Transcript

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we're about to go live. Are we ready? Okay, the live stream has started. Good evening, everybody, and welcome to this meeting of Boston Borough Council's overview and scrutiny committee. I'm Paul Gleeson, and I'm the chair of the committee, and with me this evening is councillor Neil Drayton, my vice chair. I would like to take this opportunity to thank councillor Susan Welbury, who was my vice chair for the last two years on C&C, and was a great support to me, so thank you very much, Susan, cheers, thank you. I would like to remind everyone attending this evening that the meeting is being streamed live on YouTube. Would all persons address this meeting, please do so through the microphone system at all times, this meeting is being recorded, please ensure that microphones are turned off after speaking. As there's no members of the public, we can carry on here. We will now move to the preliminary, part one of the agenda. Apologies for absence. There's two apologies from councillors Pryke and Marsden. There's also apologies from councillor Staples. Okay. Thank you, so, are there any members wish to declare any interest in respect to any items on the agenda? No. Do I have permission to sign the minutes of the Environment and Performance Meeting held on the 11th of February 2025? I think the ordinance was invited to try on page 25. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Just a clarification of... There was a couple of questions there about... We have a question asked by myself about the drop-off of swimming lessons and everything. Did we ever get any answer back from anyone on that? Would that be chased up? Yeah, apologies for that. I wasn't in attendance at that meeting, but I'll look into that for you and provide you with a written response outside of the meeting. And that also follows on a query was raised about whether the callback system had reduced or extended the length of time. And again, they were going to gather more information and come back to this committee. I'll look into that for you as well. Apart from that, everybody agreed. Then we have the minutes of the meeting of C&C held on the 6th of March. And then we have the minutes of the special meeting of C&C on the 8th of May. Thank you for that. We now have to initial the page of the well, which I will do at the end. Thank you. Are there any questions from members of the public received two clear working days prior to this meeting? There are no questions for this meeting. Thank you. That concludes the preliminary parts. We now move to part two of the agenda, the agenda items. Item one is the equality, diversity and inclusion strategy and action plan. So that's pages 25 to 54 of your agenda. Our first item of business is the equality plan report, which is on page 25, which I already said, of the agenda. And this will be presented by Rachel Robinson, group manager, organisational development, who is joining us virtually. Welcome, Rachel. Thank you, Chair, and good evening. So the report brings forward a proposed quality, diversity and inclusion strategy and action plan as set out on pages 31 to 44 of the report pack. The strategy has been developed following stakeholder sessions with representatives from our workforce, councillors, residents and also partners. And it aims to ensure that services are accessible to all. It includes an action plan which is set out in the report pack on pages 45 to 54, and that's around ensuring commitment translates into action. As a summary, the strategy sets out four key objectives, which are understand the needs of our communities and bring local people together. Create a diverse and inclusive leadership team and embed inclusion in decision making. Ensure council services meet the diverse needs of residents and make it easy for local residents to access services. And be an inclusive and fair employer with diverse workforce at all levels. The action plan sets out proposed actions under each of these objectives, but in summary, it creates a focus around training and development, policy review, community engagement and monitoring and evaluation. The objectives of the strategy complement the sub regional priorities of healthy lives, safe and resilient communities, environment and growth and prosperity. And also our internal workforce development strategy, as well as being based around the local government association quality framework. So the recommendation within the report is to review and provide. views on the equality, diversity and inclusion strategy and action plan. And so I welcome any comments and feedback. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So we being asked to review and provide views on this report. Councillor Goodwood. Might as well be the first one out of the, uh, trap. Um, I honestly, I, I don't want to sound trumpian, but I'm really quite opposed to this sort of thing. these policies I don't think they actually ever achieve the objectives that are intended for them but moreover I think they tend to take organizations and others eyes off the real causes of inequality and lack of diversity if you like which essentially is down to income political engagement you know maybe class creating a a series of identities around which you base policies of this sort I don't think actually ever achieves what it's supposed to do it it just enables you know government or the people with power to pass the buck down to the people at the bottom of the pile arguing for one reason or another a lack of training or a lack of commitment to diversity is the reason that there are people out there who are being discriminated against it always it's always struck me since we started talking about these kind of policies that it's a sort of Blair era strategy for dealing with the the obvious inequalities thrown up by the global neoliberal model we all know the neoliberal model you know creates huge distinctions in wealth and power and rather than actually drilling down into that and looking at what's really going on there and trying to empower ordinary people to give them more of a stake in their communities and more of a stake in society politically and economically we create policies like this which throw everybody off the scent they're not based on economics they're not based on political engagement they're not until recently based on biology you know they're simply based on on diversity and so for me you know I will struggle to sort of support something like this I mean you know look at look at the word diversity I mean we always had different sorts of people with different sorts of skills even when we were a sort of a a mono kind of cultural society back in the 60s and 70s and the way that that was resolved was through people working together collaboratively not through government diktat and policy but people working together recognizing they had different skills recognizing how their different skills were compatible with one another and making a success of things and it's the same with inclusion you know um we we don't really have a policy of inclusion because we still grade people we still categorize people by intelligence by ability by the language codes that they're able to use which is why predominantly senior management teams are still sort of brian large white middle class even though you have policies which are intended to address something like that and then and then finally inclusion if you like um sorry um equality as well no I've remade that point about class um and political power so now I think for me it just sums up where I'm coming from I don't really agree with this I don't think it ticks the boxes um oh I think it does tick the boxes but it doesn't actually deal with the problem thank you sorry chairman can I just interrupt um I think the Rachel who's online is having trouble hearing the speaker um um is your um your microphone is definitely on yeah can you hear me Rachel actually can't any could anyone hear me oh yeah I mean anyone online anyone else online who could hear me so Rachel can you hear anybody in the room Rebecca I can hear you completely fine um perhaps it's just Rachel's um computer she can't really answer and she's the one sort of um presenting the paper isn't she yeah um yeah so Rachel you can't hear anything at the moment no she can't doesn't look like she can well she can't really address are you able to ring her yeah just if we just hold us a little bit to see if we can establish sound something in the room um afford things sorry yeah ready for Robinson I Rachel it's Amanda can you oh hi can you I'm I've got you on loud speaker so that you so that you can address the meeting so the microphone is on yeah thank you very much chairman if you'd like to continue thank you councillor austin thank you chairman um mine's going to be very brief although um so i don't want to particularly overlap with um my neighbour um i've written down three little phrases three words efficiency best person for the job best use of taxpayers money thank you so um anybody else at the moment um can't rise out thanks chair first chair um just going to this report if we look at page 43 of the report it shows the census from 2021 and under the category of race you've got a breakdown of of what the census found in boston in 2021 with a comment that the population is less if inevitably diverse than national average but that kind of doesn't make sense when you turn to page 36 and there you've got a a table that says 20.9 percent a non-uk identity in boston and that 44.7 percent of births are to non non-uk mothers and i just don't see how the census in 2021 had such a low scoring compared to our own figures on page 36 and if we're if the government are using the figures on 40 on page 43 they're not going to see that we need any kind of help um with diversity that we need any kind of help um we need any kind of help um did you hear that rachel yeah i heard that there was some um discussion around the figures that were presented by the uh 2021 census and then in comparison to pages on 36 but i didn't quite hear what the question was any comment the question was that um if you look at the higher number the high percentage on page 36 um that kind of says that 20.9 a non-uk identity and that uh 44.7 percent of birth mothers are non-uk and i don't think you know there's been that much change in boston in a period of four years i just kind of wondering what statistic is right is the statistic on 43 right or is it the one on page 36 um i can come back with a um a more accurate answer with that one um and check into those figures in there but it's likely that obviously from a census perspective um it's the completion um ensuring that people are actually completing them um but i'll come back i'll look into the figures and and kind of read this transcript to make sure i'm understanding the question correctly um because it's breaking up a little bit my apologies you okay with that one more question yeah um yeah and also what stakeholders were used to format this report uh it mentions one or two different stakeholders um but was there anyone from our communities from say the lithuanian or ukraine or bulgarian romanian and the many others were they invited to input onto this report yeah so we had a cross section from the workforce and from councillors um also residents as well as partners um who kind of feed in and obviously work with our communities so that was from lynx digital citizens advice and shine lincolnshire as well thank you yeah can you hear me yeah yeah i just wonder can you tell me do we actually have to have a report or do we have to have a policy um based on edi or is it something that is um not mandatory but discretionary for us as a local authority um well we're all um have to comply with the equality act of 2010 um as a local authority we also have um the additional um requirement of the equality sorry the public sector duty so the equality duty is part of that um and as part of that we have to set um objectives of how we will um advance and support equality diversity and inclusion for our residents um so arguably not necessarily have to have a strategy around it but we do have to publish objectives yeah now you can hear me thank you um so so can i just ask you uh in terms of the um the way that um inclusion is defined it seems to be by and large defined around certain um characteristics defined by the equalities act is there any way of actually looking at other um characteristics if you like such as um power or political exclusion or or economic disadvantage and including that in a report of this sort yeah absolutely so um the equality act obviously defines um nine protective characteristics um but again under the public sector equality duty so there's um the responsibilities for authorities to have due regard to the need of eliminating unlawful discrimination harassment and victimization um around advancing equality of opportunity between people who share a protected characteristic but also those who don't but also around fostering good relations between people who share that protected characteristic and again and those who don't um obviously these the minimum of the nine protected characteristics but obviously as an authority we have the uh ability to widen the scope of that yeah i mean in that case i mean i would recommend that we do look at some other characteristics i mean i don't know um how many um votes people around the councillors around this table uh secured to get themselves elected to boston borough council but i think in my case it was about five percent of the eligible vote uh so there is a a huge um lack of uh inclusion uh out there in terms of people's engagement with the political process um and there's also a lot of issues as we know around um the strength of local economies um and the impact of national policy making on local communities so i i think that you know if we are going to be doing something like this to make it more useful for us rather than being mainly just a sort of a box ticking exercise for the benefit of the government um we we ought to look at those other issues because i think they're much more germane to the uh health of our communities than many of the things that have been identified by the government as requiring inclusion in a report of this sort as i say i'm generally pretty ambivalent about whether these reports are of any actual use but you know if we have to have one let's make it much more relevant um and much more relevant for boston thank you counselor eyes on i may have missed it but is there an estimated cost of bringing in this policy to the the council as far as staffing etc um obviously there is built in within the point um the appointment of a two-year part-time fixed-term contract um to oversee the delivery of the action plan um in terms of costs for boston for that um that would be a shared position across the three authorities um so the the cost to boston would be uh the salary cost of just over seven thousand pound which includes on costs thank you very much council wellbury um i'm just wondering how um results are measured at the end of the report what is the criteria that we're working towards yeah i do tend to agree with councillor gilbert it's a bit verbiage it seems a bit off the peg if you look at the um census which i guess it's based on um it all points to an older generation all the points uh uh that are mentioned in the census uh seem to um dictate that the population is aging and i agree with councillor gilbert but maybe we should be focusing on that kind of thing uh as well as uh the other items of the report which seem to be a bit standard to me but you know i'd like to know how we're going to measure results did you get that thank you so within the action plan obviously we have uh each of the individual four objectives um and then what we're expecting is the outcome and how we'll we will deliver those um but also some of that stuff will come through um the uh rejections around things around hate crime for example as one of the examples but also through our residence survey and the feedback that we receive locally from our communities and our partners anybody answer questions um sorry were you asking about a question yeah um well doing all this does it actually benefit anyone anything you know what good is coming out of this my apologies i didn't hear that last time um the question was um what good comes out of this is there any benefit um um i would suggest that the benefit would be in terms of the uh accessibility to um our community um the the whole point with um kind of anything that like this is recognizing that not everyone has the same starting point in life and recognizing that there will be people within our communities um that face challenges um and it's around what we can do to mitigate them um so some people are facing additional barriers um that they have to overcome to access our services or go about their daily lives that's a good yeah i mean just picking up councillor welbury's point really i mean this this document like a lot of documents that we read you know it's got it's a certain style of language which kind of um creates some ambiguity about what's actually being said um i mean i and i wonder whether or not you know in terms of the language that's used we could be a bit more specific about what it is we're trying to say for example we set out to be bold and ambitious in our sub-regional strategy we're proud of the communities who make up boston where we hardly like to say we're not proud of them but it's also one community of boston so you know and and it's it just it just feels like it's something that we we feel it's it's a performative act producing something like this because we have to do it it will be done it will go on a shelf somewhere and it will be completely ignored until the next time we've got to come out dust it down and then and re re-evaluate it and and deliver something very similar so i just wonder also if we are going to be going down the road of looking at some other characteristics which in our opinion age political engagement maybe economic strength of the local population um we could look at um the kind of language we include in this and and try and make it less like we're saying something performative and actually saying something very real and and deliverable um yeah thank you for that feedback um obviously within the strategy that we've got we have all each of the four um objectives um and then under each of those um sort of from page 39 onwards that then um does bullet point the priorities and kind of gives a little bit more in terms of that um so around the better understanding of community needs and then specifically what that means as an action but yeah i can take that away and have a look at that certainly in light of the comments around um sort of additional uh things that we might want to include around inclusion um anybody else no i just obviously on the action plan we haven't got the people who are going to be involved but i assume that will be filled in later um i mean in general i i i don't disagree with the the comments that we're making i do feel it's a a relatively well written report but i think there is an argument maybe for it being in maybe plainer more focused english and looking at the wider causes of this in our community um not particularly with this report but i think it does show again you know one of my arguments has been that we're not really looking at things early enough here we're looking at a report that's being done and we ask them to comment it rather than being involved in what we think should be within the report performative as you said counselor um and so i think that is an argument for us sort of trying to change the way we look at things sometimes but i do think this need may be looking at again including maybe slightly more accessible language straightforward language and including wider causes of these issues in the community yeah certainly i mean essentially what i'm trying to say is and i don't know whether i have managed to say it but you know being disabled isn't necessarily the reason that somebody is disadvantaged if they're disabled and they're wealthy then they're typically not disadvantaged and if you look at the fact this is this act as or this requirement has existed since 2010 and you listen to tammy gray thompson talk on radio 4 about her experiences of getting around using the rail network you realize that these policies just sit around on desks gathering dust that nobody actually does anything to bring any life to them so i think you know it's a it's a much more complicated picture than the simplicities of identity that are used to sort of frame um these um these uh evaluations and these um these uh areas for for um action any ideas you've noted the comments people have made um so we're asked to note the attach report which we do but we do feel that it needs to be altered and um really brought back to us yeah and maybe with more involvement from scruge and in the development for this thank you yeah so members happy with that yeah yeah so that that's why i'm saying yeah thank you yeah councillor austin what was the aim of this to see that we have got a policy that we have part of the aim was to unify the policy across the partnership so that all three councils in the partnership were working from a similar or the same policy to start with and then bring the policy up today but obviously people have noted our comments and we'll see how it goes from there okay the report sorry if i make the report does in fact illustrate that there are different sorry it always happened to my voice shouting at my husband i think um they there are um three different councils and with our demographics are not the same and you know they tell us that yes for a fact everybody happy we move on yeah thank you thank you rachel for joining us you don't have to watch the next bit thank you so um the second item of business this evening is the joint scrutiny of the partnership enviro crime enforcement contract report which is on page 55 of the agenda and will be presented by councillor scoot um the we've been asked to note the attached report but also on page 66 there are um 13 recommendations which we need to look at so thank you councillor scoot thank you mr chairman um basically the partnership entered into an agreement starting in 2023 with a company called kingdom to help deliver the environment crime policy this included being seen on the streets uh cleaning up uh fly tipping etc but also cctv operation the um contract is due to finish uh next year it was a three-year contract with the option of a two-year buy-in uh the committee was asked to look at the um benefits of it uh whether we're getting value for money how it was working with all the stakeholders uh i'm happy to report that boston borough council actually came out very well with this but i think this was due to the fact that we already had a tie up with kingdom before it was entered into by the two councils um we took comments from the various portfolio orders from the three councils uh reviewed what was going going on um recommendations we've made include uh better use of education better use of the media to actually sing about successes that kingdom make um we did have a slight concern because the kingdom let us know that they sometimes had a problem with retention of staff and we wanted to make sure that when they were actually training new staff we actually got value for money uh with the three staff working in the council or the four or the other three uh so that we actually had people working independently rather than two people covering the same area um but that i think has in in the whole been addressed um really it's a case of you sort of going through the recommendations we've made and myself or uh rebecca will try and actually answer them for you thank you mr jim councilor reyzer thanks for that david very good um i just wondered i kind of get my residence and myself particularly to uc fix my street app how does that get reported in does this kingdom receive any information from that because obviously that's a reporting of fly tipping and and other antisocial behavior you want me to respond to that yeah i just um i'm here as a lead officer for the committee but obviously this is a my portfolio working area so um i'm happy to comment so the fix my street app is a county council app it's not it doesn't belong to any of the three district councils if you if you wish to report fly tipping then the appropriate way is to report it through the relevant council's website um not not using fix my street because that that won't send your flight tipping complaint to the right agency so yeah it's important just to follow the the um information that's on each council's website thank you for that i've um i surely in the last couple of years um advise residents that the fix my street app is a good way because for it does seem to have fly tipping removed in a in a fairly short space of time so it must get reported to boston borough council i was just wondering whether you then relate that to kingdom as far as and fly tipping in that sense it may well ultimately find its way to the council um because well it it's it's either been reported by somebody else directly to the council or eventually that fix my street um entry will get redirected to the borough council because it's not a county council issue but the most efficient way and the quickest way you'll get action is to report it directly to the relevant council that way you can be assured that the council will deal with it um promptly and efficiently thank you philip thank you philip thank you just speaking on council results sorry excuse me um comment about fix my street um as i retired county council so um i really very very very early on i made sure that all my residents were aware of how to use fix my street and one of the important things is if they want to get feedback then it's no use being anonymous you must be prepared to put in an appropriate email address but i've never had you know in all my time using it i've never had any issues with it and my residents haven't ever indicated either so i think it's perhaps this lack some people that they want to remain anonymous but um i don't think anyone's going to to um be worried about that and um i know the frustration of having um you know a resident say well well that's the street lights never on but i say to them well please will you look at it in daylight and tell me the number of it because if you don't know the number of the street light and it's it's dark then you can't read it so residents do have to help themselves and i hope that they can be appropriately advised by the county or borough councillor as may be country's on uh yeah thank you for that and and i would say that modern generations look to ease of use and i i understand what's being said about the fix my street apt but to come along and actually see a bed mattress dumped at the end of your turning you can take a photograph and at the same time enter it onto the fix my street app on your mobile phone and off goes the report now i understand that it might take time but maybe we should be looking at developing a fix my street boston act that we can then put out to our residents so that it's a much more quicker method than emailing the the correct boston borough council website yeah thank you councillor izzard yeah i mean you'll see the recommendations that there some of the recommendations are are based around how we can make it easier for residents to report in viral crime including the the suggestion that you've you you've made directly there around how they can do so by uh i suppose emulating the fix my street app and that's something that's one of the recommendations that i think is recommendation three particularly um where we recognize that we're not perhaps as good as we can be and there's some best practice out there not only within the districts but in within the county councils that we can look to emulate to improve our systems so um thanks for those comments can't look good i use um a website called clear waste that's here and i simply take a photograph of the waste as you suggested that i do um and i report the fly tipping using this or whatever you call it i don't know what do you call something like this an app an app yeah an app using this app um and generally speaking it's clear within about 48 hours and i get a report to the effect that it's been cleared and that borough i get an immediate notification the borough council's been notified and then within 48 hours i generally get a notification that the waste has been cleared now i have no idea how that system works but it works incredibly well and i can report waste uh in fishtoft or freeston if i'm walking the dog i can report waste in the town centre it gives you a map and you can sort of move your finger to move you move the map so that you can actually specifically pinpoint exactly where the waste is so that clear waste app is really really good and it does go to boston borough council but i know nothing more about it than that um just just moving on to my next point which is really i i know that there's a reference to um to clean streets um officers receive good intelligence allowing operation clean streets i wonder whether or not there's any possibility given that we've got boston 400 coming up to extend the the role of the enforcement officers to get getting the wheelie bins off the street or to have some serious investigation into why we are still having wheelie bins left on streets this has been a problem issue for me probably for the last 10 years and it's never been satisfactorily resolved and i do think with boston 400 coming up and hopefully lots of tourists coming off boston railway station the last thing they want to be met with is a is a collection of different colored plastic bins uh it does detract very much from the appearance of boston you know as a tidy uh and a very very proud historical market town so um i think that maybe could be included in something like this if at all possible so yeah just to just to add one more point um i was thinking back two weeks ago when i reported some vegetation overgrowth from network row and of course they're very complex to try and contact uh it's not like contacting boston borough council which is quite easy but again you're using the fix my street app i then got a report back saying that it was being forwarded on to the relevant department and then i got an email from network rail saying that they've they've inspected the site and work will be done and lo and behold actually work was done which was even more amazing so um whilst we shouldn't this the the fix my street app because for other bodies and other reporting strategy mechanisms whilst we have got one we could use for boston borough council there are other bodies and and areas including the nhs should you have any any items on the nhs that that may well be a useful tool to use count thrusting um i don't know whether um christian can answer the question i'm going to ask we know that certain parts of the town thinking of wheelie bins um i mean i've got a road like that um which is um you know terraced houses turn of the last century um and in my case they're backing onto the river but the street is narrow the footways narrow um and i think somewhere in town itself we we've had this discussion about probably in councilor gilbert's um sort of area but it is an agreement of where do those um residents put their bins to be emptied rather than just on the narrow street um some some some sometimes a situation where they can that there's some blank land you know empty land at the end but you know what we as a borough since we do use wheelie bins as distinct from our neighbors south holland who i don't think do yet do they no um but um you know have we really turned our attention to what what those houses that are those terraced houses with very very little leeway um you know what what they should be doing how can we make it easier for them um councillor gilbert yeah i mean just just to sort of segue to conversations into into one um hopefully one discussion around edi we've been talking about edi equality diversity and inclusion um and yet the people who are most impacted by wheelie bins on narrow streets are disabled people and there's also some um um um there's also some legislation called the disability discrimination act where local authorities and others are supposed to do an impact assessment on various aspects of policy well i mean if we were to do an impact assessment on our streets we would find that we weren't meeting the obligations under the disability discrimination act because our streets are littered with huge great plastic bins to make it almost impossible for disabled people or for mothers with or fathers with push chairs to easily navigate their way down the street so you know i mean it just highlights how you know one policy is has a nice aspirational uh air to it but then when you drill down into the reality of what happens on the ground you feel that things aren't actually being done the way they're supposed to be done so maybe we need to sort of look at the uh disability discrimination act in relation to bins on streets to fulfill our obligations under our edi policy um so the contract was mobilized on the 1st of march 2023 for a three-year term and that's why we're kind of reviewing it do we know um over those three years what the return back to the council i see that 90 is retained by kingdom and the council retained 10 but have we got any statistics to show in year one year two and year three becca thank you i mean the um the financial return from the contract was one of the areas that the task and finish group scrutinized across the uh across the three councils so that that was something that was was looked at the the contractual arrangement is is that the kingdom retained 90 of the income from fpns and the fixed penalty notices and the three councils retain their retain 10 of that i don't have the have those figures in front of me i don't think they're in the report they'll obviously be historic from when we looked at uh it's something that is changing month on month isn't it um i can certainly provide that information if that if that would be of interest but we're just a bit of a risk i think chairman here sort of moving away from the the um i'm i'm more than happy to talk about waste fly tipping to any members at any time but um just remember that the the reason we're here is to is to look at the recommendations of the task and finish group uh and particularly just to sort of agree those recommendations and we're at risk of of straying into all sorts of areas of waste and fly tipping and um by all means contact me outside the meeting but perhaps during the meeting today isn't the time and place which was bringing me on to what i was going to say next so look we've got these 13 recommendations i'm just going to go through the numbers if anybody wants to comment on an individual recommendation in any way if you would if you object to it in any way so we've got recommendation one through page 66 for everybody yep we've got recommendation one recommendation two recommendation three recommendation four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen so in general we're happy with these recommendations yeah and we're happy therefore and can i thank the councillors from the three councils who took part in the target and finish group here this is i think what an example again what we need to be starting looking at which is bottom up development of policy and recommendations so i think it was a good report um i think it achieved what it wants i thank the officers for a nice clear report and we noted report and we agree with the recommendations everybody happy with that which now brings us on to the last item on the agenda which is the work pro thank you chairman appreciate your your words uh with regards to the previous item thank you and i'll pass that on to my colleagues um that were part of that process um yeah the uh work program is shown on page um 69 and 70. it's bringing together the um the work that was formally um scheduled to come through uh emp committee as was and c and c committee as was um it's there for you all to see that's that's the the program we've got a got ahead of us um i wasn't going to say anything more chem but i know you've got something some comments you'd like to add so just um before we get go into this um for the last two years i've had in this sort of june july time uh an informal workshop for members of scrutiny and in truth for any members of the council um where you we yeah we're not on live stream you know no questions are silly questions and we can talk together and go through things we want to look at um issues within our ward and stuff like that and start to develop because what i want to see is a more bottom-up program for us because most of the work on here is performative we're looking at things that we've looked at previous years we're taking things through i'm not saying we shouldn't look at them but i think we do need to be generating and looking much more bottom up now i've got two items i would like you to consider for the work program at the moment we've all seen the emails about the police's peel report so this is the report that's a bit like an ofsted report for the police um i think now for the third occasion lincolnshire police hasn't come out of it particularly well and i am wondering whether we would like to invite the chief constable here to address the issues and say what is going what he plans for going forward and we'll be able to ask questions about our concerns if people are happy with that i would like to to add that to one of our meetings in the next few months obviously we'll have to fit in to agree with his timetable but now we've got monthly meetings and we're alternating the day so people aren't sort of frozen out if they have a thursday community so so hopefully we should be able to get in there the other issue i have and this is in my ward is if you know the junction of south end and john adams way from the skerbeck side by the traffic lights well that constantly floods lightest bit of rain and there's a enormous puddle now i've been contacted by a few constituents who have been in touch with highways and basically highways have come back and said they're not prepared to fix it well i think it's the cars they're not here they're not now i'm concerned about that obviously as a ward member now this isn't necessarily a thing for scrutiny what i'm wondering is if any of you equally have issues with highways not responding not doing things i know previous years we've had issues with like the cutting of the vision splays for junctions has been an issue where this has not been done i'm just wondering whether other people have issues they would like to address it and whether it would be worthwhile for us to ask highways you know to send somebody along to ask them questions and explain their policy why they don't think they're going to repair this thing thank you council gilbert i just come in on that i think i absolutely agree with you i think there are lots of areas where linkage county council's highways team are letting the um letting the borough down uh i'm sure it's all about resources and it's about you know how many staff they've got and all the rest of it but one particular thing that exercises me around the town centre in both my ward and in station ward as well uh is the state of the traffic islands and the state of the roundabouts and in particular the state of the sutton roundabout which you could class as the gateway to boston and it's absolutely deplorable uh i don't know when the last time it was timed up down there or the verges were cleaned or the roundabout was sort of cleared of moss but it's absolutely dreadful and it gives a very very core impression of boston when people are arriving uh in this part of um lincolnshire so is there a general consensus you're happy for us to ask highways to come along and then mostly we need to do the questions in advance but so for them my two things um councillor austin you've got a completely new set of county councillors representing the boston borough so why not give them something to do so to think about well to think about yes i know councillor saviki and you had something you'd like to raise i was thinking is it possible to scrutinize licensing application forms or system how they work and planning permission system as well wardings as when i've been on a licensing i just feel that people don't understand the bits would that be possible to do any changes for to scrutinize and go through procedures so this isn't looking at decisions this is just literally you know how accessible the system and fix my street as well actually would be nice if possible is that another edi matter there possibly i suppose um is there have you got a bit more detail about exactly what it is about planning and licensing that you you want to scrutinize just so i understand a little bit more uh probably i would start with obligation forms what sorry obligation forms yeah one case yeah yeah the form the system you know the forms we use and things yeah you know for yeah are they user friendly are they you know crystal mark and user friendly and things like this yeah yeah yeah so around to the making the um licensing process uh more accessible is easier to use yeah and the application for planning and and planning okay yes this is general terms and access accessibility to services yes i just i just feel that we're losing money there especially with the planning of uh applications as i've been there myself and i know lithuanians and i think it's quite difficult to go that way so if it's possible could we do scrutinizing any changes or anything about that on our work program make sense yeah yes it does make sense thank you yes for that clarification uh yeah sounds like a a you know a possible topic for scrutiny yeah i mean there may there may be different ways that you want to scrutinize that maybe maybe through um task and finish for a working group or even a uh uh an all members briefing yeah but um you know there there may be a topic the topics that we can certainly i mean i mean if we could just have maybe a general quick report to start with just on the sort of all these at the moment that we've got them to look at and stuff and then maybe we can look at a task and finish group or something similar then to look at them sort of thing yeah i'm happy to work with with you lena and with with you chairman to to sort of scope something up they just need to be clear to the to the um assistant directors that we need to provide that report exactly what it is we're asking for so maybe it's a conversation we can have outside of this meeting we can get our heads together and and and scope out a little bit more exactly what you want and i can and i can ask the the relevant ad's to to support that process just have a think yeah yeah yeah thank you um councillor gilbert just as i was you know we've mentioned this evening in relation to uh edi and in relation to the disability discrimination act and the bins on the streets and the impact of those bins on people with push chairs and the disabled i wonder whether or not we could go back and actually properly do something about this bins on streets issue try and nail down exactly why it is we have so many bins on streets what sort of remedial action we could take like issuing bin bags for example or indeed what longer term issues we could perhaps deploy such as reopening the alleyways that used to run along the back of those terrace cottages which have now been blocked by various tenants and landlords which makes it impossible to move your bins back and forth from the roadside uh to your backyard to actually bring me what i was about to say which was i will wonder whether you were interested in scoping out a task and finish group and then we could bring that to the workshop and look at uh doing a task and finish group on on that street furniture thing and answers and look what other councils do and things we can we can have a look at that i mean i think we need to um i mean it may require some officer time maybe knocking on doors maybe speaking to residents um looking at the rear of people's yards finding out what when the when the yard was blocked up making access impossible because it comes basically comes down to that when i first moved here you know people move their themselves around the backs and the fronts of their properties quite easily but then over time since about the year 2000 they've slowly got blocked off but i'm going to be able to do it um to have a chance to do it um you know that i think that you know no can i i was just going to help really um or hopefully help um i think your suggestions are uh a good ones and i think probably um scoping and discussing it outside of the committee meeting is probably a good place to start through this through this workshop session you're proposing there are you'll know as members that there have been cons there's some considerable changes coming down the track in terms of waste collection um next year with food waste um coming coming on stream next april with uh you know we're buying a whole new refuse freighter fleet um the revised policies around collection of sideways i think there'll be ample opportunity i think during the development of those services for members to contribute and to influence and help shape those services uh either formally through scrutiny um or or well or or through um the the the governance processes of vary of reports going through cabinet etc so um yeah there was just really that that caveat i suppose because i know that service are hugely stretched in terms of making significant changes to waste collection arrangements obviously not only in boston but also this isn't so much waste collection arrangements though isn't it it's where people keep their bins and clearing the bins from the street and i accept that it is connected but at one level it isn't quite the same issue but i was saying like if we if that would could be something we could look at at the workshop and then i think trying to think out ways when you know more freely about what things we do with that yeah if we could if we could arrange a meeting then to talk about that but i mean i also think as well that if we are going to be opening up the alleyways at the back there's probably going to be some um some financial implications for the various residents or the landlords of the properties and it may be some of this town deal money that we've got that we've got some flexibility to spend creatively might actually assist us to enable those alleyways to be reopened i don't know i mean it seems to if we've got money coming in we might as well use it to improve the overall appearance and amenity of the town and that's one very important way of doing it you know to find a way of providing some resources for people so they can open up the alleyways at the back of their properties and start using their bins in the way that um you know they're supposed to be used rather than leaving on the streets all day and all night councillor welbury i was just following on what exactly what christian said i know you're very keen on pre-scrutiny chairman and uh with the waste and changes coming in it seems to have because where are you going to keep these ways they will have waste i think that's one of the one of the topics on the workshop we could use that as one of our first pre-scrutiny and make a real difference and then um finally from me um there's been added to the um long-term sort of plan of work uh the forward plan um on the beginning of may a um issue of sorry i've now lost it um um a plan for neighborhoods so this is um a report that's going to cabinet about if i understand it you know the 20 million pounds that we're getting now i think that should come to us before it goes to cabinet assuming it is a proper it's not just some sort of small updatey thing because it's not very clear on the forward plan what it is but it actually is a if it's a full report thing i think that needs to come to us in june before it goes to cabinet in july with clarification i mean is that money being allocated by the town deal board or is that something that we've got some influence over deciding about i i think i think that's what um john burgess wants to come to this committee to to talk about in essence yes but i don't know all of the the details behind it i know it's um i know it's it's i know the funding scheme it's been renamed um but i think yeah i think john would appreciate the opportunity to come to this community committee and that two councils as well just to so i think that we did we do just try to look up yeah to get member support for what they're proposing to put forward as as as options for spending so people are happy with that councillors and for names yeah so if you um obviously if you you know search for boston borough council forward plan each month we issue a there's a forward plan and um yeah one of my sort of jobs as chair of this is to look at it but it's well worth looking at me now and then because things do get added and you know it's then obviously you know free if you're worried about something to flag it up me and the committee and then we can make sure it is coming into scrutiny but if everybody's happy with that i need nothing else to add um yeah christian if i may just make a comment i think we've got um just um be aware that um obviously we're we it's what a single committee that's working um this meeting um i think it's every month every two months every month so so there's going to be um constraints really on on the numbers of topics and the volume of work that we can just process as a team through through through the through governance in that time period and also just to be aware that there are some spare there's some standing reports that as a scrutiny committee we have to come through here statutory reports like the annual cctv report annual anti-social behavior report members will be familiar with those around around the table so there's some things already in the program we're meeting monthly so i accept that with the um the last item because it's going to cabinet in july it needs to come with some urgency but the other things obviously can be spread with a nice long running for staff i mean my i'm not looking to make extra work for staff but what i do want to make sure is that we end up a bit or not in the vision we were with the first item tonight where we're in fact yeah we're not really convinced by the report it's the true matter of it because we weren't really involved in its development that's rosting it's the true matter is it envisaged that a plan for neighborhoods would be mainly looking at the town itself or do you see it would also go into the into the parishes i genuinely don't know which is why i want it to come scrutiny yeah you know that i really i really want a nice you know overview and then just some idea what the hell was going on yeah so if people are happy with that counts raizard just the last bit on the previous discussion obviously this is a new kind of rollout for the boston and we did say i think that we would look after six months to make sure that this committee was working well um that everything was being scrutinized in time so if we get to the six month period and we feel that it's not working from both sides that's the time when we can we can discuss whether we go back to two committees or extend the time of each committee etc yeah everybody happy i close the meeting yeah i know things badly so i'm a chemical hygiene yeah right it's a lot of those brains are blocked like it's a lot of those things going through because they're shy down and it's coming down