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[BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] [BLANKAUDIO] Thank you very much, that is carried, thank you very much Mr. Filmer. We're now going to move to the supplemental item number five budget outrun, outrun report of 2023. We now move to supplemental report published on the gender item five, which I have agreed to be published in order to provide additional context for the gender item four. I call upon Matt Filmer responsible financial officer to present the report, thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Mayor, just apologies this was a late supplementary item. But it's important that it goes in this order because the numbers from this outrun report feed into the annual government's accountability return. So just to summarize the budget for 2324 in its outrun, the charge trustee's underspend by just over 18,000 pounds. Most of that underspend or almost entirely the underspend was what we prefer to the variable areas, such as the mayor events and hospitality. 70% I think of the Board of Trustees are fixed, so they're fixed charge from the council, so it's all those non-fixed charges where we've seen the underspend of the year. So that underspend has been added to the total reserves for the charge trustees, which at the beginning of 2023 should just shy of 91,000. And the character for reserves is about 103,000. Slightly smaller than the 18,000 underspend that's because of proportion to 2324 budget was to be supported by reserves. So that's why there's a slight difference in terms of what's been used, but appendix A to that report sets out all the details of the expenditure and income and the final position. So I'll stop there, Mr. Mayor, but happy taking any questions. Any questions or debate on the outrun report? Councillor. I am naive on my part and excuse me because of the document, but if we underspend by that amount and we've allocated to the reserves for the budget moving forward. Does that mean that there's going to be another underspend at the end of the next year, and really should we be looking at actually sort of taking that out of the reserves and seeing, well, just keep the reserve as it is and put that back into the full council budget where we need money, which does not work like that. Thank you very much, Councillor. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'd have to just double check the 2425 budget for the Board of Trustees, but I believe a part of that is to be funded from reserves. And that's normally a fixed amount. So if you assume we spend the budget to the letter, we will draw down that amount of reserves. But if we overspend or underspend, that will change that drawdown of reserves. Okay, and that reserve will then just carry forward every year. It has been picked up in the internal order report around the level of reserves and the plans to use those reserves. So whether they could fund one of events, one of the activities, et cetera, but that's for the Trustees to determine. So just following up on that, at what point would we be able to consider using any of that money to offset the preset. For you, Mr. Mayor, that would be, normally that decision would be taken as part of the budget tree workshops that we have pre January. December, when we actually hold the preset meeting. So it's for Charter Trustees to decide if they wanted to reduce the preset and offset it by reserves they can do. It would need to be on this decision, obviously, on that. But bear in mind, when you use reserves, they're one off. So if you to drop the preset one year, you might have to increase it the following year. So it's just something to be aware of when you use reserves to support the budget. Thank you very much, Mr. Filmer. Just before we come to yourself, Councillor Trent, if it adds a little bit of value to the Trustees, I attended. Yes, that he was it day before the raising of the flag for armed forces day and I was speaking to a variety of the association members, the services associations. Just by way of reminder is that we will be stretching out to recognize such things as victory in Japan. If we have the reserves and we have the assets for it, and also we've got victory in Europe coming up next year. So this I would anticipate will be something which will be discussed by the civic working group and put to the Trustees to vote on. But I'm very keen to recognize the service of armed forces in this period whereby there are a variety of anniversaries coming up as we saw in the 80th anniversary of D-Day. Please, our own re-clock. There's just one point about the earlier question about the use of reserves. There can only be used for charter trustee purposes. So there is a big fence around the charter trust and precept. So there couldn't be used for Council services, but there could be used for other things that the Trust wants to do. Any further questions or debate? Councillor Trent, please. Yeah, it's just a question about use of reserves because I know that in pull charter Trustees, we introduced a grant giving scheme, having done quite a bit of research as to how it would operate. That will eat into the underspend, a fair bit if people actually make bids against it. And I'm kind of wondering where the, because I know it has to be in support of the predictions of the town and the morality, and I'm kind of wondering whether there would be a benefit in research is to exactly what events such things could support. So I've got a community event, which at the moment is under-financed. This is albeit in pull, but it's under-financed, why about £7,000? But I don't, and there's a similar event in the form of that probably isn't under-financed, but I'm kind of wondering whether there is scope within the rules that govern charter Trustees to help out some of these things which have a direct effect on individual communities. You know, because I'm, you know, I'm keen for things to happen for people and providing it something that the mayor is part of attends and so on. You know, I kind of think, you know, do we perhaps need to sort of relax a definition enough to be able to support individual events that benefit one or the other of the charter Trust areas. Yeah, that makes sense. It does cancel a trend, and I certainly believe that it should be explored. But if I could call upon the honorary clerk or perhaps Mr. Filmer to sort of say what sort of scope, but it might well be that if there is scope, then it's something that the civic working group could take into consideration. Well, yes, yes. When we looked at that scheme for poll, I'm sure which is probably better versed in terms of the rules, but it can only be used to support the historic form of events that pre-existed. But it's on a case by case basis. I think it's part of the civic work group or a charter. Do you want to bring it forward? It could be looked at, and, and whether it would be a feasible ground, et cetera. If possible, I, I will use an example, and I don't know how it's set up for the one that takes place in Bournemouth in Westtown, but I'm aware that the, what they call it, it's the arts by the sea event. They've got one in Bournemouth, one in Paul planned. The one in Paul is short by about £7,000 for the cost of actually putting it on. I don't know what the situation is in the one that's happening in Bournemouth in the West House side. It doesn't actually support a tradition, but it very much supports the relative community, which is why I'm sort of interested in where the definition begins and ends, because, to me, if the charter trustees have got a balance. I'm spent actually been able to support things which are actually benefiting the separate towns and the communities within the towns. But, you know, there is this problem that they are traditional historical events there's something which is, you know, what being. Thank you very much, Councillor TRENT. I think the way to actually deal with this one is I would encourage you to share your ideas with the honoree clerk and copiers in, and then we can look at the scope of such things within the civic working group. And if I could call upon the honoree clerk to ensure that that's added to the work plan, but a rely on you, Councillor TRENT, to use examples such as arts by the sea for that sort of scope. I'm getting the pressure from Mr Fomer that it can't go cross border, but it may well be, and also I'm getting the impression that it might not be that unless it was already established in the borough days, or the respective boroughs, that it might not be possible. But I think what it satisfies you if we ask you to write your idea to the honoree clerk and then the civic working group can report on that back to the Charter Trustees. Councillor interjecting. Yeah, just one more question on that just to check my understanding. So before the next budget round about December, there's going to be workshops on this. We're obviously going to be wanting to look to whether or not to decrease the precept or to spend. These excess reserves somehow. As part of that, could we have some sort of workshop, or training session to talk us through what isn't isn't allowed. It seems to me exactly further further to Councillor TRENT's point. There's obviously plenty of things in the community that we might want to consider. It would be helpful to know what isn't isn't on the table. And I'm also thinking about things in the BCP budget that we might want to, to bring to pay for out of these reserves. If we think that, you know, if there's, if there's something needs to be closed or sold, and we think that that is against the interest of what are the options there for using some of these reserves for that. I don't have a specific example in mind, but I'm thinking something small, like a swimming pool that, where there might be a case for these reserves being being re-peps for that. It would just be helpful ahead of those discussions to know what isn't isn't on the table. So some sort of session would be really helpful. I think, Councillor Connolly, that I'm getting nods from the honorary clerk here that's possible that it can be explored. I would welcome a working group, but obviously working groups are as good as the participation of the judge trustees that actually attend them to give us something reasonable for all the trustees to actually consider prior to their budget setting for next year. If I could just pass this over to the honorary clerk. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, happy to consider that. Well, we're sort of more of a workshop than training. I guess it's more of a workshop set up what the parameters are. We could either do that for the working group or for all the charge trustees, maybe hold it as an open meeting. I think that might help in terms of the understanding of what the charge trustees are, what the limits are, where those limits can be pushed. And as you say, I think what events previously existed because the wording is about upholding the civic traditions. That doesn't necessarily mean it was an event that happened last year, you could look at a wider interpretation of those civic traditions. So let's have a look at that and try and work that through the group. I could, um, word that to a proposal or a motion to this group here. So that we can have a vote on the judge justice attending a chart just these work groups so that you can feed in for your wards. On actually grants the side of things. Can you help me out with the wording for that particular proposal because I'd like to put it to the vote of this meeting of the charge trustees here. Thank you. Very quickly. Paul Charles trustees have adopted a grant system. Rising on the back to that for many years, Paul Borough Council did financially assist the 20 association, Paul is twin, but she're born with his twin, but two locations. I can't see any grant was given to twin in Bulmas. So, two, two suggestions. It could be that the working party could look at the actual adopted grant scheme that Paul is using, because the offices could obviously double up on that they could use the same system for Bulmas. And also, twinning in Bulmas, you know, that is promoting the civic link between the two separate locations and it's something which is promoting. You know, we financially assisted because I'm the chair of the 20 association visit over the last weekend. Otherwise wouldn't have happened, but it was definitely promoting Paul. Thank you. Thank you so much. Councillor Andrews, I've spent certainly that the charge trustees can learn from one another and take the best of, you know, one, one from the other. But what I'm looking for and what's happening at the moment is just some wording so that we could put together a charge justice working group to explore that. Just a moment, Councillor Trent, Councillor Bartlett at the back. Would you, would you come forward to share somebody's speaker for microphone, please. I was going to suggest, Mr. Mayor, that, you know, before we start thinking about how much of the reserve to dispense off on grounds, et cetera. Do you actually consider what expenditure may be coming in the, in the future, because it may be, I think, give away. And for example, I know that cars getting pretty ancient, and maybe we should be thinking about, you know, investing in a new car. Is there anything else that might be coming up with a big cost coming up? So, I just think we need to be a little bit cautious. Let's look at what we need to spend out before we decide what we can give away. Thank you. Councillor Bartlett, that's very valuable input, and I'm sure that the working group would take that into consideration working with our financial responsible officer as regards what unexpected may will be coming down the bike. But I don't see that any reason not to explore the possibility of a grant within the, within the, within the covenant of the charter trustees. Councillor Trent. Yeah, if I can come together a proposal that a workshop is arranged for the charter trustees of both former Tham Paul to explore the limits and regulations that apply to the activities that the charter trust to see whether we can do more to benefit. The constituent towns. I very much appreciate that, but the honoree Clark, Councillor Trent, has got a little wording together. That'll be better than what I was coupled together. It was somewhat narrow. I was a little bit concerned for learning from what the charter trustees experiences are for the grant, but staying within the boundaries of the charter trustees form which you sit in both camps. I have that advantage of bringing that knowledge to, to that working group. So what I'm looking for is a proposal for that particular working group. Can I just have a little look at the wording of the honoree Clark, and then maybe move it from the chair and I'll seek a seconder. I hope that the honoree Clark has come through. So moving from the chair, that the charter trustees agreed to hold a workshop to consider wider options for the use of revenue and reserves fund. In support of community events and facilities across the ball, and to consider options to work with neighboring charter trustees and parachute or town councils. Would that be agreeable if I had a second, please. So if I could just put it to the meeting, please. So that the charter trustees agreed to hold a workshop to consider wider options of the use of revenue and reserves fund in support of community events and facilities across the ball, and to consider options to work with neighboring charter trustees and parish and town councils. And I move that, and have a show of hands, please. Any dissension. Any abstentions. Thank you so much that has carried. Congratulations or a clear issues. Any further debate on this particular business item. Can you just summarize the report. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. That was, I think it was a useful discussion, particularly around setting next year's budget. So we'd encourage all charter trustees to attend that workshop is possible, but this report is just to note, Mr. Mayor, that's all right. Thank you. So can I be moved that the report is so noted. Show of hands, please. Any dissension. That is carried moving on to business item for the annual government statement, 202324 and statement of accounts for 2324. I call upon Mr. film up to the responsible financial officer to present from the report. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So this is the annual governance and accountability return, which, if approved tonight and signed by the clerk and the chair will be on the charter of his website by tomorrow. And then the public inspection notice will go on, they're live. So members of the public can inspect the documents in regards to the annual governance and accountability return. It basically summarizes the previous two agenda items that we've, we've noted. The one piece just to highlight, which is in regards to the statement of accounts, which is on the second to last page of the a car. It sets out all the out turn figures that were as part of the outcome report, but the new figure that we haven't mentioned is the value of the fixed assets or the regalia of the trust trustees and form of. And that is 646,000, and that is a reflection of the latest insurance valuation of those assets hasn't been done for a couple of years. So it's due, but that value, you wouldn't have seen it previous to this sign of this report. So I'll stop there, Mr Mayor. Happy taking any questions. Thank you very much, Mr Fulma. Any questions or debate or on business item number four. Councillor Canada. Just ask how that figures been arrived out. If you haven't done unless it's evaluation. Mr Fulma. Through you, Mr Mayor, that's the insurance cover. So if God forbid, all those assets were burned or destroyed, that would be the value of the insurance claim. So that's satisfying Mr is who are you, Councillor Canada. It doesn't represent the value. It's purely an arithmetical figures in it for the purposes of insurance doesn't actually value the assets. Mr Fulma. I think I can see what you're getting at such as these. The issue with the regalia is what we refer to as a heritage asset, which similar to things like statues or very historic buildings. They're very hard to value. From a risk perspective, which is the way in which assets are valued. The valuation from the insurance is the most sensible value for those assets by the external auditors. And this agar is externally audited. So that gives you some insurance. They will look at that insurance valuation and sign off on that basis. Councillor Canada. Thank you. Just a quick question around the actual the budget and the actuals. Some of them are exactly the same as what we budgeted for, which is incredible. And then the majority of them are under, but there is one that stands out as. I mean, I know it's small, small things in the scheme of the council's budget, but printing in photocopying. So we estimated 50 and the actual was 284. Do we have any idea why it went up? It's that much. Would you be best to answer that, Mr Fulma? For you, Chair, I can quickly check the spend. But in regards to your first point, the vast majority of the spend for the trustees is fixed. It's a charge between the council and the charge trustees to separate legal entities. And that's what we set up as part of the budget. And then that's what we even voice the charge trustees based on. I forget the percentage it does say in the report, but it's at least 60, 70% of all of the budget is fixed. It's always budget actuals match the same in most most cases. In regards to that printing and photocopying. I've got a feeling there was some invites from memory. I'm happy. Perhaps if I could just check and would that be more sensible? Probably. Yes, please. It's just, you know, for, for everyone here. I think we're going to do. It's one of the deficiencies that coming in as a new mayor that I've identified myself is that we don't commit to paper. In the digital world, there seems to be a mad rush to have everything is there some debate, which we need to be aware of. Just going back to my point, in the digital world, we seem to be frosting towards. Electronic confirmation and everything being held in the cloud and nothing committed to paper. Now, from my perspective, then it doesn't uphold the traditions and history of the charge trustees and the mayor to actually not commit to paper for certain invites. And so on and so forth. So it may well be that in the coming budget, that figure will actually go up for printing and stationary simply because I believe that there is a need for that to go forward. But obviously that budget would go before the charge trustees to actually have confirmation. Does that help? Absolutely. Thank you. But it doesn't actually, because for me, it's the, it's the level of increase. I mean, if we know what it was supposed for, that's great. And all it's only a small amount. I mean, if we budgeted for £3,000 and we spent £3,500, I'd want to know. And if we budgeted for a hundred and we spent 300, I'd still want to know why the difference and that's what I'm asking. Sorry, I couldn't add value to the accounts. I think Mr Fuhlman now has a more accurate pounds and pence answer for you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Sorry, I had to double check the accounts in terms of what that spend was so 263 pounds was spent on booklets for the Remembrance Sunday. So there was a number of a five booklets that were that were ordered from the repo graphics team here at the council and it was charged to the, the chance trustees. So the reproduction of booklets wasn't budgeted for in the original budget estimates. Is that what you're saying? I'd like to sort of use the phrase, Robbie, Peter, the PayPal, but if you look at the spreadsheet as a whole, as regards to deficit elsewhere, and that might well be the reason why, but as a valid point, which you bring. But to my understanding, spreadsheets, a budget is precisely that. It is an estimate. Sometimes it go over and sometimes it'll go under. But Mr Fuhlman, could you help out? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So in the former budget for 2324, there is a budget for Remembrance Sunday, which was 10,000 pounds. But I think what's happened is because the charges come from the council. It's been charged as a printing charge that we can for as a council and then gone to the justice. It should really be sat on the Remembrance Sunday, Sunday line in terms of the outcome position. Thank you. If it also helps the honorary clerk is taken to brought my attention off the budget for Remembrance Sunday, which was 10,000. But the actual spend that was booked on to the budget was 9,000 and 78 pounds. So I'll leave it to you to make the rent mental arithmetic. How many pounds pennies and shillings that we might be short on the actual budget. Thank you. Any other questions or debate on item four. Will I ask for a mover from the choice trustees, Councillor Williams. I fully move to adopt. And a seconder, please. Councillor Beasley. Thank you very much. Happy second, Mr. Mayor. I would be so moved. Can we have a show of hands, please. Any dissension. That is carried. That now concludes the meeting. But before I formally declare the meeting actually closed, I just once again, like the same, each and every charge trustee that came here at short notice so that we could stay within the legislation and meet the timetable. I do understand that all of you are somewhat busy elsewhere with other national events that are unfolding as we speak. But once again, I'm very pleased to see such a turnout and also such an active role by members, and they actually have the business itself. So, with no further ado, I formally declare this meeting closed. Thank you.