Transcript

Good morning, everyone. This is a meeting of the Licences Act 2003 subcommittee of the London Bar of Newham, New premises license application for Chandos Community Association. That's Colgrave Road E15 1DZ. Please note that this meeting recording will be available on the meeting on the council's YouTube channel. In accordance with members' code of conduct, the three councils on the committee today are required to declare any relevant interests on any matter being considered at this meeting. I have nothing to declare, I have nothing to declare. I'll now move into introductions. My name is Councillor Tony Wilson. I represent Becton Ward and I'll be chairing this meeting throughout. Good morning. I'm Councillor Jane Lovehouse representing Plaster South. I'm Councillor Winston Vaughan representing Borski South Ward. Thank you. Steve Jackson licensing team chair. Thank you. Now I'll move on to the members. Would you like to introduce yourself, please? You're going to have to talk much louder. Sorry, I'm Shane Plasterfield, I'm licensing staff. Thank you. Kim McConnell, Metropolitan Police Licensing. Thank you very much. Would you like to introduce yourself? Are you just observers? You're observers today. Thank you. Now, let's work our way through. Would you like to introduce yourself? Hi, I'm Jonathan Gillett. I live on Colgrave Road. I've come on behalf of a number of local community members. Okay. My name is Nasir Uddin. I live on, again, it's very noisy outside. My name is Nasir Uddin. I live on Colgrave Road. I'm also a member that works in the nursery and come on behalf of parents as well. Thank you. Will you be speaking today? Yes. Yes. Okay. Would you like to introduce yourself? My name is Shahidha and I work in a nursery. I'm a nursery manager. All right. Okay. Will you be speaking today? You don't have to. No, no, no. I haven't got the letter. I don't know whether I would be able to talk or not. But you made representation. Lovely. Okay. Let's move on. I'm Shane Faulkner. I help out at Chandel Centre. I'm one of the volunteers that help Anita and John with the club. Right. Okay. Did you make representation today? Yes, I did. Also, I spoke at the last one we had and I'm just here to help. Right. Okay. Thank you. My name is John Church. I'm a member of the committee on the Chandel Centre. Thank you. I'm Anita Follman. I'm fine for the licence. Hello, Anita. Pleased to meet you again. Would you like to introduce yourself? Yes, my name is Steve Faulkner. I'm a member of the club and I work at the Chandel Centre. Thank you. I help out with volunteering as we went through this. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Christine. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, sorry, could you repeat your surname? Would you like to spell that for me, please? Thank you, everyone. Now, I'm going to briefly run through the procedure of this meeting. The licensing case officer will present their report, then move to the representations from the responsible authorities. For example, the police tracing standards environmental health. Today, we have representations from three residents. Members can seek clarification, so can the applicant or their representative on any matters. We have representation from the commercial environmental health team, the council licensing enforcement team, the metropolitan police licensing team, two councillors and some residents. The license holder then will present their case or in your case, the applicant. Finally, members may pass a resolution to deliberating, exclude the press and public, including the parties and their representatives. The clerk and the legal advisor will remain with the members to provide advice on procedure and law. When the decision has been reached, the meeting will reconvene and the decision of the subcommittee will be announced in public. Four written copies of the decision sent to the applicant or license holder, responsible authorities and interested parties, usually within five working days. Parties who have taken part in the hearing may appeal against the decision to the magistrates court within 21 days. As this is an administrative hearing under the 2003 act, we are not trained lawyers, so rely on legal advice from our legal department, today represented by some of it. Thank you. I'd also like to inform all parties that we base our decision on written and oral submissions. The clerk will take minutes of the meeting. Would you like to introduce yourself? Thank you. If anyone in the chamber wishes to ask a question during the meeting, I ask them to raise their hands and wait to be invited to speak. I would ask that all mobile phones are silenced or switched off. So I'm going to pass over now to the case officer, but please can everyone check their phones so we have order. I don't want to hear any jingles and wringles and stuff. All right. Steve. Thank you, chair. The members of the licensing subcommittee are asked to here determine a new application for a premise license for Chandos Community Association, Colgrave Road, E15, 1Z. The applicant is an Anita Foreman and any valid representations that have been made. An application for a new premises license was received by the Licensing Authority on the 30th of July, 2024. This was advertised at the premises and in the local newspaper. A copy of the application is attached to Appendix A. The application is for the following. Supply of alcohol on the premises, Monday to Thursday, 1900 hours to 2300 hours. Friday, 1900 hours to midnight. Saturday, 1400 hours to midnight, and Sunday, 1200 hours to 2230 hours. Also listed is recorded music indoors, Monday to Thursday, basically the same times as above, and the opening times are the same as well there, chair. The commercial environmental health team have made representation against the application on the grounds of prevention of public nuisance. A copy of their letter is attached to Appendix B. The council's licensing enforcement team have made representation against the application as a responsible authority on the grounds of crime disorder, prevention of public nuisance, protection of children from harm. A copy of their letter is attached to Appendix C. The Metropolitan Police licensing team have made representation against the application as a responsible authority on the grounds of crime disorder, prevention of public nuisance. A copy of their letter is attached to Appendix D. Councillors have made representation against the application on the licensed objective of crime disorder, prevention of public nuisance, and the protection from harm. A copy of their letters are attached and the applicant's responses are attached to Appendix E. Residents have made representation against the application on the grounds of crime disorder, prevention of public nuisance, and protection of children from harm. A copy of their letters and the applicant's responses to some of these are attached to Appendix F. Residents have also supported the application. These are attached to Appendix G. Where the licensing authority decides to impose conditions on a license whether in the CIZ or not, such conditions must be appropriate and proportionate for the promotion of the license objectives. Conditions should be clear and unequivocal. The Secretary of State has issued guidance to the licensing authorities which they must have regard in carrying out their licensing functions. Members of the subcommittee should note that copies of these guidance are available at meetings of the subcommittee. Alternatively, copies can be obtained directly from the committee clerk. Licensing authorities may only depart from the guidance if they have good reasons to do so. These premises do not fall within a CIZ. The premises previously held a club license first issued on the 3rd of March 2006. This is attached to Appendix H. This club license was registered at Chandos Centre Social Club Limited. This was a registered charity organization until they were removed from the charity register on the 15th of May 2023. The license was lapsed in January 2024. A new premises license application was refused on the 30th April 2024 by the Licensing Subcommittee. A copy of the decision letter is attached to Appendix I. Some discussions have been taking place between the applicant and responsible authorities. Suggested conditions were proposed by the applicant and they are highlighted in the attached document attached to Appendix I. A plan on the premises is attached to Appendix J and the area map Street View is attached to Appendix K. The members of the Licensing Subcommittee are asked to hear the application, representations of the license holder, any valid representations received from responsible authorities and determine the application. Additional to that, Chair, there's been a few supplementaries, one of which is the additional history regarding the premises relating around temporary event lotuses and it's listed there on page, I've got it listed as page three on my document. There's three temporary events that did take place at the premises. Go through the dates, I can do that now as well. I can wait for questions later, it's entirely up to you. I know, I don't want to go through that now but I thought there had been more. There's also responses from two local counties that have extended on to their letters of rep which are, they've had discussions with the applicant and they've noted their correspondence with them in terms of discussions they had around the actual centre and I'm sure the applicant will be able to go into a bit more detail but that information is on them supplementaries and the applicant also has listed overview of what the premises is doing and that's structured out on that document that's in front of you on that supplementary as well. Right, okay. When I meant more, I meant more about 10s, was there any further 10s? No, the 10s that have come to you that we've got listed at the premises that we've had up to the hearing date has been on Sunday 11th of August 2024, Friday the 30th of August 2024 and Sunday the 8th of September 2024 and they're listed all the times that they've got there which are similar to the application that they've applied for as well. Okay, would you like to start, Jane? Yes, just to ask about the 10s, did those go through smoothly? Were there any issues relating to any of them? From our information that I've got from licensing team, obviously the noise and nuisance officer might be the best person to ask, on Sunday 11th of August we did receive one complaint in relation to the karaoke event that took place for the other events we've had no other complaints at all. Do we know if it was a noise one or alcohol related one? It was related around noise, I believe it is actually made reference to in one of the representations today which I believe is here today. Have you got any questions for the case officer? Steve, do we know if Miss Foreman has received her license from London Barve Newman? If she received her alcohol license from London Barve Newman. So who? Anita. Oh, you mean personal license? I'll have to check that on the application. Can I come back to you? Yeah, you can. In the meantime, can you bring up a picture of the premises for me please? So this is outside the main gates for the Chandler Centre, obviously as you can see the busy Angel's Day nursery is advertised there as well. As you go through the car park the centre is just at the back there, go through the doors and that leads into obviously the main building and I can show you. Apologies, this system is so slow today. Seem to like PDF documents today for some reason. The apologies chair, it doesn't seem to be wanting to open any larger than that so that's the plan and I do apologise but that is in the actual agenda, Pat. It's a big reference to that line in there. Okay, so we gather it's a highly residential area that the premises sit in. Yes, I'll try and bring that picture back up. Yep, obviously the road here is all residential, it leads all the way down to the bottom of Cold Road Road and if you go right round into Dunlow Road it does lead to the back of the centre as well which you can see here. It's going to allow me to go down that road. Well yes, the back of the centre is there as well but I'm sorry but IT is just not having it today. Yes, there is quite a built-up area around the actual centre. Right and there's no property on top of the centre, is there? I read something about the Miles or the MILES club or Mills Apartments or something. There's nothing above the community centre. There's nothing above, there's no one that lives above the centre. Just the community centre. Okay, on the actual site map that I was looking at, could you tell me where it's marked off as the licenseable areas? The licenseable areas, if I can pull that up, they've got the, it's the hall area, there's a bar area. Sorry, continue. There's a bar area that's obviously actually leading on the left hand side. You walk through to the main bar area. There's a sort of like a... I can see youth hall and large hall. And the ones that are blacked out, it's very hard to read on my screen here, but if it's the main hall area and there's a bar and as you can just see in between where it's graded out in black at the top, you'll see it says bar. That's where I believe the main bar area is and the other area is just the main function hall, which they obviously plan to use. And obviously, if there's any other problems, then obviously I'm sure. You're saying this whole area is... Was you able to find the question asked if her personal license was issued by the London Parthenon? Well, I haven't. Sorry, I was just doing that. Sorry, just to confirm as well, just that I was handed today was the, it looks like a contract agreement between Anita Foreman and the Chandler Centre. Could you speak up, Steve? It's a contract agreement that was handed to me today. It's a contract agreement between Anita Foreman and the Chandler Centre. And I can pass that around. It's basically in terms of agreement, I used the bar area and lounge seating area, which was highlighted, used the main hall and also says the duration of the contract agreement, which has been signed and dated. I don't know if all parties want to... Just as a matter of law, given that it's been handed in today, technically speaking, all parties have to consent of what is to be put in the papers today. So once you've read this, we can pass the responsible authorities, whether they're happy for this to be admitted into today's hearing, and of course, the residents, and if they need five minutes to just review this. I'm sure it'll be fine. Yes. Oh, thank you. Thank you. [inaudible] Well, personally, apologies, chair. So I had to pass the applicant because we're having IT issues, can't pull that back. Anita's just confirmed that her personal licence is from the London Borough Room. Lovely. Thank you. And when was that, Anita, very quickly? So coming up two years ago. Okay. All right, I'll leave that there. Sorry. Colin, would you like to share this with the nursery and Mr Jella, please? Oh, and Steve, my last question. Could you tell me when the additional conditions which comes in on, yes, when's the date that's coming, when was that submitted into the agenda, into your team? That's page 143. Unfortunately, chair, with this IT problem. I'm afraid I can't access anything. I do apologise. Okay, Anita, could you just confirm on page 143 of your agenda, 143 of your agenda? Have you not got an agenda? I can't answer that question. I've got here, it was listed on our system on the 2nd of September. And when was the initial application? That was 30th of July, sorry. 30th of July, thank you. Yeah, once everybody's had an opportunity to, we can ask them over there, happy to be admitted into those pages. I don't know if they need any additional time. It might be kind of move this along because you'll have time to say yes or no if you wish to receive or reject. Anyone at that? All together, okay. Are you having this to be considered as part of the application? I have one question on it, on the lease agreement, it says only a Friday for license and new activities where they've applied for license and every other day, so I don't know how that would work. Sorry, what was that? Well, on the lease agreement, it says only license for activities on a Friday night. That's also. No, it says license for activities on the new lease agreement, but you're going to be performing the license for activities every day, so I don't know how that would... We won't be there every day. No, you're applying for a license for everything. Yeah, we are, yeah. On your lease agreement, it says only Friday, so I don't know how that would sit. I can't, I've got no glasses. Yes, so they can, it says they're going to get the ball. No, not, that's usually the ball. That's on Friday, once a month. I shouldn't say anything, sorry. Don't say about that. Once a month, on a Friday, that's the lease agreement. But it's a week. I mean, I'll speak to Uma, but I know that's the lease agreement doesn't impact on the license. No, it's not. License Act 2003. It should have been. There's a lease agreement, they'll be reaching the lease agreement if they perform any other. They'll have a license when they perform any other time. But the lease... They aren't reaching the license on Monday, they're reaching the lease agreement, so I'll just... One moment, I'll just answer that, because I've just read it to myself. The one you're on about with Friday, there, that's the main hall. That's not the actual land bar, because it's done it in two different sections. Wow. If you look at that, Robert, that's the lounge bar. Usaburgh area. That one's the main hall. That's when we had functions and stuff on, which is on the weekends. In the main hall, they normally have cells and stuff like that. Have we got clarity, because I'm still kind of confused. Mr Hunt raises a valid point, and he explains this point. In respect of the application today, your application... your decision wouldn't be contingent on that lease, in terms of those lease. However, you will note that there is, it appears to be some sort of discrepancy. Perhaps when we hear from the applicant, they can explain what it means further, and then you can decide in your deliberations whether it impacts the licensing objectives or not. But strictly speaking, they're independent. But of course, you take that into account. Thank you very much. And also, I just know it's been the use of the bar here. It's only Wednesday to Sunday as well. Oh, right. Can I just make a... John. Yeah, Mr John Church. John. John. Right, okay. Can I just be clear, is the lease agreement between the two of you? It was drawn up in the office with Carol and Anita, yes. Right, so that's your signature on there with Anita? Anita, yeah. That's... But this one? One at the bottom should be Carol Flanagan. Yes, Carol Flanagan. Yeah. Right, so it's not between the two of you? Not me, no. I'm on the committee at the chandelier, the original committee. All right, okay. I'm going to hold on to this now. So is everyone in agreeance that this can be accepted into the papers? Wonderful, so let's just move on. You answered my question, and the additional appendices I won. We've got back there. Okay, so do you have any questions for Steve? Any further questions? How many days is the premises carried out for private use? Well, that would have to be a question to the applicant, yeah. There's no information on the application to state whether they're going to do that or run events themselves. That is a question that would be asked. I have the opportunity to ask that when it comes to the... Sorry, I do have one question, just for clarity, really. In terms of the leaseholder, I just confirm, is the leaseholder here today? So you are the leaseholder of the room? Yes. So I just want to make that clear. I don't think that was clear when we just had a session. Okay, so we'll go back on that when we come to them. Okay, any questions for Steve? Mr. Gellert, any questions, Steve, on the report he's just read out? I don't have any questions. I mean, I presume I'll have an opportunity to speak, yeah. Great. Any questions for the case officer? Right, okay, let's move on. So we will now go to Ian McConnell. First, a premises license for the license and application for the up-premises commercial in 2014, making a reauthorization of the effect of this application for the license and application for the license and application for the public nuisance. But what the license application is for, the premises is a bit of a bar of residential, so it's not an issue from the nearest reason, consequently, the ambient noise levels. So the nearest residential premises is Miles Lodge. Not handling the recent complaints about noise in this community centre, however, we do have record complaints concerning about music, shouting when this premises has been used at previous liquor events. In addition, the licensing team received the complaints, there was a complaint of noise, following a temporary event at the premises last year. The large hall has single-glazed windows, which are big city bars. There is an outside area. The applicant has advised the garden area will be closed at 11pm, with the music being turned down at 11pm. The hall does have an older noise limiter, although it's not clear whether this is still functional and whether it requires a replacement. It should be good in any case that the license is granted, which can reject the setting, and picks our own seals once the suitable level has been set. Our area, again, single-glazed, has a small outside area that's attached. The area is overlooked by the upper floors of Miles Lodge. The applicant intends to prevent public nuisance from the friction of the city hall measures during events finished at a reasonable time, providing ample parking, and managing crowd control to minimise any disturbance surrounding the community. What our concerns are, noise breakout, particularly from the main halls, where they're intended to have events. There is a door that goes to the outside area, which they have said they'll close. That is a fire escape door, so they need to provide a bit more information on how they're going to make sure that it's kept closed. And also the bar area has an outside area, which again is Miles Lodge, so that area is used late at night. People out there can cause nuisance to do the best that's there. And the other issue is, even if they close the outside areas, they're presumably going to allow people to smoke where they can smoke, and how they're going to control that to make sure that people don't cause the nuisance, and how they're going to make sure that noise from people leaving the centre, and events finish, aren't going to cause a nuisance. I'll be looking through some of the representations. Thank you Ian. Council for any questions? Yes, if you could just expand a little bit on the paragraph. We have not had any recent complaints, but is there records of complaints and so on? I just wondered if you could expand on that at all. The last complaint was in May 2019, it was quite a long time ago, 11/13. That was loud music. We had complaints about loud music and shouting in 2015, 2014. So there were not huge numbers of complaints, but there were complaints. Spaced out as it were. Right, thank you. When was the last time you visited the premise of the... That would have probably been during the first application. Coincidentally, we had another complaint about noise in the area, which we were trying to trace. To be clear, it had nothing to do with this premises. We weren't able to show what to do with them or to another premises in the area. So the last visitation was in April? Yes, in April, the first application. Okay, so was you able to gain access? Lovely, okay. So from the last time you saw the premises to this time, could you tell me what alterations have been done since the last hearing? I'm sure of alterations. Single glazed windows. We were looking at the noise limiter. We were looking at breakout spots and what have you. Noise limiter hasn't been replaced. So what I'm trying to say is from the time you saw it in April, did it look exactly the same? No alterations? I don't know what alterations they may have made. I may have been less integral, but not so fast. Right, so I'm still not getting it. Does it look the same as it did before? Right, okay, thank you. So whilst you were there, you didn't have the opportunity to set or look at the noise limiter. So as far as you're concerned, again, that's in the same condition. Now you had concerns with regards to the fire laws and outside areas and smoke alarms. Now considering we've had complaints about noise breakouts in the past recently, and I take it there's no CCD-3 cameras that have been put up. Right, okay, so just go over again your concerns with regards to the two doors. One was the fire door and one was the...? So the bar area and the main hall both have outside areas. I don't know whether the bar, the bar area, I don't think that's the fire escape, but the outside, the door to the outside area for the main hall is the escape door. So it cannot be locked as left open in case of fire to allow people to open. So there is, as well as it being single glazed, so you know they need to control the noise, so it's not a nuisance. When the door is open, see that's going to allow us to break out. When the door is open late at night, that's potentially an issue. If there were too many people, the outside area on the other side, residents in Miles Lodge are just quite close. That was the name of Miles Lodge, yeah, okay. And you set that back on to one of the outside spaces? Behind Miles Lodge there's a car park and some carriages and then the outside area for the bar. Right, okay, are there any questions for the environmental team? Anyone want to ask a question? I think last time we talked about maybe a ventilation system or air conditioning or something that would allow them to keep the windows closed because we were concerned that if it got too hot in the summer at an event we'd need to open all the doors. Is that a point that still stands? Yeah, that would make a difference if they had air conditioning. That would mean that when it does get very particularly hot, they wouldn't be to open doors. Any other questions? Okay, just before we continue, I forgot about the lady that asked for the link. Is she? She's online, yes. She's online. Can she hear us? I believe so, yes. I'm sorry we forgot to ask you to introduce yourself. It's Yvonne. Yvonne? Sorry, yes, hello. Yes, I'm Yvonne. I attend Thomas Hughes Centre for events. So what question would you ask me particularly? No, I just looked at you to introduce yourself because I actually forgot that you were there. You said silence. Oh right, okay. All right, so I'm Yvonne. I run a school of dance and I've been using the centre for a number of years, firstly with the community centre in Stratford and I came and it was very kind to invite me to use the shandles which I've been using for a number of months now. Wonderful. Yeah, and we run events in the community to try and get community engagement and participation within the centre. We all have an opportunity, Yvonne, to go through all that a little bit later on. Okay sure, thank you. But thank you. Right, Steve, what was you saying? So we've got the map back up. Yeah, so the map's up here, yeah. So the dark black line that goes around the premises is all licensed for? Yeah, I believe this is all part of the hall, but the main hall that they're referring to in their location is this one here. Right. And the bar area... Takes it to the outside space? I believe it's in the far corner down here. Right. Could you tell me if that outside space has anything to do with the nursery? Not to my knowledge, that would be a question to the applicant. Okay. Even the lease holder would be a good question. Yeah, okay. And the bar area here is in the middle. Right. At the counter of the bar, you can... Wait, I'm just reading it from the... Oh, sorry. Well, has the plan been changed? Is that not how it is at the moment? Oh no, it's not, sorry. That's the hall, yeah. Got it right, yeah. This is the lounge area here. Oh yeah, sorry, yes, sorry. And then obviously, I'll leave this on the screen so when it comes to the applicant's term, if you wish to work about that. Thank you, sorry. No, that's okay. Right. So can you show me where that fire door is, please, Ian? So the one at the bottom, so you've got the large hall, it's along that line there. I think it's about where the cursor is there. Right. And the outside area, I think, is that blacked out area alongside it. And is this what is supposed to be what, the smoke garden or the... An outside area. What do you use that space for, Anita? Just the people who go out and the people smoke, they go around the side. They don't go outside. They've got a side bit, but... And we tend to go there if they want to smoke. Right, okay. Shut the door. Pick the door shut. And... I just want to say, where is Miles Lodge in relation to the... I don't know that. So that black area is the top? Yeah. The top. So I think that's the garages. Yeah. And then above that, there's a car park area, and Miles Lodge is parallel with that. Thank you. And where is the secondary door that leads out to the other outdoor space? Yeah, that's from the lounge bar area there. So, yeah, because it leads into a delivery yard. If you see a door here, the delivery yard is there. So, yeah, this is the outside area. The door... So I'll take it the play area for the nursery is this side, on the left? The playroom is here, but unless that's changed on this plan, the nursery might be able to confirm that. But the play area at the back is, I believe, this area down here. Okay. Show me where the toilets are, please. Toilets shown on here are... there's a female toilet here, I believe, and a male toilet next to it there. Okay. And whilst we're on this plan, does the children use these toilets as well? Yes, they do, but it's shut during the day? It's shut during the day? They have... can you explain? The bar area is not open during the day when the nursery's working. The toilets there are so literally... They have so-and-so toilets... ...control the toilets... ...until the evening... ...until they close, like they use... they have the ladies one that they use for the little ones for the... during the day while they're open. Yes. And then when we're there, we take over them in the evening after they've left. Thank you. All right. And so, it does look like it's a disabled toilet there as well, which... Yeah. Wonderful. Okay. And my last question is, where is the car park? Car park is here. As the main... that picture I showed earlier as you're walking... Yes. ...there's a big car park space here, and then leads on to the front of the building, which is approximately here. Right. That keeps it clear. Thank you. If you'd like to leave that upstairs, sure. Are there any questions? Any further questions? Yeah, we'll bring that. On a question of noise, you describe noise internally, but what about when patrons are leaving? Because that's when residents get disturbed late at night and so forth, and have noise on vehicles. Is there any control on that particular noise? Well, not that they've... not that they've put forwards, obviously, dispersal publicly, active measures to try and control the noise when people are leaving. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Let's move on. Thank you very much, Julian. Colin? Yeah. In regard to the reason that you do have the supremacy license, the child does seem to... they would like to make representations as a responsible authority on the grounds of crime, and so eventually publicly... We know what the license is for, the hours. This is the second application this year, with the first being reviewed by this committee on 30th of April, 2024. The committee set out in a decision letter, dated the 8th of May, on clear guidance why the application was reviewed. The applicant is not, in my opinion, interpreting of this decision, and the reason for the refusal. The licensing team, which have expected the premises applying for a late license for alcohol and entertainment to address the four licensing... four licensing conditions. The applicant should take note of the model conditions, the licensing policy, and take note of the reasons to refuse the first application, and adopt these in the operating schedule with this application. Notwithstanding this, the licensing committee would like the applicant to demonstrate to the committee they understand what impact opening a late night venue in a very highly residential area will have in the local community with regards to noise and dispersal amongst others. On behalf of the local council licensing authority, capacity as a responsible authority, I would like members to take this letter to the side committee. We have, obviously, since this, we did get some conditions. However, I still would have expected the applicant to take heed of what you said, what the members said in the first committee, to that board, look to the policy, because that was mentioned in the first committee and when they submitted their application to us, we would ignore a set of conditions, maybe change in some of the hours, but it didn't seem any different. So that's why the licensing authority have made representation, because they, I wouldn't say haven't taken any notice of you, but they did demonstrate in this application and it needed like the police and us to prompt to get some conditions onto the license, which in my view is wrong, because they knew what the issues were and they should have addressed them before the new application come in front of, or a bite, shall I say. Thank you. At any time has Anita or any of her committees come to the licensing team for, you need to walk them through this, because, you know, you can appreciate some people were not used to this kind of paperwork and having to input this kind of information. So at any time have they come and said, you know, walk me through this, what do I have to do, what do you suggest I do to make... They haven't come to me, but I think they've, they went to the police, is that right? They spoke to the police. So not me. I made representation, they haven't come to me. I think we may have had a conversation, but I think that might have been for the first time. Yeah, there is things I do want to ask, but I didn't... Yeah, so that was fine. So my question to you is, I've looked at the decision letter and I've looked at the decisions and you've just just said what you thought of that. If you was to just read that off the back with the use of experience, would you say that you believed that Mrs Foreman is someone who understands the four licensed objectives or, and is a responsible person to run a business like this? Well, that's a good point, Chan. I mean, I believe that if I was applying for a second license, I would have read the decision letter. I would have taken heed of what you said about the policies of it and policies we mentioned, there's model conditions in it and put that into the application. For not to do that after going through that, and it costs money to put an application in, I feel like they haven't really identified what the problems are. NSA needed police, whoever to prompt them to say, look, I think we need to put channels 25 on there. Whereas because it's only a few months previous, they should have been doing all that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And just based alone on the operating schedule and the submitted conditions, do you believe the business be an effective business in safeguarding? Well, it's difficult because obviously they're not operating at the moment. I mean, obviously the conditions that they've agreed to, if they were adhered to, then it would make the, it would go some way to alleviate our concerns. However, they've had to be prompted to do that rather than bring it to us. If they'd brought it to us, then we'd know that they would have understood why these conditions are going on there. I believe it's up to them to sort of demonstrate to you. And that's why I didn't withdraw. I saw the conditions, what they've agreed to after the application come in. But that's why I, because sometimes I would withdraw my letter of representation because they put normal conditions that I would expect on there, but because they didn't put it on after the first one, they needed prompting to do that. And I'm thinking you shouldn't really be prompted to do that. That should all come to us. And we look at that and say, okay, they've taken on board. What was discussed? I mean, you know, it was a good hearing. The first one went into detail, if I remember rightly, exactly what this needed. And the decision was a really good decision as well. Outlining some of the issues and some of your comments as well. So it was hard for me to withdraw that because of that. Thank you. Councillor Ford, any questions for Colin? Okay. Any questions at home? Right. Are there any questions for Colin regarding his report he just read out? Okay. Thank you, Colin. Thank you for that. Okay. The actual operating schedule did have some positive measures, he did mention CCCB, which demands having a robust, identical age verification system and clear safeguarding protocols. But they were just mentioned as if there was no detail shown. So I did say there was a copy of the modern conditions to the applicants and asked her to identify the ones that she thought would be relevant for that premises for a community centre. She has identified some of them such as CCCB, Champions 25 staff training. There are other ones where she's highlighted alternative versions of the same condition. And she has also selected the full CCCB condition. But when I spoke to her, she actually admitted that they haven't got CCCB and they didn't have any money to be able to afford the installable system. So I would echo what Colin said, that really the onus is on, although it's not in the CIC, as Colin said, because of the previous hearing, the onus would be on them in this instance to come up with a roadmap. It's a provision which they didn't do initially. Regarding the plan, I've noticed there's no specific demarcated area, but the applicant has said that it's going to be the lounge from the large hall. The Maryland Police State and Maple team have mentioned drug dealing involving Class A drugs with prevalence in the immediate vicinity of the premises. But the applicant insisted in their effort to temporarily eradicate it and they have continuously issued banning orders to both dealers and addicts, and the problem was recently quietened down. They also mentioned the children's play area, which is on the green opposite junction of Eden's Road in 15. This may be a concern depending on what time the play area closes. They said that this sort of area is often used in that area in the evenings after it's supposed to be closed and there would obviously be concerns about those units having access to alcohol or premises. It's not clear from the application if customers would be allowed to take their drinks from the premises to consume them outside, but given the concerns of the S&T officers, police would like the applicant to reassure the committee that they would not be able to do so and agree to have a condition to that effective attached to the license granted. Basically, we would like the applicant to attend a systemic play because she understands her responsibilities to promote the four licensing objectives and why it is necessary to attach a set of comprehensive and robust conditions appropriate for a community centre to the license granted. Thank you, Connor. What is your major concern regarding the actual community centre i.e. CCTV considering its location, its past history, drug dealers, children, noise and nuisance out the front? What would you say with regards to this and CCTV and not having the money to make this? I mean this is a basic thing that we would want. Even if it's just the cameras on the doors to identify everyone coming in, head and shoulders off of everyone coming in, that would be the basic task. I mean obviously if it did cover the internal areas that aren't going to be used for license activities, that would be very good but at a basic level just having them on the doors so that if there was an incident there, please come along and at least identify that a person had been in the premises. I mean it's not great investigation wise but it is something but preferably it should be covering the whole internal area and also the external area where people go to smoke so that again for dispersal, if there were issues with dispersal so that if there were issues with people outside, I don't know if that area is the location of that area. What for the outside smoke area or the children's play area? Which area? The area in black on the bottom left hand side, right hand side. Oh right, the outside area I think. I think that's identified as a spoken area. It was all overgrown. It's all been cleared now? Spoken area. It's a spoken area as your colleague would have said when he was asked there before I showed him around. We've cleared all that off now so all that now it's now just all been flattened and that's the area where they'll be allowed to smoke. It's away from the lodge and it's I mean it's a school at the back. It's there where the smoking area will be. So that's holding onto the paper, is it? No, no, it's at the back end of the main hall to the right of it and you've got like a school there so where the pub's open that school's not going to be open and we're going to have a smoking area there but there are signs going to be have been put up that no drinks to be taken outside. No drinks to go out the hall or lounge bar at any time so they can't even take their drinks to go to the toilet. They have to leave the drink in the bar. Yeah so yeah so as far as CZTV for some we would like it covered in that area as well because again there was sensual noise issues yeah and also you know sensual and social behaviour. Okay. I have to say the social behaviour for this postcode is love. It's been seen over a number of months. Oh okay. So have you had any call-outs regards to or recently, well they haven't been trading since April. So have you had any call-outs with regards to this drug dealing? I mean where did this information come from? And the Safe the Neighbourhood team would deal with that on a local level and as I say. Have you got any? It's less of a problem now because they've been issuing various ban notices. Yes so and they have noted that the applicant has sort of moved people away from that area. It does unfortunately solve the problem. It usually means displacement somewhere else but at least it's away from that area. Yeah so but they did know that yes the applicant has assisted me moving them away and there's no sign of when they've been there. Okay and Councillor, what else do you have to say? Regarding the removal of drinks from the actual licensed premises, the gentleman just said that they will put notices up that it cannot be moved. That's something you'd require in the conditions. Yes because we don't have it there at the moment. If your wife has granted, yes we would like that. Any questions Councillor? Yeah I think I've got the question now. Page 40 and first paragraph. And the yes okay the last sentence states they have continuously issued banning orders to both dealers and addicts but the problem has recently quietened down. Who issued that order? It refers to the police member of the team but to me it seems there is another responsibility to someone else to adhere to that last sentence. So who issues the banning orders? It would be the officers from the safety neighbourhood team. Right. The local police officers from the safety neighbourhood team for that area. Oh they deal with it? Yeah they would issue the various notices. Okay thank you very much. All right the committee has no further questions for you Connor. Has anyone got any questions for Connor? Please. Yes you spoke about the drug dealing and that near the club. Now we all know it's prevalent all over Northern and they have lots of other areas. I've got drug dealers happening behind where I live. I'm not responsible for them all I can do is report them and hope that they get moved on. So I don't see how you can hold the club responsible for any drug dealing that happens outside of their premises. Right we're not holding them responsible we are noticing that this is something that the safety neighbourhood team is prevalent but they have noted that Anissa has assisted them in moving people away so we're not holding them responsible for that. They have acted in a responsible manner. So that's not an issue it's just something that is prevalent in the area and is relevant to this because it is happening beside the premises. Thank you. You wish to ask a question? So with that I'm just saying with the help of there what just some of the things we've done what we found when we first went there. Sorry. So a question to be asked? Not really no. You'll get your opportunity in a minute don't worry don't worry. Right any further questions for the police? All right so Steve I'm coming to you. Right so the first next representation is from one of our councillors Carolyn Corbin and she's asked for her representation to be read out so would you do us the honours page 41. Thank you. I just hope my IT is working because everyone's took my copies sorry. She's got a copy then. I'll have to pull out my wire. Yeah that's easier because the IT system can do us loads. Yes you want the original page 41. Yes okay. So there is an additional one from Caroline Corbin in the supplementary though which is was that was it a reply to mainly that she couldn't come? And also Caroline Corbin and Anita did have a conversation as well which is in the documentary which says that she attended the centre discussions rather than read all that out. Is that in supplementary practice? No I've only got one here where's my other one. Okay I'll restart. I have many worrying conversations with and received many emails from my ward residents about the child loss centre and their ongoing concerns about the centre centres use in general and in particular any ongoing regular license that would allow the sale of alcohol at the child loss centre. I agree with their concerns and wish to formally object as one of their ward councillors. The previous application for a license had objections from over 70 residents and went to the licensing subcommittee committee where it was denied. I note the hours requested on the new license application have been reduced but that appears to that appears to be only the only change. Having a license premises open every evening until late and all day at the weekends will start detrimentally impacting the local residents as much as the previous application did so. I feel it should be once again denied. The hours applied for are very similar to the many pubs and bars so it appears that the applicant wants to operate a pub/bar selling alcohol from a local community centre. I don't feel the aim here is to provide a service that benefits the whole community and we feel strongly that that's a community centre should be run to benefit the whole community and not just the few who want to be able to drink alcohol there. The premises license for the sale of alcohol would also have a detrimental impact on the local area and represents a potential for public nuisance in the form of increased noise, general disturbance, litter and anti-social behaviour. The applicant Anita Foreman formally had a license at the community road centre. The premises was run as a private members drinking club. It pretty much operates like a pub or bar only it was not public or open to members of the community but just for a few local residents. and some not so local who were in the clique and paid the membership fee social membership they paid the membership i believe that's fee i think this is a whole the fire issues of the lbn owned building and had gone on for years under the radar with no inspection review or policing the community road centre is being redeveloped by newham council into a new community centre with flats on top anita and the committee they are needed to find an alternate premises john who loses the charndos centre from newham seems to have subletted to anita foreman as far as i know this is a private arrangement with which newham was not involved in or consulted on even though they are freeholder of the child center although not directly relevant to this application i feel is is indirectly relevant as it is illustration an illustration on both counts of the community centres not actually serving and benefiting the whole community are being run for profit by people who have lease agreements with newham council there's a complete lack of transparency or accountability i understand that john has had the lease to run the charndall centre for at least 20 years he may have initially lived in newham but now lives on the coast obviously possibly can be island the nursery pays substantial fees to him but again there seems to be no transparency about this and it has been sorry page curve it has been in intimidated use to the upkeep of the charndall centre which actually could really do refurbishment without the submissions of proper counts of anyone from lbn checking that it is be it's been operating in a wholly legal whole illegal manner and there's no indication of where the money is going the lack of transparency and accountability is also a concern for the local residents they feel feel rightly so that it should be their community centre offering affordable space for groups such as brownie scouts etc as it stands it is one like that as it stands it isn't one like that at all as a local councilor i've been trying to get some clarity about the leasing arrangement and i'm hopefully talking to the mayor and charlene mcclean this week to about it to understand the situation better the residents i have talked to said that anita had done little or nothing to engage with them to discuss what sort of things they they'd like them to send them to offer the community engagement she has done was to hold one open event for a few hours which allowed residents to visit the centre this seems to have been more of a box-ticking exercise than a genuine attempt to engage with the local community residents do not feel welcomed involved or included uh they also reported that is a dirty it is dirty in a bad state of repair i believe her desire for this license is to be able to sell alcohol for a profit on a daily basis and she has no interest in the concerns wishes of the local community when residents have inquired about hiring space at the channel centre they've been told that it's cash only and at the moment it's it's an expensive 80 pound an hour as a local authority granting of the license a license should be benefits the whole community in this instance i feel will be detrimental and not for the benefit of many but for the benefit of benefit of you both the community road community centre group and the channel centre have had charitable status in the past but understand both lost their charity status due to failure to submit their accounts and time some of those communities association the entity listed on the public notices for the application is not officially registered anywhere as a valid organization club or charity for the purposes of licenses yes this application is being made under false pretenses and does not give local residents confidence that the licensee has good standing reliability trustworthiness to maintain the conditions of a license to supply alcohol as is Anita's sorry as it is Anita held a number of bring your own bottle events at the channel center which residents have said they were rowdy affairs as the windows and doors were open it's been reported to me that there have been broken bottles drugs paraphernalia after events which residents themselves have cleaned up and the drunken disordered behavior of people uh people leaving um one residents told me of an occasion where she had to go and assist Anita to lock up in an evening because she was inebriated and was incapable of locking up herself residents are also concerned that granting of this license would cause a significant public nuisance due to an increase in noise traffic litter and litter in the area the centre is based on a quiet residential street which because of uh recent low traffic neighborhood scheme is not a throughfare the introduction of our active license premises will change the character of the premises and the area significantly will be lead to increase of car and foot for traffic and related disturbance late into the night residents already see a significant amount of litter in the community centre car park um it is not a well maintained or managed space for all the above reasons i do not have any confidence that Anita for one is fit to hold this license or will be benefit to the majority of the local residents and i would urge you once again to deny this application you're sincerely cancelling thank you well done thank you right um so that is to be noted um the other councilor that was meant to turn up today um councilor anovo uh she has given her privileges she's not able to make it so as they're both not here we cannot push them or ask them to submit any further evidence on their statements but i'm sure you've all read the both um have i missed anything out on that steve with regards to um well we noted the only one i've just read out there is a response to the councilor directly from anita so i don't know if you want anita or someone to or join me read that again but i think as a response i would like to hear what the response is yes please right uh dear chancellor colbin thank you thank you for your detailed email regarding the license application what page uh page 45 55 45 well dear care chancellor caroline corbin thank you for your detailed email regarding the license application for the channel center appreciate your concern for the local community and the feedback you provided based on the conversations with residents firstly i'd like to address a particular point in your email the claim regarding myself being inebriated and able to lock the premises are completely false at no point have i been in such a state when i am required to pick up sorry lock up the building additionally when i'm locking up the channel center after any event there's always another individual present to assist me to ensure everything is securely locked up the 19 question when a resident did help me lock up was due to the shutter being difficult stroke heavy to close he understand there have been concerns about the community engagement and transparency since the last hearing we have made efforts to better communicate with residents including hosting an open day on the on june the 22nd to discuss any concerns and ideas for the future of the center unfortunately attendance was low but we remained committed to engaging with the community more effectively we are open to arrange in a further we are open to arranging further meetings and welcome any suggestions how we can improve regarding the concerns about the nature of events held and the impact of the surrounding area i want to reassure you that we have taken steps to minimize any potential disruption we have encouraged the use of public transport and walk into the venue to reduce traffic moreover we have measures in place such as signage and verbal reminders to ensure noise levels are kept to a minimum when patients leave the premises we also have been actively working on maintaining and cleaning this of the car partners surrounding area the suggestion application for a license is for a private drink club is not accurate we aim to provide a space that benefits all members of the community and are actively looking into ways to accommodate a wider range of activities and groups i hope this clarifies some of the points raised and we remain open to further dialogue to ensure the child centre can be a valuable resource for everyone in the community thank you for taking the time to express your concerns best wishes Anita thank you no more reading thank you all right um so we are now going to be moving on to the residents um so uh residents four who's going to be representing you yeah it's um residents um against the application first best okay sorry residents against the application i take it that's you all right now we um representation from you which is fine so if there's any investments you'd like to make but introduce no further new evidence the floor is yours thank you yeah i mean i don't think this is representative how many people are objecting to the license application again unfortunately for most people they're not able to take time out of their working day to come and attend these meetings i think the general consensus amongst our local community is that it's sad that we're even all here addressing the same things because we live locally we've seen no changes to the center i was surprised i mean i have very close connections with the local police we have a specific officer who's dealing with these things he has issued a whole number of area bands and they only they're only valid for 12 months so when they lapse the situation could come back the reason why the centre is in such a kind of difficult location is that it actually backs onto lots of different things it backs onto residential it backs onto what we refer to as a school which is actually education links which is a education centre for troubled children and those that have been uh can't be educated in a kind of mainstream yeah in the mainstream so i mean that that has its own issues with the centre and uh one of our community members is actually a trustee for that so we're handling that the alleyway that runs down the back of the community centre is between the end of the terraced houses and the car park and it operates as a fantastic opportunity for drug dealers and addicts to meet and disperse without being able to be cornered by the police so the area itself lends itself really well to anti-social behavior coupled with the fact it's an alleyway so you can't be seen it's the perfect place to do things that are unsavory smash bottles go to the toilet all the sorts of things that addicts seem to do but i mean i i'm not going to wax lyrical about i think it's all been expressed it's all in the in the objections the same statements still stand we want a community centre that's for the community we all have young children like i'm a father of two i would love to have my children's parties in the centre but at the moment there's no confidence that one the money that we're paying for the event will go back into the centre and the upkeep of the centre and that it's being run i mean it to me seems strange that it would need to be paid by cash and then i guess the other thing is that until we have confidence i mean unfortunately i wasn't able to attend the event because i was actually on holiday where we got to meet with them but again we come together as a community group and we talk we all talk everybody's talking all the time so we know what's going on and the the consensus of that again was that people tried to engage but there was no feedback and i put that in my objection and it came back that they were still deciding the committee members but again we don't know who the group are what they represent are they a charity group do they represent newham council to newham council own the building this is the first time i've seen john john currently has control over the building he's now written a new contract which states different dates to when it can be used so presumably he can sublet again to other people and whether or not they're going to piggyback off that alcohol license i don't know so i think i mean that's my piece i could talk and talk but the point is until we have real kind of faith and security in what's going to happen where everybody is a bit reluctant to kind of use the centre because we don't really know what's going on okay um we as a committee do agree with that but you have to understand this is about the four license objectives and the issuance of a personal or uh sorry premises yeah license to be erected um but please do not you know um don't take it that we are putting this to one side and we don't take this seriously we are taking everything into consideration but you have to understand that it's about the liquor license so my question to you is why do you believe if we were minded to grant a liquor license to this premises which the liquor will be contained inside behind counters served people however they decide that the setup is going to be is going to impact on people outside the upkeep why do you think this would be a problem to you and the community well i mean our local demographic is i mean we are predominantly non-drinkers we have a huge muslim community that have no interest in going to a bar and drinking that's not part of what they do it doesn't represent them so there's a there's a big part of the community that will be misrepresented by turning into something that sells alcohol and i mean i fundamentally i do not have an issue with a bar i think sometimes that's the right thing for a party or for a function or for a birthday party there are people that want to drink people that don't but again the hours to which those are being put forward at times that i don't consider to be social times to drink i wouldn't personally start drinking at 12 o'clock on a sunday afternoon that's not something i do but maybe that is something that other people do and i think inherently the nature of the building that was never built for that purpose coupled with the fact it's now been split between something that is a safe place for children i just can't understand how it's ever going to work harmoniously between somewhere where young people are going to go to the toilet they arrive at eight o'clock in the morning the place has been used as a bar till midnight the night before who's controlling the cleanup the security the everything that's come from yes you're piggybacking back-to-back kind of different uses but i still have not been demonstrated that the bar can work back-to-back with the nursery when there's only one set of toilets okay so one more question if we were not minded to grant the license and they still had the same opening hours what would your argument be there what do you mean well if you're minded not to grant the alcohol license so they couldn't sell alcohol but they still had the same opening hours what's your argument be there well my argument would be that i would hope that somebody that wasn't drinking alcohol would probably take better care of a toilet and a building than people that have been in there drinking for eight hours i mean i think we all know the nature of what happens when you have a few drinks you become careless or i don't know um so i just think the nature of the two things just they just they just don't fit you can't they could fit if someone could demonstrate that you have a cleaner that's going to go in immediately at 12 o'clock but so far we've seen that anita can't even close the gates to the place let alone make sure that it's cleaned up you have to have an assistant with you there's somebody who's not in the room again here that's signed the bottom of the contract carol what is carol's involvement in the center why is carol there is carol doing your job or is carol doing john's job i don't fundamentally there are lots of pieces still missing to this puzzle in order to give everybody comfort that this can actually work okay thank you yes you've more or less made this point anyway but are there any any timings that you think for an alcohol license are there any timings that you think could be acceptable for this premises i mean you're saying no alcohol at any time or other i mean fundamentally they would they they could be acceptable at social time on a friday night or a saturday night when people socialize and are out i mean for me i have two young children so socializing times are completely different for everybody else because i'm putting my kids to bed at half past six so whatever time they do it is going to impact what i'm doing and i think that's the case for a lot of young families in the immediate area but ultimately a friday night and a saturday night could could work if managed and run in a professional and and safe way for everybody within the community but the caveat of that again is that even the event that they held they held events these these tens these are these licensed events and we could hear the music but ultimately then the dispersal even if on foot rather on cars i mean we've been through the thing with cars and all the doors slamming and people beeping and not being able to get out because it's a dead end you can't get out um and then you've got people leaving on foot and they're drunk so they're talking very loudly it's the middle of summer everyone's got their windows open it's just fundamentally not an area for kind of a bar you could have a 40th birthday party that would work really well but i don't think it's really a place that you want to encourage people that have never visited or to come an organized event maybe yes but as a bar it doesn't work yeah um a couple questions if you don't mind um you spoke about the noise coming from the the building my question therefore is how far do you live from where the center is i live next door to the center so i am here in in your image car park where to go i mean again why we aren't able to to have a plan that has the entire ownership of the center the outdoor spaces the car park so we can really understand what's going on i live to the top right of the page off the page so the first house on the end of the terrace but the other side of the car park so if you were to extend the page top left i'm the first house it's lots of those public public domain so it's yes sorry okay right so i'm not i don't i'm i'm not as close as miles lodge yeah i'm not as close as the other block of flats that actually backs onto it i'm the other side of the car park and i can still hear them okay thank you i'm one more and forgive me about this but it's just my personal interest do you drink yes i do thank you very much thank you um would you like to we're moving on oh sorry was the only one that would like to ask mr any questions okay is there anything you would like to say yeah then i think uh where we've spoken to a lot of the parents from the nursery and their main concern is obviously the safeguarding of their children sorry i can't hear you safeguarding of the children safeguarding of the children yeah one of the um concerns they did bring up is the shared hallway we have at the back and i know in ita last time you said you're going to put cc tv but um obviously that hasn't been done and the parents when we came back from the first hearing we did um they questioned us you know what happened what was the outcome and everything and they were happy actually um having that heard that obviously that hasn't been put in place sorry there's some machinery behind you you'll have to speak a bit louder oh sorry the security so um yes could you get what we wind on that you said you were happy with what so basically when anita said that she's gonna put security because we've got shared hallway at the back right so we basically use the same entrance going to the baby room and um anita last and did say that security will put in there and has it he hasn't no and that's one of the things parents came back to us and said you know has all that been put in place obviously we have to be honest and say no so again they were very uneasy um about this going ahead and obviously they've said it's been quite a while and no improvements have been made they can't like for them it's it's more of a concern that after all this has been put on the table no action has been taken and this is obviously their child coming to the center okay so um that's what that's one of the things and the other things which the parent has mentioned is the increase of rubbish um that has that that they've seen and um the car park cleaning obviously we we've uh did the car park cleaning as well and paid someone to do it because even we thought it got too messy as well right so um but are you saying that um it's um the customers of the child or center that is creating this rubbish or just people in general um that's uh obviously we use the bins as well yeah it's mainly when there's been events and things like that it has been an overload right okay and a lot and the parents all the parents have to come through the car park and when they've come across glass rubbish it's it's not a nice site and especially when they've got younger kids that are running around and what are the age of these children they're from four months up to five years now you made mention of this uh this uh corridor that you have to walk through um and your concerns about having the security put on there now from my understanding i didn't think are there people adults going through these corridors at the same time as the children all day every day it's adults that are going through it's just the adults using they're using that bit right so where's the castle for the children so basically in order to get to the baby room you've got to uh the adults use that bit where the baby room entrance is done through the garden right okay all right thank you um yes so this would be um problem all the time regardless of how the community area is used or whether it had in license the the use of this corridor is so the use of this passageway the insecurity there is that a problem at all times or just when the community center is being used i know it's going to be a problem for us when the nursing is running yes it will be when the nursery is running or when the community centers uh when the nurse when the nursery is running not so much when the community is running no so it's an issue that you have as an ongoing yes regardless yes yes yeah because you know before the timings were the were when they're not to me with you know it's five o'clock the regional timings that's that's the reason why the parents were saying that you know the nursery is still open at that time because it's going to be a shared corridor that was a concern of this yes do you think we sorry do you think we need to can you show us on the plan the corridor sorry what what uh i haven't got my bosses and the corridor i don't think let's be on that all right um council any questions for the other three okay yes you're talking about the rubbish and so on the outside is that again how frequently is that rubbish there is it a constant piling up rubbish it's been it's been quite a bit for daily yeah it's every week there's been some form of rubbish there right yeah and this has been within the last recent couple of months same has it got better than anything months yeah is it the same so sorry has it got worse in the last couple of months has definitely definitely got worse the last couple of months yeah okay am i able to offer clarification about the rubbish or is that me giving or same yes again so basically the situation is they need some more dust bins we're talking commercial bins yeah commercial bins we have a fox set that live in the car park and if anything is accessible they go mad for it there are four or five foxes that live in the car park if it's not sealed it is everywhere and it's not a difficult thing to fix i think we could do with another two three euro bins and then on the event days the rubbish could actually be packed into a bin and shut not piled on top of a dustbin and then it gets scattered so that is a problem that could quite easily be resolved and should have been resolved all right um so sorry can i sorry can i say anything um yes yes i'm i was in a meeting sorry i wasn't i didn't want to sort of i couldn't i couldn't say anything at the time but i've just finished um it's on yes yes right so you're going to be uh asking the question of um mr gillett with regards to his uh submission in the agenda and what he should just mentioned or with the nursery regarding the nursery yes what they've just yeah right so well personally for me who i said before i when i spoke earlier that i i run a group of members for the community i've been working in newham for the last uh 15 years running this um group and anita has been very supportive with us and our could you could you hold on one moment please sorry i think everyone has an opportunity has an opportunity to speak later but you can just ask questions a question i yeah yeah it's just spoke because you won't have an opportunity to to okay later it's all right so the questions i was asking is that um given the fact that a lot of our events take place in the evening when the nursery has finished um how does that impact the nursery then when then it's closed so i want to find out how that has an impact absolutely it's not quite the evening it's when the nursery is open sorry sorry you'll have to speak it's about when the nursery is open not when it's closed obviously we're not going to mention anything when the nursery is closed right now just that i would rather there was some issues about people sort of coming in the center potentially um and using the the um bar area things like that i think that was one of the issues i think i i was i heard earlier or maybe i didn't you know i wasn't sure about that but what sorry what i'm trying to say was that was there some conversation about the bar being used during that during the morning and the issues that they could face with people coming to the center during the daytime well i don't remember hearing no that um i think when we were discussing sorry i could be wrong it was the issue about the corridor it was the corridor yeah and my notes also says that i think the nursery take issue with um the aftermath after a party so um any glass rubbish or um that's left in the car park following on from the party if i've understood it correctly yeah so i think the question everyone is asking you and how do you think given that your the license that they're asking for will commence after the nursery has closed and cleared how will it impact the nursery well it's obviously if there's a lot of this glass rubbish lying around of the aftermath of the party this is a footpath that the children use so you know if there's going to be glass and stuff on the floor that is going to be an issue for us yeah so is this another question well well it's just that if i'm just trying to find out is that that's sort of obviously down to just someone to come to clean up before the nursery opens so i'd imagine that could be something that would be solved quite easily well i think that's what john guillot just said you know more bins um and just getting more clarification on if it's cleaner coming in what time and it being consistent is there any other question you'd like to ask if on of john or the nursery staff um no because a lot of it's going to be about the after the nursery is closed that's really because i don't see as much impact as much as as in terms of the of using the premises when the nursery's on because it's a different situation probably that's what it is no that's fine but as we were saying we're talking more of the outside space space and the mess and the rubbish and the impact it would have on the children having to travel through that every day going to nursery right can i just go to you don and then we're going to wrap it up i ask him on a question yeah when it's her turn okay so no one else for no questions sorry again sorry yeah get it right monday um okay so we're going to move now to four so we're going to give you an opportunity how yeah perhaps we can start with vanita yes and the supporting representations yes so anissa would you like to present your your case please all right we are there for the community all right first of all you're gonna have to talk loud sorry sorry we are there for the community we'll do anything we work for nothing we're all volunteers we want to get the people in we want to get you all in to help us volunteer help us get the community going that's what we want put on things that we can do for the children for the old people everything we are for the community but yes the rubbish that's not always do with us but it's your car park well it's handled car park because it's john's sorry john's center our center when we're not there darker monday there's a chinese group going that is down to carol who plies that out that's not down to us you're up we're not there on the monday and there's certain days that we're not there that she hires the whole layout so that's down to them but we i would like you to come in talk to us and then will you that you would you'd benefit you really would i mean we put christmas dinners on pensioners three course dinner pensions christmas we have parties we've got a ring coming up for the children we've got that coming up um adults one uh what else do we do we do everything if any people want to come and use the hole right they hide the whole layout but that's how they pay the rent because we have to pay rent it's not free there and you have to pay bills council don't pay for anything so it could stay when we've been not a profit making all the money we we take in from over the bar what we use to run events for the qme like the christmas children's party halloween pie it funds all those events and it pays for the music um the where we do the penthouse christmas dinner we we we volunteer volunteers come in and we serve them a free course christmas dinner i don't think you need to talk to me i think it's stuff like that we don't make any profit out that the only person actually gets paid is a person who works behind the bar on those events everyone else is voluntary and we all help when we have events and we've got we've started putting signs up now that no drinks would be taken out the hall or the lounge bar even if they're going for the toilet the drinks have to stay in the bar so that nothing goes out no drinks to be taken outside um we've got signs there now um please think of the residents when leaving and that's we've started putting all them up we are thinking that we've also what we've done with the car park with that alleyway as you came into the car park on the right there was that big bush where they used to sit behind we've cut some of that away now so when you come when the um safety officers walk past they can actually see behind that they've got nowhere hiding behind it now away from them we are we are willing to help it's just cases we need that chance and with the cctv with the money at the moment because we've not there we haven't got the major we want to get that in as soon as we can but we need to raise the money to pay for that and then we will work with the police residents as we've said before in the last one we put cameras in the car park to cover that alleyway as well so it's not correct as another deterrent you've done that already with what we want to do we did mention it but the thing is it comes down the thing again it's having the money to pay for all that ctv in one go because we've not we've not been earning any money right the cctv i've got someone already he's got all the cctv ready to go in we pay monthly for that so we need an income so we can pay it if we're not making an income we can't pay for that okay but we we've i would love it in because we have one around our other club and that's the best way to deter people because you just go on there and see what they've been up to it's okay and hopefully it'll deter they'll have use of the use of the tck cameras to see who's doing what all right um is there anything else you'd like to add before we start asking questions no i don't think so sorry um yes please thank you um you're you have the premises uh it's this wednesday thursday friday sash and sunday is that when your event that's what it is i think we've seen it wrong because it's we've got it for monday we've got it all week but but we only had the hall from wednesday the bar area at the bar and the bar area that's what we we've hired yes but we hired the whole that because on wednesdays we have bingo club pensions about 40 people coming we're going to leaflet the area to get other people in i spoke to one last week actually um yeah that's fine so so the bar area all week would be no no people to come in when it would be like it wouldn't actually monday monday night would be open because there's a pool team that wants somewhere to go bar would be open on monday night monday night yeah tuesday and wednesday it wouldn't be unless someone hires the whole or someone wants to come in and they'd hire it from you no from carol those separate and then yes separate and then we combine yeah we get together and thursday we had ran out of the club we had three dance teams their way they've got nowhere to go they're waiting to come in and but they have access to the bar yes access to the bar yeah before they'd be using that it will be the whole it will be the whole because that's the big area to do the darts yeah um the bar area is too small for any darts that's that thursday friday day it's sale we have sales uh sales for once a month once a month yeah just once a month that's with even saturday we don't we don't have everything going on every weekend it's only people want to hire the whole and if people hire the whole and if we want to put something on for the residents for them to come out enjoy yourselves so that they know there's going to be no trouble when you think so how would how would residents know what was going on on what day we've put leave put it on the um we've got website okay we've got a notice bold we put we advertise it and we put it on online we've got some young fellow that does online for us so an average might be so you're saying a mo and the average week you might have the the bar open on a monday yeah just for people spit them in and save it's right that's right that's what it is for socializing yeah and on not on tuesday no nothing on tuesday no for instance nothing on wednesday no because we're there in the afternoon with pensioners there's a call i'm seeing coffee it wasn't no it's thursday bar and hall on thursday okay and then thursday every thursday you'd have a darts club and uh the bar open sometimes no it would depends if they're playing away or playing at home it all depends and so you might be open if you're thirsty it might be open we might not and then friday monthly you have salsa and what about the other three fridays we might i'm thinking of doing bingo that night for people so they can come in so it could vary yeah and you have no access to the bar on a friday no access to the bar on a tuesday or wednesday now i've got the access because i've got the keys but my mom won't be opening it but you don't open it on those stars unless um unless someone wants to hide it out the bar area and the big hall yes all right so could i also ask you what the rent is for so you pay rent monthly weekly at the moment because we've got no income they're letting us because what the pensions and that they are they're letting us have it for nothing but soon as we can make some income we can put towards the bills we can pay rent so it goes towards the bills yes so they're they're going to delay charging you that's right until we make an income just until you yeah getting and then that helps to pay the bills and rent and everything else and everything else oh you mean for your yeah because there's a lot of things you have to pay you mentioned karate at some point didn't she that's a choose do you know it yes tuesday night bars not open without the bar open yes about the bar right and that's going to be every tuesday that's every tuesday okay that's giving me a bit of a picture of what's going on all right take them for a moment thank you very much my question was going to be about money as well so money money okay so forgive me if i my question relates to what my colleague has probably put to you now in your opening address you say that you don't make any money and you have one person in which you have to pay a wage to how is that paid is it paid on a daily rate or is it over a period of time it's a week's weekly wage just in case what they were or actually they'll be given to them on the day but then it goes into the where the wages go hmr yeah it goes into them to just declare everything it goes in the payroll that's it goes on payroll okay and um in terms of income again what outgoings do you have to pay in terms of what the business or what the venue makes do you have any other overheads that you have to pay for oh yeah eventually i've got paid rent then and when we put something on we have to if we have a disco or everything you have to pay them we don't charge people to come in it comes from what we make from the bar so that's what we can pay then and they're not cheap um we just say we put things on that's how we need for the money okay what about taxation are you liable for tax yes we are and you do pay that yeah what else do you pay for that we haven't mentioned here today yeah we we've um we've still got it um what is it what's that thing we had to pay well the music license you know this is a lot to say there's a music license you have to pay there's there's a lot of licensing you have to pay music license um we have to pay for the alcohol that we supply from our suppliers and literally it's just covering all costs and what's left is what we use to run the functions so it doesn't it's done at no cost to the residents we try and fund everything there we do charity events to help raise money for different charities and stuff like that and is there any um course in terms to the inland revenue those on the individual yeah they pay tax they pay tax insurance on there that's done through the payroll okay i think that's enough for me thank you very much indeed all right thank you and thank you for the information um i need to know what happened with your charity status and why it is still going right so is that registered at company's house check it it's just that we haven't put uh uh this year's in because we're waiting for our books to come back in the other subject center our account with my accountant right one moment please steve so it just obviously it's a question you may want to ask but just for clarity it referred to earlier was the child loss center i don't know if it needs is referring to a status in community votes i was referring to charles because that's why we're here so i like that's not to do with me but i have have you got charity status on charles on the channel center no right okay could you tell me who is the manager of charters child or center it is committee run this committee many people on the committee sir unfortunately they either died or moved away they've either died or moved away there's only three left now there's a big committee members yeah and the place is not being run correctly so this is why i was pleased with anita come along her committee to move the channel center forward to take it back to her it was right okay so right this very moment in time there's three committee members yes so is um what's this lady who signs this carol is she a committee member oh she just works in the office right so you have staff that works in the office yep how many members of staff only one one so that's carol okay um three now your committee member yes miss member and the lady behind you oliver you a committee member yes you're the three no no no no no right so i'm coming two different committees here right i'm looking for the one for the charles original yeah that's me that's you no anita's community center committee right just again for clarity um it's an individual applicant in the name of anita foreman there is no charity on this application wonderful can i just say something the mayor and the council do know about us because when they shut out of those they're on a place down because they want to build and it's not flats all above it's just about nine flats at the front community center at the back which we planned it with them because they said you could go back when it's done right we are talking find us somewhere to go right yeah no i completely understand that what we're talking about today is strictly and solely the charter center right hey yeah i don't want to hear about nothing else so who's the committee members for the charter center just you come on okay okay okay john so who makes the decisions for the charter center um if i'm not about then carol does but i'm trying to step away from the shandor center right and you've been a member for charter centers since its conception in yeah a few years yeah from about 95. 1995 the child centre itself yeah and on the memory yeah okay so um as you can see uh when we had that last meeting in april um did you ever have an opportunity to look at the um decision letter that was sent out with regarding the refusal of your last application no did you read it yes okay now anita there's a lot of information that we put in here it took us a lot of a lot of time and there are major loopholes in the running of the charter center which again is all in here now when you wrote out your secondary application form this hearing why is it that you sorry why is it that you was not able to put in some of the homework that you needed to make this um application more stronger i don't know i don't know i just i need you to write it out right okay now that's that's fine considering we did tell you the last time we have a licensing team here which would literally hand hold you through and make sure that you cover all the points that gave us concern the last time which once again you haven't now if you're the sole person that we have to talk to you're the one that's applying for the premises license john wants to step away the the premises is not being run properly you want an alcohol license aside the tens that you can apply for um why do you think that gives us i don't know confidence because we're now this license to run it properly that's why we want the license we want to run it properly you still things like the rubbish in the car park that's not properly that doesn't right right when we see rubbish in the car park steve always goes and clears it up i turned up there once or the other monday i turned up the other monday not wednesday it was wednesday because i do the bingo coins for the oaps and there were bags everywhere we hadn't had been at the edge we hadn't been at the center and i literally cleaned them all up put more in the bin picked up all the rubbish i spent about an hour and a half clearing it all up and it was from a previous event of being held there a previous event been held by whom carol by carol so okay so i cleaned all it all up so that it wasn't laying there and put it on the bin also the shapes we don't want to leave messes behind we tidy up as we go yeah but unfortunately that's not quite what if yeah if right so i'm gonna move on um so uh the outside area so basically you have no money okay so the how much do you pay for your rent as i said not nothing at the moment but since you've been there you've not paid on any rent no because he hasn't asked for him yet but eventually yes that would have to be paid be done yes so okay um let's go back right uh right so even on the last decision um have you come up with any policies that you could submit to us like the dispersal policies uh policies that we spoke about the last time people coming in people coming out people making noises down but i i'm going to do keeping away and always to be quiet you haven't actually written a dispersal policy for your business yes you haven't have you written a dispersal policy for your business have you written out a policy to say how you would make people disperse i didn't know how to okay that's right but um i'm personally i will go and tell him to be quiet um i just i'm up front i'll tell him okay all right okay so um have we got a better understanding of how this this is working do you think so there's still some very great areas right i think so no that's fine you can ask what we want um okay so i've noticed from the objections that you've got you've been quite um verbal in your answers back which is is great um and i know that this is not how you really wanted it to go um so what would you now do differently if you were granted the license what do you mean i don't know what you mean because we run it properly can steve answer that please yes of course well you understand your question we would consult more with the residents try and get some of them more involved with events and stuff that we can plan for the future and generally be more open to uh different types of events um take more okay make me sure that the car park is kept at a certain standard work with the nursery i with the rubbish is work between us getting some more bins in so that it's there's enough bins there to take all the rubbish there should be no need for anything to be put on the floor we've already started we've already put signs up in the bar area in the hall to say as i've mentioned previously no drinks to be taken outside of the hall or the bar to outside or into the car park the signs up saying please when leaving the building please think of the local residents please keep the noise down so we are trying to adjust to everything with the in in the new area and we're hoping to be able to do more once we hopefully get some of the residents on board and then we can start coming up with different ideas of what to do in the hall and go from there right thank you council yes okay do you have um an income an expenditure account yes i do who looks after that hey who looks after that do you have a trade i have an accountant right we've got an accountant an account accountant yeah all right okay i didn't know that and is that accountant paid yes they have more than one paid employee then haven't you oh because you mentioned one earlier i think the barman the bar person yeah you have to pay yeah sorry because you have to pay for a service each year i know you have two individuals that you have to pay costs too is that right oh so you can't just for the other thing yeah where we're not running here we can't really discuss we don't know anything yet right so the count and everything hasn't been changed over into the channels yet because you're not operating and because you're not bringing in an income yeah okay thank you yeah good right so um is there any questions sorry richard just because we have a preemie and we have discussions chek may i ask on your behalf and in respect of the the gaps in your application that's been brought to the attention of the responsible authorities they mentioned they talk about conditions and say and i know there's been some engagement where you've got by further conditions um i think the question really here is what's your understanding of these conditions why why why do you think that the members or the licensing authority or the police authority um are concerned that there's lack of conditions or advocacy of those conditions like perhaps i could just ask that question just just so you may be able to so when you were completing your application you have the operating schedule where you say how you would promote the full licensing objectives for example public nuisance and stuff how what's your understanding about offering conditions to promote those objectives um oh i know what i'm doing i know what i'm doing i know how to put them into place you know but i just can't explain it no no it's okay it's it's honestly i know how to put them in place yeah it's just an open question it's because i'm impartial here so i do understand it all and i do put them in place when let's say when we have when we have events on we have volunteers i like myself will be around it's not just me it's other people will be around and i'm constantly reminding people please when you leave be quiet we have the signs up more signs going up as well and hopefully let's say once you can get the money for cctv that all will be up which the police will have access to and hopefully it'll help the residents with that alleyway with the drug related paraphernalia that goes on down there and literally it's we've all and literally it's we've all been helping for a while now so we all know we'll have all sort of do our own little roles to make sure that it's everyone enjoys themselves they have families with the children and that when they leave they they remember about the the neighbours and the residents okay we try and promote um rather than driving using public transport so there's less noise in the area and less um traffic thank you thank you very much for that the math thank you sorry i just thought no it's yeah no that's fine anything are there any questions responsible authorities to anita if in uh so the outside areas so the bar area did you say that outside area would not be used it is only on a sunday it's used what time is it used till um one one till about five till about five and how are you going to make sure that um customers out there aren't causing a nuisance they don't they don't i'll go out and turn them off sorry i'll go i will go out and speak to them there are there are other people and then they come and play cards and have a drink there will be signs put out there will be signs out there um the other outside area the main hall in your application you said it was going to close at 10 or 11. yeah um bear in mind that's a fire escape how are you going to make sure it's a push door open it's not locked it's a push door so you can get out easy yeah but you're saying when you close it well sorry what will happen once that door is closed there'll be a volunteer volunteer will be there and advise people like that the door's now shut no one's to go out there and when we get our cctv it's gonna go it's gonna go on my phone so i can watch what's going on all the time um okay you identified some conditions that you're prepared to agree to um one of the ones you didn't select was k14 which is around displaying a number for a member of staff at the center in case people do have issues is there any reason why you were not going to know number that people could contact you if they have a problem with noise or other issues we will have a contact number an address an email up on a board on the notice board uh stuff like that so that people if they've got a complaint they can have a phone writing or email we will do that um because it's only right that you may have something someone may get upset by someone that we haven't seen and they may want to report it and that way we can then follow up on that stuff like that so there will be contact details put up um and presumably you're still really hiring it out people to have their own private events um will they be allowed to bring their own not if we've got a license not if you've got a license license they'll be allowed to bring their own and that that way you've you've got if you've got to get a license we can if people bring their own drinking you can't control the drink you can't control what they're drinking if you've got a license license bar you can you can stop serving people when you think you think they've had enough i would i would have more control then on the amount of alcohol consumed by individuals and if we think it's to the level there then we can then ask them to leave where if they bring their own in they sort of they can sneak them in and out of the club with our scene where if we've got the bar we can control exactly where they they are with that drink that's sort of the questions so um who's who's been looking after the bar oh i'll be your partner who will be looking after but we'll have a bar staff will stay as well you've got a personal license no but you've got a license but you're being i'll be there all the time but you you'll be looking after i'll be there all the time yeah okay so i'm going to refer to mine because i hope you read my letter i did and obviously the decision letter from past time in it it spoke about challenge 25 do you understand yes i do understand that one do you explain to the committee what challenge 25 is if you don't look 25 you ask for id what id would you ask for oh passport or passport photo id so you have taken on board some of this yes i have um so who you'll be employing to run to to use the bar to to work the bar sera sera fit fit simmons have you got a personal license you don't need a personal she can put in for one yeah yeah i've worked you've worked there for many years for many years now and i work at another club as well okay um so cctv i'm very concerned about cct you haven't got any no no but it's all it's all waiting to go in the people have got it i'm hiring it off they've got it all ready to go in it's right for me to say put it in so i'm the strength of you getting a license you will yes we will definitely you don't get i don't like it not having cctv i'd rather have cctv don't get the license you won't i won't be able to okay okay um i think that's all i have nice um any comment please about hiring out the hall yeah this is done by carol that's done by carol so do you have any influence on that because bearing in mind if she hires it out to someone and there's a problem you know something yeah she you are the one that's going to be held yes i know yes i know license that'd be that'd be fine would you do you have any influence over that yeah we'll do yeah oh yeah but carol will be there anyway when she hires the hall that she's always there right and what did she do any get some people i mean i'm assuming to be honest i don't know because when she has the whole like i've not been there with her because we're not at the bar so i've not have to be there so you bring their own drinks in right and that's what i'm saying once we we do get the license then we'll be working more closer with her because they won't be able to bring their own drink in we'll be controlled in the bar so we'll have more control over private highways than we have now and it's in it is all locked locked away by two doors all right what about children do you let people the children where they're for families on their own oh not on their own no no no the children on their own they're parents they must be must be accompanied by parents right would you agree to addition to that effect yeah yeah okay so it's and you wouldn't have um parties for children children's parties but the parents are all there aren't they right okay if they hired if they hired all for a kids party the parent the parents and people there staff as well staff yeah we'll be volunteers we will be there yes we will but would they undergo any training regarding uh that there is welfare and vulnerability training for children that's where with this fence which you can do we're all willing to have the checks done and also willing to do the training so that these events can be run smoothly we've helped out i've helped out with like halloween and christmas i'm dps checked any uh uh the old lovers um previously so now we now need to have our checks updated so that when if we do get the license we are checked and parents are capable yeah right and how many members of staff will have those checks respect for chrissy we'll be willing to get quite a few of us okay thank you so obviously there's no point in having these checks if we're not going to get the license you know we will be there to that no but the checks are just more than that aren't they i mean you're you're working in the community center with vulnerable people so yeah um okay are there any more questions or is there anything any of you would like to say in support have you put in representation sorry i'm sorry have you delayed it at the back have you put in representation i'm afraid then we'll have to leave it there oliver have you put in representation yes what would you like to say something you've got two minutes okay i just like to say that i am a resident round there i live in crownfield road i'm with the back of coal grave road just at the bottom of um that street there you see the road yeah and i've lived there 24 years and every night i go to bed and i have never heard any noise coming from that club or the other club at the end of the street 20 noise from neighbors and parties in the gardens and weddings and different things so you're not going to say well i'm going to move house because they're getting a wedding next door and i'm going to have a party there they've got it with me that is life it's actually life you know i mean and they're bringing up the kids or what the kids aren't going to understand what it is or noises you know i mean it's ridiculous and that's all i've really got to say thank you very much thank you thank you for voicing your opinion um so you want to ask a question anita can you just uh can i just have some clarity and so you're saying if carol highs out of horn anything that happens you're going to be in charge of what the bar is it just with the bar well which regarding the bar yeah okay anything else any clear enough or anything you stand to carol okay you've got my weird setup really weird all right so um anita just so unclear i just think yes i'm stellar i'm stellar i've been the chair of several committees i knew them and swan housing and i've used anita's other club many many occasions and i can honestly say it's always been run very professional and there's never been any trouble i've done children's parties st george's parties christmas parties you name it i've done it but for the last 25 years and anita the volunteers have been so helpful they've made my life easier by being there and helping the way they do and it's the same if she's got a license she can control what's being sold what's being drunk without a license people can just take in what they like thank you and she's got no control to stop them thank you very much for that thank you right and i have yvonne are you there yes i'm here yeah right now the opportunity to speak thank you for that right it was just really just everybody saw my support for anita as i was saying earlier we've run a dance group we do ballroom and latin dancing yes and we have over a hundred members in my group now they don't always all turn up but they are very active dancers and you know in terms of health and well-being they can go there to exercise have some social you know connections a lot of them are isolated from the community they don't really have a lot of friends or their you know whatever reasons they're going through but it's the place that we can go and and sort of socialize you know relax and and meet new people and develop friendships and relationships so we've been we've been anita for a number of years now i've always found her to be professional we have no issues there whatsoever she will you know if if it's too noisy she'll tell me i'll turn the music down but then also i'm responsible that anyway so i would make sure that we wouldn't disturb the neighbors when we leave the venue we're always very respectful about people you know still sleeping we're normally there once a month on a friday night where we do ourselves up we also do sundays we're there on sunday afternoons as well and it's just a game to do some lessons and to meet up as a group so we we've been using the center quite actively in the last well the last good year at the shandos and previously at the other center i need to held so we don't have any problems in in the sense i think you know people need to be responsible as well and and and take some responsibility about leaving the venue in a respectful manner and leaving quietly we you know so i think um in terms of how she operates the venue she does ensure that it's well run i don't have any issues with not being well run there um if other i'm talking about when i'm when i'm there um it's always been very very sort of um you know well run and and she she you know doesn't have any issues anybody there i see lots of other people coming there to to do karaoke within the community i see a lot of elderly people sometimes coming along which i think is great that they can join in and have some somewhere to go and meet other people um and and so yeah i think it it does help our health and well-being as as residents within newham thank you thank you very much that was um very insightful um so are there any more questions to be asked can i just ask one to abon so have you been paying anita every month for the last 12 months yes i do when i when i run my venues i pay her for um the use of the of the of the whole and i'll give it to him okay because she's going to pay the bills goes towards the bills okay is that it that's it thank you everyone thank you very much um just whilst i have you here uh john you said you've been um the lease holder for charmers for how many years i've been on the committee since about 1990 by but i never originally sorted the lease out by the previous chairman who's now passed away right okay and when did you get the lease sorry when did you sign the lease i've never signed the lease the lease is ongoing so who we we got what's called a peppercorn rent yes film council yeah who sounds signed the the lease agreement someone must have signed something yeah mr victor bird he died if he's passed yeah right okay all right so who's the responsibility of the center itself the upkeep the the intervals whether we've got left on the committee trying to keep it going ourselves this is why i'm glad that anita's come along because they put a lot of input into the into the central already they've already decorated the bar they've changed some seedings holes they've done the gardens back and front they've cleared up rubbish they've helped clear rubbish from the center where we had a skip put in the car park um yeah their input is greatly appreciated because we want to try and get the center up and running how it used to be right okay i have no further questions no that's it don't think so right lovely okay um right we are going to um go into deliberations now and uh we are going to allow you to go off don't go too far but join the meeting don't go too far we'll make a decision today um and then when we're ready we'll call you back and the answer will be the deliberate decision will be announced all right so meeting now adjourned yeah sorry just and if anybody needs to leave they'll get the decision in an email hello everyone thank you for um this is a patient we've actually come to a decision and my clerk is going to read it out for you so having heard all submissions written and all including those of the residents the licensing subcommittee have decided to grant the license however between sunday sundays and thursdays the licensable hours are reduced to 10 pm and on friday and saturday the hours are reduced to 11 pm the licensing subcommittee have also imposed over 30 conditions to ensure that the concerns of residents and responsible authorities are addressed and details of these conditions will be specified in the decision letter please note that the following the grant of the license residents or responsible authorities can bring the license back to the committee for a view of the license and members can amend or abode the license should be licensing objective to be undermined thank you decision letter and reasons will be sent to the applicant with the aim of reaching the applicant within five working days thank you thank you sorry thank you very much the applicant responsible authorities interest in parties may appeal against the decision to the magistrate's court within 21 days so i didn't mean that i said the applicant responsible authorities and interested parties may appeal against the decision to the magistrate's court within 21 days thank you everyone for coming thank you for your patience this was a hard decision to come to you must take this very very seriously um we've got some big shoes to fill now so give a glock what you can do if there's any problems thank you very much this meeting is now closed thank you please come and talk to thank you