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Governance and Audit Committee - Wednesday, 24th September, 2025 10.00 am, NEW

September 24, 2025 View on council website Watch video of meeting Read transcript (Professional subscription required)

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“Will adult social care costs ever be controlled?”

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Summary

Here's a summary of the Governance and Audit Committee meeting held by Kent County Council on 24 September 2025:

The Governance and Audit Committee convened to discuss a range of issues, including the financial performance of the council and its pension fund, risk management, audit reports, and the use of covert enforcement techniques. The committee agreed to extend the term of office for Dr David Horne as an independent member until the end of March 2026, and also agreed to undertake a recruitment exercise to appoint a new independent member.

  • 2024/2025 Kent County Council Auditor's Annual Report
    • The committee reviewed the Auditor's Annual Report from Grant Thornton, which highlighted ongoing financial challenges, particularly in adult social care and dedicated schools grant (DSG). The report also noted improvements in governance and internal controls.
    • Harry Rayner, a Conservative Councillor, emphasised the need for all committee members to actively participate in questioning, rather than relying on a few individuals.
    • The report identified weaknesses in controlling escalating costs in adult social care, with Councillor Mark Hood, a Green Councillor, questioning whether the council was simply extending existing contracts rather than changing its approach to service delivery.
    • Oliver Bradshaw, a Reform Councillor, raised concerns about the potential costs of local government reorganisation (LGR) and how it would be funded, given the council's existing debt.
    • Mr Rayner criticised the administration's lack of public engagement on LGR, a point also raised in the auditor's report.
    • Ben Collins, Deputy Leader of the Council, responded that it was difficult to provide definitive answers on LGR until the government's plans were clear.
    • The committee discussed the transfer of £39 million from earmarked reserves to general reserves, with Mr Munday questioning whether this was a genuine over-provision or simply a way to achieve a 5% general reserve ratio.
    • The committee agreed to request a stock take on the implementation of recommendations from the Grant Thornton report, to be presented at the January 2026 meeting.
  • 2024/2025 External Audit Findings Report for Kent Pension Fund
    • The committee reviewed the External Audit Findings Report for the Kent Pension Fund from Grant Thornton.
    • Martin Paul, a Reform Councillor, thanked the team for their report regarding security, and highlighted the importance of data protection.
    • Mr Hood asked how the pension fund would be affected by local government reorganisation, and John Betts, the interim corporate director of finance, responded that the council's preference was for the fund to remain covering its existing footprint, regardless of how many unitary authorities were created.
  • Independent Member Term of Office
    • The committee agreed to extend the term of office for Dr David Horne as an independent member to the end of March 2026, and to conduct a recruitment exercise for a new independent member.
  • Internal Audit Progress Report and Annual Report
    • The committee reviewed the internal audit progress report, which highlighted positive outcomes for several reviews, including SEND assurances, equality, diversity and inclusion, and risk management.
    • There were two limited assurance reviews, use of consultants and contract novation.
    • Mr Munday questioned whether one particular department was experiencing issues with contract extensions.
    • Mr Hood questioned the adult social care savings delivery, and whether the team believed there was scope to reduce the budget.
    • Camilla Black, an independent member, asked about the process for the production of management accounts and bank reconciliations following the implementation of the Oracle Cloud program[^2]. [^2]: Oracle Cloud is a suite of cloud computing services offered by Oracle Corporation.
  • Covert Enforcement Techniques
    • The committee reviewed a report on the use of covert enforcement techniques.
    • Mark Rolfe, the head of community protection, provided an update on cases from the previous year's report.
    • Mr Rayner raised the potential for using the Credit Industry Fraud Avoidance System (CIFAS) to reduce overpayments, particularly in adult services.
    • An officer responded that the council had been working with other local authorities to understand their use of social care data and plugging that into CIFAS's databases.
    • Ben Watts, the general counsel, noted that the council had considerable powers in this space, and that the control framework in place meant that individual's rights were not being oppressed.

Attendees

Profile image for Alister Brady
Alister Brady  Labour and Co-operative Party
Profile image for Michael Brown
Michael Brown  Reform UK
Profile image for Alan Cecil
Alan Cecil  Reform UK
Profile image for Martin Paul
Martin Paul  Reform UK
Profile image for Isabella Kemp
Isabella Kemp  Reform UK
Profile image for Oliver Bradshaw
Oliver Bradshaw  Independent
Profile image for John Finch
John Finch  Reform UK
Profile image for Adrian Kibble
Adrian Kibble  Reform UK
Profile image for Mark Munday
Mark Munday  Liberal Democrat
Profile image for Geoffrey Samme
Geoffrey Samme  Liberal Democrat
Profile image for Harry Rayner
Harry Rayner  Conservative
Profile image for Mark Hood
Mark Hood  Green Party

Topics

No topics have been identified for this meeting yet.

Meeting Documents

Agenda

Agenda frontsheet 24th-Sep-2025 10.00 Governance and Audit Committee.pdf

Reports Pack

Public reports pack 24th-Sep-2025 10.00 Governance and Audit Committee.pdf

Additional Documents

Internal Audit Progress Covering Report.pdf
Internal Audit Progress Report and Annual Report 24th-Sep-2025 10.00 Governance and Audit Committe.pdf
Internal Audit Progress Report.pdf
Internal Audit Annual Report.pdf
INTERNAL AUDIT ANNUAL REPORT.pdf
Governance and Audit Committee Action Tracker.pdf
Appendix 1 - Note on Earmarked Reserves and Peppercorn Leases.pdf
Annual Governance Statement - Covering Report.pdf
Draft Annual Governance Statement 2024 - 2025.pdf
Lessons from 20232024 External Auditors Annual Report.pdf
External Auditors Progress Report.pdf
20242025 External Audit Findings Report for Kent Pension Fund - Covering Report.pdf
20242025 Kent County Council Auditors Annual Report - Covering Report.pdf
20242025 Kent County Council Auditors Annual Report by Grant Thornton.pdf
20242025 External Audit Findings Report for Kent Pension Report - Grant Thornton.pdf
Covert Enforcement Techniques Report.pdf
Pension Fund Accounts 20242025.pdf
Independent Member - Term of Office Report.pdf
Appendix 1.pdf
Open Minutes of the Committee meeting held on the 3 July 2025.pdf