Transcript

Before we start this meeting, I'll invite my chaplain, Mr Bill Townsend, to say prayers. Bill. Let us pray. Heavenly Father, we come to you today in the name of your son Jesus, with a sure confidence that as we pray in his name, you hear our prayers. We pray this morning for everyone here who have dedicated themselves to serving our lovely county of Lincolnshire, remembering also all who have faithfully served here in years past. We pray especially for those who have taken up their new responsibilities of counsellor. We thank you, Lord, for the commitment they have demonstrated. We ask that you will fill them with your wisdom and guide them with your presence as they seek to honour you in their service. Help them to follow the example of his son Jesus, who came not to be served, but to serve. Help them as they commit to serve with great integrity the communities you have placed in their care. Guide them that all their decisions made in this place may be to your approval and receive your blessing. We especially ask that as they carry out their duties, you will help them to show the same love that Jesus demonstrated in caring for those who are the most vulnerable in our communities. Please help them to be compassionate in providing for the hungry, the lost and the lonely. Father God, we now bring to you the prayer Jesus taught us. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, ever and ever. Amen. Please be seated. Thank you, Bill. I'd just like to go through some housekeeping with you, first of all, before we start the meeting proper. The proceedings of this meeting will be live-streamed and recorded. Please note there is no fire drill or fire alarm test planned. In the event of the fire alarm sounding, please leave by the nearest fire exit and make your way to the car park at the front of county offices. Members should be mindful that the high-performing loop system is sensitive to any type of noise in the chamber. Ambient sound from the chamber immediately prior to meetings and during open session may be picked up by the loop. And therefore, councillors should conduct private conversations outside of the chamber the loop will be muted at the close of the meeting. If a member would like to speak, they should raise their hand so it can be clearly seen by the chairman. Request to speak will be monitored by Democratic Services and managed by the chairman with the assistance of the chief executive. When the chairman invites you to speak, you should press the button on your microphone unit to make it live. Please speak directly into the microphone and press the button again to switch it off once you have finished speaking. We now move to the order of proceedings. The election of chairman of the county council 2025-26. I would like to invite nominations for the election of chairman. Can I have a proposer, please? Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you, Chair. I'd like to nominate Councillor Bunning. Thank you. Is there a seconder? Councillor Gibson. Thank you, Chairman. It gives me a great pleasure to second that. Thank you. Are there any other nominations for chairman of the council? None seen. All those in favour, please show. Anyone against? Any abstentions? Just note them. Thank you. I'm delighted to announce that the name of the new chairman is Councillor Steve Bunney. So I would invite Councillor Bunney to move to the top table and sign the declaration of acceptance of office, which will be handed to him by Emily. Congratulations. I would like to take this opportunity to thank my predecessors, Eddie Strangold and William Gray for their services as chairman and vice-chairman of Lincolnshire County Council over the last year. I would also pay tribute to those councillors who have not returned to the chamber for this cycle. Whilst politically we did not always see eye to eye, I will miss their contributions, knowledge and experience that they brought to the chamber. On behalf of the residents of Lincolnshire, I would like to thank them all for their service in the chamber and for all the case work and community work that they have undertaken in their respective divisions over the years. As community-minded individuals, I am sure that they will continue to serve residents in every way that they can. I see my role as chair of the council under two distinct headings. Civic, acting as an ambassador for the county, attending and on occasions hosting events to showcase the numerous examples of good works, business, educational opportunities, etc. that this great county has to offer. To this extent, I will endeavour to visit as many parts of our great county that I can and look forward to learning about the best-kept secrets that as yet have not winged my way to market raisin. Presiding over meetings and council business is the second function. The new four-year cycle commences with many unknowns and potential challenges. The relationship between Lincolnshire County Council, the new post in Greater Lincolnshire Mayor, and the new combined mayoral authority. Local government reform. And not least, a shift in the political balance of this council. The role of chair is to ensure members of all political persuasions have the opportunity to air their views and contribute to formal debates and questions where appropriate for decisions and decision-makers to be scrutinised and hold to account. At all times, following the proceedings outlined in the standing orders and established conventional practice of this council. Experience as a member of this and other chambers elsewhere, and as a teacher suggests this will not always be plain sailing, but with consistency and common sense, good practice will prevail. Finally, not to get my manners, I would like to congratulate all members, old and new, on their recent election of the 2025 council, and look forward to working with, or perhaps against you, over the coming years. I would like to now present Eddie Stegall with a badge of office to commemorate his time as chair of this council. Thank you. I now ask Eddie Stegall if he'd like to say a few words. Thank you, Chairman, and congratulations again. My thanks to Bill Toynton for his service as my chaplain over the years. Thank you, Bill. Very grateful to you. I would like to wish the new Chairman, Councillor Stephen Bunney, and Vice Chairman, Councillor Mike Beecham, well for their term of office during the ensuing year. I took over as Chairman of the Council in May 2024, and I've had a very special year serving as Ambassador of this County Council in this wonderful county. I've had many highlights, including the installation of the new Dean of Lincoln, the reburial of Matthew Flinders in his original birthplace, Dunnington, Lincolnshire, who found and named Australia, and most recently, the VE80 commemorations when I attended a moving service in the Cathedral. At the start of my term of office, I shared my wishes in wanting to support two charities, both of which I personally hold dear to my heart, Macmillan Cancer Support and Blind Veterans UK. I held a charity golf day at Blankley Golf Club back in October, which was hugely successful and very well supported, and I'm delighted as I stepped down as Chairman, I've been able to donate almost £3,000 to each charity. I take away many happy memories, not just as my time as Chairman, but also a member of Lincolnshire County Council, representing the Birchwood Division. It has been a pleasure to work with fellow politicians and officers of this Council, and in particular, I would like to thank Rachel Wallace for her wonderful support as Civic Officer over my year as Chairman and the preceding year as Vice Chairman. Thank you, Rachel. And commiserations to my colleagues who lost their seats, and congratulations to those that are still here. Thank you very much. Thank you, Eddie. I would like to now ask if there's any other councillors who wish to make a statement. Councillor Davies. Thank you, Mr Chairman, and congratulations, Councillor Bonny, to your election as Chairman. Thank you. Councillor Strangle, Eddie, it's 20 years ago since we first met where you very kindly allowed me to buy you a beer in the Lincolnshire Shire Oaks Hotel Bar in Sleaford. Despite the fact that the hotel has subsequently been demolished, we've been friends for a long time, and you've done me the great honour of letting me buy you beers in a variety of places across Lincolnshire, to which I'm eternally grateful. You have been an outstanding councillor. I know we say this a lot, don't we, we talk about people doing great and good works. And, forgive me, Councillor Collier, you've successfully taken over Birchwood, but can I reassure you, and I'm sure you know this already, there has been no better friend for Birchwood than Councillor Strangle. I'm pretty convinced if you were to cut his arm off, something would come out about Birchwood. He's done an outstanding job, to the point where many of us, when we were in the benches you now occupy, particularly on the front row, used to get a little bit tired of hearing from him, because he was so obsessed and focused on delivering, be it the community centre, the group that he chairs down there in terms of work they've done around sheltered housing and accommodation in the park. Outstanding work. And I have to say, just to finish off, Mr Chairman, I think in the chair, to coin the modern parlance, Councillor Strangle, Eddie did a fantastic job. As an ex-military man, like myself, who didn't serve anywhere near as long as Eddie did, he's done an outstanding job in, at some times, kind of, how should I say, controlling the rabble, if you'd forgive me for that turn of phrase. Unfortunately for our group, Eddie stays on as a supporting member of the team, so I don't think it's going to be any easier to get money out of him. And I guarantee, it's in the last time, I'll end up footing him a beer or two. But thank you very much, and congratulations to you and everybody. Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to speak? Councillor Dilks. Thank you very much. Congratulations to you, Steve. And in fact, to all members who got returned, whether new or old, in the elections. I do thank Eddie Strangle. We didn't always agree either, Eddie, but I did respect your service. Not just a Birchwood, of course, but also as chair of the council in the past year and previously vice, but also I know of the work that you did over a number of years as pensions chairman. That is really unheralded work, but it was very important, what you did. I thank you, chairman, new chairman, for saying what you said about previous members who didn't make it back here. And following, at the first group leaders meeting of the new council, following the elections, I noted that many long-serving county councillors with proud records of service to their communities had been voted out of office. That happens. That happens. That's democracy. Those who chose to retire and not stand again, of course, had been recognised with presentations, small presentations, before the close of the previous administration, if I could put it that way. And at that meeting, I did suggest a letter of thanks, together with a certificate of service, should be sent to each former councillor who was not successful in the elections. And I'm pleased to say, and I really thank the chief executive for actioning that, and I believe that we're asking that letter today as group leaders to those members. On another point, if I may, chairman, last time we elected a chairman of the council who was not a member of the ruling group, the councillor involved was required to stand down from their political group whilst holding office. Can you give that same assurance that you will follow that same procedure and stand down from your political group as long as you are chairman? Thank you. Thank you. It has not been asked for me to do that. I'm obviously in the chair here as a neutral person, though my views will remain the same, and there are times when I will obviously consult with my group. And that is the way forward that, as far as I'm concerned, I have not, at this stage, resigned from the group in any way whatsoever. I hope that is clear to you, and it was not made condition for me to do that, so I'll be carrying on in the way that I have always done and intend to do so. I believe now that councillor Lee would like to say something. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chair. Before I start, I would add to what Phil had said as well. I was Mayor of Lincoln in 2012, and it was a requirement that I stood down and wasn't a chair, because at that point I was a chair of a council committee, and I had to stand down from that and be non-political. But I would echo the sentiments about Eddie Strangle, all the things that Phil has said, our group, wish you nothing but well for your retirement. And I'd like to say as well about the people who haven't come back, most particularly for me, Trish Bradwell. I really like Trish, and I really miss her, and I wish everybody well. Politics is absolutely brutal, and I've been there. I know that. So, good luck to everybody for their retirement. Thank you. Thank you, councillor Lee. Is there anybody else wishing to speak at this stage? In which case, we'll move on to the appointment of the vice chair of the county council 2526. I'd like to invite nominations for the appointment of vice chairman. Councillor McGonigal. Thank you, Mr Chair. I would like to nominate Councillor Mike Beauchamp. Thank you. Is there a seconder? Councillor Roberts. Thank you, Mr Chair. I would also like to second Mike Beauchamp. Thank you. Thank you. Have we got any further nominations for the post-advice chair? In which case, I'll take it to the vote. Those in favour? Thank you. Thank you. Those against? Any abstentions? Thank you. The appointment is confirmed. So, I'd like to invite Councillor Mike Beauchamp to sign the acceptance of office. It now gives me pleasure to invest, Councillor Beauchamp with the vice chairman's chain of office. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Now, the housekeeping has been carried out. Can I now invite Councillor Mike Beauchamp to say a few words? Thank you. I did promise that I would keep laying it. I want to work for it. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Beauchamp. Now, moving on, apologies for absence. Can I ask Andrew Crookham, Deputy Chief Executive, to announce any apologies, please? Yeah, thank you, Mr Chairman. We've had apologies for absence from Councillor Bamford, Councillor Mrs Brockway, Councillor Cook, Councillor Ed Goose-Zagorski, and Councillor Hassan. Thank you. Thank you. Those are noted. Right. Moving on again, the declaration of councillors' interests. Do any councillors have any interests that they wish to declare? If later on in the meeting you feel that you need to, you always have that opportunity to do so. Okay, thank you very much. So, we now move on to the minutes of the meeting of the County Council held on the 21st of February, 2025. I'd like to remind members that we are here approving the minutes for accuracy only, and the content of the minutes is not for debate. I move that the minutes of the minutes of the minutes of the minutes of the meeting of the County Council held on the 21st of February, 2025, be approved as a correct record and signed by the Chairman. All in favour? Point of order, check. Can people who weren't here actually approve minutes? Apparently they can. I did check that earlier, but thank you for bringing the matter up. All those in favour? Thank you. That is carried. Point of order. Thank you. Do I need to stand? I believe you do, Councillor Baxter. Thank you. Congratulations on your role. Counting votes against and abstentions. I'm sorry. I beg your pardon. I just assumed as the majority were there and this was on the acclimation, could we do that? If you would like us to count the votes, I'm sure we can do so. If you'd like us to. Sorry, I'm not saying count the votes. I'm saying request. Okay. Well, if you would like me to do that, I will quite happily go back. Or are you happy for me to do it? But in future, I'll make sure that we do it, if that's okay with you. Right. Moving on to item seven, Chairman's Announcements. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. engagements to report on so that is your fall for today if I can now move on then to item 8 Lincolnshire County Council return of persons elected first of May 21st 25 a report by the deputy chief executive and executive director has been of resources has been made and circulated that the return of persons elected following the Lincolnshire County Council elections on the 1st of May 2025 are set out in appendix a to the report to be noted can I assume is there anyone against that so I take it as read already done so but it gives me also pleasure again just to make sure that we are all congratulation for all your successes on the 1st of May and your election as councillors to this great council I'd like to now move on to the review of the Constitution a report by the monitoring officer has been circulated do I have a proposer and a seconder councillor Matthews thank you mr chairman I move this agenda item okay do you wish to say any more or was you just on that no okay thank you so do I have a seconder council Gibson thank you mr chairman I second that okay so we have received two amendments by the conservative group and we're going to take these separately the first one we'll vote on it and then we will move on to the next one according to how that vote goes so first of all can I ask have we got a proposal for the amendment one councillor Carrington thank you very much indeed chairman and can I add my congratulations on your appointment to what I'm sure will be a very successful chairmanship chairman members I move the amendment as set out in the order of proceedings it's a memorable Friday morning this the start of a new council term and for many people in the chamber the start of their role as councillors but I'm reminded of another Friday not so very long ago it was the afternoon I was with other councillors in a team's meeting and one by one phone calls came in and people started dropping out and then I took a phone call and I dropped out of the meeting and the phone calls were about flooding and of course that was the Friday as you will remember chairman when storm Babette struck for my part I went down to the nearby village of Hayington in my waterproofs and I was there really deep into the night and for most of the next three days we saw the school flooded out we saw homes flooded out we saw businesses flooded out damaged properties damaged lives the high street was a river the sound of pumps and the sound of crying and I share that memory to underline that this is not a dry constitutional debate this is about lives and livelihoods it's about hopes and fears and expectations of our residents now everybody's seen the amendment it was circulated in advance I'm really just going to make three hopefully fairly brief points as to why I think the flood and water management committee which I refer to as F&W should be retained first it brings people and bodies and organizations together that's one of the big problems dealing with flood risk the disparate nature of all the different organizations involved in it it was a unique and still is at the moment a unique lens to focus efforts and for LCC to exercise leadership dealing with worsening flooding isn't just about finance and technical solutions challenging though those are it's also about getting a web of complex relationships to work better those relationships were forged and sustained in F&W and abolishing it will massively reduce this council's influence and silence the voices of others which should be heard second it was an active not a passive committee flood risk is changing and the way we deal with it also needs to change for example the storm impact report produced by F&W had the authority to bring all the necessary witnesses and the skill to produce an action plan to deliver change for our residents and thirdly flowing on from that expertise that committee was a focus both from members and from officers a unique repository of knowledge experience contacts built up over the years but here's the point resulting in better outcomes experts government ministers regional authorities they all respected F&W they contributed to its efforts and now chairman we're in a situation where all of this is apparently to be thrown away and I have to ask the chamber why for what benefit we will we will lose focus and priority on an area which is a vital interest to our residents it will weaken coordination and it will undermine hard-won public trust now this is a political organization and reform has won absolute majority in this chamber it can force through what it wants to force through but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should and by definition our new members have not had the opportunity to spend much time digging into and understanding the role of this council as lead local flood authority or indeed the part played by the flood and water management committee so I ask why the rush surely it would make more sense to keep it at least temporarily and take time to understand more deeply the actions and benefits and potential of that committee chairman as I said at the start this is not a simple matter of constitutional change it's about people's lives and this council's proud record of helping them protecting them and trying to build a better future F&W has already embarked on that task through the flood impact report in particular and abolishing it in the middle of its work will I believe send a dire message to the very people who have suffered so badly from flooding in the past and who look to us not for sound bites but for detailed programs of action to protect them from the scourge of flooding I don't think the people of Lincolnshire chairman will understand what is proposed today and so I move the amendment Thank you Thank you Councillor Carrington I'd like to now move on to ask for a second for the motion Councillor Martin Sorry Councillor Baxter Sorry I was indicating to second the motion Oh sorry I apologize I called Councillor Martin Councillor Martin Councillor Martin Thank you Yeah I'm happy to second that and I reserve my right to speak later in the debate Thank you very much We will now debate the amendment do I have any speakers Councillor Clarke Councillor Clarke Thank you chairman congratulations to you and the vice chair I was a member of the floods committee in which in-depth work was carried out by cross-party members It seems that reading today's paper as expressed by Councillor Carrington by deleting the committee and sending it to another committee When the flood of the threat of floods is greater than before is clearly a mistake and therefore will completely support the amendment of the Conservatives Thank you Thank you I've got the following three people wishing to speak in this order Councillor Davis, Councillor Hill and Councillor Baxter And then Councillor Lee And if anyone else will take that as usual So Councillor Davis Thank you chairman I'll keep it brief Colleagues you may have been told and this is no disrespect to the CD leadership team That this piece is about tidying up some administrative stuff Well all we need to do is tidy the constitution to make it a bit easier Now very often my advice to you would be listen to the senior team there I have to say I think on this exception and forgive me colleagues This is not the time to do that You know Councillor Oliver, Kurt Beyond Bain suffers terribly with flooding Councillor Roberts, Horncastle, Councillor Parkinson we know don't we Belton Lane unusually hit by terrible flooding 6th of January this year All of our areas are damaged by this And as my previous speaker and I'm pleased to be supported by colleagues whose seats we now occupy Apologies It's really important and this is something that your parish communities, your town councils will not thank you for taking your eye off the ball It does involve meetings, it does involve workload But I urge you to support this amendment because it makes a real difference to people's lives on a daily basis Stood there I'm sure in our Wellington boots It's not a place anybody wants to be Thank you Councillor Councillor Martin Hill OBE Thank you Chairman I'd just like to try and explain why it is important that we have This council has a stand-alone discrete flood and water committee As you're probably all aware we are the lead local flood authority which is set down in legislation I think since about 2015 The good news is that we are tasked with coordinating it The bad news is we were given no powers to enforce it Also we were given no money either So basically when we talk about flood defence it is a collective effort So it's not just the county council, it's talking to colleagues, environment agency, the drainage boards, angling water, utilities So there's a whole group of people there And the way we have done quite a bit of work recently in terms of raising the profile of having that Is we have a public meeting, often in this chamber actually currently, where all these agencies are invited And they all come and they listen in public And the public can listen to and they are held to account And the county council and our officers are also held to account To make sure we do what we can to prevent these floods Because whether you believe in net zero or not The truth of the matter is our climate patterns have changed And we seem to get sudden lumps of rain And at the moment of course we know we've had a drought now for two months So I'm afraid whatever you believe about net zero, this will happen again And it wasn't just about Storm Babette on the 6th of January I know many of our areas were flooded again And tragically I think many people were flooded for the second time And there's nothing worse I would argue than being flooded But being flooded twice is very depressing So I would urge councillors to think about this again And I think Councillor Carrington was dead right Let's look at this carefully You could say well it will all be part of the new environment committee I think there won't be time That committee has a lot of work to do in its own right In waste, environment, all sorts of things And I think it is very important we focus on this The public out there expecting us There are over a thousand Section 19 investigations ongoing Thousands of houses, hundreds of houses have been flooded And quite rightly the residents where they have been flooded Or are at risk of being flooded Look to this council to do what it can So my view is it will be a serious mistake To actually downgrade this in terms of scrutiny and oversight Thank you Thank you Councillor Baxter Thank you Thank you I'm the I'm the representative for Deepings East Which includes Market Deeping Which is Lincolnshire's first town As you approach from the south And also the villages of Gretford Which has been flooded twice in recent years And Tallington which has been flooded last year And Market Deeping and Deep and St James Which have also been flooded I'm also Double Hatter, a member of South Gesteven Where Billingborough has been flooded, Grantham's been flooded, Edenham's been flooded And there are floods all over And I don't need to get further out into the county Flooding is a massive issue Which we spend millions dealing with Or trying to prevent as lead flood authority That's one of our responsibilities And so if we want to hold that expenditure to account We need to have a flood committee As Councillor Hill has said We have over a thousand outstanding Section 19 reports Which are investigations into events where individual houses have had wet carpets And the impact on individuals is heartbreaking It's not an expensive, it's not only a hassle with insurance It is heartbreaking to see your home inundated with water I would like to hear from either Councillor Matthews Or someone from the administration Explain why this is a good idea Because I really, I don't understand it It's the only opportunity we get as councillors To meet with Anglin Water Who are shocking Environment Agency Who are underfunded But also shocking To meet with the internal drainage boards I don't know if you know much about internal drainage boards They are very good They are struggling along Funded by taxpayers Mostly via district councils And they do the best they can under the circumstances This is your opportunity to hold them to account Now you can say that we've got a committee to do that The Environment Committee But that Environment Committee has already got a heavy agenda If you want to talk about solar panels About overdevelopment of the landscape If you want to talk about refuse collection If you want to talk about how many different bins you've got That's for committee to do it But if you put flooding into it You won't have time to talk about anything else So for the sake of the residents of the villages I've already mentioned Please refuse this suggestion We need a flood and water management Another reason for doing it Is it is an opportunity to get district council colleagues in Who have experience on the ground Of dealing with flooding And it means that you can get those agencies Those councils to work together with us Because we're all on the same team Right, Councillor Baxter Could you bring your comments here Thank you very much Chair Thank you Councillor Lee Thank you Chair I want to endorse the comments by my colleague Councillor Clark He was the Labour member on Floods Committee And also those of Councillor Carrington Who I find to be really well informed about the subject The Labour group are proud of our record in this area People might remember that we brought a motion to Council in December of 2023 Which proposed a specific task force to tackle flooding And in February of this year at the budget meeting Along with the independence we brought an amendment Which set up the fund of a million pounds To specifically and quickly support those hit by flooding Because it can take a while to get things sorted out And we wanted some money there for those that were hit straight away So I completely agree with Councillor Carrington About the importance of bringing people together I don't know how many people remember But we had a meeting in February And I managed to get Emma Hardy Who was then the Shadow MP responsible And we had a really good meeting And I would agree with Councillor Carrington To bring that level of expertise together is important And the Flood Committee does exactly that So I'm going to be fully supporting this amendment And I would also stress to the Council The importance of tackling climate change As the primary cause of flooding And you know what Councillor Matthews It's not a party political issue And I said to you yesterday Is there any way that we can reconsider this We could defer it and look at it And I would really respectfully ask you If we can defer today and look at it And if you come back then and say Yep we still want to get rid of it Then I think I'd have more time for this decision Than I've got for it at the moment I think it's wrecked And I think it's wrong Thank you Thank you Councillor Thank you Councillor The Councillor Danny Brooks Thank you Mr Chairman I hear about everyone talking about downgrading the flood management We're actually upgrading it We're going to be meeting eight times a year instead of just four All the existing partnerships will be maintained and enhanced and reviewed So we're not downgrading the flood risk management Not going down to two meetings We're actually putting the environmental issue And we're upgrading it to eight meetings a year So I don't know where you're saying we're downgrading it If it was two meetings then I could agree But I think putting it with the environment committee Is the right thing to do because it's part of the environment Thank you Thank you Councillor Bowles Thank you Chairman and congratulations on your election Having served as your deputy for the last two years on the district council I know what an excellent job you will do in the chair I will be supporting this amendment As Councillor Lee just said I think it's too knee-jerk of a decision to be making And I would urge the administration to potentially defer this I heard what Councillor Brooks has just said About it going on to the environmental committee Having served for the last four years on the environmental scrutiny committee Our meetings typically lasted four hours So with all the workload that is already on that committee To put this workload on it as well You're just not going to have the level of in-depth discussion, debate Bringing partners to the table that currently exists You know I represent Gainsborough Hill You know Hill You won't think we suffer from a lot of flooding but we do And my worst experiences as a councillor have been sat in people's homes Listening to them cry and sob because their lives are ruined You know and we're not talking about you know massive storms the bits I'm talking about Ours have been let's call it man-made You know when the drainage system put in on new developments has not been up to scratch And people's homes are flooded yet through the work of this committee and the partnership working We've been able to bring those people to the table to solve some of these issues So the work that it's done for me as a councillor has enabled me to solve residents' problems So I just think this is a knee-jerk reaction and I would urge the administration to at least defer it And let's consider it in a bit more depth. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to call on Councillor Dilks Thank you very much Mr Chairman I think we all understand when a new administration comes into office They want to make a difference. I understand that I really think this is the wrong first thing and I join with colleagues who have said You know, please give it a little bit more time to think about it To make sure this is the right decision Because we are, as colleagues have said, we are the lead flood authority And I think the perception, I hear what a colleague here says But the perception is that it is a downgrade for flooding Whatever we say And at a time when we should be making flooding The response to flooding stronger, not weaker And I believe that the proposal does diminish the importance of the flood risk And it's not going to go away, we are going to get more flooding That's a fact You know, we have already seen, as colleagues have said The impact in, you know, the past couple of years Not just as Councillor Baxter says in the beautiful south I live on a river on the deepings, you know And we are constantly worrying about the flooding But we fortunately haven't had any lately But, you know, Tallenton, Gretford, Boston, Horncastle May I mention Councillor Matthews, you know Big issue there, wasn't it, you know And in the last budget, you know In the closing days of the last administration We brought, as Councillor Leah said An amendment to the Conservative budget To put an extra million pounds available That's not a lot, you know, frankly In the whole budget But it was, you know It was recognising the need to do more for flooding And for flood risk And to help those people who are, you know Have got their carpets floating down the street When it happens It's an absolute disaster I'm pleased, I am very pleased That the administration listened on that occasion And changed the budget And made that extra million pounds available And that's what I It's not often It's not often in this chamber I've seen the Lib Dems The Independents Labour All agreeing with the Conservative motion It doesn't happen that often Or it hasn't in the past anyway But I would urge you I would urge you as a new administration Please think about putting it on hold And then looking, you know In three months, six months, whenever To say, is this the right thing to do? Because at the moment I think the perception is going to be That we're downgrading flooding Thank you Thank you I'd like to ask Councillor Overton, MBE Thank you, Chairman Congratulations on your election And congratulations to everybody Who's been elected by residents And I think that's a huge vote of confidence And a vote of expectation as well The point that I think This is a pragmatic issue Where you have flooding What we Is hard to understand If you haven't been involved in depth And I know many of you have But is that flooding is not just one cause It's not just It can't be just one solution So it's not just a highway solution It's not just a planning solution It's not just drainage board It's not just angling water It's not just environment agency A single planning Sorry, a single flooding incident Can be Any of those Can be involved in the solution So the point is to try and get All of those people To a meeting On a regular basis So that you can tackle One second you're on the anglia water Next minute you're on environment agency You know, you've got them all together In order to resolve these solutions Having done that on the ground Or in my area Because it's similar With the drainage With the planning situation It wasn't properly done It is You've then got to ask Those people to turn up At a site And say Can I show you this problem Anglia water Environment agency These people Will they bother? The reason they do bother Is because they have been to that committee They know they are answerable You can go to the next meeting And say Look, they didn't turn up And they will be Certainly keen to turn up next time So by having these regular arrangements And because it's all in their diary They're there every time By those regular arrangements You create a relationship Which means that you can be very powerful On the ground And that's why I think this committee Is important To keep And to keep the focus Thank you Thank you Councillor Tom Dyer Thank you very much Chairman Congratulations to yourself And all the other members In the council For their election I'm not going to repeat What's already been said Chairman But this is a downgrading I can understand what the administration Are doing You're cleaning up the committee structure So that one committee scrutinises One portfolio holder That makes sense for most of the committees To be honest But this committee Isn't a normal scrutiny committee It's a committee that looks in depth As has been said At flood and water management You are downgrading it You're removing IDBs And district representatives From that committee Who take part And join the conversation In tackling an issue As Councillor Hill And Councillor Carrington have said We're the lead local flood authority But that doesn't come With all the extra powers That you might think It's all about partnership working And working together And that's what we did As a previous administration Bringing all of those together Around the table For flood and water management I've just come back On the point made by Councillor Brooks The Environment Committee Yes it may be meeting Slightly more But it's not just going to be Focusing on flood and water It has waste All of the performance data And much much more Within that agenda But specifically Specifically Councillor Brooks Even if it is meeting more Even if it is meeting more The representatives From outside bodies Are no longer a part Of that committee And that really Is the point that we've been Drumming home today And that I think Is what's been missed By colleagues opposite So what we're asking really Is for you to look again here Flood and water management Is absolutely An essential issue That we tackle I have flooding in Waddington Most colleagues around the chamber Have flooding And that was the forum Where we could come As members And we could discuss that Debate it And produce a report And I understand The recommendations From the flood and water management At the end of the last administration Was actually That that committee Should meet more Specifically Just on flood and water management issues So the new administration I don't think You're getting off To a good start At all With this proposed change And I ask you To consider it Again Thank you Thank you Councillor Corey Thank you chairman Congratulations On your new appointment And also your vice chairman I won't repeat What colleagues have already said They've said it eloquently And passionately And this is Sadly a proposal Made I would suggest Out of Inexperience Albeit For I would You know Suggest out of Good intentions But the wrong intentions And I would ask The members Opposite Please don't Disagree with us Because you think We're the opposition Listen to us Because we're speaking With many years Of experience Of dealing with this And being the voice Of our communities At three o'clock In the morning When they are Knee deep In flood water So please Don't do a disservice Of this magnitude To your communities On your first day Please support the amendment Thank you Thank you Councillor Martin I think you reserved Your right to speak Later Do you want to take that right Thank you Thank you As has been said Linkshire County Council Is a lead Local flood authority We manage Our effectiveness I urge you to support Our amendment Thank you Thank you I think everybody's had The opportunity to say So I'd like to now Invite Councillor Matthews As the proposal Of the substantive motion To give his right Of reply Thank you Mr. Chairman I take on board The comments That have been made By fellow councillors But please don't think For one second That we are downgrading Anything Anything You speak About the day That you were all In meetings And you got phone calls Councillor Kerrington I was there Clearing the floods I had my neighbours Walk round the corner Suitcases in hand Being flooded out From their home So don't Think that I am not Very very passionate About flooding I am I appreciate That it is a vital Part of this Council's work We will Work harder And more On flooding Than has ever been Done before We will have Eight meetings a year Instead of four Councillor Brooks Has years And years of experience In dealing With this Type of problem And I am sure That he will put Every minute That is needed Into looking after Flooding It doesn't matter Where it sits It sits Under environment Because that is What is causing Flooding And I accept Whether you think It's man-made Or just a cycle Of events It is still Affecting Our constituents We will not Neglect Flooding Let me assure you Of that But we have also Been elected On a mandate Of reducing Waste And on simplifying This council And we will do That And that is where This comes in We have been elected To make things simpler And save money And that is where This comes in Thank you Thank you Thank you I will now Move to the vote And I will make sure Three items are done So first of all All those in favour Of amendment one Sorry Can we have a recorded vote please If I run request Are there any other members We need up to 14 Before we can do that Can we show If you want a recorded vote 14 has been reached So it will be recorded vote I will now ask My colleague To call the roll Thank you chairman So we are now voting On the amendment one To the constitutional review That being the Proposed amendments To the flood scrutiny Subcommittee I will read out The name of each member In alphabetical order Would those voting For the amendment Say yes Those voting against Say no And those voting For the amendment Say no And those abstaining Say abstain So in order Councillor Arundel Councillor Baxter Yes Councillor Bean No Councillor Beecham No Councillor Bowles Yes Councillor Bridgewood No Councillor Danny Brooks No Councillor Jimmy Brooks No Councillor Bunnie Muste根 Councillor Carey No Councillor Carrington Yes Councillor Catton No Councillor Corey Yes Councillor Chapman Yes Councillor Cheyn No Councillor Christopher Yes Councillor Clarke Yes Councillor Cleaver Yes Councillor Clegg, Councillor Collier, Councillor Condell, Councillor Cullen, Councillor Daesh, Councillor Davies, Councillor Dilks, Councillor Dyer, Councillor East, Councillor Findlay, Councillor French, Councillor Gibson, Councillor Grantham, Councillor Hastings, Councillor Hill, OBE, Councillor Hulme, Councillor Kelly, Councillor Kendrick, Councillor King, Councillor Lee, Councillor Litchfield, Councillor Locke, Councillor Martin, Councillor Matthews, Councillor McGonagall, Councillor Murray, Councillor Oliver, Councillor Mrs Overton, MBE, Councillor Parkinson, Councillor Redfern, Councillor Reeve, Councillor Roberts, Councillor Bailey Robinson, Councillor Reuben Robinson, Councillor Rowe, Councillor Sheard, Councillor Smith, Councillor Sneath, Councillor Taylor, Councillor Mrs Vernon, Councillor Whittaker, Councillor Wimhurst, Councillor Woodruff, Councillor Woods, Councillor Mrs Woolley, Councillor Wright, Councillor flock in. The results of the votes 4-23 against 41, abstain one. The motion or the amendment is not carried. We will now move on to the second amendment, and I'd like to ask Councillor Willey to speak to that. Thank you, Chairman, and congratulations on your appointment. I'll take it that the amendment, as on the sheet, has been read, but I would just like to say that at a time when transparency, accountability, and public trust in our health services are more vital than ever, the structures that enable robust scrutiny must themselves be protected from undue influence. The Health Scrutiny Committee for Lincolnshire plays a crucial role in holding decision-makers to account, engaging with complex and often contentious issues that cut across party lines. Its effectiveness relies not only on the expertise of the members of that committee, but also on its perceived and actual independence. As such, any changes to its governance must be carefully examined for their impact on the committee's integrity and ability to serve the public interest. It's not broken. It doesn't need fixing. Thank you. Thank you. Do I have a second? Councillor Kendrick. I'm happy, Mr Chairman, to second it and reserve my right to speak later. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to now open the debate to the floor. Are we any speakers? Councillor Hill. Thank you. Thank you very much, Chairman. I'm very much in support of what Councillor Woolley and Councillor Kendrick have said. I think it's very important that in terms of partnership and collective working that the chairmanship of that particular committee remains with that committee. I just wanted to just address some other issues in terms of the changes to the Constitution, if I may. I think the first one is there is quite a bit about the new mayoral combined authority and the County Council's relationship with it. In particular, I refer to the concurrent powers which can be given by this Council and others to the new mayoral authority. I'm not really expecting an answer today. But what I would say, in theory, or in practice probably, there may be times when our leadership here at the Council, Councillor Matthews in particular, agrees actually to hand over some powers which the Council currently has, because we have the ability to hand that over. And it may or may not be the right thing to do. And although the mayoral combined authority will have its own scrutiny arrangements, I think the difficult question is how this Council, these members who have been elected to this Council, will have oversight and be able to understand and hear what's happening and be able to have a say on it. Because we are talking about a large partnership with the mayoral combined authority. I'm not sure what there is an easy answer, but I do believe that it would be, wouldn't be right for that just to happen and us to be told about, for example, the Key Route Network, which is a key decision which will have to be made by the new mayoral combined authority. So, I just would hope that some proposals will come forward from the leadership as how that will happen in future. The second thing is, I was quite interested in the new growth portfolio in terms of, I note that certainly in terms of commissioning and also in terms, and other things, they have now been, and property, that has now been put within the growth committee, which is a new committee. I think we have a point of order. Oh, I do apologise. Okay, sorry. Point of order. Point of order. Sorry, this is my first point of order, so tentatively going forward. I thought we were talking about health and I'd like to stick to that. We are. Okay. I think Councillor Hill was using this opportunity to make a point, but can we carry back to the health? I take your advice, Chairman, but I think I've only got one chance to speak. Well, that would be the only chance. If you want me to come repeat it all again, I will do, but I'm in your hands. I think if we could just very quickly take it to finish now and then we won't come back to it after this meeting. Okay. Thank you, Chairman. But I think I've made the points I wish to make. Okay. Is there anybody else wishing to speak, bearing in mind we're on the health? Councillor Lee. Thanks, Chair. I read this and honestly, rather than writing a speech, I could just stand here and repeat it word for word. I agree with every single word of it. People may know I was a nurse for 21 years. I worked in coronary care and I also nurse right the way through COVID. So I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to health care. And I just, the last paragraph says it all to me in light of the ongoing challenges in NHS delivery, workforce pressures and service reconfigurations across the county. It's more important than ever that this committee is allowed to function free from political control over its leadership. That's it. That's absolutely key. Because some people think politics doesn't come into health care, but of course it does. Privatisation of the NHS, which I'm vehemently opposed to, is political. Things like, I mean, there are people who think that COVID didn't really happen and that the vaccine was a bad thing. And I can tell you as someone who nursed through it for all those years, COVID really did happen. And if I hadn't have had the vaccine, I'd be dead now. So, you know, but people have those kinds of political views. And that's the point I'm trying to make. Health care really ought to be, it ought to be about the advice of the people who really know what's happening on the shop floor. It used to be really frustrating as somebody who was on the shop floor to sometimes have to live with some of the decisions people were making over our heads for all of those years. And I just, I just so, I cannot say how strongly I agree with this and I support every single word and I'll be voting for this amendment. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Kendrick. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'm pleased to hear that Karen Lee has supported the amendment. She worked in the health service for many years as I did. And I moved from one side of the fence to the other side of the fence when I joined the Health Scrutiny Committee some years ago. So I've seen how it functions and it functions very well. And I'm concerned about the disenfranchisement of the other organisations that are represented on that committee. It's a collective group. We share ideas. We challenge. And that should continue. And I think to have, as Karen Lee has said, Councillor Lee has said, it's a retrograde step, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you. In the absence of any other speakers, I'd like to ask Councillor Matthews if he would like a right of reply. I'll be brief on this one, but I'm glad that I'm uniting you all over that side. It's at least one positive to be taken from these debates. Look, I've heard the debates again, and I understand the passion that there is on this. But I want to remain parties. We're not taking these positions. It is not an act for us to control that committee. It is to share it around us. But it's just taking back control for Lincolnshire County Council. And that is the base of it. So, I have heard what you have to say, but I will be voting against this amendment. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like now to take the matter to the vote. Point of order. Can we have another recorded vote, please? I've had a proposal. Anyone else supporting the recorded vote? No, it's not enough, so that falls. So, all those in favour of the amendment. And all those against. Thank you. So, that is 23 in favour, 40 against, so the motion of the amendment falls. That takes us now to the substantive motion. As tradition, we will go straight to the vote on that. Mr Councillor Hill. I'm happy to do that, Jeremy. Obviously, I was, I think, quite rightly interrupted by Councillor Matthews. Am I allowed to finish? You can finish what you want. Thank you. I do appreciate that. If you're happy. I'm happy with that, yes. I don't want to delay proceedings too much. I suppose it was just the issue about, I'd like a sort of explanation as to, we've got this new growth committee, which of course isn't simplifying. It's adding more committees, although it is replacing. It's the issue of the, why it's considered important to have property and commissioning and other things within that committee. I'm just, hopefully somebody can explain the thinking behind it. Thank you. Right, likewise, Councillor Matthews, do you wish to come back on that at this stage? I thought that might have been one in my 45 minutes from you councillors over in that corner. It is again, from what we've been elected on, it is to simplify, try and reduce waste and make things more straightforward. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Right. So that takes us to the point of the vote. So I'd like to ask all those in favour. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All those against. And abstentions. Right. So the result is 4-41 against 21, one abstentions. And abstentions. Right. So the result is 4-41 against 21, one abstentions. And abstentions. Right. Right. So the result is 4-41 against 21, one abstentions. That means the substantial motion as published is carried. I'd like to now move on to item 10, the election of the leader of the council. In accordance with Article 5.3 of the council's constitution, the leader of the council is elected to the position of leader at the annual meeting of the council at the beginning of each four-year term. The leader will hold office until the next election of all councillors of the council unless the term is otherwise brought to an end in accordance with Article 5.3. Do I have any nominations for the leader of the council? Councillor Gibson. Thank you, Chairman. I would be delighted to nominate Councillor Matthews. Is there a seconder? Councillor Oliver. Thank you, Mr Chairman. It gives me great pleasure to second Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any further nominations? In that case, I'd like to go... Sorry, Councillor Hill. If you'd like to speak now. Sorry. Thank you very much, Chairman. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak now. Obviously, I didn't really want to speak after the new leader makes his speech. So, I'd just like to speak on behalf as the outgoing leader. First of all, to congratulate Sean on his leadership now. I can't congratulate... Congratulations to both of you. I wish you very well. I think we all wish you very well for your term of office. I think it is a great honour to be leader of this council. Something which I'm sure Councillor Matthews will take very, very seriously. It is also a great responsibility. Because not only are you here to lead 69 other councillors who have all been elected here. You are now responsible directly and indirectly probably for 10,000 workers who deliver services on our behalf. And, of course, you are responsible now, as we all are, but you are our sort of focus of head, if you like, for all those services which the county council provides, which are, as you're probably all probably aware if you weren't before, are large and very serious. And many of the services we provide every day out there for a quarter of a million residents and all the visitors are of massive importance and actually literally a matter of life and death. So we wish you well and hopefully that we will support you when necessary and give advice, but if it's wanted, but also try and be a critical friend. We would argue from this side, from the previous administration, we are handing the council over in good shape, very good shape compared to many of our contemporaries and obviously, as you're probably all aware, these are very difficult times in terms of hostile government to rural areas and also funding challenges which are almost impossible to deliver under the current set-up. So, thank you for taking on the role. I wish you well for the future and congratulations. Thank you. I'd like to ask Councillor Dilks to say something. May I congratulate Councillor Matthews on his election as leader. In electing a new leader today, I believe it would be remiss of the council not to recognise the huge contribution to this council by Councillor Martin Hill, the leader for the past 20 or so years. You may think it's a bit unusual coming from the past leader of the opposition, but I've got to say I put respect and dignity ahead of politics. And, if I may say so, the contribution by his long-standing deputy, Tricia Bradwell, who had enormous respect within this previous council. I recall Martin becoming council leader following what I can only describe today as an extremely difficult period for his group and for the council. Suffice it to say, it fell to Councillor Hill to steady the ship and that's exactly what he did. The integrity he brought to the role was a major factor in restoring credibility to Lincolnshire at a time when they'd been damage done by the actions of a previous leader. I've been on opposing sides of numerous issues with Martin, most memorably perhaps campaigning in the High Court to stop fundamental changes in library provision which had been led by Martin. I've got to say my library runs better than it ever did now, so that happened. But I'm glad we had the campaign and it made people in my village understand that unless they use their library, they'd lose it. So, but it's okay, I've got to say, Lindsay and Martin, I'm not wearing my save my Deepings Library T-shirt this morning, not even under my shirt. But there we are. Excuse me, Chairman, my computer's playing up. It's these new computers, getting used to them, eh? Yeah, you all realise what I'm talking about. I do apologise, Chairman. Give me one second. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Then there was my long-running campaign to end the traditional county council scholarships to Stanford Endowed Schools, which I long argued were outdated and unfair. Martin once generously said in this chamber that I'd single-handedly managed to destroy the council's flagship education policy. I'm not sure about that, but we had our differences is what I'm trying to say. But I had respect and I've always had respect for Martin's integrity that he brought to the role. And I look forward to the contributions in the coming period that I know Martin will do in holding the new administration to account. Thank you, colleagues. Thank you. Thank you. In my dyslexic, upside-down and multivariate world, I'm not quite sure that we've actually had the election for the leader yet, but that will come. But before we do that, as we're going through, I'd like to ask Councillor Lee to speak. Thank you, Chair. This is the bit where you realise that I haven't actually prepared anything in advance. But generally, I want to congratulate you on your victory. You've got a democratic mandate and I've said to you on that basis, we will work with you. We'll call you to account and we'll call you out where we think you're wrong, but you have a mandate and I respect that, absolutely respect that. I also want to, as Phil did, I want to thank Councillor Martin Hill. I think his integrity is absolutely 100%. He always did what he felt was right. I probably disagreed with him vehemently about 98% of the time, but I respect that he did what he thought was right. Anybody saying that he was careless with finances, I sat there one day to one of my colleagues and said, he just couldn't say that about him because he's just not careless with finance. He was absolutely on it. And Trish as well. I'm going to so miss Trish Bradwell. I hope someone can pass that on to her. She was just outstanding. I don't say that about many conservatives. So, as I say, congratulations to you and thank you to Martin and thank you to Trish. Thank you. Thank you. I think we're now at the point where we're now to formalise this part of the meeting. So, I'd like to ask, just to remind you, that we've had Councillor Matthews nominated for the leader of the council by Councillor Gibson and Councillor Oliver. Can I ask all those in favour? Okay. And those against? Any abstentions? Thank you. So, the result is those four, 39, and the abstentions 21. So, I'd like to congratulate Councillor Matthews on his election as leader of the council and would like to ask him if he'd like to say a few words. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I'm not sure what's happening there. I seem to have lost two. I sure... I should be finding who that is. You want names. Yeah, I want names. I voted, so it's definitely not me. She'll look and check it over later. Thank you, Councillor Hill and Councillor Dilks and Councillor Lee for your congratulations, even though it was a little bit premature. I take on board exactly what you say. I know Martin has worked extremely hard and Patricia I still regard as a friend. Once upon a time I was working with Trish and I still consider her to be a great friend. I know she worked extraordinarily hard. But I'll stick to the speech now because otherwise I'll be waffling all morning and we don't need that after the last hour or so. So good morning and firstly, may I congratulate Councillor Bunney on taking his place as the chairman of the council. I hope you have a fantastic year and I hope that you savour and enjoy every moment of it. And I'm sure, like me, this year will fly by. I'm sure it will. I'd also thank Councillor Strange, who's unfortunately left straight away. But I would like to thank the way that he handed over the baton with grace and goodwill. It was very kind of him to do that. And he made a point a couple of times yesterday of making sure that he wasn't going to be political and he wouldn't have minded. It would have been fine. I'd also like to congratulate my friend Mike Beecham on becoming the vice chairman, whilst at the same time being mayor of Horncastle, which is a great privilege on his behalf. APPLAUSE Take every moment in. Learn quickly. Next year, you'll be sitting there presiding over us on this council. You have a very sharp learning curve, which I'm sure you will relish. And many congratulations to every single one of us. We've been elected by the voters of our divisions to represent them, to listen and to help them. I believe there is no greater duty and honour than that. On behalf of all the councillors in the chamber, thank you to the family and friends that have pounded those streets, delivered thousands of leaflets, spoke to hundreds of people, and supported us all in very many different ways. Thank you. I have a granddaughter. In fact, I've got a few kids, little ones running around. They sort of pop up every now and again. And she and they are one of the main reasons that I am standing here today. I genuinely want a better community. I want a better county. And ultimately, I want a better country for them and for everybody in Lincolnshire. And I am sure that, like her, there will be some stumbles and bumps along the way. But also like her, we will dust ourselves off, learn from our experiences, and carry on more knowledgeable and confident than before. I find it hard to believe, but it is still only three weeks since the election. But in those three weeks, every day has been fascinating, inspiring, and deeply rewarding. I can absolutely say that being the leader of this council is the privilege of my life, even with my wife up there who had a little moan at me last night about saying that. And I know that I speak for all of you when I say that we are all incredibly proud to represent this great county of Lincolnshire. The recent election results have significantly changed the local political landscape. And I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all those dedicated councillors who have represented their communities in this chamber previously. I recognise the hard work that those former councillors put into their roles, and I look forward to working with those that are here now, continuing that good work. In particular, I'd like to thank Councillor Hill, who has led this council for the last 20 years. Having done the job for less than 20 days, I am beginning to understand what sort of a commitment that required. We are not about to begin our leadership of this council by being critical of our predecessors because there has been some great work done over many years in the Lincolnshire County Council. And I would like to thank the Chief Executive, although she's on holiday, and the rest of the staff here who have helped make the transition so smooth and helped me enormously. It is hugely appreciated. So thank you. Whilst the political campaign put us in competition with one another, we now begin a new phase as councillors and Lincolnshire County Council. And I hope that that will be in collaboration with each other, as I know ultimately we all want a better Lincolnshire. Our aim must be to improve and enhance in every area, across every service, to ensure that Lincolnshire remains the place people want to raise and educate their children, thrive in their chosen careers, and be cared for through their lives and in their community. So whatever side of the political spectrum we sit on, we all ultimately want the same thing, the very best for Lincolnshire and Lincolnshire people. And while we may have disagreements on how we achieve that, we want our term in office to be characterised by positivity, enthusiasm, and collaboration. I want every one of us here to join in this incredible journey. And we are all here to do the very best for those that elected us. And I hope you feel like I do, that we must work hard to repay the trust that that has been put into us. There really are exciting times ahead. While we inherit a skilled and knowledgeable organisation, there is always room for improvement. And the public have clearly shown that they want to see change to the way this council is run to ensure that improvement is achieved. Now, selecting the executive group was a bit challenging for me because there is a wealth of experience and capabilities amongst our councillors. What you get with reform are real people with real-life experiences. And this does give us a fresh perspective that we can now bring to the leadership of the council. Our ethos is all about common-sense policies that deliver sustainability and a better life for our residents. We do have fresh new councillors that are not afraid to think outside the box. And break the mould. It's time to think differently about how things are done. And we are going to do things differently. Our first focus must be on studying the council's spend and any cuts to ways that we can begin to balance the books without reducing those vital services that our residents rely on. In recognising our challenges in this financial climate, we must also focus focus on the largest area of council spending, adult care. Demand for these services is and will continue to rise across the board in Lincolnshire, which is why we must make sure every pound is spent wisely. In children's services, Trish's portfolio, we are inheriting an outstanding service. and so we are dedicated to continuing that good work. We want to give Lincolnshire's young people the very best possible start to their lives. We all want a cleaner environment and by all means, let's work to achieve that. But let's do it sensibly. Let's do... Let's not... This does not mean spending loads of money on chasing unachievable carbon deadlines. It is about a common sense approach to improving the planet over a longer period of time that doesn't cost the earth. And I am afraid that the current government's policies would see thousands of acres of Lincolnshire's wonderful countryside covered with solar panels, wind farms and scarred by huge lines of pylons. That's not a greener environment. That is a whole-scale industrialisation of our beautiful county. It is a threat to our agriculture, national food security and it would change the very character of Lincolnshire. And I will fight these crazy causes and I will fight them at every stage. I will stand with the residents of Lincolnshire with my Wellington boots on in front of those bulldozers. We will do everything in our power to protect Lincolnshire and we will fight this ideology every step of the way. We are committed to delivering the things that we told the people that we were going to deliver. I'm sure I'll get some questions on that later. We are not about increasing taxes and the public debt simply to fund declining services. In fact, at the end of this term, I want to be able to show our residents that we have improved services we provide and in essence made the quality of their life better all whilst reducing the council's historic debt. You may think that's how ambitious it is but we have that ambition and it is no less than the Lincolnshire people deserve. Thank you. APPLAUSE Thank you, Councillor Matthews. I think we need to move on to item 11 and this is that the leads to report on executive portfolios and allegations. Councillor Matthews, would you like to report on your executive portfolio? Is it me again? It is. It's as per item 11, Chairman, but I'd like for the executive officers to stand up and join me for a second just to let everybody know. Michael, you could have said where you are. Thank you all. Thank you all for taking this on. Thank you. But as I say, it is as per item. Right. I think it's on pages 117 to 120 of the agenda. Thank you. At this stage, I'd like to ask the leader and members of the executive, do any of you wish to make a statement? No, thank you. So we'll move on to item 13, which is the proportionality and allocation of seats to committees and subcommittees. An updated version of the proportionality has been circulated with the order of proceedings at Schedule 1. Allocation of seats to committees and subcommittees can be found at Schedule 2 of the order of proceedings. Do I have a proposer? Councillor Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to propose the agenda item. Thank you. Do I have a seconder? Councillor Clegg. Thank you, Chairman. I'd be happy to second that. Thank you. Are there any speakers? In which case, I will take it to the vote. All those in favour? Any against? Any abstentions? Thank you. That is 53-4 and 12 abstentions. So the motion is carried. I'd like to move on to the appointment of Chairman and Vice-Chairman of committees and subcommittees, panels and boards. An updated version of the appointments has been circulated at Schedule 3 of the order of proceedings. Do I have a proposer? Councillor Shaw Matthews. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As per item 14 on the agenda, I move. Do I have a seconder? Thank you. Do I have a seconder? Councillor Gibson. Thank you, Chairman. I'd like to second that. Thank you. Are there any speakers? In which case, we'll move on to the vote. All those in favour? Thank you. Any against? Any abstentions? Can we just ask those abstaining to put their hands up again, please? Thank you. So that is 49 in favour, 16 abstentions, and so the appointments are carried. Item 15. This is questions to the Chairman, the Leader, Executive Councillors, and Chairman of committees and subcommittees. I'm anxious to allow a good spread of questions across the Chamber within the time allocated. I intend to allow 45 minutes for questions. I'm expecting councillors to be disciplined because of the time available. When invited to ask their question, councillors should press the button on their microphone to make it live and press it again once they have finished speaking. I'd like to now ask Councillor Richard Davis to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you, Mr Chairman. Councillor Matthews, it's quite unusual for me to be asking the question, so forgive me for enjoying this. I will echo my colleagues' congratulations to you and your team, though. You have a clear mandate and we will do our job of holding you to account for that, but that is in a constructive way. But I must, and I admire your fine words so much, I must say, I don't know whether my colleague, Councillor Hill, wrote most of your speech for you. I must take you to task on something you've said. Very clearly, during the election campaign, you and your colleagues campaigned on a very clear proposition that Lincolnshire County Council is broken. Black and white, undeniable. I think you yourself shared it, as did many of your colleagues before. Now, that is at odds with what you have just said, but more specifically, it's very much at odds with what your colleague, long-standing County Councillor, Councillor Gibson, said, and I quote, and forgive me, I will read this just for a minute, absolute clarity. A lot of our service are good to excellent and they need to stay at least that good. A point you yourself have just made. So my question to you, as an ex-police officer, as somebody who's promised to give us straight answers, none of this political waffle, you are going to hit us hard, honest, a new kind of politics. Do you agree with Nigel Farage or do you agree with Councillor Gibson? I like it. I wish you'd just give me an answer. I'd have gone, yes. Look, I spoke in my speech about how, during the election, we are pitted against one another. I do think there is a big issue with this council being in so much debt. I think we need to work on it and I think we need to reduce that debt. I do think in many ways this council is broken and we need to fix it. We've had the mandate from those adverts to do that and I intend to get on with it. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Stuart Grantham. Thank you, Mr Chairman. I just want to congratulate everyone for getting elected and their positions and my question is, one of our mandates is to get the potholes fixed. 25% of the highway network categorised as amber or red based on the DFT road conditions statistics. Could we now look at the JCB pro pothole and getting these fixed? It's reported from other councillors that already have this machine in their disposable that it will reduce 97 drop in pothole requiring visits within six months and a 50% reduction in compensation. Can I ask the leader to move swiftly and fast in getting our roads into good condition? Thank you. Councillor Matthews. Sorry, I should have indicated who he was going to ask the question of. That's fine. Chairman, maybe Councillor Davies wants to do it. He's used to it. He's used to standing up at these sorts of questions. Councillor Grantham, I appreciate the question and the way that it was given. Lincolnshire County Council has looked at this machinery and this equipment before. I haven't had sight of that report back yet. I will do so in the course of the next couple of weeks. I have been contacted by JCB who are very keen to come down and have meetings with us. I will look at it holistically. I don't take any preconceived views on the machinery. It looks great but from what I understand perhaps it doesn't work in rural areas. But I shall have an open mind in response to your question and in response to the work that we will do looking at the effectiveness and whether it is worth us getting involved with that machinery. If it works, it's going to be fantastic and I really really want to get on. I've been to five council meetings so far since being elected and every single one of them talks about the roads. Every single one of them mentions potholes. So I as much as I am very aware of flooding I am equally aware of the issue that this countryside has with potholes in the roads and we are unfortunately blighted by the fact that the Romans created a lot of our roads. Dead straight. What did they ever do for us? Dead straight roads but basically on Fenland and I know that there are roads in Tatchishall particularly that you cannot drive down. I've got a nice big smoky old Range Rover you won't be surprised to hear but I was worried about driving down this road. So there are huge big problems Gem and I intend to get a grip on it that may involve JCB but I'm going to keep an open mind at the moment. Oh and by the way they are booked in to come and meet me so it's on the Thank you. Councillor Martin Christopher to a question to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you Chair and congratulations on your seat. Councillor Matthews main votes were on issues not really within the gift of this council to honour. Would you kindly share your initial thoughts on how your group will honour the promises on issues for which we hold no control without risk of distraction from vital services such as child protection? Can I just get this right? you criticise us for talking about national policies and then you want me to talk about national policies. If you want to just quickly clarify it. No my question is that a lot of the things that you raised throughout your campaign were not actually related to control of this council so my worry is that whilst you try and honour those promises that you've made to the electorate to get the vote that will water down the provisions that we have and some of those are very important to the people of this county so really I'd just like to know how you're going to batter the promises you've made whilst also keeping control over the services that we've got. Thank you. Thank you for clarification. I was a little confused but I'm not sure what you're talking about. I campaigned locally. I campaigned for Tatchyshaw Castle and for Lincolnshire. Now there may have been an overview from the National Party but I had no input in that. I'm not that high up in the Reform Party. If they talked about immigration things like that the only effect that it has on locally is when it starts affecting that is what you're getting at and that might be an issue that we need to look at. But the reality is I'm focused and all my colleagues are focused on Lincolnshire and what we can do for Lincolnshire and that is as far as it goes as far as I'm concerned. Thank you. Thank you. Another question to Councillor Matthews. There are a number here but we will give you a break a bit later on. Councillor Phil Dilks to Councillor Matthews. Thank you Mr Chairman to Councillor Matthews again. As I know you will have seen in your first 20 days this council is served by an excellent team of dedicated hard working staff. However during the election campaign a lot was said about cutting staff ending waste as you said this morning and saving money. And noting your comments earlier in today's meeting about why you've been elected can you say what plans you and the new administration have in this respect and really what assurances can you give today to our staff who are worried about their future? Thank you. Thank you Councillor Dilks and thank you for the question and thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to the staff here. I have done so already on the first day that I was leader elect. I sat and had a meeting with lots of the staff and put this point across. We are not slashing and burning services we are not making wholesale redundancies. I hope and I've not really gone into huge details yet about where to save that I've been trying to sort out the executive and all the other jobs that I had to do but I hope that the integration or the morphing across to a more efficient council council at all. Thank you. Another question for Councillor Sean Matthews from Councillor Karen Lee. Thanks Jeff. I'm going to make you earn that salary Councillor Matthews unless you want to donate it to charity. My question and it is a genuine question this one it's meant to offer some reassurance. So during the election council and I say potentially cutting alleged waste because I don't agree with you about the level of waste. You've referred to it a number of times as well. It's caused the rhetoric in the election campaign has caused worry among both Lincolnshire County Council service users and the staff. So my question is will the leader of the council please tell me so far specifically which Lincolnshire County Council projects, contracts or work have been suspended, paused or stopped? And I appreciate you might not have the full details of this to hand so I'm happy for you to give us as much information as you can today and follow it up in an email and I'm aware I can FOI it as well but I'd rather you just told me what's been paused, cancelled or stopped so far. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Lee. Councillor Matthews? Thank you Councillor Lee. In short I will write to you but there is nothing at this very moment that is in that ballpark. Thank you. Okay, moving on, Councillor again to Councillor Sean Matthews, Councillor Lindsay Corey. Thank you Chairman. I will, if you will just indulge me for a second, take this opportunity opportunity to invite every member here to congratulate Lincolnshire Fire and Rescue who won a Global Search and Rescue Excellence Award this week and particularly congratulate our Chief Fire Officer for his excellent leadership and to the team at Waddington Training Centre for winning Training Provider of the Year following significant capital investment in the facility by the last Conservative Administration. Thank you. Thank you. So, Councillor Matthews has been in power as we've heard for three weeks, very productive three weeks apparently. So, Councillor Matthews, which of our council's services are broken and what immediate steps are you taking and why and why should our communities have any confidence in a team that ran on a campaign of condemnation and untruths rather than positivity and vision and now, as we've heard, seems void of ideas and concrete plans and why, Councillor Matthews, are you unable to give a straight answer to my colleague, Councillor? Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Matthews, sorry. Look, I'm sorry you lost the election. We want to move on. We want to move on. We want to move on. We don't want this nonsense, this party political batting of each other. We want to work in collaboration with everybody. That sort of question, quite frankly, is below you. We are looking forward. Please judge us on what happens going forward from now on. Thank you. Can I please move on? Councillor Martin Hill, OBE, to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you. Again to the leader. I mean, I think, yes, of course, I'm sure that the reform team would like to move on from some of the promises and statements they made. And can I just add another one, which, and I'm really interested in what the leader has to say about this. During that campaign, and certainly my opponent, hi, Mike, good to see you here, spread out material which basically said, criticised the chief executive, named the chief executive, which I think was very unfortunate, and basically said she was overpaid. In the light of what you have learned in the last three weeks and all the stuff you've got to do, do you stand by that? Comment? Councillor Matthews. Look, Reform UK are full of normal people. I find the fact that these, across the country, I'm not being specific here, but the chief executive of the councils are on nearly a quarter of a million quid a year. I find fantastic. I find amazing. I've never earned anything like that. I will say on this, I think, and I've mentioned this before, but I think the staff are fantastic. Debbie Barnes is doing an amazing job. She's really helping me, and I have a huge amount of time for her, and a great, I already consider her a friend. I find the whole thing of earning that sort of money absolutely baffling. Your average person doesn't earn anything like that, and it's not for me to try and change that. It's all part of a structure that we are in, but the reality is £225,000 a year is a shockingly large amount of money. It's more than the Prime Minister gets. The Prime Minister, who, whichever party is at the time, works huge amounts of hours, makes massive amounts of decisions, constantly under the limelight, constantly getting battered left, right, and centre, regardless of which Prime Minister it is, and they earn less money than the chief executive of these local councils. So, as an ordinary person that's been out-earned an ordinary amount of money, I do find it staggering. Thank you. Can we move on now to Councillor Bailey Robinson with a question to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you, Chairman, and congratulations on your election, as many other members have pointed out. Councillor Reuben Robinson and I were elected on great mandates from our residents for us to stop the proposed nuclear waste facility in my division after years of concerns being ignored by the previous administration, with local polling showing on excess of 85% of people against the plan and causing lots of stress to my constituents, as I found out through my campaign. I thank Councillor Sean Matthews for his swift action to review the agreement. Can you assure my constituents that their concerns will be the determining factor in a decision and put the concerns of Saltfleet and the Coats and Mablethorpe first? Thank you, Councillor Robinson, for the question. It's certainly one that's filled my post bag more than any other. I can... Everybody that stood in the Louth and Horncastle constituencies, which is nine divisions within East Lindsay, fought on a no nuclear waste site mandate. I said a number of times if, and I look back now and think to myself, good Lord, that's actually happened, but if I said if I stood here as the leader of the county council, I would withdraw from, I would withdraw the council from that agreement on day one. I did start that process on day one. But there is a process to be had, and I'm not about to prejudge that process. There is a meeting next week, and a decision will be made the week after. What I can tell you, we are absolutely right. We did stand to withdraw from the agreement. Thank you. Thank you. A change of person to answer goes now to Councillor Michael Chain, Councillor Natasha Chapman. And congratulations on your appointment to your new role. Disabled parking is an important issue for many residents across our county. In just my first week since being elected, I was contacted about it by three different people. Will the portfolio holder for highways agree to meet with me to discuss this with a view to looking at ways to support the independence? It would be a great pleasure to make me see to discuss that, and as a disabled badge holder myself, I very much support that. Thank you. A quick respite. We now move on to Councillor Marianne Overton, MBE, with a question to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you very much, and we are making you work hard today. Why not? You did say about having very little or no input into the reform party policy, yet will you not be required to carry it out? So if we're looking for efficiencies, for example, and you did mention about staff, have you looked at the efficiencies that have been made already and made considerations as to whether those have been useful and whether they're right? It is something that we have every year, where are the efficiency savings? So I'd be really interested if there are some that are genuine efficiency savings. If we don't pay staff to do nothing, and I'm sure we don't pay staff to sit and do nothing, then surely it must be that there's going to be a reduction of services if you reduce staff. How can you square the circle? So thank you for your speech, which I thought was really good. I am interested as to how you're going to link what we hope is not instructions from the central party with what your central point in what you rightly said is that you're elected to represent people in Lincolnshire to do the best for people in Lincolnshire. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Everton, and thank you for the question and the way that you presented it. Look, all parties that we – you're an independent, so it's a little bit different from you, but all parties have an overarching set of principles, if you like, and guidelines to the party members. But I'll take you back to my earlier point that I am focused in on Lincolnshire. I am working for the good of Lincolnshire. There will be things that we will look into, and we might find savings. We might not. It's going to take a little while, and I don't want to spoil my thunder by starting to throw about millions of pounds that we've saved already. But there could be. So, it's early days. I have literally been in the job – hang on, where am I? Oh, about an hour. So, please bear with us. Please judge us on what comes. And I want – genuinely want to reach out to the people with the experience in this room and sit down with you and find out where and how we can make Lincolnshire County Council better. Thank you. Thank you. Now, a question to Councillor Steve Clegg from Councillor Kevin Clark. Councillor Clegg, you'll be aware that there's an announcement of the closure of Ashley Court in Lincoln, which is the home for 15 disabled residents. Several of these residents have lived in the Ashley Court for over 30 years. I would like to ask you, Councillor, if you would do everything you can to keep these residents in their home, and if you will visit Ashley Court with me to meet residents and staff. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Clegg. Thank you, Councillor Clark. Your question comes as no surprise. As I noted, you've been quoted in a local paper only the other day. But I'm very pleased that you have raised this question regarding Ashley Court. I want to assure you and all residents that despite being newly appointed as portfolio holder for adult care, that I'm fully aware of the situation at Ashley Court and, indeed, of the unique and vital role it plays as a specialist facility for people with disabilities. This council fully recognises how much the care provided there is valued by residents and, indeed, by their families, and I want to address any perception to the contrary by outlining the proactive steps we are taking. First, I acknowledge the significant stress and uncertainty that residents and their families, and, indeed, the dedicated staff at Ashley Court, are experiencing. Many residents have called this place their home. As you've rightly said, some have lived there for as much as 30 years. And we understand that moving elsewhere would be incredibly challenging for them. Their well-being is our absolute priority. We are committed to minimising disruption. Lincolnshire County Council is working tirelessly with the current provider to find a sustainable solution that allows Ashley Court to continue operating. Our commercial team, working closely with Amplius, the owners of the scheme, has engaged with potential providers to discuss them taking over the service. These discussions are ongoing, and Amplius has also employed a consultant to explore additional providers. Furthermore, we are in conversation with the Lincolnshire Care Association to consider other innovative solutions solutions. In the same article where you were quoted, I note a quote from an offer of support from the MP for Lincoln, Hamish Faulkner, and I would very much welcome the opportunity to meet with him. And, indeed, of course, I would be very happy to meet with you and visit Ashley Court as well. Regarding my meeting with him, I would urge him to get his Labour Cabinet colleagues in Westminster to address the immense pressures facing the adult social care sector and to reconsider increases to employers' national insurance contributions. These have only made a challenging situation even more demanding. To the broader community, I want to reassure you that we are holding regular meetings with Amplius and partners, and a further update will be provided early in June at a joint meeting with residents and their families. Our goal is to ensure a smooth transition, whether that's a new provider, ideally, continuing Ashley courts' operations or carefully planned alternative arrangements. And, finally, if I may, I'd like to echo calls from experts, as noted recently in the Telegraph. We need to encourage more people to join the workforce in this vital sector. Even at this early stage in my role as portfolio holder, I recognise just how rewarding this career in social care can be, and how great the impact on people's quality of life can also be when they receive good quality care. By working together with residents, families, providers, and the government, we can ensure a sustainable future for those people requiring care in Lincolnshire. But, again, Councillor Clarke, thank you for raising this question. We're doing everything in our power to deliver the best possible outcome, and I look forward to meeting with you soon. Thank you. Thank you. Can I just remind people, we had set aside 45 minutes. We do need to move on as quickly as we can, but we don't want to miss. We've got 10 more questions, which we'd like to have asked. So, I'd like to call on Councillor Thomas Dyer to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you very much, Chairman. Since my initial election to this council in 2021, we have made significant progress to ensure that the delivery of the North Hyken Relief Road can begin later on this year. During the recent local elections, Reform UK offered limited detail on local policy, but they did express concern about the level of council debt, much of which has been incurred to fund essential capital projects. The North Hyken Relief Road is one such project. With an estimated cost of approximately £200 million, and assuming that the Labour Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, reaffirms the £110 million promised by the previous government, this council will still need to finance the remaining £90 million through prudential capital borrowing. And Councillor Matthews had a letter from me last week, and we spoke about this in person, so hopefully you do have a straight answer to this straight question. Can the leader of the council confirm whether his new administration will fully support the delivery of the North Hyken Relief Road and commit to borrowing the necessary funds to ensure that this vital infrastructure project goes ahead as planned? Thank you, Chairman. Straight answer. Yes, this really does help the whole of Lincolnshire. It is vital. It will help bring money in. It will boost the economy. It will do so much more than just building another road. So, yes. Thank you. Councillor Sue Woolley, a question for Councillor Sean Matthews. Just going to say, don't sit down, leader. Let's jump back up again. Councillor Matthews, will you ensure that the council and its leadership comply with all national legislation, in particular the Equalities Act of 2010 and the Procurement Act of 2023, which came in in February? I mean, it could be another yes, if you like. I'll sit back down again. Just to go into a little bit more detail. More generally, people say that we are legally bound to do things. And that might be true. But I just want to push back gently on some of those things that people say that we are legally bound to do, and make sure that we are doing what is legally correct. If it's just rumour and gossip that we are legally bound to do something, and actually the level is much lower, or it might be higher, then that's where I want to be. So, yes, is the answer to your substantive question. Thank you very much. This time a question for Councillor Danny Brooks from Councillor Ray Condell. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Councillor Cordell, for your question. Yes, I can, because I totally disagree with solar panels, solar farms, food for the nation, not putting solar panels on it. There's plenty of places where solar panels could go, so I'm not saying they're a bad thing, but I don't think prime agricultural land is a place for them. Thank you. Thank you very much. Again, a question for Councillor Danny Brooks, this time from Councillor Ashley Baxter. If I haven't, then please reallocate as you might feel fit. Linkshire County Council is a landowner in its own right, with property, offices, schools, farms, and other greenfield sites. Will you please make two commitments? Firstly, to defend the Council's own greenfield sites against unwanted development, and secondly, to work with South Stephen District Council and other community stakeholders to try and restore... Thank you, Councillor Baxter. I think that negates two portfolios, Councillor Kelly's as well as my own. Regarding our greenfield sites, I certainly will be doing all I can to protect the County Council's greenfield. Anything that affects the environment in Lincolnshire has got to be bad for Lincolnshire. Regardless of whether it's good for London, that doesn't mean it's good for Lincolnshire. So, in that case, yes, I will be fighting tooth and nail. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Kelly. Mr Chairman, in regards to property, we will, as natural course, we will review residents of the County. Thank you, Mr Chairman. Thank you. A question for Councillor Michael Chain from Councillor Neil Murray. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman, and congratulations on being elected for the next year. I hope you enjoy it. Can the Executive Member for Highways meet me here in the West End area of Lincoln to look at problems we've got with speeding, parking issues, and other highways matters? It's over 20 years since these issues were last addressed in a comprehensive way by the County Council. And residents were kind enough to re-enact me to advocate on their behalf for solutions to those. Councillor Chain. Thank you, indeed, Councillor Murray. I'm not entirely sure I got the question there. Am I right in assuming that it's parking that you want to review? If you could just quickly clarify, Mr Money. Just to clarify, there's a whole range of issues, speeding, lack of parking, footpath issues, and it's the whole of the Carlholm area. This area, as you've probably noticed, is late Victorian, Edwardian, so we've got very narrow streets, and it's really quite problematic. So I'd like you to have a look for yourself with me. The short answer is yes, I'd very much be happy to meet with Councillor Murray and review that. I realise I'm remiss in the first instance, Councillor Bulley. I didn't congratulate you. Please accept my apologies. Thank you. If we could now move... I think we've given Councillor Matthews a bit of a rest, so we'll now ask Councillor Charlotte Vernon to put her question to Councillor Matthews. Thank you, Chairman, and congratulations on your appointment. Councillor Matthews, congratulations to you and your... Forgive me, I'll write to you on that one. I don't want to say anything in the Chamber that may be incorrect on what we were planning to do with that brief yet, and I'll write to you with a reply. Thank you. Next question to Councillor Matthews comes from Councillor Rob Kendrick. Thank you, Chairman. My question's somewhat in similar vein to Councillor Overton's question, and it's somewhat left-field, you might say. I've heard rumours circulating that decisions taken by reform-led councils, such as Lincolnshire, will have to be submitted and agreed by the Reform Party nationally before being enacted. I think this has probably come about because of the announcement by the Chairman of Reform nationally that what flags councils could fly, and various reform-led councils then followed suit as it did care to comment. Thank you. Being elected as leader-elect last week, I had the pleasure of having Zia Yusev buy me dinner last Friday. At no stage did he try to influence what I was planning to do or anything that I intend to do with this council. So there isn't any pressure coming down from a reform on that regard. In fact, I pointed out to RMP from Boston Skegness that I have considerably more abilities to make decisions and to do things than he does, which didn't actually go down very long. Thank you. The next question is from Councillor Paul Martin to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you, Chair. The NHS, which includes healthy lifestyles and physical activity. So like many residents who enjoy a walk and a ride on a bike around this beautiful county, I was very... Thank you, Councillor, for the question. Councillor Bailey-Robinson attended the opening, I believe. I wanted to go. Unfortunately, the last couple of weeks have meant I haven't been able to get out very much. I will try, and this is an open invitation for everybody. Please let me know when an event's taking place. Whichever party you are, whatever's going on, wherever it is, I will do my best to come along if you want me there. I would be great to be getting out and about. I'd much rather do that. On your point about not getting out and walking enough, the last couple of weeks has lent me to being sitting down quite a lot. So I look for that part. More generally, though, I was at a council meeting yesterday in Coningsby, and off the top of my head, I can't remember the number of the path, but the residents there were up in arms about the council spending, I think it was £80,000 on a footpath, putting tarmac down, putting wooden planks along the side on a footpath type path that just needed a few thousand pounds worth spending on it. That is a perfect example of where I think we may improve things. The locals are very, very upset with there being what effectively is now a cycle path that was once a footpath, and they accept that we're not going to put it back, but they want us to spend more money putting cycle signs up so that people don't go speeding down it, when once upon a time it was a gravel path. So, there are things to improve, but I completely agree with you. I want to get people out walking. I would like to do a few more miles myself and continue to lose the weight that I am. So, I'm completely on side, and as Bailey attended last week, I think he had a very positive report of the new King Charles football. Thank you. I'd like to now ask Councillor Ian Carrington to answer his question to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you very much, Chairman, and it's a day for congratulations, so I will put this question to the leader. Earlier this year, the now abolished Flood and Water Management Scrutiny Committee produced a cross-party collaborative Storms Impact Report, and that set out measures necessary to keep Lincolnshire safer from flooding in the future. Would the leader, or indeed the portfolio holder, commit to ensuring that these recommendations are implemented in full to better protect local people, businesses, and farms from flooding in the future? Thank you, Chairman. The short answer is I'll have a look at them. I can't see why I wouldn't. Like I said earlier on in the debate, we are 100% behind the commitment to deal with flooding. Thank you. Thank you. And then the last question, we've done well to keep to time, Councillor Chris Reeve to Councillor Sean Matthews. Thank you, Mr Chairman. A quick point, a quick answer for you. I've had some people question about the flag policy. It was hinted at that the instructions from that have come from head office. Do we have a remit going forward as to what flags will potentially be flown on any county? Thank you, Councillor Reeve. I'm pleased to say that the policy is already in place, that Lincolnshire County Council will only fly the union flag or the county flag, except, which I will have to check, because he'll have to fly his royal standard, I assume. That's the three. But that's the policy at the moment. I see absolutely no reason to change that. It certainly won't be from this administration. So, I believe the policy from the council is the union flag and the county flag. Thank you. If that is the end of the session, shall we now move on to item 16 on your agenda, the appointments to outside bodies. The appointments to outside bodies is set out in schedule 4 to the order of proceedings. Do I have a proposer? Just when I thought I was going to sit down for a minute. As per item 16, I beg to move. Thank you. And do I have a seconder? Thank you, Chair. I will second that. Are there any speakers? Councillor Dilks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I note on Appendix 4, there is a vacancy for the Anglian Northern Regional Flood Defence Committee. Could I nominate my colleague, Councillor Baxter, who has a lot of experience in these matters? Thank you. I'm sure that will be picked up by the leader. Okay, so is that an affirmative? Yes, Chair. It is. Thank you. So are there any other speakers? In that case, we will move to the vote. All those in favour? All those in favour? Thank you. Any against? Any abstentions? That's 49.4. None against. 13 abstentions. So therefore, the appointments with the inclusion of Councillor Baxter will be taken forward. That takes us to the last item on the agenda today, item 17. And this is a motion by the independent group. And before we move on, I'd just like to say that this is a motion on the main point of debate, as I understand it, is around the working group. Not to go over the old ground and the merits of local government reform models. These were discussed at a councillor meeting in March. So have I got a proposal for the meeting? Councillor Dilks. Thank you. Hopefully I won't keep you long, Chairman, from your lunch. And hopefully the motion is self-explanatory. And I thank Councillor Matthews for his suggested amendments to my draft, which I circulated to group members, group leaders earlier this week, and which I had no hesitation in accepting those amendments. Just to get on with it, basically, and get it supported. Look, we all know that the local government reorganisation programme that the government embarked on a few months ago represents the most radical changes since this county council was established more than 50 years ago in 1974. My experience, personal experience, over a quarter of a century in representing my community as a local councillor councillor has demonstrated beyond doubt that establishing such a cross-party working group that I'm suggesting to consider issues as they arise over the coming months would not, of course, prevent the executive or full council from making whatever decision they wish to on any proposals. But it may help the executive and the council reach more robust and well-informed decisions. With that, I move my motion. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Dix. Do we have a seconder? Councillor Baxter. Thank you, Chair. I could talk for hours on this issue and I have done now for fear of messing it up. I'm grateful... I'm grateful to the administration for the comments we've made and the support we've offered that we can all support the establishment of the group. Thank you. Thank you very much. Do I have any speakers? Councillor Hill. Just very briefly, Chairman. In support, I think we will... I will be... I think colleagues will be supporting. I suppose the only question is Councillor Gibson, who seems to have got away with not doing much today. Obviously, when the council put forward its proposals to government before the election, we were promised a reply actually before the end of April. Is he able to advise, have we had a reply yet from the government and is he at liberty to share what that might be? Thank you. If you would like to answer the question? Well, I was going to speak... I was going to speak anyway, Chair. Oh, right. Okay. I will answer the question. I've had an easy time because you've not asked me the question, so I do thank you for that. Thank you for the motion. Absolutely. I agree with you. We want to have scrutiny on this. This is going to be the most important thing that this is going to affect all of us in Lincolnshire and have an effect on us in districts as well, but we have to remember, we're talking about it from the county council. I remember that statement many times from the previous group. So, yes, welcome the scrutiny, welcome the comments, and we'll work with everybody in that manner to achieve what's best for the whole of Lincolnshire. We are waiting for a letter. We have had a letter that said, you will get a letter soon. So, we will wait further from the government. They've said they're doing it in alphabetical order and they'll get to us. As soon as that happens, I will report back to the chamber. Thank you. Have I got any other speakers? In that case, we'll go to the vote. All those in favour? Any against? Any abstentions? So, that is 64. Two abstentions, so the motion is carried. That brings us to the end of the meeting. Can I remind members that after the meeting, to collect any post from the pigeonholes which should be in the members' room? Thank you. Thank you.