respect to concerns about traffic and parking, it's important to clarify that granting the premises license does not affect the cafe ability to open or operate. These are planning and operational matters unrelated to the license itself. Therefore, granting the license would not result in any additional traffic or parking issues beyond the cafe's existing use. We have included a detailed operating schedule that demonstrates our commitment to promoting the licensing objectives. These measures include, as you may all familiar with, a Challenge 25 policy to prevent underage sales. And staff training to ensure all alcohol related conditions are fully understood and followed. Clear signage asking customers to refrain from consuming alcohol in the street, helping to prevent public nuisance. CCTV and other security measures to support the prevention of crime and disorder. And moreover, the license would support our cafe financial fiability and helping it remain a stable presence in the community and supporting local employment opportunities. And may I also please move on to talk about the community benefits. So granting the premises license to eat the sunshine down the sun will bring several benefits to the local communities. Our cafe, which serves as a welcoming space for residents to gather, socialize and to participate in cultural and arts event. By hosting book clubs, Cantonese and Filipino language classes, events for kids and parents, which we have actually started a Cantonese class on every Sunday already and has been quite a popular event for East and Southeast Asian community in the area. And also we'll do poetry readings, music and art appreciation evenings. We aim to foster a sense of community and provide opportunities for local artists emerging grassroots artists and performers to showcase their talents and to try things out. And yeah, we can provide them with a supporting caring space. And for these reasons, we respectfully request that the premises license for either sunshine down the sun to be granted. And in the event of any issues or complaints from the local community arises, we'll be open to have the license reviewed and thank you. And thank you. Thank you both. Thank you both. I can see Councillor Bray is very eagerly already got a hand up. So I'll come to you first. Just a quick one before any further discussion. Question for Nikki, actually, when you I didn't really understand your first condition when you referred to a sunset condition. Could you clarify that further, please? So the sunset clause is discussed during the meeting that we have with objectives. Pam, the officers were suggesting because the objectives were mentioning if we were granted the premises license and if we ever finished the tenancy agreement and moved out and someone might be taking the license at the location and operate into a bar and pub. So we just want to put that clause in to ensure that our good cause or our intention to create community events and payback for the community stays on with the license that will be granted. Thank you. Councillor Fitzroy. Thank you. I have a much more sort of mundane question. I'd like to know about the windows at the back. I know you said you would like to keep them closed. Is there any additional soundproofing that you could conceivably do to the windows such as double or triple blazing? And would you be amenable to having that as a license condition potentially? Yeah, we're definitely looking into that because we are planning to have our renovation anyway. So all this soundproofing, like sound control measurements, we are definitely going to prioritise. Yeah, because we do know the space we have in the local community. Sorry, could you just confirm what the glazing situation is on the windows currently? Are they single glazed? They are currently double. So we have double glazed windows. Currently double. But then we're going to put soundproofing curtains and materials around the area. So currently they have bars and it's double glazed. OK, thank you. So just to say, Mr Garner, we won't be taking questions from objectors at this stage. You'll have your moment a bit later on in the agenda. So we'd ask if you just lower your hand for the time being. Thank you. Can I just add, what's the capacity of the space? The maximum, including both of the floors, is 30. But I think after the renovation will be like 25 to 30. This is without performance space. So it's full capacity 30. And is there a desire at some point to have a tables and chairs license? Or is that not been included in some of this so far? They have been included as well. They've been included. So the maximum capacity of 30 is seated. That's not outside the premises. No, not outside. So we don't, we're not, we're not going to do any license for the outside. OK, that's what I wanted clarification on. Thank you both. Colleagues, any other questions at this stage? No. I don't have anything, thank you. Thank you both. With that comes the interested parties. So I believe we have two of the objectors on the call this evening. In order of their representations. It was Mr. Garner and then I can see Mr. O'Rourke has joined us as well. So Mr. Garner, if you could pop your camera on for us, please. Oh, Linda, did you have something you want to come in on as a question? Oh, sorry. Apologies, Mr. Garner, if you could wait a sec. Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I wanted to explore a bit more about whether you intend to have tables and chairs outside. Because one of the objectors has alleged that you or your predecessors do have tables and chairs outside for people to smoke. But for one thing, I'm concerned about how many people you might have outside smoking. Secondly, in view of the fact that your application does include off license sales of alcohol, that would mean that patrons could take alcoholic drinks. Or indeed any food or drinks outside to consume them at any tables and chairs. So I wonder whether you could clarify what the position is. Thank you, Councillor Braden. Sorry about that. I didn't realise that your hand was up as I was moving on. So currently from the previous cafe, they do have four chairs, two tables outside. It's not always usually been used. And other than smoking, there's also families that needs to use it because we have a big steps going to the cafe. So there's a lot of babies and stroller that sometimes they just leave it outside. And then sometimes if they just want to get a cookies, they stay outside. But as far as during the operations, I won't say there'll be more than three people at the time that are smoking outside. Because we also have the Nike up on the outside during the rainy days. But we don't have more than three at the same time smoking outside or wandering around outside our permits. And it's not our intention to have our outdoor outdoor space license at all. So we do not intend to have an outdoor space license. So it's just indoor and the maximum capacity is at 30. OK. Would you be prepared to add a condition that you will only have three people outside smoking or whatever? Yes. I mean, if if it helps to ease objective concerns, we will we can we can be we don't allow any because the is a main street. And we also understand if if it's create any sort of disturbance to the street and pedestrians, we're more than happy that conditions in. Wonderful. I wonder whether you could tell us a bit more about your premises. Again, objectors have referred to the courtyard garden. Is that something that you have access to? Or is that just residents of the flats above? It's just the residents of the flats about. So it's a gate at the back door. So our front door actually did not we're not parallel or at no front door where I can actually have no access to the courtyard. So it's actually just the back window that's double glazed. That's currently and it's also with bars on the windows. That's the only thing that we could see through into the courtyard. So there is no access for us towards the courtyard, not even deliveries or anything goes through from there or close to there. It's a completely it's on another street, the courtyard entrance and access. Cool. So do you envisage that your your your cafe will be open every evening till 1030? Our current operations like ideal operations idea would be Thursday and Friday or maybe on a Saturday. So we are looking more on a daytime operations of like from Tuesday to Sunday and we'll have a Monday as a break day. And then Thursday, Friday, Saturday will have evening open and we won't be having events on every Thursday, Friday, Saturday as well. So we just open for community events and maybe just open outdoor for snacks and drinks or our our menu, our food menu. So when you have. Sorry, how many more have you got there? When you have your events and so on, does that include people buying food and drink? I mean, yes, so all that is so to speak, it's all events will be ticketed. So if they want to come and see, we will. We have been thinking of also putting art students out there for people to come and see and experience. So depending on the event, some of them will be ticketed and sometimes they might include a snack and then. But we have no intention. So we will also have been discussing that we do not wish to sell a sale of alcohol without food. So we always like to bundle up like food and drinks. We don't want people just come by for just a drink and and we would like to bundle food and drink together because at the end of the day, our main selling point or whatever we we are doing now is to promote Southeast Asian Filipino food within the community. Would you be prepared to enter condition a condition that you will not have any. or let's put it this way that you will only have people drinking alcohol at seated at tables. Yes. Yeah. Cool. Yes. Okay. Thank you. That's all for me for the time being. Thank you so much. Thank you, Councillor Bray and Councillor Fitzroy. Now, apologies to the residents objectors for my overstepping on the agenda. But yes, we're absolutely ready for you now, Mr. Garner, if you're still there. And I believe just to remind advise you, you can only speak as per your objection, which can be found on pages 25 to 26 of the order paper. And you have up to three minutes. And if you can switch on your camera so we can see we're talking to that would be lovely. Thank you. Hello. Can you hear me? Very muffly. Yeah. I mean, I'm having a problem. My camera is turned on, but I've never used TV before. Sorry, Mr. Garner, we're really struggling to hear you. Yeah. Oh, there we go. That's better. Don't know what you've done, but that's good. I haven't done anything, I'm afraid. Okay. Three minutes from now. Sorry, the camera is turned on, but it's not working. Don't worry. We can hear you. It works on other applications, but not on Teams, obviously. So, obviously, the licence is being accompanied by a change of use and a change of hours, which is as much a concern as anything else. This unit has operated as a day cafe for 40 years, closing at three o'clock every day. As far as the residents of the block above and where I live, a few feet from the door and the rear of the building, there's been no problem at all. They don't even know there's a business there because they work during the day. This is going to be a major change. Along with the change of hours will come increased noise nuisance in the evening, both from the front and the back. The windows that have been described at the back are very large. They overlook our courtyard in an evening. The light is not normally on in those windows. Of course, they'll navigate and there'll be people sitting in the cafe overlooking our garden, our private garden, and there'll be light and there'll be potentially noise. You've talked about at the back the windows, the large windows, which are said to be closed during the events. The windows are left open every day and every night. The previous owner left the windows open even when the cafe was closed, fully open. It was a bizarre situation. It suggests that there is an issue with ventilation in the property. They only have opening windows on the rear of the property and every night the windows are left open. The current proprietors leave them open. It suggests that when they've got 30 people in there having an event, there may be no ventilation inside and they may be forced to open the windows to apply some ventilation. That concerns me greatly. We've heard a bit more about there's no impact on car parking. If people are going to be coming to dine in there in an evening or event, there will be cars. Cannot see why there would not be. At the moment, the cafe attracts no cars in an evening because it's simply not open. It's unlikely to attract cars during the day because its locals are walking in and out. It's not people coming for an event or coming for evening drinking and food. The. My query on the license is why do we need another licensed premise in Kennington? The local area is crowded with pub bars and hospitality offering alcohol locally. Four or five pubs and five restaurants are within 100 metres. And as far as off sales go, that also gives me great concern with people hanging around the door as you quite say, as you quite rightly say, and was quite right said early. Again, what the air is well supplied with local convenience stores offering alcohol until late. Tesco's local London is very close by. The London indeed operates all through the night as well. Why is another off license required, let alone another cafe serving alcohol? The. The. The increased football football of late night casual drinkers will link potential nuisance to crime and particularly if they drink in the straight or close by. Now we've been told they're not going to drink in the street. One other local premise, which we had a lot of problems with a few years ago, they turned to a model of doing parties, private parties and events. It was a nightmare because everybody in the summer spilled out onto the pavement. It's impossible to control after people have consumed alcohol, they just spill onto the street. You know, and I know you say you're going to control this. I'm presuming you're going to have security for these events if you're going to prevent that. Otherwise. Maybe ask you to wrap up a little bit there, Mr. Garner, please. I'm happy to wrap up. Thank you very much, sir. I think I should just explicitly state for the sake of the committee. Whilst I know it's in your rep about the need in the case of other additional spaces in Kensington, that does not consider it come into any consideration for the licensing subcommittee. It's not a factor to be able to refuse a license on the base of, oh, we have too much here. It has to be in line with the four licensing objectives. But you've spoke to that effectively within your representation. I'm going to ask Mr. O'Rourke to come in in a moment and his representation could be found on page 27. And then I'll ask and then if there's any questions of the committee, then we can ask the interested parties. Mr. O'Rourke, you have up to three minutes. Hi, can you hear me? We can hear you fine and see you fine. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you all. I've just three points to make and I'll be as quick as I can. My first is more general point. I'd like to bring to the attention of the committee a significant flaw in the operation of the council's licensing website. If you look at this particular application, you'll see that the council at the moment publishes the fact that there's no objections to this application. Clearly, this is incorrect and I believe to be a serious democratic deficit that prevents other people feeling that they may be able to make any real representation or complaint. Given that the council informs them incorrectly that nobody else is objective. I think it's a real problem. There's 40 residents in our block of flats and everybody's concerned about this. My second and more substantive point is that the requirement to have a license to serve alcohol comes directly from our lived experience as a community that shows us that when alcohol is served, we should expect there to be significant negative impacts to the immediate surroundings and the residents of the area. That's just why we have licensing. It's why your committee exists. And it's for this reason that the application contains lots of details of proposed mitigations that the applicant is prepared to undertake. And in examination and cross-examination from Councillor Brady, they give lots of reassurances. We are reassuring because we know there's going to be trouble. And given that tacit acknowledgement of the nuisance, it means that if the committee does grant this license, they'll have accepted that the negative significant impacts on the community and the residents of Cornwood Court. And I'll ask the committee, what is the merit of granting this license? What could possibly, other than the commercial gain for this company, nice and old people as they are, and I wish them no ill, it's a commercial gain of a private company. I understood that the company was eat down the sun and drink down the sun, but that seems to have changed. I may have been wrong about that. But the company purchased a day cafe lease, presumably at a reasonable price, given that the cafe was struggling. And now they're applying for an off-licence and an license to sell alcohol, hoping to increase the value and flexibility of that lease. All reasonable commercial objectives. But the increase in value that would come to that lease to the company, if you grant them the license, is paid directly by a decrease in the value of the residential leaseholders in Cornwood Court. Over 40 residents who pay council tax and who vote for their councillors to protect their interests and the interests of the rider community. They need to be protected and you should be standing up for them. The main reason that the license seems to be required is not to run the cafe, which we have no objection to. It's to run evening events, music events, music installations in the evenings. They they're portrayed as being poetry, language classes. I don't understand the need for alcohol in those settings. There's already, as Tim said, five or six purpose built licensed premises within a few hundred meters or so of the cafe. And they're all struggling for business. Most of these premises have suitable function rooms above and none of these premises have residents living directly above them. Because over time, it becomes obvious that it's not possible to mix the functioning of a public house or premises that sell alcohol with reasonable residential accommodation or quiet enjoyment, as the expression goes, is completely undermined. My third and final point is that we have to remind you that you have to speak as per your representation that you've made on pages 27 to 28. So if you can try and keep the point to that, please, thank you. Forgive me for not being 100% au fait with the ins and outs. It's important to let you speak. But thank you. Yeah. So my final point, and I'm trying not to waste your time, is that the community should be aware that there is already an excellent community resource in Dirlene Library where such events could be held and which would generate much needed resource for the library, a true community resource that needs our support and not competition. I'm not able to wreck their plans. I'm happy to support a local cafe that's operated in that way. But I do not want to live directly above a premises that is serving alcohol. And despite reassurances from the applicant, they know that they can't control other people all the time. Thanks for your time. And I'm sorry I'm coming off of agenda, but it's a tricky thing to understand and navigate, but directly affects our lives. Not at all, Mr. O'Rourke. And we fully appreciate that and can assure you that you're not wasting any of our time. So thank you very much for your points made. It was just strictly the legality of it. It has to do with the reps. So committee, do you have any questions or comments for either Mr. Garner or Mr. O'Rourke at this stage? None. Thank you both. So we move to the next part of the agenda, which is the subcommittee may recall the applicant to address the matters arising. And we usually would offer Angela and Nikki, the applicant, as a right to reply before we do that to either of the comments raised by the residents. Would you like to respond? We would just like to strengthen the points that we will do the best of our ability. It's very hard to say that our intention is not to build community activities, especially we have not been doing any of the night music events. But we have already practically started kids classes and every Sunday we have we do have activities like that to strengthen the community and bring everyone together. So I and and also I do agree with objectives that the windows were open by the previous owner and then we have already fixed the ventilation problem after we have moved into there. So the windows do not have to be open and actually throughout the whole winter, the windows at the back are all closed after we have taken over and we have already done improvement. done improvement and we have invested to make the place a better place to serve the community. Thank you. Before we then, Angela, did you want to chip in or? Well, I just want to say thank you and we really hear you guys and because you, yeah, you're part of the community as well. So of course, like we want to make it make things right for you and yeah, just to ensure that yeah, we can always, you know, have an open and honest communication conversation between us and in the future. Yeah, that's it. Thank you. Thank you both. So over to colleagues for any last minute questions before we move to deliberation, Linda. And then Olga. Thank you. I am slightly concerned about one issue that one of the residents made and that is the large window at the back which overlooks the courtyard garden. Is it the case that this is plain glass because I can see that there might be an element of a feeling of over being overlooked and, you know, possibly light nuisance and so on. Could you comment on that, please? I'm currently because the cafe was not equipped for any nighttime events or to operate night, but then during the renovation before we start operating at night, we will install all soundproof curtains. So those deep draped curtains to make sure that further soundproof has been in place and all the curtains will be closed at the same time, especially when when it's a glass both sides can see each other. So if we are in an art event or even if we if it feels just like to our customers that they're having dinner at a place and they're being looked at as well at the same time. All the other curtains and everything will be closed at night. And I think because in the front door that we have our front door is actually full glass as well. So that's not the main source of of lights as well. So if if we found out that there will be nuisance of we receive complaints that even the daytime that they feel being looked at or or create any disturbance. we're more than happy to keep those curtains closed in the daytime as well. Thank you. Olga. Thank you just quickly. So I've got a really clear picture in my mind. I just like to understand a bit more about the types of events that you'd like to hold in an evening outside of the kind of normal meals and drinks. What types of events are you envisaging? Thank you. So we are thinking to. To basically just create a platform for people to try out stuff and different artists. And I think because when I introduced myself, when we had the in person meeting, I introduced myself as a musician. So they more tend to, you know, think that the sonic and sound music event would be, you know, permanent for what we are going trying to do. But that is actually not the case. And we are so quite a lot of events and happenings will be, you know, will be in sort of conversation level setting. So it would be like quite quiet and I'm just kind of, you know, creating the, yeah, the relationship with people. And because, yeah, I've been there and yeah, I think, you know, spaces like this is important for people to feel that they are heard and they're seen. Yeah. Do you mind if I just have a quick follow up to that question chair? No, go for it. Thank you. I just want to understand a little bit more. Will it be always amplified music? Would it be spoken word, acoustic music, electronic music? I know you can't say 100% what everything will be in the future, but I just want to get a bit of an idea whether it be all amplified music or half amplified music or something. Do you know what I mean? Sorry to jump in, I think because Andrew's actually, she's, she's an artist. So I think to her this, this becomes a more complicated next level question, but like, because I have an audience who always attend her event and some of her collections events. So most of them I would say is experimental, giving a platform for young artists to come together to learn what they're doing and to do things with each other. So maybe someone would be a student from the Royal Music School that where she graduated from will come in and see just an event on like, oh, maybe I can have a few friends here and then we can explore what we can do together. As in so tonight, maybe, for example, is is a music night that we all discuss. We invite a few cello artists from maybe Germany and then a few local students to come in and around. I wouldn't say they won't play the cello for example. Of course they will. But they won't be like any DJ platforms like speakers and things like that. So and we will we because we've been there and operating for a few months and definitely nothing with a heavy bass and anything because that's not a sound traveling anymore. It's is is the it's is that that's going on. So what we are going to do is the space also won't allow any for more than a three piece or two piece band or musical instruments to allow be in there. So we don't see see that in any case anyway. So it would be more like experience sharing and also where we're coming from. We wanted to build a local. My husband's from Philippines, so we wanted to have a Southeast Asian community, even just like I'm a mother. So it might be mother sharing night, wine night for moms and like Hong Kong people getting together for the night sharing like local food and stuff like that. So it's more space for community and for people who are minority to be heard and in space that we created. So we just got into this idea after this country's classes with the kids or like a lot of moms actually were like the kids are having fun. But and then we got like into into this idea of like having it open at night as well. OK, cool. Can I just sorry to the residents? We can't come back to you for any comments or questions. I'm afraid we're going to be moving to deliberation in a moment. So Councillor Bray and then I think we're going to move on. I just wanted to point out that in your application, you haven't applied for live music or recorded music. I'm not sure that you necessarily need whether those two activities fall within licensing regulations. But just to point out that they're not actually included in your application. Because we're not doing I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong on this, but they mentioned that it actually has to be above certain threshold to do the entertainment. So we have been in touch with the musical licensing department as well. We've been checking on if ever we do do a live music event like a performance will definitely do that. But if it's just a few people bringing the instruments into the the the premises for a exchange of experience night instead of a ticketed event, I think that's where they comes in until the hours and also how many people be attending at the same time. I think it was stated earlier that you'd have to apply for attendance in that particular notice, which is a temporary events notice. Is that not right, Selena? Hi. Yeah, that's correct. So in terms of live, amplified and recorded music, you can have up to audiences of up to 500 people between the hours of 8am and 11pm without a licence. And I think thereafter, the applicant would have to apply for a temporary events notice. Thanks for that quick clarification, Selena. Yeah, thank you very much. I can see you understand all the licensing regulations and so on. So thanks very much. All right. On that note, shall we ask people to stay on the call? Don't go anywhere too long and we will go off and discuss this and we'll be back momentarily. Thank you. Thanks, Kai. Oh, I can see the screen as is now, but I believe we're here. Hi, everyone. Thanks for bearing with us. I just want to double check both applicants are here and objectors are present too still. Great. Without further ado, the licensing subcommittee having carefully considered all of the material related to this application and having heard from the applicants and objectors have determined to grant the application as sought with the agreed conditions with the licensing authority. In addition to those conditions, members impose the following conditions of the premises license number one, a direct telephone number for the manager of the premises should be publicly available at all times that the premises is open. This number is to be made available to residents and businesses in the vicinity. Any complaint shall be remedied within 48 hours and details to be recorded in the incident book, including the action taken by the manager. To patrons permitted to temporary leave and then reenter the premises to smoke should be restricted to a designated smoking area at the front of the premises and the maximum number of patrons permitted within this area shall not exceed three persons. All windows and external doors should be kept closed after 2100 hours or at any time when regulated entertainment takes place, except for the immediate access and aggressive persons. Members were also minded to agree to impose the conditions suggested by the applicants regarding the sunset clause and would ask that the wording of that condition is made available to the licensing authority for review. Members were satisfied that granting this application would not undermine the licensing objectives and that doing so was both appropriate appropriate and proportionate and that the additional conditions largely addressed concerns raised. With that in mind, we thank you very much for your participation participation this evening and you're welcome to stay for the rest of the meeting, but now we move on to the next item of the agenda. Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. O'Rourke. Thank you, Mr. Garner. Thank you, Mr. O'Rourke. OK, so now we move on to, let me just bring up my agenda. Apologies. This is item 4B on the agenda for La Sirena, which is a review application and I'm going to ask Nicole if you could introduce, I was asking, sorry, Ola first if you could introduce the application and then we'll come to you, Nicole. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you, Chair. This is an application to review the premises license for La Sirena at 30 to 38 Brickson Station Road. The application was submitted by the licensing authority. It was following breaches of the premises license. In attendance for the licensing authority is Nicole Terrier and in attendance for the license holder are Isama Diaz Alcantara and Jared Onyarcha, which is representing the license holder. The licensing subcommittee reports is at pages 29 to 33 of the agenda pack. The review application is at pages 35 to 39 and the proposed additional measures by the license holder are at pages 41 to 45 of the report. One representation was received in support of the review from the police who have been represented by PC Allen Bay and their representation is at pages 47 to 51. Four representations were received in support of the premises from members of the public and their representations are at pages 53 to 60. One of the residents, one of the residents, one of the members of the public has indicated they will be attending is Erica Marrero. I'm not sure if they are in attendance yet. Is Erica there with you guys at the venue? Sorry. Not really. Myself. I'm Jared. I'll be speaking on behalf of. So it was just to clarify if Erica's there in the room. It was just who the third person is with you guys there. No, no, she's not there. Thank you. And that concludes my introduction and I'll ask Ms. Terrier to present his applications. Thanks Ola. Nicole, thank you. Thank you. As Ola has stated, this is an application for the review of the premises license for La Serena at 30 to 30 A Brixton Station Road under Section 51 of the Licensing Act. The review has been submitted by Lambeth Licensing Authority on the grounds that the premises license holder has failed to promote the licensing objectives of the prevention of crime and disorder and public safety. The premises license was granted and issued following the licensing subcommittee hearing of 7th November 2024 last year, so around six months ago. The permitted hours and activities on that license are set out in the review application and also at Section 3 of the case report and the premises license is at Annex E. No seasonal variations apply to the hours on the license. Less than a month after the licensing subcommittee of the 7th of November, on 3rd of December, police officers came across a male injured in the street who stated he had been assaulted in La Serena. The call to the police was at 1.39am and CCTV footage showed that the premises were open beyond the permitted time. 3rd of December was a Tuesday and they were supposed to be closed at 12.30am. As the application states, on 1st of January there was an altercation between two groups of males on Brixton Station Road. 1st of January was a Wednesday and the venue was supposed to be closed at 12.30am. CCTV footage showed that the venue was still open at 5.40am. Following these incidents, the premises were called to a meeting with the council and police licensing teams. And that was on the 3rd of January and that was to discuss the incidents. You'll see from the police representation there are further incidents related to the premises after that meeting took place. The premises license holder Azabachi Limited have provided a written response to the review application and that is in the report pack at Annex B. We're sorry to hear of the issues that the DPS designated premises supervisor, Mrs. Diaz Alcantara, had with her pregnancy and of her serious family problems that are mentioned. The document refers to the DPS not being able at times to fully and effectively be in control of the premises. That is an extremely concerning admission. The expectation would be, for example, to close the premises at such a period or for arrangements to be made so that the premises are run effectively, responsibly and safely in line with the promotion of the licensing objectives. The assertion that the premises license holder has decided to change the DPS and that no change of DPS application has been made to the council to our knowledge does not give confidence that there is an understanding of the licensing regulations and requirements. The document at Annex B also lists further measures. However, this does not go far enough and a number of the suggested measures are already conditions on the license or would be a reasonable expectation of a responsible premises license holder. For example, having challenge 25 and checking ID is in place already at Annex 3 of the license as a condition, and there's also mention of the prohibition of the sale of alcohol to under 18s and that's the law already. There's mention of working, liaising with and cooperating with Lambeth Council, the police and other responsible authorities to ensure that the licensing objectives are essentially in place and that is already a requirement on the license holder. There's also repeated mention of licensing, sorry, liaising with the police and seeking advice and adopting their recommendations. There seems to be a reliance on the police therefore for the license holder to meet their obligations and there is not that resource available to handhold this premises. And we have hundreds of premises across the borough. In the response, there's also mention of zero tolerance to drinking games, which is already a condition on the license, likewise CCTV. There's also mention of training and the expectation would be that any training manuals would have been made available by this stage. Sorry, just bear with me. OK. OK. It should also be noted that the Companies House website indicates that Asabatchi Limited, the premises license holder, has one officer listed acting as director of the company, who is the DPS on the license, Mrs. Diaz Alcantara. There's no confidence therefore that replacement of the DPS, even where such an application is made, would result in the improvement to the management of the premises, nor the effective and consistent promotion of the licensing objectives. Given the lack of confidence in the premises license holder, the breaches of the conditions of the license and the incidents that have occurred in the few short months the license has been held, the licensing authority has no confidence in the premises license holder to promote the licensing objectives and request therefore that the premises license is revoked. Thank you, Nicole. I'm going to come to the committee for questions in a moment, but just to give Ms. Diaz Alcantara and Mr. Onyan Shah an idea of how the process is going to go. The committee will now ask questions of Nicole, will then come to the police for them to present their findings and then will come to yourselves for a kind of right to reply for both, but also to then make a presentation for yourself. So there'll be plenty of time for questions and ways to kind of comments and just ask you to bear with us as we go through the process. Colleagues, are there any questions to Nicole at this stage? No. With that in mind then, so Mr. So is it PC Bay? Don't know if you're there. Yes, good evening. Oh, hello. Good evening. We thought. So yeah. Do you want to address the licensing committee for up to five minutes? Yes, sure. I mean, just to reinforce there what Nicole said, I suppose Nicole has put forward the majority of the case that we've already discussed. Myself and PC Watson just adds a little bit to myself and PC Watson did meet Miss Diaz prior to her license being granted. And the purpose of us meeting at the venue was to ensure that the licensing conditions were understood. So one point I wanted to bring up was that we were made aware by the DPS. They also ran another licensed premises, I think in North London or North of the river. And that they were we were ensured that they understood the licensing conditions that they were asking for. It was also to an opportunity for us to meet the DPS and just to give a little bit of advice around the local area and really to be of assistance to them. But from that point forward, it was really over to them to run the premises. And as Nicole has mentioned that within a very short period of time there, within two months, there are four incidents that we've mentioned. One of those was quite a serious incident on the. Let me just get the correct date for you. The I think it's the first of January this year, there was quite a serious incident by where. The victim of the crime sort of victim of the incident was taken to hospital with potential life changing injuries. I believe he severed an artery. So that was kind of the extent of the injuries as a result of the incidents taking place. Then the meeting, of course, was put together to try and intervene and assist and make these things better. And clearly that didn't work and following that meeting, as already mentioned, there were further incidents. So really that's kind of just sort of my input in support of the revocation of the license. Thank you, PC Bay colleagues. Do you have any questions at this time or. Councillor Fitzroy. Thank you. I've got a question for the police officer, please. Reading through the report, the assault that took place on the 3rd of December, where again, it appeared that the premises was operating outside of its hours. Apologies if I've missed something in the written report. I just would like to know what time was the premises opening? Oh, sorry, it was for the 1st of January incident. What time was the premises found to be operating at that incident? I'm not entirely sure. I wasn't the one who looked into it, but I believe Matt has mentioned already, maybe in five o'clock in the morning by Nicole, I think. So I think that was when the call was made about the injury. It's not quite clear. Sorry, Nicole. Yeah, go for it. Sorry, if I can just clarify. Yes, please. On investigating that incident on the 1st of January, police reviewed CCTV footage and the premises were shown to still be open at 5.40am over five hours after they were permitted. And the incident on the 3rd of December, the call to police around the person being assaulted within the premises was at 1.39am and the closing time was 12.30am on both incidents. OK, thank you. Thank you, Councillor Fitzroy. Any other questions at this stage? No. OK, so it's at this point in the proceedings where we, Mrs. Diaz Alcantara, Mr. Onyantcha. Sorry, I hope I've said that. Onyantcha, sorry, my apologies. You now have up to five minutes to address the licensing subcommittee. Oh, Chair, thank you very much. And so we're here to speak on behalf of Mrs. Diaz. And she's, as you know, the people have spoke before, they've said, for instance, what happened at the venue. But just to give you a background, Mrs. Diaz was pregnant at this time. So being the DPS because of her pregnancy, she was not able to run the business effectively. So and she had, you know, pregnant complications. And so at times she was absent from the venue. And and then she would have not been able to manage the venue effectively. But like we've said on the Retta Wheel lot that we put some measures in place. We've changed a few things and we requested the council to allow. And they, you know, the committees are committed to allow the venue to change the DPS to a new DPS who's going to be able to manage the venue effectively and, you know, change things around. The venue employs currently about 11 residents in Lambeth. So surely closing the venue will be a negative impact on those 11 families. So it's people, 11 people currently employed here. So we were just requesting the venue, the subcommittee to allow the licence so that we could change DPS with immediate effect. And then a security team has been changed as well. The staff have been trained, retrained on how to manage their licensing objectives, particularly how to prevent crime and disorder and how to keep the public safe. Most of the incidents that happened did not happen within the premises. They've happened outside the premises where the DPS was not in direct control, things that were happening outside. But, you know, there was a bit of lack of management. So we're requesting if the subcommittee were allowed the licence. So the venue could change the DPS. So there's a few things, again, that we're putting in place, you know, machines to scan IDs that will pass information directly to the police. So if there's any individuals that would potentially cause trouble, so they are found in good time. So the new DPS would ensure that their licensing objectives are being complied with. They're going to ensure that their premises is, you know, preventing crime, preventing disorder, and they're going to make sure the public is kept safe. Their new security team is going to ensure that only appropriate people could enter the venue. And some individuals that have been known to cause troubles in the past have been banned from coming to the premises and permanently banned. And then the new security team is going to keep an eye on the entrance to make sure that the venue is operating legally and, you know, in line with the licensing objectives. The venue has always cooperated with the police. They've not, you know, not cooperated with the police. They've cooperated with the police. They provided footage, everything the police needed. The DPS cooperated. And so we're just requesting that the licensing subcommittee would allow, bearing that in mind that the venue is going to be potentially under new management, that the licensing committee would allow that to happen. Yeah, so. Yeah, and they, the new DPS would, you know, work with the licensing committee, work with the police to ensure that their licensing objectives are being enforced. So that was the request that if the licensing committee can allow the venue to change the DPS to a new DPS, you know, change things around these measures that have been put in place so that these incidents don't happen again. Thank you, Mr. Onyanshaw. Does that conclude what you want to say at this stage? Yeah, that's it for now, unless you have any questions to answer. I'm sure there's plenty of questions to come, definitely. So Councillor Fitzroy, dive in. Thank you. To start off with, I would like to know why it is that the application for a new DPS has not yet been received, given the seriousness of this situation for you with the licence review. All right, ma'am. We, we, I should answer that? Yes, please. All right, ma'am. We were thinking the licensing subcommittee would take place. And once they, they will make a decision to allow us to do that. So if, so we do know that we need to do that straight away. So we were waiting for the licensing subcommittee to have a seating. Allow us to, that's one of the decisions that are going to make to allow us to change the DPS to a new one. And then we're going to put in application for that straight up. Do you want to follow up, Councillor Fitzroy or? Not really, thank you. Um, Councillor Bray? Um, so I hear what you say as to why you haven't, um, recorded a new DPS. But, um, I'm surprised that bearing in mind that the, uh, serious incidents which occurred, um, and the fact that, um, you were open way past, um, the terminal hour. That, um, you, you know, you still have, um, the same DPS. I, I, um, and, um, have you, who has been the DPS, um, in the meantime? Is it still, um, Miss Diaz? Miss Diaz. Miss Diaz. Miss Diaz. Miss Diaz. Miss Diaz. But the new DPS has been coming in to help. And at the time she was, uh, pregnant, she had a few complications. The child was delivered earlier than expected because of the complications. And so she was not able to be fully in charge at the time. But now since she's delivered, she's able to be here on time that the new DPS have been trying to help. So we were waiting for the subcommittee to have a seating and then, you know, give our proposal. And if allowed, then we're going to put an application for the new DPS. Okay. Okay. Um, well, what about management of the premises? Um, I assume that Miss Diaz is still the manager or owner or director of the company. Miss Diaz, ma'am, she's going to give up the management to the new DPS to run the premises. Yeah, but she's, yeah, but the DPS isn't quite the same as the manager. Or the management. Well, the DPS in my understanding is usually the venue manager and then there's the management. So there's going to be a new DPS ma'am and Mrs. Diaz is going to, she's, she's the business owner overly, but she's not going to be involved in the management of the premises, if you understand what I'm saying, ma'am. So she's going to be more so on this side. And then there's going to be a main DPS that we want to apply for. There's going to be managing the venue on our behalf. OK, thank you. Could I ask a couple of questions about the premises? One moment, Councillor Bray. Olga, did you want to jump in on a similar point or can Councillor Bray follow up with these two? Councillor Bray is free to go on, but I've got to prepare the questions as well. Yeah, fine, I just thought it was to do, just to do with the DPS. If I just may as well and just around the DPS. Can I say something? Sorry. Not at this stage. No, but when we will invite you to when we're discussing questions. So if you bear with us, Misty, there'll be plenty of opportunity. It was, it was just around the comment that Mr. Onyan Cha said. And around now, and of course we have every sympathy if you've had a complicated pregnancy and we hope mother and baby are doing really well. And thank you very much for being here for this hearing this evening. I suppose it was if those incidents were able to happen in your absence, then we'd like to hear a little bit more about who was kind of running the show when you weren't there. And then and your judgment and who that was and and then who the DPS might then be afterwards. So when she was away, she was mostly running the venue remotely through the telephone and lazing with the staff. But if you've said that this incident, these incidents happened because she wasn't on the premises, then who was and who and are they still working for the premises? No, most of the stuff that we had at the time have been changed. So we have a new security team and near, apart from two or three from the past, but most of the stuff have been changed because they weren't effective in running the venue on that behalf. So the new staff have been trained and the new DPS are going to take off from us. So my question was who was running things whilst those incidents were happening? And there was a supervisor who was running the venue, who was your assistant? Yeah. Who was it? Who was it? Who was it? Who was it? Who was it? Who was it? Who was it? Who was it? Who was it? So she had somebody that was, she was popping in and out, popping in and out. But the staff were running, but she was popping in and out and she was on the phone most of the time to the staff, sir. Okay, so I mean, I've not heard who has been running things in the app. I mean, I think it's quite for a DPS then to have someone appointed in their absence. Understandably, it's just helpful for us to know who that point, the ability to be able to, you know, let other people run things while the DPS isn't there. It was just important to have that clarification. Linda, shall I come back to you for your follow up questions? Or following Councillor Robson, I do appreciate, you know, your difficulties in pregnancy and so on and have, you know, great sympathy with that. But nevertheless, I do find it surprising that a fundamental oversight, for want of a better word, occurred because the premises on more than one occasion were open way past the terminal hour. So I do find it difficult to understand how such an oversight could have occurred, you know, albeit that Ms. Diaz was not on the premises, but even so. Yes, ma'am. So the staff that were there, I think their management skills were a bit wanting and they were not able to fully control their customers to get them out of the venue on time. So then the closing hours dragged was the one able, the one not able to get the customers out sometimes. But that's changed since, ma'am. And we, like we said, with the new DPS, we are, you know, promising the council and the local authority and all the other, you know, responsible authorities like the police incidents are not going to happen again with the new DPS that's going to be in place. OK, thank you. I just asked about your business and so on. Could you tell us, you operate as a nightclub, is that correct? And also from the plans attached to your licence, the premises seem to be fairly small. Could you describe, you know, what takes place at your club and how many people, how many patrons do you usually have? Is there any majority of any sort of number over which you sort of refuse additional patrons entry? Yeah. OK. So at the premises, ma'am, it's usually about 100, well, roughly about 100 to 120 patrons that we lie in the venue. That's the capacity, yeah? Yes, sir. Thank you. And it's usually, you know, dancing music and just, you know, drinks being served to the customers and some light snacks. OK. And is there just... Sorry, Linda, I'm going to... Councillor Fitzroy's been waiting patiently there, so I'll come over. Thank you, Chair. Just a couple of... I mean, if Linda's got something really related, I don't mind just giving away... Sure. No, carry... no, do carry on. OK. Yeah, so my question is, I guess, going back to the two incidents, you know, we've got no evidence of whether they were isolated incidents or not. But the two incidents where the police and the CCTV showed the premises to be operating way outside of its terminal hour. I mean, you're saying that it's because of the staff in the premises lost control of the customers. Obviously, that is concerning in itself. But at one point, the premises were opening until 5.30. Are you saying that that is pure because the staff lost control of the customers? And this isn't just like 10 minutes later. This is five, over five hours after the terminal hour. And nobody thought to call the police to remove the customers at this point. Can you just explain a little bit how the customers stayed there until five, till gone five o'clock when the terminal hour was, I believe, half past midnight or midnight? Yes, ma'am. So on a few occasions, the staff would have called the police and then they they not on these particular occasions, but these other occasions where the police were called. Unfortunately, they were not able to attend. So. And I know the mistake, the mistakes have been made in the past. We were not making any excuses. We're just saying those were mistakes that were made. We're really sorry for those mistakes. And there's no way we were going to try and justify that, which is mistakes were made. We're really sorry about them. We're going to say that going forward, they've landed us and that's not going to happen again. And they've. OK, so sorry to cut you off. I'm just trying to establish some more facts here. So are you saying on the occasion where the premises was operating till gone five that the police was called and they did not attend or that the police was not called? Just so I'm clear in my mind. On these occasions, the police were not called men, but there was other. OK, so so so there were patrons that were so out of control that the staff could not close the premises, yet they chose not to call the police. Not on this occasion, Mim, I'm just saying. Can I ask, sorry, as well, whether the staff understood the terminal hour or whether there was some confusion about the terminal hour? Because I mean, I appreciate and I've got a lot of sympathy for Miss Diaz being off with pregnancy complications. I really do. But I mean, from my experience of having worked in hospitality a long time ago that, you know, even the newest person behind the bar knows what time the terminal hour is. So I would just want to understand whether the staff didn't know the terminal hour or whether they had the place was just completely out of control. It's one of those two things, isn't it? Can I say something? Yes. I'm going to say sorry about that big mistake that I made like a DPS because I make a big mistake. But I know and I'm sure that is not happen again because I know when I lost the only job and the only thing that I got in my life. And I have to work hard for my kids, for my family. And if you if you guys only give me the last chance in the last opportunity, because here we do class of bachata, we do cultural thing and I would like to keep the place open. But if you are sorry, we're just sorry, really sorry to cut you off. I just want to establish evidence, really, I think, because we were only meant to make decisions based on evidence. So I'm just would like an answer to my question, really, please. Whether it was the staff were unaware of what the terminal hour was or did they know what time closing time was, but they had just lost control completely and failed to call the police. I just want to understand which of those two scenarios took place. Thank you. Thanks, Councillor Fitzroy. So if you could answer that, please. And then we move on to some of the questions. I think it is chair. So I think it's a case where a staff had just, you know, lost control of the customers and they decided, you know, just to carry on regardless of the time. And we really applauded for that. And like we've said, Mr. Diaz has promised that going forward, we give a concrete assurance that that's not going to happen again. OK, thank you. Councillor Bray. It appears that in one of the incidents, somebody was stabbed. I was wondering what provision you made sort of at the time to, I mean, did you do any searching of patrons before they entered the premises to ensure that they didn't have any bladed articles on them or anything like that? Yes, ma'am. So we have a very good security team and the two incidents that happened didn't happen in the venue per se. They happened outside. So the patrons would have left the venue and then they didn't happen outside the premises. So when they come into the venues, they get searched, you know, to make sure nobody brings any prohibited, any weapons or any prohibited items in their venue. And these incidents really happened outside where the security staff didn't have much control after the patrons had left the venue. Well, according to the statement of Trevor Virtue, for example, there was an incident inside the premises. Yeah, there was a fight inside the premises. When? No. When? Well, as per your order. What day? What day? Pardon? Hang on a minute. I need to know the date. I need to know the date. I need to know the date. If you would refer to page 49 of your order paper, you'll see the list of incident histories as provided by the police. Inside the premises. Yes, the first incident, which was on the 3rd December 2025, the victim received injuries as a result of being assaulted in La Serena. The person that was inside, that person was under 18 years old and that person was waiting for the people was here inside. That person, that person, I think, have to be in jail because he was waiting for the people to make that problem outside. I think it still doesn't. I'm explaining to the... Okay, Miss Diaz, if you could please wait until Councillor Bray's follow up question because Anna will ask PC Bay to clarify. But Linda, did you have a follow up or should I go straight to PC Bay? Yes, go straight to PC Bay, please. For clarification, please. Yes, Craig. So the purpose of the call on the 3rd December was that police were called as a direct result, and this is from the victim, that they were assaulted inside the premises. The way that we established that you were operating beyond hours was as a result of a request for CCTV relating to the assault that took place inside the premises. And that is what then has led us to discover that you were operating after hours. Thank you for that clarification. Linda, did you have a follow up question on that? I'm sorry, was that... Did you just say as well that there was no CCTV at the time? Sorry, I requested... CTTV was requested for the 3rd, and that was provided. And that's how they discovered that the venue was operating after hours. Gotcha, thank you. Linda. Linda. I think that at the moment that's all I want to ask. Thank you. Councillor Fitzroy, was there anything from yourself? And additionally? No, thank you. Thank you all. So it would be at this point of the meeting where we would invite any interested parties. Now, I don't believe, despite the fact that we had confirmation that Erica was going to come and speak in favour of the premises, I don't believe they're here. So at this stage, there isn't any interested parties, though we note the representations that have been made in the report. So I suppose we can recall the premises, should there be any other kind of questions or comments? And in turn, colleagues, if you want to ask any further questions, but I think we'll probably move to a deliberation fairly shortly. Was there anything Miss Diaz or your colleagues would like to say or address to the committee? Yes, I want to say something. I'm going to say again, apologize for that day that I made that problem for the council and everything and the police too. But with the police, I'm collaborating at all the time. I give the cameras, I give the videos and also I give as far evidence that I got about that file that that client sent to me. Because I'm going to collaborate with the police all the time. I don't have any problem in the area with anyone and with the customer too. And also that day that customer fight outside because I saw the camera after and that customer fight outside. If they got problem after that, if they got problem after that, in far away from here, I think it's not my mistake. But the mistake that I did, I know what is the mistake that I did. But not when, for example, some people can say I was in Azurenia and they have some problem outside. It's not my fault because I can't take them and put in the sleep or give like, you know, I try to do my best. OK, yeah, I mean, if there's anything else that you want to expand on there, Mr. S, because this is kind of the point. I mean, I'll come to you in a sec, Councillor Bray. But this is the real point to address about, you know, this is in general as well, not just specifically to do with those kind of couple of instances. So I will say that, you know, it is the responsibility of premises to be looking after patrons that also leave outside as well. So I suppose I would just come back to my kind of initial question that I wasn't sure I want to give you another chance to answer it. And that's kind of around then. And it's quite an important one, I think, as the DPS around your judgment, as in the sense of who is then going to be running things for you as this new DPS, because we don't really have an understanding of who this person might be. And all we have to go on is your previous record of of allocating who that new DPS will be. So I was just wondering. Yeah. So the new DPS is going to be if the prince is allowed, he's going to we're going to apply for the new DPS straight. So he's going to be charming. So he's been trained effectively. And he's going to Mr. German is going to try and run the venue in line with the licensing objectives and ensure that the premises is going to comply with the licensing objectives. So that's a suggestion that the current DPS hasn't done that. We were hoping that after the subcommittee is going to allow us to straight away apply for the new DPS to be changed. Okay. Yeah. Ola, were you wanting to come in there on the procedural point before I go over to Councillor Bray? Yes, chair, if you don't mind. I think just on the point of the DPS, once the DPS application has been submitted, that application will be cancelled. They will be sent to the police for their comments. So they will have an objection or not objection on whether they're satisfied with the person that's been appointed to be the new DPS. Thank you. I just wanted the applicant to have the opportunity to state the case as well. Sorry, not the applicant, the premises. Councillor Bray, and then I think we're probably ready to go to deliberation. Thank you. Thank you. I note from your licence that you don't have any drinking up time. In other words, the times for when you cease serving alcohol are the same as the opening hours of the premises. Are you with me? I wonder whether that is one reason why you have difficulty in getting patrons out of the club at the appointed hour. Because if they bought a drink, you know, ten minutes before closing time, they're not going to be sort of very happy about being ejected when they haven't finished their drink. So, I mean, have you considered having an earlier hour for stopping selling alcohol, if you're with me? Yes, ma'am. So that's one of the things the premises considered that clients and patrons will be stopped serving alcohol an hour before closing time. And there's going to be announcements so that when we get to the closing time, patrons have been given enough time to finish their drinks and leave the venue without any problems. So the last customers are going to be served an hour before closing time. And there's going to be announcements to remind the customers the venue is going to be closed. So at the time of closing, we're not going to have any of these problems that they've had in the past, ma'am. OK, well, you'd have to alter the terms of your licence to do that, I think. Yes, ma'am. OK, thank you very much. Are there any other comments before we go to deliberation? OK, thank you, everybody. But we ask you to just sit there and bear with us and we will be back in due course. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everybody for bearing with us. Is everybody present or just waiting for Council of Fitzroy to join us? OK, so. With that in mind, Linda's here, I'll proceed, sorry. Is Miss Diaz with, oh, she comes now. Thank you for bearing with us, guys. Thank you. Sorry, just while we were having a good deliberation. OK, so. The Licensing Subcommittee has carefully considered this review application, including the written and oral submissions made this evening and have determined that the application primarily engages the prevention of crime and disorder and public safety strands of the licensing objectives and thus its discretion under the Licensing Act 2003. In considering what is appropriate and proportionate for the promotion of the licensing objectives, the Subcommittee agreed with the submissions made by the responsible authorities and that the breach of conditions and poor senior management was relevant when determining the review. The consideration has been given of the premises license holders proposal that further conditions be imposed on the license, a change proposed change of the DPS and the other insurance assurances provided. However, the Subcommittee did not consider that this approach would promote and uphold the licensing objectives. The Subcommittee was concerned with how the premises was managed on a daily basis and whilst the premises license holder and her agent gave assurances, the Subcommittee had no confidence that the promised changes would be implemented properly. The Subcommittee also noted that the premises license was already heavily conditioned and took the view that removing the DPS was not appropriate in these circumstances. The Subcommittee would only take such action for revocation of a premises license as a last resort. However, the Subcommittee would also have the view that the operation of the premises outside of its terminal hours, lack of sufficient management when incidents took place, left them with little confidence that these premises would be managed in such a way as to promote the licensing objectives. Members have carefully considered all options open to it, but we are not satisfied that the other less onerous steps available alone or in combination would likely achieve the same objective. Therefore, the Subcommittee has determined that revocation is the only appropriate option and that this step is proportionate in all the circumstances. Full written reasons for the decision will follow, but that is the result. That is the view of the licensing subcommittee this evening. Thank you to everybody for attending the meeting, as we've just mentioned, you will get notified. уз. Thank you for teaching. Thank you for coming out. Thank you for listening as much constipation and understanding of��s, this SB強 strength, we will be available at the end. The open service cereals. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening. Thanks for listening to me to tend to be here in the next video. The O shirt like怎么 Crime 8th deck and we will be available. Also starting with me calledブ flu welcome. 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